Marvel brand death is real as “The Marvels” bombs

Comic books.

They’re comic books. Not a “universe.”

Brie Larson has resting cunt face.

She has resting nothing face. Seriously, zero character on that face.

I blame cast diversity.

This dreck was bound to fizzle out. It's just taken longer than I expected.

I admit I liked Iron Man but then you have Wonder Woman and The Flash.

You're box office poison, Miss Larson.

Iron Man is Marvel. Wonder Woman and The Flash are DC.

Marvel should have ended the series with the last Avengers movie, and let it go for awhile. (Although WandaVision was terrific). While they had great casting choices and chemistry in most of their movies, Larson was a terrible choice. Never fit in.

There are all comic book movies r7.

The whole genre is played out.

People are sick and tired of the superhero movies in general. They all have the same ChatGPT produced storyline

What r7 said. Word for word.

I've nothing against Larson. I was astounded, however, at her lack of charisma when I saw "Captain Marvel".

Part of my surprise was how well Marvel, up to that point, chose their leading and supporting casts.

Can’t blame the cast. This superhero shit is boring and repetitive.

Now if only the public would tire of the Star Wars universe…

Overexposed and obvious minor characters getting films. Plus, the whole feminist shit is a turn-off.

Very big spoiler, but it seems Disney may be pivoting to using Fox’s Singer-era X-Men who exist in a parallel universe (the trick for Disney after the Fox purchase would be integrating the X-Men into a MCU where fantastical superheroes already exist, thus eliminating the mutant as “other” theme)

[quote]The whole genre is played out.

The author of the article at OP disagrees:

"No, The Marvels meltdown isn’t about superhero fatigue. It’s about Disney’s overexposure of the Marvel Cinematic Universe brand on Disney+, and those moth holes are beginning to show: Keep what’s meant for the cinema in cinemas, and keep what’s meant for in-homes in the home. Meaning, this whole crossover streaming-into-film master plan isn’t working, nor is it really connected in a jaw-dropping way, and with Ms. Marvel not being one of the OTT services better series (ala WandaVision and Loki season one), there’s a whole quad of fans who either didn’t catch Ms Marvel, or who were too turned off by it that they sure as heck don’t want to see The Marvels.

But more to the point, Marvel Studios, The Marvels — with its crossover streaming series blah-blah — looks like it was built to be seen in homes, not to get audiences off the couch."

I don't know who that foul-looking bitch at the OP is, but get it off my screen!

Remember the scene in Endgame when just the female superheroes and allies lined up to fight Thanos? It was a scene straight out of the Panderverse. There is Panderverse fatigue.

The Echo series will be a two-fer on the checklist.

And it only took so fucking long because people are generally imbeciles.

[quote] Thanks Iger!

He deserves it.

[quote] It’s about Disney’s overexposure of the Marvel Cinematic Universe brand on Disney+, and those moth holes are beginning to show: Keep what’s meant for the cinema in cinemas, and keep what’s meant for in-homes in the home.

I disagree with this; I think it's about casting. The people they're putting in these movies aren't big enough stars, and if they aren't big enough stars you need to add someone at least their counterweight to play a love interest, ie Amy Adams to a green Henry Cavill or Chris Pine to Gal Gadot. You can't bring in these TV actors whom the public may or may not have heard of and say, "Hey! Aren't you excited for Brie Larson and Teyonah Parris and Iman Vellani!" Marvel television is not the problem, because they are bringing famous actors like Tom Hiddleston, Elizabeth Olsen and Jeremy Renner to TV. It does not work the other way! You cannot put nobodies in movies! This is the Chris Rock Jude Law Oscar monologue!

Marvel going woke; Marvel going broke.

Okay, Ron DeSantis.

Marvel fan boys grew up. Simple as that

Go woke, go broke.

[quote]You cannot put nobodies in movies!

Hemsworth was a nobody before Thor. He had a few movies, but his biggest role before Thor was George Kirk in Star Trek 2009 before which he was on Far and Away. Evans had a few bombs and teen movies - he was one more flop away from being Sean William Scott. Tom Holland - nobody. Elizabeth Olsen - biggest claim to fame was being Mary Kate and Ashley's younger sister. Pratt was a pudget actor on a moderately popular tv show before Guardians.

Your thesis does not hold.

I can't stand Brie Larson. They do scientific likeabilty testing on the leads for these movies, don't they? She's such a dud of an actress.

If they try and incorporate the existing Fox X-Men actors beyond Jackman (which I thought was going to be a one-off for Deadpool) — I’ll be done with Marvel.

OFFICIALLY.

R24 I LITERALLY SAID in that very post that if you put unknowns in the lead then you need to balance them out with a star. Thor had Natalie Portman and Anthony Hopkins. Captain America had Tommy Lee Jones. Spiderman Homecoming had Robert Downey Jr. and Michael Keaton. Guardians of the Galaxy had Bradley Cooper and Vin Diesel doing voices. Captain Marvel had Jude Law.

Additionally, I said Elizabeth Olsen going to television was a big deal, not her being cast for the first time when she was not famous. She became famous for Wanda Maximoff and her popularity helped to make Wandavision a hit. Additionally, when she was first cast as Wanda, it was for Age of Ultron which had a giant assembly of famous actors and her lack of fame was not a big deal.

Is English not your first language? Are you legally retarded? Are you allowed to operate a car?

I'm bored of them, frankly.

The original Captain Marvel film with Annette Bening an Jude Law and Ben Mendelsohn as the shapeshifters (Crill?) was good but the recent Disney series with Dannerys.Khalisis Mother Of Dragons and Olivia Colman was not great.

I don't think stars matter for these movies. That said, the reason for that is they're supposed to be big box office no matter what. So, in this case maybe Larson is truly Box Office Poison.

Le Box Office Poisson: That's when French people eat a tin of sardines at the movies.

I’ve been burnt out on Marvel. The only one I’m slightly interested in is Fantastic Four. I’m more excited about X-Men but it won’t be any time soon and they’ll probably fuck it up.

Maybe Disney shouldn't have fired Victora Alonso.

You cannot put nobodies in movies!

Star Wars disagrees.

The Variety article said Alonso wouldn’t be able to fix the problems because they’re coming from Feige and higher up (politely alluding to Iger)

R33 some nobody

Imagine the folks who went to see Tge Amat els thinking it was an adaptation of the Alex Ross Kurt Busiek series

^ The Marvels

MARVELS art

I wonder how Marvel will be viewed in say 5 years. Will the former fans mostly forget about it, like it was a silly phase?

Keep hearing rumor that they’re bringing back the old avengers to try to save it. RDJ etc.

The sad part is that apparently it's not a bad movie, people are just exhausted by all of it.

I saw both "Wanda Vision" and the "Ms. Marvel" tv series. They were both good. The problem is that when I look at this I wonder why it isn't on TV so I have to agree with that reviewer that said that Disney's TV shows are diluting the brand.

Tony Stark was making recordings and images of himself throughout his lifetime.

"Oh, this is how they're going to bring him back" was my first thought both when, in Avengers: Endgame, at the beginning when he's speaking to Pepper Potts by recording it into that burnt-up Iron Man helmet and after his funeral when he recorded that image and message for his daughter.

They'll present him that way and find some way for him to interact through his recordings in "real time".

The whole multiverse is how they're bringing all of them back - RDJ, ScarJo (maybe not after she threatened to sue Disney), Evans - as many as they can muster.

This entire phase 5 and 6 are moving toward Avengers Kang Dynasty and Secret Wars which is about bringing the greatest heroes back to fight. Also, in theory, it would allow them to reset EVERYTHING and reboot.

If they try and bring RDJ back he is going to absolutely rape them in contract negotiations. I can't think of any other case where an actor has had so many cards in his hand.

I saw The Marvels yesterday and thought it was good, not great. It was definitely better than the third Ant-Man movie, which was an ugly, incoherent mess. Brie is fine.

Superhero fatigue is definitely a thing. But it's Marvel's fault it happened by pumping out too many movies and TV shows, all of which were of wildly inconsistent quality. When a franchise feels like homework, something is wrong.

Next year, the only film currently scheduled is the third Deadpool movie. This would be a good time to reassess the plan going forward and make some hard decisions. I would pretty much cancel everything on the slate, because nothing planned seems like it would reverse the decline. Give the franchise a few years to rest and then reboot with the X-Men at the center.

I hate those fucking comic book movies.

I think it's a combination of general super-hero fatigue and lack of quality. This movie didn't have an engaging story or characters at all. I watched it last night. I felt like I had seen every fucking scene a dozen time in previous Marvel movies already. Everything, from story, plot, dialog to visual and audio special effects... it was all so damn by the book.

I felt pity for Samuel Jackson. He phoned it all in. And I cannot blame him because all he did was exposure. (I guess it was an easy pay. check)

Put a chick in it and make it lame and gay!

WB/DC is also over.

I saw it last night. I enjoyed it. I think Marvel fanboys hate female leads.

Her first Marvel movie did over a billion bucks…so, there goes your box office poison theories. I like her. That said, I’d never see another Marvel movie.

Every single one of those movies are the most unbelievable dreck. The 'universe' was engineered not by a creative but by a Harvard bean counter to ensure a system of endless, looping 'narratives' (complete with prequels and sequels) so that they could keep making money ad infinitum. Kevin Feige is a hack who was rejected from USC FIVE time before he finally wore them down. Scorsese was right- they're not films....and anyone who wants to discuss their perceived merits is a hookwinked idiot. These stupid franchises have done more harm to the industy that *anything* else in last 20 years and I will dance on their fucking grave, every last one of them.

Re: WB/DC

I thought new regime had the right idea, David Zaslav says he wants a Superman movie one year, then a Batman, then a Wonder Woman, etc

But when James Gunn started unveiling his Superman castings, aside from the leads, he introduced all these secondary and tertiary characters

That tells me he’s trying to Kevin Feige-ize DC (he after all is a Marvel boy)

Given the widespread discussion now of Marvel’s errors, I wonder if they will do a course correction before production begins

I think a lot of it is just Marvel Fatigue. It's been everywhere for too long, people want something new.

Scorsese said what everyone with taste had always thought about these movies.

When will Scorcese start listening to what anyone with taste says about Leonardo DiCaprio?

Sorry if this has already been said but there's no real incentive to go to the cinema to see these movies as they'll be on Disney Plus soon enough.

[quote]Marvel going woke; Marvel going broke.

That’s such bullshit. Black Panther: Wakanda Forever was the 2nd highest grossing film of 2022. Featuring an almost exclusively cast of Black women playing superheroes.

You actually can make a superhero film where all of the characters are Black woman and it will still be a huge success and white men will keep their mouths shut and not call it “woke” if it’s actually really good. Wakanda Forever was really good.

Superhero Insanity 1990 - 2023 RIP 🙏🏻

I’m so glad the bubble has finally burst. These Marvel movies are incredibly lazy, formulaic and empty piles of nothing. No real substance. They look ugly as well; the same horrible desaturated, muddy cinematography that’s ruined Hollywood output the past 15 years or so.

[quote] I thought new regime had the right idea, David Zaslav says he wants a Superman movie one year, then a Batman, then a Wonder Woman, etc

David is full of shit and sunk the company into the ground and Gunn was their fourth choice to run things. He’s a flop and a pedo weirdo.

They keep trotting out these movies like it’s 1999.

Younger generations don’t go to movies like the past generations, half their viewing time is spent on video games. Because of streaming, there’s a LOT more to watch, and not enough hours in the day, especially if you’re holding down two jobs to keep a roof over your head!

[quote] They look ugly as well; the same horrible desaturated, muddy cinematography that’s ruined Hollywood output the past 15 years or so.

I am not generally a fan of Marvel but I have NEVER heard this criticism of it before; most people cite Marvel’s colorfulness as the reason it succeeded over the Zack Snyder DC films.

You most likely just gave glaucoma.

[quote] Younger generations don’t go to movies like the past generations

We are talking about a franchise that was doing phenomenally well as recently as last year.

Tell me R62, how many hours did you stand in line to watch The Exorcist - the original one?

[quote] I am not generally a fan of Marvel but I have NEVER heard this criticism of it before; most people cite Marvel’s colorfulness as the reason it succeeded over the Zack Snyder DC films.

[quote] You most likely just gave glaucoma.

You most likely have, by your own admission, never watched them.

Plenty of people are critical of the shitty ass cinematography.

One of many articles about it. Read and learn.

The person who wrote that article wants Marvel movies to look like literal cartoons and edited a film still (bottom) to show you what he wants it to look like

I liked Loki (the series). Not very into superhero movies. That Huddleston is hot as f (to me) does help but isn't the only reason.

Comic book movies that try to look like actual cartoons tend not to be held in the highest esteem

Larson hasn't done a single worthwhile project since winning an Oscar (is it 8 years ago now?). She looks like a real idiot gussied up in that captain suit and you can tell she's fucking feeling herself. She was only ever interesting in small indie things.

A well-loved superhero movie like Superman shot by legendary Geoffrey Unsworth is incredibly washed out and neutral (in the 70s fashion) except for Superman’s costume.

Another well-loved comic book movie, Batman Returns, had incredibly dark cinematography.

Warner Bros. believed that that movie’s underperformance was due to its visual darkness and decided, like you, that a comic book movie should be incredibly bright and colorful. They replaced Tim Burton with Joel Schumacher.

[quote]Larson hasn't done a single worthwhile project since winning an Oscar (is it 8 years ago now?). She looks like a real idiot gussied up in that captain suit and you can tell she's fucking feeling herself.

LOL how do you mean?

I think it’s creator fatigue. Dr. Strange, Ant-Man, Iron Man, Thor, none of their final films were satisfying. Plot driven, get a kid in there dreck. Or multiverse stories - which usually undermines plot because it signals that almost anything can become undone. How do you raise the bar & the stakes when you’ve had a film that literally killed off half the universe? Not with Kang, a villain no one has heard of or cares about, even before the actor’s domestic violence charges. They need better writing and character development infinity stones.

IMO, it is mostly fatigue and the fact that they can't really one-up Thanos snapping half the universe away. They shot their load and it made them a ton of money. But it's hard to build tension for threats past Endgame. The Multiverse is too big to care about, as they "prune" entire timelines left and right in the Loki series (which was concluded very well a few days ago). So, what is there to really care about anymore? Obviously, it's okay to have 400 different types of energy blasts and flying characters in comics, and the movies may be decently made, but it doesn't translate well for marketing purposes. It's just really hard to care anymore. I didn't even watch Secret Invasion and I LOVED Winter Soldier's spy thriller feel. And as expected, it's all doing poorly. I actually really like what Netflix is doing and investing in well-made mid-budget films (Reptile or the Killer) that major studios have completely given up on, horror, shows with attractive gay twinks, adult animation/anime, and amazingly ORIGINAL sci-fi, in the form of Dark, 1899, Bodies, and the highly-anticipated upcoming Rebel Moon.

Once again Brie Larson does not have IT. She is not a movie star. She's not even a good actress, she just lucked out in a very weak Oscar year.

It has nothing to do with name presence. Covid really fast tracked inevitable. Couple that with superhero movie fatigue—you have a box office bomb. Who what’s to pay 30 bucks for movies and popcorn when you can sit in the comfort of home and watch your beautiful flat screen tv of endless movie options. And you also don’t have to worry about being shot to death by the latest incel with a gun trying to make spree shooting history.

I actually think Wakanda Forever is an incredible film and one of the rare sequels that is just as good as the first. From a critical perspective it is a very very good film. However I am disheartened that they used the first black major male superhero to make all the women the heroes. This man tragically died young from cancer and you don’t replace the protagonist with another black man. Look at the dam poster. It’s 3/4 women. What message is being sent.

[quote]Marvel brand death is real

Marvel brain death is real

Computer generated crash and boom images- that’s what you get out of Hollywood these days. I saw the Scorsese film last night- very real human drama focused on the dark side of our natures- too long and a bit self indulgent I thought, but about real people doing real things. It’s the exception for Hollywood these days. Whether comic book films or other action and fantasy: crash, bang, boom, snore. It’s no more interesting than the effects in ads.

R66 if you think the top picture is better than the bottom you either have no sense of aesthetics or you’re just being contrarian. It’s a highly valid criticism that has been levelled at the industry for years now. It’s certainly not just Marvel doing it. Go compare the first two Harry Potter movies to number three onward. By the last ones, you could hardly see what was happening on screen. The colours were desaturated to an extreme degree, contrast was almost nonexistent and the lighting so low that the resultant picture looks like mud.

For someone who isn’t a rabid fan, my issue is the confusion. There are way too many shows and movies. And the films run over 3 hours. That doesn’t make it good.

It’s all so confusing. To much.

The same, sadly, is happening with Star Wars.

Boredom is setting in.

I agree that digital cinematography has created incredibly muddy looking films. Scorcese himself is guilty of this in Killers of the Flower Moon. Films are no loner lit so that a bright white highlight gives the performers crisp edges like in the stills of Poison Ivy and Catwoman. I saw Raiders of the Lost Ark in theaters this spring and it was stunning. The DP was Douglas Slocombe who begin his career in black and white at Ealing. Then I saw Indy 5 which was one of the darkest, muddiest, most visually unpleasant films I’ve seen in a theater. There is no comparison to well-lit celluloid.

That being said, the Marvel films are not particularly bad with some exceptions like Quantumania.

And this still would look even more horrible brightened up because of the absence of white highlights.

This still from Bram Stoker’s Dracula with a similar balance of warm and cool colors is vastly superior to the “improved” Marvel still due to white highlights.

Iron Man was the best Marvel film. I watched Agents of Shield on ABC and loved it. Also loved Agent Carter.

The first Captain America was interesting.

The rest have been just sort of meh. I've lost interest in most things Marvel over the years. And don't even get me started on DC's Superman. How many fucking times must we make films about that guy? The story is always the same fucking thing no matter who plays him and it's so boring that only Kryptonite can stop him so we have to deal with that every single fucking film.

[quote]However I am disheartened that they used the first black major male superhero to make all the women the heroes. This man tragically died young from cancer and you don’t replace the protagonist with another black man. Look at the dam poster. It’s 3/4 women. What message is being sent.

Oh , well I'm assuming this is one of the White men that was bound to have a problem with Wakanda Forever! In the comics, Shuri WAS the successor to T’Challa as the Black Panther. It would’ve been pretty fucked up to deny her that role just because she was a woman. And amazingly, that movie had an almost 100% Black female cast and it was still a massive hit, so everyone can fuck off with their complaints of “woke-ism” because the movie stayed faithful to the source, they made an excellent sequel, and a very small minority of racists and incels had a problem with it!

Marvel needs to invest in their villains as they do their heroes.

Who the fuck is Dar-Benn?

Notice how the hits have good, fleshed out villains like Namor, Wanda, High Evolutionary.

Whats up with that cheap looking costume she's wearing ?

We need Deadpool 3 to fix this problem.

Wade will flash his butt (in a flashback) and everything will be okay again.

I'm surprised it took this long. Fuck. Granted, while I don't think Marvel films will be as consistently highly successful, I wouldn't announce the brand death. I'm sure there will still be some Marvel films that do big, profitable business. But the relative flops and "meh" performance movies will be more numerous.

It may not be the reason, but Brie Larson IS a piece of wood.

She is named after cheese!

They seem to be trying to repeat the original formula - a series of films each focussed on a hero with supporting cast, build up to the Avengers coming together, gradually build up a major villain and then mash it all together in a huge satisfactory epic. It worked amazingly well the first time. However, they have lost their trajectory - the new big villain, Kang, doesn't appear that menacing (regardless of the tricky Majors situation), and has already had way more screen time than Thanos ever did and has been handily defeated by Loki and Antman, of all characters, in projects that bizarrely jettisoned most of what made those particular characters popular and enjoyable to begin with.. The whole time variants/multiverse business is not clearly laid down - are they the same or not? Meanwhile they are simultaneously setting up one or more space opera plots (Eternals, Secret Invasion) that seem quite separate. They have neglected their core demographic (young males) for the next generation heroes, with too many Disney princess heroines (Shuri, Lionheart, Ms Marvel, Monica Rambeau, the obnoxious Cassie Lang, America Chavez, Kate Bishop/Hawkeye, little sister Widow and others), some of whom are better than others, but they have not really developed any young male equivalents - they needed more of a balance. They should have maybe have gone the other way and set up a series of Avengers movies, where new characters could be added and the hit ones spun off into solo stories, while having a much clearer sense of direction for the main big villain plot (not Kang, or at least not this Kang).

All this has made me feel a lot of sympathy for Brie Larson. Ok maybe not a whole lot, but some.

What a shitty position she's been stuck in.

The million or more per film position?

Marvel is probably the best example, but cinema in general is now in the throes of storytelling entropy.

R96 haha. I like that. Can I copyright it?

"Pure storytelling entropy" is my new go-to comment.

Who above the age of 16 takes any of these movies seriously?

Taken seriously - in what sense? I'm not understanding your question.

Who is Brie Larson related to?

Jonathan, R101

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