Fellow Travelers on Showtime Part 3

Link to previous thread

Hope it wins some awards. It deserves a nod.

I’m still amazed that it is being so widely accepted and praised. I thought there would be more objection to the sex scenes, but I have only seen a few. I guess people who don’t approve aren’t watching.

The wider acceptance may be in part due to Bomer's casting. He is a popular actor with broader appeal, women love him

Jonathan Bailey was a good catch on this as well. We’ve seen plenty of sex scenes from him in Bridgerton. I think he’s dragged quite a hard core audience over to FT with him. What’s to object? We get straight fucking constantly. I do kinda wish it was on a bigger streaming service, it’d get a much bigger audience. I keep recommend it to friends but none of them are particularly enthused to get a paramount+ sub.

r5 Out of four friends, I was able to convince two to order either Showtime or Paramount Plus. Of the other two, one will watch at a friend's house while on vacation, and the other will entertain himself with his usual British costume dramas. Why are so many gays Anglophiles?

I’m a gay Brit so cannot comment 😂 I’m not really a big fan of period dramas, Downton Abbey was OK. Bridgerton, ehhh. I thought JB was the best thing about it. He was in the fact the only reason I bothered to give it a watch.

It was the best series I watched in 2023.

It was the best series I watched in years.

I think the whole series would have been much better and less soapy if they'd focused on the '50s story and done one flash forward episode to the '70s, Fire Island era and left it there. Dragging the AIDS epidemic into it sort of was not at all what the series was about and a few hours of lousy age makeup and shitty wigs would have been spared.

The whole counter plot with Jelani Alladin and Noah J. Ricketts was pointless though certainly no fault of the actors.

I head some people in a movie line talking about the many gay sex scenes and their conclusion was they were a bit excessive after the first half dozen, or so. I had to agree.

I *heard some people

Christ I re-read it twice and still never catch errors.

My two favorite scenes were the naked dance and the one near the end when Hawk and Tim were outside the event and true love was exchanged. Those two were good, they gave me all the feels.

I enjoyed this series but agree it covered way too many events. It also made me depressed at times because McCarthy hunting gays, AIDS and Harvey Milk’s assassination are all painful gay tragedies. Is it any better now? Not sure.

Matt Bomer is robotic to me but he was well cast. Jonathan Bailey very good.

Can’t you little homosexuals boys talk about ANYTHING else besides this? I mean what about the movie I made with Brando that was the hit of Cannes 30 years ago? THATS more important than this faggot soap opera.

I came for the ass and man sex and I wasn’t disappointed

I'm putting this here and in part 2(since there are lot more replies that can be in part 2), Did anyone else think that Hawk lied about his HIV status? Does the book give more info?

Yes

R16 In the book, Hawk does not have HIV. Nyswaner has said he would be interested in an anthology series.. Maybe exploring other fellow travelers or expounding on Marcus and Frankie’s story. Do you think there would be interest to support that.? While I applaud Nyswaner’s efforts towards inclusivity, Frankie and Marcus’s story often pulled me out of the central story of Hawk and Tim, which was a disservice to both. I would have much rather gain more insight into Hawk and Tim’s backstory. That being said, a story principally focused on Marcus and Frankie could be interesting.

The story could be changed up and new characters presented.

I just finished binge watching it and was in tears at the end. A truly heartbreaking, beautiful moment.

Like some of the other posters here have mentioned, I thought the 1950s era, McCarthyism, Cohn, the hiding, the secrecy, the witch hunts - those were the most compelling parts of the series. I thought it got a bit heavy handed and cartoonish when Matt started wearing a silk caftan and doing coke on Fire Island. The AIDS era was okay, but you just knew how awful and sad it was going be at the end.

The whole subplot with the black couple could have been excised. It didn't really propel the story, and the two actors had zero chemistry together. I wish there had been more of a focus on the lesbian who worked with Bomer's character. I thought her story and the horror of what she had to do preserve her life and career was gut wrenching.

Matt Bomer's character had two really great moments in the series:

- When he told his dying father he was sorry he didn't have the decency to knock before entering his room.

- When he shook the senator's hand, wouldn't let go, pulled him in close, and told him he had been sleeping in the same bed with his friend and holding onto him all night.

Was the implication that Bomer's son was gay and tortured and that's why he succumbed to drugs?

The last time you see the kid onscreen, he tells his dad he doesn't think he's "normal."

Bomer and Bailey are too old, but it would be great to continue this as an anthology by adapting works like “While England Sleeps” or “Two Boys at Swim” or “The Amazing Adventures of Kavalier and Clay.” There is a lot of great 20th century fiction with gay characters.

^”At Swim, Two Boys.” It’s really great.

There is an enthusiastic fan group for this series, but does it have a large enough audience to win awards?

Jonathan Bailey literally killed Stephen Sondheim.

Even the opening credits for this show was great.

I actually think its good. And to keep the history going on these topics. Only on episode 4 though. Time will tell.

Big improvement from Allison.

I never made it past Episode 4. Had a real-life conversation about this series on NYE and reaction was mixed. It is my impression, shared by some, that Bomer's character is wholly unsympathetic. What he did to the trick we first see him with, to his lesbian employee's gf, to his family and to Bailey's character was so selfish and destructive. We would normally call that behavior sociopathic. I don't know if he ever did anything to redeem all of that but someone who watched the whole thing said he never got any comeuppance.

Hawk is a very unlikeable character & if you look at it from just the decisions he makes, he’s cold & not a nice man. By ep8 though, it’s very clear how much he loved Tim. He just was too selfish & too afraid to ever choose him & instead, makes awful decisions to protect himself. He does get his comeuppance though. In multiple ways. I find it odd anyone would think he doesn’t. Not so much in his career but by the end, his whole live has unravelled & the love of his life is dead.

He loves his kids in a completely normal way. He platonically loves his wife. He romantically loves and sexually desires Tim. I don't think Tim dying of AIDS is a comeuppance. I suppose you could say Hawk experiences the loss that he was never able to commit to Tim and be reliable kind to Tim. Hawk is unsympathetic but he is a survivor and shrewd operator. Tim is doormat to have continued with Hawk after Hawk cruel sabotage of his next career hope. Lucy is a bit of a doormat but it fits the time and its conventions. I do feel sorry for her.

R32 You don't get a sense of Lucy's suffering until the end, when she tells Hawk, "Do you know what it's like to go through your entire life not feeling desired?"

Although I was pissed at her when she fired the hot contractor.

Why were there no jockstraps in any scenes?

It’s been really interesting reading the various comments provoked by the show, some predictably falling into the Tim/good, Hawk/bad variety. However, would love to know how other more nuanced comments break down by generations and gender. I came of age during the seventies and experienced the AIDS epidemic and felt really moved by those episodes but could completely identify with the persecution and trauma of living through the McCarthy era. At times, I experienced all of the main characters as unsympathetic at various times. Lucy knew Hawk was gay, just as she knew Lenny was, loved when Lenny called her out on it and said she was lying to herself. She wanted Hawk and she made a compromise she couldn’t live with ultimately. She was willing to stay married to Hawk as long as he had meaningless sex with strangers who he kept far from their life together. She indulged her sexual desires with affairs of her own, which I suspect Jackson was aware. What she couldn’t live with in the end, was that Hawk had always been in love with Tim and even when they were on the verge of gaining everything they wanted, here was Hawk risking everything: sleeping next to Tim in an AIDS ward every night, risking his health, her health, being publicly outed. After Hawk chose her and baby Jackson and got Tim banished from government service, she may have thought it was over. But then we find that Hawk has been secretly keeping tabs on Tim all this time and tries to rescue him from prison. Lucy explodes in rage, not only because of the risks it places them in but the depths of Hawk’s love for Tim, despite his not knowing of Tim’s declaration of love in the letter she burned. Don’t get me wrong, I loved Lucy’s journey and Alison Williams did a phenomenal job portraying her, but she was no victim but a full participant in this drama. That’s what makes a great story for me.

R35 Good observations. The series was about the choices people make in their lives and the unintended consequences. Lucy made the choice to enter a passionless marriage because she wanted security and a family, not having the foresight to see how it would impact her life in the long term. Tim chose to follow his heart, which always brought him back to Hawk, despite his best efforts to shut Hawk out. The most tragic figure in the whole series to me, though, was Hawk. He consistently chose self-preservation and selfishness, and ultimately ended up alone. It wasn't until he lost Tim that he was able to acknowledge that Tim was the love of his life.

When I labeled Lucy a doormat I meant she was so knowingly. Lucy was a pretty bourgeois girl with plenty of options in her life but she wanted "perfect" Hawk. Very bourgeois desires - perfect husband perfect home perfect family. Yeah she kind of knew he was gay early in the marriage and definitely knew and acted on her confirmed knowledge by mid marriage. I felt their story strongly because I was a lot like Hawk until mid college, and there was even a few years I was openly "bi" - but not really in my heart - and I was engaged to a rich beautiful girl like Lucy. She wanted me because I was such a perfect specimen. The sex was good, and we shared a lot of interests, but really it was like we were girlfriends. I was totally using her in a way Hawk used Lucy early on. I could function as a bisexual and like my female lovers but I decided I was basically gay, and society and my ego was rewarding me to cosplay as bisexual. My life would have been different had we married, materially. She was worth over 10 million and her family in the hundreds of millions. When I finally broke it off, she found a straight equivalent of myself on campus within two weeks, but filthy rich like she was, and "a huge cock" she enjoyed teasing me. We stayed close for years. The difference between being gay in the 50s and gay in the 80s. My ex gf never got married though and she's not a lesbian. I think she really WANTED to marry a bisexual. Odd.

I think I understood that Lucy brought the wealth into that couple because Hawk had been disinherited. There is no way they had that lifestyle on one state department salary. If I'm not mistaken, they were living in Lucy's family property.

I'm referring to the TV series, not the novel.

[quote] She wanted me because I was such a perfect specimen.

Mmm-hmm...

Well it's too bad you were not a narcissistic sociopath like Bomer's character, r37. You'd have been rich...instead of posting on Datalounge from the breakroom at Costco.

So was the whole story of McCarthy fucking the young soldier just made up for the series, or did it have any basis in fact?

R35 I agree the show was about the choices people made and the unintended consequences. However, it’s difficult to divorce those choices from the oppressive and dangerous environment in which the characters found themselves. You can’t look at Lucy without understanding the repressive culture women had to navigate. I believe she loved Hawk, she also wanted the lifestyle of a diplomat and political power player like her father, but that came with stifling your own ambitions and needs. Her mother cautioned her to accept that a man might stray but as long as he comes home to you at night, it should be all that matters.

As for Tim, he could never fully reconcile his idealism with the reality of the times he lived until the very end. Sometimes his idealism was so excessive as to border on foolish or downright dangerous to himself and others, notably Hawk. His blindness to the corruption and demagoguery of McCarthy, right up until he literally had his hand on his throat, is an example of the fatal flaw of a tragic hero. I didn’t see him so much as a victim of Hawk, but more a victim of his own inner conflicts.

Nice ten minute interview with four leads of Fellow Travelers

R39 The story about McCarthy and the soldier was not made up. It was based on a real historical incident.

It took Tim's death sentence for Hawk to become honest about who he was.

It’s a moving, poignant series. Now, where would one find all the sex scenes spliced together?

R41: The interview isn't much of an interview and all three of the chirpy morning show people seem insufferable.

R35, 36 & 40: Spot-on. They did a good job of putting the characters in their context and fleshing them out. This is the first time I've actually liked Allison Williams--she comes out of a statusy WASP Background, so this is probably her comfort zone for creating a character.

Tim is sometimes more cringeworthy to me, as acted, than Hawk. His failure to reconcile idealism with the real world sometimes gets over the top. What seems ridiculous enough in your 20s usually passes by your 30s. Often the people who emerge later in this mode had spent years in some sort of cloistered world (e.g., clergy, evangelical Christians). Bomer has played gay and straight and usually seems more superficial than subtle, but he seems to be able to bring together different parts of Hawk. I had more empathy for his character in the show than in the book. Opening up the store beyond the book is a mixed bag, but some episodes like #5 are difficult to watch because they seem real.

The Black couple are here partly to show the difficulty of living your truth to the extent possible in their time (the drag queen) or reconciling ideals with reality (the reporter). They're in "the real world" in ways that someone protected by wealth & privilege or lost in their ideas (and able to do it as white guy in the 50s onward) can't be. They do a good job of not reducing the drag queen to camp. It would be more difficult to get these points across with white, middle class characters and tv doesn't do well with working class people.

Wanted to view but won't. It hits too close to home.

R45 Were the black couple in the book?

Do they have to be?

Brian Williams is a bootstrapping Irish Catholic college dropout. Allison is NOT from a "statusy WASP Background" but is herself moving up in status as an Ivy graduate.

R48 No. I'm asking because their storyline seemed to derail the main storyline throughout the show. It didn't help that neither actor was very good, I guess, and it was clear they had no chemistry, unlike Hawk and Skippy.

R45 I agree, Tim’s reactions are sometimes over the top, but I came to appreciate what Bailey was playing at. Tim has these grand ideas and fantasies about the world and his place in it, that clashes with his reality. He tries to find comfort in his faith, a cause or person to lose himself to. It strikes me as adolescent, where love is all consuming, sometimes blind and desperate. I think Bailey does a great job with infusing Tim early on with that kind of adolescent energy especially the physicality of it. As Tim matures, this affectation diminishes too with Bailey’s terrific performance.

I disagree somewhat about Bomer. I’ve always found him to be an expressive actor with terrific range. I hope he submitted episode 7 for awards consideration. It really was a masterful performance. Hawk, I think was always the more challenging character to play, so much of his conflict is internal and not heart on his sleeve like Tim. Bomer masterfully cycles through coked out daze, desperate longing, rage, and into devastating grief. He should have won an Emmy for The Normal Heart. Many critics believed he didn’t because of Hollywood’s homophobia. He probably won’t win this time around, probably for similar reasons. It’s progress that Fellow Travelers even got made and with a predominantly gay cast and creatives. But even now, critics are hinting that Bomer and Bailey aren't simply terrific actors, but they’re not acting because it’s real between them. Straight actors playing gay are awarded for “being exceptional, excellent even brave.” Gay actors playing gay characters are just being themselves, is the homophobic take still being made.

[quote] [R48] No. I'm asking because their storyline seemed to derail the main storyline throughout the show. It didn't help that neither actor was very good, I guess, and it was clear they had no chemistry, unlike Hawk and Skippy.

I disagree. It had the potential to add "color" to the story but was not well-written. In particular, I was very interested in knowing how Bomer's character became acquainted with Jelani Alladin's character in 1950s D.C. Specifically since WASPy Bomer seemed inexplicably at ease living out loud(ish) in the world of the Black gay speakeasy. More focus on their relationship would have illuminated something about Bomer as a person, and perhaps made him a less miserable figure.

I was not quite as enamored of the part of the storyline that included the romance between Alladin and the drag queen. It felt forced, a man like Alladin's character never would have remained in that relationship.

R52 I think it would have been interesting as well to have the backstory of Hawk and Marcus. We both know they were returning veterans of the war, both involved in the political scene; Hawk as a player and Marcus as a reporter of it. Both were part of a small and heavily closeted gay community in DC, where secrecy was a highly guarded commodity and they both had a predilection for sex without emotional connection. They had quite a lot in common save for their race. Marginalized communities have always found each other, despite social standing, etc. Oppression can make for strange bedfellows.

Williams is a Welsh name, so not all that Irish and he mostly grew-up in well-off parts of northern NJ.

Digging in, R54? He specifically identifies as IRISH CATHOLIC multiple times in this interview. For crissakes! NOT a "statusy WASP Background". Very handsome family though, like the Bidens. ALSO IRISH CATHOLIC bootstrappers.

I'm sure I'll take the word of someone who was fired for making up shit.

Reading the comments here is sometimes funny----drag queens and trans people have been around forever and there always have been men who somehow found them attractive sexually.

One of the things that happened particularly after WWII was that some Black and White folks with actually things in common figured out how to share spaces together. A friend of the family briefly taught at Vanderbilt in the late 40s, before having a long career at Northwestern. He and his wife became friends with a Black colleague at Fisk and his wife. There were lots of places they couldn't go together in 1940s Nashville, they figured out how to do it. Bayard Rustin had any number of White lovers, as well as boyfriends in the 40s and 50s. James Baldwin was part of the NY literary social scene along with Vidal, Mailer, etc. The world wasn't quite what you think it was. I'm sure we just have some garden variety racists here, but there's also clarly a poverty of imagination and history.

r57 the Marcus and his boyfriend storyline was tacked on and took focus away from the main plot. It was unnecessary.

R58, we understand that you found it unnecessary, that does not make it unnecessary. It did seem very underdeveloped. I was very interested in Marcus, and profoundly curious in the first episode when the three of them went to the speakeasy. It was the only public space where Bomer and Bailey were able to be together openly and around others. I will probably finish the series at some point but it is too bleak for me right now.

[quote]we understand that you found it unnecessary, that does not make it unnecessary.

Well SMELL YOU cunt. It was shoehorned in to fit diversity requirements and was not necessary. The story of Marcus and his boyfriend took you out of the central plot. I'd feel the same way if the two characters had been white. It was superfluous and tacked on.

[quote] I was very interested in Marcus,

So start a campaign to get Marcus his own show. This show was about Hawk and Tim.

[quote] I will probably finish the series at some point but it is too bleak for me right now.

Maybe this just isn't the right show for a delicate hothouse flower like you. Those times were horrific for gay people and the show explored that in detail. It was very accurate for the time period.

[quote] Well SMELL YOU cunt. It was shoehorned in to fit diversity requirements and was not necessary. The story of Marcus and his boyfriend took you out of the central plot. I'd feel the same way if the two characters had been white. It was superfluous and tacked on.

Bitch, no one cares what you think or feel! The characters ARE in it, forever and inextricably, so shut up. Somehow I doubt you'd feel the same way if the characters had been white, at least you couldn't have complained that the characters were "shoehorned in to fit diversity requirements." I guess like you have shoehorned yourself into Datalounge to meet the tedious moron requirements.

[quote] Maybe this just isn't the right show for a delicate hothouse flower like you. Those times were horrific for gay people and the show explored that in detail. It was very accurate for the time period.

You can give the "hothouse flower" shit a rest. It is a work of fiction, it is not a historical account of actual events or lives. It is only entertainment. If you like yours sad and morose, God bless you.

The Marcus storyline needed to be better. It was OK and provided some contrasting experiences of the times but it also felt shoehorned in and in that way, cynical box checking. DEI.

Both Matt and Jonathan will be at the Golden Gloves tomorrow.

[quote]Bitch, no one cares what you think or feel!

My opinion is widely shared by other who watched FT.

[quote]Somehow I doubt you'd feel the same way if the characters had been white,

I said I would feel the same. It's a story about Tim and Hawk, a distracting subplot was not needed and it wasted screen time.

[quote]at least you couldn't have complained that the characters were "shoehorned in to fit diversity requirements."

That is exactly why they were created, to tick off boxes. It took you out of the main story.

[quote]You can give the "hothouse flower" shit a rest. It is a work of fiction, it is not a historical account of actual events or lives. It is only entertainment.

It's a work of fiction based on a specific time in history which was very unpleasant. It is what it is. If you can't handle it that's nobody else's problem.

R65 Thanks, do you know if they are presenters?

Bailey is on the list of presenters but not Bomer.

Sorry here's the complete list of presenters, I forgot to link it.

[quote] Bailey is on the list of presenters but not Bomer.

I am nominated, bitches, and if I win I will be the most awarded gay actor in cinema history.

The cast at the Golden Globes.

The next James Bond?

No way an openly gay actor is going to be Bond. That's just the Industry.

Jonny Bailey. What a gorgeous man. He’s such a breath of fresh air, always smiling & never taking himself too seriously. I love him. No Bond for him please, he’s got better acting potential than a franchise.

Loved Matts outfit & I love that he’s keeping his hair curly but he was back in perfect PR mode last night, with his barely there press smile. Yawn. He was more fun doing FT promo with Jonny.

Rotten Tomatoes Best Miniseries 2023

Ratings = 90%

Matt Bomer nominated for SAG award. Nice to see his performance recognized.

He’s against the actor from Beef who won the GG again.

One of those things isn’t it. I’m not sure FT is ever going to beat the more mainstream rivals it’s up against. But those rivals are decent shows too. I do feel a bit like Jonny has been hard done by on awards noms for this though. I do agree Hawk is the lead character on FT. But Tim isn’t a supporting role either. He’s as pivotal to the story as Hawk. I see why they decided to split them into supporting & lead but there isn’t many awards with supporting men in a mini series category, which is a shame as I think he’s brilliant in FT!

Finished it last night. Loved it so much, but definitely viewed it as a bit of a fantasia. Like the conceit was designed for storytelling, not to be viewed through a nonfiction lens.

For starters, the aging is all off. If Bomer is supposed to be late 20s/early 30s in 1953, he looks way too mature. If he’s supposed to be mid-50s in 1979, he looks way too young. Maybe best positioned in 1986, when he looks like a young 60 something (But Jon looks too young here).

Also, I don’t believe this love would have been so all-consuming over so many decades with so relatively few interactions. After the early sixties, they never really had sex again. Their interactions in between were traumatic. In order for the true love ending to shake out, I think these real life characters would have needed a few more “sweet” periods between 1961 and 1986 (Fire Island certainly wasn’t it).

But again, none of this bothered me. As a storytelling device, it was amazing and hot and adorable and touching. I didn’t want it to end.

R79 It was revealed in the final episode that Hawk's wife had inherited an apartment and it was shown that Hawk and Tim used it. I think they were together more than it was shown.

R80: They used once. Tim realized all the ways it was a manipulation, WHEN HAWK PROPOSED PUTTING IT IN tIM'S NAME.

One hole in the story was Hawk's career. It's not apparent that he ever had an overseas posting. His job as a Congressional liaison is ok as an early career job, but not a career. If a mid to late career person had that job, it would be seen as a dead end. There are operational areas where someone could be US-based as a senior person, but they'd need to have had some foreign postings early in their career. He would have needed multiple overseas postings to advance and being a Counsul, not a Vice-Counsul would be the goal for capping a career.

I thought he was posted to Goa at some point?

R78 Johnny was submitted as a lead for SAG awards, not supporting. He was on the possible nominee list too, but had lower odds than Matt. Which is why it was smart of him to switch to supporting. Now he can actually win the CCA and the Emmy because there is less competition in the supporting category. Bomer and the show have no chance against Beef.

I have to say, I found Bailey's performance a little inconsistent, especially in the beginning when Tim is supposed to be this naive ingenue who is swept off his feet by Hawk. I never bought that on the show because Bailey was never timid enough. There is a brashness and confidence to him in every scene and sometimes it makes Tim seem bratty instead of smitten. And his accent is very all over the place too.

I know this is a minority opinion, most people seem to think Bailey was the best actor on the show, but I thought everyone else out-acted him. I would have liked to see Allison Williams recognized.

r81 that was the Fire Island house, not the house/apartment Hawk had been sneaking off to so much that Lucy knew what was happening.

I like Bailey a lot, R84, but I agree with you.

Did he embezzle his wife's money to buy a house in fire island. His wealth is never explained. She was loaded.

Bailey was the standout of the show for me. The other actors were fine, but he's the only one who had real charisma.

R79 - you literally match my entire thoughts on the show.

I can’t much call it between MB & JB for who I thought was best. I thought they were both excellent in it to be honest. I do agree Jonnys accent was inconsistent at times. Mostly when he was doing the highly emotional scenes, the British came through. However, it didn’t distract from his performance for me. His accent attempt is no worse than Matthew McFadden in Succession.

Anyone know if Wicked is going to be British, American or mixed accents?

R89, I think it's mixed, or a Transatlantic accent. Most of the cast is British.

R87 I kind of wished we got to know more about Hawk’s inheritance. When he refused to apologize to his father, we were left to understand he was written out of his will. His father appeared on death’s door and I’m sure Hawk’s response may have hastened his demise. Given he was an only child you could assume his mother inherited the family money and maybe she reinstated Hawk back into the will.

Hawk frequently took a paternalistic attitude towards Tim, I think in part because Tim reminded him of Kenny and maybe his younger and more innocent self. I didn’t think his offer to leave the Fire Island house to Tim was solely to hide his liaison from his family as Tim accused him. I think he might have wanted to pass on an inheritance of sort, free of the shame and guilt his father required of him. Of course, he wanted to keep Tim in his life in “gay paradise.” It’s rare that anyone action stems from a single motivation.

I agree actually. I never thought him offering Tim the house was solely to hide his own actions. Part of it, probably. But I took it more as deeper routed kind gesture. A place for openly gay Tim to enjoy & the house would have been worth a fair bit. Hawk could never allow himself to love Tim openly but his actions often showed how much he wanted to protect & look after Tim.

You mean like outing Tim so that Tim could never hold another government job?

I don't understand why the fans of FT regard a series of clandestine trysts as a grand love story. Bomer was very unkind to everyone, including Tim.

Agreed, R94. We're meant to think Hawk's abominable behavior was caused solely by the social pressures of the times, but I think he was also a selfish and callous man. To me, the series is about two very damaged men who fed off each other's pathologies to the detriment of themselves and others in their orbit.

R95: The damage and their pathology can't really be easily separated from each other. Even in more contemporary series like "Queer as Folk", the characters are visibly shaped by their environment.

In "Red, White and Royal Blue" they were lovely to each other and managed to have buttsex with very little angst. They were both very young and lived happily ever after. Now isn't that a much more entertaining story?

I am a huge RWRB book fan. Movie was alright, didn’t think the leads had as much chemistry as everyone banged on about but it was a nice enough watch. I much preferred FT. There is very much a place for both light & dark stories. I sometimes want a HEA, I sometimes want to cry for hours.

I do wish there was more middle ground. RWRB is great escapism but it’s about a prince & a FOTUS. Not normal human beings. Then you commonly get the very real & utterly heartbreaking queer stories about AIDS or forbidden love. And I think the telling of history (or even present day homophobia) in those stories is so important & must continue to be told. But I’d love a decent drama series with a gay leading or prominent character where his sexuality isn’t necessarily the primary focus but the relationships he has are wrapped up in the story. Like any kinda drama with couples in it. A gay Mad Men would be great.

R93 Hawk outing Tim didn’t happen in a vacuum. Tim’s repeated inability to judge and recognize the danger and damage the political environment he operated in could cause was naive at best or reckless and selfish at worst. He had a front row seat to McCarthy and Cohn ‘s activities that were destroying people’s lives. Cohn helped to get the Rosenberg’s executed. McCarthy’s witch-hunt not only destroyed careers but led to suicides. Tim knew this, as he pressured Hawk to declare his love for him openly. He wanted a relationship that was not possible, not remotely a reality. He saw what happened to Caroline and Mary when they chanced living together, in fact he begged Hawk to help them. Yet he judged Hawk for sneaking around, for them not living together or eating out in restaurants or going to parties together without beards. Hawk not only could have lost his job, he could have gone to prison if McCarthy accused him of espionage or treason. Hawk made a calculated risk to harm assessment and came up with a decision to sacrifice Caroline to save Tim and Mary. By extension, you could argue he protected himself. But it was plainly Mary and Tim who were in trouble and yes Hawk protected Tim, who could then view himself as morally superior. Mary, who took the lifeline Hawk threw her and betrayed Caroline, hasn’t a leg to stand on in later criticizing Hawk.

Tim said he had to get over Hawk and left to join the Army, leaving Hawk to marry Lucy. He said don’t write, let me go. Hawk didn’t write, but we know he kept tabs on Tim all those years. It was Tim who reached out to Hawk twice. He left the letter Lucy burned and he sent the telegram prompting Hawk to offer him the job in addition to resuming their affair. Hawk now had a wife and a baby on the way and the man he loved back in his life. In the end he chose Lucy and Jackson over Tim. He made another calculated risk assessment and he felt getting Tim banned from government service was the lesser of two evils. Of course it served to protect him as well. He knew the only way to break off the relationship would take this level of hurt to Tim. Yet even when hurting Tim, he dispatches Mary to explain and staves off an investigation into Tim that would have outed him to his family and got him a dishonorable discharge from the military. So, yes, Hawk is a complicated character but his love of Tim was messy and complicated like in real life.

Maybe not having read the book makes me too sympathetic to Hawk, but I saw him more as tragic than sociopathic. He comes from an emotionally unavailable family and mostly replicates that behavior with those around him. There are two people (other than his children) he tries to bridge the distance with and since he takes turns betraying each for the other he manages to destroy both of Lucy and Tim’s lives and fails to have a successful romantic relationship.

I don’t believe Hawk destroyed either Lucy’s or Tim’s lives. They made choices, too. It was a tough situation for all of them. In the end, Hawk suffered from the choices he made as much as anyone else.

I wish the series had been stretched out to more than one season.

R93

lbr, Tim wouldn't have lasted a day without outing both himself and Hawk. And it would have been much worse for him if he were a govt employee. Don't forget the only reason Hawk got questioned in the first place because Tim was naive enough to waltz into his office and leave him a book with a note. I know fandom idolizes Tim, but his complete denial of reality was selfish at best. He didn't ever think of the consequences of his actions. He was like a bratty kid sometimes.

I loved the naked dance scene in the finale. There should have been more like that.

To be in love and one dies. I can relate to the tragedy of it all. I cried.

Love never dies.

[quote] Love never dies.

Particularly when a bag of oranges is involved.

I've noticed there's a leap in age between Matt and his husband. Maybe it makes hubby feel young but someday it will make Matt feel older than he is. No judgement, just stating a fact.

"I would have liked to see Allison Williams recognized."

Was hoping Will Brill and Jelani Alladin might get some love...

I feel that I must clarify. When someone has a relationship with someone who's not even within the same generation, where's the compatibility? It's too much of a stretch.

Matt & Simon have been married for 12 years & presumably together a while before that. Guessing it’s not too much of a stretch for them personally. Just because you don’t like it, ain’t gona split them up.

Also, do you not have friends of different ages? My best mate is 12 years older than me. We have far more in common than we don’t!

R108 wow what gave it away? Lol

matt has been raising kids with Simon since he was 27 so I am guessing he has been feeling older for quite some time. In fact I think Simon already had Kit when they started dating.

R111 Matt probably had a lot of predators in the industry (lbr with a face like that) and Simon must have protected him from it. and wasn't he estranged from his family after he came out to them? Makes sense that he sought out an older man with a family

There has never been any reason to think they aren’t happy together. No one would bat an eye at that age difference between a man and a woman.

Jonathan Bailey wins Best Supporting Actor in a Limited Series or Movie Made for Television at the Critics Choice Awards!

But Steven Yeun takes the Best Actor award, beating Matt.

Jonathan's acceptance speech.

“Everyone who has seen the show knows Matt & I come together.” Jonathan Bailey accepting award.

Matt should have won too, but he had no chance against Yeun and Beef.

Bailey got lucky that there were no contenders from Beef in his category.

[quote] Matt should have won too, but he had no chance against Yeun and Beef.

Matt was stronger than Johnny but I don't think either really deserved to win an award. Someone must have paid the Critics for this trophy.

R119

who should have won over Johnny? There wasn't any competition in that category

though I am sure trolls will use it to say he was better than Matt

[quote] who should have won over Johnny? There wasn't any competition in that category.

Jesse Plemons. Liev Schreiber. Typically they give those awards to actors who've been at it for a while. Bailey was fine, I've nothing against him.

R121 Bailey benefitted from the FT hype. Matt and the show were both runners up to Beef so they gave it to Bailey.

You meanies. Jonny is fantastic in FT, he deserves it. I’m so pleased for him, he was genuinely overwhelmed in his backstage interviews bless him. The show deserves recognition too & he got to do that which is lovely.

The FT cast at Critics Choice

Lucky for Matt and Jonny that Beef won't be eligible for Emmys next year

R124

They are an uncommonly beautiful cast

R123

I mean, he won, who cares what anyone here says

Hope the show and Matt can win something too

Matt posted this fan edit on Instagram

The guy who played Craig talked about Matt and Johnny on his insta. He is clearly crushing hard on Matt, says he has a magical presence and he hasn't felt that way about someone in a long time

Did anyone else notice how Johnny kissed Matt on the lips when he won?

R124 R126 Yeah but it's not attractive to show your hairy muscle chest under a tacky-vulgar luxe suit. Vuitton?

R130 Matt kissed Jonny and then Simon kissed him. So did most of the rest of cast. Everyone was thrilled that he represented the show with its first award.

R130 No, just you

They are all doing very well for this soapy "Women's picture" gussied up like a gay public service. I have to say, I enjoyed it well enough, but I'm already kind of rolling my eyes at the hoopla. I'm glad they're having a chance for some nice publicity for the show.

R134

of course you are. it wouldn't be DL if someone wasn't rolling their eyes at any marginally successful gays.

"I committed mortal sins for you! I could go to hell."

Very "Days Of Our Lives."

Well, nearly everyone associated with Fellow Travelers was gay, including the author of the book it was adapted from. You can’t blame women for whatever complaints you have. A series that only appealed to gay men wouldn’t have receive this much attention. That doesn’t mean that every gay man has to love it, though.

R136 Very 1950’s Catholic boy, I think.

r135 thinks every show he's ever seen with a "queer" character was "Amazing!" and will tolerate no deviation from his edict!

I said "rolling my eyes at the hoopla", brainiac.

R139

Au contraire, this is the only queer show I liked this year

Joey Kirchner, Andrew the handyman who Lucy fires.

People magazine interview with Matt Bomer after SCAD award.

If only they'd done a decade per season, we would have had four. Sigh.

I finally watched all of FT this weekend.

meh...

Anal?

R145 Lots of anal, yes.

Finally broke down and got Paramount +. This is very good. The double lives everyone was forced to leave.

Matt, Jonathan & Ron all nominated

Sad thing is, Bailey is nominated against fucking RDJ- IRON MAN!. They'll probably just hand it to him, regardless of acting ability. Our Skippy deserves it!

Matt probably won’t win either, but both of them should. Their characters were so intense and they played them so well. Maybe Ron, the writer, has a chance.

Matt is in one of the toughest categories. He's up against Andrew Scott (Ripley), Jon Hamm (Fargo), Richard Gadd (Baby Reindeer), and Tom Hollander (Feud: Capote vs. the Swans). I could see the Emmy going to any one of them.

Jonathan B needs to present hole.

I agree. I would tongue it all nite long.

I don't have Showtime and am not going to do so, but the series is available to purchase on Amazon Prime for $15.

Ron Nyswaner is “Not Ready To Retire” As There’s More Queer American History To Unveil: