Bill Maher is such a fucking Zionist

Meaning to him Israel IS a nation of both martyrs and heroes, and Palestine is Hamas. Douche.

OP, fuck off.

Who the fuck cares what Maher says? And who cares what you have to say on the subject, since you shat out "Zionist," you troll.

Grease. Fire.

He's a fucking pot addled dickhead.

I gave up on him long ago. And I'm always embarrassed for his guests. A self satisfied creep.

R2 - grease fire? From a Zionist?

Oh, dear. Zionist alert at R2. FUck off, cunt.

We all know that Zionist is code for k*ke, OP. You, and your ilk, aren't fooling anyone.

He’s a ZIONIST, I tell you! He practically FLAUNTS his love for ZION!

Piss off, R5. A Zionist is another form of right-wing nationalist. One of several million right-wingers anywhere in the world.

Wow, broken clock syndrome. I might have to watch Billo (hey, remember when we called Bill O'Reilly 'Billo'? Does it fit Maher like a cheap suit?) for the first time in years.

He’s only half Zionist.

Shilldo alert!

Half is more than enough, R9.

“Bill, you big ‘ol Zionist you, get over here!”

R12, what's your definition of a Zionist, tedious jokes aside?

[quote]Zionism is a nationalist movement that emerged in the 19th century to enable the establishment of a homeland for the Jewish people in Palestine, a region roughly corresponding to the Land of Israel in Jewish tradition. Following the establishment of Israel, Zionism became an ideology that supports "the development and protection of the State of Israel".

In other words, the good guys.

You think that's still true, R14?

Who is Bill Maher?

Zionists are not the "good guys," R14.

"There was Religious Zionist Party (RZP) MK Orit Struck who said on Sunday that doctors should have the right not to serve people from the LGBTQ+ community if it is against their religious belief and her fellow party member Simcha Rothman, who added that a hotel owner could also refuse to provide a room to a gay couple."

The good guys, R14? Zionists hate gay people.

It was never true. They were never the good guys

Is Bill Maher really that bad? Just because he supports humans over subhumans? So a few thousand gay-hating ragheads got killed. I’m not losing any sleep over it and neither should you. In fact, if the IDF sets some camel jockeys on fire and put it on pay per view, I’d pay to watch it, and probably jerk off to it as well.

I love comments like r20s, when the mask comes off

Simcha Rotman is bad news and * hated* by the left leaning Israelis. Just look at the comments on the Haaretz story about the kibbutzniks killed along with Hamas fighters holding them hostage. The houses were shelled/blasted by the IDF. They basically had no choice. He (Rotman) is responsible for leaving that area so vulnerable and keeping forces up by the West Bank. He went down there to tour the area; commenters said he was scoping out where to put his murderous settlers from the West Bank now that the kibbutz was gone.

What I'm saying is, fucking Netanyahu and his right wingers are not representative of all Zionists and Americans who support Israel are Zionists for the idea, the reality of Israel, not the current assholes in power. Don't get it twisted. Everybody is going a little off and being extreme in their support lately because what else can you do. Not the time for changing horses mid-stream.

The idea was bad from the very start. It was always going to wind up here, it was always about ethnic cleansing and land thievery and ethnic supremacy.

[quote]Why is the Religious Zionist Party obsessed with the LGBTQ+ community? - opinion

So your point is that renowned atheist Bill Maher supports the Religious Zionist party?

[quote]OP: Some liberal he is.

Bill Maher is not a liberal, and never was.

"In fact, if the IDF sets some camel jockeys on fire and put it on pay per view, I’d pay to watch it, and probably jerk off to it as well."

And your TV set would be snickering back at you: get a load of princess tiny meat.

R14 my take is that I approve of the concept of Zionism, but I wouldnt go so far to make an unqualified statement that they're the good guys - I think that overall they're the less worse guys, and would be able to call them "the good guys" minus some the the more extreme elements like the RZP R18 mentions, Netanyahu and some of the settlers. Of course that's true of most politcal movements. Its like Ilhan Omar is not representative of the entire Democratic party either

R21 masks are coming off on both sides

I appreciate balanced comments like R22

I'm trying to remember, it was so long ago. Who was it that led a an unprovoked attack on a big group of young people attending a music festival and then proceeded to slaughter innumerable men, women, children and BABIES living quietly in their communities?

Oh, right.

As a practical matter, Gaza is Hamas. Hamas has all the guns, controls all the money, makes all the decisions. It's essentially 2 million units of cannon fodder as far as Hamas is concerned, and until Hamas is destroyed it will remain that way.

^ That's the stupid shit people say to make this psycho revenge onslaught seem moral and justified to themselves

What is your plan to get rid of Hamas r30? Or should everybody just accept that Hamas is the permanent, totalitarian government of Gaza and everybody just needs to get ready for the next massacre, as Hamas has promised?

[quote]A Zionist is another form of right-wing nationalist.

90% of Jews identify as Zionists and nearly 80% of Jews identify as liberal. So...no. Doesn't check out.

Oh, and additionally, the only group of Jews who across the board identify as zealously anti-Zionist are the Ultra Orthodox—also the only group of Jews who across the board identify as right-wing conservative.

R32/R33, I'd like to see the receipts on your percentages. What Jews where--Israel? Taking Israel as an example, there is no way 90% call themselves Zionists, and I vey much doubt it's as high as 80% who call themselves liberal, but I defer to you, if you can prove it.

R34 "My recent review of the available data shows that about nine in 10 American Jews are more sympathetic to Israel than to the Palestinians. (That compares to about six in 10 of all Americans.) Additionally, 95% of Jews have favorable views of Israel, while 10% have favorable views of the Palestinian Authority -- significantly more pro-Israel than the overall national averages of 71% favorable views of Israel and 21% favorable views of the Palestinian Authority."

(written in 2019)

Re: Israelis and Zionism

"The vast majority of Israelis say Zionism is still relevant today and most define themselves as Zionists, according to a poll released by the Herzl Center Wednesday in honor of Herzl Day, celebrated on the Zionist thinker’s birthday.

Asked to what extent they define themselves as Zionists, with 10 being the most and one the least, about half (51 percent) of the poll’s respondents gave themselves a nine or 10 and 39% ranked themselves from five to eight. Only 11% of Israeli Jews gave themselves a score of one to four. The vast majority of Israeli Jews – 82% – said the idea of Zionism is still relevant, while 9% were unsure and another 9% said Zionism is irrelevant."

"Jews are among the most strongly liberal, Democratic groups in U.S. politics. There are more than twice as many self-identified Jewish liberals as conservatives, while among the general public, this balance is nearly reversed. In addition, about seven-in-ten Jews identify with or lean toward the Democratic Party. Jews are more supportive of President Barack Obama than are most other religious groups. And about eight-in-ten Jews say homosexuality should be accepted by society."

So I apologize for my 80% quote of left-leaning Jews as a net, which was incorrect. Roughly 80% of secular Jews (which makes up the largest group) identify as Democrat or liberal, while roughly 70% of all Jews identify as Democrat or liberal. This is compared to 49% of the general population.

So, R35/R36, regarding the Zionist question, you quote an ultra-right-wing paper like The Jerusalem Post. That's like asking the NY Post if most people favor Trump. Who did they poll? Those favorable to their poll question? And which is it--82% or 90%? It says both. Regardless, the Jews I know in Israel do not favor either Zionism or Netanyahu, and they are not virulently anti-Palestinian.

It's also not much of a news flash to say that most Jews have a favorable view of Jews over Palestinians.

Certainly the majority of American Jews I know would be aghast to be considered aligned with Zionism.

Why angry up the blood listening to Bill Maher’s populist rabble when Thom Hartmann’s podcast is a much more thoughtful 🤔, intellectually soothing alternative? Every week it’s like some kid running into the kitchen sobbing to Mommy that Billy hurt their feelings. Turn him off, dear.

Darling R40, I just happened to turn him on in the last 10 minutes of his show, after a long break from him, and I hear him compare those Anericans who have any sympathy for the Palestinians as those "woke" people who defend drag reading hour. He actually mentioned drag reading hours. He's appalling.

R38 The Jerusalem Post did not conduct the survey itself, it was merely reporting on the results of it. And your personal experience of American Jews is exactly that. This is why we have statistical data.

You do realize don't you that Zionism is not a political party? You can be a Zionist and loathe Netanyahu and the modern Likud party, and you can be an anti-Zionist and lick Netanyahu's taint.

All Zionism means is the support of Jewish self-determination and safety in their ancestral homeland. That's literally it. Any other additional meaning tagged onto it by individuals does not change its definition.

Being anti-Zionism is essentially being against the concept of us as a people having the ability to affirm ourselves, protect ourselves, and continue on in the long term in our original homeland.

Additionally, our faith is NOT Christianity or Islam. It’s an older religion that’s rooted in the nation state concept. Going back to Jerusalem is baked into so many of our prayers that pretending they aren’t intertwined is absurd. The Jews have 613 commandments and nearly half of them require living in Israel to observe.

Judaism is Judeo nationalism while simultaneously a faith. Always has been.

Does that have anything to do with a 2-state solution or Bibi’s tactics and politics? Absolutely not. That’s nuance. You can be pro-Zionist while critiquing the Israeli government. Israeli's do it everyday.

But you can’t be anti-Zionist and simultaneously pro-Jewish. That’s mutually exclusive.

It’s no mistake that every time the world turns against Israel, Jews everywhere are harassed, attacked, and murdered. A strong Israel is the only thing that tells the world Jews deserve to be safe and protected. We are not an expansionist religion like Christianity or Islam. We have never sought to proselytize or convert people or conquer the world. We don’t send missionaries to try and mass convert poor or vulnerable societies. We don’t enslave. We don’t war monger. There has never been a Jewish inquisition or Jewish Conquest. We don’t and never have sought a Jewish world order. All we want is one tiny strip of land the size of NJ to keep what’s left of our people alive and safe.

[quote] We have never sought to proselytize or convert people or conquer the world.

I guess you've never been in NYC when the Jews for Jesus are in full swing or you've never been asked "Excuse me--are you Jewish?" by some right-wing Jewish sect members looking to increase their numbers, all of which is, of course, embarrassing and irritating to most of the Jews I know.

I'm sorry if it bothers you, R42, that most Jews I know tacitly support Israel but absolutely do not consider the definition of Zionism as "support of Jewish self-determination," nor do they conider Israel their "ancestral homeland." And yes, I'm well aware Zionism is not a political movement.

As for your rather absurd statement that "you can’t be anti-Zionist and simultaneously pro-Jewish. That’s mutually exclusive," well, again, that would be new to a lot of Jews I know.

And Zionism isn't just a question of self-determination. It's a claim to that land as theirs because God said so, which is problematic to say the least.

[QUOTE]Who is Bill Maher? —Everyone under 40

This and he's becoming a crotchety old man. The contrarian streak became cancerous. Funny that Howard Stern has mellowed.

Maher is adhering to his fundamental reason for existing in show business, which is to say making a career out of contrariness. The issue I have with him is that he's justifying his political biases as common sense or worse (in the case of his anti-Palestinian stance), morally superior.

R43, the Jesus part is the problem with Jews for Jesus. Jesus=recruitment.

Maher is an atheist, but when the subject of Israel comes up, he sounds like any other reactionary, right-wing Jewish American.

It's the same as when he brings up his other easy-target tropes--wokeness, obesity.

During the strike, and because he can't not just chill and get high without bring performative and recording it, he had Fran Lebowitz over to his house, and they talked for over an hour, and whenever she corrected him about his flatulent opinion on something, he quickly backed down because he knows she's smarter than he is.

And Lebowitz, I'm very sure, would be another Jew who does not consider herself a Zionist, but I suppose that makes her self-hating, right?

* without being performative

R43 "Jews for Jesus" aka Messianic Jews are Christians, not Jews. They are trying to convert people to Christianity, not Judaism. They are reviled the world-over by ACTUAL Jews. And the "right-wing Jewish sect members" asking you if you are Jewish on the street is Chabad, a Hasidic-based Jewish organization that provides religious education and support to Jews of all sects. They are not seeking to convert any non-Jews.

Regarding self-proclaimed "anti-Zionist Jews"—not every Jew is knowledgeable about the Jewish faith, Jewish history, the history and philosophical principles of Zionism (both secular and religious), and the history of Israel as a state. Literally all one has to do to be considered a Jew is be born one. There are plenty of Jews who have never lit a single Hanukkah candle in their life or stepped into a synagogue, who know next to nothing about their heritage or their Jewish ancestors, who could not name a single concentration camp apart from Auschwitz, who couldn't name a single Yiddish writer, etc.

When I was a pain in the ass, self-righteous, radical-left teenager/young adult, I called myself an anti-Zionist without knowing jackshit about it. I did it because I wanted to signal that I wasn't the wrong kind of Jew (different, culturally protective, standing in the way of a Socialist utopia by hanging onto religious identity, demanding of any space in the "anti-racist" sphere). There have been Jews like this for centuries—and they were still inevitably exiled, massacred in pogroms, and sent to death camps. In fact, this describes most of the Jews who were slaughtered on October 7th.

“Literally all one has to do to be considered a Jew is be born one.”

As a non-Jew, this is the part I never understood.

R44 Did you miss the "ancestral homeland" part? I really urge you to educate yourself on the history of the Jewish people and the Jewish diaspora before you waste much more of your time or anyone else's sharing your opinions on what is "problematic" about them.

So, R51, in other words, a Jew who doesn't align with Zionism is merely lacking in knowledge, much as you claim you were, when you were a self-described "pain in the ass, self-righteous, radical-left teenager/young adult."

I guess some people consider turning right-wing as they get older a wiser thing to be. I don't.

Fran Lebowitz, mentioned above, is in her 70s, and she hasn't strayed one bit from being the leftist non-Zionist she's always been.

The Purim story from ancient Persia fits well into seventh-grade notions of “prejudice”: Bad guy notices that Jews are different and therefore contaminating the blood-and-soil, so he decides to get rid of them. It resembles what we now consider right-wing anti-Semitism—and it’s the kind that American Jews, descended as many of us are from survivors of Russian Empire pogroms or the Holocaust, have been taught to recognize.

Hanukkah anti-Semitism, which can rear its head on either the right or the left, is something quite different. It doesn’t demand dead or expelled Jews, at least not at first. Instead it demands the destruction of Jewish civilization. This process requires not dead Jews, but Jews who are willing to give up whatever specific aspect of Jewish civilization is deemed to be uncool.

Of course, Judaism has always been uncool, going back to its origins as the planet’s only monotheism, featuring a bossy and unsexy invisible God. Uncoolness is pretty much Judaism’s brand, which is why cool people find it so threatening—and why Jews who are willing to become cool are absolutely necessary to Hanukkah-style anti-Semitism’s success. In the days of Antiochus, this type of anti-Semitism needed those boys who voluntarily underwent painful genital surgery to prove that Jews weren’t the problem—just the barbarity of Jewish law. During the Soviet era, it needed proud internationalists to prove that Jews weren’t the problem, just the repulsive chauvinism of Jewish national identity—including what we now call Zionism.

The Soviets actually went one better. In 1918, they created an entire branch of their government solely for cool Jews, whose paid job was to persecute the uncool ones. This was called the Yevsektsiya, or the Jewish Sections of the Communist Party, and in their brief and bloody lifespan, one finds the origins of today’s supposedly novel concept: Jews who are of course not anti-Semitic (how could they be? they’re Jews!), but simply anti-Zionist. In the course of not being anti-Semitic and being simply anti-Zionist, the Yevsektsiya managed to persecute, imprison, torture, and murder thousands of Jews, until their leaders were themselves purged.

"Literally all one has to do to be considered a Jew is be born one.”

Catholicism sees its "flock" the same way, which is hugely offensive to any ex-Catholic who has made it a point to not be part of the "flock" of sheep who accept their faith unconditionally or choose not to accept it at all.

[quote] Of course, Judaism has always been uncool, going back to its origins as the planet’s only monotheism, featuring a bossy and unsexy invisible God. Uncoolness is pretty much Judaism’s brand, which is why cool people find it so threatening—and why Jews who are willing to become cool are absolutely necessary to Hanukkah-style anti-Semitism’s success.

Yes, as opposed to all those "cool" Catholics or "cool" Muslims." What tripe.

Tons of DL threads, millions of dollars for media companies, endless hours of contemplating the violent nature of humans in a desolate part of the world. Good gracious, people are exhausting. Society could be focused on pleasuring sexy twinks, glorious architecture, life-changing romantic music, benevolent technology, or better yet noble ideas of nobility and chivalry. But we have to listen to these arguments about culture clashes, suffering and domination over and over and over and over. Mankind deserves its inevitably stupid end.

R58's answer to the Middle East problem: fuck a twink!

R54 I am still as adamantly leftist as I always was—just less of a pain-in-the-ass about it (hopefully) and more educated, reasonable, and nuanced (definitely). I'm also a proud Zionist. Like I said, it's not a political party. I'm a gay (not queer), left-of-liberal, NYC born-and-raised (now Chicago-residing), Bibi-hating, Hamas-hating-more, ZIONIST Jew.

And not that it really matters, but I'd be curious to see exactly where it is you're sourcing this opinion on Lebowitz's supposed lifelong anti-Zionism...

R60, I'm sourcing my opinion on the fact that Lebowitz has stated many times her disdain for what she has called "crazy Jews," and I'm pretty sure that Zionists woud fit that description in her eye.

R56 Catholicism is not also an ethnicity—Judaism is.

So, R62? I'm talking about the belief among the Catholic hierarchy that a Catholic is born Catholic and stays Catholic until they die, unless the extraordinary act of excommunication is placed on them.

R57 Considering Christians and Muslims collectively make up a worldwide population of over 4 billion, as opposed to 15 million Jews, I think it's safe to say which one has lost the popularity contest.

Yes, R64. Who doesn't love the Muslims? All over the world, people are just mad for them.

R63 Catholics are not born Catholics and absolutely no Catholic believes this. They are baptized Catholic and then further confirmed in their religion via a series of six additional sacraments. There is nothing in one's DNA that indicates either Christianity or Islam. Do you REALLY not understand the concept of ethnoreligious groups?

R61 The only thing you ought to be pretty sure of is that Fran Lebowitz would, in no universe, sign off on an imbecile like you speaking for her as a Jew or using her as a token for your antisemitism.

R66, you know nothing about the Catholic hierarchy, which believes in numbers as power and claims as many "souls" to be under its thumb as it can--hence, one is born a Catholic if they have Catholic parents, and baptism solidifies that, which is why the absurd doctrine of limbo was invented for unbaptized Catholic "souls" as a kind of warning and punishment for daring to ignore the first sacrament. Limbo has since been abandoned but everything else holds. Believe it or not; I don't care.

As for R67, sorry your butt hurts that Lebowitz would in no way align herself with Zionism. And that makes her no more a self-loathing Jew as it makes me or anyone else who has no time for such nationalistic thinking as Zionism an anti-Semite. Again, I don't care what you think.

Anyone who doesn't believe in Zionism but believes in a truly equitable two-state solution is an anti-Semite. How convenient.

R69 An equitable, two-state solution does not negate Zionism, literally in any way. Zionism also is not synonymous with Netanyahu; with the Likud party; with the crazy-ass WB settlers; with the right-wing; with the left-wing; with imperialism; with religious supremacy or superiority.

AGAIN: Zionism simply supports the belief that the Jewish people deserve self-determination and safety in their ancestral homeland. THAT. IS. ALL.

If you do not believe that; if you for instance believe that the Jewish state of Israel ought to be eradicated and that 7 million Jews should just fuck off and once again be either forced into exile or exterminated, then yeah, friend, I'm gonna go ahead and call you an antisemite. If you do not believe THAT, than you are NOT an anti-Zionist, and have just been brainwashed by neo-Nazi and/or Islamofascist propaganda to associate the word 'Zionists' with "evil, blood thirsty, colonialist, racist, lying, scheming, thieving, power-hungry, invaders", because using the word they really want you to use (Jews) is no longer politically correct in the West.

[quote] AGAIN: Zionism simply supports the belief that the Jewish people deserve self-determination and safety in their ancestral homeland. THAT. IS. ALL.

But when the Palestinians hold the same belief for themselves, it’s considered a noble and righteous belief. It’s only when Jews want self-determination and safety in their homeland that such a belief is treated as on par with nazism.

R70 talks like the Zionist freak that she is, pretending Zionism is not a nationalist movement but one merely of self-determination.

One word for that: bullshit.

R72 I've said in my posts here and in many other threads that the Zionist project was in its conception a liberal, Judeo nationalist movement. You seem to have this idea that every nationalist movement in history was a necessarily imperialist fascist one, but many were just the opposite. The simple definition of nationalism is a desire to see one's nation succeed and fulfill its destiny. After WWII, 6 years of total war left European countries incapable resource wise of hanging on to far-flung empires by force, and so a long period of decolonization the world over began—namely in Africa, Asia, and the Middle East. There was an immense amount of territorial restructuring and within that, the birth of countless nation-building independence movements. Israel/Palestine was one of MANY.

Four words for YOU: crack a book sometime.

R72 Self-determination: The process by which a country determines its own statehood and forms its own allegiances and government.

Look, Mary Zionist, stop trying to sell your bullshit.

R75:

Sure, Mary, sure.

Proud Zionist, centrist liberal gentile here, OP, so fuck off you pathetic Jew hater. Having said that, Bill is an annoying douche bag.

Proud supporter and friend to the many Jews in my life (including a few exes, several dear friends, and a couple extended family members) and reject totally the gross lie you're attempting to perpetrate that being critical of Zionism or Israel makes you an anti-Semite. That's the lie told by a very defensive person.

At least we can agree that Maher is a d-bag.

Maybe head over to the r/Jewish subreddit and test out your theory there. I'm sure they'll find your characterization of all Zionists as crazy, lying, cunts particularly charming, as well as your assertion that one simply cannot be an antisemite so long as they know a few Jews. You'll also definitely want to lead with your dogged comparisons of Catholicism to Judaism to display your keen knowledge of the religion and its history.

Hunty R80, I wasn't comparing Catholicism to Judaism. I said the Catholic hierarchy considers every baby born into a Catholic family as Catholic for life. That's it. That's all I said. Meanwhile, you're saying all Jews are Zionists if they're good Jews and any non-Jew who doesn't buy Zionism as anything other than a nationalist ideology is an anti-Semite. Even though you claim to be "left," "liberal," "progressive," your attitudes and words reflect the exact opposite: just like a Trumper in love with their idol, you're blind in your beliefs, you accuse without justification, you demonize, you attack. You've had this epiphany that Zionism is the answer and have thrown over (according to you) the beliefs you had when you were younger (and from the way it sounds, smarter), and now you've gone full-blown Roseanne in your myopic beliefs. You're a bore, and arguing with you is a huge waste of time.

Anyway, I'm done with you, and your silly Zionist ways and attitudes. No longer giving you the satisfaction of a response. Blocked.

I would be curious if your Jewish friends and relatives actually don't care if Israel exists, despite whatever definition of Zionism they have r79. Would they be fine with Israel ceasing to exist as a nation and simply becoming Palestine, run by and for Muslims?

R82, no one I know, Jewish or otherwise, has any doubts about the right of Israel to exist in a two-state solution. Apart from the extremist factions in Iran and elsewhere, this is a canard and not a serious topic. It's only brought up by Zionists seeking an argument. All the Jews I know are actual progressives.

Isn’t amazing that posts like r20 remain unredlined? Disgusting piece of shit.

Not only that, R84, but three cretins liked it.

R85, just goes to show you the mentality of most pro-Israel shills on here. It’s insane. The second anyone even remotely suggests they are pro-Palestinian, they not only get labeled a Hamas supporter but in some cases get FF’ed to heaven / redlined. Yet shit like r20 is all over nearly EVERY thread on this topic and nothing. The number of comments on DL in the last month like r20 certainly outweigh by a large multiple similarly disgusting / derogatory comments re: Israelis.

Agreed, R86. Crazy Zionists.

Israeli war veteran Benzi Sanders speaking truth to power.

[quote] Fran Lebowitz over to his house, and they talked for over an hour, and whenever she corrected him about his flatulent opinion on something, he quickly backed down because he knows she's smarter than he is.

Fran doesn’t support hate crime legislation for gays, nor believes that gay rights are civil rights because gays weren’t enslaved. The woman didn’t even finish school, so let’s not. She’s totally removed from society.

R89 is misreading Lebowitz. She has never been against hate crime legislation. She differientiated between what is a "thought crime" (having opinions, even hateful ones) and actually committing violence against people, which she, of course, does NOT in any way condone. Nor did she ever say gay rights were not civil rights. She did say there was a difference between oppression (which she said gay people have experienced historically) and enslavement (actual slaves).

She didnt finish school. So what? She's clearly very intelligent and has made quite a good life for herself.

The United States should never have recognized the so-called "state" of Israel.