Older Gay Brother An Observation

I'm the oldest of three, with a younger sister and a younger brother. My husband is the same. I know a common theory is that a person is more likely to be gay the more older siblings he has due to hormone distribution, but what can I say, I'm special.

I'm the oldest gay brother and I have two younger brothers, one straight and one gay. I have older sisters. I don't think there's a pattern because I now gay guys with all sorts of different birth orders.

r1 I don't believe any of these bullshit theories about gay genes or birth order. I believe sexuality is a subconscious choice which develops up until puberty. And even in adulthood many of us still grow and change.

I am the third of four brothers. My oldest brother and I are gay. The other two are straight.

I am the older of two. I have a younger sister.

I know a few guys who believe the birth order theory because they are the youngest male with several older brothers. Large Catholic family thing. As for me, I am a first born with a brother and one sister.

Youngest, older sister. My mother said from the age of three I loved wearing my sister's tutus. My dad was worried, my mom said he's fine, whatever. Dad was right haha. I was also good at sports. I grew up in awe of women because they took care of me (youngest) but I want sex with men.

yes, two of my bfs

Yeah, me.

Me too

Why haven’t you offed yourself yet, TeaCunt?

When did you first sleep with your brothers?

I’m the oldest with two younger sisters. Ask me anything.

I think your theory is as sound as astrology.

R7 you sound like me.

R11 wtf did I do to offend your stankin ass now. Negativity— that’s what we NOT gon do on this thread. Who hurt you? Act right.

There have been a few studies that showed that the more boys a woman has, the higher chance of having a gay son.

Both me and my brother are gay - but the oldest was straight to a fault.

They say it's a woman's body trying to fight against the 'foreign' hormones that carrying a male child produces.

I definitely have seen the pattern in real life. BUT - there's another instance - where they say that a trauma in a mother's pregnancy creates a higher chance for a gay son.

The idea is that the woman is under trauma and conflict and need the male to stay home to help protect her and the others.

r7 That sounds like the usual heteronormative bullshit that homosexuality is some negative reaction to trauma. I see much more fluidity in sexuality than that strict paradigm allows.

I really believe we're all born as potential bisexuals and various relations to other males and females as we grow through childhood shape what we are at puberty.

Stupid observation, OP.

Also, I'm the oldest brother.

My gay cousin is the oldest brother.

Im sorry I didn’t mean to offend anyone btw. I love discussions like this— based on life and hypothetical evidence. Thanks for the comments thus far. Those bitches on Reddit are far too PC.

Gay guys who are the "oldest" child may be the oldest living but not necessarily the first male fetus to implant in their mother's womb.

My mother had at least one miscarriage before she had me.

Maybe a womanizing football player or two were rejected before the gay one stuck.

For homosexuality to have lasted this long, it probably does confer some sort of evolutionary benefit, though in a rather oblique way. So some sort of biological process - if not necessarily this one - must be at work.

I think R17 is however also correct to say that most people probably have some degree of bisexual potential.

r21 Or it's not an evolved trait at all - otherwise it would have evolved itself out of existence. I believe it's purely social behavior.

It would not necessarily have evolved itself out of existence, if you consider that helping the younger generations of your extended family to survive is a way of ensuring the survival of your genes, which, according to one way of looking at it, homosexuality arguably does.

I am the oldest brother of two younger sisters. After the baby was born, they kept t themselves and left me alone.

They turned out to be horrible drug using, alcohol abusing, tavern fucking wenches.

As my mother said later in life, at a Thanksgiving dinner, "Had I known how wonderful it was having a gay son, I would have skipped the straight daughters."

Amen, Amen, Amen.

I dont have a brother, I always wanted one, for those of you that do, what's it like growing up with a brother and having feelings for men at that young age? Did you hide it from them? Could they tell anyways? Where they cool with it? Did they have a talk about the birds and the bee I mean birds with you?

Homosexuality as a species-survival benefit is obvious, and I can't believe it's still being questioned.

If every single primitive male were competing for females, the men would spend all their time fighting and killing each other.

Some men had to sit out or sit back from the bloodlust while otherwise contributing to the survival of the community/species.

I'm from a family of seven. 2 boys 2 girls 2 boys, a girl. I'm the third boy and the only gay son. I have a sister that I think dabbled very briefly in bisexuality, but has lived the majority of her life as a straight woman.

[quote] Homosexuality as a species-survival benefit is obvious, and I can't believe it's still being questioned.

[quote]If every single primitive male were competing for females, the men would spend all their time fighting and killing each other.

[quote]Some men had to sit out or sit back from the bloodlust while otherwise contributing to the survival of the community/species.

r26 Where's your evidence that gay men do any of that?

One of the greatest military men of history, Alexander the Great, had a homosexual male lover. Where do you get this idea that being gay precludes a man from being a warrior? There's a lot of specious reasoning on this thread which has no scientific backup

[quote]There's a lot of specious reasoning on this thread which has no scientific backup

Including yours, appropriately named PlatonicCaveman/R28.

[quote]I believe it's purely social behavior.

Bullshit.

Me. Gay male, oldest child, one younger sister who is straight.

Oldest of 3. Only gay.

And getting more gay.

I am not sure about the 2hormones" in uterus theory, because gay men have equal amounts of testosterone as straight men and the fact that they are gay has no effect on their fertility. Gay men is as capable of impregnating a woman as straight one. If hormonal theory was exact, wouldn't it affect quality of gay men semen.

[quote]I'm the oldest of three, with a younger sister and a younger brother.

Same here, r1. And one of my best gay friends has the same order in his family.

Are PlatonicCaveman, BonniePrinceCharlie, and ConcernedEuropean the same cretinous person, talking to himself?

I am the youngest of three brothers, my partner is the opposite (oldest of three)

Don’t know about birth order, but I believe that a significant component of the “gay gene” is inherited from mostly, closeted and bisexual fathers. Mom’s biology may affect how readily it’s expressed; but I suspect dad is ultimately determinative.

I say this because as I age I’m encountering increasing numbers of gay friends whose mothers have revealed, or whose dying fathers have “confessed,” to prior, important gay experiences.

More than one gay friend has told me his mom admitted the reason for a (sometimes near) divorce was because she discovered her late husband was secretly gay.

One friend said his nearly incapacitated father made him retrieve an old photo album; pointed to a picture of himself standing with a hunky young army buddy, looked his gay son in the eye and smiled, while whispering, “I understand; he was my friend too.”

Some of this situations are heart wrenching. And it might also explain why some self-hating fathers are so quick to condemn sons who manifest what they fear most about themselves.

Oldest child and Mom's first pregnancy. I have a younger sister and brother who are straight, but it wouldn't surprise me if my brother had dabbled in the homosex in his youth.

I’m the youngest of 6. Three of us are gay, 3 are straight. My poor parents could barely cope with it.

I'm the youngest of 4, and the only one who's gay. My oldest child (my son) is gay. His sister is straight

Oldest of three, and the only boy.

[quote]Gay guys who are the "oldest" child may be the oldest living but not necessarily the first male fetus to implant in their mother's womb.

That's the case with me. My parents' first child died at six months old, then they conceived me and I wonder if the trauma of losing her first son did something to her hormones that affected me. It's not just that I'm gay and my younger brothers aren't, it's that I'm completely different from them in terms of intelligence, interests and outlook – and it's been that way from the very beginning.

r29 Oh really? Give me one shred of evidence that gay males stay home with mommy and help her run the house? And that we "sit back from the bloodlust" and don't go out in the world and fight every bit as hard as straight males?

Hahaha. What a lame theory.

Take responsibility for your life, you weakling. I pretty much chose to be gay when I was like 5 years old. It was all subconscious of course. But I chose it nonetheless.

Will to Power!!!

How do you mean you chose it? You just decided it? Are you attracted to women too?

I suspect there is something that goes along with gayness that purports a survival advantage. Perhaps not for the gay person, but for a sister or brother that carries some of those same genes. Richard Dawkins describes a moths compass leading it to flying into a flame. There is no survival advantage to flying into a flame, but the compass (attraction to light) still can lead to it. He was using that to describe belief in God, but it could be an explanation for the long term survival of people who rarely reproduce. We haven't gone extinct and have probably always existed in society.

R41 Do you look like them?

[quote]Don’t know about birth order, but I believe that a significant component of the “gay gene” is inherited from mostly, closeted and bisexual fathers. Mom’s biology may affect how readily it’s expressed; but I suspect dad is ultimately determinative.

If male homosexuality is a genetic trait passed down through the father, and if fewer and fewer men with such a trait are bowing to social pressure to marry women and start families, then the gay gene is not getting passed on, which means male homosexuality may soon become even less common. This raises the question: have gay men hastened their own extinction by opting out of heteronormativity?

It's likely to be more complicated: a homosexual orientation may result from an interaction between genes and the environment: with certain genes being 'switched on' by particular environmental conditions such as (in this hypothesis) hormonal exposure in the mother's womb. Thus the heterosexual relatives of those men would continue to pass on dormant gay genes.

R47 While I hate to agree with CE (I'm on the Israel/Hamas threads), I believe he is correct here. It's not as simple as an autosomal recessive trait. There is speculation that genes affecting sexual orientation may be on the X chromosome which would mean that woman with gay brothers might be more likely to have gay sons. I am pretty certain that there is a genetic component, perhaps more than one, but that needs to be coupled with environment (in utero and in early years). It's possible that gay tops vs bottoms may be caused by a different series of events (genetic and environmental). Not all gays are alike.

Friendly skinny sexy men of the 60s turned this little boy gay.

[quote][R41] Do you look like them?

Yes.

[quote] How do you mean you chose it? You just decided it? Are you attracted to women too?

r43 I mean we choose it in that we gravitate towards what suits us as people. I think the boy feels there is some "mystique" about other males and it becomes sexualized as he gets older.

I just don't believe a sexual preference can be hardwired anymore than can a taste for hamburgers and not curry. It's all inculcated from the outside by many different factors.

There's just no scientific evidence for a "gay gene". And this birth order theory is all bunk as exhibited by all the answers on this thread. I'm the oldest male. My younger brother is straight as fuck.

I've known plenty

[quote]I know a few guys who believe the birth order theory because they are the youngest male with several older brothers. Large Catholic family thing. As for me, I am a first born with a brother and one sister.

Not sure if it has been mentioned, but the theory is that the male x chromosome is a foreign body in mother's system and with successive sons, her body learns how to fight it off, or weaken its affects.

Another theory is that gay children are a product of a stressful pregnancy where for evolutionary reasons the coding is switched so the child will take care of the mother in distress instead of leave it for a mate.

R53 But that implies that gay men are just feminised versions of straight men: a claim which is not born out by actual biological studies of gay men (eg testosterone levels).

[quote]There's just no scientific evidence for a "gay gene".

I've discussed this before on DL. While I have no proof that there's a gay gene, I look at my mother's side of my family, where gayness runs rampant. My great-grandparents had 14 children, so there are countless grand/great grand/and great-great-grandchildren. I count at least 35 relatives who are gay (that I know of). In one family alone, there are five brothers - all of them gay. My mother's brother was gay (and married), and his son was gay. I fondly remember my cousin Fritz, in the Merchant Marines, who would come to visit every time he was in town. He was as gay as a goose. My mother seems to be a gay magnet. When I came out, there was no surprise and no drama. My father, a staunch Republican, accepted it without a hiccup and has been terrific with my husband/partner of 30 years.

Yes, I know a family where both the oldest brother and second brother are gay, the third is straight and in prison, then comes the youngest, a sister.

r53 r54 The idea that gay males are infused with some sort of estrogen hormone wash in the womb is utter homophobic bunk.

I had a beard when I was 10.

Gay males are known for their promiscuity as well. Low testosterone inhibits the male sex drive. Really? Gay men are not sex obsessed? Hahaha.

JFC this birth order theory is more homophobic balderdash. Only an idiot buys into this crap.

Nothing was said about estrogen.

R57: mate, mate - read the comment more carefully. I agree with you!

The idea that gay men are gay because they went through some kind of process of feminisation is very deeply buried in Western gay culture, but there doesn't seem to be any biological or material support for it so far as I know. In fact, the existing studies show that gay men have somewhat higher levels of testosterone than straight men, for what that's worth.

Low testosterone levels, certainly not! I don't think there are any contemporary medical studies that even suggest that. When fetal testosterone peaks might have an effect. Certainly gender discordant behavior and interests are more common in gays (males and females).

R60 Re: gender discordant behaviour it's not clear that that holds true across cultures and time periods. What association there may be might be culturally specific.

[quote]But that implies that gay men are just feminised versions of straight men: a claim which is not born out by actual biological studies of gay men (eg testosterone levels).

[quote}The idea that gay males are infused with some sort of estrogen hormone wash in the womb is utter homophobic bunk.

R54 and R54 you are assuming that this means the sceince is saying there is a feminization of gay males in utero and it ends there. That might not be the case at all. The fetus' hormone levels may increase, fight back, due to this. Maybe that is why gay men do have elevated levels of testoserone. Maybe that is the cause of gayness, a necessity to fight back against the mother's body's heightened ability to combat the X chromosome due to having sons previously.

I don't think there is a gay gene. I think whatever gayness is happens in utero, in gestation. That is why it can be paired to other traits like hair patterns that happen in utero.

I’m the oldest of two boys; I’m gay, my brother is straight. I don’t know if I believe in the “gay gene” or birth order theories, but I can say that my dad’s side of the family (which is rather small) has a fair number of known homos, myself included—my aunt my was a lesbian, and one of my great-uncles was also gay.

R62 You probably mean the y chromosome. Karyotype for a normal biological male is xy and xx for female. A genetically normal, childbearing female is xx and gives an X chromosome to whatever child she conceives. A genetically normal male is xy and his haploid sperm either fertilize the egg with X making a girl or y making a boy.

R61 I can't go back in time and determine what homosexuality was, only what it is now. Some cultures place a very high value on chaste/virginal girls and women. Sex between juvenile or unmarried boys or men might be tolerated in those circumstances just like in prisons. When I'm talking about are gays that are exclusively, or nearly exclusively, sexualy and romantically same gender attracted.

Gay man here, oldest child with two younger sisters. Sound analysis, OP.

I'm the oldest of six and the only gay one. A former boyfriend is the oldest of three and I can think of at least one (gay) friend who's the oldest child. There may be something to the "middle child" hypothesis regarding homosexuality but it's clear there are tons of exceptions.

While I'm not convinced that birth order has much bearing, I wouldn't totally dismiss it based on DL results. That would be like basing whether or not to get a COVID vaccine on how many DL posts said they got sick from the vaccine or got COVID anyway.

Are there many cases of gay/straight identical twins?

R63 Reminds me that one of my great-uncles was gay; plus he was the oldest son in the family.

I also have a cousin with a gay son, and he's the oldest of two boys.

R68 There have been a number of twin studies. Concordance in sexual orientation in monozygotic twins is high, but not 100%. In dizygotic twins, concordance is less, but that makes sense because they are no more related than singletons.

There are a number of similar studies that you can Google. Most point to higher concordance with monozygotic (genetically identical) twins, but variable. This suggests both genetic and environmental influences.

[quote]DL, have you ever met a gay who was the oldest brother of younger sisters or even one younger sister.

I'm the older gay brother of one sister 3 years younger than I am. No other siblings.

[quote] mate, mate - read the comment more carefully. I agree with you!

r59 European Conman (jk 🤣) I know you agree! I just tagged you for emphasis.

I'm American but there are a lot dumb giddy America queens here.

Birth order is a signifier, not a 100% fool proof, but a larger percentage of gay males are the middle or younger sibling. Much like hair patterns. Most men do not have a Counter Clockwise hair pattern (part hair on the right side), it is rare percentage wise. But good percentage of men who do have a Counter Clockwise hair pattern identify as gay. I know personally, I part my hair on the right side. Just curious if there are other gay men on here who part their hair on the right here.

I have my three strikes method. These signifiers combined with other social clues help me arrive at a "yeah he is" or "no he probably isn't." He seems gay, he parts his hair on the left side and he is the youngest of three boys - ok there is a high probability he is gay. Other social clues in the western world are an attractive guy who has had the same girlfriend from a young age or has an Asian girlfriend. Usually attractive young straight guys who have women throwing themselves at him aren't going to settle down with one woman at 19 years old.

R74 I agree with the first eg, but why Asian girlfriend, why wouldn't a straight guy be into Asian women?

[quote]I believe sexuality is a subconscious choice

R3 Isn't that an oxymoron? How can something be a choice if it's subconsciously? If something is subconscious it's done without one actively thinking about it. Maybe it was just a poor choice of wording because I could understand if you meant sexuality develops subconsciously.

[quote]If every single primitive male were competing for females, the men would spend all their time fighting and killing each other. Some men had to sit out or sit back from the bloodlust while otherwise contributing to the survival of the community/species.

Then why are there lesbians? Lesbians just reduce the number of potential females for the heteros to court, therefore negating your entire theory.

[quote]The idea that gay males are infused with some sort of estrogen hormone wash in the womb is utter homophobic bunk.

Really?

[quote]agree with the first eg, but why Asian girlfriend, why wouldn't a straight guy be into Asian women?

R75 it isn’t that straight guys aren’t into Asian women. I get my theory from the book Middlesex which laid it out clearly - calling dating an Asian women, for some men, a last stop before coming out. It’s the generalization that compared to western standards for females, physically Asian women are closer to boys and sexually they are less demanding of their partners compared to other ethnicities. Sexual gratification isn’t high on the list of priorities when it comes to choosing a partner - making them great beards. It’s a stereotype, of course, but people do act on stereotypes in society.

r78 So the dumb bitch says he created a gay rat because like most straight people she's a dumb bigot and thinks gay men are feminine. Honey, I ain't no big lady.

Okay, HONEY.

I'm the older brother and gay. My younger brother is 100% straight, a total Kinsey 0 pussyhound.

I've known many gay men who were the older or oldest brother.

R80 I'm not sure that homosexuality in rats equates to humans, but there are definitely gay men whose legs go up in the air almost as a reflex (not complaining). There are various reasons for human homosexuality. I don't think there is a single cause. Even with genetic predisposition, it's likely polygenetic like with eye colour.

R83 I know that the idea that bottoms = fem and tops = masc is deeply buried in the culture, but is there *really* a solid material basis for it? Perhaps bottoms just really like having the prostate stimulated.

Well let’s hope they never find what causes it - because a “cure” would soon come. There would be an in utero vaccine.

R84 It's a stereotype that bottoms=fem and tops=masc. Like a lot of stereotypes, it's based on observations with some truth, don't always hold up. I'm not fem, but most would figure out I'm likely gay pretty quickly. I never even fantasize about bottoming. I'm generally more attracted to guys with a "little sugar in the tank" because I figure we will be more compatible. Sometimes I'm wrong.

[quote]I've discussed this before on DL. While I have no proof that there's a gay gene, I look at my mother's side of my family, where gayness runs rampant.

My straight dad is convinced he passed a gay gene along to his kids since two-thirds of his daughters are lesbians and the third one gave bisexuality a whirl. (Our brother is straight.) He has a lesbian sister whose only son is gay. They also had a gay uncle who sired a gay son. He gets weirdly competitive about it when my mom mentions her gay cousins.

r87 it doesn’t sound like something in the genes but more like something in the water, wherever you’re from…

I am the youngest of three brothers. They're straight.

R86, sure, but do some bottoms act fem because that is core to who they are, or because they've been convinced that that's how they are supposed to act?

(Just saying, because masc and well-built bottoms are some of my very, very favourite people on this earth).

R86 yeah I've had that, have struck a few fem tops out there, which can be a little disconcerting for the both of us seeing as I dont and cant bottom

R90 I can't answer that question with any degree of certainly. If someone is looking to bottom, it's quite possible that they have more success if not presenting too masc and learn that behavior. It's quite evident that a lot of very young boys are already acting "sissy" way before puberty and sexual awakening, but who knows how many of those end up preferring to bottom. I suppose a study of self identifying "sissy boys" who are now adults could answer the question, but those kinds of studies are not the most reliable. If I had to guess, I would say there is a correlation.

On Datalounge, versatile guys don't exist.

R93 Probably exist out of necessity. Most people probably have a preference.

I'm totally verse. Flip-flop is my middle name.

Flip flop is the best! I'm versatile and can't be in a relationship with a guy who's a strict top/bottom. That's ok for a trick or a FB but for commitment I need a versatile guy.

R96 Yeah, I've broken up with guys who won't take turns.

[quote]Honey, I ain't no big lady.

[quote]Okay, HONEY. —Gurrrrrrrrrrl, please.

r81 Haha. I did that purpose. I can camp it up with the best of them. You know it's all a big put-on anyway, gurl. 🤣

[quote]Well let’s hope they never find what causes it - because a “cure” would soon come. There would be an in utero vaccine.

^ ^ ^ r85 This 100%.

I believe sexual preference is all personal choice and reaction to environment.

But if it is genetic or some in utero process, you know the hets will eradicate homosexuality from the face of the earth.

Yup.

Homosexuality can't be helped. The only way to get rid of us would be to ensure there is no more than one male living at any given point in time.

r100 Agreed. Sex is such natural human behavior, I just can't believe sexual orientation is innate.

As an aside, dick size is polygenetic as well. Not only through the father.

R99 I don't think it's down to simply choice and environment at least not in my case. I have never had a real sexual or romantic attraction to girls no matter how hard I tried. I fantasized and masterbated long before puberty and I was never thinking about girls. There may be some boys and girls that experience some trauma or situation that flips a switch, but I don't think that accounts for most. I also don't believe there is any specific gay gene that anyone will be able to target. Not like something you could find on prenatal screening test. I certainly don't consider homosexuality to be a disease, but an example of something with inherited tendency that doesn't always show up would be type 2 diabetes. It is genetic and environmental. No one specific gene and one identical twin may develop it and the other not. Twin studies suggest this is the same with sexual orientation. Identical twins have a much higher likelihood of having the same sexual orientation than do same gender fraternal twins do.

OP, I’m the oldest of my mom’s kids and I have two younger sisters, one of whom is a lesbian.

I know someone who is a lesbian in a family of 5 children. Only one of the children (a girl) is straight. The other 4 (including a set of identical twin boys) is gay.

I don't think they'll ever identify a single gay "gene". It seems that there are a number of points during gestation during which "gay" can be turned on, via a hormonal surge, a trauma, any number of things that the woman is going through. That suggests to me that there are perhaps a dozen or more flexion points in the genome that are susceptible and can alter sexual orientation.

I do think that the tendency towards bisexuality is broader than typically acknowledged. When I see a very tomboyish wife, or an effeminate husband, I almost always think that inside there is a bisexual waiting to get out, but strongly socialized not to express that natural tendency. I think that's why men and women can both operate sexually in prisons and other sexually segregated settings. Normal social pressure doesn't work in that setting and people can succumb to sexual desire without the guilt that accompanies it in the outside world.

Still, most of us at a site like this are Kinsey 6 men. I never fantasized about women. My father was a consumer of popular novels (mostly spy novels and books of that ilk). I started picking them up and reading them when I was probably 11. The straight sex scenes were fairly explicit but I never found them exciting. But on the rare occasion that a gay sex scene was implied, I was all eyes.....

R106 they wont identify a single "gay gene" - in fact they have already identified half a dozen, with more likely to come, it is polygenetic as someone above pointed out. And there are a bunch of foetal environmental factors that come into play as well, birth order being just one

I'm pretty much a Kinsey 6 as well

R99, I hate to use this line. But your feelings and anecdotes are irrelevant to the facts. For the vast majority of people, the fact is that their sexual “orientation” — which may or may not always align with their actual sexual behaviors — isn’t something freely chosen. Further, that such an orientation isnt freely “chosen” doesn’t mean it must be the result of strictly genetics, as others have already pointed out.

r108 I'm not saying any guy sits down at the breakfast table one day and I decides "I wanna fuck men!"

I just see no reason to believe we are preprogrammed at birth to prefer pussy or dick. We all start with bisexual potential. Then when we see mommy and daddy together, and we hear tons of hate speech about evil faggots, most gravitate towards heterosexuality. This happens in a child before puberty on a subconscious level.

Most people end up as straight because that's the predominate directive of society, to create breeders to spawn the next generation.

No, they have not discovered this elusive gay gene they keep babbling about. And there is no evidence to support this homophobic crap that we are some perversion created by hormone baths in the womb.

I'm proud of who I am and I take responsibility. I choose homosexuality. If I didn't, I'd become celibate and go live on some mountaintop.

I'm the oldest gay brother of three siblings; one younger sister is straight, and the youngest of the three is a lesbian.

My mother's side of the family - she had 9 brothers and sisters - is rampant with gays and lesbians, in and out of the closet.

It's so random; one female cousin had four kids, three of whom are gay (#1M, #2M, #3F.) That cousin's older brother (obviously also my cousin), had four kids, none of whom are gay.

I'm a Kinsey 7.

I'm a Kinsey 666.

“I'm not saying any guy sits down at the breakfast table one day and I decides "I wanna fuck men!"”

So in other words, they arent freely “choosing” their sexual orientation. That was my precisely my point.

The rest of your post ascribes a lot of bizarre value judgements to empirical data or basic science. For one, a potential genetic basis for homosexuality (or other forms of sexuality) =/= a discrete gene that causes the same. And then there is also EPIgenetics. Re: “hormone baths in the womb”: how do you explain the very well-documented fact that the concordance rate for homosexuality is substantially higher for identical twins than for nonidentical twins?

You like the color blue. You like oranges and hate apples. You like brunettes and not blonds. You didn't consciously choose any of those preferences. But that doesn't mean they're innate. They're chosen through experience, but not consciously.

Identical twins obviously have identical physical characteristics and grow up in identical environments and will tend to react the same to outside stimuli. This is not rocket science.

No gay gene has been discovered. No group of gay genes has been discovered. There's no proof that eldest sons are never gay. Yet I've been reading for years now that it's been proven homosexuality is the result of subsequent hormone washes in the womb. Balderdash.

It's all bullshit. Sexuality is more fluid than you and the predestinarians will ever admit.

I detect a shame about your homosexuality and you're trying to resolves yourself of guilt. Sorry about that.

^ I don’t think you understand the concept of “choice.” The very concept of CHOICE implies conscious, willful decision-making. So in your color preference analogy, yes, I agree that, like all other *preferences*, liking blue, in and of itself (as opposed to say wearing a blue shirt) isn’t a “choice”.

Also, where did I ever claim that an individual’s sexuality is not subject to change or evolution?

Educate yourself just a little on the most rudimentary science involved here. As already stated: just because something isn’t 100% determined by genetics (or by a *specific gene*) doesn’t mean genetics doesn’t or can’t still play a heavy role. See e.g.: “Collectively, the DNA differences explained only 8 to 12 percent of the heritability of having same-sex partners. “There is no gay gene,” Ganna said, “but rather non-heterosexuality is influenced by many tiny-effect genetic factors.””

And there’s a lot more to being born a certain way than genetics. For example, the pseudo-random way neuronal cell interconnections are initially established. The dynamics of the way cells divide and specialize and how organ structures form in an embryo is a long way from being predictable or well understood in terms of the variation it might introduce.

“Identical twins obviously have identical physical characteristics and grow up in identical environments and will tend to react the same to outside stimuli. This is not rocket science.”

Ok, so if you’re so convinced that it’s purely the post-natal environmental factors (I.e., “grow up in identical environments”) that are causative, then why is the concordance rate for *fraternal* twins LOWER than for identical twins? We await your carefully researched scientific explanation.

“Sexuality is more fluid than you and the predestinarians will ever admit.“

Where did I ever claim that sexuality is or cannot be fluid?

“I detect a shame about your homosexuality and you're trying to resolves yourself of guilt. Sorry about that.”

I detect projection by you of your own emotional baggage in literally all of your posts (speaking of which, aren’t you the same dipshit that seriously tried to argue it’s “impossible” for a male to be raped?). I also detect a severe inability to think logically and critically, to suspend (or at least make a good-faith attempt to suspend) your own preconceived notions, or to appreciate the slightest of nuance.

I don’t care at this point if I offend you (since you’ve already proven yourself to be a presumptuous asshole) by saying this, but you type like you barely passed the GED.

There is no gay gene, at least none they can find. I believe the current theory is Epigenetics. Basically, environmental influences that trigger certain genes to flip one way or the other.

Teacake is fat

My ass is. My big fat beautiful douched cocoa ass.

Gaping shit fall out on dick you ride coke head

R119 Bitch who da fuck you to think you trollin. Get yo life.

Now I don't know this man, and he doesn't part is hair on the right side (he has a clockwise hair pattern), BUT this is what I was talking about at r74. This is a post from the NYPost Instagram today. I am not saying he is gay. But if I was in his in circle and had my doubts, his girlfriend would be a check in the "probably is" column. If he has older brothers too, I would probably say most definitely. A straight heterosexual man who looks like him usually aren't settled down at 31.

Teacake, Gerg, ElderLez all deD

I’m the youngest and the only gay,but the three major relationships I’ve had in my life have all been with guys who are the oldest child. Not sure what that says about me.

[quote] Teacake, Gerg, ElderLez all deD

What a bore you are, R122.

Stfu

R125, thank you for your contribution.