Cognitive dissonance: LGBTQ+ people explain how they can support Palestinian side in conflict

Fuck off, OP. How many threads on this are you going to keep making on this? Jesus.

[quote]As a trans woman who's in support of a free Palestine living in North America

And there's no point even reading what this person has written.

OP, are you old? Seriously: there is no "cognitive dissonance" here except from older Americans. Even most of the Arab world, save for Iran, despises Hamas. The US is the *only* major nation that's always supported Israel over Palestine, despite them engaging in active apartheid and occupying Palestine's territory. (The NYT may describe these incursions as "settlements," but other papers correctly describe them as "occupations.")

And have you seen *anything* stated by either Biden or Blinken recently? They KNOW they fucked up by offering "total" support of Israel, particularly since the Palestinian body count now includes 2,000 children. Hell, even most *Jews* don't support slaughtering innocent Palestinian children, and doing so outside of the Gaza Strip (as Israel's already doing) is beyond the pale.

Supporting Palestine has LONG been the progressive stance. Israel occupied Gaza for 17 years and refused to even consider a two-state solution, and now both sides are paying dearly.

You know when I took European history in college I always wondered how left-leaning socialists were initially the Nazi Party's largest supporters...looks like we're getting to see a similar version play out in 2023.

Queer’s Pronouns in Israel: She/Zir/Them

Queer’s Pronouns in Palestine: Was/Were

The only cognitive dissonance here is with conservatives who can't grasp that queers can have empathy for dying people even if they might wish us harm.

This war has really stirred up old Att Manscher.

[quote]Palestine is not Hamas.

To me, that's like saying that the majority of the people in the Confederacy weren't slave owners, which some people do to try to whitewash the collective guilt of the South.

[quote]queers can have empathy for dying people even if they might wish us harm.

But see, that's not empathy. That's just mental illness.

NUMBER OF JEWS IN EGYPT - : 10 (TOTAL POPULATION: 100 MILLION) JORDAN : 0 (10M) SAUDI ARABIA - : 0 (34M) LEBANON « : 100 (7M) SYRIA -* : 0 (17M) IRAQ - : 4 (39M) IRAN * : 8.300 (83M)

NUMBER OF ARABS IN ISRAEL = : 1.9M (9M). WITH FULL CIVIL RIGHTS.

Sure, Israel is an apartheid state. Lol.

Maybe the cognitive dissonance is gay people supporting either side in a religious war when religions hate our guts.

R11 We had a gay cantor at our wedding 36 years ago and a gay Rabbi officiated at my youngest son’s bar mitzvah.

Of course, the orthodox and the ultra orthodox are another story.

Oh, fuck that. Even though Ultra Orthodox Jews consider homesexual sex to be a techinacal sin, there is absolutely NOTHING in Jewish law that calls for punishment by death for it, or literally any punishment at all. Nothing in Jewish law suggests that punishment for ANY sin be be doled out by man. Yeah, I don't know...obviously there have been psychopathic Jews, as there have been homicidal nuts in every walk of life, but there's no doctrine prescribing it in Judaism like there is in Islam—that's the difference. There is no concept of "righteous murder" in Judaism.

The funniest shit is the Palestinians tearing down the rainbow flags at the protests.

They hate you.

They have the same ideology as the Republicans these liberals in this article despise.

If you support Palestine, then the same mentality should apply to Evangelical Christians in the US.

I think it’s race. The “brown people” don’t know any better than to be bigots. But fuck White Christians!

It makes zero sense to me.

R14 It's true. Because, apart from Jews, the only REAL ethnic cleansing that's happened in the Middle East has been of Christians. Crickets from the left.

[quote]The funniest shit is the Palestinians tearing down the rainbow flags at the protests.

Black and hispanic communities tend to be more conservative on LGBT acceptance than white. So I cheer when the police gun them down. Blue lives matter!

[quote]the only REAL ethnic cleansing that's happened in the Middle East

So one of the largest ethnic cleansings going on in the world right now, the mass murder and expulsion of the Palestinians, which is remorseless and closer to completion every year, doesn’t count/is invalid because it’s Jews that are doing it. Got it.

All Lives Matter!

R10 is that accurate and, if so, can you supply a link?

I'd love to use that info if it's correct.

R13 Fuck what? Of course the orthodox or the ultra orthodox don’t murder gays. I didn’t think mentioning the obvious was required.

R17 Oh, give it up. Palestinians attacked Israel. They targeted and murdered civilians including children, the elderly and Holocaust survivors. They raped and kidnapped.

But Israel isn’t supposed to respond because, you know, Jews.

If you say there is "ethnic cleansing" without understanding that Israel does everything to minimize civilian casualties including pleading with the local population to evacuate before an attack - you're an antisemite.

The end.

You're the anti semite OP. Mental illness in more ways than one. You must have been stroking your dick when Hamas was attacking the Jews.

Have people been in a coma for the last 5 years when JK Rowling has been denounced a fascist for saying male rapists shouldn't be transferred to women's prisons on saying 5 simple words?

These people are ideological. They have grounding in reality.

"My religion is less homophobic than yours!"

I don't think any level of homophobia is acceptable. Maybe that's just me, though.

R20 "Some Israeli Jews also hate LGBTQ+ people and would kill them if they could."

R25 is right, Israelis are well known for their murderous homophobia.

R26 And their world famous pork tenderloin.

Israeli government advances legislation for same-sex partners of fallen soldiers

The initiative follows the death of Sagi Golan, an IDF officer killed in Kibbutz Be'eri, as his partner was not immediately recognized as a widower

The Israeli parliament, the Knesset, approved in a first reading legislation that would recognize same-sex partners of fallen Israel Defense Forces (IDF) soldiers. The initiative follows the death of Sagi Golan, a member of the LGBTQ+ community and an officer who was killed while defending Kibbutz Be'eri from Hamas.

His partner struggled at first to receive formal recognition as a spouse, but the Israeli Defense Ministry said it would already interpret the existing law as including same-sex partners. The couple intended to get married on October 20.

"The Ministry of Defense interprets in practice the Law on the Families of Soldiers Who Died in the Campaign as such that it applies to same-sex couples as well, while examining each case on its own merits," Israeli Defense Minister Yoav Gallant said on October 23.

This came in response to Israel's Knesset Speaker, Amir Ohana, who said that he received complaints from LGBTQ+ soldiers who feared discrimination if the worst happened to them.

"I think that there is great importance and spiritual encouragement to repeat the obvious - that there is no difference between blood and blood and there is no difference between a whole family and its neighbor as far as the rights provided by law are concerned," Ohana wrote to Gallant.

After Golan's death, there was controversary over what an IDF representative informed his partner, saying that he needed to apply to the Defense Ministry to be recognized as a spouse since same-sex marriages were under different legal authorities in Israel.

Israeli lawmaker from the Yesh Atid party and chairman of the LGBT+ caucus in the Knesset, Yorai Lahav-Hertzanu, stressed the importance of this change.

Lahav-Hertzanu said the LGBT+ community is an integral part of Israeli society and that legislation must also include it. The bill is expected to be put to a vote on second and third readings next week and could then be enshrined in the Israeli Legal Code.

I admit, I cried watching this video.

R16 That’s just a whitewashed perception of white people.

More white people vote in anti-LGBTQ politicians and leaders than any other race in the US and even white liberal corporations take money from anti-LGBT groups.

So I dunno what you’re talking about.

LGBTQ would be fucked without blacks and Hispanics as Republicans are majority white and there aren’t enough white Democrats in the US to vote without them.

^ in America, they’d prob also be fucked without the help of the cwazzzyyyy Moozlems too, who have consistently been a reliable D voting block for the last 2 decades.

But hey that’s beside the point - let’s be illogical and retarded cunts and continue pinkwashing the insane and near genocidal civilian death toll in Gaza because of TLV pride baby!! 🌈

R21 is Exhibit A in how the Israel shills are the new “you’re a racist!!” types. They don’t agree with you? You’re an anti-Semite by definition.

They also seem to conveniently forget that the average Palestinian probably has more “Semitic” blood than your average Israeli, lol. Rotten morons to the core.

[R21] is Exhibit A in how the Israel shills are the new “you’re a racist!!” types. They don’t agree with you? You’re an anti-Semite by definition.

Not everything its antisemitism, no. But if you think Israel doesn't have the right to defend itself after a depraved and barbaric terrorist attack where children were tortured, mutilated and raped in front of their parents and burned alive, then you are an anti Jewish racist.

[quote]They also seem to conveniently forget that the average Palestinian probably has more “Semitic” blood than your average Israeli, lol. Rotten morons to the core.

OMG that's a new defence of anti Jewish racism! Not heard that one before. Did you see someone with a flag emoji tweet that?

R34, you’re only proving my point further. Your statement is completely illogical. That example still, in of itself, isn’t an example of “anti-Semitism”, no matter how much you contort yourself into an illogical pretzel.

Of course, I’m sure you vehemently disagree with the assertion that the (arguably indiscriminate and non-targeted) bombing of Semitic and Islamic peoples in Gaza is neither anti-Semitic nor Islamophobic whatsoever. I’m sure of course you’re being as objective as possible.

We get it OP. You hate muslims. Yup, hate 'em you do. Hate, hate, hate. Thread and thread and thread and thread about your hate of muslims. Give it a rest and go take a walk outside. Or are the muslims out there waiting for you?

R35, holding Israel to a higher standard to all other countries, simply because is anti Jewish is clear cut racism.

Other than that it's not worth engaging with you.

One thing has become clear in the aftermath of October 7th: DL’s antisemites hate to be called out for their antisemitism, as they go on and on, absurdly and ineffectively claiming they are just misunderstood.

According to r34’s “logic”, anyone who questioned or disagreed with America’s military response after 9/11 is not only anti-American but also anti-Christian (given they were are likely are the majority of the US).

On that note, it is telling that posters like this always intertwine the state of Israel with only one ethnicity / one religion.

R37, who is holding Israel to higher standards than other countries, and which other countries? Additionally, and importantly: do those other countries hold themselves to the world out as bastions of freedoms / democracy, and having a “moral” military, etc.? I look forward to your answers.

^ and on that note, ANY nation that claims to be adhering to democratic norms, values etc *SHOULD* be held to higher standards. People like r37 think Israel’s comparison point should be Saudi Arabia.

[quote] where children were tortured, mutilated and raped in front of their parents and burned alive, then you are an anti Jewish racist.

R34 happen to have a source confirming what you said, or are you just……making stuff up? Including the ‘in front of’ part.

And we have the return of the "there's no proof" troll at R42.

I didn't know it was obligatory to take a side. It's just a humanitarian disaster.

I don't support either side.

R43 I’m asking for a source. There have been many instances on here of people just saying things that turn out to be very exaggerated versions of things they saw online, with a lot of different personal embellishments for effect. If it’s true, and reliably sourced, then that’s a different matter, but if it’s not……then it’s not. And if it is true it shouldn’t be difficult to provide a source.

R11, the gay and lesbian community have full and equal rights in Israel, you should know that. Gays and lesbians have equal rights and are protected by law in probably 100% of the Judeo-Christian Western countries. Islamic countries, not so much. Jews, yes religious ones, have been at the forefront of civil rights of all kinds for well over a century in the United States. Many Christians have been involved with in these movements as well. Hell the abolitionist movement in England and the US started in the pulpits and churches of Christian churches.

Meanwhile, we have imams in mosques around the world, even in the west, calling on muslims to murder their Jewish, Christian, Hindu, Buddhist, gay and lesbian, etc neighbors....and we are so cowardly that few say anything about it.

In case you didn't notice, R11, Martin Luther King, Jr had "Reverend" before his name. He was a Baptist minister. So did reverend (imam) farakhan. However, for years, every Sunday evening, imam farakhan's sermons on the radio were about how evil the blue-eyed devils and the Jews were. A few decades later many black elected officials in DC happily took photos with him. He never disavowed his hatred of White people and his special hatred of Jews. That special hatred is in the koran, btw.

R36, I think OP's point is that islam is an existential threat to gays and lesbians, blatantly and proudly so. It is a very important discussion. How can the LGBTQ+ community support an ideology that calls for our extermination? Why aren't they calling out Islamic countries for their horrific human rights record, especially when it comes to gay, lesbian and women's rights? It is fucking mind boggling.

R47, the only place you are hearing that have imams in mosques in the US “calling on muslims to murder their Jewish, Christian, Hindu, Buddhist, gay and lesbian, etc neighbors” is on FOX news and in your and cholesterol- and opioid-addled brain.

R47, “ Gays and lesbians have equal rights and are protected by law in probably 100% of the Judeo-Christian Western countries.”

LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

You are beyond retarded. Like severely stupid. You might want to review the laws of our 50 states and come back to us on that. Even countries like India and Pakistan are more progressive on certain LGBT related rights than the US as a whole is.

^ then to add, the record number of legislation in the last year with the *express purpose* of harming LGBT folks

R47, are gays and lesbians “protected” on the basis of their sexual orientation or gender identity, at any federal or constitutional level in the US? Yes or no.

Actually, R50, there are many videos online of these sermons taking place. If you are really interested in the truth, which I doubt, search MEMRI on YouTube.

For fuck sake, for years imam farakhan broadcast radio sermons from Chicago every Sunday evening filled with racism and Jew-hatred for years in the 70s. I know, I used to listen to them. I started to learn than that one must know one's enemies better than they know themselves.

List of terms young people can’t define anymore:

1. Genocide

2. Ethnic cleansing

3. Privilege

4. War crimes

Religions don't like us. We all know it.

The Nation of Islam js basically conspiracy theory-driven hotep bullshit with a patina of Islam and a little bit of Scientology thrown in. Deeply antisemitic and homophobic, but not actually “Islamic” in any meaningful sense. No Muslims would actually consider what Farrakhan is selling to be actual Islam, just as no Jews consider Black Hebrew Israelite doctrine to be a form of Judaism.

Hamas believe that Israel has no place on THEIR land. And this intolerance makes them a cause celebre among the far left?!?

R11 Apparently some have not been paying attention to Israel in recent years. The Ultra-Orthodox parties/factions in Israel are completely anti-LGBTQ and the Likud party has signed on. As Obama said this week... first step to peace in the region is to acknowledge that everyone's hands are dirty.

Islamic extremists and the Ultra-Orthodox are both an existential threat to gay folk.

R3 is a lie.

R60 a broad denial there.

Start with one fact: Israel no longer supports any "two state" solution now. Is that not true?

R61, the Israelis know this is not possible with a group of people calling for the murder of all Jews in Israel and the world. They've learned their lesson after being attacked by muslims several times. October 7th was the last straw.

R62 Sadly, it's not the last straw, just another piece of miscalculation in a long series. The retribution (understandable... Oct 7th was a horrific event) may satisfy some primordial hunger... but, like so many Israeli events, has a long-term negative impact on the state of Israel and its survival.

The colonization of the West Bank was temporarily satisfying to many in Israel, but it led to where we are today - with most of the world seeing Israel as an apartheid regime. Israel's response to Oct 7 has lost it support and damages its long-term existence. Which is exactly what Hamas intended.

But what can one say about a country who has elected a corrupt thug like Netanyahu multiple times.

Be smarter. Figure out the future, not the anger sitting in your belly today.

R63 Before Israel, Jews were hated for being stateless. A big push for Zionism came from Jews convincing themselves that if they'd just get a state of their own like everyone else, they'd finally be respected globally and people would stop hating them so much. Jews have been hated for being capitalists and for being socialists; they're hated for being rich but before then they were hated for being poor. They've been hated for being too religious and for assimilating too well. The world projects whatever the worst ills of polite society happen to be at the time onto the Jews. Currently, the worst thing you can be in polite society is a white colonialist and a racist, so that's what Jews are. Of course, before then, they were hated for not being white enough and for being nationless burdens. After the Holocaust, they were derided for just "letting themselves be led into gas chamber like sheep", and now they are hated for defending themselves.

There is no "winning public approval" for Jews, don't you get that? The goalposts will NEVER stop moving.

How exactly is Israel an “apartheid regime?” if that were the case, would they be letting any Palestinians live in Israel?

Logic. It's your friend.

South Africa, the flagship state for apartheid in the last 100 years, did not "expel" the Africans who had lived there pre-colonial times. "Letting Palestinians live in Israel" discloses something very fundamental to the problem.

^ which is much nicer than what they should do. What they should do is exterminate the fuckers.

R66 Ok, so speaking of Gaza specifically—which specific actions by Israel do you believe constitute an apartheid ?

R24 You are correct. However, some religions have made progress.

Using “apartheid” is not only a big lie and cultural appropriation, it is almost always used by professional victims who are blissfully unaware that there are over 200,000 Black Israelis who the “Palestinians” have pledged to “drive into the sea.” Btw, there are no Black “Palestinians.”

^ there are no Black “Palestinians,” except the ones charred by the IDF.

Photos? Were they also beheaded?

R72 How does that grab you, sicko?

And yes. They WERE beheaded.

You're after the wrong guy, cowboy. I was addressing the Jew hater @ R71.

Oop. My apologies, R74. I just had a pineapple margarita on an empty stomach. I might be a little too fired up 😬.

No harm, no foul. Have a great night.

Imagine being as stupid, desperate and/or as intellectually dishonest as the asshat at r54, using Louis Farrakhan sermons from the 70s, as an example of how imams in mosques in the US in 2023 are “calling on muslims to *murder* their Jewish, Christian, Hindu, Buddhist, gay and lesbian, etc neighbors”.

As r57 correctly points out, the Nation of Islam is to mainstream Islam in America as Black Israelite doctrine is to mainstream Judaism.

You dumbass dinosaurs are not only old but also clearly devoid of any real knowledge or wisdom.

Oh look, a new hasbara line, demonstrated by the tard at r70 (who also has an obsession with including dumb and irrelevant commentary in its sig line). Now apparently Palestinians are targeting not just Israelis but specifically Black Israelites.

You can’t make this shit up 🙄

I hear some head banging from the rubber room. Must be that new brain dead troll who accuses everyone of being the "Hasbara troll."

[quote] Were they also beheaded?

Come on now, we all know atp that Israel lied about the ‘beheadings’ and that anything that did happen like that was caused by rockets, which obviously now has occurred to a far greater degree in Gaza, so if you’re upset by that then you should (logically) be far more upset by this.

[quote] What they should do is exterminate the fuckers.

I have not seen a single pro Palestine commenter on this site call for the wholesale genocide of Israelis, which you pro-Israel crowd say that we do. And yet when one of your own calls for a genocide / wholesale murder of millions of people you all just skip past the comment (actually comments plural it’s twice on this thread at least) as if it doesn’t exist, or else none of you care. How absolutely disgusting.

R74 It's a little like arguing with born-again Evangelicals, Islamo-fascists, or flat Earth believers. You guys just can't understand the truth of these statements:

Objecting to the actions and choices of the IDF is not, in any way, "anti-Jewish".... it's anti-war, anti-violence.

Objecting to everything about Hamas is not, in any way, "anti-Palestinian"

Do fuck right off, R81. Your pathetic attempt to smear me as an Evangelical Christian is a simplistic straw man worthy of a seventh grader. You're like a North Korean bureaucrat, obsessed with party purity. I must executed because I have a different point of view. You want to enjoy a "Palestinian" roof party? Feel free, but don't expect me to fall into line under the intellectual straight jacket of political correctness.

“I have not seen a single pro Palestine commenter on this site call for the wholesale genocide of Israelis, which you pro-Israel crowd say that we do. And yet when one of your own calls for a genocide / wholesale murder of millions of people you all just skip past the comment (actually comments plural it’s twice on this thread at least) as if it doesn’t exist, or else none of you care. How absolutely disgusting.”

Thank you. 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽

R82 Not purity, my friend. Ethics. Ethics that last longer than tribalism.

Maybe actually take a moment and look at what you are saying.

^ in literally each thread on Israel/Palestine in the last month, I have seen multiple comments calling for wholesale genocide or extermination of Palestinians, and rarely are they called out / redlined / etc.

Tikkun olam folks.

Three posts attacking me less than five minutes after my post. LOL. Yeah, I'll look at MY behavior. Oh my. Yes, you're definitely the ethical one...go away, cunt, and take your swarm of socks with you.

[quote] Fuck off, OP. How many threads on this are you going to keep making on this? Jesus.

Seriously. Same topic ad nauseum.

....but we expect nothing less from the Unfuckable Muppet.

R87 That's very helpful, thanks.

[quote]there are no Black “Palestinians,” except the ones charred by the IDF.

Well, Hamas has/had at least one Black member.

She's not "Palestinian." There are at least 200,000 Black Israelis.

Oh, but haven't you heard, R91? The Zionists secretly sterilized all of them!

Oooga boooga, R92

R24 of course it is. The kind where they kill you is worse.