When the character smokes, but the actor clearly doesn't

Funny how that perception has changed. Nowadays, a smoking character is up to no good.

Bette's so alluring there, OP.

Luv huh.

Even in the stills from the movie Carrie looks awkward.

R1, I hope you're not too surprised to hear that that was one of Jack Valenti's mandates when he ran the MPAA. You're entirely correct: under the MPAA rules, only villains or otherwise unsavory characters could smoke. (And if you didn't follow the rules, your movie would get slapped with an R rating, which is a dealbreaker for families with kids.) This was particularly absurd for period films – anything pre-1980. Valenti's long gone & the MPAA was renamed the MPA five years ago, but many of their silly rules are still there. (PG-13 movies are only allowed a single "fuck" uttered, and it can't be in any sexual context.)

While network television is regulated by the FCC, cable TV is not – which is how we ended up with a "Mad Men" featuring realistic amounts of smoking (and three-martini lunches). It's also how AMC shows – primarily this one & "Breaking Bad" – allowed pretty much any cuss words that didn't include "fuck" or "cunt." But then Ryan Murphy had his O.J. miniseries, and Marcia Cross's first word of dialogue was, "Motherfucker." And we've had tons of fucks ever since!

Anyway, Carrie doesn't smoke because almost no actors smoke cigarettes, period, nowadays. (Well, not counting weed.) Even lesser-known actors routinely get the "Hollywood glow-up": either veneers or heavily bleached teeth, Botox injected in non-obvious ways (unlike the horrific Nicole Kidman's Frozen Forehead days, now dermatologists know specific muscles to inject that'll still leave you with the ability to move your forehead). But yeah, it's always obvious, though I'm not clear – if only because I've never smoked – if they're literally not smoking or are simply grossed out by the fake clove cigarettes used for TV / film / theater.

Me thinks you overstate your case. What’s your source?

All we know us that teen smoking would be taken into account for ratings.

I’d love to see where this bad/nasty smoker rule was set out.

Hm, sounds like one could stand to make some money as a smoking choreographer.

Not the Paul Mescal Lover, but Paul smoked like a natural in "Normal People" and I wasn't surprised later to see candids of him smoking on the street.

Smoking is sexy with the right actor.

I watched the first episode of Monsieur Spade— it’s set in the mid 60s—and every character smokes even the nun.

R8 could you have picked a more unflattering photo of him?

I don’t think so…

Slightly off-topic, but what exactly prompted the allowance of “fuck” to be used in Cable TV series? While indeed Sarah Paulson does say “motherfucker” - the first time I recall hearing it said on cable tv - earlier in the OJ miniseries pilot, John Travolta said “fuck,” which I believe was the first time I ever remember hearing that word said on Cable TV? Did Ryan Murphy and FX strike some sort of deal with the FCC to suddenly allow that word? In the first few seasons of AHS they say everything but “fuck” and “cunt” more or less but once the floodgates were opened with the OJ miniseries around Season 6 or 7, it was used constantly. I’d be curious to know the story behind this if anyone has any insights or articles that discuss this.

The FCC does not regulate cable or streaming services.

Jane Fonda smoked in a number of films in her long career... I don't think she looked particularly comfortable handling the cigarette or the matches to light up. From memory, there was a scene in Agnes of God she had with Anne Bancroft where they smoked... as a smoker, I remember watching it and thinking, "yea Jane, you really don't have this smoking thing figured out."

For r10.

Do they give them props that contain no nicotine then?

I've never smoked a cigarette in my life and have no desire to, even if I were an actor.

About 17%- 14% or so of adults in the US smoke tobacco. If you are looking for real smokers to cast your pool of actual smokers is not going to be large.

At one time not that long ago in people years approx 50% of adults in the US were daily smokers. And then society hammered the shit out of them with taxes restrictions hate and laws. And it worked.

I believe Bette lit up on her last Carson show appearance.

[quote]Valenti's long gone & the MPAA was renamed the MPA five years ago

Why did the Motion Picture Association of America drop the America from its name?

Un-American liberals.

Someone on The Holdovers thread noted that Da'Vine Joy Randolph was very unconvincing as a smoker.

Jon Hamm is a chain smoker. I was in the audience with him at The Vineyard Theater in NYC once and he kept running outside to light up even though it was 15 degrees out with no coat!

I just did a re-watch of Flashdance and I noticed they had Jennifer Beal's character lighting up. She barely inhaled so it was rather obvious the actress was not a smoker. And it seemed odd to me they'd have her character smoke as she was trying to become a ballet dancer.

R13, I saw 9 to 5 in a theater when the film first came out. The scene where Jane and the girls are getting high and Jane takes a toke of the joint - Oh my, she barely inhaled and the audience went nuts. They couldn't believe the character (or the actress) didn't know how to properly smoke a joint. Lily on the other hand...

R1 😂 so very true.

Da'vine Joy Randolph doesn't inhale in The Holdovers and she's supposed to be a chain smoker. Not only that but for a chain smoker she doesn't even know how to hold a cigarette correctly, and I say this as a former smoker who perfected the art of using a cigarette as a prop. On this alone I think she shouldn't win the Oscar.

R15 Yes, they use herbal cigarettes.

R13 Jane Fonda was a smoker from a young age through her workouts. She spoke about it many times and she said she hated having to chain smoke on Agnes of God because she had quit. She lived in France for God's sake!

Jane can smoke but her character Judy Bernly would never.