I watched Dreamgirls last night

Oops I posted the film version which does not feature her vocals.

Give it a rest.

OP? We don’t need Deena Jones or Dreamgirls gay-splained to us. Okay? K.

[quote]Ain’t I am Telling You

Oh, dear.

[quote] Beyoncé almost got fired for having too powerful a voice for Deena Jones.

Yeah, I love Beyonce too but you may be taking this a little too far.

If Beyonce was going to be fired for anything it should’ve been for her being too sweet and saccharine in the role of Deena Jones that was supposed to be based on the ambitious, catlike , charismatic and sometimes bitchy Diva Diana Ross. Her portrayal was a boring and sweetened version of Miss Ross. There was no grittiness there.

Her screen test kind of sucks, vocally.

The whole Dreamgirls story is kind of false. If you look up and listen to Florence Ballard it wasn't like she was this incredible singer who got pushed aside. She was kind of dour and Diana Ross was just as good a singer. Plus Ross had the charisma and star quality to head the group that Ballard didn't.

[quote] If Beyonce was going to be fired for anything it should’ve been for her being too sweet and saccharine in the role of Deena Jones that was supposed to be based on the ambitious, catlike , charismatic and sometimes bitchy Diva Diana Ross. Her portrayal was a boring and sweetened version of Miss Ross. There was no grittiness there.

Well, that goes back to the book of the original stage show. Diana Ross might have been (might be?) a bitch, but Deena Jones was not.

Neither Sheryl Lee Ralph (whom I saw originate the role on Broadway) nor Audra McDonald (who memorably played Deena in the 2001 concert version) were at all bitchy in the part. But they both showed grit and gumption, which Beyonce was not able to .

But did she have ... SPUNK?

They BEGGED me to take the Effie role. BEGGED ME. When I auditioned I barely got through two verses of the song before they made me stop. They were weeping, crying and shaking and said had never heard anyone sing as beautifully as I. Miss Hudson was there and told me she had prayed all her life that she’d have a voice like mine. However, I was far too busy helping invent a cure for cancer that I had to tell them no.

R6 I’m guessing you have never seen the play Dreamgirls was actually based on. It’s all inspired from Motown but not biographical. She played the part perfectly.

Beyonce was so flat in this film allowing the mediocre Hudson to take it away from her.

The only one in this movie who deserved an Oscar was Eddie Murphy.

And he didn't win..

Go figure.

MADtv spoof when the movie came out. 😂

Similar yet different

The Broadway show made an effort to differentiate between The Dreams and The Supremes, but the movie blurred the lines right down to the costumes and album covers.

They even changed the girls hometown from Chicago to Detroit to drive the point home.

[quote]Ain’t I am Telling You

[quote]Oh, dear.

Oh, c’mon! That was like the best number in the whole show. The only ones that even came close were the “Got Me a Toyota Tercel Car” and JHud’s other showstopper “Just One Night, Mm’kay?”

I was in tears and you’re MOCKING the OP??

Beyonce's biographer told a funny story about Whitney Houston. David Geffen wanted Whitney to star as Deena Jones in the proposed film adaptaion, in the late 80s years before "The Bodyguard." Whitney was very excited about doing it but she had one stipulation -- her character had to sing "And I Am Telling You I Am Not Going" and "I Am Changing." Whitney had a very long history performing those songs starting with her early 80s cabaret days. She understood that Effie was the main character who commanded the sympathy and attention of the audience with those songs. So all the high-powered producers and creative people descended on Whitney to mansplain why it was not possible for the Deena character to sing those songs. Whitney listened to everyone and simply said "make it work!" They couldn't so she didn't.

R19 Effie is not the main character of Dreamgirls. Deena Jones and Curtis are.

R7 She sounded just like Diana Ross and bodied all her mannerisms. It is the most convincing character she has ever played.

[quote][R19] Effie is not the main character of Dreamgirls. Deena Jones and Curtis are.

Ben Harney ("Curtis"), Jennifer Holliday ("Effie"), and Sheryl Lee Ralph ("Deena") were all nominated for lead Tonys; Harney and Holliday won.

Cleavant Derricks ("Jimmy") and Obba Babatundé ("C.C.") were put in the featured category; Derricks won.

[quote]Whitney listened to everyone and simply said "make it work!" They couldn't so she didn't.

And I am telling you

SHE’s not going!

You’re the best man SHE’s ever known

There’s no way SHE can ever go!

See? It works?

When I saw Whitney in concert in the mid-‘80s, before the 2nd album came out and she was still touring the 1st album (even though she sang I Wanna Dance With Somebody and Didn’t We Almost Have It All), she sang I Am Changing. They could’ve turned that into an Effie/Deena duet for the movie if they really had to, y’know, cross-cutting between the two characters in different transitions in their lives.

[quote] [R19] Effie is not the main character of Dreamgirls. Deena Jones and Curtis are.

In the musical, Effie IS the main character. The movie created more story for Deena because they had a star playing her.

R25 kind of like the musical CHICAGO.

On stage, Velma and Roxie are co-leads, but the film put the main focus on Roxie (the songs are fantasy sequences in her head) and whittled down Velma to a supporting role (a lot of her dialog and songs were cut).

I feel mixed about the film. They had some great sequences, and I loved the opening where Henry Krieger expanded "I'm Looking for Something" into a full song, which really worked. I thought the second half was really muddled, and for some insane reason they took out "Ain't No Party" which is one of the very best songs in the score (and Lorrell's only big number).

R14, it's the easiest thing to figure. "Norbit".

[quote]r27 for some insane reason they took out "Ain't No Party" which is one of the very best songs in the score

The Lorrell actress sang it at her audition.

I bet Beyoncé was like, “Oh, HELL no! I already got one belter jostling me over THERE with HER two solos!”

The problem with Dreamgirls is in the songs which are not just musically and lyrically pedestrian but historically disastrous; a movie about soul music that has no soul.

Did the Supremes sing soul music?

It was pop.

The songs in Dreamgirls are Broadway not Motown.

“Aside from Jennifer Hudson’s beefy performance, this black r&b musical never conveys much soul.”

Reviewed by Dennis Schwartz

It’s interesting the costume designer had to customize the heel heights for the 3 Dreams, as they were varying height and they were supposed to look fairly uniform. (5’9”, 5’7” and 5’3”)

What is this fable?!

[quote]The only reason Condon allowed Listen in the 3rd act is because it could demonstrate the characters growth while also mirroring the power of Ain’t I am Telling You before the film’s end.

"Listen" is an absolutely terrible song and doesn't deserve to be anywhere near that score.

[quote] The only one in this movie who deserved an Oscar was Eddie Murphy. And he didn't win..Go figure.

They gave Alan Arkin a Lifetime Achievement Award instead. Nothing Arkin did in "Little Miss Sunshine" deserved a nomination, let alone a win. Mr. Murphy was robbed.

Dreamgirls was one of the worst movies I've ever seen. I stopped watching after about 15 minutes and have never tried to watch it again. Never would for any reason. Just terrible.

[quote]I watched Dreamgirls last night

I dreamt I went to Manderley again.

R37, what happened within the first 15 minutes that made you hate the movie so much that you stopped watching it? Like many other movies, the first 15 minutes is mostly just set-up for the story, and I thought it was done very well.

But the music provides no guidance through the times, and as it tries to negotiate a period of profound change, it comes to rely on the talents of its production and costume designers, John Myhre and Sharen Davis, both of whom do brilliant work. The decades are marked by the progression of hairstyles, lapels, jewelry and dresses; after a while the experience starts to feel like a long, noisy guided tour through a museum. NY Times

[quote]r36 "Listen" is an absolutely terrible song and doesn't deserve to be anywhere near that score.

That lady who won The X Factor did a good job of it… out of nowhere.

She was a former cruise ship singer who’d become a prison guard.

This is how she ended up:

That cameo by Loretta Devine came out of nowhere and added nothing. Overall, the film is a mess. Unfortunately, it gave Jennifer Hudson an Oscar. For what? She will never win again. I share clips of her performance in "Cats" with friends for laughs.

R43, can you be a bit more specific than just commenting that "overall, the film is a mess?"

People in the theater where I saw the movie actually applauded after "And I Am Telling You ... " Some even stood up.

R45 Yeah me 2.

R44 The songs are lousy, the ostensible lead Beyonce is bland, the characters are as one dimensional as the story is cliched. The film offers no surprises as the backstage story is so predictable and the stars lack the individuality and charisma of the Motown performers they are so clearly based on. It's not the least bit memorable; it evaporates as you watch it.

from Stephanie Zacharek's review "STOP! In the Name of Love" 12/15/2006

"This is a puny pinched version of R&B history and of R& B itself. A sanitized show-tunized reading of some of the greatest pop music to come out of the 1960s."

"Even taken on its own terms divorced from the real story of Motown and the Supremes, Dreamgirls is a frenzied, slapdash exercise a dramatic slice and dice in which scenes zip past us in an inconsequential blur. Characters have crisis before they even have personalities (if they're ever lucky enough to get personality)"

"But Dreamgirls asks nothing of Beyonce all she has to do is wear a succession of alternately sequined and slinky outfits and blink her big Bambi eyes. She's less a dream girl than a waxy living doll."

[quote]"This is a puny pinched version of R&B history and of R& B itself. A sanitized show-tunized reading of some of the greatest pop music to come out of the 1960s."

Well, that's an odd critique, in view of the fact that DREAMGIRLS has an original score (though obviously a pastiche of '60s pop and R&B).

The review said the reading was sanitized and bland, not the material.

Then I don't know what the word "reading" is supposed to mean in that context, and in my opinion, that whole line of the review is confusing.

R48 The songs are Broadway tunes not Motown and a number of critics pointed this out.

NY Times 12/15/2006

"But the problem with “Dreamgirls” — and it is not a small one — lies in those songs, which are not just musically and lyrically pedestrian, but historically and idiomatically disastrous. This is a musical, after all, about music, about an especially vibrant and mutable strain of rhythm and blues that proclaimed itself, boastfully but not inaccurately, to be “the sound of young America.”

[quote] They gave Alan Arkin a Lifetime Achievement Award instead. Nothing Arkin did in "Little Miss Sunshine" deserved a nomination, let alone a win. Mr. Murphy was robbed.

Eddie was another one who shunned Hollywood but showed up on Oscar night expecting to win.

[quote]Beyoncé almost got fired for having too powerful a voice for Deena Jones.

The most ridiculous thing I've ever heard.

At some award show, Beyonce, Hudson, and Rose sang songs from the show. Beyonce was clearly outmatched by both of the others with Rose obviously holding back.

Next, you'll tell me Joe Jonas was almost fired for the same reason...Alfie Boe was trembling, I tell you. Trembling.

R47 Beyoncé was absolutely phenomenal and brilliant in this; she always is. Audiences loved this film. Jhud got a standing ovation and many clapped after Beyonces listen though they did not stand.

R53 You telling a goddam lie. Lie again ho. Beyoncé got all the praise as she was clearly the more technically gifted and trained singer. Jhud was gasping for air, and Rose oversang in parts trying to leave her mark. You completely made that up.

The movie sucks. Something got lost in translation from stage to screen. It’s like the movie was too glossy, like one long music video, and there was none of the gritty sleazy “Showbiz” feeling from the stage production. See for yourself.

R55 And my comment was referring to when they all sang during the live Oscar telecast the following winter of 07. Lying ass cunts.

I liked that movie a lot. I don't even like Jamie Foxx or Beyonce. Steppin' to the Bad Side was the showstopper if you ask me.

R36 Murphy was not robbed. Jackie Earle Hailey was. He won the NYFCC for his brave and disturbing performance in Little Children and Djimon Hounsou was named Best Supporting actor by the National Board of Review. Murphy was doing his usual schtick.

R51, I'm aware that the score of DREAMGIRLS consists of original songs written in the style of Motown, not actual Motown songs. I have always considered the DREAMGIRLS songs to be generally very well regarded, despite that quote from the NY Times review. Many people justifiably bitch about so many awful "jukebox" musicals that attempt, often unsuccessfully, to work pre-existing pop hits into a Broadway show. As for me, I'll take an original score any day, if it's a good one, and I think DREAMGIRLS qualifies.

I enjoyed Dream Girls. I thought all the performances were strong.

However, the idea that Hudson came close to Holliday or Beyonce's performance (singing or acting) came close to Sheryl Lee Ralph is unrealistic.

It was a great movie, but hardly transcendent performances by incomparable actors at the height of their craft.

I don’t care what anyone says. Beyoncé beauty in this film is so ethereal and timeless. She is one of the most beautiful women to ever grace the big screen.

[quote]"Even taken on its own terms divorced from the real story of Motown and the Supremes, Dreamgirls is a frenzied, slapdash exercise a dramatic slice and dice in which scenes zip past us in an inconsequential blur. Characters have crisis before they even have personalities (if they're ever lucky enough to get personality)"

That was my main complaint, too.

There would be a quick scene of dialog and then a song.

Another quick scene of dialog and then another song.

And so on.

It felt like the movie was just a string of songs; the plot was inconsequential.

[Quote] It felt like the movie was just a string of songs; the plot was inconsequential.

that was true of the Broadway show it was breezy and basically one song followed the next. It moved fast but the movie drags.

R64, you feel that the movie drags? If anything, I thought some of it moved a bit too quickly, and like so many other recent musical films, I felt it was over-edited in sections.

Would it have been better with Miss Lake Dardanelle?

R65 because the scenes of backstage conflicts and the one-dimensional characters were so overly familiar to anyone over the age of 12, the movie at 2h 10m dragged.

R67, I don't think the particular backstage conflicts that are at the center of DREAMGIRLS are overly familiar, nor do I think the characters are one-dimensional, so that's why I disagree with your overall opinion.

what was unique about the backstage conflicts R68 and the characters?

"Dreamgirls" was written and directed by Bill Condon, who wrote the screenplay for "Chicago," and is in that film's same overhyped vein. Based on the 1982 Broadway show, it's loud and flashy. And it's predictable, even if you're new to the material.

It’s called being entertained, good ol fashion clean fun you old grapes.

NEW YORK MAGAZINE

The music it has is awful. The onstage numbers get stale after two choruses, and the old-fashioned Broadway ones in which people sing their thoughts are Lite FM sludge, like Lionel Richie doing recitative at the Met.

The director, Bill Condon, keeps the energy up, although he chops the dances into itty bits, and half the numbers segue into montages—the girls traveling cross-country, the girls becoming sensations, etc. In the original Broadway production, there were montages, too: Michael Bennett was celebrating and parodying the language of movie musicals. But what was breathtaking on stage is business-as-usual on-screen.

R71 it's called flat, boring and unoriginal. Josie and the Pussycats is more entertaining. 4 decades before Dreamgirls, Beyond the Valley of the Dolls was parodying what Dreamgirls takes so seriously. A girl trio and their adventures in showbiz.

[Quote] I don’t care what anyone says. Beyoncé beauty in this film is so ethereal and timeless. She is one of the most beautiful women to ever grace the big screen.

[Quote] Beyoncé was absolutely phenomenal and brilliant in this; she always is. Audiences loved this film. Jhud got a standing ovation and many clapped after Beyonces listen though they did not stand.

Hi Jay-z

I prefer Beyoncé’s stirring performance in OBSESSED.

[quote]What was unique about the backstage conflicts [R68] and the characters?

The reason why Effie is shunted aside, and all the drama surrounding that with Curtis et al.,, may not be "unique" but I certainly wouldn't say it's cliche.

I thought it was entertaining when I saw it the weekend it opened, yet I don't remember one minute of it to be honest.

The story’s boring after Effie gets shitcanned.

There is nothing boring about this score.

I can’t stand Beyoncé’s voice. She doesn’t sing. She bellows and yodels with not an ounce of feeling or taste.

My life is NOT a fucking story!!!!!!!

I really don;t think the show is rally worth this silly, silly thread. It was a white man's fantasy of the dynamics of the music scene of the times. It trivialized all of the important themes and dynamics, eg. the riots, racism in the music industry, organized crime connections, etc. It was fun to watch but is not great theater. Plus it created the monster that is Jennifer Hudson.

R81 I always loved that quote!