Team Israel

Well duh. Anybody who considers the Koran a holy book is inherently evil.

[quote]This editorial board wishes to take this opportunity to declare its full and unequivocal support for Israel because, frankly, it seems like you get in way less trouble for that.

Both teams such

Yes, but one sucks a lot worse.

Someone didn't get the memo.

As long as people follow the Koran peace is impossible no matter how many peace talks or accords are discussed for the rest of time.

Not quite that simple, given that thanks to Netanyahu the current Israeli government includes plenty of pro-stoning-gays—kept in line so far, but getting stronger. Fundies are fundies.

R7 we’re not playing that game. The worst “fundie” Jews are 1000x better than the homosexual-killing Islamists. Fuck off!

What’s your next argument? “But…but innocent Palestinian POC women and children!!!”

Any gays brainwashed by ultra progressives on social media to support this “both sides” or any pro-Palestine narrative has zero backbone.

No, R8, the "worst 'fundie' Jews" are the ones who agitate against gay lives, including running around stabbing people at gay pride marches. And who have been emboldened and endorsed by Netanyahu. So *you* fuck off with your false dichotomy and soft-pedaling the threat of fundamentalism. There are far fewer murderous Jewish fundies than murderous Muslim fundies in the Middle East, but all that matters is whether they're in power.

This is actually a smart way to rack up WWs.

There are lots of assholes on both sides.

R9 wow you’re a little mindfuck psycho. Sorry, but Palestinians are way worse. ✊🏿✊🏾

Israel has been occupying Gaza and the West Bank for years. Gaza has been described as an open-air prison. Israel may have abandoned its settlements in Gaza in 2005, but it is still the authority in Gaza restricting personal movement and good and services. Israel is a land-grabber and land-occupier. Enough is enough. Allow the Palestinians to self-determine their on future. A two-state solution is the only way to peace or at least a hateful and begrudging co-existence.

Of course, tensions were going to explode. What did Israel expect? Get the fuck out of Palestinian lives and off their land.

Creating an independent terrorist state in Palestine is the only way to peace? Is that a statement from the Bizarro world or just a lunatic asylum?

R9 we all hate Bibi. But my god. You actually truly believe a Jewish fundie is on the same "evil" level as a Islamic fundie when it comes to gays? Really??

That's utterly insane.

It's hard to choose between hot Israeli cock and hot Palestinian cock.

It's so cool that we're all gonna repeat the same hysteria we did after 9/11.

"Israel has been occupying Gaza and the West Bank for years."

Considering the birth rates in both places have skyrocketed, and considering 60% of the population is under the age of 18 in both places, how bad can life be there (at least up until 2 weeks ago)?

[quote] It's so cool that we're all gonna repeat the same hysteria we did after 9/11.

Hysteria?! We didn't launch the Iraqi invasion for another 18 months.

Yes, only the most paradisiacal places on Earth have high birth rates. That's why Niger is so amazing and shitholes like Switzerland are avoided by everyone.

Why can't the Arab-loving world accept the fact that it wasn't an Israeli missile that bombed the Gazan hospital?!

Oh cool! Congratulations. All the other IDF atrocities don't matter now!

An Israeli was on CNN within the last hour claiming - unchecked - that the New York Times headline blamed Israel for the bombing. It did not. Instead, it reads:

"BLAST KILLS HUNDREDS AT GAZA HOSPITAL"

No it's not that simple, there is NO saint, no good side on this war.

OP's POV is simplistic and hypocritical. There is no right side to defend.

Here's how the IDF works:

1. It wasn't us.

2. Maybe it was us but we can't be sure.

3. Ok it was us, but the dead people were terrorists.

4. Ok they weren't terrorists but the terrorists were using them as human shields.

5. Ok they weren't human shields but we don't kill people on purpose, they do.

6. Ok we kill way more people but you're an antisemite.

OP, are you being forced to live in one or the other? Give it a rest.

What dont you people understand about NATIVE LAND. It is ISRAELS LAND. PERIOD.

Yes, R27, the same anti-Zionists would be the first to proclaim that the white man stole the Indians' land.

Don't be ridiculous nutjubs with that RW crap.

Are you really going to use scriptures to justify land stealing and mass murders?

R28, r27 here and i am part Souix . Try a luttle harder for your next propaganda lie.

If the Arab countries love Palestinians so much, I dare them to take Palestinians in. But they won't because they Palestinians are terrorists.

^ and/or maybe because they don’t want to play right into Israel’s hands by permanently dispossessing Palestinians of their homeland.

R19 you must’ve been comatose during all the rabidly islamophobic and extremely jingoistic “us or them” hysteria leading up to the invasion

R33, actually it was all about Saddam, every night and every day, for months. Obviously, once the ridiculous decision was made to go after him, the MSM fell into lockstep, ignoring or mocking the thousands of anti-war protests and millions of anti-war protestors.

In the years after 911, there has been a literal explosion of muslim immigration into the US. We are going to regret it.

We destabilized the Middle East for the oil. Now they’re flooding in and destabilizing our society.

[quote]Allow the Palestinians to self-determine their o[w]n future. A two-state solution is the only way to peace

We've tried this time and again; see: Jimmy Carter, Bill Clinton.

Yasser Arafat-led Palestine demurred (because Palestinians like killing Jews more than peaceful coexistence).

And, at the end of the day, Palestinians don't want a two-state solution; they want it all.

Which one is more black- the Pot or the Kettle? "But at least the Kettle is less black than the Pot!"

Team Israel all the way. The IDF has never decapitated anyone. The bloodthirsty animals in Gaza are holding 20 children as hostages.

The Hasbara team is hard at work we see!

Both these “teams” are petulant and cost a fortune. I wish we could be done with them.

We should make these things like sports teams:

The Tel Aviv Avengers

The West Bank Child Beheaders

Recent polling shows a significant majority of Israelis blame Mr Netanyahu not just for the military and intelligence failures that allowed the attack but for “propping up” the terrorist group in the first place.

“For years, the various governments led by Benjamin Netanyahu took an approach that divided power between the Gaza Strip and the West Bank – bringing Palestinian Authority president Mahmoud Abbas to his knees while making moves that propped up the Hamas terror group”, wrote political correspondent Tal Schneider in the Times of Israel last week. “The idea was to prevent Abbas – or anyone else in the Palestinian Authority’s West Bank government – from advancing toward the establishment of a Palestinian state”.

Dmitry Shumsky, a columnist for Haaretz, took a similar line, arguing that Mr Netanyahu had pursued a policy of “diplomatic paralysis” in order to avoid negotiations with the Palestinians over a two-state solution – a solution despised by the country’s extreme Right. This flawed strategy turned Hamas from “a minor terrorist group into an efficient, lethal army with bloodthirsty killers who mercilessly slaughtered innocent Israeli civilians”, said Mr Shumsky.

Mr Netanyahu is a populist and some say it is too much to say he actively propped up Hamas as a pre-planned strategy; rather he found it convenient that there was division in Palestinian politics and allowed it to thrive to Hamas’s benefit.

Certainly, the various coalition governments he has led in recent years can be seen to have had the effect of aiding the movement.

Despite being formally designated a terrorist organisation by Israel, the US and much of the West, Mr Netanyahu has largely ignored military provocation from the group since the last major Israeli ground incursion of 2014, and has simultaneously allowed huge sums of cash to flow into Gaza.

The money is said to have come in suitcases via Qatar, where Hamas’s political leadership is based, but also via trade with Israel that has boomed in recent years as tens of thousands of cross-border work permits have been issued to Gazans.

Although careful in public, in early 2019 Mr Netanyahu was quoted as saying behind closed doors that those who opposed a two-state solution should support the transfer of funds to Gaza, because it worked against Palestinian unity, according to the Times of Israel.

I hope the IDF flattens Gaza, erases Hamas from existence, and then the Israelis boot out Bibi and his awful coalition of extremists while pulling the settlers back and returning to normal liberal democratic governance. Sadly the second one is an even bigger pipe dream than a peaceful two state solution.

The terror apologists are hard at work I see.

Not to mention that the murderer who r9 references is spending the rest of his miserable life in prison and is only still alive because Israel doesn't have the death penalty. Do you think someone who murdered a kid at a Pride parade would be punished in the Muslim world? They'd likely get a parade in their honor.

As has also been mentioned, the Israeli people are LIVID at Netanyahu over this. His ass is grass, likely as soon as this war is over. Every poll I've seen shows Likud (Bibi's party) absolutely crashing. Do you think the people of Gaza will hold Hamas responsible for their part in this? I kinda doubt it.

And yeah, the whole sucking up to and hero-worshipping people who want us all dead is simply mind-boggling, full stop.

Here's a little test for those wondering where they stand:

- Do you want things to get better for queer Palestinians or do you not?

- If you do, then irrefutably the first step is to establish a sovereign state where Palestinians have the right of citizenship. A dispossessed and persecuted people are not going to engage in the difficult self-examination every society must go through as it debates recognition of the rights of its own minorities. Instead, dispossession and persecution serve to strengthen the most extreme voices, like Hamas, not the more moderate ones, like the PLO.

- White South Africans during apartheid repeatedly argued that once the blacks were in power, they would kill all their enemies because they were barbaric and lacked civilisational restraint. Not only did it not happen, post-Apartheid South Africa was one of the first countries to recognise gay rights in its constitution. Of course, white South Africans were just as self-interested in making that argument as the citizens of Apartheid Israel are today in their pinkwashing of their own war crimes.

If you don't care about whether things get better for queer Palestinians or not, then you don't actually care about gay rights. You simply want to use a subset of gay people as a rhetorical prop to support your genocidal fantasies. What matters to you is not their sexual orientation, but their skin colour.

R46, you are completely missing the role of islam in your scenario. Of the 57 muslim majority countries, only two have gay rights, in ten it is a capital offense, the rest it is an imprisonable offense. Visit a muslim-majority country and see how pervasive islam is in everyday life.

Yawn, r46. Because all the independent Muslim nations on the face of the planet have been such gay rights success stories. I would say you should go to Palestine and give us a first-hand report on gay rights there, but the way things are going on the Continent, you'll be dealing with it in your front yard soon enough.

[quote] Now they’re flooding in and destabilizing our society.

Some speculate that the Wagner Group is pushing migration to destabilize the West. And I've also seen speculation that Russia supplied Hamas with captured Ukrainian weaponry to spread concern that Ukraine was arming Hamas, all to distract the world from Russia's invasion of Ukraine. I have not seen good support for these speculations, but they interest me.

R48 Funny, because I live in Europe (five different countries, four of which have experienced mass migration from the Islamic world) and I feel totally safe here.

Shall I tell you where I definitely *wouldn't* feel safe?

[quote]If you do, then irrefutably the first step is to establish a sovereign state where Palestinians have the right of citizenship.

Creating a new independent terrorist state in the Middle East is of course out of the question, so we can immediately discard that notion. As has been pointed out, the main problem that gay Palestinians face is living with Palestinians, so the only way to help them would be to support their exodus from any Palestinian controlled areas.

R47 I've visited eight Muslim-majority states, how many have you visited? They range from countries which hold queer rights festivals (Bosnia and Herzegovina) to countries which have significant gay scenes, albeit mostly underground (Morocco) to countries where homosexuality is very definitely not tolerated (Iran).

There is a broad spectrum in the Muslim world. I'm certainly not arguing that the situation for the community in most of it is what I'd want to see. I'm suggesting however that countries can be moved from the less tolerant to the more tolerant end of the spectrum.

I'm also saying that none of this justifies mass expulsion, ethnic cleansing or apartheid in Palestinian areas. Uganda, a majority-Christian country where I've also visited, is extremely anti-gay both in its legislation and in its popular attitudes, but that doesn't mean I'm calling for it to be recolonised and its people to be re-enslaved.

R51 Even if that, very limited, aim is the sum total of your ambition, at least have the intellectual honesty to admit that it will not be accomplished by mass ethnic cleansing like we're watching right now.

R46 What does skin colour have to do with Israel/Arabs? You may call them white or brown I suppose, but they are the same colour. Ashkenazi are now the minority Jewish population of Israel. Most are Sephardic or Mizrahi which are descendants of Jews expelled from Arab countries of North Africa, the Middle East and Iran. They are as "brown" (or white) as Arabs. It may be ethnoreligious, but it isn't race/skin colour.

R54 So what is your explanation for the fact that many in the West outside of Israel, particularly Americans, hold up gay Palestinians as justification for the mass slaughter they want to visit on all Palestinians, but don't seem troubled by the fact that the victims of it will inevitably include gay Palestinians?

None of these so called enlightened Muslim countries have anything approaching full civil rights for their LGBT citizens. Let’s see, which Middle East country has civil rights protections for their LGBT citizens? Which one was it???

Fuck me R56. The point is that that's not a justification for them to be recolonised, their populations ethnically cleansed, and an apartheid system set up on their territory. And if it shouldn't happen to them, it shouldn't happen to the Palestinians.

Don’t forget about the 200,000 Black Israelis.

R58 The Apartheid system is in the West Bank, dipshit.

I wouldn’t fuck your trash box with a ten foot pole, skank

There’s no apartheid, dipshit.

R61 Desmond Tutu certainly thought so and you must admit he knew something about the subject.

Who cares what Uncle Tom says?!?

R55 I have no idea what you are talking about. It's a complete nonsequestor. I pointed out that the majority of Israeli Jews are the same "shade" as Arabs and that it isn't a racial issue. That has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with gay Palestinians or what Americans think or feel about anyone, gay or otherwise, being killed.

The bloodthirsty Muslims swore to “drive the Jews into the sea”in 1948. They’ve never renounced that pledge

Self-proclaimed "ConcernedEuropean", surely you must know that your personal disinformation campaign on DL against Israel isn't going to get traction. You could see the attempts by your fellow loons haven't had any success.

R64 If it's not about skin colour, it's up to you to provide an alternative explanation for why these people use gay Palestinians as a rhetorical prop to justify the mass murder and expulsion of Palestinians, including gay Palestinians. Note that these people do nothing to differentiate in any way Palestine's Christian minority, as well as Fatah, its most significant secular political organisation, from the Muslim Palestinians they hate.

R66 Oh, I'm sure your likes to posts ratio knocks mine into a cocked hat. If only we could see it.

This part of the world has always been a war-torn shithole, and it always will be. The sooner the rest of the world adopts electric power, we can stop caring about about their godforsaken oil.

I've been to 3 Arab countries (some several times) plus Turkey and Bosnia and Herzegovina (which is actually Slavic, although Muslim). I also lived in Israel for 3 years. You can't just look at someone and tell if they're Jews or Arabs by skin colour. Sometimes you can tell by the way they dress or language they are speaking. My best Israeli friends were a family of Libyan Jewish descent and the only way you could tell they weren't Arabs was that they were speaking Hebrew (except Grandma that spoke mostly Arabic) and certain mannerisms that most foreigners wouldn't even pick up on. That's the MAJORITY of Jews in Israel. There are also Ethiopian Jews who are black as well as Indian Jews and the Jews from Yemen are much darker than most Arabs. This fallacy that race has anything at all to do with it needs to stop. It's cultural, it's religious, it's ethnoreligous. It has nothing to do with race or skin colour.

R70. OK, so what was the justification when the Palestinians were led by the PLO without Hamas as a rival?

The point I'm trying to get at here is that the people who want to deny Palestinians their rights - which include most Americans, and most Israelis - want to deny them to all Palestinians, regardless of religion, political affiliation or sexual orientation. They are totally dispossessed, as a people, and they remain the most significant and most numerous people to be denied the right to be citizens of a sovereign state, something which repeated attempts at pinkwashing Apartheid Israel serve to cover up.

“Palestinians” have created their own hell by refusing to recognize Israel’s right to exist, and repeatedly joining the enemies of Israel in their invasions. Maybe they should have quit in 1948 when they were ahead?

No R67, it's not up to me to prove something that you are saying is true. People dislike other people for all kinds of reasons. Sometimes it may be race and sometimes it has nothing to do with race at all. Why do Russians and Ukrainians hate each other and why do some people support Russians and others Ukrainians? I don't think it has anything to do with skin colour. I pointed out an objective fact. Obviously you have never been to Israel or you would already know it. An average "Concerned European" or American that was visiting an Israeli university wouldn't be able to tell an Arab student from an Israeli Jew. The reason I'm saying university is because the students tend to dress alike so you wouldn't get the hint based on that.

R73 Would it shock you if I told you that Fatah (which has semi-autonomous control of the West Bank, where most Palestinians live) has recognised the state of Israel's right to exist since all the way back in 1993?

How has the American media let you down so badly my "friend"?

R71 I get it. You're just trolling. There is no way to reply to something that has no bearing on my post at all.

r72, how can anyone stop the Palestinians from fucking themselves over? They've become so good at it, with so many decades of practice doing it to themselves.

Everything that could be said about the situation of the Palestinians that is bad has been caused by the Palestinians themselves. It is tragic that they are their own enemy and no on can stop it.

No, R75, it would shock me that you are such a simpleton that you would think we would forget Fatah’s bloody, terrorist past.

Sigh. R76. I said that the widespread prejudice against Palestinians (which amounts to supporting mass ethnic cleansing and mass murder of them, and depriving them of the same right to self-determination almost all other peoples enjoy) was down to skin colour.

You disagreed. OK, fair enough. I'm just not really seeing what the alternative basis for this prejudice is, and of course it wouldn't justify it in any case.

[quote] Everything that could be said about the situation of the Palestinians that is bad has been caused by the Palestinians themselves.

Really, R77? How interesting. Including the illegal settlements? How did the Palestinians manage to inflict those on themselves?

Fatah=Hamas

R79 There once was a country called Yugoslavia. It's in Europe. I've been there several times both before and after the republics broke apart. I've been to Serbia, Croatia, Slovenia and Bosnia and Herzegovina. Many of them hate each other. They had a big war. They massacred each other. There is a small museum in Sarajevo that has pictures of Bosnians in concentration camps that look remarkably similar to what happened to Jews during WWII. People around the world had differing opinions, some bordering on hate, regarding who was villain or victim. All of the people involved in this war were basically the same genetically. I have never heard anyone suggest it was racially motivated. You are fixated on the idea of race/skin colour being the only reason for hate. It wasn't in the former Yugoslavian republics and it isn't in Israel. I'm done explaining it.

R82 OK, if you don't want to reply you don't want to reply, but I am genuinely interested, what do you think was the reason for the massacres in ex-Yugoslavia? I'll bet you that the Rwandan Hutus are genetically identical to the Rwandan Tutsis, what do you think the reason for the Rwandan genocide was?

R83 I don't know, but I'm betting it had nothing to do with race or skin colour.

Why did the Holocaust happen in Europe? Ashkenazi are pretty much white. Many, including my family, were very assimilated. They spoke Magyar and not Yiddish. They were not religious and didn't keep kosher. Even people that were protestant or catholic, but had a Jewish grandparent were sent to extermination camps. People always form some kind of tribe. It's unfortunately our nature. Perhaps we should realize that and work on it.

Well, some geneticists argue that there is no such thing as distinct 'races', because human genetic variation is constant and doesn't sort humanity into clearly defined groups (so, someone from Ethiopia may be closer genetically to someone from Sweden than to someone from Mali). I don't have the expertise to come to a firm opinion on that, but I think it is clear that 'racism', as the word is commonly used and understood, felt by group A against group B does not require clear genetic differentiation between the two groups, or even necessarily a differentiation in skin colour, but perhaps only a perceived difference in ethnic origin. When the Hutus committed genocide against the Tutsis, what motivated them if not racism?

R86 Race is not something that is clearly defined, but no one I know would call it racism if two Black people (or groups of Black people) fought each other. The same with Yugoslavia and Russia/Ukraine. Current definitions of "race" in the US/Europe would most definitely not include those examples as being racially motivated or racist. Blacks (in the US anyway) would be outraged if racism was casually used to explain white on white fighting such as in Ukraine.

I think tribalism would be a better word to use than racism. Tribalism would include anything that makes people feel part of a group. That could still include race and religion, but also common language and culture/shared history and just about anything else that makes you identify with said group.

I'm so high right now.

R30

It’s spelled Sioux.

And I'm part Italian.

What would Mrs. Garrett do? I bet she could bring Israel and Palestine together.

R49 "Some speculate"

Why is no one talking about the sad fact that Roxane Gay has been demoted to an advice column in the Times, "Advice From a Work Friend"? She does seem to enjoy it, though, and gets to say "It's not okay to do this" and "It's not okay to do that" a lot.

I'm team innocent cannon fodder children on both sides.

Well Roxane ate an edible that scrambled her brain permanently. They had to demote her because she's a real Rose Nyland now.

I find it interesting how so many people start the clock at 75 years ago. They have no clue about the blatant Jew hatred and call for genocide in the koran, how mohammade was a brutal, mass murdering Jew hater, the islamic conquest and islamic imperialism, the long history of discrimination and violence towards Jews in muslim countries and pogroms throughout the Holy Land in the early part of the 20th century. Muslims terrorists are killing civilians all over the world and no one discusses that.

I find it more than ironic how muslims in the US, Canada and Australia keep going on and on about decolonization without a hint of self-awareness.

Roxane had her time in the sun. But she's old news now and she's just not exotic enough these days. Maybe if she were TWOC they wouldn't have demoted her.

At this point Roxane is like a cake that someone left out in the rain.

R94 thank you for validating Queer people by referencing Roxane Gay.

Since you mentioned Yugoslavia and it is my country, I might try to explain what caused such a horrible carnage there.

The situation was similar to the one that exists in the US now. There was high inflation, debt crises and the socialist world in Eastern Europe was falling apart. Six nations were living in relative harmony, but then the question of who was oppressing who and who was privileged came out. Serbian academics started the victimization narrative which was depicting Serbs victim of hundred years of Muslim terror during the Turk reign, and Bosnian and Kosovo Muslims were the privileged ones (something very similar to white privilege) and Croatian terror during the WW2. Through the media Serbs started accusing Kosovo people of terrorizing the Serbian minority. It was all over the press and everyone believed in it. Milošević came to power (funny that he was perceived left wing progressive) and he held big rallies, promised to Serbians that he would protect them. Of course, Croatians and Kosovari got radicalized in return. Bosnian Muslims were the only one who remained sane, but as you know they got the worst end. Then Slovenia and Croatia declared independence and Serbia attacked them, pretending to protect their minority. Then they attacked Bosnia and Kosovo in the end. In fact, the old communist and some new nationalist players elites were using their nations as pawns in the fight over the resources in the changing world and fall of communism.

Obviously I am not from Rwanda, but something very similar happened there, when the oppressed tribe wanted to take revenge against the one that used to be privileged.

This is why it is hard to believe the craziness and bad intentions that stand behind the false progressive racist narrative of white privilege and white guilt in US (while most whites are as poor and powerless as the others). I know that neoliberal corporate world hijacked the left and turned it into vengeful and divisive bitch, that helps them keeping working class powerless by turning them against each other, but it can be really dangerous.

And this new anti semitic sentiment disguised as progressive care for Palestinian cause doesn't seem harmless too.

I was pro Palestine all my life and I am still against retaliation, but I must admit I was rather put off by the Hamas atrocities.

Imagine if your last name is Gay, but you stubbornly choose to identify as "Queer".

[QUOTE] I was pro Palestine all my life

Sure Jan.

Pro-Palestinian = pro-terrorists

You are just an American idiot R103. You know nothing about the world. Yugoslavia was very pro Palestine, we knew about the Palestinian struggle and people here thought differently than you in US, who were standing on Israeli side and were brainwashed by your mainstream media.

Also we are used to Bosnian and Kosovo Muslims, who have been the most peaceful people in Yugoslavia. They still are, people from Sarajevo, being the most forgiving people.

But, radicalized Islamists are something different. You see it in Israel and you see it in European countries.

I wish we could get German Gay Guy on here, for an international perspective.

Oh yeah? Well I was under sniper fire in bosnia.

Oh nobody gives a shit what you think R105. Put a sock in it.

Actually R108, R100/R105 makes a lot of sense. Although I understand the frustration of Palestinians, I am pro Zionist and he and I probably have differing opinions on some things, I appreciate his perspective. I'm R82 and traveled extensively and several different times in the former Yugoslavia (before and after the war). I had one close Yugoslavian friend (had a falling out several years ago now) that is half Croatin Jewish/half Serbian (Orthodox). Through her, I knew others from Montenegro and Croatia. I like hearing from people that have experienced a situation rather than hotheads that "think" they know it all based on their slanted news perspective, youtube videos that confirm their bias as well as social media bullshit. Yugoslavia, perhaps should be a wake-up call to others. Beba (former friend) told me things were getting bad in Yugoslavia and I couldn't believe it at the time. I initially thought she was making too much out of it. Obviously I was wrong when you see what actually happened. When I was there in 1983 everything appeared (to this American, who doesn't speak Serbo-Croation), to be fine. It also didn't have the feel of other communist countries I had visited. I never lived in Yugoslavia, and a tourist, even a repeat one, will never get the full picture. With the exception of 3 years in Israel, I've only lived the the US. I feel I have more depth of knowledge when it comes to Israel, but I know there are limits as far as what I can know about the experience of Palestinians. Some things that get posted however, I can recognize as bullshit. People just jumping on the bandwagon of what ever team they decided they want to align with and repeating inflammatory and false narratives.

R109 writes wall of text while actually saying nothing at all.

LGBTQ flag at a pro-Palestinian rally

R110 is probably one of these.

"People just jumping on the bandwagon of what ever team they decided they want to align with and repeating inflammatory and false narratives."

r107, you are mistaken. That was ME over there.

Zillenials just want something to be pissed and scream about. Also, Islamys are insane.

R111, not surprising. Muslims hate the gays.

Picking from these two current teams is worse than Sophie’s Choice.

Meryl,

The choice isn't difficult.

Let’s write a poem

Islami salami

Be careful with your mommy

If you don’t watch the Islamis

They’ll force their salami in your mommy

OP's sentiment is simplistic and overly general. Just like Iran, their government is theocratic and ideologically fundamentalist. But at least half the population hates their government and their oppression of their freedom.

Israeli people fit in better when they move to the western world because they are not extremely violent, religious or barbaric like the people from Palestine.

I wouldn't trust anyone who defends Hamas.

R119, saying it's half is being too generous. The vast majority support Hamas and its actions.

I have great admiration for how President Biden has used his empathy and physical presence in Israel to convince Israelis that they are not alone in their war against the barbaric Hamas, while trying to reach out to moderate Palestinians. Biden, I know, tried really hard to get Israeli leaders to pause in their rage and think three steps ahead — not only about how to get into Gaza to take down Hamas but also about how to get out — and how to do it with the fewest civilian casualties possible.

While the president expressed deep understanding of Israel’s moral and strategic dilemma, he pleaded with Israeli military and political leaders to learn from America’s rush to war after Sept. 11, which took our troops deep into the dead ends and dark alleys of unfamiliar cities and towns in Iraq and Afghanistan.

However, from everything I have gleaned from senior U.S. officials, Biden failed to get Israel to hold back and think through all the implications of an invasion of Gaza for Israel and the United States. So let me put this in as stark and clear language as I can, because the hour is late:

I believe that if Israel rushes headlong into Gaza now to destroy Hamas — and does so without expressing a clear commitment to seek a two-state solution with the Palestinian Authority and end Jewish settlements deep in the West Bank — it will be making a grave mistake that will be devastating for Israeli interests and American interests.

It could trigger a global conflagration and explode the entire pro-American alliance structure that the United States has built in the region since Henry Kissinger engineered the end of the Yom Kippur War in 1973.

I am talking about the Camp David peace treaty, the Oslo peace accords, the Abraham Accords and the possible normalization of relations between Israel and Saudi Arabia. The whole thing could go up in flames.

This is not about whether Israel has the right to retaliate against Hamas for the savage barbarism it inflicted on Israeli men, women, babies and grandparents. It surely does. This is about doing it the right way — the way that does not play into the hands of Hamas, Iran and Russia.

If Israel goes into Gaza and takes months to kill or capture every Hamas leader and soldier but does so while expanding Jewish settlements in the West Bank — thereby making any two-state solution there with the more moderate Palestinian Authority impossible — there will be no legitimate Palestinian or Arab League or European or U.N. or NATO coalition that will ever be prepared to go into Gaza and take it off Israel’s hands.

There will be no one to extract Israel and no one to help Israel pay the cost of caring for more than two million Gazans — not if Israel is run by a government that thinks, and acts, as if it can justifiably exact its revenge on Hamas while unjustifiably building an apartheidlike society run by Jewish supremacists in the West Bank. That is a completely incoherent policy.

Alas, though, a senior U.S. official told me that the Biden team left Jerusalem feeling that while Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of Israel understands that overreach in Gaza could set the whole neighborhood ablaze, his right-wing coalition partners are eager to fan the flames in the West Bank. Settlers there have killed at least seven Palestinian civilians in acts of revenge in just the past week.

Meanwhile, U.S. officials told me, the representatives of those settlers in the cabinet are withholding tax money owed the Palestinian Authority, making it harder for it to keep the West Bank as under control as it has been since the start of the Hamas war.

Netanyahu should not allow this, but he has trapped himself. He needs those right-wing extremists in his coalition to keep himself out of jail on corruption charges.

But he is going to put all of Israel into the jail of Gaza unless he breaks with those Jewish supremacists.

Unfortunately, the senior U.S. official told me, Israeli military leaders are actually more hawkish than the prime minister now. They are red with rage and determined to deliver a blow to Hamas that the whole neighborhood will never forget.

I understand why. But friends don’t let friends drive while enraged. Biden has to tell this Israeli government that taking over Gaza without pairing it with a totally new approach to settlements, the West Bank and a two-state solution would be a disaster for Israel and a disaster for America.

We can help, we can even insist, that our Arab and European allies work to create a more effective, less corrupt and more legitimate Palestinian Authority in the West Bank that, after some transition in Gaza, could help govern there as well. But not without a fundamental change in Israeli policy toward the PA and the Jewish settlers.

Otherwise, what began as a Hamas onslaught against Israel has the potential to trigger a Middle East war with every great power and regional power having a hand in it — which would make it very difficult to stop once it started.

In the first week of this conflict, the supreme leader of Iran and Hassan Nasrallah, the leader of the Hezbollah militia in Lebanon, appeared to be keeping very tight control of their militiamen on the border with Israel and in Iraq, Syria and Yemen. But as the second week has gone on, U.S. officials have picked up increasing signs that both leaders are letting their forces more aggressively attack Israeli targets and that they might attack American targets if the United States intervenes. They smell the logic of how much an Israeli invasion of Gaza could help their goal of driving America out of the whole region.

On Thursday, a U.S. Navy warship in the northern Red Sea shot down three cruise missiles and several drones, apparently launched by the pro-Iranian Houthi militia in Yemen, that might have been headed toward Israel. More missiles, likely from pro-Iranian militias, were fired at U.S. forces in Iraq and Syria.

So many rockets are now coming from the pro-Iranian Hezbollah militia in South Lebanon that we are one degree away from a full-scale missile war between Israel and Iran’s proxies — and very possibly directly between Israel and Iran.

Israel is not likely to let Iran use its proxies to hit Israel without eventually firing a missile directly at Tehran. Israel has missile-armed submarines that are probably in the Persian Gulf as we speak. If that gets going, it’s Katie, bar the door.

The United States, Russia and China could all be drawn in directly or indirectly.

What makes the situation triply dangerous is that even if Israel acts with herculean restraint to prevent civilian deaths in Gaza, it won’t matter. Think of what happened at Gaza City’s Ahli Arab Hospital on Tuesday.

As the Israeli columnist Nahum Barnea pointed out to me, Palestinian Islamic Jihad achieved more this week with an apparently misfired rocket “than it achieved in all of its successful missile launches.”

How so? After that rocket failed and fell on the Palestinian hospital in Gaza, killing scores of people, Hamas and Islamic Jihad rushed out and claimed — with no evidence — that Israel had deliberately bombed the hospital, setting streets ablaze across the Arab world. When Israel and the United States offered compelling evidence a few hours later that Islamic Jihad accidentally hit the Gaza hospital with its own rocket, it was already too late. The Arab street was on fire, and a meeting of Arab leaders with Biden was canceled.

If people cannot talk openly and honestly about a misfired rocket, imagine what will happen when the first major Israeli invasion of Gaza begins in our wired world, linked by social networks and polluted with misinformation amplified by artificial intelligence.

That is why I believe that Israel would be much better off framing any Gaza operation as “Operation Save Our Hostages” — rather than “Operation End Hamas Once and for All” — and carrying it out, if possible, with repeated surgical strikes and special forces that can still get the Hamas leadership but also draw the brightest possible line between Gazan civilians and the Hamas dictatorship.

But if Israel feels it must reoccupy Gaza to destroy Hamas and restore its deterrence and security — I repeat — it must pair that military operation with a new commitment to pursue a two-state solution with those Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza ready to make peace with Israel.

The hour is late. I have never written a column this urgent before because I have never been more worried about how this situation could spin out of control in ways that could damage Israel irreparably, damage U.S. interests irreparably, damage Palestinians irreparably, threaten Jews everywhere and destabilize the whole world.

I beg Biden to tell Israelis this immediately — for their sake, for America’s sake, for the sake of Palestinians, for the sake of the world.

Friedman is out of touch. Oslo Accords are already dead and buried. And what makes him think the Israelis will listen to Biden?

The Oslo accords had all the ducks in a row and were earmarked for successful agreement until Arafat dropped a deal breaker at the last minute like a bomb, proving the whole process by the Palestinian side was a bad faith charade.

Team Taylor!

Friedman is so right on about the looming disaster. It’s what you expect when religious fundamentalists are making the calls.

If anyone on DL ever expresses any modicum of support for a republican, living or dead, immediately we hear the chorus that the poster is a self-hating gay. 'They hate us' is the constant refrain. Why does that sentiment not apply as universally here for support of Hamas?

^^^^^ Because we are NOT supporting Hamas, hon.

We are supporting the notion of the Israeli government refraining from using phosphorus bombs and stopping from exploding hospital while claiming that Palestinians are the ones doing that. We are also against Israel invading Palestinian territory, like it has being doing for the past 60 years and claiming that the territory is theirs because of scriptures.

If scriptures were meant to be taken seriously, than same-sex marriage would NOT exist.

Plus, the world does revolve around you, you cannot bring the gay issue into every single discussion; the USA itself is a homophobic and terribly racist country IF analyzed exclusively through the lens of states like Wyoming, Idaho, North Dakota, Nebraska,Mississippi, Arkansas, Oklahoma... it DOES NOT mean that people from these states can be expelled from their land and murdered with bombs and machine guns in the name of "progressism".

People born in the Westbank are just as human as you are, they also have a story to tell, and they cannot be murdered because they are Muslims.

This war, contrary to what alienated Americans have been fed by the western media is NOT a war of Muslims vs. Jews, it's a war for territory based on imperialist values.

NOT EVERYBODY born in Palestine is Muslim and not every Israeli is a jew.

Oh thank god, finally the neglected Team Israel voice is heard on the DL.

It’s almost as quiet here as the Team Royal Family voice.

And about as deranged.

Anscher and Co don’t feel comfortable unless there are at least seventy five threads a day saying “Palestinians deserve to be exterminated by my people who want to steal all their land, DON’T YOU AGREE? They may not be as progressive on gay rights as New Yorkers or Londoners, so genocide surely should be committed against them as a result.”

So. This is apparently perfectly justified (don’t click if you’re queasy):

Why didn’t South Africa drop fuel-air bombs on all the Zulu villages? I mean, those Zulus were not at all gay-friendly!

ConcernedEuropean clearly the smartest person on the thread.

👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👍🏼

[quote] And this new anti semitic sentiment disguised as progressive care for Palestinian cause

The final defense of the indefensible — any criticism of Israel is anti-semitism!

It’s right up there with QAnon in terms of logic.

CE is certainly the most affected and pompous kaween in the thread. Her Hamas disinformation and rabid anti-semitism is indefensible

R46 That really never happened? Gee, I wish someone would’ve told me.

Anti-semitism is vile, whether on the right or the left.

Right wing propaganda disguised as protectionism and progressivism is vile, genocide is vile.

Islam is a mental disorder.

"Israel has been occupying Gaza and the West Bank for years”

They won them fair and square...the maps around Eastern Europe seems to change with every war but only the Jewsish state has to return land they won after attack after attack....

Tell me again why there is no Yugoslavia or Czechoslovakia anymore?

Butcha are an anti-semite, Blanche, you are, R138. Enjoy the company you keep with your fellow travelers.

[quote] If scriptures were meant to be taken seriously, than same-sex marriage would NOT exist.

Why should any "scriptures" be taken seriously?

[quote] People born in the Westbank are just as human as you are, they also have a story to tell, and they cannot be murdered because they are Muslims.

[quote] This war, contrary to what alienated Americans have been fed by the western media is NOT a war of Muslims vs. Jews, it's a war for territory based on imperialist values.

[quote] NOT EVERYBODY born in Palestine is Muslim and not every Israeli is a jew.

So which is it? People are being murdered because they are Muslim, or this has nothing to with Muslims vs. Jews?

R140 Because UN Resolution 242 was made "specially" for the Jewish State. It's OK for other countries to secure their borders. When Israel acquired land after being attacked, 242 was born.

"United Nations Security Council Resolution 242 was adopted unanimously by the UN Security Council on November 22, 1967, in the aftermath of the Six-Day War. It was adopted under Chapter VI of the UN Charter. The resolution was sponsored by British ambassador Lord Caradon and was one of five drafts under consideration."

You are correct R140, except that Czechoslovakia split peacefully.

Oh right R141 having empathy, decency and compassion for fellow human beings makes us Anti-Semitic nowadays...

👍🏼😜😂

I can't believe Israel still hasn't started bombing them yet. Mind blown.

[quote] Oh right [R141] having empathy, decency and compassion for fellow human beings makes us Anti-Semitic nowadays...

It does when it's extended only to those in the conflict who were were responsible for - & euphoric at - the slaughter of civilian Jews, young & old. To people whose lives are arranged around that pursuit. Who don't even believe in a two-state solution because they refuse to recognize the long-suffering Jews the right to their own state.

What they refuse R141 is to have Israeli people invading their land and claiming as theirs, they welcomed the Zionists in 1947, only to start being kicked out of their country that they had occupied for more than 1000 years.

Israel should have been satisfied with thr share of land they had in the 1950s, instead of seizing land that didn't belong to them in the first place.

Plus, Palestinians aren't terrorists, that's white propaganda, Palestinian nurses, doctors, housewives and children haven't bombed anyone, Hamas did.

Yes they are a terrorist group, but they haven't just appeared out of the blue, Israel's actions over the past six decades has contributed for their hatred and radicalization.

If I am supposed to feel empathy (which I do) for some 300 Israelites, how am I supposed to feel for more than 10 000 palestinians?

They are made of flesh and bones too.

R135 and yet you haven’t disproven or even addressed a single point made by CE. He is by far the most intelligent poster here on this conflict and the history behind it. Unlike idiotic brainwashed Americans like yourself.

R149, I don’t give two fucks in a dead cat’s ass what you “think” about anything, retard. You’ve seen roughly 10% of my posts on the matter. Like most Trumptards, you have no sense of history, anthropology, sociology, geopolitics, or common sense. You certainly have no idea about anything regarding me, diseased cuntress. The fact that you so readily accept GRU propaganda (look it up) as “facts” says much more about your lack of intellect than I ever could. You are a partisan simpleton with no analytical skills or facts on your side. The regurgitation of Hamas disinformation by CE reveals no special skills or insightful information whatsoever.

Israel is committing genocide on innocent Palestinians.

The “Palestinians” continue with their 1948 pledge to “drive the Jews into the sea,” including 200,000 Black Israelis. This is racist genocide.

The IDF has never beheaded anyone. Hamas beheaded 40 infants and toddlers at Kfar Aza.

[quote]Israel is committing genocide on innocent Palestinians.

And the guilty ones they just leave alone? Do better, propagandist.

R150, Trumptard? LOL. That’s beyond hilarious. Go check my post history, which goes far back and easily disproves that.

Now, aside from your overly emotional bitchy rant filled with ad hominems and zero substance: could you please direct us to an example of “Hamas disinformation by CE”? Because I didn’t see any yet.

Please, wow us with your superior knowledge of history, anthropology, sociology, geopolitics, and common sense.

R150 is triggered. Triggered you asked her to substantiate a claim!

Is r150 that ugly fuckface Matt A.?

It’s your mother, calling you to hose out her cooch after a hard night of work.

Read a book, R155. Perhaps the GED Civics study guide would be a start.

Ironically, hideous Matty seems to forget that Trump and the Trumptards are “team Israel”….

Oh, okay, r159 - so in other words, facts you can’t accept = “Hamas disinformation.” Glad we settled that.

You spelled “ironically” correctly in a sentence! You also spelled it correctly!

Maybe the Palestinians can just go to Europe and live off taxpayers like all the other Arabs do.

[quote][R149], I don’t give two fucks in a dead cat’s ass what you “think” about anything

r149 doesn't display for me, but I was curious to see what you were addressing. I know r149 only as "ignored poster 1".

I don’t have to prove a thing to you, R155. You’re a moronic partisan with absolutely zero information to share, or facts to prove your bizarre claims. Clearly, YOU are triggered, toofless Trumptard.

R165, I’m not the one who made a claim — in this case, that certain statements made here (by CE) are “Hamas disinformation.”

Again, why are you unable to point to a SINGLE example of this?

If you can’t prove it, then shut your retarded mouth.

Yikes…

Who they are…

Iran is the main supporter of Hamas…how many of these local trolls are supporting Hamas?

^ deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect, deflect

I hear something in the next room…

It was a sneaky terrorist attack on Israel.

I can see the Palestinian point of view on many levels. In this instance, Hamas has fucked them over for years to come. I don't know what the solution is, no one has ever known and I've been watching these people kill each other for more than 50 years. This is not the way to get anyone to go for a two state solution. No one is going to listen to that proposal after this attack. It was stupid and evil and the Palestinian people will pay a heavy price for the terrorism of Hamas.

Team Israel.

Queen Rania: There's a 'glaring double standard' in how world treats Palestinians

Brilliant, eloquent and compassionate explanation of the barbarism and war crimes being perpetuated by Israel.

Watch...

Truth is lies, Black is white…

Like Hitler, Hamas was elected…

"And the guilty ones they just leave alone?"

The guilty ones? Is Israel really that concerned about Hamas terrorists? Is it really?

Is that why they have been bombing CHILDREN and HOSPITALS?

Can you imagine all the whining if Hezbollah manages to bomb and destroy a mall or a supermarket in Tel Aviv?

Because according to Israeli logic, that's how you conduct a war.

Voting shouldn’t be punishable by execution

Is Islamic Jihad still bombing hospitals in Gaza?

Did Kfar Aza vote for Hamas?

Hamas wants us dead. End. Of. Discussion.

I'll always be on the side that doesn't behead people. Period.

Israel is committing genocide on innocent Palestinians. Israel is blockading food, water, fuel and electricity and raining down bombs turning neighborhoods into rubble. Yes, Hamas is evil, but this response is disproportionate and killing thousands of innocent people. Hospitals are shutting down because they cannot care for the injured. Again, yes, Hamas is evil, but is Israel any better because it incinerated a baby with a bomb?

Genocide is deliberately targeting an ethnic group for their identity. Not going to war. This is called genocide did dramatic effect, and to shame Israelis by linking them to Nazis.

Yes, Israel is better than Hamas. That does not put them above criticism. But the Allies were not the same as the Nazis because civilians died in World War II.

A dead baby is a tragedy under any circumstance. But there is a vast difference between intentionally killing a child and a child who is a victim of war. It’s incomprehensible to me that this needs to be explained.

[quote] is Israel any better because it incinerated a baby with a bomb?

Can you show any baby incinerated by Israeli bomb that wasn’t caused by the Palestinians/Hamas? All effects of the current Israeli operations in Gaza are caused by Hamas, so that rules out anything recent.

R183. What would we do without you putting everything in a neat little box? But of course, the Jews are all innocent, and the Palestinians are all wrong. So when Israel ravages a town and Palestinian home in the West Bank to build an illegal settlement and a Palestinian gets killed, that seems to be fine with you. They may not be technically at war, but Palestinians still died. But with your logic, that okay.

That’s YOUR logic, r185, jumping from Gaza to West Bank.

R184. You know nothing. Israel is killing innocent Palestinians by dropping bombs on apartment building that have nothing to do with Hamas. No one has to show you proof. Watch the news if the media will even cover it. Babies are showing up in hospitals burnt all over their bodies and they are dying because Israel has denied medical supplies and electricity rendering the Palestinian health care inoperable. Two days ago, a nine-year old Palestinian boy arrived at a hospital with a half-severed foot because of a bomb blowing up his apartment building. The doctors had to amputate the boy's foot with only pain suppressors and NO anesthesia. Israel was at fault. But you'll probably respond by saying something like, "Oh, that's just a casualty of war." Tell that to the boy with no foot or whose grandmother died because her apartment was bombed with one of the 6,000 bombs dropped on innocent people.

Yes, Hamas is evil. But Israel's response is entirely disproportionate and barbaric. And just because Hamas is evil, not everything Israel does it right or moral.

R186. Israel has created open-air prisons in Gaza and the West Bank. It's basically all the same. Israel restricts movement and any kind of freedom. People talk about pushing the Jews into the sea. The Jews are doing the same by stealing land meant for Palestine and restricting movement of two million people crowded into a tiny strip of land.

And no it is not possible to entirely evacuate the northern Gaza Strip, put everyone into the south and then seal the borders so hardly any of the general population can get through the one border opening--that is only occasionally open--and have somewhat safe passage to Egypt and the Sinai Peninsula. Oh yes--all with no water, food, fuel or electricity because Israel is restricting trucks, supplies and passage.

This whole thing is colonialism At play. As it is Jews and Palestinians are trying to outbreed each other. If the USA loves the Jewish homeland idea just bring the Jews to Utah and let them fight it out with the Mormons. Personally I’m sick of paying taxes to an endless war machine. As it is I worked my whole life and won’t be able to afford to retire ever. All our wealth is going to the war machine. We get credit as long as we’re behaving. Now we’re supposed to pay to arm these breeders and send supplies to the other breeders.

[quote]Israel has created open-air prisons in Gaza and the West Bank.

First, exit from Gaza is controlled by Israel and Egypt. As far as "prison," I can show you lots of photos of pre-war Gaza that look nothing like a prison.

[quote] It's basically all the same. Israel restricts movement and any kind of freedom.

No, they're not the same. Some parts of the West Bank are under Palestinian control. And Palestinians in Gaza can travel into Jordan without restriction by Israel.

That you can't make these distinctions, and, instead, rely on tropes and cliches indicates you're not likely to post anything useful.

Saying that Gaza and the West Bank are the same is evidence that one knows nothing about this conflict, “babe.” No use arguing with the ignorant.

I'll "oh, dear, myself." That should read that Palestinians in the [bold]West Bank[/bold] can travel out without Israeli control, not Gaza. '

I have a very close relative, a Jew, who is, at a minimum, a white supremacist sympathizer, so I fully understand there are so-called progressive gays who cast their lot with intolerant religious fanatics who wish them dead. But I will never get it.

[quote] Israel is killing innocent Palestinians by dropping bombs on apartment building that have nothing to do with Hamas.

Everything that Israel is doing in Gaza at the moment is the fault of Hamas. Hamas is responsible for the death of anyone that is killed.

Beheading infants and toddlers is not remotely human. Hamas deserves whatever it gets. Gazans elected Hamas. Gazans know all about the beheadings, tunnels, etc. Civilian Gazans poured through the fence to collect kibbutzniks as hostages so they could sell them later. These are not the actions of a civilized people. These bloodthirsty animals deserve whatever they get.

R194 R195. Israel is dropping bombs on innocent Palestinians. Despite Hamas' barbarism, Israel's response is also barbaric--just a different type of barbarism. It is also collective punishment on innocent people including innocent children--again, a different form of barbarism. Also, Hamas has not allowed elections since 2005. So thousands upon thousands of Palestinian people did not elect Hamas.

Om a different note regarding the West Bank, Israel is stealing Palestinian land. tearing down Palestinian towns so the most radical Jews can build illegal settlements on land that does not belong to them. Everything Israel does is not right, just or moral. Yes, Hamas beheading babies is not remotely human, but Israel dropping bombs and incinerating children is not remotely human either. Hamas is wrong for what it did on Oct 7. However, Israel does not hold the moral high ground for its excessive and indiscriminate bombing or its treatment of the Palestinians regarding Israel stealing land and the right to freedom by the Palestinians. Netanyahu and his government are ruthless and hateful.

If the Israelis are guilty of genocide, they have got to be the worst possible people in the world at it when you look at the booming Palestinian population/age range. And all this time I thought at least Jews were competent. The Germans managed to cut the Jewish population in half in a few years, just look at the Palestinian population.

[quote] Israel is dropping bombs on innocent Palestinians.

Israel is dropping bombs on military targets. Non-Hamas civilians are killed by these bombs. Hamas is that cynical. It cares about Palestinian civilians so little it is willing to embed military targets in residential areas, in hospitals, in universities, near schools.

Civilians are killed in war. Always. It's awful. War should be avoided for this among other reasons. But killing civilians in pursuit of a military target is not a war crime.

The conflict can't be reduced to asinine "teams"

Americans will never accept that exterminating civilians in pursuit of terrorists is a war crime.

[QUOTE] The conflict can't be reduced to asinine "teams"

Well Biden was referring to them as teams.

Biden says he has ‘no confidence’ in Palestinian death toll

Jennifer Jett

President Joe Biden said yesterday that he has “no confidence” in the death toll being provided by Palestinian officials, who say more than 6,500 people, including 2,700 children, have been killed by Israeli retaliatory strikes in the Gaza Strip since the Oct. 7 terrorist attack by Hamas.

“I have no notion that the Palestinians are telling the truth about how many people are killed,” Biden said at a joint news conference with Australian Prime Minister Anthony Albanese. “I’m sure innocents have been killed, and it’s the price of waging a war.”

Biden said Israel should be “incredibly careful” to minimize civilian casualties, but that he had “no confidence in the number that the Palestinians are using,” without saying why.

The Council on American-Islamic Relations, a Muslim civil rights and advocacy group based in Washington, condemned Biden’s remarks as “dehumanizing” and called on him to apologize.

“Journalists have confirmed the high number of casualties, and countless videos coming out of Gaza every day show mangled bodies of Palestinian women and children,” executive director Nihad Awad said in a statement.

He added that CAIR had received 774 complaints, including reported bias incidents, since the war began, a spike the group says is “driven at least in part by irresponsible rhetoric from government officials.”

⬆️ From NBC News

Muslims and Arabs are not indigenous to the land of the Israel, North Africa or anywhere other than Saudi Arabia. They wiped out whole cultures and peoples from Spain to Indonesia. There is nothing peaceful about Islam. Mohammade preached peace and got nowhere. It was when he became violent and preached violence that Arabs flocked to him.

Israel is Jewish and always has been and will always remain Jewish.

Israel was historically Jewish (even according to the Koran) and is currently Jewish. The current Jewish majority is largely (mostly) thanks to Jews being exiled from Muslim countries. When people look at Jews they consider the claim either too far back or too recent, but, of course...it's not antisemitism.

Palestine was the name of the place....at that point, there were no PALESTINIANS . The people that were there have always been Jews and Arabs... Israel SHOULD abandon Gaza completely at this point and let the “Palestinians do 100% for them self..Israel should remove the desalinization plants they installed in Gaza, them them provide themselves with electric and water and see how long they last

R206 In reality, the Jews were the.called Palestinians and the Arabs were called Arabs during Ottoman and British Mandate times.

This is r206, yes you're right... the Arabs are arabs and will always be Arabs

Biden (and everyone else) has a good reason to have "no notion that the Palestinians are telling the truth". It is ingrained in the Islamic religion both in the Koran and Hadiths. According to Surah 3:28-30;

(3:28) The believers may not take the unbelievers for their allies in preference to those who believe. Whoever does this has nothing to do with Allah unless he does so in order to protect himself from their wrong-doing. Allah warns you to beware of Him for it is to Allah that you will return. (3:29) Say: 'Whether you conceal what is in your hearts or disclose it, Allah knows it. Allah knows what is in the heavens and in the earth and He has power over everything.' (3:30) The Day is approaching when every soul shall find itself confronted with whatever good it has done and whatever evil it has wrought. It will then wish there is a wide space between it and the Day! Allah warns you to beware of Him; He is most tender towards His servants.

According to Dr. Sami Mukaram, an Islamic studies professor specializing in taqiyya, and author of the only academic book exclusively devoted to it, "Taqiyya in order to deceive the enemy is permissible." Mukaram documents two canonical anecdotes from Muhammad's Sunna—his example to Muslims—that make clear that the prophet allowed his followers to lie and deceive non-Muslims above and beyond the issue of self-preservation.

Mentioned in numerous Hadiths: The Assassination of Ka'b ibn Ashraf-

An elderly Jewish leader, Ka'b ibn Ashraf, mocked Muhammad, prompting the prophet to exclaim, "Who will kill this man who has hurt Allah and his messenger?" A young Muslim named Ibn Maslama volunteered on condition that to get close enough to Ka'b to murder him, he needed permission to lie to the Jew.

Allah's messenger agreed. Ibn Maslama traveled to Ka'b and began to complain about Muhammad until his disaffection from Islam became so convincing that Ka'b eventually dropped his guard and befriended him.

After behaving as his friend for some time, Ibn Maslama eventually appeared with another Muslim also pretending to have apostatized. Then, while a trusting Ka'b's guard was done, they attacked and slaughtered him, bringing his head to Muhammad to the usual triumphant cries of "Allahu Akbar!"

Fuck Palestine. Blow them off the map and let the chips fall where they may. This world is over.

The Arabs on my instagram feed are all over this, calling Isreael’s response a “genocide.” Who the fuck do they think started this whole thing?

The Arabs are the African-Americans of the Middle East. They are always the victim, they are always right, and liberals will always make an excuse for them when they commit a heinous crime.

Muslims are capable of saying with complete lack of irony, you made me behead you. This perpetual perception of victimization started with mohammade and it is rife in the koran. I am amazed by how many Westerners know next to nothing about islam, the koran and the ongoing islamic conquest and don't want to know. I am shocked by how little muslims know and who go ballistic if you tell them one of the thousands of horrific facts about islamic history.

"Who the fuck do they think started this whole thing?"

Israel, who had no business in trying to expand its territory by stealing land that wasn't theirs in the first place.

Nothing can justify the actions Israel has been taking over the past 15 days.

R214 has green hair and zee/zir pronouns.

R215 has white supremacist tendencies and a republican family.

R216 Should move to Gaza with his boyfriend and live happily every after until they chop off your balls and shove them in your mouth.

R212 is hilarious.

And you should go work at a Palestinian hospital to see the corpses of babies and children with your own right-wing eyes R217 and to risk having a phosphorous bomb 💣 being dropped on your head; by racists who will them claim that you killed yourself.

R219, I'm certainly not celebrating the deaths of children in Gaza, children who have been starved and oppressed by Hamas.

Israel have warned citizens to leave which many of them have, despite Hamas stopping some, blowing up cars leaving and blaming a hospital fire on Israel.

R219 That’s just fewer of them to grow up to be terrorists, and fewer of them to grow up to have more kids and brainwash them too.

R220 Their biggest oppressor is still Israel, who steals their land, leave them orphaned, and them laughs when thirteen year old girls get raped by Israeli soldiers.

Not to mention all the war crimes committed by Israel, who them claims through their propaganda machine that the ALL the civilians and children in Palestine are getting killed by Hamas.

_________

Typical retard Zionist Narrative R221, labeling a WHOLE group of people, most of them who have NEVER touched a gun in their lives as "terrorists" and them using this goddamn label to try to justify MURDERING them.

Based on your wonderful logic babies of MAGA republicans in states such as Montana, Idaho,Nebraska,Kansas.... should get murdered too, so we avoid future generations of anti-vax racists and homophobes.

R222 What Israeli soldiers are raping underage Palestinian girls?

^^^^^

The fact that you don't know this R223, shows why you have fallen prey to right wing propaganda.

By the way is one of the MOST common war crimes in the world. It turns out ISIS members aren't the only psychos attracted to barely teenage yet girls.

R224 is a left wing nut job.

The BBC just had live footage from Khan Yunis in Gaza. People out and about shopping, no bombs, no refugees and no crisis.

R224 should probably be ignored. He's never been to the Middle East and just has decided to believe propaganda. I know he doesn't know anything first hand about Israel. The minute "racist" is used to describe the Arab-Israeli conflict, I just turn them off. They know not what they speak of. Anyone that saw the average Israeli knows they are the same race/colour as the average Arab. It's a dead give away.

Pink gets it.

PINK GETS IT!

^Nuance and complexity don’t get rewarded on DL either.

R228 Will she get canceled for being a Jew lover now? She didn't say or imply that she supported Israel, but she did dare to criticize Hamas which could be interpreted as not giving her total and unconditional support for Palestinians.

Dumbfuck R227

The racism is coming from you, white Americans who think you can label any brown middle eastern person as a TERRORIST. That's nothing but OLD RIGHT WING PROPAGANDA and right wing dehumanization of others.

Another sign of your right-wing brainwashing is labeling Palestineans as 'arabs' or blindly believing that Israeli people really see themselves as non-whites because they aren't as pink as your ass from Kentucky or worse, that they see themselves as Palestineans and other middle-easterners.

Please, tell me again about how Isarel is not a racist country....

[quote]Journalists (with a longstanding agenda) have confirmed the (imaginary) high number of casualties, and countless videos coming out of Gaza every day (staged by Hamas and lapped up by activist stooges) show (seemingly) mangled bodies of Palestinian women and children (enhanced by crude theatrical makeup).

FTFY.

R231 is rude asshole and now...on ignore. Bet that will clear this thread up. Try it!

R233 will be making an appearance on Libs of TikTok soon. My guess is she’s either one of those Afro-centrist fatsos in an African head wrap who blames white people for her own failures or one of those sexless blue haired angels who blames white people for everything despite being white.

Stupid gurlina at R231, you are the one who is xenophobic bigot piece of shit who doesn't respect the culture if Middle eastern people. Arabs care for subsaharan black Africans even less than Israeli do and you would hear even worse slurs about blacks from them. Middle eastern people were not raised in politically correct hypocrite western culture. They don't have a the same filters you have, that prevents them to speak their minds on certain topics that are taboo in your society. They have different taboos. Modern Israeli people are mixture of Ashkenazi jew who came from Europe and tend to be more liberal, but in large part they are made of Mizrahi jews who came to Israel from other Middle eastern countries and Sephardi, who ised to live in the countries that made former Turkish empire. Both Mizrahi and Sephardi were not raised in western culture, they were raised in oriental cultures and tend to be conservative and right wing. Big part of Israeli people is mixture of these subgroups.

Your bias shows your liberal subconcious racism. Since you see Jews as white people, you put higher standards on them, while you put lower expectations on people you see as POC. Some of you false progressives are worse than Maga.

I wish my ass was pink.

R234 You are definitely confusing me for another poster. If you block that poster, even temporarily, the entire thread changes. He/she is very aggressive and vocal, but pretty much the only one in this tread with extreme one-sided Pro-Palestinian/anti-Israeli views. He called me American, which is true as I was born there. I'm now in Europe and lived 3 years in Israel. Completely wrong about Kentucky and Republican family. Family is liberal Democrats/civil amd rights activists in th 60's. I had him pegged as a juvenile American. That's how he (or she) comes across. -233

If Israel only targeted the extremists I'd be on their side. But they have demonstrated they couldn't care less about all the innocent people in Gaza. I believe Israel is actively conducting genocide in Gaza. They want as many men, women, & children Palestinians as possible to be killed.

I keep hope alive that somehow, some day, someone will take care of Netanyahu for good. He is as evil as they come.

[quote] I believe Israel is actively conducting genocide in Gaza.

I believe Henry Cavill would ask me to suck his dick if he met me but it doesn’t make it true.

[QUOTE] the Arabs are arabs and will always be Arabs

That's deep.

I just read that Bibi and his crooked bitch wife and child have decamped to a palatial mansion somewhere in Israel that has a nuclear bunker underneath it.

As Rhonda Raghead now knows, they fucked around and found out.

"Since you see Jews as white people, you put higher standards on them"

Hahahahaha, I don't see whites as uncriticizable, if I did, that would just contradict EVERYTHING you said before.

And no, I am not ignorant like right wing Americans, I don't see Jews as white, I see a lot of them as whites, and a lot of them as browns, and a lot of them as blacks SINCE UNLIKE YOUR KIND I know that Judaism is a RELIGION not a skin type, or a "race". And also guess what? Quite a lot of Palestineans are white, so your comment makes even LESS sense.

And again, what does this have to do Jews or Muslims?

This dichotomy is typical of goddamn American Right wingers, NOT everybody is Jewish in Israel and not everybody is Muslim in Palestine.

This isn't a war against Jews, this is a war for territory; territory that was STOLEN from palestineans with the help of UK.

And what would arabs being racist have to do with the war crimes of Israel?

If that justifies bombing children and housewives who have never even murdered anyone, then a lot of white republicans in FLYOVER USA and their babies would have to get killed too. But since those are your relatives, dumbfuck, you certainly wouldn't want that, would you?

That's exactly why I point out your white propaganda, and your white evilness, because you sense of "compassion" is extremely LIMITED and highly selective, you consider non-whites as barely humans, that's why you feel great about Israel's disproportionate response and their unjustified blood bath.

But please tell me again, about how Israel is super liberal, non-racist, perfectly united for one common goal and good, which would be to reunite all Jews in their "Sacred" land, well, apparently some Jews aren't valuable enough.....

More

[quote]This dichotomy is typical of goddamn American Right wingers, NOT everybody is Jewish in Israel and not everybody is Muslim in Palestine. This isn't a war against Jews, this is a war for territory; territory that was STOLEN from palestineans with the help of UK. And what would arabs being racist have to do with the war crimes of Israel?

"Palestineans"

And no, not everyone is Muslim in Palestine, but there are no Jews allowed in Palestine. There was a twitter account called Rabbi Linda Goldstein who was based in Gaza who would get rabid antisemites to DM "her". You'd think anyone with a basic knowledge of Gaza would have known about their Judenfrei policy.

R230, she identifies as a Jew herself.

R243 Girl, you are getting hysterical. Take a deep breath.

Boy R247 I see nothing hysterical about babies and toddlers getting destroyed by phosphorus bombs.

People here are taking deep breaths and choosing sides because bombs are not being dropped on their backyards.

Those who are blindly defending Israel here, might as well defend Putin and his craziness, as far as I can see.

R248, do you have evidence that babies and toddlers have been destroyed by phosphorous bombs?

In the late 1930s, many Americans didn’t want Jewish refugees fleeing Nazi Germany to come here. They thought the Jews would steal jobs from native born citizens. So the US didn’t take many in.

On the other hand, German immigration to the USA was very low.

So, using OP’s own calculations, Americans would have been completely justified in supporting the Nazis over the fleeing Jews. Because we are supposed to discount whos the aggressor and who is the victim of aggression, and just prefer whomever is “better for us.”

R249 LOL, I can't completely escape that nut case when you keep quoting him! He just makes shit up! You can't reason with people like that. It's like with people that keep saying the IDF blew up that Gaza hospital that has been proven to be false. Not that I think Hezbollah or Hamas intentionally blew up their own hospital, but they did do it. It's called "friendly fire". I'm sure the explosive was intended for Jews.

Laughable comment R249, do you actually read the news or watch news broadcasts that do not come from Fox news before forming your opinions?

Or do you just repeat what the other whites have been saying around you since forever?

I've started seeing videos of Israeli soldiers AKA pigs, terrorizing Palestinian citizens, including children about ten years ago. They're all over the internet.

Before that, back in 2009 and 2010 I also used to say,

'Oh, but Israel has the right to defend itself from all these angry terrorists'

Then.... I became educated on the subject, and learned that Israel is not a saint and not innocent in this story.

So, that's a no? You have no evidence.

R250, that is wildly uninformed on a factual basis. The US accepted more Jews than any other country. France, who was second, sent most of their Jewish refugees to Auschwitz once they were conquered. FDR used the quota system by allocating all European slots to admit Jews. His administration feared that if they pushed for more slots, they would be cut off altogether because of Americans’ xenophobia and anti-Semitism.

As for the weird choice about favoring Nazis over Jews, I can’t help you.

R252, my “laughable comment” was a question that you chose not to answer. Instead, you attacked me and accused me of being a Fox News junkie and regurgitating white people’s opinions.

What you did not do was provide evidence for your claim.

The internet is full of evidence R253, you don't really want me to put graphic images of corpses of babies and toddlers in here, do you?

Log on to twitter and they are easy to find, but tell me, the Palestinian boy with down's syndrome being abused by five Israeli soldiers, is he also a terrorist? According to the IDF he must be.

I asked for evidence of your claim, which is that phosphorous bombs have been used to kill toddlers and babies. I am well aware of the charges of phosphorous being used for illumination.

And yet, you change the subject to a video from before this conflict. Could you provide evidence of the claim you actually made at r248?

Dumbfuck R255, if I post pictures of dead Palestinians here, I'll possibly get banned.

Do you really think I will ban myself, so you can continue with your white RW propaganda unbothered and unchecked?

[quote]Then.... I became educated on the subject, and learned that Israel is not a saint and not innocent in this story.

r252, you show how wrong the West has been in dropping the ball by not combatting anti-Israel disinformation. There are a lot of people such as yourself who are easily susceptible to propaganda, and even in the face of the evidence of the terrorist attack on Israel and the incontrovertible evidence that the Israelis are the good guys and the Palestinian terrorists and everyone who supports them explicitly or tacitly are the bad guys, the people duped by the anti-Israel disinformation cling to it.

"And yet, you change the subject to a video from before this conflict."

Which is not unrelated to the thread, given that according to you and other propagandists Israel is "good" and innocent and can do no harm, if that's the case,then why was the shorter Palestinian boy with down's syndrome being abused by the IDF?

“Hitler was a vegetarian and nonsmoker, and there are all of these images of Roosevelt eating steak and smoking, so I’m team Hitler all the way.”

"that the Israelis are the good guys and the Palestinian terrorists"

Hahaha, typical bullshit American Propaganda, good guys do NOT STEAL LAND, do NOT label a whole nation as terrorists and DO NOT start murdering babies while claiming that's fighting 'terror'.

"Good guys" DON'T ever take out on innocent civilians, but of course, as a dumbfuck right winger you will not understand this until your own family gets killed, or until you lose an arm.

WAKE THE FUCK UP, a war is not a Hollywood movie, so you can root for the "good" guys.

r262, people like you who spread antisemitic disinformation and propaganda are definitely bad guys.

Thanks to the person who spoke up for me at R166 and elsewhere. Yes, any reasoned post in defence of the Palestinians gets labelled 'Hamas disinformation' and of course the persons making that charge are totally unable to substantiate it.

Ugh, the "anti-Semitic" label again, being used to justify war crimes and to target anyone who dares criticizing Israeli cowardness.

Gladly, the term loses its meaning by the minute

r265, if you don't want to be labeled as antisemitic, then stop being antisemitic. It's not complicated.

Thanks also to the people who brought up Israel's use of white phosphorus, which is in fact an extremely important point when it comes to the lenses we use to view this conflict.

White Phosphorus is a chemical weapon. Its use in civilian areas is banned under the Chemical Weapons Convention. As previously noted, it is poisonous, it sticks to the skin, burns flesh all the way down to the bone, and burns the lungs.

White phosphorus is also a gas. By definition, a chemical gas is not a precision weapon and its use can never possibly be said to be targeted. Gases drift around according to the prevailing winds. One does not justify one's use of a poison gas by claiming that a military unit was hiding in a hospital (or whatever justification you may like to give).

Below is a video of Israel attacking civilian areas in Gaza with white phosphorus. Bear in mind that the Gaza strip is the most densely populated place on earth. 2 million people live on approx. 365 square km of land.

Now, though Oct 7 exposed some of the weaknesses of the Israeli military, no-one can deny that Israel has almost total control of the air over Gaza, has a massive advantage in the weapons and military technology available to it, and also control Gaza's borders as well as its access to water, food, power, and medical supplies.

Given this massive material advantage, what then is the justification from 'Team Israel' for the IDF using a banned chemical weapon which cannot possibly be controlled or targeted in any way? Or do you all take the line offered by R221: the more Palestinians kids killed today, the fewer grow up to be terrorists tomorrow?

BTW Human Rights Watch has documented Israel's use of white phosphorus for over a decade in Gaza and in Lebanon: so don't bother tediously trying to deny it.

Or you could stop playing victim R266 and banalizing the term couldn't you?

Specially when Anti-zionist Jews exist and they are also critical of Israel's actions.

For the zillionth time, this isn't a war caused by religion, it's a war caused by the IMPERIALIST values of Israel.

White phosphorous is not a banned chemical, nor is Human Rights Watch a neutral observer of Israel. Nor has Israel signed the Chemical Weapons Convention.

The chemical is very incendiary, which is why bombs that intend to kill or burn civilians are horrifying. But it can also be used to illuminate at night or obfuscate during the day.

But the claim was made that white phosphorous bombs were killing children and toddlers. Evidence has not been provided for that. There’s a difference between shooting fireworks into the sky and aiming them at your neighbor.

R270 Ummm, from the very link you posted:

[quote] 2. It is prohibited in all circumstances to make any military objective located within a concentration of civilians the object of attack by air-delivered incendiary weapons.

and

[quote] 3. It is further prohibited to make any military objective located within a concentration of civilians the object of attack by means of incendiary weapons other than air-delivered incendiary weapons, except when such military objective is clearly separated from the concentration of civilians and all feasible precautions are taken with a view to limiting the incendiary effects to the military objective and to avoiding, and in any event to minimizing, incidental loss of civilian life, injury to civilians and damage to civilian objects.

The point is that Gaza is the most densely populated place on earth. There are no wide-open battlefields where the use of these weapons might be justified without significant risk of civilian casualties. Why then are you trying to justify their use?

I'm not sure why you think 'Israel has not signed the Chemical Weapons Convention' is a defense. Did Saddam Hussein sign it?

Concerned European, the charges from HRW are that white phosphorous was used over rural areas and the harbor, Israel denies using it at all. There is no evidence provided that it was used as munitions to kill toddlers and babies.

But, by your reasoning that Gaza is so dense that it cannot be attacked, the Israelis should have just done nothing after October 7. Is that correct?

R272 White Phosphorus is a chemical gas! If you release a poisonous gas in a built-up and heavily populated area, *you have no way of controlling who gets killed*!!! There is no possible way it can be targeted, and *if* it hasn't killed any children, then that is only because of extreme good fortune.

[quote] But, by your reasoning that Gaza is so dense that it cannot be attacked, the Israelis should have just done nothing after October 7. Is that correct?

Come now, that's not a good-faith reading of my posts. I was putting a question: since Israel has such clear and obvious superiority in terms of air control and in the range of weaponry available to it, why does it have to use such an indiscriminate and savage weapon? Why do you think that Israel uses it?

[quote]White Phosphorus is a chemical gas!

White phosphorus is not banned under the Chemical Weapons Convention. It is not a chemical weapon.

R274 We've been over this a few posts up: it is a chemical, and its use is banned in certain circumstances, such as in areas where there are lots of civilians.

Also, what kind of bizarre, shitty, legalistic, semantics-based defense are you really trying to run here?

Water is a chemical. Again, white phosphorus is not banned under the Chemical Weapons Convention.

[quote] The CWC is monitored by the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons, based in The Hague. Its spokesman Peter Kaiser was asked if WP was banned by the CWC and he had this to say: "No it's not forbidden by the CWC if it is used within the context of a military application which does not require or does not intend to use the toxic properties of white phosphorus. White phosphorus is normally used to produce smoke, to camouflage movement. If that is the purpose for which the white phosphorus is used, then that is considered under the Convention legitimate use. If on the other hand the toxic properties of white phosphorus, the caustic properties, are specifically intended to be used as a weapon, that of course is prohibited, because the way the Convention is structured or the way it is in fact applied, any chemicals used against humans or animals that cause harm or death through the toxic properties of the chemical are considered chemical weapons."

Concerned European, you seem to be missing the point. The accusation, denied by Israel, shows illumination in the sky. There has not been evidence or charges that these have been directed against people. A firework in the sky is one thing, in your face it’s another.

Does HRW have evidence or charges that Israel has harmed civilians with white phosphorous?

R278 A firework burns itself out in the sky then falls harmlessly to earth.

White Phosphorus does not just harmlessly dissipate in the sky or rise into the stratosphere. The reason it is banned in densely populated areas is (as I've said several times now) because it *cannot* be precisely targeted! It is a dense gas which, moreover, catches on fire spontaneously in the air.

Below is more footage of its use in Al-Jazeera reporting.

More evidence from Amnesty International:

[quote] Amnesty International’s Crisis Response Programme gathered compelling evidence documenting the use of white phosphorus artillery shells by the Israeli army in densely populated civilian areas in Gaza, many of which may be considered unlawful indiscriminate attacks..... In recent days, several pieces of video evidence suggest the use of 155mm white phosphorus artillery shells in northern Gaza. In particular, the Crisis Evidence Lab team was able to verify the attack that took place on Gaza harbour and nearby hotels

I find the beheading of 40 infants and toddlers far more offensive than any fiction about phosphorus. I find the deliberate and intentional murder of 1400 Jews to be more reminiscent of the Holocaust than any falsified numbers from The Hamas Public Health entity (the agency that demonstrably lied about the deliberate bombing of a hospital with 500 casualties). I find the deliberate taking of over 200 hostages, including over 20 children to be more barbaric than any false narrative a terrorist based media entity can spin. I find the deliberate placement of the Hana’s HQ in the basement of the largest hospital in Gaza to be the most cynical and manipulate act of this terrorist war on civilized people. Go ahead and stand with Hamas, just be honest about who and what you are. Btw, no government in the world tried to restrain the US government after 9/11. The calls for a ceasefire before the dismantling of Hamas are disingenuous and manipulative. Team Israel all the way.

CE is a shill for Hamas and GRU disinformation. Emblematic of the Jew hatred and revisionist history on US college campuses disseminated daily. Plan accordingly.

[quote]The point is that Gaza is the most densely populated place on earth.

That’s a ridiculous statement r271. San Francisco, with an area of about 47 sq mi, and a pop of about 700,000 (post-COVID) has about 15,000 people per sq mi, comparable to Gaza.

According to Newsweek (based on UN estimates) the density of Gaza is 15,600 people per square mile. There are at least 40 cities in the US more densely populated than Gaza.

R281: Show me how any of the evidence I posted about white phosphorus is 'fictional'. The Al-Jazeera footage? The Amnesty International documentation? The HRW evidence? Go on. Show your working. I dare you.

R283. 35 of those US cities have a population of under 75,000. Gaza has a population of well over 2 million. Let's be real here.

Is Concerned European Hitler and Eva’s secret baby?

C'mon R285 that didn't even make it over the net.

I see these gays and lesbians like those in r269 and im look like wow who would’ve thought that they were so many pro arab and islamophilic gay guys. Jajajaja however they don’t seem to care one bit about the various gay guys who were killed by hamas in that outdoor festival, how weird.

As someone who is neither jewish nor muslim/ arab, but a cuban of spanish ancestry decendant of men who fought against the arabs in iberia, I believe that the state of israel had to be founded in order to free the jews who were living among the arab mayority that brutally oppressed them. Therefore, the european jews were the liberators that put an end to the arab oppression of that jewish minority in the palestinian territory. In my opinion zionism is more than justified.

Reason #2 the creation of a prosperous and democratic country that is a safe heaven for gays and women persecuted by these savages more than justify zionism.

the mayority of gays and lesbians, here in south florida, hispanics and anglos in wilton manors and miami, support israel. I have not found any gays here in south florida that doesn’t support israel, in fact, the mayority of gays here are quite surprised at how a very tiny minority of pro Palestine idiots have become the voice of the “lgbt”community in the US.

I'm on the side I'm always on, mine.

In a stunning development, most people in South Florida are racist.

More at 11 where we keep you up to date with this breaking news story.

We need to make sure that the teaching of American history examines both sides of the story on slavery and communicates the fact that the slaves learned many useful transferable skills.

R230 apparently lives in an alternative reality, since literally the only people who’ve been canceled for statements on this conflict in the last few weeks have all been anti-Israel.

Imagine having so much American and Israeli propaganda so far up your ass that seriously defend the use of white phosphorus.

Well in all fairness R290, they did learn the fine art of victimhood.

R293 if they'd known the blacks would be this ungrateful I guess your ancestors would have picked their own cotton and raped their own sisters instead, right?

Jews are one of the few minorities CE can get away with demonizing in 2023. Openly racist bullshit. Stops just short of publicly endorsing total annihilation of Israel.

R294 I really can’t say. My family didn’t arrive in the US until the 1890s. In the North no less. And they were coal miners so I doubt they could have afforded any slaves even if they could have legally bought one.

I doubt Concerned European really lives in Europe. If he really lived around that many Arabs he wouldn’t be supporting them.

R295 I mean I shouldn't rise to the bait but really, show me one post where I demonise Jews - just one.

Criticising apartheid and backing self-determination and a sovereign state for both peoples isn't demonising Jews. Demonising a people is calling them savages and suggesting that the more of their children die, the fewer will grow up to be terrorists. That's going on in this thread, but not from me.

Here's my hometown R297, allow your tiny mind to be blown.

Duh, above ^^^^ was me.

Has Eva Braun (CE) recognised Israel’s right to exist???

I recognise the inalienable right of both Israelis and Palestinians to self-determination and to be citizens of a sovereign state R301.

You won't be able to say the same.

CE has never been to Israel or “Palestine,” yet is somehow an expert on both.

Lol R302 and you think Palestinians would ever honor that?

Lol, how the fuck do you know where I have or haven't been you lazy twat? R303

R304 I don't think the Palestinian people are savages or subhuman, there's the difference between me and you.

R305 You think that Palestinians would EVER acknowledge Israel’s right to exist? You really believe that? You’re that delusional?

R305, your posts are so brilliant, yet reveal the real you, “dipshit.”

Well look R306 try and switch off everything the decades of propaganda you've been exposed to has told you for one moment, and let's unpack this a little.

Egypt are a largely Arab and largely Muslim country. Egypt fought multiple wars with Israel. Egypt live under an authoritarian government with limited respect for human rights. Yet, Egypt and Israel have lived in peace for decades and concluded a successful land-for-peace deal. In fact, Egypt keeps the border with Gaza closed at Israel's request.

Jordan are also a largely Arab and largely Muslim country which fought wars with Israel and is a monarchy. Jordan has also lived in peace with Israel for decades.

Fuck, even Saudi Arabia were inching towards normalising relations with Israel until all this kicked off. Saudi is probably one of the worst and most oppressive countries on the planet. Its own citizens, particularly women, enjoy far less freedom than a Palestinian does in Ramallah. It has the death penalty for homosexuality. And yet the United States under Trump and Biden genuinely believed normalisation was possible and were working towards that goal.

So if the Egyptians, Jordans, and maybe one day the Saudis could acknowledge Israel's right to exist, why not the Palestinians? What is the special factor or circumstance that would make it impossible under any scenario? Let's also acknowledge that the PLO already formally did so in the Oslo accords.

Take your time, try and think through it all logically from first principles, and see what you can come up with. I dare you ;)

R307 The 'European' in my name really triggers you guys doesn't it? I hate to tell you but I put almost no thought into my moniker, I genuinely had no idea it would be this spectacularly impactful;)

Because it’s inaccurate, poseur.

^^^^ OMG, what is?

Terre Haute Tillie^

Well for one thing dumbass at R309, they’ve been brainwashed for generations into hating Israel. For another thing, the fact that Egypt and Jordan and Saudi Arabia won’t let these people in should tell you something. They are obvious troublemakers.

R308 that is ^

How did the Egyptians and Jordanians overcome their generations of 'brainwashing', oh intellectual giant at R313?

They haven’t. You cannot prove all three are not backers of Hamas and Hezbollah.

R315 Egyptians and Jordanians aren’t living under Israeli control and they aren’t being fed that hate by their parents and grandparents. 😑

R316 I also cannot prove they are not secret backers of Santa Claus.

You genius. You deserve some kind of award.

In other words, you have no proof.

R317, Ah, so 'living under Israeli control' is the relevant variable here? We make progress! :)

^ uh……… DUH!

Unsurprisingly CE has at least one sock.

R319 I am not aware of any competent Israeli, European, or American intelligence source blaming Egypt or Jordan for funding and backing Hamas or Hezbollah, but feel free to provide one if you are aware of one. I know that Egypt has proscribed Hezbollah as a terrorist organisation and that the Jordanian military has recently attacked the group.

R322 Would that sock be “ConcernedJewHater?”

Is Concerned European that really annoying “big gay bear” who scolds all the gay men for pushing back against the trans agenda?

That’s a good theory!

The international community has given billions to help Palestinians in Gaza. UN agencies have forked over $5 billion since 2014. More $ billions come from Qatar and Iran. Hundreds of $ millions come from Egypt, Turkey, European countries and the U.S.

Meanwhile, Hamas benefits from outside funding for schools, hospitals and infrastructure, because that allows it to focus on its own investments and fund-raising in the Middle East. In addition to its own growing “endowment”, Hamas taxes businesses and manufacturing in Gaza and collects customs on materials that enter Gaza—including humanitarian aid that enters Gaza.

Hamas has wide investments in real estate, mining and construction corporations, in the Middle East and North Africa. Plus crypto and smuggling. Hamas also invents fake charities to squeeze more $$ from faith communities and other aid orgs.

Hamas is thus able to operate its own activities with a nice budget of over $300 million annually.

All that $$ is used to build up its military capabilities to destroy Israel. Oh, and fund extravagant lives for Hamas leadership and their families—in Qatar.

Tel Aviv Pride is the funnest and hottest in the world. It must be protected at all costs.

CE wants to put a stop to all this depraved frivolity.

Oh guys. At least try and be funny if you can't keep up your end of the conversation.

Anyway imma take a breather from debating race with the residents of Florida ;)

Concerned European is obviously an American. First of all, the way he talks about race in that woke American idiot way is a dead giveaway. Second, he’s been typing here all night long European time.

Use of the word “dipshit” is sooooo European!

R331 There's another reason I'm awake but I won't bore you with it ;)

R332 You know that words travel from place to place right? And that here in Europe we have access to the best of American movies and TV and books? And that the Internet is one big global playground where we can talk to people from anywhere? And that, believe it or not, 'dipshit' is not the only American colloquialism I've ever encountered?

(I'm disappointed you missed 'imma take a breather', I thought DL would love my attempt at AAVE. I'm a white 41 year old man ofc).

R333 Is the rent boy still tied up in your basement?

R334 is also R331. Dude, it took you 30 whole minutes to come up with that effort? That's actually pitiful.

Concerned European is definitely the big gay bear. No question.

R336 Are you calling me fat, or are you obliquely implying I'm Russian?

I think you’re right R336. CE has that same on the spectrum vibe as the self proclaimed big gay bear. Like he takes everything super literally. I thought he was gone but I guess not.

I have read on some other thread that Concerned is bisexual, R338. I don’t know if he is big bear though, don’t know why I thought he was skinny.

Concerned, tell us how you look?

Lol, why, are you wanting to date, or just to hatefuck me into submission??? ;)

I don’t hate you, we have always been on friendly terms here on DL. I am the Balkanic guy, we used to have a chat here before.

[Quote] Concerned European is obviously an American. First of all, the way he talks about race in that woke American idiot way is a dead giveaway. Second, he’s been typing here all night long European time.

Concerned European has previously claimed to be a Scottish nationalist who now lives in Ireland, a country who offered condolences to Germany when Hitler’s death was announced and where muslims behead gay men.

That he has dodgy views about Jews is to be expected in that environment.

R341 I know man, I was only being playful.

Well, I'm 6 foot 1, and I like to think reasonably handsome, but sadly am still a bit heavier than I was before COVID (just overweight and not obese, though, let me make that perfectly clear). I'm not sure I would consider myself a 'bear' but 'bear' covers such a broad spectrum nowadays. I am naturally very hairy though, and not religious about shaving. I dunno if there's another poster going around calling himself a big bear but anyway that wasn't me.

I'm also not sure it's accurate to call me bi. I did have sex with a woman once, out of interest and curiosity, and quite enjoyed it. Ideally I might like to do it again, but there's no comparison to how interested and sexually active I am with other men. So maybe 'a little bit bi' is the best way to describe me.

Too much overshare? Post your own little pen portraits please.

PS My current crush is from the Balkans but alas he is very, very hard work.

R342 yes and to cap it all off we're now led by a brown guy, honestly you'd better make sure not to come over here and visit, who knows how long it will be before the last vestiges of our society collapse into anarchy and intercommunal massacres before the inevitable neo-fascist takeover.

You're better off in Ohio. With all your guns. In your reinforced room.

Where is he from exactly? I am from Croatia. Balkanic men tend to be hard, not me, I am easy going. I am bearish type and like you, still can't get rid of these pandemic few extra pounds. Planning to hit the gym, though I admit it crossed my mind to try Ozempic.

No wonder Darkgemini thought you were bi, if you had sex with woman once:) He is very strict in these matters.

R342 History is not that simple. Many countries sided with Nazis, not because they were evel or anti semitic, at least no more than others, but because they took the opposite side of their oppressor, it was the slogan the enemy of my enemy is my friend.

So, part of Ukraine and some other Soviet union nations wanted to get rid of Russians. Egypt and Palestine sought an ally against England in Germany and so did northern Irish catholics.

And after all, England did not behave much better than Nazis in Ireland through centuries.

R345 I mean, I don't mind being called bi? I'm just not sure how accurate it is, i mean, one female sexual partner versus.... a lot more male ones. But I also do think that being a little less rigid about sexual categories would probably be a good thing.

No harm in trying Ozempic, ignore all the haters, many of whom are clustered here. If it works for you, it works.

My buddy is Macedonian but spent a lot of his youth in different countries abroad. I'm pretty certain he has a sexual interest in other men but is at least partly in denial about it and definitely held back by Balkan culture. But there's a lot of other shit going on with him so I'm not in a position to help him open up to himself right now, sadly ;)

R346 We've done this before but Ireland didn't actually 'side with the Nazis', actually it provided quite a bit of intelligence support to the Allies, particularly in the run-up to D-Day.

[quote][R342] History is not that simple. Many countries sided with Nazis, not because they were evel or anti semitic, at least no more than others, but because they took the opposite side of their oppressor, it was the slogan the enemy of my enemy is my friend. So, part of Ukraine and some other Soviet union nations wanted to get rid of Russians. Egypt and Palestine sought an ally against England in Germany and so did northern Irish catholics. And after all, England did not behave much better than Nazis in Ireland through centuries.

Until 10 years ago Ireland was the most socially regressive country in Europe with its laws shaped by the Catholic Church. A church that worked with the Nazis to kill Jews.

It's hardly surprising there were so many Nazi sympathisers in Ireland and not surprising there are so many Hamas sympathisers living there now.

lol R349, you missed the part where the authority of the Catholic church collapsed overnight as a result of the Magdalene laundries scandal, before Ireland voted in same-sex marriage and abortion rights in popular referendums by a two-thirds majority, and then went on to elect a gay, Indian-heritage Taoiseach. Relevant info which rather detracts from your overall point ;)

[quote]then went on to elect a gay, Indian-heritage Taoiseach. Relevant info which rather detracts from your overall point ;)

Which election with Leo Varadkar win?

OK maybe it was a draw, but he did well enough in the 2020 election to lead the government for half its term, the first time in history Fine Gael got into government for a third successive term. And prior to that, he won his party's leadership election as an openly gay man against better known and more fancied opposition (Simon Coveney).

I'm not a fan and didn't vote for him, but you can't deny his real effectiveness as a politician.

[quote]OK maybe it was a draw, but he did well enough in the 2020 election to lead the government for half its term, the first time in history Fine Gael got into government for a third successive term. And prior to that, he won his party's leadership election as an openly gay man against better known and more fancied opposition (Simon Coveney). I'm not a fan and didn't vote for him, but you can't deny his real effectiveness as a politician.

So you've gone from "Ireland elected a gay Indian as Prime Minister" to "The party that picked a gay Indian as leader dropped from 1st to 3rd in the subsequent election and the 1st and 3rd parties did a deal to keep the second placed party out of government".

Gotcha!

Okay, Concerned European is DEFINITELY the big gay bear. The autistic speech patterns, the pedantic, long-winded responses to EVERY goddam fucking comment, as if he has nothing going on in his life.. It’s him!

C'mon, that's sophistry. There were three parties ending up on almost exactly the same vote share and number of seats. That reality was reflected in the adoption of the powersharing/rotating Taoiseach arrangement where Varadkar and Martin got half the coalition term each. Most Irish coalitions have a clear junior partner which never gets to make its leader Taoiseach, but that isn't the case here (though they have the Greens ofc).

Plus, Fine Gael are not the natural party of government, and got that result afterf a decade in power and carrying a lot of baggage.

Like I said, I wouldn't vote for Varadkar, but its absurd to minimise what he has achieved.

R354 I just post under my own moniker mate, I've no reason to adopt some other persona on here.

It's also kind of funny that you're calling me autistic when you are the one leaping from thread to thread pretending you can spot all sorts of hidden identities... on a board which is over 90% anonymous anyway ;)

The body of German citizen Shani Louk has been recovered - she was the young woman thrown on the back of a jeep driven through Gaza while men walked up and spat on her broken body. Hamas then claimed she was alive to further torment her family.

So R287 are you proud of the fact that gays and lesbians in South Florida, the same ones who let Ron DeSantis be elected, are easily brainwashed by right-wing propaganda? Is that the point you are making?

R347 Concerned, here is the song you should play to your Macedonian to put down his guard and win his heart and the rest.

The left-islam axis of anti-semitism, hate and intolerance explained for you...

[quote]There's another reason I'm awake but I won't bore you with it

You bore us with everything else, why not bore us with that as well?

Oh R361, if you're not careful you're gonna hurt my feelings.

But at least I still have R359. Thanks for the song! It's genuinely beautifully sung.

The one good thing about ConcernedEuropean is that he prompts an outpouring of support for Israel from others. It’s not his intention, but it’s a good thing nonetheless.

lulz, you'd be surprised at all the likes I'm getting on these threads R363. Definitely more than I expected to get. Who's counting, of course?

It is because you are a sweet guy, not because they agree with your political views

R365 that's nice of you,

Ah well, I don't really come here intent on changing minds, does anyone? if I can add a different perspective to a conversation and maybe make people question their positions a little more that's fine with me.

Concerned, since you mentioned that you are 41 (it is fine age, except for DL queens standards) do you plan to settle down with some guy soon?

Lol. Jeez man I'm not talking about my emotional life here, in the middle of all these sharks!

But thanks for the thought ;)

Ok, I get you. But, who knows, you might get a proposal from one of of your adversaries. Maybe your disputes arouses them :)

Some of them do get off on all the end of civilisations blood and death rhetoric they like to indulge in, there's definitely a libidinal quality in there somewhere. But I don't think you can build a durable relationship on hatesex, no matter how amazing it might be in the moment ;)

[quote] you'd be surprised at all the likes I'm getting on these threads [R363]. Definitely more than I expected to get.

The contingent of antisemites on DL is not news. They crawl out on every thread about Jews, so there’s no surprise that they would endorse your opinions.

Jesus. I sleep all night and when I wake up this turd CE is still blabbering. Is he a robot or is he on welfare because he doesn’t ever seem to sleep or work?

Concerned European interviewed at a protest

[quote] I sleep all night and when I wake up this turd CE is still blabbering.

I would say getting paid to do it keeps him going, but he’s so bad at it, I can’t see someone paying for that. I think he’s clearly enough stated he just loves trolling, although being able to express his irrational hatred of Israel is a bonus for him.

lol at all the triggered posts by the ugly fat fuck Matt A. CE really triggers him.

Keep up the good work, CE. I look forward to your posts destroying the nonsense propaganda posted here. You are by far the most informed poster on this subject.

Ah yes, r371 - when you have no substantive rebuttal to the message, just resort to ad hominem by accusing the messenger of anti-semitism.

Sorry, but that tactic isn’t working in 2023. Americans are finally waking up to years of blind pro-Israel propaganda.

Your “team” is increasingly losing this battle. And it’s hilarious watching your desperation. The pathetic upvoting of your own posts is just one example.

The alternative to Israel winning this war is Hamas stays in charge of the Gaza Strip and prepares for the next massacre. I don't believe Israel is going to accept that, even if millions of dingbats march around the world shrieking and hollering From the River to the Sea. This is a war to death. Hamas is destroyed, or eventually Israel is destroyed.

(Also, I don't think CE is secretly some trans rights activist or secretly some other poster or secretly part of the Illuminati or secretly paid to post on DL. I think he's just wrong in his overall assessment of this war.)

[quote]Ah yes, [R371] - when you have no substantive rebuttal to the message, just resort to ad hominem by accusing the messenger of anti-semitism. Sorry, but that tactic isn’t working in 2023. Americans are finally waking up to years of blind pro-Israel propaganda. Your “team” is increasingly losing this battle. And it’s hilarious watching your desperation. The pathetic upvoting of your own posts is just one example.

HILARIOUS watching Jewish kids locked into libraries for their own protection, HILARIOUS watching Russian gangs roam through an airport hunting Jews, HILARIOUS listening to audio footage of terrorists boasting about how many Jews they've killed, HJLARIOUS listening to chants for an Infitada on the streets of European cities, HILARIOUS seeing swastikas painted in Jewish areas, HILARIOUS listening to people justifying the torture, mutilation, rape and burning alive of children as resistance.

HILARIOUS.

Imagine being that much of a Nazi and thinking that they won't stop with gays when they've finished with Jews.

David Mamet is on the warpath. He's been going around and appearing on every far right MAGA radio show this past two weeks to hold forth on his views.

R378, take your meds. You seem unhinged.

I'm not a Hamas apologist R380.

You and your close friends might celebrate dead Jews but you're in a minority.

[quote](Also, I don't think CE is secretly some trans rights activist or secretly some other poster or secretly part of the Illuminati or secretly paid to post on DL. I think he's just wrong in his overall assessment of this war.)

Concerned European also thinks Ukraine should surrender to Russia and give up its territory, along with the tens of thousands of Ukrainian children taken into Russia. Some people would call that a genocide but for intellectuals like Concerned European it's "peace".

But it will be a peaceful genocide, r382.

R377 Maybe CE is a tranny after all. All the hormones might be affecting his brain.

CE went quiet for a moment. I now know why…that pogrom in Dagestan didn’t organize itself. Totally coordinated on social media! All those bloodthirsty animals ravenously searching for Jews. That’s the world CE is promoting: killing every Jew they can find.

R385 maybe he was temporarily banned.

everywhere Muslims are, they create conflict. because they refuse to integrate but rather try to transform, often forcefully, the native cultures. islam is a fundamentally flawed faith that refuses to modernise and thus is a cancer to socities. it is why China and India are purging itself of it. the sooner the world unites against it the better

Suck it R386, maybe I just wanted to watch you guys roll around in your own faeces for a bit.

[quote] maybe he was temporarily banned.

I saw that our resident Jew-hater was trolling on a different thread at the time.

[quote]everywhere Muslims are, they create conflict. because they refuse to integrate but rather try to transform, often forcefully, the native cultures. islam is a fundamentally flawed faith that refuses to modernise and thus is a cancer to socities. it is why China and India are purging itself of it. the sooner the world unites against it the better

Oh come on. The Uyghurs are the victims of a genocide by the Chinese government and providing slave labour for the country but Islamic nations don't care because it's not Jews doing it.

And the anti Muslim violence in India is horrific, and is spilling over into other countries.

R385, that almost pogrom was another WTF moment. For those who can see, anti-semitism is showing itself as an almost diabolical pathology, again and again. If anything, all the events since October 7th shout loud and clear why there must be an Israel.

[quote]lol at all the triggered posts by the ugly fat fuck Matt A

Is he your pretend boyfriend? How adorable.

Good one R388. Throw in a British spelling to make people think you’re overseas.

R387 The one thing that the US actually does better is integration of immigrants. I know it's not okay to admit anything positive about the US, but I'm doing it anyway. Everyone from the US is from somewhere else so people are just American after a generation or two. That includes Arabs. They become1/4 Palestinian and no longer identify as Muslim after 2 generations. Arabs in France and Germany are never truly French or German. Their inability to integrate is not 100% their fault.

I wonder how Jews that are SJWs are faring now...probably forced to go along with the Jews for Palestine tagline to fit in with the other wokesters.

R395 I used to be that kind of "pick-me" Jew, I'm ashamed to say. It took Oct 7th to finally snap me out of it.

The second people would find out I was Jewish, I would immediately justify it with some version of, "But don't worry, I'm NOT a Zionist! Just a totally non-threatening, self-deprecating, self-loathing, not at all weird Jew! Nothing but bagels and jokes, I swear! Seriously, Jews need to just stfu already about the Holocaust, amiright? Here, take my money! Black lives matter—MINE. DOES. NOT."

But you know what? All those people I spent years apologizing for my existence to still cheered on the street for the slaughter of Jews not even 12-hours after the fact. Not a single one of them reached out to me to see if my family (many of which live in Israel) were okay. And I finally realized that it doesn't matter how "good" or supplicating a Jew you are, you're still gonna get loaded onto the train with all the rest of them when it comes down to it.

Suffice to say, it has been a sobering fucking 3-weeks.

R396, people all over America, including myself, have family in other countries where hundreds or thousands of people are wiped out nearly instantaneously at any given moment, as a result of violent political strife — in some cases, ongoing for years or decades.

Have you done an inventory of everyone in your life, friends / coworkers / etc. that meets that criteria and checked in on them every time similar situations occur in their respective homelands?

Shani Louk was Mossad, or at a minimum cooperating with them.

[quote] "But don't worry, I'm NOT a Zionist! Just a totally non-threatening, self-deprecating, self-loathing, not at all weird Jew! Nothing but bagels and jokes, I swear! Seriously, Jews need to just stfu already about the Holocaust, amiright? Here, take my money! Black lives matter—MINE. DOES. NOT."

I read this in Woody Allen's voice.

[QUOTE] And I finally realized that it doesn't matter how "good" or supplicating a Jew you are, you're still gonna get loaded onto the train with all the rest of them when it comes down to it.

MARY!!!

Did you know there is a Jewish community of 8000 strong, living in Iran? No one has loaded them on a train.

R397 Of course I have. And for the record, I'm not talking about my super or Trisha in payroll. I'm talking about close friends of 15-20+ years. People I marched alongside and protested for, whose causes I donated to and volunteered for and championed—not just me, but my family, for generations.

And for what it's worth, R397, I'm not just talking about "not checking in", I'm talking talking about celebrating their barbaric torture and murders as some achievement in "resistance" or social justice.

We all know that if the Palestinians weren’t Muslim there would have been peace decades ago.

R384 is proof that these gross Zionists are anti-trans right wingers, full of nasty right wing ideas in their heads.

ConcernedEuropean remains the smartest person on the thread, gladly he hasn't been brainwashed by American propaganda.

^CE’s demented sock^

Concerned European at it again.

Lol @ R406

Americans, why are you like this?

David Simon, the Bernie Sanders supporting creator of The Wire has reached his limit.

[quote]I will talk shit about you. I grew up advocating for the two-state solution, grieving for Rabin and with deep contempt for the Israeli right and the settlements. And if you excuse Hamas and its butchery and think it brings peace closer you are a fool and an asshole both.

[quote]The chasm that separates even the indiscriminate death of civilians of any race, as appalling and awful as this is, and the evidenced reality of purposed and discriminate rape, torture and burning of civilians targeted for such by race is where Miss Ami falls into her last hell.

Incidentally Simon adapted The Plot Against America a couple of years ago. The scene with Zoe Kazan talking to Seldon on the phone has stayed with me like few other dramas.

So last night during a live broadcast the (generally anti Israel) UK Channel 4 News team were very close to a Hamas rocket being shot down by the Iron Dome.

The journalist Lindsey Hilsum tweeted this

[quote]Thank you all for concern about our safety when debris from Iron Dome landed nearby while we were on air @Channel4News @C4annalisa @JoshHo and Nava Mizrahi brilliant calm team. And it is nothing compared to what the ppl of Gaza are enduring day and night. Think of them not us.

This generated a reply from Jewish comedian Josh Howie

[quote]You mean debris from a Hamas missile, or from the Iron Dome that intercepted or intended to intercept the Hamas missile, that saved you and your team’s life. I’m sure Israel appreciates your gratitude, Channel 4 International News Editor. Btw, how well are Israelis sleeping?

Hilsum replied

[quote]Iron Dome is an excellent system. It does enable Israelis, and us, to sleep.

Jewish journalist Nicole Lampert asked

[quote]In safe rooms? Stairwells?

And Hilsum responded

[quote]Yes when sirens go ppl do take shelter. But Iron Dome works very well. That’s why Ukraine was so keen to get the system.

Is it me or is there just a total lack of empathy for Israel being under attack?

R409 Good on him. I'm a Bernie supporting Zionist Jew. You know what was great about Bernie? He couldn't even pretend to be bothered with identity politics. He was concerned only with making material differences in Americans' lives in terms of universal healthcare and education, higher minimum wages, environmental reform, affordable housing, and making millionaires and billionaires pay their fair share in taxes. He didn't give a shit about BLM. He didn't give a shit about pronouns. He didn't give a shit about cultural appropriation or "trans genocides" or white privilege or any of the other SJW nonsense that has obliterated the left.

I LONG for the days when universal healthcare was what the left considered "radical". Now its platform is demanding no-questions-asked genital mutilation procedures for minors, excoriating whatever white-slight of the month happens to be trending, and calling for the extermination of Jews. And they've completely forgotten about everything the progressive party was originally was founded on. Everyday there's a new "oppressor" to rail on that distracts them from the fact that we're still broke, sick, drowning in college and medical debt, and slaves to corporations that are sucking us and our planet dry.

But hey, at least HR departments are compelling employees to include their preferred pronouns in their email signatures and nerdy Jewish kids are getting bullied on college campuses! PROGRESS!

My identification with the left died along with Bernie Sanders' 2020 presidential campaign.

Bernie Sanders tweeted last week about the 5 year anniversary of the Tree Of Life synagogue shooting. The abuse from his former supporters was horrendous.

R412 Ugh. I almost don't even want to look. Bernie Sanders is to the Progressive Party what Albert Einstein was to the Manhattan Project. Both unwittingly created a monster.

Wow, shit. Never thought I'd want to retweet Pink at R228, but that pretty much sums it up.

But I can't bring myself to retweet Pink, so I'm staying silent.

ConcernedEuropean is neither concerned nor potentially European. He is what is used to be known as a Russian troll, now a troll from who knows where.

He and PlatonicCaveman and BonniePrinceCharlie are potentially the same anti-American troll, talking to itself.

I just had a look on Pink's Twitter and couldn't find that post anywhere. Guessing that means she was torn apart by the Hamastikas and had to take it down.

You sure wen't down the conspiracy theory rabbit hole R415.

For evidence, see this thread where ConcernedEuropean, PlatonicCaveman, and BonniePrinceCharlie chime on the same cretinous theories about the biological basis of homosexuality, one after the other in the same hour. More than once:

R416 - Pink's post was on her Instagram not Twitter and it's still up.

Concerned European is an authentic European, a left wing anti English/anti West contrarian self styled intellectual. That's why he wants Ukraine to surrender to Russia, and thinks Israel shouldn't exist. He's the kind of leftist who is more offended at the suggestion muslims behead and rape women (it's racist to say that!) than the actual beheading and rapes.

And here is a genuine write up in the New York Times. Someone wrote that, and someone else read it and thought "yeah, that'll do".

I don't want to victim-blame, but anyone who hasn't blocked ConcernedEuropean by this point is just bringing the misery on themselves. Either get off your huffy bike and block her or save your nightly screed for your diary.

I'm using my daily three FF on her, R420

Well I WAS going to offer to get everyone ice cream, but now I'm not sure that I shall.

Thank you, R419. I sent her post to my mother and she said, "That Pink, she's a nice girl."

Matt A all over this thread now. Feels threatened by Concerned European, wants them gone.

Matt you are your own worst enemy.

People aren’t threatened by Concerned European’s anti Israeli/jewish sentiment and shilling got Putin - people are laughing at his pompousness

ConcernedEuropean may be out of touch and wooly-headed, but most Euros are. That doesn't mean he should be banned.

R422 Concerned, some would be afraid there was novichok in the ice cream

But would it be Jewish ice cream?

Probably not.

Christ. Can't someone please just start a separate "CE's a twat" thread instead of derailing every geopolitics thread by endlessly dissecting the verities of her twatdom?

Why are these posters being placed in American cities? What is the point? The kidnapping victims are not here.

R426 He’s not European.

And you know that how?

[quote]Why are these posters being placed in American cities? What is the point? The kidnapping victims are not here.

Some of them are American citizens. And it's good to keep their names and faces in the public eye. People want to do something.

LOL at all the triggered hysterics about CE. All by the same right-wing trash. 😂😂😂

CE, that’s a sign you’re doing something right. Keep it up brother!

Where did CE say Ukraine should surrender itself to Russia?

R434 I consider this work not only my duty, but also my honour and privilege.

R435 I didn't. I said it should not join NATO.

R435 there are several threads on Ukraine where CE argued that Ukraine should give up territory (and people) to Russia in exchange for peace.

He also argued that Russia was provoked into attacking Ukraine, a fairly standard point of view on the left.

Remember that AOC and MTG voted together on Ukraine bills.

R438: False. I said that according to a strict application of the principle of self-determination, Crimea at the very least should probably be Russian rather than Ukrainian. Regardless, a negotiated peace is not the same as a surrender.

I also never said at any point that Russia was provoked into attacking Ukraine. Please stop projecting the voices in your head onto me.

DL is VERY pro Ukraine, pro Israel.

So what is it, CE? Do you work for the United Nations or are you on welfare?

I have to laugh about the NATO issue. Putin literally resurrected the dead where NATO is concerned.

Yesterday a video started to be shared of 2 women attacking another woman on a London underground train. The audio was very poor apart from the screaming.

Today there were rumours the victim was an Israeli/Jewish woman and the Community Service Trust issued a statement saying they were aware of rumours and were investigating.

The police have now issued photos of 2 women they want to speak to in relation to a racially aggravated assault.

R441 Neither. But why are you using being on welfare as an insult? The most fucked up thing about US American culture is how you wear your lack of empathy as a badge of honour.

^ just like your lack of empathy for Jewish people who are being attacked all over the place, who are more of an ally to your fag ass than a Palestinian ever will be.

Ohjesus—that was incredibly hard to watch. WTF was up with that cowardly piece of shit behind the camera? At one point the victim literally looks up at him and begs for his help and he just steps off the train. I hope he's charged as an accessory.

No context for what is happening in that video.

The context is R433 - the police are treating it as a racially aggravated assault, looking for 2 black women and the victim is reported to be Jewish.

Correction: R443

[QUOTE] The context is [R433] - the police are treating it as a racially aggravated assault, looking for 2 black women and the victim is reported to be Jewish.

It all sounds very anecdotal.

The video isn't anecdotal and the police statement about the assault being racially aggravated with the photos of 2 black perps isn't anecdotal.

The only question now is what race the victim is or was perceived to be - no one has suggested the assault happened because she was Mexican, Chinese or Welsh, but that she was Israeli and/or Jewish.

Finally blocked CE and its main sock. RELIEF! Clearly this sinister Russian agent is obsessed with Jews, and doesn’t care who he vomits 🤮 this rage all over. Almost half this thread, and most of his greyed out thread on an “American gay visits Palestine…”. disappear. As someone noted above, he’s a much more prolific troll than most of us realized. Muriel should investigate for sure.

R452 This is what I keep saying! My blood pressure dropped a good 10 points when I finally blocked his ass.

R452 What a difference a block makes!

R454, which was his main sock? What was one of their comments here? I'd like to add that to the list.

Blacks do that shit to non-blacks all the fucking time. Now there are cameras showing the truth some of us have known for a long time. Yes, it was very hard to watch. I hope the woman is ok and the feral animals are thrown in jail.

Don't reply to CE, just FF his ass.

The one slobbering all over him, R455. After many posts, the sock will give him a very public blowjob. Once you start looking, it’ll be hard to miss. Very Eddie Haskell like and quite obsequious.

[quote] The one slobbering all over him,

Is that r434/r435? I’ve had that troll on Ignore for a long time.

Cornell University student threatened to stab and rape Jewish students and ‘shoot up’ school, prosecutors say

The alleged threats alarmed students and focused more national attention on the rise in antisemitism and Islamophobia since the start of the Israel-Hamas war.

In a post in an online discussion board, prosecutors said, the student allegedly threatened to "shoot up" a campus building. In another post, he said he he would "stab" or "slit the throat" of Jewish men, and rape or throw off a cliff Jewish women he encounters on campus, according to the prosecutors.

He also said he would behead Jewish babies and threatened to "bring an assault rifle to campus and shoot all you" Jewish people, prosecutors said, attributing the words to Dai.

Do we know how old CE is?

CNN’s @jaketapper interviews an Israeli first responder who found an eight-year-old Israeli girl on Oct. 7 with her arm chopped off by Hamas. The girl had been alone for hours, and was still awake and breathing. She died.

Still people won't believe her and demand WHERE IS THE EVIDENCE

R452, wow, what would we have done if you hadn’t blocked CE? We’re so glad you exercised your boundaries!!!!

lol pathetic phaggot.

R453, I’ve been following his posts here since this recent conflict broke out, and not a single one has been insulting, rude or disrespectful. Rather, extremely nuanced and many times with substantiation — unlike the frothing-at-the-mouth and knee-jerk “you’re an anti-Semite!!!!11” posts from at least 3/4 of DLers here, who are brainwashed and insular boomer Americans and don’t know shit about the history of the region other than the Hasbara garbage that’s been shoved down our throats for the last 30+ years.

Yes, he's very middle of the road, R466. The ones blocking him are the extremists.

Where is Concerned? He has gone missing. I think it is holiday today in Ireland.

Concerned European is visiting his new boyfriend

Cute, R469. Let's hope no-one you care for ever gets brutally murdered.

Another Hamas supporter. The tattoo looks photoshopped but I'm sure it's a genuine post.

Joe Biden is playing games with our Strategic Petroleum Reserve again, alienating Saudi Arabia at the worst possible time. Joe's not very good at the grand strategy thing.

The IDF needs to step up their game. This is what Gaza should look like when they’re done with it.

I think an ideal approach would be more akin to Sherman’s march to the sea. You would want to destroy the civilian population’s ability to support the combatants and their desire to wage war. Of course, a major problem is that the Palestinians don’t think the way Westerners do, it’s universally acknowledged. You can make the retaliation for attacking Israel be living in hell on Earth and it doesn’t seem to diminish their bloodthirsty obsession to eradicate all Jews in Israel. Israel is Jamie Lee Curtis and the Palestinians are Michael Myers.