Israel Under Attack from Land and Air: Part 5

[quote]Who really bombed the hospital?

Dr. Kimberly Shaw.

[quote]Who really bombed the hospital? Will peace be negotiated?

Dr Kimberly Guilfoyle. No.

So am I wrong or is pretty much confirmed that the hospital was not an Israeli attack, but an intercepted bomb that just hit the wrong place at the wrong time?

Hold me David.

R3 it was an Israeli missle.

R5, evidence?

We’ve gotten to a place where facts don’t matter. They take too long to collects. And why bother when you won’t change your mind anyway?

Fwiw...

Intercepted phone Call between Hamas and Islamic Jihad - about the Hospital tragedy

R7 in the era of deep fakes, you can no longer believe your eyes and ears.

It wouldn't surprise me if foolish Hamas levelled that hospital by accident, nor would I put it past the Israelis, either accidental or on purpose, to bomb a hospital.

Biden: hospital blast caused by "the other team"

Why does he always use such pedestrian language?

Cause he’s not hoity-toity like us R9.

R7, NOW they can intercept phone conversations by Hamas?

So Islamic Jihad are basically the Wily E Coyote of terrorists, blowing themselves up with Acme bombs. Quick to blame others, though.

R8 Agree, Dutchie. That's why I added 'fwiw'. Who knows wtf is really going on.

Analysis: Israel's evidence is compelling - but Hamas controlled narrative from the start

This is as much an information war as it is a war on the ground, says our security and defence editor Deborah Haynes.

Hamas quickly blamed Israel for the Gaza hospital blast last night, but Israel says it has evidence showing the blast was caused by a misfired rocket from a militant group.

The information that Israel has provided is "very compelling", Haynes says.

"But the problem they've got is the narrative has already been taken over right from the beginning, with Hamas coming out very quickly and accusing Israel of being responsible, triggering all of these protests.

"There's already a huge amount of anger about the fact that civilians have been killed in Gaza as a result of Israeli airstrikes."

R14, the linked analysis makes a lot of sense, but the story has now taken on a life of its own.

We all need to stand strong and not take any bait. Withhold your opinion on who did this for now. Either way, it is a tragedy. The real enemy is solely Hamas. The real enemy is anyone who is not a friend to peace.

Concerned that Biden isn't taking this seriously, since he's using sports analogies.

Equally concerned that you're an idiot, r17.

[quote] Analysis: Israel's evidence is compelling - but Hamas controlled narrative from the start

Media on the left that is consistently anti-Israel “controlled” the narrative. If they had treated the story as they would a Trump claim, they would have reported that Palestinians “claimed, without evidence,” that Israel was responsible. They could have also stated from the beginning, truthfully, that “it is not yet known what the source of the explosion was.” Instead they led with the claim and then mildly followed it with “according to Gazan authorities”.

Ultra liberals are only pro-Palestine because of the brown skin, that’s literally it. They have a psychotic obsession with race to the point that they’ll support a group that gladly executes gays. Fuck their dumb woke asses!

So the photo evidence of the hospital seems to clearly point out that it was not bombed by Israel.

Now what? Will all the people who assumed it was Israel apologize?

[quote]Will all the people who assumed it was Israel apologize?

Most won't believe it. Others will say it's a tragic consequence of oppression at the hands of the Israelis.

The real enemies are the media and leftist stooge politicians who amplified Hamas's lies almost immediately.

R19, great catch, well put.

This article points to multiple analyses that rely on evidence to say it wasn't the Israelis. Not enough damage on the ground (Israeli bombs take out multiple buildings, not just one ), no crater reflecting usual Israeli firepower, and Al Jazeera footage that captures the missile malfunctioning and then the hospital exploding. The terrorists fucked up and killed their own people in hospital.

Yes, they can now intercept calls between Hamas and the Islamic Jihad but were clueless when it came to October 7th, a catastrophic failure to a degree that is almost beyond belief.

[quote]Yes, they can now intercept calls between Hamas and the Islamic Jihad but were clueless when it came to October 7th, a catastrophic failure to a degree that is almost beyond belief.

"Only a small number of people would have known the full extent of the plan, and they would have been careful to discuss it only in person, with cell phones outside the room."

What is CSIS? Why should we believe?

R28... Wikipedia, FWIW but robustly footnoted.....

The Center for Strategic and International Studies (CSIS) is an American think tank based in Washington, D.C.[5] From its founding in 1962 until 1987, it was an affiliate of Georgetown University, initially named the Center for Strategic and International Studies of Georgetown University. The center conducts policy studies and strategic analyses of political, economic and security issues throughout the world, with a focus on issues concerning international relations, trade, technology, finance, energy and geostrategy.[6]

In the University of Pennsylvania's 2019 Global Go To Think Tanks Report, CSIS is ranked the number one think tank in the United States across all fields, the "Top Defense and National Security Think Tank" in the world, and the fourth-best think tank in the world. It was named as a "Defense and National Security Center of Excellence for 2016–2018".[7]

Since its founding, CSIS "has been dedicated to finding ways to sustain American prominence and prosperity as a force for good in the world", according to its website.[8] CSIS is officially a bipartisan think tank with scholars that represent varying points of view across the political spectrum. It is known for inviting well-known foreign policy and public service officials from the U.S. Congress and the executive branch, including those affiliated with either the Democratic or the Republican Party as well as foreign officials of varying political backgrounds. It has been labeled a "centrist" think tank by U.S. News & World Report.[9]

You don't need to believe the CSIS, you just need to use some common sense.

Yeah, I am very suspect of the phone call, but I'm not at all suspect of the photos of the hospital and the analysis of what sort of "bomb" would have mostly likely caused such damage. As well as video of the bomb itself from the when it actually occurred.

All signs point to it not being Israel.

And if it was Israel? I'd have no issue in saying so. I'm Team Truth.

Thanks R29. I think I'll pass on anything CSIS has to say.

[QUOTE] has been dedicated to finding ways to sustain American prominence and prosperity as a force for good in the world

do gooder necons

Why's that R32?

Too much evidence shows Hamas, whether by accident or to accuse Israel, fired on the hospital to doubt. "Collateral damage" can be one's compatriots as well as enemy civilians.

Hamas-lovers are a tedious drag, always.

TEL AVIV, Israel (AP) — President Joe Biden vowed to show the world that the U.S. stands in solidarity with Israel during his visit there Wednesday, and offered an assessment that the deadly explosion at a Gaza Strip hospital that prompted mass protests in Arab nations apparently was not carried out by the Israeli .

Would Joe lie? pshaw

[quote] Media on the left that is consistently anti-Israel “controlled” the narrative. If they had treated the story as they would a Trump claim, they would have reported that Palestinians “claimed, without evidence,” that Israel was responsible. They could have also stated from the beginning, truthfully, that “it is not yet known what the source of the explosion was.” Instead they led with the claim and then mildly followed it with “according to Gazan authorities”.

Mediaite founder and NewsNation anchor Dan Abrams blasted the media for credulously reporting on Hamas blaming Israel for an explosion at a hospital in the Gaza Strip on Tuesday, characterizing it as a “disturbing rush to judgment.”

“Initial reports from Hamas — from Hamas! — put the death toll at 500 people, which would make it one of the deadliest air strikes in a decade and a half,” noted Abrams.

“But as news of the explosion broke, there was a disturbing rush to judgment by mainstream news outlets, including the AP, New York Times, Washington Post, CNN, all immediately taking a statement by the Hamas, terrorist-run health ministry in the Gaza Strip, putting the blame squarely on an Israeli airstrike,” he continued before playing clips of the media’s instant reaction to the explosion.

“They’re all treating the health ministry as if it’s like a legitimate source! This is Hamas,” exclaimed Abrams after rolling the tape. “The headlines from major media outlets repeating the report that hundreds were killed by Israel. Look, it never quite made sense that Israel, as it pauses its incursion into Gaza to make sure it has international support, would strike a hospital of all places.”

“You had Jake Tapper saying ‘the government in Gaza.’ Well, he could have also said the Hamas terrorist organization, which just committed the largest one day slaughter of Jews since the Holocaust, claims without evidence an Israeli airstrike took out this hospital, took out this hospital in the hours before President Biden arrives in Israel. It didn’t make sense, but no journalist wanted to say that,” submitted Vittert.

[quote] “But as news of the explosion broke, there was a disturbing rush to judgment by mainstream news outlets, including the AP, New York Times, Washington Post, CNN, all immediately taking a statement by the Hamas, terrorist-run health ministry in the Gaza Strip, putting the blame squarely on an Israeli airstrike,” he continued before playing clips of the media’s instant reaction to the explosion.

On a different thread, I posted “Can people posting here at least pretend to have a reputable source for casualty figures instead of this?” in response to a pro-Palestinian person posting news articles that used “Gaza health ministry” as the original source. As good consumers, we need to look beyond the name of the news outlet and look at their sources. If the source is anything Gazan or Palestinian and there is no independent verification, you should treat it the same as you would info from the Russian government or “Baghdad Bob”.

Okay so there are reports that the hospital received warnings for evacuation. It's hard to know what is and isn't the truth when everyone is more concerned with protecting their "side" more than anything.

Wouldn’t the church confirm or deny that themselves? And what do they mean by evangelical church? And why call them about a Baptist Hospital? Wouldn’t the IDF have called the Baptists?

r41 - Consider the source, ElderLez.

Lying liar who wouldn’t know an Anabaptist from an anaphylactic?

Yep.

I feel that Iran is somehow going to become involved in this war. Hope I'm wrong.

MAGAs are nuts and brainwashed, but look no farther than the progressive Pro-Palestine crowd to see how insane and brainwashed the far Left has become.

R46 fully agree. Human rights atrocities are going on all over the world (and impacting larger numbers of people), but they are rabid about Palestine. I have college and grad school interns working with me - they’ve been gleeful about the Hamas attacks on Israel. So much “free Palestine” chatter from these kids who seemingly have no connection to that part of the world. But god forbid an American Jew has friends or relatives living in Israel. You can’t say a word of support for people one might actually know in Israel because #freepalestine and 🇵🇸🇵🇸🇵🇸🇵🇸🇵🇸

I don’t agree with a lot of the behavior of the Israeli government. But I refuse to be lectured about genocide and apartheid and “open air prisons” by a bunch of self-righteous twenty-somethings who are engaged in an endless hysterical circle jerk on Instagram.

It is maddening.

R47 and they’re posting from their child slave labor iPhones.

R46 I just came back from dinner and we were all discussing that. We all consider ourselves pretty far left and we can't believe what's happening. It's bizarre. I keep hoping it's just college aged idiots (like I once was!), but it sure seems more than just that demographic.

hmmm

ANOTHER DOCTOR

A Florida dentist was fired just hours after a video went viral showing him and a friend ripping down posters of kidnapped and murdered Israelis in Miami.

𝑨𝒉𝒎𝒆𝒅 𝑬𝒍𝒌𝒐𝒖𝒔𝒔𝒂, a 31-year-old dentist, and 'Instagram model' Xave Ramoul were caught on camera ripping down posters of Israeli hostages in the Brickell neighborhood Tuesday.

By Wednesday morning, Elkoussa was fired from his position at CG Smile, a dental office he was employed at in Miami.

'We are very sad to see this situation upon waking up,' the office wrote on Instagram. 'Our office CG Smile is not in favor of any of the actions taken by Dr. Elkoussa. We do not support terrorist groups, actions or supporters.'

'He has been removed from our staff, all of our social media pages and groups. CG Smile DOES NOT support terrorist groups actions or supporters,' the post added.

“His personal opinion was that posters from either side may potentially incite conflict and he did not want there to be any conflict escalation in his local community,” Hassan Shibly, ElKoussa’s representative and lead attorney at Muslim Legal, told The Post.

“And he was concerned that those posters could potentially trigger conflict — rightfully or wrongfully, he was concerned that they would trigger and escalate conflict.”

ElKoussa called police to raise his concerns with the flyers and was told to either plaster his own counter posters or take down the existing ones, which ElKoussa opted to do, Shibly said.

(𝑬𝒍𝒌𝒐𝒖𝒔𝒔𝒂 -- This surname is most frequently used in Lebanon)

Have they gotten all the TWOC out of Gaza yet?

TWOC?

What R47 said.

I'm seeing the exact same thing.

I wish there were some way to hold accountable the person (or persons) who was gleefully posting the disinformation about Israel bombing the hospital.

The poster at R50 is tweeting a British rapper and notorious antisemite called Lowkey who writes lyrics about Marks & Spencer being owned by Jews.

2 guys in Miami ripping down posters of Israeli hostages. One sacked from his dentist job.

Dude bros or masc4masc sisters?

Everyone has gone insane worldwide.

The Australian government just announced an emergency financial package for synagogues, mosques, Jewish and Islamic schools in Australia to upgrade security because of threats from far right groups and other religious groups within Australia because of this war. The funding is for 177 synagogues, mosques and schools across Australia.

The head of ASIO (FBI/CIA equivalent) did a very rare public appearance the other day calling for Australians to watch the way they are speaking and the words they are using and warning of various threats. He asked for calm.

I didn't see R51 when I posted at R57

I remember when bullshit in the middle east was just bullshit in the middle east and everyone else kind of shrugged it off as "typical middle east bullshit".

[quote] I wish there were some way to hold accountable the person (or persons) who was gleefully posting the disinformation about Israel bombing the hospital.

That would be nearly all of American media. When are they ever held accountable no matter how much bias or disinformation is involved.

[quote] One sacked from his dentist job.

Sacked? You're British?

Brian has real nerve going on there. How he can even keep a straight face is beyond me. Did he totally forget working for CNN and his own reporting?

[quote] I remember when bullshit in the middle east was just bullshit in the middle east and everyone else kind of shrugged it off as "typical middle east bullshit".

We would all be safer if we did that but no, our governments are determined to put targets on our backs by meddling. That region will never get its act together. They’ve been fighting for centuries.

Is the Open Air Prison crowd feeling a wee bit embarrassef yet?

Very difficult to know who to believe.

Was looking at Matt Bomer posting on Instagram a couple photos from an HRC award he just got in Washington. Sure enough - the comments are filled with 🇵🇸🇵🇸🇵🇸🇵🇸 and how dare Bomer not speak out against the genocide in Palestine, how his silence speaks volumes, what a joke he’s getting a human rights award, and how dare he go somewhere Biden is, etc.

So now people can’t even post photos from an LGBTQ event in Washington unless they publicly acknowledge the Palestinians…? Like Matt Bomer is expected to comment on this?

Truly wild.

Okay. Here's the thing. Who sneak-attacked whose civilians, murdering, raping, kidnapping?

And anyone is going to lend credence to their future declarations, allegations, and accusations?

AS IF some unnamed "Evangelical church" "received warnings" by Israel about anything, never mind about her planning an impending WAR CRIME!!

Some random ignorant X-er is to be believed?! Are we as a species seriously that gullible??

R50, You are the poster boy for "Too Stupid to Live."

Regrettably it isn't just twenty somethings with no life experience beyond gaming, helicopter parents and Twitter. In the UK, 2,000 actors and other creatives wrote a letter calling for a ceasefire but making no reference to what Hamas did to start this mess.

The degree to which the attack on Israel has been ignored or shunted to the side confirms for me that in fact there is some kind of widely held, broad based, inherent prejudice against Jews. I'm not sure how much we even see it in ourselves. I think it's the same dynamic as the prejudice against blacks, that we're starting to better understand. I'm not a lefty, but I see that, increasingly. What I don't see is how you understand what was done that Saturday in Israel - which was savage and insane - and can find away to support Palestine (which I get) without condemning what Hamas did. Hamas started this. When Jewish people talk about antisemitism it's now impossible for me to write them off as hypersensitive and insular. This time it's evident, as is the nature of the reaction.

al Jazeera have said their investigation shows Israel did bomb the hospital.

Amazed that the Qatari state owned media organisation would say that when Qatar hosts Hamas leaders.

"Al Jazeera Investigates" its like Dateline only instead of actual sleuthing they ask the local Imam what Allah thinks happened then stone accordingly.

Oh shit, accidentally pushed a WW on r50, and didn’t mean to. Believe military experts conclude that whatever fell into the hospital's parking lot came from Gaza, by looking at the damage it left.

From NPR:

[quote]Photos from the following day appear to show little damage to the hospital buildings, and a relatively small blast zone from the explosion. That damage pattern is inconsistent with a large air-dropped bomb, which would leave a crater and create a shockwave that would damage or destroy surrounding structures, says Marc Garlasco, a former targeting officer for the U.S. military who now works for PAX, a Netherlands-based non-profit.

[quote]The lack of both shrapnel damage and structural damage to the hospital is inconsistent with all types of commonly used Israeli bombs and artillery shells

And (b), Hamas INSTANTLY pushed a narrative that “500 deaths” occurred, wtf. In the middle of the night, they ascertained the number of fatalities?

Regrettably, all the media instantly broadcast Hamas's claim, without stopping to question the credibility of that number. It’s almost as if Western media need to publish strikes against Israel in this conflict.

One thing I am really struck by with this mess is how fucked up social media and the internet makes things. It feels to me like this is the first world wide risk where we're really subject to the explosive, pervasive power social has to distort. I've decided to ignore anything that isn't a mainstream news site with some reputation to protect. I take the view you can't trust anybody or anything on Twitter etc.

[quote] In the UK, 2,000 actors and other creatives wrote a letter calling for a ceasefire

Who the fuck do these people think they are? lol. Why would anyone care what they want? lol

You don't want a ceasefire, r74?

Israel will agree to a ceasefire when Hamas release the hostages and hand over the terrorists who butchered, raped and tortured thousands of people.

That the kind of ceasefire you want?

Not R74 but I personally I don't like celebrities trying to use the heft of their fame to decide significant questions.

The top five Instagram accounts in the world are Cristiano Ronaldo (footballer), Lionel Messi (footballer), Selena Gomez (singer), Kylie Jenner (Kylie Jenner) and The Rock (agreeable wrestler turned actor.)

You really want them influencing outcomes?

Granted, the only names on the UK stars letter I recognized were Tilda Swinton, who always looks nuts, and Charles Dance, which disappointed me. But still... actors don't know enough to run their mouths.

Charles Dance was the only surprising name on the list - Steve Coogan, Miriam Margolyes, Mike Leigh, Maxine Peake, Gillian Slovo etc are all huge Corbyn supporters and defended him repeatedly over antisemitism.

R75, that’s not the point. Why do actors and “creatives” think they’re important enough to demand anything? Why do we need a petition from them? Their job has nothing to do with what’s going on in the Middle East. It’s like when celebrities make presidential endorsement announcements. No one cares. Endorsements are supposed to be done by politicians dropping out of races or unions. No one is on the edge of their seat waiting to hear who Susan Sarandon wants us to back. Actors have overinflated self-worth. It’s quite comical. Bibi is not going to stop doing something because some stupid actors signed a petition.

R78... you're right. Should have recalled those names too.

Another racist doctor has been flushed

[quote]"Zionists are genicidal, demonic, greedy, pedophilic retards. Change my mind"

[quote]"I apologize if anyone interpreted my words the wrong way."

That first entry doesn't really seem open to interpretation.

A ceasefire after Israel achieves its vital objectives in Gaza would be great.

At least he'll have more time to spend on DL.

There’s a mob mentality among those who are posting anti-Israel and pro-Palestinian statements on social media. I witness the same thing on DL when I see people who live in the bubble, who only converse and have relationships with people who agree with them politically, and who only get their news from sources that they can trust will only tell them what they want to hear. I see them whip themselves and each other into a feeding frenzy on political threads, writing the most ridiculous things, trying to be the most over-the-top ideologue possible. They feel safe in their bubble, not having to worry that anything they say will be considered too outrageous.

These people getting caught posting outrageous comments about Israel on social media are just the same, feeling that they can say anything since all of it is fine and encouraged within their circle. It’s incredible, but they have become detached from the real world, thinking their bubble is the reality, but it’s not, and some are being forced to come to terms with it.

It seems to me if you see a poster you don't like, a virtuous person would just put up a poster they do like.

We are allowed to post critical comments re Israel r85, just as we are allowed to post same re Palestinians, Hamas, Jordan or other governmental (or terrorist) entities..

Israeli citizens were clearly victims of pure terrorism last week, that's not in dispute and those who try to justify it are not thinking clearly. But Netanyahu and his stupid corrupt henchmen are fully up for some of the blame and criticism galore. If you believe most of your 'reputable' new sources, 75%-80% of Israel blames him and currently wants to be rid of him.

We can certainly hold discussions at length about this situation with plenty of opinions about everyone involved, especially politically.

R87, ordinary criticism of any government’s policies is not the context, as you know and pretend otherwise.

[quote] So am I wrong or is pretty much confirmed that the hospital was not an Israeli attack, but an intercepted bomb that just hit the wrong place at the wrong time?

Any source claiming they can 'confirm' whose missle/rocket it was is biased. Unbiased experts are saying they can't know without examining the site, and even then it might be contaminated. BUT you can make a probability statement.

This expert says based on the intel available 60-70% likely it was an intercepted rocket, not Israel.

He also says this:

When you look at talking about potential war crimes, you have the issue of whether or not someone is actually targeting civilians. I don't believe that the Israelis are purposefully targeting civilians here, but the questions are, are they being fast and loose with the law and are they really applying rules of engagement that are meant to protect civilians, or are they just going after Hamas with everything they have?

When we look at the U.S. air campaign in Afghanistan, that was over the size of a territory of about Texas, right, where you're looking at about 5,000 bombs annually being dropped there. It got up to 7,000 in the last years of the Trump administration.

You're talking about 6,000 bombs in less than a week in Gaza, which is the size of Newark, New Jersey. It's just incredibly dangerous to the population, and we need to have a cease-fire and get an end to this conflict as quickly as possible.

"Between 100 and 300 believed killed in Gaza hospital blast, according to preliminary US intelligence" (CNN)

Hamas may agree with <100 if it's conclusively proven that it wasn't an Israeli strike.

Two vans being driven around London with photos of the hostages on was stopped by the Met Police in London.

The police have since apologised.

The hospital blast killed hundreds. Don’t know the source yet. We know the group Hamas slaughter over a thousand in Israel. We know Israel bombed Gaza and thousands died. We know Israel bombed refugee camps and hospitals and press and aid workers in Gaza. We know that Gaza has been cut off from water and food. We know who is cutting it off.

Sam Heughan has apologised for signing the Artists Against Palestine letter.

A fairly bland PR statement but good on him.

R92 US intelligence is putting the figure far below the 500 stated by the Palestinians initially. Considering that it is unlikely it was Israeli fire (that's what multiple western experts ate saying), I don't see why US intelligence would over/under state the number. What possible motive? Of course, 100-300 is still falls within 100s I suppose.

Todd Brown, a retired senior State Department official who worked in diplomatic security for more than 30 years, said the potential threat situation around the Israel-Hamas war “surpasses anything I have seen before in the lease with the potential to get even worse.”

“I do think that people should give some thought to their trips and not blindly think, ‘Oh, everything’s okay,’ or ‘I’m going into a European capital,” he told CNN, noting that he even advised his own daughter to postpone a trip for the time being.

...Who on earth are the people OP is referring to?

Sam needs to come out already.

[quote]When Israel’s forces enter Gaza, they will engage any enemies who resist them, but they will not go looking for them. Their task is to escort combat engineers to their job sites — the camouflaged places from which tunnels can be accessed. How do they know where these entry points are? While Israel’s aerostats with cameras, satellite photography and the pictures generated by radar returns cannot reveal tunnels, they have been used to monitor where cement-mixer trucks have stopped over the years. They cannot pinpoint tunnel entrances by doing so, but they can at least identify places worth exploring with low-frequency, earth-penetrating radars or simple probes.

Israel is not interested in bombing hospitals.

Hamas Barbie FIRED

What is with that name, r99?

R99, where does it say that she was fired?

Never mind, found it.

Soz R102, the account tweeted Noxima Hussein-ovah had been fired and quote tweeted their original post

Nozima Husainova is apparently an Uzbekistan name r100

These lunatics at American universities who believe that Israel is a villian are absolutely cultic. Doing a pretend Jim Jones like “die-in” and accusing President Obama of “genocide” shows how programmed they are and how divorced from reality. Like the few similar people on DL, it doesn’t matter how much anyone shows them the truth, their programming and their strict allegiance to those beliefs is unalterable.

R96, I was watching the end of an episode of Soap when I created the thread. They are fake soap opera characters that I made up (except for Justin Timberlake.)

[quote] These lunatics at American universities who believe that Israel is a villian are absolutely cultic

Not just universities

R107 That video is nuts. Why can't they support Palestinians without standing behind Hamas? Hamas doesn't give a shit about Palestinians either.

R53 - I'm guessing by TWOC that R52 is referring to "Trans women of color"? Google says it stands for "trial without catheter", so maybe he was worried about those getting out, too.

🙏🥺😔This poor beautiful family destroyed 😭 their entire lives changed in an instant

Terrible! However, the blood is on Hamas' hands, R110, and everyone who supports Hamas and its terrorist actions.

The blood is on US hands too. Who do you think bought the miss,es that have blown up Gaza?

Things are about to get worse for Israel.

Gavin Newsom — Who Insists He is NOT Running for President — Announces He’s ‘On His Way’ to Israel ‘Offering California’s Support’

^ Fuck off, Gavin.

Jihad is forever.

I thought CATS was, r115.

Not on Broadway, R116.

𝐔𝐒 𝐃𝐚𝐯𝐢𝐬 𝐩𝐫𝐨𝐟𝐞𝐬𝐬𝐨𝐫 𝐨𝐟 𝐀𝐟𝐫𝐢𝐜𝐚𝐧-𝐀𝐦𝐞𝐫𝐢𝐜𝐚𝐧 𝐒𝐭𝐮𝐝𝐢𝐞𝐬 𝐭𝐡𝐫𝐞𝐚𝐭𝐞𝐧𝐬 𝐙𝐢𝐨𝐧𝐢𝐬𝐭 𝐉𝐨𝐮𝐫𝐧𝐚𝐥𝐢𝐬𝐭𝐬

She suggested in a social media post that “Zionist journalists” and their children should be targeted in their homes.

The post, made Oct. 10 in a private account on X (formerly Twitter) that appears to belong to Jemma Decristo, read: “𝑜𝑛𝑒 𝑔𝑟𝑜𝑢𝑝 𝑜𝑓 𝑝𝑝𝑙 𝑤𝑒 ℎ𝑎𝑣𝑒 𝑒𝑎𝑠𝑦 𝑎𝑐𝑐𝑒𝑠𝑠 𝑡𝑜 𝑖𝑛 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑈𝑆 𝑖𝑠 𝑎𝑙𝑙 𝑡ℎ𝑒𝑠𝑒 𝑧𝑖𝑜𝑛𝑖𝑠𝑡 𝑗𝑜𝑢𝑟𝑛𝑎𝑙𝑖𝑠𝑡𝑠 𝑤ℎ𝑜 𝑠𝑝𝑟𝑒𝑎𝑑 𝑝𝑟𝑜𝑝𝑎𝑔𝑎𝑛𝑑𝑎 & 𝑚𝑖𝑠𝑖𝑛𝑓𝑜𝑟𝑚𝑎𝑡𝑖𝑜𝑛 𝑡ℎ𝑒𝑦 ℎ𝑎𝑣𝑒 ℎ𝑜𝑢𝑠𝑒𝑠 𝑤 𝑎𝑑𝑑𝑟𝑒𝑠𝑠𝑒𝑠, 𝑘𝑖𝑑𝑠 𝑖𝑛 𝑠𝑐ℎ𝑜𝑜𝑙 𝑡ℎ𝑒𝑦 𝑐𝑎𝑛 𝑓𝑒𝑎𝑟 𝑡ℎ𝑒𝑖𝑟 𝑏𝑜𝑠𝑠𝑒𝑠, 𝑏𝑢𝑡 𝑡ℎ𝑒𝑦 𝑠ℎ𝑜𝑢𝑙𝑑 𝑓𝑒𝑎𝑟 𝑢𝑠 𝑚𝑜𝑟𝑒.”

A link to Decristo’s biography on the UC Davis site was not working Thursday, but archived biographies variously described Decristo as an assistant professor in American studies and African American studies. “I focus on the interplay between sound, race, gender, and embodiment,” Decristo wrote in one of the biographies.

UC Davis Chancellor Gary S. May said: “I absolutely condemn the posts attributed to a UC Davis faculty member that recently appeared on the social media platform X. I find the comments revolting in every way, and I disagree wholeheartedly with them.”

In yet another post to X, the professor celebrated the fire set at the Israeli embassy in Jordan, responding to the news with “HELL YEAH” and three Palestinian flag emojis.

Since that Oct. 10 post and others drew attention on the platform formerly known as Twitter, Decristo made her account private. 𝘛𝘩𝘦 𝘣𝘪𝘰, 𝘸𝘩𝘪𝘤𝘩 𝘳𝘦𝘮𝘢𝘪𝘯𝘴 𝘷𝘪𝘴𝘪𝘣𝘭𝘦, 𝘥𝘦𝘴𝘤𝘳𝘪𝘣𝘦𝘴 𝘩𝘦𝘳 𝘢𝘤𝘤𝘰𝘶𝘯𝘵 𝘢𝘴 “𝘣𝘭𝘢𝘤𝘬 𝘢𝘯𝘢𝘳𝘤𝘩𝘪𝘴𝘵 𝘥𝘺𝘬𝘦 𝘵𝘩𝘪𝘯𝘨𝘴.”

----------------

"“𝘣𝘭𝘢𝘤𝘬 𝘢𝘯𝘢𝘳𝘤𝘩𝘪𝘴𝘵 𝘥𝘺𝘬𝘦 𝘵𝘩𝘪𝘯𝘨𝘴.”

Somehow that didn't surprise me

Don't start things, r112. Get it? It's really pretty simple.

We demanded Unconditional Surrender from Japan. Imagine the uproar should Israel seek that from Hamas!

[quote]Gavin Newsom — Who Insists He is NOT Running for President — Announces He’s ‘On His Way’ to Israel ‘Offering California’s Support’

It's not enough just to express "support" for Israel. He needs to condemn anti-Israel propaganda and curtail the dissemination of anti-Israel disinformation on California campuses.

R118, trans not a dyke

Won't someone think of the children!

[quote]Won't someone think of the children!

the "innocent" children learning to slaughter Jews.

"Operation Patsy Ramsey, Formerly of Boulder, CO" is coming soon r122 don't you worry.

The demographic analysis of the fatalities in the Gaza conflict has limitations. It can’t identify who is or isn’t a combatant. But the spike in fatalities among males starting in their late teens and peaking in their early to mid-twenties, and the divergence of the pattern of fatalities from the demographic pattern of the population, raises considerable doubt about claims that as many as 75% or more of the fatalities are non-combatants. In light of evidence—provided by groups that monitor Arabic language media (like the Middle East Media Research Institute)—that Hamas has instructed Gazans to describe anyone killed as a civilian, journalists have a responsibility to convey this uncertainty to their audiences and not present figures provided by Hamas and Hamas-affiliated sources as unqualified fact.

Well she seems stable…

r126 That wallpaper alone is a cry for help.

There you go, bitches. Pathologists have confirmed it. BABIES. WERE. BEHEADED.

"Kugel also explained that the age range of the victims spans from 3 months to 80 or 90 years old. Many bodies, including those of babies, are without heads.

"Asked if they were decapitated, Kugel answered yes. Although he admits that, given the circumstances, it’s difficult to ascertain whether they were decapitated before or after death, as well as how they were beheaded, “whether cut off by knife or blown off by RPG,” he explained."

Another woman tearing down photos of Israeli hostages

I never doubted it, R128.

Can’t imagine being so perverted that one could harm an innocent baby, and in such a gruesome way no less. It’s really unbelievable.

Miz Lindz is on her way.

These dudes have Palestine flags, you can be sure of that

For those in the west supporting hamas, wait for the islamic terror attacks to start in the west. All the ones that have come before mean nothing to these fools. Hamas, isis, al queda, islamic jihad, etc. are all heads of the same Medusa.

Bombing the shit out of them will surely produce different results this time

[quote]R129 Another woman tearing down photos of Israeli hostages

I don't think a fake apology is forthcoming with this one. She seems very confident that no one should care about anyone outside of her religion/culture, and she seems quite comfortable in her lack of empathy for the brutal attacks on women and babies.

Another Hamas Barbie fired.

The responses from these people aren’t simply anger at Israel, it is just a deep rooted hatred of Jews.

It's just shocking to me that people walk around with such hate in their hearts.

WOW at r136. There’s nothing subtle about that. How could anyone put that out in the world and not think there wouldn’t be repercussions? Especially coming from a supposedly highly educated person. She’s ruined her career as those texts will be found by any possible employer. She could go to work for a Republican think tank or the NRA or something. I hope she can only get a job cleaning truck stop toilets.

R122 No surprise that they want to perpetrate the hate ad infinitum.

I read somewhere - fake news perhaps, but somehow I doubt it - that a lot of the initial attacks were carried out by young guys and older teenagers. Maybe an initiation to become part of this homicidal terrorist gang - see how many civilians you can kill. Imagine growing up wanting to be a soulless scumbag?

R138 I wondered that too. Hatred on show for all the world to see. Hope she gets the blowback she deserves.

Republicans, R138? I'm not a Republican but I haven't seen or read Republicans advocating or supporting the violence seen in this massacre, or any massacre, especially in the msm or professionals. False equivalencies and outright lies aren't helpful.

R139, 40% of Palestinian population is under the age of 20 or something like that. They are unrelentingly indoctrinated to hate Jews and the west from practically in utero.

The messages from that woman at r136 - I assume that’s how most of these pro-Palestine protestors talk amongst themselves. You can sense they hate the Jews. It’s more than just “a human rights issue” for them.

I give the Seinfelds credit for being so vocal about this. His daughter posted this below on Instagram. Granted they are very wealthy and have an immense amount of privilege/power, but still. Jews speaking up are getting really attacked on social media - especially from people the same age as his daughter. It’s giving me a new respect for the Jewish celebrities who are speaking up. It’s definitely not the “cool” thing to be doing on social media. That Reddit celebrity gossip group for deux moi is entirely posts attacking any celebrity who isn’t pro-Palestine now.

R142, oh wow, a Reddit gossip group that attacks celebs who aren’t pro-Palestine! Very chilling effect on free speech. Kinda like the celebrities of Palestinian descent (eg the Haddids) who have remained completely silent on social media (or otherwise needed to “apologize” or retract their statements), lest they fall out of line with the overwhelmingly pro-Israel narrative in the US.

Oh wait

Duly chastised. I am sorry.

R136 How can someone be both smart enough to get through law school...and pass the bar, yet dumb enough to post that!! Even if you are asshole enough to feel that way, you wouldn't due to self preservation.

Too bad the X (Twitter) shown at R36 is brown. She could have had a great legal career representing the KKK. I don't even think an Arab-American law firm would touch her. She fucked up her career more than if she had done online porn. She should have at least posted anonymously or with a pseudonym (like on DL). What absolute trash!

R143 oh please. The Hadids have been widely supported by young people for years now. They have much more support than criticism. Bella Hadid is not saying much at this moment (she seems to be off social media) but for years has posted free palestine information on her Instagram, which then got re-posted by other celebrities. Young women LOVE her.

The Israeli government (very stupidly) attacks the Hadid sisters, which is fucked up and only makes them even more popular.

I really meant that the GOP is very accepting of reprehensible behavior, and all sorts of racists, white supremacists, homophobes, gun nuts etc. have a home there (I think this can be backed up with examples). I didn’t mean to imply that they’re at all supportive of terrorists or Hamas or genocide. It was clumsy of me and I should have left that last sentence off. Sorry again, I just hate to have people think I meant anything like that. Hope that’s reasonable. I feel awful and it bothers me. I promise I’ll go away now.

R147, “Bella Hadid is not saying much at this moment (she seems to be off social media)” was exactly the point.

That woman at R136 is disgusting. What an awful person.

Greta Thunderstorm has now weighed in with her usual nuance.

[quote]It's just shocking to me that people walk around with such hate in their hearts.

That's less shocking to me than you'd expect educated people, even filled with hate in their hearts, are making career ending fuck ups after two weeks of seeing what happens when you do.

R151 Poor Greta. She's on the "spectrum". Must have been the MMR vaccine. She definitely looks special and her facial expression always looks like she is angry or something smells bad. They say so many more people have autism. It's really the definition of autism that's changed. In my youth it meant you were non-verbal and banging your head on the wall. These days it just means you're socially awkward.

Sometimes you can judge a book by a cover. When you see someone as evil looking as Greta, they are not different from that on the inside,

Unfortunately prejudice and intelligence aren't mutually exclusive. I would love it if they disbarred her, because she shows she can't be an impartial lawyer. But as she's Indian, she has that caste bias imbedded in her.

[quote] It's just shocking to me that people walk around with such hate in their hearts.

I guess you haven't lately spent much time around academia

[quote] Bombing the shit out of them will surely produce different results this time

Sometimes that sort of thing is the only option Muslims leave you.

[quote]It's just shocking to me that people walk around with such hate in their hearts.

[quote] I guess you haven't lately spent much time around academia

Or here, come to that.

Back in the 90s I had a far left college lecturer who said (and I paraphrase) ‘I can never really respect Jews, the way they just walked into the gas chambers. Why didn’t they fight back?’

At least 400 Congressional staffers have anonymously signed a letter urging members of Congress to push for a cease-fire in Gaza between Israel and Hamas.

The letter, a copy of which was posted on X by Intercept congressional correspondent Ryan Grim, claims that over 4,000 Palestinian civilians have been killed since Israel launched military operations.

Politico first reported on the letter, which didn’t indicate the total number of signatories. The letter is led by Muslim and Jewish staffers and also includes “allied” staff, who opted to remain anonymous, citing job security concerns.

Said one staffer. “𝑻𝒉𝒆 𝒉𝒐𝒓𝒓𝒊𝒇𝒚𝒊𝒏𝒈 𝒈𝒆𝒏𝒐𝒄𝒊𝒅𝒆 𝒊𝒏 𝑷𝒂𝒍𝒆𝒔𝒕𝒊𝒏𝒆 helped me say yes to my courageous Muslim colleague who felt a profound call to speak out when too many of our bosses have yet to call for peace.”

Other staffers mentioned their apprehensions about speaking out. Those concerns are not unfounded. Several staffers across multiple agencies, most of whom work on national security issues, previously told HuffPost 𝒕𝒉𝒆𝒚 𝒇𝒆𝒂𝒓𝒆𝒅 𝒓𝒆𝒕𝒂𝒍𝒊𝒂𝒕𝒊𝒐𝒏 𝒇𝒐𝒓 𝒔𝒑𝒆𝒂𝒌𝒊𝒏𝒈 𝒐𝒖𝒕 𝒂𝒈𝒂𝒊𝒏𝒔𝒕 𝑩𝒊𝒅𝒆𝒏’𝒔 𝒑𝒐𝒍𝒊𝒄𝒊𝒆𝒔 𝒕𝒐𝒘𝒂𝒓𝒅𝒔 𝒕𝒉𝒆 𝒎𝒐𝒔𝒕 𝒓𝒆𝒄𝒆𝒏𝒕 𝒄𝒐𝒏𝒇𝒍𝒊𝒄𝒕.

-------------------------

Two interesting points. The total disinterest in a cease fire in Ukraine by the staffers and their fear of the repressive administration.

oops

Yashar Ali:

Summary of new TV interview with Khaled Mashal, Hamas’s external leader:

Says Hamas’s terrorism is “legitimate resistance”

Says sacrifices have to be made by nations when trying to liberate themselves. Points to 30 million Russians dying during World War II. The Vietnamese “sacrificing” 3.5 million people.

The TV anchor says that Israel gained sympathy because Hamas killed innocent civilians.

Mashal says they focus their “resistance” (terrorism) on soldiers but that in some wars there are innocent victims.

(Just 13 percent of those killed were military)

Mashal says Hamas will not apologize to Israel and that Israel owes Hamas an apology.

Mashal said no one has the right to ask Hamas why they launched this terror attack.

He says that he wants a more powerful position from Egypt on this war, on Hamas’s side.

When asked about the Islamic Republic and its involvement that Hamas’s job is to make requests and remind people of their promises.

Mashal refuses to refer to Israeli hostages as “hostages.” He calls them “prisoners.”

(A reminder that there are elderly people and children as part of the hostages.)

He says that Hamas will only agree to a prisoner swap. That Israel now holds 10,000 prisoners they want back .

R159 they didn’t mention Ukraine in the letter or the article. Why would you mention that as an ‘interesting point’? How would you know that they have no interest in a ceasefire there? Weird of you.

I don't know why CNN is sending reporters into some of the situations they are:

You don’t know why?

Well, I know it's for ratings' sake, but it makes me nervous for the reporters.

R140 It's true. Literally never thought I'd find myself saying this, but Republicans are actually on the right side of history with this one. Granted, for many of them it might just be because they hated Muslims anyway, and for many more because they're foaming at the mouth at the prospect of the 2nd coming of Christ.

Still, credit where credit's due.

Republicans are on the right side of history here? Had a single one of them condemned the massacre of 3K+ Palestinians plus displacement of countless more in the last couple weeks?

Before concluding that, I suggest perhaps you really query why this one single issue you think Republicans are “right” on, as opposed to so many others.

More baby killing 😭

The Republicans love cruelty. They will stand by whoever is killing the most number of people at the moment.

Billion Dollar Biden is at it again. $75 billion, I knew this would all lead to a money grab. I bet he wants to take in a million Ukrainians, Palestinians and Israelis as refugees, meaning automatic welfare, medicaid, food stamps, housing, etc.

He's an asshole

R167 Because I am a Jew with a lot of family in Israel (many of them who lost a loved one on the 7th), and hundreds more that were killed in the Holocaust. History has shown us that antisemitism can shapeshift from left to right on the political spectrum at the drop of a dime, and also that we can't afford to be choosy about the people who will stand up for our right to exist. Do you think the majority of black Americans all of a sudden got over centuries of mistrust of white people just because some of them marched after George Floyd's death? It's the same deal with Jews and conservative Christians right now. We're not stupid. We know what it's really about for the majority of them. But we can't afford to turn our nose up at allies right now.

The overwhelming majority of Jews are leftist and this experience obviously won't change our core political values, but it will change the groups we formerly took for granted as "safe". That doesn't mean that Republicans are now that group, just that Progressives no longer are.

^ *many of whom lost a loved one

[quote] $75 billion, I knew this would all lead to a money grab

Holding the Israeli aid hostage. It's a facade to shovel more money to Ukraine.

The White House's proposal includes $61.4 billion in military aid to Ukraine and $14.3 billion to Israel.

[quote] we can't afford to be choosy about the people who will stand up for our right to exist.

People that are protesting in support of Palestine are not debating your right to exist R171, rather than protesting Israel’s apartheid of Palestinians. Cynical of you to conflate the two. Israel has the support of almost every single western country, the U.S. has exercised its UN veto to allow Israel to continue its’ bombing campaign against Gaza uninterrupted, which is insane.

It should give you pause that you’re now agreeing with republican policy on only this issue rather than just assuming it’s a “stopped clock” situation, what’s really happening is that it’s pandering to your own biases. The reps don’t change their stripes.

It's gone up, now $105 billion. From the NYTs

"President Biden’s $105 billion request included funding to help Israel and Ukraine fight “terrorism and tyranny,” the White House said. It also contained relief funds for Gaza, where a U.N.-backed aid corridor had yet to open."

Yeah, sure we can flush $100 billion down the toilet.

R171, I hope this experience helps Jews get over their naivety. Leftist Jews were absolutely fine with the progressive left as long as they weren't going after them. Leftist Jews have been absolutely fine with the progressive left's divisive tribalism and racism until that shit bit the Jews and bit them hard.

[quote] Literally never thought I'd find myself saying this, but Republicans are actually on the right side of history with this one. Granted, for many of them it might just be because they hated Muslims anyway, and for many more because they're foaming at the mouth at the prospect of the 2nd coming of Christ.

The obvious reason, instead of partisan hyperbole, is the distrust of Muslims generated from the decades of horrific terrorist attacks in the U.S. and Europe. The Munich Olympics, the Achille Lauro, Pan Am 103, the Boston Marathon bombing, 9/11, the Pulse nightclub, etc., are events people see and strongly associate with the Muslim background of all the perpetrators. However, even more than those events by themselves, is the concept of “radicalization”. With the Boston case, for example, you had someone who everyone who knew him said it was unthinkable that he could hurt anyone. This phenomenon happened in other cases as well. It presents the incredibly scary possibility that the person who is your good friend and neighbor who is Muslim may kill you tomorrow if they become radicalized without you knowing it.

I’m not saying it’s good that humans process information and make conclusions like that about a group of people, but it is human nature to do that.

Democrats, on the other hand, are more about “the enemy of my enemy is my friend”. So young Democrats who are taught at college and by their peers to hate Jews and Israel are more easily able to say if Palestinians hate Jews, then I fully support them. Republicans though are more likely to feel that the enemy of my enemy is still my enemy.

R174 If it's really "anti-Zionism" and not just re-packaged antisemitism, how can you explain these pro-Palestine protestors chanting things like "Gas the Jews" in Sydney, or telling Jewish people that they wish Hitler had just finished them off, or to "remember where we were in 1938" in Scotland? Or spray painting Magen Davids on the doors of Jewish residents in Berlin? Or burning down synagogues 1,500+ miles away from Israel?

This is a sticking point for me regarding all of these pro-Palestine rallies. You want to protest Israel, go do it outside the embassy. You're going to make claims that you're not anti-Jew, that you're just anti-Israel? Well that doesn't line up when you rally outside of synagogues or, worse, commit arson. If I want to rally against American policies, I don't go rally outside of a church.

Furthermore, chanting "from the river to the sea" at pro-Palestinian rallies is precisely arguing for the extermination of Jews in Israel. That's almost 7 million Jews. There 3.4 billion Christians in the world, 1.8 billion Muslims, and only 15 million Jews. There’s about the same amount of Jewish people on Earth as there was in 1935. Palestine has seen its population double in 50 years.

[quote] It presents the incredibly scary possibility that the person who is your good friend and neighbor who is Muslim may kill you tomorrow if they become radicalized without you knowing it.

wtf is this absolutely bullshit?

[quote] Said one staffer. “𝑻𝒉𝒆 𝒉𝒐𝒓𝒓𝒊𝒇𝒚𝒊𝒏𝒈 𝒈𝒆𝒏𝒐𝒄𝒊𝒅𝒆 𝒊𝒏 𝑷𝒂𝒍𝒆𝒔𝒕𝒊𝒏𝒆 helped me say yes to my courageous Muslim colleague who felt a profound call to speak out when too many of our bosses have yet to call for peace.”

Biden and Congress need to do something about people like this. If the brain of this staffer and others is creating some alternate reality in their mind where Israel is committing “genocide”, there’s obviously something really wrong with such people, and they should not be in a position where they could negatively influence anything related to our justified support of Israel in any way.

People saying that Israel commits “genocide” are the same as anti-vaxxers, but worse.

R178 there are always extreme cases in every single political group, focusing on these as if they are usual or the norm is unhelpful to understanding the reality of any situation. I’ve seen TikTok’s and videos of pro Israel posters (example below) calling for the extermination of Palestinians. Do I think this is representative of your average Israeli, or Jewish person? No.

[quote] Furthermore, chanting "from the river to the sea" at pro-Palestinian rallies is precisely arguing for the extermination of Jews in Israel.

I disagree.

Interesting that you don’t list the population of Palestinians (approx 14m) (which includes Palestinian Christians, and you just lump them in with ‘Muslims’). I think it displays how you’re unable to view Muslim populations as complex, because you probably don’t know any.

BUT WHAT ABOUT THE TRANS GENOCIDE?

You’re right, r178. When things are quiet, the anti-Israel folks claim they are just against the policies of Israel. When things get ugly like they are now and such people get frenzied, the mask comes off and then we can hear the calling for the destruction of Israel and of the Jews from such people.

I’m trying to remember a Christian terror attack in a muslim nation sometime in the last, say, 20 years…

Nope, drawing a blank.

[quote] wtf is this absolutely bullshit?

Bullshit you say?

The Senate voted unanimously is support of Israel.

The House can’t vote because Republicans don’t think this is an important enough situation to behave like adults about.

I don’t see Republicans as getting any points. If Republicans really cared about Israel, the House would have a Bipartisan unity speaker. Talk is cheap. Aid is not.

[quote][R87], ordinary criticism of any government’s policies is not the context, as you know and pretend otherwise.

I don't pretend at all, because it's not the point. What is your "ordinary" criticism? who defines - not you or I, and certainly not posters on DL which is very wide-ranging in its scope of speech, thankfully.

We can criticize governments, groups (terrorist and otherwise), military, allies, citizens, even the victims themselves. Only the board masters have say over discussions, and we've been lucky to have these threads (now at part 5) standing, unmoderated so far. They've been very liberal here and we've all benefited.

30 years on, posters will opine as they will. Ad hominem attacks never worked at changing minds, but rationale discussion many times has.

R184 mmmm the war in Iraq?

Maybe, R188.

R185 yes your proposition is racist bullshit. Every single US resident is many times more likely to be killed by a Christian extremism than a Muslim one, but nobody would rationally suggest to live under constant vigilance that your Christian neighbours are about to kill you. Jesus you people are so paranoid, get a hold of yourselves.

Hamas knows what they’re doing when it comes to winning the media war - it hasn’t been 2 weeks and people are already debating Israel’s “right” to respond and their duty to respond “proportionally”. Which war has ever been proportional, and why is only Israel is expected to meet these ridiculous moral standards? Was that question asked about the Ukraine war, where something like over 200 hospitals have been hit by Russia since the 24th invasion? How about when Azerbaijan invaded Armenia in 2020 using illegal chemical weapons? Did you even hear about it? Was Azerbaijan globally condemned? Or did nobody give a shit about the 100K Armenians, including 30% of children, that are currently displaced, living in extreme poverty in a country whose winters are as harsh as Russia’s? Why is that? Why this double standard? There's also Uyghurs in China, Rohingyas in Myanmar, Hindus in Pakistan, etc. The world seems to stop when Israel and the US are involved to villainize. On the other side of egypt right now there is a civil war going on in Sudan—just between August and September 1st of 2023, over 470 political violence events were reported, with more than 2,280 fatalities. Why are there no global riots over that? Why can’t we care about all human lives the same?

My point isn't that Israel can't be an apartheid regime because apartheid policies exist elsewhere. My point is the nihilistic absurdity that there is one country in which apartheid policies have been made the focal point of international political capital for 70 years by regimes that employ similar policies themselves, and nobody gives a shit. There are eye wateringly ancient communities of Christians, Jews, and Druze being ethnically cleansed across the middle east but let's have an international day of rage for Palestine because woe be to whoever infringes a member of the region's dominant ethnoreligious group.

The Arab states use western arguments couched in western moral hierarchies in western institutions while believing in exactly none of them, as evidenced by how they treat their own minorities. Palestine isn't morally special. It isn't dominating the news because it's the worst thing happening in the world; it's dominating the news because it happens to be geopolitically relevant to major power blocs. Please recognize the utter soulless cynicism of what's going on here.

R187, you keep trying to downplay the posting of false anti-Israel accusations and propaganda on social media, saying “We can criticize governments…” We are all aware of that game. Any false accusations posted by anyone of Israel committing “genocide”, intentionally killing children, targeting hospitals, etc., (which is the original context) cannot be lumped in with legitimate criticism of government policies.

The whole affair is becoming so boring. It’s turning back into the same old tired perpetual war, funded by the west of course. Worst of all, actors are still on strike; so we aren’t getting the new movies that we need to stay entertained. Just boring times all around :(

Dipshit at r193 (I'm trying to be kind here) - we can 'lump' in what the hell we want, anytime. You don't define "legitimate" discourse here or anyplace. Wtf are "false accusations" and who are you exactly to term them false? what are your credentials.

I'm not downplaying jack, I don't have that much invested in the issue to do so. I'll say what I think, feel or observe about any topic, as I have as a paying poster here for decades. You can disagree if you'd like, as much as you'd like. But you're not stifling discussion because you feel emotional about the subject matter.

[quote] American mother and daughter who were taken hostage in Israel released, Hamas says

This still leaves about thirty Amricans In the hands of Hamas. Besides the aid to Gaza, I wonder what else Biden has agreed to pay

R138 all the Hamas terrorist supporters on social media appear to be progressive liberals

R178, if it's really just "anti-Hamas" and not just quasi or outright genocidal desires, then how you can explain Bibi's own advisor saying things like:

Tzipi Navon, a close adviser and office manager for Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's wife, Sara, posted incendiary remarks on Facebook, calling on Israel to torture the people of Gaza. "We keep saying to flatten Gaza, flatten Gaza, and I think that's not enough," Navon wrote. "It won't calm the storm of emotions, it won't dull the intensity of the rage and pain that can't find an outlet for them." Instead, she said the people of Gaza should be captured and tortured "one-by-one" by pulling out their nails and skinning them alive. Further detailing the type of torture she said Palestinians from Gaza should endure, Navon said that male genitals should be cut off, fried and fed to the captured. "Save their tongues for last, so we can enjoy his screams, his ears so he can hear his own screams, and his eyes so he can see us smiling," she said.

R200, reading comprehension! The person you cite is an office manager for Netanyahu’s wife, not his “own advisor.” And there are calls in Israel to fire her.

r201, reading comprehension! She is not just an "office manager" -

"Sara Netanyahu’s chief of staff is a state-paid position in the civil service working as an employee in the prime minister’s residence, which is under the authority of the Prime Minister’s Office."

[quote]mmmm the war in Iraq?

The war in Iraq was not predicated on Christian theology.

The leader of the world's largest branch of Christianity condemned it.

Oh, and you might want to include the whole (deeply disgusting) post, which targets the Hamas terrorists participating in Oct. 7 for this torture. Your own post at r200 doesn’t include that because it would contradict your attempt to say Israelis are anti Palestinian and not anti Hamas.

As for your deflection at r202, read your own post where you call her an office manager.

^r201. I’ll take the deserved burn.

r204, despite your allegedly "great SAT scores", you're still retarded. Literally the first sentence is: "We keep saying to terminate [some translations say "flatten"] Gaza, flatten Gaza, and I think that's not enough."

Thanks for the compliment, r206!

Most readers would not draw the conclusions you do from your Reddit post, but you seem quite special. In your world, this woman is a leading Israeli voice. And no one will notice how your framing changed her from targeting the terrorists to “the people of Gaza”! Assuming you wrote any of that, which appears to be a copy/paste of someone else’s post.

Such drama about ONE Israeli citizen's aggressive statement as opposed to world rallies to totally eliminate EVERY Israeli.

R207? Please keep embarrassing yourself. Nowhere did I claim that woman is a “leading Israeli voice” — though given her title and her affiliation to Bibi, she is objectively much more influential than the average Israeli voice. That’s undeniable. But going back to the point: perhaps if you had basic reading comprehension skills, you’d realize I posted that in response to the poster implying that the true motivations of the average pro-Palestinian protestor / rally attendee is anti-Semitism (based on the cherry-picked quotations / examples provided therein). I merely provided counterexamples on the other side (and in this particular case, by an Israeli who is anything but your average citizen).

Again; not sure if you’re just retarded or being willful obtuse or ignorant. Perhaps a combination.

Anyone who still says “retard” needs to look in the mirror.

Beacon of democracy and free speech in the Middle East

“Anyone who wants to identify with Gaza is welcome — I’ll put them on buses that will send them there, I’ll help them get there,” Shabtai added.

Recent polling shows a significant majority of Israelis blame Mr Netanyahu not just for the military and intelligence failures that allowed the attack but for “propping up” the terrorist group in the first place.

“For years, the various governments led by Benjamin Netanyahu took an approach that divided power between the Gaza Strip and the West Bank – bringing Palestinian Authority president Mahmoud Abbas to his knees while making moves that propped up the Hamas terror group”, wrote political correspondent Tal Schneider in the Times of Israel last week. “The idea was to prevent Abbas – or anyone else in the Palestinian Authority’s West Bank government – from advancing toward the establishment of a Palestinian state”.

Dmitry Shumsky, a columnist for Haaretz, took a similar line, arguing that Mr Netanyahu had pursued a policy of “diplomatic paralysis” in order to avoid negotiations with the Palestinians over a two-state solution – a solution despised by the country’s extreme Right. This flawed strategy turned Hamas from “a minor terrorist group into an efficient, lethal army with bloodthirsty killers who mercilessly slaughtered innocent Israeli civilians”, said Mr Shumsky.

Mr Netanyahu is a populist and some say it is too much to say he actively propped up Hamas as a pre-planned strategy; rather he found it convenient that there was division in Palestinian politics and allowed it to thrive to Hamas’s benefit.

Certainly, the various coalition governments he has led in recent years can be seen to have had the effect of aiding the movement.

Despite being formally designated a terrorist organisation by Israel, the US and much of the West, Mr Netanyahu has largely ignored military provocation from the group since the last major Israeli ground incursion of 2014, and has simultaneously allowed huge sums of cash to flow into Gaza.

The money is said to have come in suitcases via Qatar, where Hamas’s political leadership is based, but also via trade with Israel that has boomed in recent years as tens of thousands of cross-border work permits have been issued to Gazans.

Although careful in public, in early 2019 Mr Netanyahu was quoted as saying behind closed doors that those who opposed a two-state solution should support the transfer of funds to Gaza, because it worked against Palestinian unity, according to the Times of Israel.

At this point, both sides are acting fairly repugnantly, although of course the actual murdering terrorist rampaging from the Hamas terror gangs is at the most extreme level.

Still, one expects the civilized, wealthier Israelis to perhaps not be so coarse.

re r212: it goes a bit far to blame even the hard-right wing extremists what happened two weeks ago. That was just bloodthirsty butchering, of Israeli civilians who were mostly moderate to liberal with ironically potential pro-Gazan sympathies. But Bibi's endless machinations against some kind of peaceful solution, whether two-state or three-state, over so many years, certainly has contributed to the sorry state of affairs everyone now finds themselves in.

This is more a knee-jerk anti Netanyahu celebration than it is analysis.

Even Golda Meir had to leave the leadership not long after the 1973 war caught Israel by surprise. And unlike this new attack the 1973 war actually placed Israel's immediate survival in question.

😱🥺🥴

R198 They are still holding 10 more hostages from that family. Most likely so that the two that were released won't talk.

No matter what, October 7th was a catastrophic failure that is almost beyond belief. Not only did it happen, it took hours before the IDF and other forces finally got there while hundreds were being slaughtered. The Israeli government allowed perhaps the worst, the most horrific pogrom in Jewish history, definitely in the past 2,000 years. I am not excusing Hamas or its supporters around the world, and especially in the west.

R227, no. The Nazis killed many more. Look up Babi Yar or the einsatzgruppen. October 7 was horrifying, but Jews fought back and won.

[quote] The Israeli government allowed perhaps the worst, the most horrific pogrom in Jewish history, definitely in the past 2,000 years.

You a funny man.

A different perspective from George Galloway. His guest is Zachary Foster, who works for Haaretz and exposes the horrifying magnitude of Israel's response to Hamas' attack, including the bombing of hospital facilities and the levelling of residential areas.

Hamas does need to be wiped out but that's difficult if you don't know precisely where they are. Random bombing just gets everyone killed. There must be a better way.

Do not be ridiculous, R221. Hamas was created by Israel itself, to destabilize the political landscape in Gaza and the West Bank and weaken the Palestinian National Authority. The problem is that the monster they created has eventually turned against them, as it often happens (think about the Islamists financed by the US to prevent Marxism from taking hold in Muslim countries, which then turned and attacked the US on 9/11).

Moreover, Israel has kept Gaza under a terrible embargo since 2007, even restricting how much food can be imported so as to keep the majority of the Palestinian population under a permanent state of semi-starvation. We cannot blame Jewish people for the Likud's actions, but we also cannot equate Palestinians with Hamas.

6/10

R218 and R219, you're right my post was ridiculous. I just can't believe October 7th happened in the Jewish homeland and nation while the Israeli army was nowhere to be found.

- R217

I picture R222 typing with his tinfoil hat on.

The Wall Street Journal: How Israel Helped to Spawn Hamas.

The myth that Israel/Netanyahu created/funded Hamas

So, according to R227, it’s mostly Obama’s fault . . .

R228 I basically took it as "everybody got fooled".

I just caught up on the news with PBS news hour. I'm finding this the best news to watch now because it is finely balanced and non-biased. Fantastic to see two hostages released. Really great news. I hope more innocent hostages are released today. If those Hamas fuckers did that it would go a long way to placating the immediate situation.

Not fantastic to see what's happening on the Egypt border. The video and images are extremely graphic of Palestinian deaths and injuries. Heartbreaking to see many children dead, badly burned and injured. I don't ever remember news footage being so graphic and unblurred. But just 20 trucks to deliver aid to 2 million people? Not 200? 500? And a possible timeline of 24 hours to 48 hours before maybe the aid can be delivered? Unacceptable.

R229, it’s doesn’t seem very credible. It’s impossible to believe that anyone was fooled by Hamas. It stood out by its unwillingness to accept Israel’s existence, something Fatah and the Palestinian Authority were willing to do.

R231 Fatah and the PA eventually did. They PLO certainly did not when I lived in Israel. Neither did Jordan at that time. Israel and Egypt had signed the historic peace treaty and was in the process of uprooting settlements in the Sinai. The first time I went to Egypt the border crossing was still in the middle of the Sinai (done in stages). Things could be down right silly sometimes. During the Eurovision contest, when Israel was being featured on Jordan TV (we could get it in Israel and it broadcast in English), they would switch to some other feature. When Israel won, they just ended the Eurovision show without explanation. That aspect was entirely one-sided. Israel never did anything like that with television programing. I remember the news in Israel broadcasting that Queen Noor gave birth and it was like a congratulations. I can certainly believe that the Islamic Brotherhood was not initially thought of a terrorist. I can also believe that the PLO was. Those things are not static.

Oh boy.

The "New News"

Muslims, Jews, and Christians agree: Justin Trueau is a jerk

Captagon, an amphetamine, is the drug Hamas terrorists took to help them slaughter Israelis.

Never heard of it.

I have to laugh at the person sharing videos of noted Islamists and antisemites George Galloway and Medhi Hassan.

This week in the UK an elderly man was stabbed by a Moroccan asylum seeker in the northern town of Hartlepool.

It's now being reported that the murderer said he committed the murder "for Palestine", but it wasn't initially reported as a terrorist attack, just a random stabbing.

Why is a Muslim journalist even taken seriously on this issue? Hasan is clearly biased against Israel.

Muslim journalists are capable of impartiality as are Jewish, Christian, Hindu journalists.

Medhi Hasan is both an anstisemite and an Islamist and is incapable of being impartial.

[quote]Muslims, Jews, and Christians agree: Justin Trueau (sic) is a jerk

Don't forget us!

Former Rep. Justin Amash (I-Mich.), the first Palestinian-American to serve in Congress, posted online that his family members were killed in Gaza amid the ongoing airstrikes between Israel and militant group Hamas.

The scenes in London today are quite unpleasant.

The real genocide in the Middle East, and it ain't the Jews doing it.

The United Nations say over 300,000 people died in the Syrian war over the last 10 years. Hospitals bombed, chemical weapons used, torture chambers, mass rape. 4000 Palestinians murdered.

The only protests in Europe and the US were against Western nations intervening.

r217 is partially correct, in that the spectacular failure of the IDF and Israeli military intel left the civilian victims open and exposed to violent attack. NO prior intel, whatsoever, that these attacks were being planned, no warnings - the terrorists were practicing their paraglider moves for months, right within sight of the Gaza border! Don't tell me that out of the thousands of Hamas who assisted and planned all this, that none of them were talking. They certainly were, and Mossad ignored it.

Then there were the unarmed rural kibbutzes, sitting adjacent to the Gaza border like sitting ducks. No guns or arms at the ready. The length of time the IDF took to respond just adds to the pathos.

But agree this was not the 'largest pogrom' in Jewish history. But, certainly one of the most shocking, given the modern timeframe and all the technology and weaponry available in Israel.

R246, there was one armed kibbutz that was able to repel the islamic terrorists with few loses compared to the outright slaughter of civilians at the music event and kibbutzim.

Amy Goodman interviews Israeli military expert Raz Segal, who says that what his government is doing is 'a textbook genocide'.

"I hope this experience helps Jews get over their naivety. Leftist Jews were absolutely fine with the progressive left as long as they weren't going after them. Leftist Jews have been absolutely fine with the progressive left's divisive tribalism and racism until that shit bit the Jews and bit them hard"

I would not say it was pure naivety.

^I feel my own stance shifting. Israel has the right to respond but (seemingly) indiscriminate bombing isn't accomplishing much except killing civilians. Israel is quickly losing the high ground here. What to do though? When is the ground invasion or is that not happening?

I’m not willing to believe either side on whether the bombing has been indiscriminate or not. Neither have a very strong track record with the truth.

Hamas's tactics are precisely designed to make your feelings shift exactly so, r250.

"The marginalization and/or oppression of people of color based on a socially constructed racial hierarchy that privileges white people.

The Palestinian Authority this morning said 4,300 Palestine have died from Israeli bombing in the last 2 weeks. This is from bombing a heavily urbanised area the size of Maryland that has 2 million people in it and no bomb shelters. If Israel were actually bombing indiscriminately that death toll would have a lot more zeroes on it

And does that number include combatants? People who got killed by Hamas’ own rockets or crossfire? And, after the hospital bombing or explosion, these numbers seem totally fabricated anyway.

R255 is correct. When "Palestinian Authorities" claim 4000 people have died, look at their claim about the 500 people killed at "the hospital that was destroyed" and do the appropriate sums.

London's Met Police tweeted this today in response to shouts of "JIHAD" at a "Palestinian rally".

[quote]The word jihad has a number of meanings but we know the public will most commonly associate it with terrorism. We have specialist counter terrorism officers here in the operations room who have particular knowledge in this area.

[quote]They have assessed this video, filmed at the Hizb ut-Tahrir protest in central London today, and have not identified any offences arising from the specific clip.

[quote]However, recognising the way language like this will be interpreted by the public and the divisive impact it will have, officers have identified the man involved and will be speaking to him shorty to discourage any repeat of similar chanting.

The term Londonistan has always made me feel uneasy, even after the 2005 bomb attacks. But I've seen it used today and feel like something has seriously changed.

When you withhold water and food to your 2.5 million prisoners and wait a week to send 20 trucks of food and water but no fuel in, that is genocide. With the wealth of surveillance technology, I don’t believe for a second that Israel can’t weed out Hamas from an ordinary Gaza citizen and has to bomb refugee camps, journalists, aid centers, mosques, schools

R253 I love hearing about it being white vs POC because then I KNOW for an objective fact that side is a liar. No ifs ands ot buts about it. Israel's Jews are majority refugees from North Africa and other Middle Eastern Arab countries and Iran. With their higher birthrate, these "brown" Jews over took Ashkenazis. Those Jews and Arabs are indistinguishable except for language and religion. Not a racial or colour issue at all. Lived in Israel for 3 years. This is a fact, not opinion!

[quote]a heavily urbanised area the size of Maryland that has 2 million people in it and no bomb shelters

Minor correction r254–Gaza has hundreds of kilometers of tunnels, which Hamas is sheltering in. No civilians allowed.

[quote]When you withhold water and food to your 2.5 million prisoners and wait a week to send 20 trucks of food and water but no fuel in, that is genocide. With the wealth of surveillance technology, I don’t believe for a second that Israel can’t weed out Hamas from an ordinary Gaza citizen and has to bomb refugee camps, journalists, aid centers, mosques, schools

So, this "weeding out" - where are the protests on the streets of Gaza demanding the hostages be returned so Israel stop the bombing?

Where are the "not in our name" protests with all the hundreds of thousands of innocent Gazan children. Imagine how the world would respond to photos of those children, the Gazan Greta Thunbergs.

There are 2 possibilities.

1. There are no protests because Hamas does not allow them

2. There are no protests because the atrocities committed by Hamas that started the war with Israel is supported by Gazans.

Any other options?

NEW: Hamas militants were told by commanders to behead Israelis and cut their feet on October 7th, according to an Israeli interrogation video obtained and reviewed by Fox News.

A militant in his 20s also describes how Hamas used Telegram to share videos in real time as they conducted the massacre.

This militant says his commander, a man from Gaza City, told them they should not expect to return. We’ve left out some incredibly graphic details about what Hamas did to the bodies of women they slaughtered. They are too disturbing to explain on TV.

This all ties in with the autopsy reports and witness accounts of the rescuers.

Hamas needed the brutality to be so unfathomable people would question whether it really could have happened. They needed Israelis to know what they did to their people but for the world to think Israel was lying about the depravity.

Just today I saw a "where are the photos of the beheaded babies" tweet that had several thousand likes.

[quote]With the wealth of surveillance technology

R258, what “surveillance technology”, exactly, enables Israel to weed Hamas from civilians? Facial recognition, lol?

carbon monoxide detectors?

breathalyzers?

have all Hamas terrorists submitted to biometric ID?

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

Israeli morgue worker says horrors inflicted on Hamas's victims are 'worse than the Holocaust' including decapitated pregnant woman and her beheaded unborn child

There is evidence of mass rape of so brutal that they broke their victims’ pelvis – women, grandmothers, children.

People whose heads have been cut off. Women standing in their night dresses woken up and shot. Faces blasted off. Heads smashed and their brains spilling out.

R259 you may know it, but the progressives don't. They know and perceive Jews as white and since Palestinians are perceived as POC they instantly take side. Even on the horrible pictures of women tortured by Hamas it was white women and their torturers darker, so the empathy failed.

Also, r254 and r260? Maryland is 90 times the size of Gaza and one and a half times the size of Israel!

Believe r254 misspoke. R260 was focused on the so-called lack of bomb shelters in Gaza. Hamas has plenty of bomb shelters, but they don’t share.

R263 Facial recognition has been used on Palestinians at some border crossings in Israel for the past few years.

At border crossings .. not during active combat, r269

Let's remember that Jewish Voice for Peace had denounced Israel's actions as genocidal, and have even gone to Congress to protest against the US political system's attempts to further escalate the conflict, for which 500 of them were unfairly arrested.

JVP are the equivalent of Gays Against Groomers

There is not a "US attempt to escalate the conflict." There is a recognition by sane people that Hamas will be treated like ISIS and exterminated to the extent possible. No amount of hemming and hawing and squirming and scrounging will save them. There will not be a few weeks of agitation and then a return to some fake, dead peace process with people who have made it clear they seek a Final Solution in Israel, and only that. Hamas supporters are simply going to have to push past denial and bargaining and get to acceptance on that.

Israel has some of the most advanced facial recognition and other spy technology in the world. They actually have sold this to other countries, including their Arab neighbors. The Saudis used Israeli advanced spyware to spy on Adnan Khashoggi before his murder, and on its own populace - with encouragement of Israeli govt and businessmen (see NYT link).

They have some of the most complete intel networks and tech in the western world, yet they were not able to detect a mass terrorist uprising that was years in the planning and making, right under their noses, over the Gazan border. Not a word. That is a MASSIVE failure on all fronts.

Israel has one of the most highly educated populations, with tons of high tech companies. It's known as the Silicon Valley of the Middle East, for good reason.

R266 The progressives (if that's who they are) need to educate themselves. All Jews are not Ashkenazi/white. Most that you meet in the US and Europe may be, but most in Israel are not. It started out that way with WWII refugees, but with the expulsion of Jews from Arab countries and their higher birthrate, they eventually overtook the Ashkenazi population in Israel and now Sephardic and Mizrahi are the majority. That's not even including Ethiopian Jews and Jews from India. I know the term POC can be ambiguous, and definitions change with the wind, but you simply can't call Arabs POC and refer to Israel's Jewish majority population as white in the same breath. That's ridiculous. It does, however, help me completely discount someone's opinion when they call it racism because I then am confident that they are intentionally lying or just know less about it than I do. In other words, it's a sure fire way NOT to get their point across!

[quote] The term Londonistan has always made me feel uneasy, even after the 2005 bomb attacks. But I've seen it used today and feel like something has seriously changed.

A job well done

Well, "racial science" is ridiculous r275. A lot of wingnuts have traditionally believed that no Jew was actually "white," even though that never made any sense even on its own terms. Because white supremacy has always believed that "real" whites are Christian Europeans and their descendants, sometimes just Protestant Europeans but more recently all Christians, even most of the actual people in the Caucasus region don't get to be "real" Caucasians. It's a stupid mess, always has been, and now unfortunately some morons on the left have decided that inheriting this stupid mess is a great idea.

So, R275 and 277, someone should inform Hamas that they must take care to only behead and torture Ashkenazis, but maybe, if Ashkenazi are not considered to carry white privilege they must let them be and go to was with I dunno, Sweden.

war*

R277 In Europe, that's definitely been true. It was the "Jewish race". In the US, Jews usually are white on the census just like Arabs. The Arabs only became POC/"brown" very recently and not according to the US census unless it changed very recently. I guess people historically saw an advantage in being classified as "white", but now see some advantage in being classified as POC. It means very little and is certainly not at all scientific.

I'm British (7% Norwegian according to Ancestry) and have been told I look like a Jew several times by different people. I'm dark haired and generally pale in the winter but tan very quickly and easily in the summer. I've never been told I look Spanish or Italian, I've been told I look like a Jew. I have a new testament first name and my family are from North London and some people just assume I am, and I've never corrected assumptions.

Many British Ashkenazi Jews have said they were bullied at school and called "Paki", which speaks for itself.

Too late. The ghost have been let out of the bottle. Jews are perceived as white. Remember Whoopy. Most people have never seen a Mizrahi jew, but they know Jewish celebrities that are totally "white passing".

So, the toxic anti white racist agenda that was sponsored by corporate liberals, many of the Jewish, probably to stir shit and put division between working class people of different ethnicity is now working for the Anti Semitic cause.

Notice how many people who are cheering on terrorists and ripping down posters are descended from Arab countries? They never assimilate.

“𝐁𝐢𝐝𝐞𝐧, 𝐁𝐢𝐝𝐞𝐧 𝐲𝐨𝐮 𝐜𝐚𝐧’𝐭 𝐡𝐢𝐝𝐞. 𝐖𝐞 𝐜𝐡𝐚𝐫𝐠𝐞 𝐲𝐨𝐮 𝐰𝐢𝐭𝐡 𝐠𝐞𝐧𝐨𝐜𝐢𝐝𝐞!”

A large protest against Israel marched in Washington, D.C. on Friday, with hundreds gathering outside the White House gates where they shouted that President Joe Biden is “supporting genocide” with the administration’s policy of support for the only Middle East democracy in its response to the horrific Hamas terror attacks that targeted civilians.

As Biden was preparing to depart for a reception Friday, the pool reported that “a rather large mob of pro-Palestinian protests are yelling ‘cease-fire now’ outside the White House.”

NewsNation’s Kellie Meyer captured a photo through the fence ahead of Biden’s departure.

There were some more neutral tweets as well as highly ideological ones that included photos and videos from the protests in D.C., which were in tandem with others taking place in the U.S. and abroad.

@BenBergquam

"Hundreds of pro Hamas / Palestinian protesters marching to the White House as we speak. I asked them if Israel ceases fire well Hamas do the same,and guess what they said? Nothing! Because the answer is no it won’t. They won’t be happy until Israel is completely destroyed!"

------------------

They're wrong of course. Hiding is how Joe won in 2020.

[quote]Notice how many people who are cheering on terrorists and ripping down posters are descended from Arab countries? They never assimilate.

I saw an observation that it was mostly young women ripping down the photos of hostages, in both the UK and the US.

There were a few cases of men, but I wonder if it's a case of those filming them being more able to record women doing it than men, as they're less likely to resort to assault.

Has Timberlake’s timber ever leaked?

To quote Bob Dylan, let 's not talk falsely cause the hour is getting late,

what is your opinion on the future of the "progressive" movement in US.

Will their corporate donors, most of whom are Jewish liberals stop funding them and cut their blood supply?

Would this make the place for the real left, the one that would fight for working class, universal health insurance, against exploitation, wage theft, housing crises , instead of stirring shit and racial division for corporate interests.

R287 I am a Jew and I sure hope so!! I've had it with the new "progressive" movement, but there is no way in hell I could support today's horrible Republicans. I'm old enough to know that both the Democrats and Republicans have deteriorated into something unrecognizable and awful each in their own ways. I am seeing frightening antisemitism in the far left that just didn't exist in my childhood. My parents were uber-liberal civil rights activists in my childhood. They worked together with a lot of Blacks (I'm from the South originally) for Civil Rights. Now I see so many Blacks embracing the same antisemitic tropes as white supremacists. That's not saying every Black person and there are also Jews that are racist, but I'm certainly seeing more antisemitism in Blacks than I noticed before. I guess part of it is the internet/social media where people seem to be more willing to show their real feelings.

R288, it was always there. October 7 was a perfect storm that allowed anti-Semitism to be expressed under the cloak of pro Palestinianism. But not all of it is as much anti Jewish as it is anti power. Many went over the top in their condemnation of cops after George Floyd’s murder, or after 9/11 with anti Muslim bigotry, or against blacks after the OJ trial. Some people are emboldened when they get a chance to express the hate they nursed privately.

[quote] I'm certainly seeing more antisemitism in Blacks than I noticed before

The media mostly covered it up but now and then it did slip through the censorship.

R288 I am sorry to hear it. Anti semitism is vile. Besides prejudice, I believe there is lot of envy underlying.

I blame the US education system.

Americans over 50 are strongly supportive of Israel. Americans under 30 are...not.

I mean, how can anybody with three functioning brain cells actively support Hamas?

[quote]the spectacular failure of the IDF and Israeli military intel left the civilian victims open and exposed to violent attack.

You know, Israeli intelligence operations are not powered by magic. It's possible, as we have seen, for them to be unaware of something beforehand. People shouldn't expect otherwise.

Detroit synagogue leader victim of ‘brutal murder’ at home

[quote] You know, Israeli intelligence operations are not powered by magic

See also the Battle of the Bulge, the Yom Kippur War, and Pearl Harbor

^ I hope that's not connected to this, damn. Where is NOI based out of?

As for Jackson, who could forget "Hymietown"?

Jewish Voices for Peace is like Chickens for Kentucky Fried Chicken

R281, as a kid, for years I just assumed Abraham Lincoln had been Jewish because of his first name, his beard and he looked kinda Jewish (I grew up in Brooklyn where many Jews live) and his last name sounded unusual to me, later discovering its a place in England. So, it can happen.

Knesset member Ofer Cassim publicly denounces the genocidal campaign that the Israeli state is promoting in the West Bank, where settlers have been randomly murdering and destroying the property of Palestinians with the tacit support of Israeli security forces, who simply do not intervene.

Chinese Navy moving in on the Mid East

[QUOTE] For those in the west supporting hamas, wait for the islamic terror attacks to start in the west. All the ones that have come before mean nothing to these fools. Hamas, isis, al queda, islamic jihad, etc. are all heads of the same Medusa.

Oh please. Get a grip Mary.

[QUOTE] Chinese Navy moving in on the Mid East

No! No!

Jewish journalist Dan Cohen exposes de pro-fascist leanings of Zionism and denounces the Eurocentrism, colonial ideology at the root of Israel's actions.

I recommend downloading the Telegram app and then joining the 'Eye on Palestine' feed to see photos/clips of atrocities that the mainstream media won't show you.

[quote]You know, Israeli intelligence operations are not powered by magic. It's possible, as we have seen, for them to be unaware of something beforehand. People shouldn't expect otherwise.

Sure. Lauded as the one of the best intelligence forces the West has produced or seen. With some of the world's best and greatest spy technology, so advanced that other enemy (Arab) nations purchase it for use.

This highly vaunted military nation missed the hundreds of hundreds of Hamas trainees, readying for jihad on their own border towns. Planning and plotting, running through every scenario, over months. Jumping on and off of roofs on paragliders, by the dozens, in makeshift training camps right on the BORDER of Israel. I guess the IDF thought they were getting ready for spring break? Terrorists need recreational activities too.

Terrorists it should be said were dumb as dirt - so dumb they shot and killed each other during raids where they put on the uniforms of Israelis soldiers they killed. While insanely hyped up on chemical crank (they found tons of methamphetamine in the pockets of dead Hamas). These were hardly intelligent, skilled, well-organized forces.

But the most sophisticated, well-armed and trained, technologically advanced force on the planet somehow missed their plans; and were nowhere around to stop them when they attacked. I think we (and the dead civilians) absolutely should 'expect otherwise'.

[quote]Lauded as the one of the best intelligence forces the West has produced or seen. With some of the world's best and greatest spy technology, so advanced that other enemy (Arab) nations purchase it for use.

Still not powered by magic. Still not omniscient.

[quote]Still not powered by magic. Still not omniscient.

Not powered by guile, awareness, acuity or 20/20 vision apparently either.

[quote]Not powered by guile, awareness, acuity or 20/20 vision apparently either.

They're only human. Maybe you're starting to get it.

R305, the forces Hamas sent into Israel were probably its most expendable recruits. It expected most of them to die. It has held its more experienced fighters in reserve. I don’t think its full capabilities are known. For example, it almost certainly has the ability to fire guided rockets, yet hasn’t done so yet. Hezbollah turned out to be a more sophisticated operation than it first appeared. That could be the case with Hamas as well.

R305, Mossad has some 'splaining to do!

What is almost incomprehensible, in addition to your points, is that apparently there also were no Israeli spies inside Hamas.

Somebody told the Pakistanis that Coca-Cola ( est 1886 in Atlanta ) is an Israeli company

100,000 March today in London.

Gee, r311, I wouldn't have thought that Pakistani Muslims would be that ignorant.

[quote]there also were no Israeli spies inside Hamas.

They're executed if there's even the slightest suspicion.

[quote]100,000 March today in London.

America has issues, but at least we're not that antisemitic.

[quote] America has issues, but at least we're not that antisemitic.

Stand up for America. Our Muslims hate Jews as much as any illegal refugees in London !

[quote]Jewish journalist Dan Cohen exposes de pro-fascist leanings of Zionism and denounces the Eurocentrism, colonial ideology at the root of Israel's actions.

Are you familiar with any of Dan Cohen's other work?

Such as defending the war crimes if Assad and Putin?

I'd love to know more about this couple and why they're ripping down posters.

The pair of them look like psychopaths.

Well, it's clear at this point that Justin Timberlake has a [bold]LOT[/bold] to answer for.

It’s the IRA’s famous line after Brighton: “you need to be lucky every time. We only need to be lucky once”. Hamas got lucky.

I was one underground stop away from the demo in London yesterday...wouldn't have known about it absent breathless PR bulletins

[quote]I was one underground stop away from the demo in London yesterday...wouldn't have known about it absent breathless PR bulletins

So you didn't leave your bedsit all day?

This is a London Tube driver leading chants of Free Palestine.

Hanan Ashrawi is on the BBC. Either Botox is freely available in the West Bank or she's using a very effective filter.

She was asked about the massacre and laughed and replied "you call that a massacre?"

She was asked about releasing the hostages and laughed.

[quote] where are the protests on the streets of Gaza demanding the hostages be returned so Israel stop the bombing?

I find it unbearable to think about the hostages and what they might be going through and what their families are going through. Such a horrific situation. Along with all the countries getting involved in this awful mess (created by Hamas), all the protesters should be loudly and consistently insisting on their release.

A (coloniser) white girl in (colonised) New Zealand was signing people up for her University Palestine club yet knows fuck all about Palestine other than a few hashtags.

[quote][R281], as a kid, for years I just assumed Abraham Lincoln had been Jewish because of his first name, his beard and he looked kinda Jewish (I grew up in Brooklyn where many Jews live) and his last name sounded unusual to me, later discovering its a place in England. So, it can happen.

I had no idea Julianna Margulies was Jewish until this week when she spoke out about why so many people in Hollywood are silent on the Hamas atrocities.

I never really thought that much about her but assumed she was Latino based on her name, which now I appreciate is just a variation of Margolyes, as of repulsive self hating Jew fame.

R310, the Mossad hadn't been able to infiltrate Hezbollah; it was a better-run organization than, say, the P.L.O. The spy agency had an extensive network of Hamas informers in Gaza, but Hamas seemed to have used them to pass on false or misleading information. Terror groups evolve and learn to correct their weaknesses.

[QUOTE] For example, it almost certainly has the ability to fire guided rockets, yet hasn’t done so yet.

Sure Jan.

[quote]There are these nice Palestinians who just want “self-determination” and the “dignity” of governing themselves democratically, but they keep being undermined by a handful of bad terrorists — about whom we really can’t do much, so we need to pretend that the problem is those pain-in-the-ass Jews who stubbornly insist on existing.

It’s never, ever Islam.

If people really care about Israeli people , they would call for a cease fire now. Inciting violence by withholding water and food to Gaza isn’t helping. The rest of the world is looking and a larger war in the Mideast is looming.

Would they also call for a cessation from Gaza bombing Israel? Release of the hostages? Those aren’t helping either. It’s funny how these calls for peace basically are asking Israel to turn the other cheek and take another hit.

WE WANT A CEASEFIRE. Israel stop bombing, Hamas keep firing rockets into Israel.

What you want isn't a ceasefire, you want Israel to surrender and give up on its hostages.

So this couple have been identified as Noah and Kelly Ann Schaffer of Willoughby Street, Brooklyn. Their employers have been identified.

Noah is using profile photos on his social media accounts that are AT LEAST 10 year old, possibly more, and Kelly Ann has a FREE PALESTINE photo on her socials.

R331 They turned the water back on a week ago (Israel only provides Gaza with 8% of its water anyway so they never actually had NO water), and Egypt finally allowed in Israel's aid trucks yesterday with food and medical supplies. So provided Hamas doesn't jack it like they do with almost all the aid Israel sends in, no one's going to starve. However, they're absolutely not going to be allowing fuel in, because there's WAY too high a risk of Hamas using it for explosives. I think this is quite reasonable.

They didn’t turn the water back on. People are down to less than 1 liter per day in Gaza.

People calling for a ceasefire are also calling for a ceasefire on rockets going into Israel.

R336 Maybe in Northern Gaza, where everyone was told to evacuate, but the water WAS turned back on in Southern Gaza 7 days ago.

[quote]They didn’t turn the water back on. People are down to less than 1 liter per day in Gaza.

Is that figure from Hamas?

Or is that from the Medicine San Frontiers guy who claimed the hospital ceilings collapsed during operations when the hospital was hit by an Israeli airstrike and killed 500 people which turned out to be an explosion in the car park which killed maybe 20 people?

Matt A. is all over this thread.

A British girl believed to have been taken hostage has been confirmed dead.

Ask yourself why it took 15 days to identify her remains.

Palestinians against Hamas

Hoping you're not implying something conspiratorial R341 (apologies if you're not, but the internet has been lousy with it).

Many of the victims of of the massacre were charred so badly that little if any extractable DNA can be recovered from their remains. People were tied together in groups of 2-4 and burnt like that, often grasping each other. Some of the bags they have, they still don't even know how many bodies are actually contained in it. Over 200 forensic pathologists and anthropologists from all over the world had to be called on to help identify all the remains, and they've admitted that even with so much assistance, they may only ever be able to whittle the unidentified group down to 200, at best. Many, MANY families will likely never have a body to bury, or even have a confirmation of death.

I imagine the same will eventually be true of the hostages (if it isn't already).

Wow, ElderLez—thank you for sharing! This is heartbreaking.

Yup, even Gazans will be grateful when Hamas is destroyed and most of its members killed or imprisoned for life.

[quote]Hoping you're not implying something conspiratorial [R341] (apologies if you're not, but the internet has been lousy with it).

No, I was making the same point as you.

A lot of people think 1400 people "just died" as a result of Hamas and their bodies weren't destroyed.

I'm guessing that even blood samples at the people's homes aren't evidence of their death as they could have been taken hostage. Possibly why the British family were presumed to be hostages before other tests confirmed their death.

ElderLez, thanks for posting that link. It was featured in a really good David Ignatius piece in the Washington Post. It’s heartbreaking that they had to conceal their identities.

archive.ph doesn’t work anymore on my iPad/Safari.

[quote] archive.ph doesn’t work anymore on my iPad/Safari.

Nor can I get past the robot test on my PC. It just started a few days ago.

90% unemployment in Gaza? I guess Hamas is the only employment choice if you want to eat. Of course any outside investment is stolen by Hamas. Rinse, repeat.

[quote] 90% unemployment in Gaza?

What employer would want to locate in a place that is not only the home of many terrorists, but also a place where terrorism is celebrated?

Well it’s one of those chicken and egg things. Would terrorism be so celebrated if they had lots of employment opportunities?

WASHINGTON (Reuters) -When met with Prime Minister and his war cabinet during his visit to Israel, the U.S. president assured them: "I don't believe you have to be a Jew to be a Zionist, and 𝑰 𝒂𝒎 𝒂 𝒁𝒊𝒐𝒏𝒊𝒔𝒕."

That will go over al at Harvard and Oberlin

According to the Muslim Council Of Britain, chanting FROM THE RIVER TO THE SEA could mean a 2 state solution, so people chanting that COULD be Zionists.

This is a serious headline from The Guardian.

Pressure grows on Israel to negotiate release of Gaza hostages

Seriously.

That's an actual headline

How else would The Guardian frame it

Here's a crazy Danish doctor (the bad plastic surgery might tip you off):

^Looks like they were going for 'Octomom' but stopped halfway through.

I don’t know why I just wondered WHET Jocelyn Wildenstein.

A ceasefire means anyone firing anything R333. That includes both Hamas and Israel and all the other Islamic militia firing rockets into Israel from other bordering countries. To suggest anything different is preposterous. You need to get a fucking grip.

To evaluate the situation, must look at the Doomsday Clock and see how many minutes to midnight.

HAS ANYONE CHECKED THE DOOMSDAY CLOCK

[QUOTE] I don’t know why I just wondered WHET Jocelyn Wildenstein.

LMAO

This just proves how utterly clueless most college students are...

^ What a stupid fucking bitch.

Yar! Kiwis for hummus!!

The NYT issues a mea culpa today:

"The Times’s initial accounts attributed the claim of Israeli responsibility to Palestinian officials, and noted that the Israeli military said it was investigating the blast. However, the early versions of the coverage — and the prominence it received in a headline, news alert and social media channels — relied too heavily on claims by Hamas, and did not make clear that those claims could not immediately be verified. The report left readers with an incorrect impression about what was known and how credible the account was.

"Given the sensitive nature of the news during a widening conflict, and the prominent promotion it received, Times editors should have taken more care with the initial presentation, and been more explicit about what information could be verified."

In non-New Zealand-related news, Hamas has released two Israeli hostages. There are rumors that they might release, or have released, about 50 dual national hostages.

R366 Good on NYT. I wish the other MSM outlets would follow suit.

The "clarification" by the Times should have been signed by the Newsroom Politburo

Not fair, she was thaught to hate whites and believe that they are always the oppressor by white liberals. You must understand that Israeli look white to her, she doesn't know the nuances. And now all at once, she is punished for the same words that she was enticed to use.

Just saw the news and the smile on 88 yo Yocheved Lifshitz's face was priceless and I don't mind saying that it brought a tear to my eye. Great news!

[quote] The "clarification" by the Times should have been signed by the Newsroom Politburo

Speaking of New York's anti-Jewish media, MSNBC ramps it up..

Mehdi Hasan and his disproportionate disdain for the world’s only Jewish-majority state are once again front-and-center at MSNBC.

After a brief hiatus, Hasan, who previously worked at Al-Jazeera, the de facto mouthpiece of the Qatari government, has returned with his typically misleading rants — buoyed only by his British accent — in tow.

Reacting to President Joe Biden’s Oval Office address on Chris Hayes’ show late last week, Hasan rejected Biden’s comparison between Hamas and Russia, instead submitting that the real similarities lie between Israel and Russia.

“It’s interesting that he decided to do a whole thing about Hamas and Russia, and linking them together. It was slightly Axis of Evil-y, putting them together, cause they’ve really got very little in common just when you look at them,” argued Hasan. “Because a lot in the rest of the world would say ‘Okay, if you’re gonna compare Ukraine and Israel,’ Biden and a lot of people in America may see Ukraine and Israel as the same. A lot of people around the world see Russia and Israel the same.”

"A lot of people around the world" = Muslims, and other anti-Semites.

The Israeli government invited a group of journalists to the 43-minute screening as it wanted the world to see the extent of Hamas’ atrocities – and to counter what spokesman Eylon Levy called a “Holocaust-denial like phenomenon unfolding in real time”.

The film was for “journalists who can stomach the horrific truth.”

Indeed, it was appalling beyond measure. Within minutes, some of the audience had left the auditorium in tears. There are images in it that I will never be able to forget. I felt sick throughout. And at points my own tears blurred my vision.

In one clip, which is carefully pieced together through both dashcam and terrorists’ GoPro footage, Hamas fighters walk down a main road pointing their assault rifles as a small silver car drives towards them.

Initially, one of the gunmen waves at the car to stop, before immediately opening fire from just feet away.

The car speeds forward as more terrorists unload their weapons. Its windscreen shatters. Then the footage cuts to the bullet-ridden vehicle surrounded by Hamas gunmen, with its two passengers slumped dead in their seats.

In one video shot on a terrorists’ mobile phone, a man is repeatedly bludgeoned with a garden hoe. The killer shouts “Allahu Akbar” with each plunge into his victim’s chest.

Israeli authorities obtained a recording of a phone call one terrorist made on WhatsApp to his father in Gaza. He declares down the phone: “Dad, I killed 10 with my bare hands.” He repeats the sentence over and over.

The phone is handed to his mother and the terrorist, who responds to the name Mahmoud, shouts: “Mum, your son is a hero. Kill, Kill, Kill.”

In a parking lot they are shown again kicking the bodies of the dead. One young man is forced into a truck with other victims. As the camera zooms in, it can be seen that half of his arm has been blown off. Not everyone in the back of the pick-up truck appears to be alive. The terrorists who ride with them are grinning from ear to ear.

Israel organizes special unit to track down and kill all participants in the border strike.

Just as they did to the Palestinians who murdered the helpless Olympics team

You see, R375, family members of Hamas were PROUD of their terrorist relatives. Disgusting.

Yeah, extermination of Hamas is the only way to go. Anything that leaves Hamas intact as an organization is a failure. It's the only way to go. It will take a lot, but the alternative is to leave these maniacs in charge of Gaza and await the next horrific massacre.

Exactly why a cease-fire isn't possible, R378.

Agree r379. A ceasefire right now just leaves everything as is, and leaves Hamas in charge of the place, even if they go into hiding for a couple of weeks.

[quote] the alternative is to leave these maniacs in charge of Gaza and await the next horrific massacre.

Which appears to be Biden's thought too as he keeps forcing Israel to delay its response.

I was just listening to Colonel MacGregor. He's saying it will be disastrous if Israel bombs Gaza. Could lead to nuclear war.

"If" they bomb Gaza? They've been bombing Gaza for 2 weeks and counting. Did he just wake up?

Gaza doesn't stand a chance. If Iran interferes, the US will join up with Israel and win that fight. I dearly hope that doesn't happen.

Okay, so hospitals in Gaza have been saying since, like, the 10th, that they only have enough fuel left in their generators for 24-48 hours, and this has been repeated every day since then, yet they continue to run.

Am I missing something?

[quote] so hospitals in Gaza have been saying since, like, the 10th, that they only have enough fuel left in their generators for 24-48 hours, ---, yet they continue to run.

You forget the emergency generators

[quote]Okay, so hospitals in Gaza have been saying since, like, the 10th, that they only have enough fuel left in their generators for 24-48 hours, and this has been repeated every day since then, yet they continue to run. Am I missing something?

Ah yes, the Gazan Health Ministry.

The BBC was so humiliated by the "500 dead in hospital bomb" story that it has started referring to numbers of deaths as being provided by "the Hamas run ministry".

I feel like people have lost their goddamn minds. I am in my 40s, was raised Catholic, am agnostic/secular humanist now. I have always spoken up against anti-Semitism. I have friends living in Israel who I didn't know were alive or dead for days after Oct. 7.

I've lost followers on social media, some of them Jewish, after I posted a message of support for Israel. A 40-year-old gay Jewish friend of mine has been lecturing me about the plight of Palestinians in Gaza and changes the subject when I express grief for the 1,400 Israelis killed on Oct. 7.

Could some of this have to do with internalized anti-Semitism? I have been shocked by the number of people who started blaming Israel instantly upon the news of Oct. 7, including Jewish people. On day one! Like, with minimal or zero acknowledgment of the atrocities committed.

As a gay man, I know from internalized self-hatred. At times, I've found myself reflexively thinking, "That queen should tone it down." Of course I know it's wrong, but it's a reflex from years of homophobia. But progressive Gen Y and Z are so "Free Palestine," I wonder if some Jewish people are being swept along for the ride out of desire for acceptance.

Don’t people have real names anymore?

R388 I posted this in another thread. C&P'ing for you here:

If anyone else finds groups like Jewish Voice for Peace/ Jewish Voice for Labor and any of the other "Jews for the destruction of Israel" offshoots understandably confounding, don't forget that during the Weimar Republic there existed the 'Association of German National Jews' (aka 'Jews for Hitler'). The organization was founded by Max Naumann...who was sent to the Columbia Concentration Camp after the rise of Hitler.

"The goal of the association was the total assimilation of Jews into the German Volksgemeinschaft, self-eradication of Jewish identity, and the expulsion from Germany of Jewish immigrants from Eastern Europe. Naumann was especially opposed to Zionists and Eastern European Jews. He considered the former threats to Jewish integration and carriers of a "racist" ideology serving British imperial purposes.

"A possible reason why some German Jews supported Hitler may have been that they thought that his antisemitism was only for "stirring up the masses".

"The seemingly ironic fact that a Jewish association advocated loyalty to the Nazi programme gave rise to a contemporary joke about Naumann and his followers ending their meeting by giving the Nazi salute and shouting "Down With Us!". "

See any parallels? There have always been self-loathing Jews throughout history. Black Americans have the Stacey Dashes and Ben Carsons, and Jews have the JVPs.

Not sure if Anna Epstein is medicated but she's certainly deluded if she thinks her non Jewish anti occupation friends don't judge her for being a Jew.

Hamas would rape, torture and dismember her given the chance, but she chooses to rip down posters of their hostages.

In response to R390, this is Jenny Manson of "Jewish Voice For Labour", the anti Israel campaign group who regularly appeared on TV to defend Jeremy Corbyn, the man who called Hamas "friends".

"When I began to identify as a Jew in order to argue against the state of Israel and its behaviour and its conduct, my mother supported me which was very welcome"

Jewish Voice For Labour are now promoting the conspiracy theory that many of the 1400+ Israelis killed were not killed by Hamas but by Israeli forces.

R391 The blankness on her face—just no recognition of the horrors perpetrated on Jewish people—that is what I have been experiencing in real life, including from Jewish people, and it is chilling/confounding me.

I have said it before I would say it again, it is because Isreal is perceived as white supremacist against Palestinians who are seen as POC. This is why this shift among liberal and progressive Americans happened.

In Europe, there has always been more prominent pro Palestinian stance, that have not even been driven by racial issues, but because of sympathy for Palestinian victims. Now it seem that Palestine has lost some mainstream support due to Hamas atrocities and bad experience with radical Islamisist and Arab immigrants.

I'm sorry R393, you have my sympathy. Over the years several people have assumed I'm Jewish because I've spoken against antisemitism and anti Israeli comments over the years. They've all been silent on this issue.

This isn't wholly relevant but Anna Epstein is also a they/them. There are very clear similarities between left wing people consumed by gender ideology who think Trans Women Are Women is a policy in the same way that Free Palestine is a policy and the answer to any "ok so what happens about XXX" questions is shouting the slogan again.

They aren't just unquestioning because they are consumed by ideology, they are unquestioning because they are deeply intolerant and consumed by righteousness.

[quote]In Europe, there has always been more prominent pro Palestinian stance, that have not even been driven by racial issues, but because of sympathy for Palestinian victims. Now it seem that Palestine has lost some mainstream support due to Hamas atrocities and bad experience with radical Islamisist and Arab immigrants.

In Europe a lot of people side with Palestine because they just don't like Jews

r388 The usual far left crowd amongst my facebook friends have been silent or neutral (posting pics of peace doves) on this issue. I took it as a sign that wokery might finally be fading amongst the oldsters (I'm in my 50s).... but it could be that they just don't want to offend Jewish friends

[quote]In Europe a lot of people side with Palestine because they just don't like Jews

This is another confounding piece. I've been speaking out against this "Jews will not replace us" bullshit at Charlottesville and the ridiculous anti-Semitism we saw during Trump's term. Where the fuck did this come from? This is not how I was raised or what I saw, even in a conservative state, even in the '80s.

And now I'm finding Jewish friends are lecturing me about being insensitive because I'm posting messages of support for actual people with actual families I know in Tel Aviv. I don't think all this Palestine support is in good faith. It seems anti-Semitism and/or homophobia is an essential part of the package for some. So what the fuck am I supposed to do?

R396 not necessarily. Maybe, part of it was caused by anti semitism, but in the past it was also due to the fact that Europe used to have freer mainstream press than the US (not any more), so they used to report from the Palestinian point of view. I remember that we have always seen Palestinian as victims. US mainstream press have always been tied closely to Democrat party, so the press was Israeli biased. What has changed, is that anti white hysteria in US have caused this shift, because liberals started to perceive Isreal as white supremacist state in the Middle east.

I meant from Palestinian point of view too, not exclusively from Palestinian pov.

According to this Harvard poll, 50% of Americans 34 and under think the October 7th massacre was justified and 67% think it was genocidal in nature. That means a minimum of 1 in 6 Americans under 35 think genocidal acts against Jews are justified, and half think October 7th was not genocidal but justified. I imagine it's way worse in Europe.

Race isn't the big difference. Not even political affiliation. It's the youths. Relevant tabs on pages 125/126. The 18-34 age bracket splits 68-32 on genocidal vs not, 49-51 on justified vs not. No other group in any category comes close.

R401 Europe is very divided. Historically, most Europeans (I mean people not government) were pro Palestine. But, I think that Hamas atrocities combined with bad experience that western Europe has with Middle eastern immigrants (lot of crime particularly sexual assaults kept under rug, people being afraid to get out after dark in once safe Europe) and Islamic terrorism have made people less prone to take pro Palestinian stance. You must know that Europe has much bigger problems with Muslim immigrants and radicals than US.

I remember that some ten years ago, when Isreal was attacking Gaza, everyone was pro Palestine. Not any more.

Far right and far left are pro Palestine. I believe it has more to do with anti Americanism, they always tend to support the side which is against America. Just like they support Russia against Ukraine.

R402 I didn't mean that only POC support Palestine. Younger generations have been raised with this anti white sentiment, no matter if their race.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but:

Sept. 11, 2001 attacks on NYC: 3,000 people killed by Islamic extremists

Nov. 2015 attacks in Paris: 130 killed by Islamic extremists

Oct. 7, 2023 attacks in Israel: 1,400 killed by Islamic extremists

What do these groups have in common? What negotiation or reasonable dialogue could have prevented these attacks?

Et al., r405:

The current movement is to consider civilian war deaths as equivalent to killings by terrorists. If it were 1945, the world would be shrugging off Auschwitz while calling for a ceasefire in Berlin. And Free Germany.

In addition to all the other attacks Islamic terrorists really enjoy targeting people out having FUN.

2002: Bali nightclub bombing: 202 dead

2015: Tunisian beach shooting: 38 dead

2015: Bataclan concert shooting: 90 dead

2016: Nice lorry attack: 87 dead

2016: Pulse nightclub shooting: 49 dead

2016: German Christmas market car attack: 12 dead

2017: Ariana Grande concert: 22 dead

2017: London Bridge car attack and stabbings: 11 dead

2023: Nova rave festival: 270+ dead

"The officials said Americans living in Israel and neighboring Lebanon are of particular concern, though they stressed that an evacuation of that magnitude is considered a worst-case scenario and that other outcomes are seen as more likely."

Part of the problem is the Jews are so unrelenting and unapologetic in defending themselves. But if you put aside your prejudice, what choice do they have? When those who attack you won't settle for anything less than your destruction, what are you supposed to do, ask for a facilitated meeting to find common ground? They are tribal, very tribal, and hard to get next to in many ways, but, again, what realistic choice do they have when another tribe is always, always, always gunning for them? The dynamic is a very high stakes version of a politician who is right and capable of the job, but nobody wants to have that fucking proverbial beer with.

I live in Miami. If the government of Cuba were to start shooting missiles at us, I fully expect my government to bomb the fuck out of them.

The gayface dentist who was sacked after ripping down posters of Israeli hostages with his muscledudebropal says he was removing them to promote peace.

He could have just apologised but no.

^ LOL... love the seductive one button lower than at the office.

Lucifer is beautiful .

Rosh Lowe, hands on hips, delivers Wilton Manors realness.

I dunno, the dentist appeared to be more smiling than stern in his four seconds of doom.

More Hamas rocket attacks just now. And some arsehole on DemUnderground posted, apparently unironically, "Did anyone ask them for a cease-fire?"

ITV News in the UK have apologised after they ran a story on anti Muslim racism as a result of the Hamas attacks and interviewed a woman who said she was called a terrorist.

Apparently they didn't know that the woman presents a show on the banned Iranian tv station Press TV where she praised the attacks.

So she literally is a terrorist. LOL

The IDF is dropping leaflets over southern Gaza promising money and protection for information leading to the rescue of the hostages.

^ Good idea. What could possibly go wrong?

[quote] I feel like people have lost their goddamn minds

Certain types 𝒉𝒂𝒗𝒆.

Certain types never had a mind in the first place.

On this issue the left is not looking good. On pretty much every other issue, the Right looks absolutely out of its mind.

I wouldn’t believe a word the IDF says. They bombed Palestinians along the safe route of evacuation last week. 1500 Israelis dead. Over 5000 Palestinians dead. The UN chief has been calling for a ceasefire. Israel does nothing but demand his resignation. I’m really sick of this Hamas human shield rhetoric too, I see Lots of little kids in Gaza dead. The US is so brainwashed into supporting wars.

Israel didn't bomb any safe routes last week - there was clear footage of a car exploding that wasn't caused by any airstrike. There were suggestions Hamas deliberately bombed a car to stop people leaving the north of Gaza, or it could have been an "accident" like the hospital airstrike that killed 500.

Hamas is going to be destroyed. Other Palestinians will die as part of that effort, sadly. The UN cannot save Hamas despite its urgent desire to do so. Israel will not accept an ISIS-type organization running the Gaza Strip, again despite the UN's desire that it do so. Hamas is going to die, despite all its friends at the UN and in the wider Arab world, not to mention Iran and Russia. It's got to go, and that will take violence and killing.

[quote] On this issue the left is not looking good. On pretty much every other issue, the Right looks absolutely out of its mind.

Look again

Maybe if they can get rid of Hamas the UN brokers a peacekeeping mission to allow Gaza to find its feet again and start the long road back to... whatever the outcome is. Seems like a two state solution is a long way away. But surely the people of Gaza want peace and stability? Even if they're Muslim in faith, surely they want rid of Hamas?

r428 are people like you ever going to figure out most of the people in Gaza have had it pounded into them from birth that Israel MUST be destroyed no matter the cost and continuing this state of affairs guarantees the Hamas leadership their power and wealth.

And once Israel falls, on to the next target.

People like me. Go fuck yourself with a landmine, R429. Yes, I get the complexity. I also get that a lot of Catholics embrace the gay brother in the family because rules for family, so I don't discount the possibility that after years of repression and suffering there may be Gazans who given the choice would quietly prefer peace over Allah, so long as they don't have to make the choice at the point of a Hamas gun. If that ramrod that runs through you rusts, I hope it's near your jaw to stop you running your stupid mouth.

We should salute NSC spokesman John Kirby for stating the obvious today that a ceasefire will only benefit the terrorists. That pulls the rug out from under all the anti-Israel people who don’t want Israel to protect itself and who want Hamas to survive to be able attack Israelis in the future.

The full completion of Israel’s operation in Gaza, then ceasefire.

[quote]1500 Israelis dead. Over 5000 Palestinians dead

That 5000 figure is no more accurate than anything else Hamas says.

[quote] The full completion of Israel’s operation in Gaza, then ceasefire.

Unfortuately the Biden delay of Israel's operation has ny now probably given the Hamas leaders enough time to slip out of the country through their tunnel system.

A ceasefire might make sense if Hamas surrendered all 200 hostages. It’s ever so curious that protesters aren’t pushing for that.

This is from former Reuters bureau chief Luke Baker who was based in Jerusalem

Death tolls, a 🧵 It seems obvious that any self-respecting news organisation would make clear that Gaza's health ministry is run by Hamas. Hamas has a clear propaganda incentive to inflate civilian casualties as much as possible. I'm not denying there are civilians being killed at all, including many children. That's verifiable. What is not verifiable are the numbers that emerge throughout the day from Gaza of new death tolls -- 700 killed in the last 24 hours, 500 killed in the Ahli hospital car park blast, 5,000 killed since Oct. 8th, etc., etc.

These numbers are vast AND almost entirely uncheckable. The only source news organisations have for them is Hamas. Most news outlets are now citing "the Hamas-run health ministry" as the source, but not all. @Reuters still refers to "Palestinian officials", which is misleading in the extreme. I oversaw Reuters' coverage of the Palestinian Territories in 2006 and again as Jerusalem bureau chief from 2014-17. There was a time when the figures from the ministry could be relied upon. The doctors and administrators knew what they were doing and were professional about it. But Hamas has now been in charge in Gaza for 16 years. It has squeezed the life out of honesty and probity. Any health official stepping out of line and not giving the death tolls that Hamas wants reported to journalists risks serious consequences

So at least a modicum of scepticism is needed with respect to the rapidly updated, and frequently round figure, death tolls. Journalists and UN officials know this, but still they repeat the numbers pushed out by Hamas, or by officials with Hamas breathing down their necks

Again, painfully, there is no question that high numbers of civilians are being killed as Israel carries out air strikes on Hamas targets through Gaza. There are multiple reasons for that, including heavy handed tactics and weaponry, well-hidden targets, mistakes and, yes, Hamas using civilians as 'human shields'. It happens. I've witnessed it. But the main point here is this: media organisations should look at themselves in the mirror and ask "how do I know what I know?" And if the answer is "because a Hamas-run health ministry official told me"

Then there are serious problems with the reliability of the information they are reporting as fact to the world. End of thread.

Just like all the posters that flooded this board with anti-trans nonsense over the last year or so, we now have similar from the pro-Israel / Bibi shills.

Yeah, it's exactly like that r436. Or maybe you're a complete moron.

Go suck a Jewish lesbian dick R436

[quote] there are serious problems with the reliability of the information they are reporting as fact to the world.

And people have noticed

[quote]Unfortuately the Biden delay of Israel's operation has ny now probably given the Hamas leaders enough time to slip out of the country through their tunnel system.

Don't they all live in Qatar? In palaces?

Thank you r435

Why are Israeli authorities letting a recently released hostage hold press conferences and do interviews when her husband and neighbors are still held hostage? It's obvious she has been pressured by Hamas into blaming Israel and speaking of Hamas favorably.

I'll tell ya, for running the media (and indeed, the world at large), these Israelis have a pretty weak PR game.

R442 - last weekend Israeli/Jewish families were being warned to take phones off their kids as Hamas were going to start sharing hostage execution videos on TikTok.

Whether Hamas had a reality check or the bombing/international diplomacy has had an effect who knows, but seeing people released is positive.

The way the BBC has covered this has been astounding. Their initial tweet was something like "Hostage shakes hand of captor" and in was changed to "Hostage says captivity was hell".

And Sky News shared countless bite size clips of the interview. The "Hostage says she was looked after" and "Hostage says captors were friendly" had thousands of retweets. The "Hostage says she was beaten by captors" had hardly any retweets.

It's easy to wish "shalom" to your captors when they have a gun at your back and you know they have a gun at your husband's head. Both of these women's husbands are still being held by Hamas—presumably they are of similar advanced age and feebleness, so why not release them too, if not to use them for insurance? They've also still got loads of their neighbors (kibbutzim are super tight knit, intentional living communities and neighbors are like family).

Honestly, can these media outlets really be THIS dense?

In the UK it's been reported that Muslim MPs in the Labour Party have demanded a meeting with Keir Starmer over his pro Israel stance. Considering he isn't Prime Minister (yet) I'm not sure what they're expecting him to do. There have been resignations at city/town councillor level.

And in Scotland people are asking why Humza Yousaf, their Muslim First Minister with a Palestinian wife, is giving more money to Gaza than to communities in Scotland who were flooded last week.

I think as a Jew right now, I would be more afraid to live in London than Israel.

R446 Paris is even worse.

The very pleasant Eylon Levy is being interviewed on BBC's Newsnight today. VERY VERY effective communicator. He sounds British so knows about the interview style and pushed back on every matter.

"Gaza hospitals running out of fuel, babies dying ETC ETC"

"Hamas have stolen fuel, they have huge fuel storage in Gaza"

R448, of course Hamas has everything it needs. They’ve got all those “guests” to entertain, plus a war to prepare for. They’re not going to share anything with anyone. Their monstrousness has been established. It’s not relevant to the fate of the rest of Gaza.

R424, You don't know what you're blathering about. There was no Israeli bombing of evacuees. You are among the many gulls.

[quote] A ceasefire might make sense if Hamas surrendered all 200 hostages.

And not a mention of the 4000+ Palestinians that Israel are illegally holding in their prisons? You sly thing you

[quote] Honestly, can these media outlets really be THIS dense?

MSNBC and their ilk know exactly what they are doing

𝐌𝐮𝐥𝐭𝐢𝐩𝐥𝐞 𝐚𝐭𝐭𝐚𝐜𝐤𝐬 𝐨𝐧 𝐔𝐒 𝐭𝐫𝐨𝐨𝐩𝐬 𝐢𝐧 𝐭𝐡𝐞 𝐌𝐢𝐝𝐝𝐥𝐞 𝐄𝐚𝐬𝐭

11 attacks in Iraq and 3 in Syria, according to Pentagon officials

R451, how “sly” of you to equate Gazans workers who were in Israel, had their permits revoked, and were detained in wartime…with children and the elderly who were kidnapped and taken across the border.

R454 mmmm no dickhead I’m referring to the 4000+ Palestinian prisoners that have been sitting in Israeli prisons from prior to October 7th, over 1000 of these being arrested for no reason, with no charges made against them and no court dates set. Mostly arrested in the West Bank and then illegally take to Israel for detention. That’s who I was referring to. Stop embarrassing yourself.

This doesn’t even take into account the additional 6000+ arrested and detained in the last week. And then you go on and on about Hamas with their 200 hostages.

r455, are your numbers manufactured by the same machine that the Hamas Health Ministry uses for casualty counts?

R453, as soon as I started reading about attacks on US forces, whether true or not, the US will be very involved very soon, perhaps even attacking Iran directly.

Honestly. Kind of satisfying to see the transformation.

R456 deflect deflect deflect.

R456 Yes, please source your numbers—and particularly your claim that these prisoners were held with "no charges".

Ever notice that the alleged Palestinian dead, wounded, or incarcerated always number in the multiple thousands?

The Palestinian reports are like: "Israeli Occupiers wounded, 23; Palestinian children killed, 3,754." "Invading Israeli soldiers killed, 14; Palestinian evacuees targeted and killed, 5,262." "Israeli hostages, alive and well, 58; Palestinian political prisoners, languishing without charges, 4,090."

R460 voila Israeli sources and hosted on an Israeli news site.

R462, 1100 < 4000 + 6000 [See: r455].

This is really sad. The detainees are being held because they suspected of terrorism. The article at 462 outlines a process to detain them without charges, but there is a legal process that has to be followed. I would be against this kind of policy in the US.

What is sad, and somewhat chilling, is that one or more posters are saying this is the same as crossing a border, shooting at civilians in their homes and schools, marching them across the while killing hundreds of others, and then holding the hostage. Hostages that include babies, children, and the elderly.

One must really hate Israel and humanity to say that this is trivial or equivalent to undemocratic detentions.

R463 what’s your point? I’m both of those comments you’re referring to.

What R394 has written tracks with my experiences in Europe (UK partner)--support for Palestine and anti-Israeli sentiment is a way to ally against the US. Anti American sentiment is just always beneath the surface, I find.

R399--I see the same thing on social media. Near hysterical support of Palestine and nearly no mention of the hostages.

[quote]One must really hate Israel and humanity to say that this is trivial or equivalent to undemocratic detentions.

I’d counter that it’s trivial of you to refer to the systemic illegal imprisonment of a population, terrorizing them and their families, as ‘undemocratic’. Denying them visitation, moving them to a facility in a foreign state etc etc. You clearly don’t value Palestinian and Israeli lives as being equivalent.

R467, who are these people? What are the circumstances of their detention? I don’t see detaining a Palestinian throwing rocks at Israeli soldiers as equivalent to a kidnapping a toddler. Apparently, that’s just me.

In "The Arab Lobby in the United States Handbook," HaMoked, the source of r455, is an "anti-Israel NGO." (p. 92)

The link is too long.

R465, My point is the exaggeration.

R470 no you don’t have a point. 1100 is the amount of prisoners held on administrative detention, 4000+ the total amount of prisoners prior to Oct 7th, and 10000 is where we stand now. Do you know what a subset is, and what it means? Wow the standard around here these days is :/

Even now, after all the evidence provided by Israel and already shared by Hamas, the BBC are responding to descriptions of the Hamas atrocities as "unverified".

Here's how to identify Hamas Terrorist Sympathizers, not simply Palestinian Empathizers:

Timing.

They will post seemingly unassailable sentiments as, "We mourn the loss of all innocent lives." Or, "Dead children are not acceptable 'collateral damage'."

But NEVER are these sentiments stated when Israeli civilians are initially attacked and slain. Oh, no. The "Think About the Children" Gene remains dormant.

No. Statements of Outraged Concern are stated ONLY after Israel fights back, and then are referring ONLY to Palestinians.

To these Hamas Terrorist Supporters, the children, wives, mothers, and sisters of The Oppressor Israelis do not matter. They are fair game for any violence, at any time.

But in the West such an opinion is not cricket; not, if you will, kosher.

So it is cloaked in unarguable language, but with the dog-whistle of.....

TIMING.

"Turkish President Tayyip Erdogan, in his strongest comments yet on the Gaza conflict, said on Wednesday the Palestinian militant group Hamas was not a terrorist organisation but a liberation group fighting to protect Palestinian lands and people."

Thanks r462 & R463 so, for the math challenged among us:

Number of detainees in Israel is not 4000 or 6000. It’s about [checks link] … about 1,100.

I don’t know what that 6000 figure refers to.

I beg your pardon r474, but the President of Turkey is Viktor Orbán.

Liberals are so stupid.

Btw the Times of Israel link at r462 is from July 2023. Don’t know where the additional 10,000 Palestinian detainees came from.

Or how Israel could have constructed additional facilities to hold them in, in just a few months.

wow R475 you're a really special kind of stupid. The 1100 refers to the prisoners on 'administrative detention' which are those that are being held without charge and without a trial set. These are a subset (there's that word again) of the total amount being held. Not all of the prisoners are being held in this manner...the rest were charged or have a trial set. Thus the larger amount is 4000+ (as mentioned in TOF link below).

[quote] Btw the Times of Israel link at [R462] is from July 2023

And wow you somehow get even dumber. I deliberately chose a pre Oct 7th link because like I had mentioned in 455 "I’m referring to the 4000+ Palestinian prisoners that have been sitting in Israeli prisons from prior to October 7th, over 1000 of these being arrested for no reason", that was the amount of prisoners sitting in Israeli prisons prior to the Hamas attacks on October 7th. Are you braindead?

[quote] Israeli and international rights groups, including Amnesty International, as well as the Palestine Liberation Organization, had issued public calls for Israel to vaccinate the estimated 4,400 Palestinian security prisoners held in its jails.

Now here's another article (yes pre Oct 7th I know, try concentrate on why that's relevant, re-read above and take a break if your brain is hurting), on an israeli media site, which cites Israeli, Palestinian and international sources, saying that there were 4000+ total Palestinian prisoners in Israeli jails.

Right, I will give it to you for those 1,100 detainees. That is fucked up and fuck Netanyahu for that (as for most things), but that's still a far cry from the 10,000+ you've claimed (and like, the 3,000+ "child prisoners" that other Pro-Hammasians claim).

And it says nothing in that last article you posted about those 4,400 prisoners being held indefinitely without charges.

[quote] And it says nothing in that last article you posted about those 4,400 prisoners being held indefinitely without charges.

I never said that they were babe. I even quoted my earlier comment in my comment at 478 and made the qualification between those that were being held in total and the number that are being held without charges. You're soooooooooo stupid lol.

But you just keep on at it, embarrassing yourself with every single comment you post. You were wrong about the 1100, you were repeatedly wrong about understanding the difference between 4000+ and a group of 1100 within them, you've been making the thread difficult to follow with your ignorant ranting, what makes you think you won't be wrong about the new figure being 10,000. You've been wrong about everything up until now, why would it change?

First of all, R480, you type like a fat 8-year-old girl having a temper tantrum in a McDonald's ball pit.

Second of all, I quote thee: "And not a mention of the 4000+ Palestinians that Israel are illegally holding in their prisons?"

R481 le sigh. Taking prisoners from Palestine into Israel for detention is illegal. So all Palestinians removed from Palestine and placed in Israeli prisons are being illegally held. But you keep trying babe ;)

[quote]Under The Fourth Geneva Convention, an Occupying Power is prohibited from carrying out individual or mass forcible transfer of protected persons from the occupied territory to its own territory or to the territory of another country.

Now would you ever fuck off and give it up. You're a mess.

R482, while you keep insulting r481, can you identify the *subset* of Palestinians who were in Gaza and moved to Israel? That would be astonishingly foolhardy of Israel to cross the border. If you are including West Bank, can you identify how many were in Palestinian and not Israeli controlled territory?

And exactly what evidence do you have that this was the case with these 4,400 Palestinian prisoners? Tens of thousands of Gazans travelled into Israel every day with work permits prior to the 7th. And there have been hundreds of terrorist attacks and attempted terrorist attacks by Palestinians on Israeli soil. The article from 2021 said nothing about mass forcible transfer of those prisoners.

What this article DID tell me was that these Palestinian security prisoners received their COVID vaccines months earlier than the bulk of American citizens.

All this yammering over statistics is becoming tiresome.

Beulah, peel me a grape.

[quote]Beulah, peel me a grape

That wasn't Tallulah.

R482 has zero sources for his figures or claims, r483. The pieces from Times of Israel he cites don’t back up his wild assertions of 10,000 detainees.

The meltdown of this thread has been fascinating.

Word. Can we get a Part 6 going, OP?

I'll do it. Hold on.

Here

[quote] The pieces from Times of Israel he cites don’t back up his wild assertions of 10,000 detainees.

They do back up the assertions of the 1000+ detainees in administrative detention and 4000+ that were being held in Israeli prisons though which was the main thrust of my argument 😏

Which after every time I proved you losers wrong you pretended you hadn’t been contending and moved onto someting else.

The 10,000 prisoners is cited in Al Jazeera, and is early days for international confirmation but let’s see what happens in the next few days.

[QUOTE] The meltdown of this thread has been fascinating.

You read through this whole thing, to the bitter end? Must be a masochist.

Tehran hangs butch lesbians from a Maypole.

[bold]BAJOUR![/bold]

Looks like more strongly worded statements and definitive information on hospital blast is coming out now. Of course no one will pay attention and people will still say "what about Israel blowing up hospital is Gaza".

British Prime Minister Rishi Sunak was the latest, telling the UK parliament on Monday:

"On the basis of the deep knowledge and analysis of our intelligence and weapons experts, the British government judges that the explosion was likely caused by a missile, or part of one, that was launched from within Gaza towards Israel."

The Canadian government released findings of its own assessment, saying Israel was not to blame.

"Analysis conducted independently by the Canadian Forces Intelligence Command indicates with a high degree of confidence that Israel did not strike the hospital on October 17, 2023," Defence Minister Bill Blair said in a statement.

"The more likely scenario is that the strike was caused by an errant rocket fired from Gaza."

I'm waiting for Al Jazeera to update its coverage. I'll probably be waiting a long time.

Tue October 24, 2023

The New York Times walks back flawed Gaza hospital coverage, but other media outlets remain silent

Reuters and CNN admitted no fault in its coverage of the blast.

---------------------

The Times held out a week.

Internet and phone signals down across Gaza as Israel ramp up the elimination of Hamas

Thinking about these two brothers, their parents, partners and children. Am Yisrael Chai.

Rumors floating online that Israel's ground invasion starts tonight.

Here we fucking go.

Immediate truce voted United Nations 120 contrived in favor 14 opposed and to leave an open corridor open in Gaza for humanitarian aid. The US and Israel voted no. Biden says he doesn’t believe the huge death toll of Palestinians even though the Health Ministry has been counting and being checked for decades. Just look at the satellite pictures you old fucker. What’s the end game here? A great interview with Judith Butler on Democracy Now. How can Israel feel safe with these nuts running their country, the IDF blood libel, Netanyahu and his bigotry, and Biden, the syphilis I voted for, feeding the fire with the never ending support for a right wing racist Israel. Genocide is genocide, and you can put an American flag on it, but it still won’t make it not so.

PBS News Hour reports that it's likely Israel has commenced the ground invasion now.

On PBS yesterday they showed some before October 7 and after aerial images of blocks and blocks of parts of Gaza. There's nothing left except Independence Day style rubble. Did anyone else see that?

Some of the images on the news days are day are horrific. Brutal. I saw a report on PBS about how according to Jewish custom all parts of the body must be buried together so they were using paint scrapers to scrape off the walls etc. I kid you not.

PBS link: Gaza before Oct 7/now = 16.30 Relative looking for bodies 23.40

[quote]Immediate truce voted United Nations 120 contrived in favor 14 opposed and to leave an open corridor open in Gaza for humanitarian aid. The US and Israel voted no. Biden says he doesn’t believe the huge death toll of Palestinians even though the Health Ministry has been counting and being checked for decades. Just look at the satellite pictures you old fucker. What’s the end game here? A great interview with Judith Butler on Democracy Now. How can Israel feel safe with these nuts running their country, the IDF blood libel, Netanyahu and his bigotry, and Biden, the syphilis I voted for, feeding the fire with the never ending support for a right wing racist Israel. Genocide is genocide, and you can put an American flag on it, but it still won’t make it not so.

"Health Ministry" = you mean Hamas

"A great interview with Judith Butler" - a fucking crank who thinks Palestinians aren't accountable for their actions

"Democracy now" - a "news" site that regularly hosts Putin apologists and appeasers

"the IDF blood libel" - honey, lay off the crack

[quote] On PBS yesterday they showed some before October 7 and after aerial images of blocks and blocks of parts of Gaza. There's nothing left except Independence Day style rubble. Did anyone else see that?

War is rough on real estate.

R503, spoken like a true MAGAT who believes in alternative facts