What’s the beef between Liza and Lorna always been about?

Because Lorna, while being the conventionally attractive one, is a second class citizen to Liza talent wise.

Sisters at odds with each other.

How strange.

I certainly don't understand it.

[quote]on and off love-hate dynamic... the underlying tension

ALL sisters have a similar dynamic. Beyond that, Lorna has probably had to deal with a lot of Liza's needy mishegoss, which can be exhausting.

R4, it’s absolutely not true that all sisters have that dynamic. That’s not a logical reasoning here, esp given their family history.

People forget that I was molested!

Shishter shtuff .... mind your own bizshnessh!

Blue is pretty.

Lorna was Sid Luft's daughter. Sid was a tough guy.

Liza was Vincente Minnelli's daughter. 'Nuff said.

Also, by the time Judy was in the home stretch during the 60's, Liza was a teenager, starting a career, and more independent than Lorna and Joey who were still kids.

[quote] Blue is pretty.

And Liza IS NOT!!

[quote]Liza was a teenager, starting a career, and more independent than Lorna and Joey who were still kids.

And all three appeared on their mother's weekly variety show on a semi-regular basis.

I like boozy sister better. Bossy sister makes me turn red.

One loved FOLLIES, and the other did not.

Follies!

I don't agree that Lorna is the more attractive one. Even when she was a young woman, she looked like a baked potato. Even if you don't find her beautiful, Liza is striking and more glamorous. Same goes for the voice. She's more successful at selling what she's got. Judy said the same thing: Lorna's got the voice, but Liza's got the "it" factor.

I like the shapes that aren't circles.

Drunk sissy is nice.

Drunk Sissy is my blue.

Mean Sissy always wears red.

Judy's TV show barely lasted one season, and went off the air 5 years before she died.

I think Lorna resented having to become Judy's caretaker while Liza was out looking for a new gay husband- and Joey sat in his room saying, "I like blue". It must have been harrowing; too much for a girl Lorna's age.

What does Michael Feinstein have to say about all this?

What the fuck is going on with Joey? Judy’s addiction really screwed with his wiring and made him into a simpleton with no real chance at a normal life.

Joey lives in a polyamorous relationship with a husband and wife.

I believe R18 is correct. There is a scene in "Me and My Shadows" where Lorna calls Liza pleading for help and Liza just makes some bullshit excuse and hangs up. Lorna was only a child herself and needed love and care, not to be caretaker to her own (let's face it) exhausting mother. Judy was Liza's mother too so she should have shouldered some of the responsibility, but no, she was a stah dahling! Don't get me wrong, I love Liza, but still...

R22, was that a deleted scene? I really don’t remember it.

Mean Sissy and Drunk Sissy no yike each other.

OP “It’s like…”

R21 proof?

R4 Incorrect

[quote]I think Lorna resented having to become Judy's caretaker while Liza was out looking for a new gay husband-

I resemble that remark.

But at least my new father-in-law and I had things in common to bond over.

You mean all this time they could have been friends?

I suspect it might have something to do that Lorna has been sober and stayed sober for a long time and Liza...has not. It's very difficult to be around someone in active addiction period, but if you are an addict not using I would imagine it's really rough. Also, has been mentioned upthread, Lorna had to take care of her mother and deal with her addiction in her childhood, I'm sure she has no interest whatsoever in spending her later years doing exactly the same thing for her older sister. What I'm trying to say is that Lorna probably put up some major boundaries a long time ago with regards to her sister.

R30 that makes sense. I’m fourteen years sober and my older brother is still in his addictions. I finally cut ties with him…he’s so exhausting. In between blaming me, my mother, his exes and his children for his failures, he always managed a “Can you spot me a $20, brah…?”. And our mother was an active drunk until five years ago when she was diagnosed with dementia and I had to put her in a nursing home. Painful but necessary. They were both WORK. AND her drinking accelerated her dementia too. I can’t help him anymore. I never could.

R30 got it. Lorna got sober and stayed sober while Liza has as been on and off- at a certain point a relative, friend or spouse has to separate from the addict. When Liza has been sober, they’re pretty close.

R5 may be right, but she's also the type who punches "esp" into her comments.

Oh, dear.

There is no excuse for determined laziness in these demotic-tongued times.

[quote] Lorna had to take care of her mother and deal with her addiction in her childhood

I know my addiction and my subbstraction!

R5 = gay male who looks at things from afar ....

[quote]What’s the beef between Liza and Lorna always been about?

Liza turned down Lorna's part in Grease 2 and has never let her forget it.

I saw Liza! at the Hollywood Bowl once.

After an ovation she said thanks you people are the only family I've got left. The rest are with the angels.

I was like um, your brother and sister don't count I guess.

Lorna's book is not kind to Liza.

Liza's only appeal is to gay men because she's so easy to do in drag.

Because Lorna was invited to sing backing vocals on Blondie's Eat To The Beat, while Liza was left alone at 54.

Lorna got Judy at her worst, but don’t underestimate the Judy Liza grew up with - crazy bipolar, drunk, pill filled addict.

"Mama, can you hear me?"

Liza got Cabaret and Arthur.

Lorna got Where The Boys Are '84.

[quote]What’s the beef between Liza and Lorna always been about?

Isn't their relationship similar to that of Barbara Streisand and her sister Roslyn Kind?

Their careers are, R44, not their relationship. That’s cause Barbra isn’t a needy train wreck like Liza, and it’s much easier to ignore Roslyn. Sis is on payroll and accepts her fate.

[quote]What’s the beef between Liza and Lorna always been about?

Curtains.

[quote] Curtains.

In the breakfast nook?

R44, Not remotely. Roz and Barbra are not alcoholics and have never been estranged by both of their own accounts. Barbra made Roz financially secure as well decades ago.

Usually, it's the younger kids, from the 2nd marriage, who have it easier. In this case, probably not.

Liza was more talented. Liza was probably a lot of drama, repeating the same mistakes, exhausting. In her interviews, she always seems perplexed by her bad marriages to gay men. ("How does this always happen to me?")

Lorna actually loved Peter Allen, though. (Not in a sexual or romantic way, obviously.)

Lorna was exasperated with Liza's substance abuse.

Custody of Joey. Neither wanted him, but Drunk Sissy had a bigger career, so Angry Sissy had to take him.

[quote] Lorna was exasperated with Liza's substance abuse.

And Joey’s posting on Datalounge. She wanted to bedazzle his ass for doing so.

R11 While Liza was living on her own and Lorna and Joey were sneaking Momma’s luggage down the fire escape of the hotel so she could avoid paying the bill for their stay.

R48 is the cleaned up version of R45

Lorna put up with a lot of Liza's shit and it must have been like caring for mama all over again. Good for her for making a life for herself with a husband and kids. Sticking with Liza during her druggie years would have dragged her down. As far as talent goes I've always preferred Lorna's vocals to Liza's rawness but Liza has IT and Lorna does not.

Liza has STAR QUALITY. Lorna has always looked like a housewife from Syosset.

I don't know if Lorna had the same quality mentors as Liza. Without Fosse, Liza might have been reduced to Love Boat and Fantasy Island appearances. Its significant that Hollywood never really knew what to do with her because she was so homely yet Cabaret imagined her as a leading lady.

Who ever heard of a homely movie star

R58, the camera truly loves Streisand's imperfections. Not so with Liza unless the cinematographer is super skillful. She was really unattractive in Lucky Lady, A Matter of time and Arthur. Not so bad in NYNY but you still didn't feel she was a movie star.

[quote] Who ever heard of a homely movie star

Well the mirror does have two faces, and the right face is homely.

Michael Feinstein is Liza's keeper now...

Joey, Liza and Lorna on Judy's Christmas Show

As others have said, being around an active addict is unbearable. At a certain point you just can't deal with it anymore.

“Oh by the way, happy thankssshhhhgiving, everybody!”

....