WHET Karen Lynn Gorney: Saturday Night Fever

Compare Swayze with Lisa Nieme. Now this is a beautiful partner dance. Scrub to 55 sec.

She was on All My Children for years as Tara

She ran off with that guy that does those commercials. You know who I mean. You know, that guy. Him.

Simple. She sat down on the Casting Couch, lifted her skirt (no panties!), spread her legs, laid back, and lifted her legs up to Jesus. Either that or she was related to one of the producers.

Surely they had more attractive girls on the casting couch for a movie like that, though? I mean, she is a rudimentary dancer and actress and also not very attractive at all by the standards straight men usually go for.

My guess is that whoever had the power to cast her was after Travolta, and wanted both women in the film to be girls who had no chance of attracting Travolta's attention. (We know now that would be a fond hope anyway, but then it might not have been as clear.)

She was placed in a convalescent home for senior citizens in 1977.

I’m pretty sure her father had something to do with the movie production. I agree she was absolutely terrible, and deserved to have no career whatsoever.

I've never seen this movie, but in that little dance sequence at OP, she didn't seem any worse than John Travolta?

Her bio on Wikipedia is funny.

[quote]In 1977, Gorney co-starred in her third film, and biggest role to date, as Stephanie Mangano in Saturday Night Fever, alongside John Travolta.[1] The next year, she appeared as a celebrity panelist on Hollywood Squares.

Her big follow up to Saturday Night Fever was an episode of Hollywood Squares!

Angie getting gang banged was the best though.

Well then she was holding him back. His solo dance number is sensational.

She looked like she could be Travolta's mother.

When she was on All My Children she was awful, but more than that when her character got excited her nostrils would flair in and out, almost a flutter. After a moment it was all you could see. My older sister would mock her by grabbing the sides of her nose and pushing her nostrils in and out

You just knew she was headed nowhere

John Travolta is one of the greatest dancers you will ever see. Karen, Lynn is as stiff as a board. The movie doesn’t make sense that she would be his partner. There must have been better dancers he could have chosen.

I vaguely remember she had a coke problem after Saturday Night Fever. So there’s that.

[quote] John Travolta is one of the greatest dancers you will ever see

Seek help, r14

In a weird way, casting her as the female lead was fitting

It showed as damaged John Travolta’s character was, that he thought she was beautiful, a good choice and role model.

Not sure if that’s how the director/casting wanted to project, but that’s how I take it.

Bless your heart.

For anyone alive in the mid 1970’s this was everything. The movie and the album were absolutely huge.

I like the "Airplane" version...

I worked at the answering service she used in 1986. She was living in her car.

Karen quit acting after botched surgery on her two left feet.

So she needed some help counting, what else was she supposed to do, man?!?

[quote] When she was on All My Children she was awful, but more than that when her character got excited her nostrils would flair in and out, almost a flutter. After a moment it was all you could see. My older sister would mock her by grabbing the sides of her nose and pushing her nostrils in and out….

One must LEARN to act with one’s nostrils…it’s an art.

She got a bad rep for being late, stoned and uncooperative. She dissed Dinah Shore, who was doing a special for 'starlets' of 1977 or some such. She showed up and was in no shape to tape. That got around and there went her career. She was INCREDIBLY popular on All My Children, and many eons later came back to reprise Tara. She looked better and though the gig didn't last, it looked like she got herself straightened out.

One thing I remembered about her is that her heavy Brooklyn accent didn't match her WASPish appearance.

r25 "She dissed Dinah Shore"

Link, please?

Some of these blockbuster movies you wonder- if the producers could have foreseen the mega box office- if they would have hired big stars. Mark Hamill for Star Wars? His career went nowhere.

She was just in a play off off Broadway with a friend of mine. Sorry, didn't see it.

When she made a few return appearances on AMC as Tara in the 90s, they had a few scenes where they revisited the Erica/Tara rivalry. Susan Lucci still looked awesome, but Karen Lynn looked frumpy and matronly.

[quote]I worked at the answering service she used in 1986. She was living in her car.

You got a problem with that?

Her father was Jay Gorney, who wrote the music for the classic Depression-era anthem, "Brother, Can You Spare a Dime?"

NYT 1982 (the coke years?):

[quote]Miss Gorney ... craves to be noticed in public. 'There are two places I'm very happy,' she says. 'One is in the back of a limo, the other is wherever there's a camera on me. Then I come alive. As an artist and an actress, I feel part of my job is to be seen, to be a spokeswoman for my time.' Miss Gorney says she wishes the paparazzo Ron Galella would follow her.

This article about the making of SNF has a bit about Gorney’s casting. It has a lot about Donna Pescow, who also eventually wound up on All My Children.

She and Travolta seemed so much in love. Did they have an off-camera affair?

Karen Lynn is a dumb name. Why not just Karen?

Wasn't she dating someone involved like a producer?

‘Cause she’s not a Karen. Duh

[quote] One thing I remembered about her is that her heavy Brooklyn accent didn't match her WASPish appearance.

But her character was from Brooklyn. I'll totally agree that she should have been a much better dancer for Tony to be so dazzled by her footwork that he wanted to partner with her and was so insistent on it, but the character of Stephanie was never meant to be someone like, say, Finola Hughes' character in Staying Alive, or some dream glamour WASP who was totally unattainable. Stephanie was pretending. She was just as working class and stupid as Tony, only she was more insecure about it and put on airs. Tony was still a kid, naive, and took everything at face value. He had no idea this woman was full of shit. He didn't know anything beyond the 20 block radius of his neighborhood. He never even went into Manhattan until the end of the movie.

Outside of the dancing, I've never gotten all the vitriol for Gorney in this role. I thought she played those aspects of Stephanie well. We were all supposed to see that she wasn't what she convinced herself she was, and we did. That was the character, not because of a bad performance by Gorney.

As a movie-watcher, I could believe that Tony would have been physically attracted to Gorney (physically). She was seen as classy and a cut above women like Pescow. I even believe he could have overlooked her lack of dancing skills.

Her acting was just bad. In her big scene, where she's busted for being a sugar baby, the acting was so horrible.

The casting director was Shirley Rich who did the ABC soaps during the 70s. She cast Ryan's Hope and discovered Kate Mulgrew. She wanted Kate for the role but she was pregnant and couldn't do it. She knew Gorney from AMC and got her an audition but in the end it was up to Travolta and Badham who both liked her more than runner up Jessica Lange.

And she was a full decade older than Travolta.

I understand the pain John must have gone through having to be cast with much older co-stars, that's been my entire career!

I'm glad Jessica Lange didn't get it. I don't think she would have been right for it, and the audience would have wanted them to wind up together romantically because Lange is so beautiful. She's the ultimate prize for a working class bum who wants to make it. And that wasn't Tony's path.

"When she was on All My Children she was awful, but more than that when her character got excited her nostrils would flair in and out, almost a flutter."

I think she's TREMENDOUS!

Donna Pescow was perfect in the role she played. She was hot and I felt bad for her.

Donna should have gotten an Oscar nomination, especially when you consider Leslie Browne from The Turning Point got one instead.

R8, Travolta for so much praise for his dancing back then, but he never seemed like a natural dancer to me. It all looked like such hard work.

A quote fromher IMDB page: [on the lack of film work, post her breakthrough Saturday Night Fever] They didn't know what to do with me. I was ahead of my time, and they didn't know what to put me in.

She seems modest. I like her.

Pauline Kael wrote about Karen Lynn in Saturday Night FeVer:

You can't quite figure out whether it's the character or the actress that you're not sure about until Gorney wins you over by her small, harried tight face and her line readings, which are sometimes miraculously edgy and ardent.

Actually, Lucille Ball was offered the role, but Gary talked her out of it.

Terribly miscast, terrible dancer and looked 10 years older than Travolta. She’s the worst part of the movie.

I think she could have been good in something that was close to her own personality. Like Madonna in Desperately Seeking Susan.

Ann Reinking would’ve been perfect for the Stephanie role.

If Lange had been cast, she would've stolen the pic from Travolta, if only because the audience would have been concerned that she would have had a psychotic break at any moment. Jessica has always presented as way tooo unpredictable and erratic to play the female lead in SNF

[Quote] Terribly miscast, terrible dancer and looked 10 years older than Travolta. She’s the worst part of the movie.

Not really. The scenes between Gorney and Travolta are better than those between Travolta and his family and that pointless subplot with his brother the priest.

Her humble beginnings

As someone who didn’t see SNF until recently, I couldn’t believe this bleak and depressing film was such a monster hit.

R19- You mean the LATE 1970’s. The movie 🎥 was released in December 1977.

78-year Gorney made her film debut in Frank Perry's David and Lisa (1962) as a patient in a home for mentally disturbed adolescents

R59- The BLEAKEST part of the movie was Barry Miller walking away in those platform shoes 👞.

The hardest thing to believe is that Karen Lynn Gorney is now

78 years old!

The late 70s was a very bleak time. The movie very much of its time.

[Quote] As someone who didn’t see SNF until recently, I couldn’t believe this bleak and depressing film was such a monster hit.

The Brooklyn we see in "Saturday Night Fever "reminds us of New York's Little Italy as Martin Scorsese saw it in "Who's That Knocking at My Door?" and "Mean Streets." The characters are similar: They have few aims or ambitions and little hope of breaking out to the larger world of success -- a world symbolized for them by Manhattan, and the Brooklyn Bridge reaching out powerfully toward it.-Roger Ebert

R64- How was the late 1970’s bleak?

For gay men?

Everyone was alive and no one was sick yet - a few years later 1977 was the good old days for gay men.

If you’re referring to the United States in general- the late 1970’s was the last time we were a manufacturing powerhouse. By the early 1980’s it was all falling apart.

I liked the part when her ex older boyfriend criticizes her for using the word SUPER.

Wasn't New York bankrupt in the 1970s?

I think Travolta and Gorney did have chemistry. When he apologized to her and she looked at him, I thought that was a real moment. Yes, Mary.

Check out her website.

There was some early grumbling about Karen Lynn Gorney when filming began. Certain crew members felt she was too old for the part, and that her dancing wasn't up to par (she had sustained serious injuries in a motorcycle accident a few years earlier).

Back to Brooklyn with Deney Terrio

Jessica Lange, Kathleen Quinlan and Carrie Fisher were all considered for the role of Stephanie Mangano. Amy Irving was one of the finalists for the role.

During John Avildsen's tenure as director, Annette O'Toole was cast as Stephanie. To prep for the role, O'Toole got to dance with John Travolta at a Beverly Hills disco before Avildsen's axing ended her attachment to the film.

Karen Lynn was an unknown before this blockbuster. She has also been an unknown after this blockbuster.

[quote] Jessica Lange, Kathleen Quinlan and Carrie Fisher were all considered for the role of Stephanie Mangano. Amy Irving was one of the finalists for the role.

All of them totally wrong for the part. I do like the idea of Annette O'Toole, but I'm not sure how she came across in 1977, if she was just too young then.

I love her art! I you love kitties and puppies like I do, I'm sure you'll agree!

If you scroll to the bottom of that link, you'll see that Larry Olivier owned one of her paintings! And more!!

"Ms. Gorney's works are owned by Johnny Williams, John Travolta, Janis Ian, The Bee Gees, Robert Stigwood, John Badham, Larry Olivier, Walter Mirish, Cybil Shepard, Mandrill, Player, Blue Mink, and the Yip Harburg Estate in addition to many fans."

The '70s sucked for some heteros too, R66.

Inflation, stagnant wages, sky-high interest rates and unemployment were a big problem, which started under Nixon and carried through under Ford, Carter, and early Reagan.

I've talked with my dad about this. He and my mom, regular middle-class people (a factory foreman and an elementary school teacher) had to work and save for six years before they could afford to have a kid in the late '70s.

Gorney was fine. Her character wasn't some blockbuster Broadway star—she was just a mildly talented chick who happened to live in Manhattan, which was Valhalla to Tony Manero.

What I find more amazing about the movie is that during filming, they were dancing to NONE of the Bee Gees songs—those were all dubbed in afterward. They were dancing to Boz Scaggs' "Lowdown" and Stevie Wonder.

Travolta practices his solo dance with Denny Terrio with The Bee Gees “you should be dancing” and didn’t want to film it with a different song so the scene was filmed and the song stayed in.

SNF producers asked Boz Scaggs if they could use “Lowdown” in the film and in the soundtrack. At the same time, the producers of “looking for Mr goodbar” asked scaggs the same request. Scaggs didn’t think SNF would go anywhere so he choose “goodbar”. Using the song in “goodbar” and on the soundtrack earned him $50k. Had he chosen SNF he would’ve made around $3 million dollars.

Talk about a sad sad truth and a dirty lowdown.

A great movie that gets better with every viewing. I think she and Travolta have the right kind of chemistry; her limitations as an actress actually work for the Stephanie character in this.

My viewing of John's dancing for "You Should Be Dancing" is that his timing is a little off from the beat.

I go back to the Pleistocene Epoch. As such I saw SNF in its first run at the theatre.

I felt like the only human being alive who was not a fan of Travolta's dancing in SNF. To my eyes, he embodies Clod-hopper.

Otoh, I, by far, prefer Travolta's dancing in "Urban Cowboy." His particular movement suits the Country Western sound way more.

Stephanie and Tony were supposed to be very close in age but she looked 10 years older than him. No way she looked like she was in her early 20s.

[quote] The late 70s was a very bleak time. The movie very much of its time.

As bleak as my puberty…

Ewww, she was such a Karen! Is her hobby speaking to managers?

Kate Mulgrew would've been interesting.

They needed someone ok looking but not gorgeous and someone Italian looking. Mulgrew is too British looking and Lange too Germanic. Maybe a Talia Shire type but she was too well known already.

Is she dead?

If Mulgrew had been cast, the character of Stephanie could've easily been changed from Italian American to Irish American without affecting the plot.

I was in grade school when SNF came.out. We used to listen to this in some.classes for a while.

Original trailer

I love this photo of John Travolta and Fran Drescher.

[quote]$3 million dollars.

Oh, dear.

Was Lily Tomlin not available?

(^.^) they look like siblings.

Karen Lynn's website is hella old. But she will still do a signed SNF print for $30-50 US.

She's my aunt. I taught her all the moves.

I agree, SNF was extremely bleak and depressing in spite of its soundtrack. I think KLG goes along well with the "grit" factor. What she did well, was personify the type of girl who wasn't buying into Tony's shit and didn't fall all over him. She had her own shit. So, she did a good job with that as far as this movie. I never saw her on AMC, that I can recall. Before my time of briefly watching it in the 80s. Tony liked her because she just wasn't that into him. It wasn't all about her looks. Supposedly she could hold her own dancing with him in the movie, whereas the reality of the actors, isn't true.

R76- If she were a bit younger Penny Marshall.

Oh just fuck yourself r96. Get off the Internet if you can't handle grammar and spelling.

R95- They both look

HARDCORE

Bridge and Tunnel.

Well yes r104. That's what the whole movie was about.

R105- Between you and me Fran Drescher’s husband or boyfriend at that time Peter Marc Jacobson was far better looking than John Revolta.

R79- Interest rates were not sky high in the 1970’s. They were sky high in the 1980’s peaking at 18.61% in October 1981.

Could Nancy Allen have worked? I guess she was more of an Annette than a Stephanie.

r106 they were both very handsome.

Nancy Allen also couldn't act, but she was much closer in age to Travolta and she was much better looking than Gorney.

Surely this was a role for DL fav Pamela Sue Martin.

Or DL fav Patti LuPone.

I've seen the lost footage from the day she got fired and I can tell you, Helen Lawson was doing a lot more than the splits. One of those pickles hit Travolta in his good eye.

Actually Patty Duke Astin, channeling Neely O'Hara, would have been great with Travolta in the role of Stephanie. She had the Brooklyn thing down, and the freak out scene on the bridge could have been her.

Patty Duke would've been too old.

[quote]Karen Lynn's website is hella old. But she will still do a signed SNF print for $30-50 US.

And throw in a blowjob for an extra $10.

[quote] Patty Duke would've been too old.

Karen Lynn Gorney was older than Patty Duke.

Patty Duke looked too old.

Does she insist people call her Karen Lynn? Like, both names? That seems weird.

What about Jennifer Beals? Maybe too good-looking and hard to cut in a body double for ALL the dancing. But I could see her with Travolta.

Jennifer Beals was 13 years old when SNF was filmed.

R107 shut the fuck up. The annual high point in 1979 was 17.6%.

I remember being a teenager and going to see SNF. I thought it was a lighthearted romp, in the vein of Grease (think Grease came out after, but you get the drift)

I was like WTF, before WTF was a thing

Karen Lynn is no Betty Lynn

Who was no Vera Lynn.

Not by the hair of her chinny chin chin.

[Quote] As someone who didn’t see SNF until recently, I couldn’t believe this bleak and depressing film was such a monster hit.

Many 70s movies were bleak and gritty particularly those set in NY: Death Wish, The French Connection, Klute, Joe, Little Murders, Desperate Characters, Serpico, Lipstick, The Possession of Joel Delaney, Mean Streets, Taxi Driver, The Eyes of Laura Mars, Across 110th Street, Panic in Needle Park, Looking for Mr. Goodbar . . .so SNF didn't seem particularly bleak to me.

The French Connection blew my mind! I only recently watched it (about 2 yrs ago).

The Reincarnation of Peter Proud…watch that one and then slice your wrists.

Kathleen Quinlan would’ve been great but I think she’s younger than Travolta.

Bonnie Franklin proved she could successfully play Italian on ODAAT AND she would have looked about Travolta's age because her haircut made her cute and gamine. She really was timeless! Also she could dance!

Dammit, Tony!

R30- I remember this as well. Susan Lucci still looked like a million dollar bill and she looks like a total frump. I feel like hair and makeup and the costume department didn’t do her any favors as this clips shows. She looks like Joe Martin’s wife… not daughter! Side bar- I loved the Kelsey teenage pregnancy storyline. It tied so many families and characters together (Martin/Cortlandt/Grey/Santos).

I always think Kathleen Quinlan was that wan that was a vegetable for years but it was someone else.

One of the reasons I love Datalounge. A place for Karen Lynn Gorney threads

Karen Ann Quinlan. I always heard she mainlined peanut butter. Seriously.

[quote]Kate Mulgrew would've been interesting.

I agree. I see why she was considered. She was really cute then, and people loved her as spunky Mary Ryan on Ryan's Hope.

I also see why she wasn't cast, though—she had an innate refined quality and would've had to work hard to tamp it down.

Kate Mulgrew could've played working class Brooklyn, she's a great actress.

Here she is around the time of SNF, she was 21/22 so she would've been exactly the right age for Stephanie.

Kathleen Quinlin is only 9 months younger than Travolta. She was a gymnast but not a trained dancer.

Of all the supremely talented actresses/dancers, the producers chose Karen Lynn Gorney??? She is the only flaw in this classic film.

Annette O’Toole would have been perfect.

Kathleen Quinlan was everywhere for a bit a then just disappeared. Same with Brooke Adams and a few other actresses from that era.

R133- and NUMEROUS Vivian Vance threads

Kay Lenz would have been perfect as Stephanie.

I'm so glad none of you became casting directors.

R143 Same.

Obviously, this move should have starred Miss Brenda Dickson as Stephanie.

Brenda would have brought a sense of realism to the role that Casting Couch Karen Lynn lacked.

Our Lucy could have played Stefanie with a VERY raspy voice

BUT

unfortunately Gary talked her out of it.

r143 several mentioned on this thread would've been better in the part.

I think she was a one hit wonder. Did she use a casting couch to get the role?

[quote]R132 I always think Kathleen Quinlan was that vegetable for years but it was someone else.

I mix her up with Kathleen Beller, because I only (rarely) see their names in print and have seen about 1 movie between them.

Kathleen was a beautiful Jew with hair down to her knees. She was great but short lived in “Mary White”.

Wasn't Kathy Beller married to Thomas Dolby? And of course, she had the worst character name in tv history: Kirby Colby.

I was asked to play Stephanie more than once, but I had to turn them down because I was too busy filming my blockbuster smash hit "A Star is Born"!!!

[quote]r41 I'm so glad none of you became casting directors. — Shirley Rich

Trivia: Shirley Rich plays Our Faye’s modeling agent in “Puzzle of a Downfall Child.” She has several scenes and she’s perfect!

I wonder how they chose her.

Kay Lenz would’ve been too pretty to play Stephanie. A lot of these names are beautiful/conventionally attractive so you would know why Stephanie acted so snotty and pretentious. Tony and Stephanie were both a bit delusional about themselves but in different ways.

Debralee Scott may have worked as Stephanie. She was around the same age as travolta

R154- What about Penny Marshall?

Penny was older than Gorney.

[quote] What about Penny Marshall?

No.

Kate Mulgrew didn't audition because she was pregnant out of wedlock. However, she was Shirley Rich's discovery and she really wanted her. Kate was very working class on Ryan's Hope and also showed a vulnerability she didn't in her later work. She was also pushy and often exasperating so Stephanie might not have been a stretch.

[quote]She was also pushy and often exasperating so Stephanie might not have been a stretch.

Do you mean as her character on Ryan's Hope or her actual personality?

What about LUCY?

Here is Kate on Ryan's Hope and she's so sanctimonious and smug. Very much Stephanie.

The tension between Tony and Stephanie is palpable and in terms of the movie it works. It's one of the least cliched aspects of the film.

"Playing opposite him Karen Lynn Gorney whose facial style is as tense and hard as his is fluid and open. The story unfortunately introduces Stephanie in West Side Story lyrical terms as the wonderful dancer Tony wants to meet and Gorney is not much of a dancer; she's proficient she can go through the motions but the body is holding back. It takes a while before it's clear that Stephanie is a little climber and show off a Brooklyn girl who gives herself heirs and talks about the important people she comes into contact with in her office job in Manhattan's. Her pretensions to refinement are desperately nippy in high pitched she's a phony Tony spots that but with a drive inside her that isn't phony he spots that too. Gorney wins you over by her small harried tight face and her line reading which are sometimes miraculously edgy and ardent"-PAULINE KAEL

Tony doesn't make her as a try hard until he goes to her Manhattan apartment and meets the douche she's living with.

That being said, in terms of looks and her stuck up attitude she was right for Tony who was fascinated by her. But her dancing stunk up the screen.

[quote]Stephanie is a little climber and show off a Brooklyn girl who gives herself heirs

Heirs? Oy.

Sandy Dennis would have brought that little something extra to the role.

I would have too.

I can't believe nobody has mentioned Charlene Tilton yet! She would've knocked it out of the park!

Why not Bonnie Franklin. She could have tapped to the Bee Gee songs.

Valerie Perrine? She could dance and flash a smile.

Zara Cully would have knocked it out of the park.

Karen Lynn Gorney was at CHILLER in Jersey a few years ago with Donna Pescow and some of the guys.

A young Kathleen Beller reminds me of the very young girl that Jerry Seinfeld dated. Shoshanna something

Was Joyce De Witt not in the conversation for the part of Stephanie, she seems like she would have been a natural choice, ambiguously ethnic looking, could put on airs and I believe had extensive dance training.

Joyce Bulifant would have been fantastic as Stephanie. She would have carried the role to much greater heights than some Karen ever could have.

R170 funny, , but in another dimension I could see this having been another Diana Ross/Billy Dee Williams movie. Or maybe Diana Ross/Clifton Davis. I’ll see myself out

I should have played Stephanie! But without dialogue! Who needs dialogue! We had faces then. And my face could open any door!

Karen Lynn Gorney was one of the most memorable characters on Law & Order. She was a landlord responsible for the death of an infant all the while claiming that she was the victim.

How did she killed the baby? Not providing heat to the building in winter or something?

R177 That was my favorite episode of all time!

[quote]R173 Was Joyce De Witt not in the conversation for the part of Stephanie, she seems like she would have been a natural choice… I believe she had extensive dance training.

This is the most inspired piece of casting in Hollywood history! Joyce was robbed.

I bet Bonnie Franklin FLIPPED when she heard Joyce was under consideration - bursting into the production office to slap execs viciously.

In the end, Bonnie cost them both the role.

The casting drama was further intensified when Linda Lavin said she would take the role only if Stephanie was given two "adult contemporary scat songs" to perform solo at 2001 Odyssey.

It's funny how so many people who watch Saturday Night Fever for the first time think they're going to see a fun disco movie because they're only familiar with the music, but are surprised that the movie is so dark, bleak and cynical.

Karen Carpenter was told at her audition, “No fatties!”

It’s what led to a lot of her notorious problems[bold] : (