Hot Marine Daniel Penny returns to court for dismissal hearing in NYC subway chokehold death

Penny started off a hero but when Neely was subdued and controlled, it was time to let up. Certainly when Neely stopped moving, it was time for concern for Neely's life. Penny chocked Neely to death.

I let juries make these type of decisions, as flawed as that system is, not sure what is better.

Daniel Penny’s hot body and natural masculinity automatically means that he’s in innocent and deserves a monthly stipend

[quote] I let juries make these type of decisions, as flawed as that system is, not sure what is better.

That system is supposed to have gatekeepers who prevent people like Penny who are clearly innocent from being subjected to a trial. Those gatekeepers are not supposed to charge people strictly for political reasons like this.

Please tell us how it is clear to you that Penny is innocent.

He choked a man to death. You do not walk away from something like that.

[quote] Penny chocked Neely to death.

Or even choked him to death.

I, like Penny, would choke a man to death in self-defense or to protect others if necessary.

Sure you would, miss.

[quote] I, like Penny, would choke a man

But would you chock him?

We all know if the choker was a fat black woman, the DL would be baying for her blood.

We are all responsible for our own safety and the safety of our loved ones. No one is coming to help…not the police and not Good Samaritans, though Penny was a rare exception.

I’m resigned to being killed. But I will kill my attacker.

If enough murderous criminals are killed by their victims, then society will change. Carry weapons, keep aware at all times, and be ready to defend yourself at any moment.

You sound fun!

I also am a skilled top r12

"Hot". 😂

What makes curly hot is the fact that he is white and subdued and killed an unarmed black.

This act is a fetish for certain population. If you have seen the film GET OUT, there is a post line about this kink. Ironically the actor who plays the kinky brother in GET OUT resembles curly.

Cease your race baiting r15….Dan Penny is hot because he’s the epitome of a masculine muscular warrior protector. Any man of an any race who had those same qualities would be judged hot, at least by me.

And the race of the threatening man / chokee is irrelevant. Any person, be in man or woman, of any race, who acts like that would deserve to be neutralized.

It is a limp impotent eunuch just like you. Subduing and killing an unarmed black makes him moist just like you.

I am not saying this victim was innocent, I am saying that he was unarmed.

George Floyd also wasn't innocent, he was a convict but he was unarmed and merely accused of passing a counterfeit 20 dollar bill.

Instead of issuing a ticket and following up with the parole board, the responding officer chose to act out his sexual fantasy in full view of the public.

Hot? Really?

R17 has issues.

[quote] Hot? Really?

Seriously. Rat faced dude with fusilli pasta hair. Not hot, not in any way

Some Nazi eldergay has masturbated to the theme to The Greatest American Hero

r21 lolololol

He KILLED.

It wasn’t necessary.

That at least requires a trial.

The best way to judge really stressful dangerous even deadly situations like this is by reading about them and then commenting on them while you drink a hot beverage in the comfort of home or office . These people who do so usually have uncanny insight into things that happened that they never saw..

R23 Why were the two men of color who were holding the chokee down on the ground while Penny subdued him not charged?

It’s all about race now, when this incident had nothing to with race.

Act crazy and threatening, expect to be neutralized. Applies if a crazy threatening white guy was neutralized by a masculinity muscular black marine. Justice is served.

“Neutralized” = murdered. Words matter asshole r25. If you support murder, then have the balls to fucking say it.

Defending yourself and others is not murder r26

You need to calm down.

This is completely different than George Floyd, who was not threatening anyone.

Penny acted in self defensive, both of himself and everyone in that subway car. Penny is a hero. Chauvin is a murderer. There’s a big difference between the two.

[quote]That system is supposed to have gatekeepers who prevent people like Penny who are clearly innocent from being subjected to a trial.

The system is also supposed to prevent insane people like Neely from wandering the streets and terrorizing commuters on the subway.

The discourse around this (as expected) is highly racialized when it shouldn't be—everything you read about it highlights the fact that "white man" killed "black man" as though race is at the root of the matter. Even the Wikipedia page does this. This was not a hate crime. Penny may have went too far, but he didn't choke Neely to death for being black. People need to wake the fuck up.

Killing is what people do. Murder is what a jury or judge decides some one is guilty of not us on the DL.

The guy asked to die.

Is he Lindsey Jacobellis' little brother?

The Felicity hair is a bad idea.

She looks like Julia Garner playing Ruth in Ozark.

[quote]Penny started off a hero but when Neely was subdued and controlled, it was time to let up. Certainly when Neely stopped moving, it was time for concern for Neely's life. Penny chocked Neely to death.

I have similar feelings. Has Penny stated why he didn't let up at least a little bit even after Neely was obviously subdued?

I love how the ghouls cheering for the murder of a mentally ill man have never and will never set foot on the New York City subway.

R36

When you have been in a fight like this and had to choke someone out did you know exactly when they stopped resisting and were no longer a threat to you?

I ask because while I have never been in such a situation like this I would guess it’s not always easy to tell. Especially when the adrenaline and fear and excitement is off the charts. Penny was not a trained professional.

[quote] Has Penny stated why he didn't let up at least a little bit even after Neely was obviously subdued?

It’s not hard to understand at all why someone would need to continue keeping a threat subdued after the initial immobilization. Letting go would be like throwing away your umbrella in a rainstorm because you are not getting wet. They remain a threat until they are physically restrained by someone or something else, or dead.

Fuck off R39 you uneducated bloodthirsty animal.

Nobody is cheering for the murder of a mentally ill man r37

We are discussing the sundual of a THREATENING mentally ill man

His mental illness has nothing to do with fate. You want to mumble to yourself quietly? Fine. You are not hurting anyone.

But a man who threatens other people, either mentally well or mentally ill, will be neutralized by three men, one of whom was white and two of whom were of color.

[QUOTE] They remain a threat until they are physically restrained by someone or something else

What about the other guys who stepped in to help, R39? It still wasn’t cool for Penny to ease up after he saw there were now multiple men who could help restrain Neely? Or did the good samaritan need to wait to feel rigor mortis in Neely’s body before it was safe to stop choking him?

Hey—here’s an idea. Why not pick 12 neutral people, tell them what happened, and let them decide whether it was justified?

Unfortunately it’s really us as a society that killed Neely. He was seriously mentally ill, and people are on edge in a captive situation like a subway. The fact that this loon had to patrol the subways to raise money shows that we really don’t give a fuck about the mentally ill.

If the black woman on the train said that Penny was right in what he did, then I am fine with what he did. Black people know each other better than mosts and we know a crazy Ninja when we see one. We are scared of crazy Ninjas too. And hearing about this kids background and upbringing, I am fine with him defending the train the way he did.

[quote] Hey—here’s an idea. Why not pick 12 neutral people, tell them what happened, and let them decide whether it was justified?

Hey—you mean like what’s going to happen? The judge rejected the motion to dismiss.

Yeah. Just like that.

[quote]It’s not hard to understand at all why someone would need to continue keeping a threat subdued after the initial immobilization. Letting go would be like throwing away your umbrella in a rainstorm because you are not getting wet. They remain a threat until they are physically restrained by someone or something else, or dead.

What I'm saying is, there must have been a point before Neely choked to death when all of the fight went out of him and he was basically limp. That's the point where Penny might have felt safe letting up on the chokehold at least a little bit -- and then if Neely started to revive and fight again, Penny could have gone right back to the choke hold. Do you disagree?

So far my favorite part of this thread is the posts from GI Jane stating what she WILL do when she is faced with the same situation.

As if she wouldn't trip over her pill bottles on the way to the toilet.

You folks understand that he is going to get his cracker ass sued off, right? That's not going to be cheap (either attorney's fees or potential damages), and he will probably be broke for the rest of his life regardless of how the criminal trial shakes out. And he's not going to get donations forever.

[quote]and then if Neely started to revive and fight again, Penny could have gone right back to the choke hold. Do you disagree?

R48 I heard that that happened several times - he would release and Penny would keep fighting.

[quote]If the black woman on the train said that Penny was right in what he did, then I am fine with what he did. Black people know each other better than mosts and we know a crazy Ninja when we see one.

Black women will never say anything negative about a black man, especially in front of white people.

If Neely was white nobody would even give two shits about this story.

R21 is the king of datalounge, 👑 .

He doesn’t have deep pockets r50 so if the family really went after someone it would be various city entities. Also contributory negligence would come into play.

Filled with issues, my kink doesn't include subduing and killing a black.

That family that never did jack shit for Neely while he was in the throes of mental illness and terrorizing the streets…now suddenly wants a big payout. No, go fuck yourselves.

Dude was unarmed. But "the fuck your feelings crowd" are all about their feelings when they feel "threatened".

They feel good, when the "threat" is "naturalized", this is how they get off.

Dude was choked to death, no weapons found on his body and the cops who responded to the scene let the prep go free.

Is this correct procedure in any incident involving deadly force, justified or not?

Probably not, but it feels GOOD!

And now the taxpayers of the New York State have to pay millions out because cops let a man who lynched a guy go free.

Penny and the two men of color who helped hold down Neely did not have weapons either r58.

Anyone who acts crazy and threatening brings it upon themselves when people defend themselves. No one has time to thread the needle of “is this crazy person who’s in a train car with me serious or not?” Subdue and let god sort it out.

If I acted crazy and threatening, I would expect to choked out. Hopefully by a man as sexy as Daniel Penny.

Eunuch. Limp magat fetish.

R58

“Probably not”

I love legal opinions that just straight out fucking tell people what the answer is.

Murderer needs to be in jail. Nobody is safe with a vigilante psycho on the streets.

I've seen this guy Neely at least once on the subway panhandling for money. Like most of these people he was maybe a bit annoying but not dangerous. He apparently was acting more irrational during the day of this incident, but I doubt he was an actual threat to anybody. If you are putting another person in a choke-hold you better damn well know what you're doing.

You call that hot? This must be the new low standard for DL.

[quote]And now the taxpayers of the New York State have to pay millions out because cops let a man who lynched a guy go free.

The taxpayers saved a ton all the years that mentally deranged criminal was out harassing and threatening the citizens of New York instead of locked up where he belonged.

He threw his coat on the ground and screamed he wanted to die.

This is the "threat" that required "neutralization".

R63 Penny knew what he was doing, he's a fucking Marine. The first thing you learn about a chokehold is how it can kill when held for too long. He held that man down until he was sure he was dead.

Hot? No.

[quote] Penny acted in self defensive, both of himself and everyone in that subway car. Penny is a hero.

Heroes don't kill, they capture and subdue. Villains kill.

R37.. It's a sexual thing, always has been for them.

Black Lives Matter, if Whitey did it.

Yes r64…he is hot

If found guilty I hope he goes away for 25 years.

I have a brother his mentally ill and frequently homeless and likely will be killed during some sort of confrontation. My mom actually took out an insurance policy on him figuring he'd be killed sooner or later. I don't really care about him and I barely know where he is although it's not hard to know for sure since he's required to be a registered sex offender. I did try a little bit after our mom died to get him help but it was near impossible because as far as the last concerned he can manage his own affairs even though he won't stay medicated and as a result he's violent. Also he got it in his head that I was just trying to control him. None of my siblings care to help him or or in contact with him either but all that being said if he dies in a way that can be blamed on anybody and we expected to make any money off of it every single one of us would be suing about it.

R74….how can I out this delicately….what is your background?

[quote]I heard that that happened several times - he would release and Penny would keep fighting.

You mean Neely would keep fighting. If that's true, then I would say Penny's case should have been dismissed, and since it wasn't, he should be completely exonerated.

What?

r55 - Yes you are right, all parties involved will be listed. PS - I am not so sure contributory negligence will apply here ("It is not a defense to any intentional tort"). Rittenhouse has been listed in a federal suit and it is obvious his legal counsel have told him things that have really scared/panicked him.

Dataloungers are dickstarved and visually impaired, r64. But what is really hot about it is the fact IT subdued and neutralized a black in public.

“he knew what he was doing he was a fucking Marine”

Oh god thanks for the laugh of the day.

R67

His legal defense fund has raised $3 million. $3 million to be held by his attorneys. How people will donate to this bit ignore unhoused, destitute and migrants makes me sick to my stomach.

We pay taxes which ate supposedly used to house the unhoused, feed and clothe the destitute and welcome migrants in to America r81

Daniel Penny was defenseless again the press and the progressive liberal politicians who were all screaming for his blood. That is why he received $3 million to defend himself. By supporting him, we support ourselves against a dangerous precedent being set.

He’s ugly as hell. Electric chair!

Murderous rage is a real boner killer :(

Daniel Penny will never see a dime of that three million. It will take at most one year for about 2 of the 3 to get billed out. Appeals will easily drain the remaining one. People will get bored with him and the cash firehose will get turned off. Of course, you can never go wrong betting on how stupid the US population is, so who knows.

Should do an OnlyFans.

Many of these folks have run into a medicaid spend down because of frequent ER trips. It screws up treatment.

I wonder if any agency was looking after him - with or without federal funding.

Oh, and Penny fucked up. Case closed

Why does a white guy have a Jheri curled perm?

[quote] Daniel Penny was defenseless again the press and the progressive liberal politicians who were all screaming for his blood. That is why he received $3 million to defend himself. By supporting him, we support ourselves against a dangerous precedent being set.

"Dangerous precedent"? I think Moses already brought that dangerous precedent down from the mountaintop -- "Thou shalt not kill."

Oh, absolutely, R89. And I'm sure you'd feel exactly the same if YOU were in that subway car and that pathetic, mentally ill maniac started raving and harassing you and others who were just minding their business.

Neither raving nor harassing are punishable by death these days

The killing was not intentional, it was a by-product of someone trying to subdue a raving lunatic. And if you honestly think you would not have been happy that the raving lunatic was subdued if you were a passenger on that train, even if it tragically resulted in his death, you are lying to yourself.

I have family and friends who have mental illnesses.

If we get to kill mentally ill people for having episodes in public, then I’m definitely scared.

Anything I’ve seen or Penny is sociopath behavior. Watch his interviews he has all the red flags of one.

Is he autistic too r93?

It’s gotta be like midnight in New York City right now. Didn’t they decide his case yet? Why aren’t you discussing it?

He should be found innocent, but if found guilty, I will volunteer to suck his cock

[quote]If we get to kill mentally ill people for having episodes in public, then I’m definitely scared.

Of course, the main issue here is that these people should not be on the streets in the first place. But since they are allowed to be on the streets rather than being institutionalized, thereby allowing them to terrorize innocent people on the subway, it's only natural that some of them are going to be killed when they go off in public.

Those are some seriously tantalizing areolas, r72....

The clean-shaven images of his upper lip explain why he used to wear that seedy moustache.

I think Penny is guilty of manslaughter, at least. AND, I want his cock and load deep in my old man ass, churning the load I just took from Oscar Pistorius, another hot killer.

R95, Please get a watch, clock, or just stare at your phone. It’s 10:53pm in New York right now. Your post timed in 44 minutes ago. So that would make it around 10:09pm. 10:09pm is not “like midnight”. Ugh…

[quote] Daniel Penny’s hot body and natural masculinity automatically means that he’s in innocent and deserves a monthly stipend

r3 How shallow and stupid.

This is why they hate us.

[quote] Oh, absolutely, [R89]. And I'm sure you'd feel exactly the same if YOU were in that subway car and that pathetic, mentally ill maniac started raving and harassing you and others who were just minding their business.

Not sure why you're convinced this man needed to be killed but your energy is dark and ugly. Most rational people believe that something short of death could have ended the threat. I guess we'll learn at trial what actually happened.

He's also creepy looking, And what idiot perms his hair for his special day anymore?

I know right r98

He has the areolas of a Greek warrior statue

He has to be photographed from just the right angle.

The right image was at a bad time for him r106

Several more shirtless pics of Mr Penny

Looks at those arms in the roadside pictures…mmmm

I’m going to have to deduct points for those hideous curls. I don’t want to, but it’s his own fault for parading around looking like Barbra Streisand in “A Star Is Born”.

Other than that, he’s very doable.

Imagine them around your throat, squeezing tightly...your life slipping away...hot

The smell of Dan Penny’s pits as he wrapped his arm around my neck from behind:..

💦💦💦

Danny has one of those Trump mouths....small, round and no lips.

R38 There was a point where the Black guys, who were not holding him down as was posted earlier in this thread, kept lifting the homeless man's arm to see if he was responsive.-- a couple of times actually--and he eventually stopped responding because he couldn't breathe. Unless Penny is blind, I'm not sure how he didn't see that. Also, there was the constant confirmation that he was down. You would think that a FUCKING marine, would know better, right?

R113

“You would think a FUCKING marine (FUCKING in caps but not the M in marine) would know better, right?”

Words that have never been spoken by a Marine Officer or senior non com or any Navy 8404 since Tuns tavern.

But he was an 0311 so he was the real deal.

S/F

R113 I TRULY don't care that I didn't capitalize "marine" (oops, I did it again). Unless you're my high school English teacher, I'm not sure why you would either besides being a persnickety cunt.

Besides that, what the actual FUCK are you babbling about?

Goddamn you R114

R115

FUCK it’s so cool when alleged adults use CAPS on the Internet to show how serious they are.

I suspect our Marine will be just fine. Y'all worry bout yourselves.

The desperate murderous queens in this thread can't see past their own boners for Mr. G.I. Troll. He's like the ugly dollar tree version of Christopher Atkins. I hope he gets the death penalty or at least 50 years plus in the slammer. A gang rape by a group of well hung Black prisoners would be poetic justice.

Now who’s fantasizing ^

I’ve read a lot about this case. Of course, I wasn’t there. But was Neely physically threatening passengers? Was he approaching them in a threatening way? Or just, as is so common in NYC (unfortunately), ranting and raving.

There are tons of mentally ill people in our subway system. I get how unsettling it can be to witness their behavior or be near them. I get scared myself. But the truth is a very tiny percentage of them will engage in violence against others.

But the question I really wanted to ask is this: If people in Neely’s car felt uncomfortable, why didn’t they do what most New Yorkers do and move to the next car? Was killing Neely the only option?

According to the Clit Eastwoods on this thread, yes

R121

I was not on the train to actually see. But quotes from those on the train included words like “insanely threatening” to describe Neely and his actions.

passengers were hiding from Neely until Daniel stepped in.

Hiding? Where? There's nowhere to hide on a fucking subway train you dumb fuck.

You would have to ask them , you really nice smart person . But I am going to take a wild guess and say it has something to do with getting as far away from an insanely threatening man as you can.

Hide may not mean totally disappear from sight in this case .

R89 Believes in one of those sky fairies.

I don't believe anyone on dl was in that train car so honestly you have no right to say if what he did was wrong or right. Only the witnesses in that car know what happened and can pass judgement. And pass it on to a jury. How do you know if he should or shouldn't have been killed? Our journalistic community is a joke simply looking for the most sensationalistic divisive angle of any story so it's ridiculous to believe their version of events. They weren't there either. And now his family who should have taken care of him is looking for a lottery win.

And yes our taxes are for housing and food so I wonder about the mental stability of the poster who said the 3 million should go to housing the homeless. The problem is our taxes are stolen by the billions if not trillions by both the republicans and democratic politicians.

No one should life in fear in their daily life

If some insane person is threatening you, use force to defend yourself.

The days when crazy people get a free pass is over. Force is the only thing these people understand . If the crazy person survives, maybe he will think twice about threatening other people in the future.

That’s why I’m coming for your guns, R127.

The days of your rights trampling mine are over.

An extremely mentally ill person is not going think like a rational person R127.

Reading about the actions of Daniel while listening to the AG talking about the totally cowardly and gutless actions of the very well armed police at uvalde.

Kind of like total and complete opposite

Then Daniel Penny did the right thing r129

[quote] The smell of Dan Penny’s pits as he wrapped his arm around my neck from behind:..

[quote] 💦💦💦

R111, your odds seem pretty bleak but I know nothing is beyond our Lord Jesus Christ. So I'll pray that Dan Penny is allowed the opportunity to kill you before he goes to prison.

As an armchair judge and jury, I think Penny is more obviously guilty of manslaughter than Chauvin was.

In America, you can kill someone just for stepping on your property. In most of the civilized world, you have to be in actual fear of your life to kill in self-defense. So, I can see how there is a cultural divide in opinions here.

Extreme exaggeration ^

[quote]Not sure why you're convinced this man needed to be killed but your energy is dark and ugly.

He didn't "need to be killed." The fact that he died was the very unfortunate but not surprising result of his raving like a maniac and threatening people in an enclosed space from which they had no means of immediate escape, which caused someone to step in and physically subdue him.

I have not viewed the full video of the incident, but someone above said that Neely visibly took at least one breath after Penny released the chokehold Can anyone confirm if this is true? Because if it is, then the charges against Penny should absolutely be dropped, because as far as I know, a person can't die of asphyxiation AFTER being released from a chokehold and beginning to breathe again.

GTFOH r136. Truly. Civilized people reject your willingness to co-sign fucking murder, ok? *Obviously* the victim died as a direct result of a chokehold. Maybe his lungs had a spasm but oxygen had been depleted for too long, and his gasp was a reflex? You think the government is overreaching on this? You’re *adorable*. 🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄

[quote] Civilized people

Please, Rachel Dolezal wannabe.

Sit your ass down.

Dan Penny acted to defend other people who were than he. Two black men helped him pin down the crazy dangerous man. Thru should all get a medal for acts of selflessness and bravery

ESL R138 ? Booze? Lousy education?

What was his excuse again? Someone was weird?

I ate the wrong 10 mg. cannabis gummy

I thought wax eating 5 mg Sativa , instead I ate a 10 mg indica.

My sentiment still stands.

Hot Murderer

I live in a big city with plenty of weird mentally ill people. No one has ever felt the need to kill them to protect anyone

Yet ^

[quote]No one has ever felt the need to kill them to protect anyone

And neither did Penny. Do you have any other irrelevant comments to make?

Even if I felt that I was in the right or defending myself I would be utterly traumatized if even accidentally killed someone. He seems completely unfettered.

Being strong mentally should be considered a negative trait? Is there any limit for the people who want to make Penny somehow seem guilty of something?

Maybe Penny accidentally killed a worthless raving lunatic homeless NYC black guy. Penny is a public hero. Never mind the three large men sitting on the worthless dangerous black dude (who has no name) so he could do no harm.

Perfectly stated r148

Bravo

Tony Geary is hot?

Isn't Penny some hippy liberal surfer from LI from a poor family who joined the Marines like every other poor kid. And after that, didn't he travel to South America to build roads for villagers? He's hardly a MAGAT.

And you don't need to be armed to be dangerous. People keep saying "Neely wasn't armed." That really only matters when the police are using lethal force against someone. There have been people attacked on the subway with their head slammed into the wall until they are knocked unconscious. There have been people who've been pushed, hit their head and died.

Anyone railing against Penny has never been in one of these situations before. I have been and it is really scary. I have never been in a situation where the person is wandering up and down the aisle violently threatening to kill people. I can only imagine. And R52 there was a black woman, a straphanger, who when interviewed said Penny did the right thing.

Can't some of you see that Penny's heroism started off well enough but then turned wrong. 3 big guys were sitting on him. They only had to make it to the next station. Why the need to CHOKE HIM TO DEATH?

R146

Shocking you were never the type of sensitive boy to even try to become a Marine. When the time comes for any killing needed to be done to protect you others will be doing it.

You can relax and stay in the basement.

I work with US military people, AF, Navy, Army. The AF are the most intelligent. Marines are not independent thinkers, they are seriously weird people.

The USAF a very technical service does get a lot of bright kids who want to do technical things and don’t want to get their hands dirty directly fighting others.

But no service is more trained for combat leadership under pressure like the USMC. During the worst of time non coms act like seasoned officers and junior e3 s act like seasoned officers.

No one trains their people to lead and lead better with those from the lower ranks during combat than the Marines. Leadership under pressure and under fire.

No disrespect to the US Army.

“I work with…” lol lol lol

R154

Cut the military ball-licking

Imagine you're getting choked out and the last thing you see is those gross sweaty ramen curls

Did Jordan Neely, a mentally disturbed man, physically attack another person? No.

Did Jordan Neely have a weapon? No.

While "Hot Marine" Daniel Penny may have been right to block him from physically harming others, he had no right to put Jordan Neely in a chokehold until he died.

Daniel Penny killed Jordan Penny. It was criminally negligent homicide.

I just donated to Daniel Penny’s defense fund after reading r158

Frightening to think that deluded people like r158 might sit on Daniel Penny’s jury

Isn't it murder, rather than manslaughter? After all, choking someone for six minutes shows planning and intent. No one thinks a person is going to walk away after being choked for that length of time, so Penny clearly intended to kill Neely.

R160, I think you have a very confused notion of the difference between murder and manslaughter.

R161 Murder means intending to kill someone, manslaughter means accidentally killing someone.

I think choking someone falls under the former, whereas punching someone who then hits their head and dies would fall under the latter.

R162

Not a criminal lawyer or law student I bet.

The entire situation would have gotten ZERO news attention If Daniel Penny’s skin color was brown

R158 verbal abuse is an attack, the threat of violence IS an attack. If you are standing, screaming at me that you have a gun and you are going to blow my head off and threatening to do so, I don't have to wait until you produce the gun and point it at my head to defend myself. The words themselves are the attack, the imminent threat. And that is what Neely was doing - just to correct your first line.

Verbal abuse and threats can be considered legally an assault. Battery is what the deceased mentally ill man was trying to do.

If penny had not stepped in regardless of his race this would just be another crazy person attacks others story on mass transportation and no one would have paid any intention.

Did Neely misgender someone r165?

Because that would be, literally, violence.

R166 So why does Claudine Gay still have a 900k job at Harvard?

I’m not sure why anyone is surprised that this case would go to trial, given the level of conflicting details surrounding the incident. These have been heavily covered in this thread: how long Neely was in a chokehold, whether he appeared to be breathing after he was released, what it means that other passengers were “hiding” from him (were they physically moving away for fear of violence, or simply avoiding eye contact with the ranting madman), etc.

Penny and his Greek god nipples are being charged with second-degree manslaughter (recklessly causing a death), which seems appropriate to the circumstances and a matter for a jury trial. The jury will be made up of New Yorkers, which the majority of people chiming in on the “injustice” of allowing Penny to go to trial are not.

No one likes sharing train cars with people who are out of their minds, but neither is it appealing to imagine that vigilante justice can be delivered without limits in such situations, with no need for an investigation or trial when death results. We can’t just take somebody’s word that they meant well when they subdued the scary guy by chokeholding him to death.

Penny was not responding to a physical threat of violence against himself, which makes his situation different from those in which a person kills their attacker.

This wouldnt have happened if they brought back the loony bins

Thanks, R169, your post is probably the most sensible and thoughtful in this entire thread.

As someone who rides these subways daily, I nearly daily see a mentally ill person do some disruptive thing, to varying degrees. From passed out in the car, to stumbling by mumbling, to violently and erratically screaming. The latter is extremely disconcerting and is common. Of course, the police are never around during these episodes. Or, if the police are around, the mentally ill person has some internal mechanism that makes them aware to calm down.

I've been in cars where, as soon as the police step off and the doors close, something clicks in the head of some previous quiet vagrant and they appear ranting out of nowhere.

Daniel Penny is a hero from doing what the police are never ever around to do. I guarantee that 99% of the car was relieved Neely was subdued. That Neely was killed was an very unfortunate, inadvertent event, but when the city so brazenly fails to control deranged mentally ill maniacs like Neely, someone has to.

R121 He was ranting and raving and angry.

He threw his jacket on the floor and that’s when Penny put him in a chokehold and killed him.

So yeah he died for having a manic episode on a train.

No one else was harmed or injured but him.

R130 But Neely wasn’t armed or shooting anyone and Penny snuck up from him from behind and murdered him.

I don’t see the comparison.

It’s not like Neely had a gun or a knife and Penny unarmed him.

He was having a manic episode on the train and Penny snuck up from behind him and choked him to death.

R151 They were all saved from him yelling.

By everyone’s logic here, this woman should have been put in a chokehold to death too.

She’s doing worse than Neely was. She’s physically assaulting random people on the street.

Imagine if Daniel Penny snuck up behind this blonde white woman and strangled her to death?

He’d get the chair.

[quote] Penny snuck up from behind him and choked him to death

While two black men were also holding Neely down r175

Because everyone on the subway car judged Neely to be a threat

Don’t be crazy and threatening and live your life.

Be crazy and threatening and expect people to subdue you.

[quote]By everyone’s logic here, this woman should have been put in a chokehold to death too

I wouldn’t be opposed if someone killed her too

This woman should have been killed too according to the pro-Penny logic.

R179 she can go too

The women in r176 / r179 should have been neutralized, either by a chokehold or whatever means necessary.

Sex and race doesn’t matter.

Act crazy and theeatening expect to be subdued and, if unlucky, killed.

R181 Bullshit.

Show me all the examples of mentally ill women and white men being killed by vigilantes for having mental breakdowns in public.

That hair is tragic. Don't see the hotness OP

R151 You must be white.

A poor hippy liberal surfer who built roads in poor South American villages (which we already know is an affluent white summer camp that takes away jobs from locals who are capable of doing it) does not disqualify from him being racist.

White MAGA aren’t the only racists. To think that white liberals aren’t or can’t be racist is a white person’s mentality.

Newsflash. Whites are white, they aren’t segregated by politics, they can live in the same house, share the same dinner table, etc etc. I know cause I’m half white lol.

R172, most of us who ride the subway daily can understand your frustration with the atmosphere on the trains; I agree with you that the city is failing in its responsibility to adequately address the mental health crisis.

But none of the above justifies vigilantism. Again, I wasn’t present, but AFAIK Neely was not threatening Penny. I haven’t read any evidence of that.

More to the point of your post, you state that this killing was “inadvertent.” Is that so clear? I don’t believe it is.

Some of the reporting on this case indicates Penny had had the type of training (regarding chokeholds) to know how and when they might be fatal. The fact is you have no way of knowing whether this killing was inadvertent. None of us does. That’s why this case needs to go to trial.

Listen, many of us are as outraged as you are by conditions on the trains and in the stations. But using those conditions to justify vigilante justice is frightening to many of us, more frightening than what such tactics are meant to combat.

[quote] using those conditions to justify vigilante justice is frightening to many of us, more frightening than what such tactics are meant to combat

Many of us are fed up with being victims. If the crazies cannot control their behavior, vigilante justice is called for.

Many gay men are pussies and resigned to being victims. Keeping your head down will not save you. Fight.

He’s not an even that hot. Dumb cunt.

R176, anyone would have been justified in using a choke hold or whatever means necessary to subdue that woman. And if she happened to die from the chokehold because she kept struggling, that would have been unfortunate but not unexpected and completely understandable.

I think some people responding here are losing sight of the fact that, OF COURSE, these mentally ill unfortunates should not be allowed to be on the streets -- or in the subway system -- at all. But as long as they continue to be allowed to roam free and terrorize non-mentally ill people, there are sometimes going to be deadly consequences.

R188 Why don’t we throw them in concentration camps so they won’t bother you.

And no R188, she’s a white blonde woman. No one is going to put her in a headlock chokehold and subdue her. No one is going to treat her that way.

That’s why I’m against what happened to Neely because the fact that he’s a black and a male are two things that play a role as to why he was murdered.

[quote]Why don’t we throw them in concentration camps so they won’t bother you.

R189, you must be quite an idiot to think that the only option besides allowing dangerous, mentally ill people to roam the streets and the subway systems is to "throw them in concentration camps." Tragically, severe mental illness is no longer grounds for institutionalization. And, lucky for you, incredible stupidity is not grounds for it, either.

The losers getting hard for Neely have a mental illness. Can we “neutralize” them, too?

It's New York, so it's moida, not murder.

Try to kill us if you can r192

We’ll be waiting on for you

R188 why bother with a choke hold. Why don't non-mentally ill citizens carry sedating dart guns and just take down the wild beasts in the subway?

[quote]Why bother with a choke hold. Why don't non-mentally ill citizens carry sedating dart guns and just take down the wild beasts in the subway?

Your rhetorical questions are beyond idiotic, because AGAIN, there are a huge number of options between (1) allowing these dangerous, mentally ill people to walk about in public at will, with no attempt whatsoever to control them, and (2) taking them down with dart guns. Actually, I'm thinking you MUST realize this but, for some reason, you're going out of your way to be an asshole.

And I'm thinking you are a satire free zone with a thin education.

R197, if you're referring to my post calling out R195's idiocy, spare me, because there was no "satire" in that post. Bitchy sarcasm does NOT equal satire.

Satire and sarcasm are synonyms, hun. Look it up.

" we will be waiting for you with our three-inch mushroom tip, aroused. Subduing and neutralizing a black is the only way we can get off"

All I want to do is to exist in public and go about my business of life without some crazy person going off and threatening and intimidating me and others…is that so much to ask for?

If that crazy person, of any race or sex, is violating the social contract, he or she gets punished. Punishment is the only thing these people understand. A slap updjde thd mouth, a chocking, whatever. Increase the punishment until the needless offensive behavior stops.

Punishment is the root of all virtue.

Crazy people have a right to exist too you fucking Nazi

They can exist quietly and not cause a disturbance, like the sane people do r202

If not, it’s the choke hold for them

Thanks ACLU

R17, Penny was unarmed also, what's your point? Several people who were on the train reported Neely saying very threatening things about killing them. They were frightened, especially given all the insanity on the subways one often encounters lately. Just two years ago a guy got on the subway in Brooklyn and shot several people. The time of homeless people getting on a train and intimidating people is fucking over.

Penny did not set out to kill a black man, or any man, that day. Neely did set out to scare the shit out of a subway car full of law-abiding people who, unlike him, didn't fuck up their lives. He fucked around and found out.

The chokehold wasn't the problem. It was the amount of time Penny held on to it. It was excessive. Manslaughter

50% of the cunts on this thread, R206, don't give a shit about your second sentence. Oops, accident. Oh well.

R184, I am black, thank you very much. I am very familiar with white liberal guilt, racism. Penny isn't it. He's a kid from a working-class, broken home on Long Island.

And why don't we count the number of times a NYC resident is killed, brutalized or maimed by a crazy person in the streets each year. Those are the stories people are carrying with them when they see someone starting a manic episode. In NYC you know that things can go from 0-100 in a second, something that could have been prevented ended up deadly because a crazy pesron wasn't stopped. Crazy people push citizens on the tracks every single month in NYC.

I was followed by one of these crazies while I was walking and he was on a bike. There was no escape. He kept screaming how he was going to "Bash my fucking head in," if I didn't give him a cigarette. I couldn't avoid him, couldn't escape. I was scared shitless even as a NYer because there were no cops, no taxis, no stores to duck into, no subway station to go down into, no one else around. I turned around and pretended I hadn't heard him - like we were buddies, gave him what he wanted and he rode off.

The fear for your safety, for your life can be VERY real. It's fight or flight. Looking back with 20/20 vision you can dissect everything. But in the moment, you are just trying not to get hurt, or worse.

Obviously, it's ridiculous for some people to claim that a person should know ahead of time that if they hold a person a specific way in a very specific position, with a specific amount of pressure, on a person of specific age and specific health conditions then it will result in death in some specific number of minutes and seconds. If anything, it shows there may be a hole in the law that should be fixed so that a Good Samaritan like Penny would never be legally responsible to have such medical knowledge when doing this kind of good deed. The law should be amended to clearly state that a Good Samaritan can hold a person in any kind of hold to prevent the bad guy from harming others, and if it results in the death of the bad guy, the Good Samaritan is held harmless.

What color do we think his pubes are?

[quote]Why bother with a choke hold. Why don't non-mentally ill citizens carry sedating dart guns and just take down the wild beasts in the subway?

Then the citizen would be blamed for using a dart gun that mix with whatever is already in the crazy person's system and sending them into cardiac arrest. Both a chockhold and a dart gun would have to take into account someone's pre-existing condition - which is impossible to know before hand.

I have scrolled through 211 posts trying to find an image of this person being “hot”.

He’s a poor man’s version of William Katt and he wasn’t even hot.

Show me the hotness. Please.

[quote] I was scared shitless even as a NYer because there were no cops, no taxis, no stores to duck into, no subway station to go down into, no one else around

Where in NYC does this exist?

[quote]Crazy people have a right to exist too you fucking Nazi.

A right to exist, but not a right to terrorize people on the streets or in the subway system, you blasted idiot.

By the way, I just had a thought: We read about and sometimes experience countless incidents of mentally ill and/or drug addled people terrorizing others in the subway system, but that sort of thing happens FAR less frequently on buses. Obviously, the "crazy" people have their wits about them enough to know that there is no one to stop their behavior in the subways, whereas on a bus the driver can just pull over. So exactly how "crazy" ARE these people?

Quite weird how many people seem to think mentally ill people are worthy of death.

R21 summed this up in a single sentence

[quote]Quite weird how many people seem to think mentally ill people are worthy of death.

NO ONE is saying that, no matter how many times idiots like you keep repeating stupid straw-man statements like that.

Mentally ill people who terrorize folks in the subways (or wherever) should be institutionalized, rather than free to roam the streets, subway system, etc. to terrorize. Tragically, such people stopped being institutionalized decades ago, and there is now a reasonable expectation that someone -- whether a cop or a civilian -- may try to physically subdue them when they go on a rampage in public. And when that happens, there is a reasonable expectation that they may die, whether due to a chokehold that was held just a little too long or for some other reason.

DO YOU GET IT NOW??????

R215 anybody who threatens and terrorizes other people, be he sane or mentally ill, deserves a beating / choking / bear spray / etc

[...]

R213, places like that exist all over NYC, even in Manhattan… residential streets blocks from the nearest subway station. It’s not that unusual. And in the outer boroughs it’s quite common.

R219

Neely

The two black men who were Dan Penny subdue Neely by pinning Neely to ground so that Penny could neutralize the threat

No other passengers intervened on Neely’s behalf

Immediately after the incident, the media was flooded with this years old picture which said Jordan Neely was a “street artist”.

Contrast this old picture with what Neely looked like now

What color are Dan's pubes? I can't tell if he's brown on blond on top

How can anyone vote no. This man is a hero. Period. Wtf is wrong with you people. Dude saved lives and got a creep off the street, permanently!

R213, It was on 24th Street between 8th and 9th Avenue to be exact. It was a Sunday morning and I was walking to work. The nearest subway station is 24th and 8th. The distance between 8th and 9th avenue at that point is at least three city blocks long. It's a winding road through Penn South. I was about 1/3rd of the way from 9th ave. I heard him starting to yell back and 8th ave. I didn't even think it was directed towards me because there are random people yelling all over NYC. It was only as I was walking towards 8th (further away from 9th and other people) that I realized that he was yelling at me and riding a bike up behind me as I walked. That is when he said something like "You gonna get your fucking head bashed in over a cigarette? Do you want me to bash your fucking head in?"

So there I was with no subway stop, no people, no cops, no taxis, nowhere to escape on foot from a crazy shirtless dude on a bike. That's when I turned around and just pretended like, "Oh, I didn't hear you." What's up pal? But I was shaking, trembling out of fear even though I tried not to let him see it. He asked me where did I get my cigarette and could he have one. I said there are stores on every corner that sell them. He said he wasn't from around here and smiled. I gave him a cigarette and he actually handed me a dollar. I said no, I don't need that, like we were best buds now. But he looked batshit crazy in the eyes. The kind that would hit you over the head with a brick for your shoelaces.

[quote] Jordan Neely was arrested multiple times for assault, including a 67 year old grandmother on the subway. The police were called on him monthly for subway altercations and he was released over and over again. He told the police he needed help and had schizophrenia and ADHD. They released him anyways. He did not die at the hands of a marine. He died at the hands of politicians who've created a broken system that chooses to let career criminals back onto the streets, even with severe mental health issues. Today they will cry about his death, and tomorrow they will go back to enacting the policies that killed him.

How sad that he actually acknowledged he needed help and the authorities wouldnt provide it

^ I started to hear him yell back at 9TH (as I was walking from 9th to 8th Avenue C/E train stop.

Turn on your citizens watch app. All you hear constantly is "Man spotted wielding knife" "Man Swing Bat down the sidewalk" "Man spotted swinging chain" "Man spotted bashing in car windows." There are so many crazy people walking the streets. So many people killed, harmed, attacked by a crazy person in NYC.

R230

These are the things that become major election issues. And appearing soft weak or just don’t give a fuck about this is not the way to win in 2024.

I do not understand what you are saying r231

R232

That is not your fault :-)

Biden and the Dems need to step up and steal or neutralize the narrative. They just can’t let the gop run with these issues like crime in the streets or the border issue by themselves.

Even if Biden can’t do all that much.

These issues are going to be a real drag on the Dems come next election otherwise

[quote]How sad that he actually acknowledged he needed help and the authorities wouldnt provide it

It is tremendously sad. Some mentally ill people are on the streets because they won't seek help and can't be institutionalized against their will. Others want help but can't afford it and/or don't know how to get it.

R233 I get it. You only see the world through the Rep/Dem Political binary. At first your comment seemed a complete non sequitur. It still is, but I have a better understanding of the source.

Somehow the narrative is Dems like crime and stick up for criminals. It accelerated during the BLM riots, but we’re at a tipping point.

Dems and Gays don’t like crime. We don’t like crime even if it’s a minority perpetrating the crime (and yes I know minorities account for most of the violent crime per capita).

The policies of progressive liberals politicians, all of whom are Democrats, have ruined San Francisco and Portland, because they actually are coddling criminals r236

[quote]Somehow the narrative is Dems like crime and stick up for criminals. It accelerated during the BLM riots, but we’re at a tipping point. Dems and Gays don’t like crime. We don’t like crime even if it’s a minority perpetrating the crime

What is the demographic of the DL loons who are reflexively attacking Penny instead of appropriately lauding him and his courageous action to help others?

Egalitarian: an egalitarian is a person who believes in the equality of all people, and an egalitarian society gives everyone equal rights. This is a word that means something close to equality and has to do with fairness.

R236

Well it’s the Dems job to change the narrative if they want or can, But so far the Dems seem complacent or far to woke to do so.

R209 You’re exaggerating. I don’t believe anyone in this thread has been THAT specific.

What is ridiculous is that a person--especially a Marine-- is unable to determine that a threat has been successfully neutralized as they’re choking them. Especially, when people around him were saying that he was down. A RATIONAL person would’ve immediately let go of the unresponsive person for fear of killing them. Penny had bloodlust in his eyes while he was choking this man. Maybe his training kicked in but he wasn’t going to stop until it was done.

Blood lust in his eyes :-)

[quote][R209] You’re exaggerating. I don’t believe anyone in this thread has been THAT specific.

No, stupid, it's saying that Penny would have to know to that specificity to calculate exactly how long he could apply the hold before the person died, which he obviously he couldn't determine ahead of time. There are some people claiming he should have known ahead of time that the threatening person would die under that circumstance. We only know in hindsight that it would kill him. Penny wouldn't have known beforehand.

Most people know that chokeholds can quickly be fatal. For a trained Marine there is no excuse, and no way he didn't know what he was doing.

R244

So when you are in fights with raving insane loonies threatening to kill and a history of attacking others you consider the impact of your actions and consequences of your actions while you are in the middle of the fight?

If so you are either so much better trained than Daniel or you are someone who never gets in serious violent fights,

On DL, "hot" means white and not fat.

He got to kill a black with his bare hands. Mama's mussy MOIST.

R243 Well YOU and those people are assholes.

R245 Buuut there wasn't a fight with a raving lunatic. Penny snuck up behind him and put him in a chokehold.

R249

He would have been one dumb ass Marine to think that putting a raving crazy person in a choke hold is better done from the front.

All the idiots criticizing Penny should be locked in a subway car with a violent lunatic.

We’ll see how rational you are when defending your life.

That lunatic was arrested MONTHLY on the subway and then immediately released every time. It was about time someone put him down, since the justice system and the government failed completely to keep him off the streets.

Somebody’s got to protect the 67 year old grandmothers. The police and politicians are not going to do it.

And now those same politicians are persecuting Daniel Penny for votes, power and money.

Give to Daniel Penny’s defense fund because he stepped up. He got our back, and now we got his back.

Magat fap materials. Lame.

That lunatic was arrested MONTHLY on the subway and then immediately released every time. It was about time someone put him down, since the justice system and the government failed completely to keep him off the streets.

I have similar feelings. Especially since we have read that Neely had previously asked for help for his mental illness, I think the justice system and other organizations that failed to help him are more responsible for his death than Daniel Penny is.

[quote] Somebody’s got to protect the 67 year old grandmothers.

You mean great-great grandmothers, right?

He could choke my anal canal and throat with his dick.

The raving woman at R176 does not deserve a chokehold.

She deserves a point blank bullet right between the eyes, direct to the brain.

No, actually, I think it's the fault of the man who put his hands around the "lunatic's" neck and squeezed until he died. It's not "dems' or "the media" or "the narrative" or whatever straw man you right-wing jackals want to throw up.

It was your blonde marine. He's a murderer. Plain and simple.

It’s not so simple r259

Defending yourself and others is the most noble thing you can do

The lunatic’s action brought this on himself

[quote]It was your blonde marine. He's a murderer. Plain and simple.

You type as if Penny came up from behind him and choked him out while he was sitting reading the New York Times, minding his own business. The light must be so brilliant in the simple black and white world you live in - blindingly so...

Are we still arguing about the legality of killing people who yell at you?

Making threads is not “yelling at you” r262

The two men of color who pinned the lunatic to the ground while Daniel Penny performed his heroic act didn’t think so

If there were already/also two other people pinning him down (rendering him immobilized), how was Penny's action necessary, let alone heroic?

[quote]That lunatic was arrested MONTHLY on the subway and then immediately released every time.

That's a problem that should be dealt with by cops and the legal system. Not wanna-be super heroes.

The lunatic’s victims, particularly that 67 year old grandmother, don’t care who stopped him r265

While the cops and legal system were pussying out, Penny and the two men of color stopped the lunatic’s reign of terror

If the “authorities” refuse to their job, ordinary heroes will defend themselves and others

No jury will convict.

It's quite simple, R260. You want it to be not-simple because you're a monster who thinks its ok to kill poor people.

Your blonde marine fap idol is a murderer. He killed someone for being annoying. He wasn't defending anyone. He wasn't protecting anyone.

If you jackals were at least honest, it would be refreshing.

MARY ^

He should be celebrated and awarded a medal! It's unfortunate that individual died however let's be frank if we were to rub our crystal ball this mentally ill individual would spend the rest of his life being a threat to the public, a burden on law enforcement and ultimately end up in the prison system. This is another case where we need institutions for violent mentally ill offenders that do not comply with medication.

Individuals like this including drug users are the rotten core of our Urban centers that are causing decay to move outwards. That is why businesses, government agencies, and young professionals are choosing to stay out of the cities.

A similar metric applies to ^^^

[quote] let's be frank if we were to rub our crystal ball this mentally ill individual would spend the rest of his life being a...

...asshole

[quote] If the “authorities” refuse to their job, ordinary heroes will defend themselves and others

You mean like this?

[quote] Katz’s office released an image of a hand-written “Hit List” recovered by police that mentions “cops, judges, politicians, celebrities” and “banker scum.”

[quote] "We did recover multiple writings, multiple notebooks, showing that they were just very anti-government, anti-society

[quote]if we were to rub our crystal ball

That's not the only thing R270 is rubbing

Pathetic. If you really want to go there and dig around in the background of the victim,it turns out the victim's mother was killed by his stepfather. The judicial system permitted the stepfather to represent himself in court and also permitted the murderer to cross examine the victim who was a juvenile at the time his mother was murdered.

I want you to think very carefully about these circumstances.

if the victim was white, would any court allow a white juvenile to be cross examined by a murderer?

No.

Yawn

Life’s tough for all us r274

Most people who have tough lives aren’t menacing 67 year old grannies daily

Act crazy and threatening don’t be surprised when other people do something about your voluntary behavior

R274

He was not a murderer until after he was convicted in that trial.

yawn= close your mouth magat, you're letting the flies in

R276, the Victim lynched in public didn't receive a trial.

You people want America to resemble your filthy native homeland in the Balkans.

It is pathetic.

You are pathetic.

MARY ^

Мэри 👆

Not unexpectedly, r277 is racist as well as being hysterical and dumb

[quote]Are we still arguing about the legality of killing people who yell at you?

That's not what we're arguing, and you know it. But for some reason, you feel it necessary to post a straw man argument that make you seem an imbecile

[quote]If there were already/also two other people pinning him down (rendering him immobilized), how was Penny's action necessary, let alone heroic?

Are you really so incredibly stupid that you can't figure out the answer to your own idiotic question?

And what person or groups of people are going to decide when the nuisance justifies the nuisance being murdered? One arrest? Two arrests? 10?

One person being threatened? Two? A subway car full?

Who decides whether the murderer/hero/protector is a good boy, or is a vigilante?

Who decides when it's okay or when it's not or when it's a fine line.

This episode may seem simple to determine, but where does it end? Who gets to play god?

[quote]Who gets to play god?

Panicky white Republicans. Duh.

I want to bury my face in his bush!

[quote] What is the demographic of the DL loons who are reflexively attacking Penny instead of appropriately lauding him and his courageous action to help others?

We're human beings. No one should have died in that interaction. Penny was capable of subduing without killing. You don't 'accidentally' kill someone with a chokehold. The jury will sort it out.

What is the demographic of the loons who think killing someone on the subway should be lauded?

All of life is imperfect r282

In this case, Daniel Penny and the two men of color did the right thing

The next time a lunatic attacks, we shall judge them…but we will not hear about it, unless the racial composition is right for the news media

R282, no one should "play God," in your words. But the lines have to be drawn somewhere as to what's permissible and what is not, otherwise there would be complete anarchy. That's why we have laws and juries and judges to determine things such as whether, in a particular situation, somewhat was "right" or "wrong" in killing a person who had been terrorizing a subway car while subduing that person.

The jury is going to decide ala the original post r287

No jury is convicting Daniel Penny. He’s only going to trial for media publicity and to satisfy idiots like you. His innocence verdict is guaranteed. Because sensible people are fed up with crazy people and criminals roaming society. Penny will be found innocent, and he will have his pick of jobs. If he writes a book, I’ll buy it. Because he stood up. We are grateful for him. It’s a start.

Sizemeat?

R298, you really should read more carefully before you label someone an idiot, because you somehow completely misinterpreted my post. I was arguing with R282, who stupidly accused Daniel Penny of "playing God" in this horrible situation. Although this is a very complicated situation, I strongly suspect that if I were on the jury, I would vote "not guilty."

[Quote] let's be frank if we were to rub our crystal ball this mentally ill individual would spend the rest of his life being a threat to the public, a burden on law enforcement and ultimately end up in the prison system.

You could say the same for George Floyd who had monuments erected in his honor.

[quote] No jury is convicting Daniel Penny. He’s only going to trial for media publicity and to satisfy idiots like you. His innocence verdict is guaranteed. Because sensible people are fed up with crazy people and criminals roaming society. Penny will be found innocent, and he will have his pick of jobs. If he writes a book, I’ll buy it. Because he stood up. We are grateful for him. It’s a start.

R288, sensible people are sick of hateful, reactionary nihilists like you screaming for vigilantism. But if you were brutally killed I am sure someone would mourn and seek justice for you.

In 2024, everyone has someone in their family or social circle who has mental health challenges. There is no support for addressing their needs so they are left to go off into the world and end up on the streets. That doesn't mean the people who care about them want to see them killed for sport. I think Penny has reason to be nervous about a trial. He is not innocent and his odds of an acquittal are no better than 50/50.

You’re screaming for the blood of a hero simply because of his skin color r292

I see clearly what you are

I see clearly who you Penny fangurls are - fat, Republican eldergays who get off on locker room rape fantasies.

Or sniggering shit stirring trolls.

Either option is a bad look, sweetie.

Penny won't go scot-free.

R277 is the type who'd get bashed in the head with a hammer trying give a homeless man a pair of socks. I've seen their type all over NYC, more scared of appearing racist than ending up dead. They're the ones who get punched in the face because they don't want to be seen moving away from a ranting crazy person. And they are always, always White. Take a look and see if any other race really cares what other people think of them when it comes to their safety.

^ And let them get punched real good in the face one time by a crazy black man, and that's when they start holing up in their apartment, stock piling weapons and watching FOX News.

R287

Thanks for a more sensitive reading of what I was trying to say and the questions I asked. Maybe I was not clear, or was in-artful.

I also said this:

[quote]That's a problem that should be dealt with by cops and the legal system. Not wanna-be super heroes. R265

I'm not looking to argue with anyone in particular. I was asking questions. I don't think that's particularly idiotic, though others do. I don't think I have all the answers but I think there are a lot of gray areas in this situation. No one has attempted to answer the other questions, seemingly only to be bothered by the suggestion that someone was - or would be - playing god.

One other question - we are all looking at this with historical knowledge about the nuisance that was murdered. What if he or she had been a "normal" subway rider that had a psychotic break. For the first time. What if the nuisance hadn't been a repeat offender? Would the murder then have been justified?

I think we ought to consider these type of questions before we take positions that clearly define who is the hero and whose death was justified.

If it had been a white sorority girl freaking out on Adderall or a white Trumper male drunk on espresso martinis, anyone who even barely touched them would be strung up by an angry mob - a mob led by the same people celebrating the murder of this poor man.

R298, the legal system is NOT dealing with it. They are releasing very dangerous people back on to the street over and over and over again UNTIL they seriously harm or kill someone. So this is the "historical knowledge" that NYers and other people in large cities are dealing with. That is what is going through their head - that they are killers and would-be-killers walking amongst us.

Not a week goes by in NYC, if not a day, when someone isn't attacked, slashed in the face, punched in the face, beaten, pushed onto the tracks, spit on, sexually assaulted by someone in the New York City subway system. It happens all the time and people either end maimed or dead. So if I am trapped in a car with a crazy person who says he is not affraid of dying or going to jail and ranting he is going to harm someone, and I KNOW the pollice aren't going to help, what do I do? That is a question for you.

Penny didn't stand up and say, "I'm going to go kill this man." Penny, like all the rest of u, was walking around knowing your imminent death could be around the corner.

That's a fucking lie R299. Nice try though.

I've seen both the types you've mentioned knocked the fuck out in the streets of NY, and no one said anything except move away from the violence. One time this white kid was drunk, swearing on the subway. This guy sitting with his family told him that there were children around. The guy kept going. The father stood up, handed the kid to the mother and knocked the dude the fuck out. Like true NYers, everyone sat there until their next stop.

R300 - MARY!!!

It’s kill or be killed in US cities

Only a fool would deny it

Do you want to be a victim?

Or will you stand up and fight, both for yourself and others?

If Penny had followed the example of your Hero Dad and knocked this guy out and not MURDERED HIM, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

See, the point here is that Penny MURDERED the man.

Nice try in minimizing what he did tho.

Self defense, both for you and others, is not murder

[bold] SELF[/bold] defense requires that YOU, yourself, be the subject of the attack.

[Quote]If Penny had followed the example of your Hero Dad and knocked this guy out and not MURDERED HIM, we wouldn't be having this conversation.

Like it was said before, Penny did not stand up and say I am going to murder this man. The guy who knocked out could have easily fallen and hit his head on the seat and been killed. The father could have just as easily killed the man as Penny did trying to subdue a situation.

[quote] I see clearly what you are

R293, you're completely off the reservation. I am not sure you've ever seen anything clearly. Get help.

[quote] If it had been a white sorority girl freaking out on Adderall or a white Trumper male drunk on espresso martinis, anyone who even barely touched them would be strung up by an angry mob - a mob led by the same people celebrating the murder of this poor man.

Indeed, the same people who want to celebrate this guy murdering a homeless man on the subway are the ones who refer to January 6th insurrectionists as "hostages."

[quote] SELF defense requires that YOU, yourself, be the subject of the attack.

Defense of others is a separate but similar defense.

[quote] Like it was said before, Penny did not stand up and say I am going to murder this man. The guy who knocked out could have easily fallen and hit his head on the seat and been killed. The father could have just as easily killed the man as Penny did trying to subdue a situation.

In some states, second-degree murder is using lethal force with a reckless disregard for human life. Penny is only charged with manslaughter, so he has already been advantaged by the justice system.

You do not wait for an attack in the assailant is threatening you

Hesitation will result in you being maimed, raped or killed.

Once your attacker is finished with you, he will maim, rape and kill others

Preemptive defense is legal and wise

[quote]It’s kill or be killed in US cities

MARY!!!

He has an unattractive nose, and not in a BDF way.

Hot?

"It’s kill or be killed in US cities

Only a fool would deny it

Do you want to be a victim?

Or will you stand up and fight, both for yourself and others?"

What prompts someone to post this kind of bullshit?

I've spent my entire 71 years in two cities: St. Louis (crime capital of the USA) and Philly, and have never once been a victim of crime. In St. Louis, I lived a block away from a methadone clinic and walked by it daily on my way to school. WTF?

[quote] You do not wait for an attack in the assailant is threatening you.

You got that right !

Ask the 67 years old grandmother that was attacked by this subway lunatic r316. And ask the other victims this subway lunatic assaulted.

Just because you have been very lucky, doesn’t mean you get to discount the many victims of crimes

And just because you're completely paranoid doesn't give you the right to pull bullshit out of your prolapsed hole and create crime-ridden scenarios that only serve to further your racist, xenophobic ends.

Who the fuck do you think you are? Donald Trump and the Republicans?

You need to calm down r319

I’m not Donald. Trump. I’m not the Republicans.

I’m a man who feels that all law abiding citizens should walk without fear of being assaulted by a crazy person. And every law abiding citizen should have the right defend themselves and others from the crazy criminals which walk free among us.

Take some Pamprin r319 and massage a little vagisil into your bonus hole.

Whenever I have to look at a pic of this guy, I think of Soul Glo.

[quote] I’m a man who feels that all law abiding citizens should walk without fear of being assaulted by a crazy person. And every law abiding citizen should have the right defend themselves and others from the crazy criminals which walk free among us.

So you're a snowflake?! Law abiding citizens are entitled to nothing except undue interference by the government, and agencies of government. You're more likely to be killed by a mass shooter in a red state WalMart. If crazy people are your biggest adversary write your Republican congressman and demand they address America's mental health crisis.

Has he presented hole yet?

[quote] That's a problem that should be dealt with by cops and the legal system. Not wanna-be super heroes.

Except the cops are NEVER around when these outbursts happen. The legal system FAILS to keep maniacs like this off the streets. So super heroes, wanna-be and real, and gonna take up the slack.

You are a pussy r322

[quote] You are a pussy [R322]

How would you know? You've only seen one in pictures.

Sick burn r326

In case you want to keep up with the goings-on on the NYC subway system. . Even though it's the Post, this will give you of what's going through the minds of normal straphangers when they see a crazy going crazy in a car.

see I'm a normal NYC straphanger and I don't think about this shit at all

Not sure why you're so emotionally invested in convincing people that the NYC subways are hell. Maybe take that energy and try and improve your home. Wherever that is

They aren't hell R329, but they are definitely less safe. And there is no way you can tell me you don't think about it at all. If that is the case you are stupid. Most times nothing happens, but enough DOES happen that you need to be smart about the people around you. I lived in NYC for 26 years and never before did anyone enter and shoot up a car as they did in 2022. Now that that horse has left the barn, all bets are off. I HAVE been on enough trains with crazy people walking through where I needed to change trains, or some random homeless person sleeping whose shit himself. And I have seen fights on the subway, people getting knocked out. And every New Yorker has seen the sand they throw down over a blood stain left by someone who was pushed onto the tracks.

So yeah, you think about it.

[quote]I lived in NYC for 26 years and never before did anyone enter and shoot up a car

Bernie Goetz says hi

[Quote]Not sure why you're so emotionally invested in convincing people that the NYC subways are hell. Maybe take that energy and try and improve your home. Wherever that is

Interesting you mention that r331, because with the crazies on the street, that's about where we are saftey wise in NYC.

Is Harold Square still a Hobo Camp since Covid?

And what about Macy's flagship store on Herald Square? Last year I went to the 9th floor to buy luggage and saw about 10 homeless men sleeping on the couches in the furniture department.

[quote]Indeed, the same people who want to celebrate this guy murdering a homeless man on the subway are the ones who refer to January 6th insurrectionists as "hostages."

What a ridiculous statement.

That statement is 100% true R335.

Floyd Killed himself by eating his drug stash in the car

[Quote] see I'm a normal NYC straphanger

a rare breed of New Yorker

R329, check out the comments from your fellow "Normal NYC Straphanges" over the MTA's introduction of gangway subway trains - train cars that aren't separated from each other.

"They just removed the protection we had from someone unhinged pursuing you through the cars."

"As somebody who's changed subway cars to get away from many-a-creep in my day, I ain't into that..."

"Clearly not a single woman involved in the development of this idea"

"Hellll No. Whoever thought this design was a good idea has never ridden in (or had to escape from) a NYC subway car."

(^.^) will it also allow smoke and gas to spread from car to car?

[quote]That statement is 100% true [R335].

No. If you believe there are no people posting here who think Daniel Penny is a hero but ALSO think the Jan. 6 insurrectionists were criminals who should all be thrown in jail, you are a complete idiot.

[quote]Harold Square

Oh dear

Daniel Penny back in court today sporting a new flattering haircut.

His trial date was set for October.

Nothing hot about that fusilli pasta hair

. . .

He'll be fine and he won't spend a dime of his own money. A benefactor will step in to cover this hero financially. I know some of this DL crowd is not going to like what I am about to say but it is true. We are going to see an increase in people taking the law into their own hands. If our cities can't protect us out on the streets, people will protect themselves. This is a human instinct for survival. I lived in NYC for 4 years and rode the subway everywhere. I wouldn't take the subway now. People have lost their minds.

I don't like that new haircut and he's not very hot.

My verdict is therefore... GUILTY!

R345 those nipples are so suckable

[quote] A benefactor will step in to cover this hero financially

Probably Ricky Schroeder.

[quote] I lived in NYC for 4 years

MARY!!!

R346 is an easy block. Get help, you pathetic Batman wannabe.

Danny Penny is a sex god warrior

[

Quote]Daniel Penny back in court today sporting a new flattering haircut.

R343 it reminds me of coral reef

I want to suck him off so bad.

R350 I figured someone would call me out for that just as soon as I typed it. But I said fuck it. 4 years in NYC was long enough for me. I left for another big city and swore I would return to NYC. Once I left I re-softened and couldn't live there again for all the bagels in Brooklyn. Love a weekend visit though. Nothing like it.

(cont)

rereading my initial post, I sound like Corky St. Clair from "Waiting for Guffman"

[quote] Daniel Penny back in court today sporting a new flattering haircut.

I would have been less sympathetic toward him if he continued to have his hair the way it looked when saved the people on the subway.

Sweetie, he didn't *save people. He *murdered people.

Does the recent subway shooting help him in any way?!? Help illustrate how batshit crazy and deadly it is on the subway nowadays?!?

R359, I had the same thought, and I expect the answer is yes, it does help him.

Add to the above: I think Penny's case will be helped not only by the recent subway shooting but also by the fact that the fucking National Guard was called in to address violence on the subways.

Silly r358….Dan Penny was defending others against a crazy man who had threatened to harm everyone on that subway car. Hero Penny was assisted by two men of color who pinned down the crazy man’s limb while Daniel Penny neutralized the threat.

Get your facts straight

Neely never physically assaulted anyone on the subway. Penny should have eased up on his chokehold and just help pin him down along with the other 2 men.

⬆️⬆️⬆️

I mean...at some point, a rational person who's ONLY looking to subdue another person should say to themselves, "Maybe I should let him go before I KILL HIM."

R365 Agreed. I can understand initially being quite forceful when subduing a violent or mentally ill person, but you don't choke someone to death in a few seconds. There's enough time to realise the person is incapitated. Surely he went limp and stopped struggling quite a bit before he actually died - yet Penny continued to hold him in a chokehold.

I didn’t know Neely was throwing garbage at passengers. I guess that could qualify as assault. There are SO many crazy people roaming the streets in NYC, including the one who just got shot in the head with his own gun. NYers must be freaking out in the subway.

[quote] I mean...at some point, a rational person who's ONLY looking to subdue another person should say to themselves, "Maybe I should let him go before I KILL HIM."

And if the person being subdued happens to die before a rational person would suspect that they were about to die, as in this case, what then? There’s no time machine to redo it based on the after the fact knowledge.

I guess that is kind of the definition of manslaughter r368

Penny could be guilty of involuntary manslaughter.

R368 The problem is people standing around Penny were raising the guy's hand and kept falling. They were also saying--if I remember correctly--to let me go and possibly you're killing him.

I digress.

I just watched it again after a long time. The straphangers were holding his arms while Penny was choking the man and smacking on gum like a fucking hillbilly. It was only a short clip tho so I possibly misremembered some things. I can't find a longer version.

I feel like the Mama's mussy troll is the one lusting after a killer.

[Quote]Hiding? Where? There's nowhere to hide on a fucking subway train you dumb fuck.

by moving to another train car to get away if you feel threatened

It's interesting that some people stay rather than leave the car when a situation is ongoing.⬇️⬇️⬇️

[QUOTE] I didn’t know Neely was throwing garbage at passengers. I guess that could qualify as assault.

So what? Throwing garbage is a death sentence now? Why couldn’t Penny just beat his ass? If this was a case where Penny got into a slugfest with the dude and knocked him out, I’d say don’t even bother to arrest him. Don’t they teach you how to box in the Marines?

[quote] Why couldn’t Penny just beat his ass?

Better yet, why couldn’t Penny just hold him?

Oh right, he did, but unfortunately and unforeseeably, that led to the perpetrator’s death.

Hold him? What are they going to the fucking prom? Who thinks of holding some crazy person in that state? Square up, throw some punches and whoop his ass, that’s what men do. Neely would probably still be alive, and Penny wouldn’t have to fear being the love slave of some Aryan Nation daddy as payment for keeping him alive in prison.

[quote]So what? Throwing garbage is a death sentence now? Why couldn’t Penny just beat his ass?

Have you seen how many Snapple bottles are rolling around subways? I love all the posters that are posting from the full knowledge that Neely didn't have anything on him, which of course came after the fact. The nut job could have had a boxcutter in his pocket and just quickly slice someone's neck open. Or easily grab someone's head and bash it into the subway way. You never know WHAT IS ABOUT TO HAPPEN, before it happens.

R379 Right so kill them!

Neely!

The trial has started. I didn't see a thread about it. It seems to be very low key.

I was just wondering about this, wasn't sure where it stood. Thanks.

Penny is dangerous and needs to be locked up. Screw loose.

R384 is the ghost of that insufferable, unruly, harassing, dead-cunt, who got exactly what he deserved.

r385 two wrongs don't make a right. we don't need executioner vigilantes.

Daniel Perry, Datalounge B-lister, goes to court!

New York City begs to differ with you, R386. A long time, raving, menacing, threatening, lunatic. I don’t see the loss here. Stop your scolding, Carol Ann.

Daniel Penny is a hero. Full stop. Legally, he must go to court. Ethically, he did the right thing in subduing the proven-to-be highly dangerous Neely. Morally, he should not serve any time. If the system fails to keep repeat criminals off the street, a beleaguered public should not have to sit back and take it.

Choking to death a man who you have clearly subdued beyond any possible resistance is not morally or ethically acceptable.

Hey, I tried.

[Quote] You never know WHAT IS ABOUT TO HAPPEN, before it happens.

You’re just saying this because he was black and this was New York City, Matt.

If you’re driving down the street in Pittsburgh and some guy cuts you off and you open your door at the next light and start shouting at him, can be get out of his car and shoot you? After all, you never know WHAT IS ABOUT TO HAPPEN, before it happens, amirite?

Your casual dismissal of this life taking is disturbing but typical. It’s not so cut and dry as you’re insisting we believe it to be.

[quote]Your casual dismissal of this life taking is disturbing but typical. It’s not so cut and dry as you’re insisting we believe it to be.

Agreed, but it's also not so cut and dry as YOU believe it to be. I don't think any jury in the world would convict Daniel Penny for subduing a crazed, raving person who was terrorizing people on the subway, so this trial is going to come down to whether or not Penny should have realized he was continuing the chokehold long enough to actually kill the man, when he could have let up sooner and still had the man subdued.

He did society a favor. We need more hot Marines to take out the trash.