10 Immortals in Music

Beyonce has zero memorable songs like the others, who have dozens.

R1 Name 5 Tupac and Kurt Cobain songs right now bitch don’t google neevah.

The Rolling Stones have been going for 60 years. Their iconic status has been confirmed.

Single Ladies is the most memorable song of the 20th century.

She also has Crazy In Love, If I were a Boy, Irreplaceable, Halo, Break My Soul. Yo stankin ass tried it.

21st century*

You lost me at Beyoncé.

R6 Oh well. That isn’t my fault. I clearly said independent of your personal taste. R3 you are right. I might have to take Posty off.

Madonna but no Led Zeppelin?

Ah crap, TeaCake is back

Beyonce and Post Malone - riiiiiight

Elton John has much more memorable work than Beyonce!

Pogue Mahone > Post Malone

Some of you are so old. Good god. Beyoncé is literally the commercial face of feminism. She will be remembered for quite some time. Dropped an album with no promotion or announcement. Sold a mil in one week. It’s literally called pulling a Beyonce. Lemonade is the most critically acclaimed album of any genre since the early aughts.

OP, off the top of my head, I can't recall those Beyonce songs, other than Single Ladies. I don't know a single Post Malone or Tupac song, and can't really immediately think of a Kurt Cobain song.

I'd also add Tina Turner (at least for recognition), Whitney Houston, and (boringly) Bruce Springsteen.

r13 "literally"

No, Teacake, she's literally not.

R15 Touché.

Jimi Hendrix

Remove Taylor, Beyonce and Post Malone

Add Whitney Houston

[quote]Single Ladies is the most memorable song of the 20th century.

R18 Nah. When many Gen Zers hear Whitney on the radio they think its Mariah Carey. Plus most of her signature songs were covers.

Ashlee Simpson

The fact that the OP actually believed that list was valid reflects a much broader problem with people today.

They lack any sense of historical perspective.

Elvis, the Beatles and Prince. The rest are not even close.

And Post Malone? Don't even make me laugh. His shit's all autotuned.

What about Babs?

Judy Garland Neil Diamond Billy Joel

Most people can name one of their songs, if not more. I couldn't tell you a single song by any of those other "artists" you list...except Madonna but her voice has always been shit. She will only be remembered for her sex shit.

R22 Only 2 of the artists I listed came out in the past 20 yrs: Taylor and Posty.

Janbot hasn't stunk up this thread yet. Maybe it died?

R23 That’s not true. But I guess you heard heard one or two songs from him that are so you say it’s true in your reality 🤷

R26 why the fuck would you speak its name.

Im a Janet stan (not Janbot) I personally dont care if she's not on every list with artists that appeal to the great unwashed!

We Jan fans have refined tastes, bitches

Honorable mention to Little Richard.

Post Malone (who I don’t hate and hear he’s a lovely fellow) but not Jimi Hendrix?

Ok remove Posty and Kurt Cobain replace with Jimi Hendrix and the Stones.

David Bowie ring a bell to you, OP?

Beyonce is no icon!

Beethoven

R35 I’m talking recorded music. And generally commercial music with lyrics and vocal.

Nirvana is huge with the kids. Kurt is on any list of immortals for sure.

R2, Smells Like Teenspirit, Come As You Are, Lithium, In Bloom. Where Did You Sleep Last Night, All Apologies, About a Girl, Man Who Sold The World, Heart Shaped Box, Sliver.

Just off the top of my head.

These are the people who are bona fide music icons from OP's Rolling Stone like list:

Elvis

MJ

The Beatles

Madonna

Taylor Swift

Prince

The other names OP supplied are all ridiculous. Corbain is famed for dying and one song. The music isn't remembered or listened to now R37.

Bruce Springsteen and Queen. Mariah because of that Christmas song.

One song does not make a music artist an icon R39. Yes to Queen. No to Springsteen. No to Carey.

These are the highest selling artists of all time and all of them should be on the list whether we like them or not.

This is the list of highest selling music artists of all time:

Barbra Streisand

Cher

David Bowie

Donna Summer

Are you actually serious R42?

Yes to Bowie. No to the rest. Nobody listens to Streisand, Cher or Summer anymore now. Music immortals or icons means they earned their place, they were juggernauts and their music and names will live on.

Wanna be remembered? Try classical music. Fades come and go, but the standards are standards. There's nothing new under the sun.

Beyonce is the most overrated, manufactured artist of the last quarter century.

[quote] These are the highest selling artists of all time

Sales figures do NOT equal good music. The Macarena sold a lot.

Only a truly dire basic bitch would think so.

The Queen is an entertainment and r&b genius.

Beyonce. Also known as "she do too much"

r47 please see r19

R46 - the Macarena? Only a truly dire basic bitch would make the comparison or even suggest it.

Those music artist are the highest selling artists of all time for a reason. Because they all produced excellent music which sold worldwide. These artists then held and retained public attention for a long time and still do to this day.

R37, you mean because you see kids wearing Nirvana smiley face shirts all the time now?

They don’t even know it’s a band, they think it is a BRAND.

Exactly R51 - kids aren't listening to actual Nirvana music. There's a whole lot of people posting in this thread who have zero idea what they're talking about.

Whatever, this is the hottest shit out there. The business has become too fragmented to agree on the future of durability. They'll all be remembered now with computers and YouTube pulling what we think is the hottest shit ever.

Bob Dylan

Aretha Franklin

The Beatles

MJ

Whitney

Prince

Elvis

The Stones

Elton John

Johnny Cash

Ok. If you look up Nirvana on Spotify, they have 28 million monthly listeners and 2 songs with a billion plus streams. The idea that the kids are not listening to them is absurd.

Madonna has to be on the list if the list is to be credible R54. Remove Dylan or Cash and swap with Madonna and that's a very good list. The best posted so far. Not bad.

Not sure about Cash though. He hasn't left a lasting legacy and most people don't know who he is or any of his music. I would remove Cash and Dylan and replace with Madonna and Queen.

Beatles Stones Bowie Nirvana Stevie Wonder MJ Prince Madonna Elvis Whitney

R55 probably thinks "kids" are listening to Barbra Streisand @ billions of streams frequency too.

Stevie and Bowie are great additions. Maybe it's a top 20 list instead of top 10. Or top 40 since it's music-related.

r52 Correct- starting with OP

Nirvana = not on the list of most streamed artists:

Barbra Streisand has no streaming presence. You guys will say some stupid crap that contradicts what the evidence points to. Smells Like Teen Spirit has 1.7 billion streams on YouTube.

You keep changing your story R62.

Nirvana - although they have their place in music history - do not belong on a top 10 of music icons list. End of.

Part of the problem is trying to narrow it down arbitrarily to a Top Ten when, music over the past hundred years is far more varied and complex than to be reduced to a single Top Ten. Not gonna happen.

And on no planet is Post Malone on such a list but not Garth Brooks. I am no country fan, but Garth Brooks was one of the biggest artists of the 20th century. Post Malone is a blip.

The Eagles have always been enjoyable to listen to.

New List

Elvis Presley•James Brown •Little Richard

MJ•Beyoncé•Madge

Janis Joplin•Jimi Hendrix•Amy Winehouse

Stevie Wonder•Aretha Franklin•Frank Sinatra

Nirvana•Tupac Shakur•Eminem

Jay-Z•Rolling Stones•The Beatles

Taylor Swift•Prince

Some of you are missing the point. I’m not merely popular artists or top selling artists. I’m talking about popular artists who will be remembered and still listened to and cherished as cultural icons for later generations. I’m talking about artistry but also long term cultural influence because of the brand, not merely in a commercial sense, but the idea they represent. Obviously this is going to be artist with long term success and popularity. They created something original or distinct within whatever genre of the music landscape they encompassed. And immediately come to mind a certain look or idea. These people will be remembered by GEN Z and their grandchildren and their grandchildren.

I thought I stated that in original post.

Darnit Bruce Springsteen and Kanye West and Elton John also need to be on this list.

Beyonce

or as Got2BReal had Aretha calling her....

"Be on her way to jail for plagiarizing - ce"

Bob Dylan Aretha Franklin Madonna Eminem The Eagles Queen Michael Jackson Whitney Houston Bruce Springsteen ABBA

So many have truly pedestrian tastes.

r71 Starting with OP

R71 This isn’t about taste cunt. Is reading no longer fundamental? I’m sure some of you who posted actually READ the summation before the list.

If one is functionally illiterate please do not post on my threads.

It's absolutely about taste and artistic appreciation. Sales figures will never, ever, ever, ever, E V E R dictate art.

Your thread OP? I pay 2 bucks to post at will. And your original post lacked Bruce Springsteen. A true legend.

R76. He is indeed. But he might actually not be remembered for future generations with rock music dying and all. The Beatles and the Stones and even Pink Floyd, which I just realized should be on this list are different. They are rock but they laid a foundation and are iconic. Pink Floyd created a new genre which kid sun high school still listen today. Even if rock music completely ends The Beatles will be remembered. Bruce’s particular brand of heartland rock is especially dying. The Beatles sound was sort of like r&b rock with basic pop song structures that Motown mastered/created and continue to influence the later decades.

Btw I saw Bruce on Seth Myers the other day. Good lawd he is a hot fkin daddy bear. Is he Jewish?

Here is my list of recording artists that are icons whether you personally like or dislike them or their music. They just are and will probably be remembered until society evolves into something we cannot imagine.

This is opinionated but….some of you lack reading comprehension skills.

[quote] OP, off the top of my head, I can't recall those Beyonce songs, other than Single Ladies. I don't know a single Post Malone or Tupac song, and can't really immediately think of a Kurt Cobain song.

OK. You are a Datalounger! You have to accept that you are in that tiny subset of humanity that lives to hate on extraordinarily popular and iconic personalities born after 1965. In five months Beyonce's tour has grossed over $500 million. You think she cares that some old crone at Datalounge doesn't know her songs?

Gay guy number one: You philistines think sales mean quality. Your taste level is disgusting! Madonna? Whitney Houston? Beyoncé? Nirvana? Gay guy number two: Oh it is that gay guy who really likes Linda Perhacs. Gay guy number three: Who is Linda Perhacs? Gay guy number one: Who is Linda Perhacs? Who the fuck is Linda Perhacs? AAAAAARRRRRRGGGGHHHH! Gay guy number two: You shouldn’t have said that. He really likes Linda Perhacs.

R79 Your reading comprehension skills are lacking, to say the least. Did you read anywhere where I said Beyonce cared? Oh, sweetheart, further your education, starting with reading/writing.

BEYONCE FUCKING SUCKS

R79 Right thats what kills me about this site. Be real. If you don’t personally like someone or any topic fine but don’t negate it’s impact. Besides Tina Turner no other black female performer has ever been able to tour like Beyoncé. Her songs become anthems. And so what she chose not have a bunch of unforgettable “pop” hits for the past decade. That’s a real artist is. Mariah Carey has 16 number one singles. How many of those songs are as memorable as Dancing in the Dark, Comfortably Numb, Formation.

"chose not have "

"That’s a real artist is."

r83 Teacake you always get so worked up that you can't even form sentences.

I can’t even think of another female artist who has had as long a run as Beyoncé. Madonna maybe. I mean where the new stuff they release is still culturally relevant, sells, and is nominated for the general category awards. Beyoncé scored her first number one single in 1999. Her first top 10 hit in 1997. We are creepin up on 2024.

R84 😂 Touché.

R40 R41 and R61 those lists are fascinating. Surprised to see Pink Floyd so high and the Rolling Stones so low on the one at R41

Sorry OP Post Malone is nowhere on the first two lists although he did well on streaming platforms briefly in 2019. Ditto Tupac Shakur

Who I am surprised is so high is Rihanna, I wasnt aware of that, I'll freely admit to being out of the loop though

They are really interesting aren't they R87. Some on the list are big surprises - like Rihanna at #8. I was also surprised by Eminem at #10 but it makes sense once you think about it. He brought hip hop to mainstream white people and into the main charts worldwide. I had no idea he had sold so many records. Or Rihanna.

Although someone called me a tacky basic mole - I posted them because the are a pretty solid place to start. I'm not a fan of most of the top 10 - but I can understand why/how they should be on that list in those places.

I just assumed OP was talking about worldwide popular music from the around last 50 years from the examples on his list and explanation. Not about classical music otherwise OP would have said "composers".

R83 - Beyoncé is very talented, beautiful and has earned her place as music industry royalty and has been a huge success. But she isn't top 10. She's not top 20 either. And I'm saying that as someone who really likes her. She needs longer yet I reckon she has more to do to make it into the top 10. Same for Post Malone but you might be right. I think this list will be always changing and evolving.

R4 I feel Beyonce is pretty much a PR creation. Who covers her songs? I don't hear the piped in muzac at Kroger playing any of her songs. Single Ladies is the only song of hers I've ever heard on the radio. As for her 'sales' - like Madonna and Garth Brooks, those artists are guaranteed a # of sales, whether any human being actually shells out money to purchase it. A far better known AA singer is Dionne Warwick. She's got hits, tons, and she's wonderful.

R88 Hip Hop did not bring hip hop to mainstream white folks you dope. Plenty of artists did that before. He just was massively successful and considered by his peers as one of the greatest rappers ever.

MC Hammer, Will Smith, Ll Cool J, The Fugees all before him were popular with mainstream audiences

And DMX and Jay-Z were selling more than Eminem in the late 90s.

I meant to type Eminem* did not bring hip hop to mainstream in any unprecedented way.

R90 what?

And you old queens are just lying. I hear Halo, Crazy In Live and Irreplaceable all the time on adult pop stations/-the radio stations that play recurrent hits from the past all the time in the grocery store. I don’t know maybe they don’t play black artist on the adult pop stations Iowa.

[quote] I can’t even think of another female artist who has had as long a run as Beyoncé. Madonna maybe. I mean where the new stuff they release is still culturally relevant, sells, and is nominated for the general category awards. Beyoncé scored her first number one single in 1999. Her first top 10 hit in 1997. We are creepin up on 2024.

There is no one. Probably not even Madonna. She has more Grammys than any other human being, and a record-shattering, colossally successful tour at 42 years old, 26 years into her professional career. She has one of the most loyal, ardent fanbases in popular music history.

Now, cue the dumb queen who wants to say none of this matters because she can't hum a Beyonce song.

[quote] [R4] I feel Beyonce is pretty much a PR creation.

If PR had created her she'd be white -- like Taylor or Britney.

R95 Right. A PR creation doesn’t cater to 13% of population half of which only buys bootlegs cds when they were popular. These old queens don’t realize how absurd they sound. If they could find a beautiful white woman who could sing in 6 inch heels while dancing like the love child of Michael Jackson and Tina Turner the industry would. If they could find a white chick to sing a ballad in the vein of Jill Scott and then sing like Celine Dion they would. Beyoncé built her own shit. She started as teen of an r&b group on black radio and BET.

Obviously her crossover looks enabled her access to mainstream vehicles early in her career. But her and her family built this shit. She is no media creation. The media reacted to her massive success and like I said crossover appeal.

The one Beyoncé song I hear on the radio a lot is “Irreplaceable.” Anyway, Beyoncé has been around awhile, but she also hasn’t had much competition. She gets overrated because people compare her to the mediocrity of like Katy Perry and Rihanna. Unlike Tina, she lip-syncs. She also growls too much and uses too much melisma when she shows off vocally.

Teacake R96 How much caffeine do you drink a day? Are you mixing it with other stuff?

For the Nirvana naysaysers: You personally don't have to like the band or even get the band. You might only know Teenspirit. That's all good and well.

But Nirvana is the only band not from the 60s who would be on the Immortal List. They get the credit for completely changing music - something only a couple of bands have ever done. And that legacy has stuck.

They are also a bit like James Dean for actors. They don't have a large body of work, but what they do have is beloved by, now, three generations. They have a mystique that makes them infinitely interesting. Yes, that includes Cobain's death.

And on that note, they have one of the most enigmatic and fascinating frontman ever. Oh, and their drummer is a pretty big rock star himself. One of the last remaining. Which keeps Nirvana even more in the public eye by proxy.

Maybe they won't deserved to be on this list at some point in the future. But as of now? I just don't see that happening.

R98 Don’t worry about what I consume. You handle what you got going on over there I’m a handle this.

Beyoncé has had just as much competition as anyone else in the game. People act like Beyoncé is some type of God or something, I bough she is a Goddess. She had competition from Ashanti, Keyshia Coles, Monica’s, Brandys. And in the pop world Lady Gaga, Rih, Adele. And all the fellas who dance and sing like her Usher and JT. Just because you son or outlive the competition doesn’t mean you didn’t have any.

Queen Bey rarely lip sings. She might lipsing the hook during one of her dance routines. This is one of her greatest live performances. Will Smith bitch overshadowed it.

[quote] Anyway, Beyoncé has been around awhile, but she also hasn’t had much competition.

LOL!!! That's like saying Barbra Streisand or Diana Ross had no competition. Hate it or love it, Beyonce is the top of the heap, baby. Others have come and gone...Britney, JLo, GaGa, Xtina, Rihanna, Adele, etc.

I would say that the talent level of performers has dropped in the last twenty/ thirty years pretty steeply, and Beyoncé has benefited from this. Look at where we are now with Taylor Swift, Olivia Rodrigo, or Sza. They may be selling out arenas but they get clowned on social media for sucking. Also, Britney, Jlo, and Rihanna are actually points towards her not having much competition. They can’t sing, can’t write, and one of them can’t even dance.

[quote] They can’t sing, can’t write, and one of them can’t even dance.

Oh, really, bitch?! Which one?!

The difference between someone like Elton (who I was never a big fan of) is that his songs were memorable in a way you would want to hear them years later and it would still spark emotions. A song like Single lady turns into a meme. Those two artists are not on the same plane.

- Rolling Stones

- Queen

- Freddie Mercury (yes, deserves to be named separately)

- Tina Turner

- Michael Jackson

- Prince

- Aretha Franklin

- Beatles

- Elton John

- Fleetwood Mac

Short version: Beyonce is very overrated. You could really find any pretty girl like her in generic neighborhood. If she can dance, she could be Beyonce. Do I dislike Beyonce? Not in the least - she's just blah, boring, easily swappable.

R106 Memes didn’t exist when Elton created pop ballads. I’m so glad I’m not a basic thinker. Single Ladies is played at every wedding reception, dance hall, high school spring dance, and still on pop radio. It will be a timeless bop like Gloria’s I will Survive.

She sounds awful in that clip, r102. She can't sing. Sure, she can sing better than you or me, but for a professional singer - and supposedly one of the top female artists of today - she is complete crap. The problem is people today have absolutely no idea of what proper singing is. Any one of those backing singers (who are sustaining Beyonce for most of the performance - her actual solo moments are few) could probably perform better than her

R110 Only to you cunt. Only to you. Every one else thought she sounded great. Her voice is rich and soulful. It seems like her voice actually gets better with age; it gets stronger.

R110 that performance has no backup singers only a backing vocal track. They are live instruments being played but no backup live singers.

[quote]I’m so glad I’m not a basic thinker. Single Ladies is played at every wedding reception, dance hall,

So was The Macarena.

I am so glad I am not a Simpleton.

R112 must only have watched the first 20 seconds of that video if he didn't hear the backing singers. Who do you think the ladies with the microphones at 3.55 are?

It would be even worse for Beyonce's live skills, r112, if she's relying on pre-recorded backing vocals.

Beyonce? No problem. Her fan? I wish he’d drown himself in the Gowanus. Enough with the “queen” shrieking. You are more annoying than the Greg haters and Her Dear Paul combined.

R111 has no fucking idea what a good female vocalist sounds like. As I said, people today have very little comprehension of what a great singer is. Watch the linked video - Beyonce couldn't hold a candle to these women.

No Led Zeppelin??

I can't take your list seriously, OP.

Good day for drowning in the Gowanus, r116.

R117 Ho please. I’m a singer. Her F5s and vibrato are flawless. I would post more of her singing that type of music but y’all will say I’m crazy.

This performance is special to me. The only one of hers I’ve seen live. I was there.

R114 oh yea you are right. My mistake. The path was never paint with go-o-o-old. I love her interpretation. No one in modern pop music takes their songs to the next level like that and do those classic soul melismas. She is so dam genius vocally. Her voice is like a fkin instrument.

You have lost your mind putting Post Malone on that list.

Belting out a few lines does not make a great vocalist, r120. That song sounds like a racket. It is not a beautiful thing to listen to. Sorry to say that if it's special to you, but does it really move your soul?

Yes but to each it’s own. I like hip/hop & r&b highly influenced by funk and gogo.

I think the musicians who end up on this list should have two things in common: They changed the game somehow AND they were insanely popular. They shifted culture on more than one level.

I LOVE Pink Floyd and Elton. But they didn't really change the conversation. Bowie is probably my favorite musician ever. But his songs weren't big enough, I fear. Though I'm fine with him on any list! U2 was as big a band as any who existed. But they didn't change the culture in any lasting way.

So for me it's:

Elvis

The Beatles

Bob Dylan

Queen

Madonna

MJ

Nirvana

Jay Z

Eminem

Taylor Swift (pains me to write this)

R125 you are absolutely right and I can't believe I left Bowie out in my top 10. Per your definition of "influentialness", I will bump Fleetwood Mac off the list to make room for David.

You forgot Streisand.

Howard Stern exposed Bey's 'singing' years ago on his show. He played the unfiltered vocals to If I Was a Boy, and it was brutal. Of course Howard that made her hotter, because she couldn't sing.

Donna Summer!!

[quote]Besides Tina Turner no other black female performer has ever been able to tour like Beyoncé.

There ain't no Beyonce wall clock. Just sayin'.

R128 You dumb fuck. I guess you didn’t see the episode where Stern had the guy on that said it was all a prank. You dumb cunt. He engineered the screeching. You think everybody would be applauding and cheering in the audience to that awful shit that was released. Americans are hopeless.

Btw this is what you talking about. Anyone with a brain could realize it had to be manipulated. She been performing for 15 yrs to standing ovations. At the Grammys and everything.

Donna Summer as huge as she was; was a fad. She never really became a thing post disco outside 1 or 2 hits. She had a about a nice 8 yr run.

Sometimes the number of hits runs counter to great influence. Pearl, BKA Janis Joplin only had two hits but was a cultural tsunami insofar as her impact on female vocalists going into the late 20th century.

R133 👏 👏. Speak on it.

I’m convinced people downplay the Queens vocals because she a sexy performer which people aren’t used to when it comes to vocal powerhouses. She can literally sing anything.

Please stop R135.

R136 speaking of which she’s a great rapper too.

R131 OMG that was horrible! Poor Bey! To think they tinkered with that Nghtengale's voice to make her sound like a screeching cat. LOL.

Bey sux.

[quote]10 Immortals in Music...

Shithead doesn't know the definition of either "immortals" or "icon." And the last phrase deserves both a "Mary" and for her second-grade teacher to be fired.

Turds do not belong in the brain pan.

Deal with it. The Queen is a living icon to everyone under 50. Deal with it. Queen Bey is brilliant. And she never sold out.

R125 has a pretty good list I think. I don't know what the obsession is with having Nirvana and Dylan on the list but it's still a pretty good list. They both have their place in music royalty history but I don't think either she be on the list.

What did Nirvana and Dylan really do to be on the list R125?

Oh fuck off R99 , just for comparing drugged out overrated Nirvana led by drugged out overrated asshole Kurt Cobain to James Dean. Cobain wasn't fit to be Dean's valet or lick his boots after he'd been in the pig sty at his family's farm. In fact, Nirvana is in the same overrated league as Beyonce.

[quote]They get the credit for completely changing music - something only a couple of bands have ever done. And that legacy has stuck.

I went and read R99's post after R142's post.

How did Nirvana "completely change music" R99? You've made a pretty sweeping and grandiose statement with no definition there. Care to fill us in?

Can anyone do the same for Dylan please? I can't think of one song he made. His music hasn't lasted and it is definitely not listened to or discussed now by anyone under 50. Yes we all know his name but nothing else apart from that no-one can understand him.

R142 oh wow the classism and judgment is strong with this one.

It's too hard for me to make a list of that kind because I go in so many directions but one include Dean Martin and Frank Sinatra on a list of that sort. Steely Dan anything by them.

Best that you don't to be honest R145. You seem to have completely missed the brief.

[quote]Can anyone do the same for Dylan please? I can't think of one song he made.

Someone types young. Very, very young.

Dylan wrote and sang some of the best and influential music of the 1960s and '70s. You can read this, or lots of other stuff on the internet. Start with the discographies, if you like.

Hi r145. I like you. Thanks for posting.

[quote]I think the musicians who end up on this list should have two things in common: They changed the game somehow AND they were insanely popular.

That's good insight, R125. The thing is, so often there are bands that change the game, and go on to influence other bands who make the new sound big and become "insanely popular." Put another way, the most popular bands aren't always the the ones that began the innovation, so much as the innovations culminated in said band.

For instance, punk music + Ramones, The Pixies = Nirvana. Doesn't mean that Nirvana didn't have talent, clearly they did. Doesn't mean they didn't write songs with depth or longevity, clearly they did. But Nirvana didn't "change the game." The Pixies sure as hell did. They did stuff no one else was doing, such as guy yelling with girl singing, quiet verses and loud rocking choruses, singing in Spanish, all kinds of surrealist lyrical things that no one else was doing.

And Kurt has even said "we were trying to rip off the Pixies."

Ramones, they also brought punk out of the darkness, closer to the light of day, writing in major chords and singing like Ray Davies of the Kinks.

Neither of those bands did a tenth of the business that Nirvana would go on to do, but Nirvana wouldn't exist as we know them without those other bands.

Weezer, similar. They stood on the shoulders of giants, taking bits and pieces from here and there, bits from the Cars, a little from the Pixies, a little from the Ramones, a bit from Kiss, this and that from The Beach Boys... Weezer is a chop shop of influences, synthesized into a band that became huge somehow. But did they change the game? No.

Tthe Beatles though- they truly changed the game AND ALSO became insanely popular. They invented new sounds and musical expressions that are still influencing and reverberating today. How many Beatles-level bands are there? Like, they broke the mold and invented new forms of songwriting. Abba maybe? I think Queen could be said to be on the list.

[Which reminds me, we should either be making a list of bands, or of singers. Not really fair to combine bands and singers into one list. ]

R148 Thank you :)

It's funny when people like r135 post a video of Beyonce that supposedly shows what a great singer she is but her performance in the video actually shows her to be a mediocre singer, especially for a supposed professional.

R140, "The Queen is a living icon to everyone under 50." Er, not to me and all my friends. But if she only appeals to specific age groups, then that shows she's not an immortal but is simply "of the moment". Moreover, she will fade when she is over 50 and someone else comes along. People will then be saying "only someone over 50 cares about Beyonce".

Beyonce is an entertainer, not a great singer or musical artist. She's a good entertainer (for those who like that kind of thing), but a vocal legend she will not be.

Datalounge hates women, black people, and anyone under 48.

Of course DL hates Beyonce.

Not believing that Beyonce is not a musical genius but a reasonably competent entertainer is not "hating", r153.

[quote]Single Ladies is the most memorable song of the 20th century.

But Goldman knew it was only 2023 -- and there were 77 more years to go!

[quote] Beyonce is an entertainer, not a great singer or musical artist. She's a good entertainer (for those who like that kind of thing), but a vocal legend she will not be.

Perhaps not but regarding the rest of what you posted you know that simply isn't true. You are just being contrary at this point. Beyonce has already exceeded every objective threshold of lifelong superstardom, she is a cultural icon for women, queers and people of color. If Madonna and MJ will be remembered for decades to come Beyonce certainly will.

R155 😂. Love you.

Her vocal control and the depth is insane in this INTRO. It’s so fkin rich. Who else in r&b is doing it like this.

Who but Bey?

What is a "queer", r156? I notice that Beyonce - who'd never particularly spoken up for gay people during the same-sex marriage years, despite having a lesbian mother-in-law - is now suddenly a big ally, or whatever, of the "queer community". This sounds to me as nothing more than an attempt to give her an "avant-garde social issues" profile in order to give her some kind of "icon" status with an artsy edge.

The problem with Beyonce for me is that we keep having her rammed down our throats are some huge goddess icon figure, when she's simply a competent entertainer.

OMG, r158! A woman who makes millions from singing can "control" her voice! Amazing!

Now listen to this.

R159 More lies. I been following Bey since 2003. She has always spoken for gay rights. What she never did was exploit us. Queen Bey has never been super outspoken about political issues. But she said what was necessary when necessary. Yet you mafuckers support someone like Matt Damon who raised kids using the word faggot, coming from the most upper echelon liberal suburbs in Massachusetts.

You support Donna Summer who said what she said in the 80s. And we all know what she said. And make no mistake about it that but said because she would have sued if it wasn’t true. Rest her soul. The delusion is real with y’all.

In the early years of Beyonce's solo career, the people responsible for marketing her were really trying to present her as some kind of successor to Etta James or Tina Turner. Never in her dreams could she ever reach their level.

r158 No one can deny Beyonce is huge...but. If you look at who writes her songs. It is like a laundry list. The same goes for producers. She and her team have been accused more than once of blatantly ripping off Bob Fosse, Matthew Fulks, Pipilotti Rist, Javon Lane who sued for 7 million because her writing team stole his song, Anne Teresa De Keersmaeker, Lorella Cuccari, Ciara, a host of choreographers for the Formation world tour, ripping them off, Canadian artist Anjulie, to name just a few. The other artists on your list are mostly self created and always credited as originals. Beyonce is a product of other people's work,.

I don’t know how the fuck I forgot Pink Floyd during my initial list. They will forever be remembered for be psychedelic kings. And the music is out of this world literally. It’s like both past and present emerging at once. This might be the greatest song of all time.

OP, I'm sorry to disagree with you, but I've got plenty to say about your list.

Elvis - very handsome and charismatic man who had a very beautiful voice, but he cheapened his brand with dismally bad films and was a complete embarrassment by the 1970s. After he died, he was elevated into legendary status by his business-savvy and opportunistic estate's managers. Still, many of his songs are classics, so we can reluctantly consider him a good addition to this list.

Michael Jackson - massively overrated talent (OK voice, catchy but repetitive songwriting), whose mystique was created by his very talented producers and legions of deranged fans, who grew obsessed with him due to his reclusiveness. Few of his songs are classics, but he did change popular music as the visible face of a wider cultural movement. We can reluctantly consider him a good addition to this list, but only because better artists didn't get as much projection.

The Beatles - typical case of opportunism and being in the right place at the right time. Bad musicians and mediocre singers who released lots of bubblegum pop innovatively produced by the truly talented George Martin, and then did become insufferably pretentious. Still, the DID change popular music and improved as time went by, so I guess that they deserve a mention for that... Still, they were still bad musicians and mediocre singers.

Kurt Cobain - passable songwriter and singer who died at the height of his fame, and for some reason was elevated to legendary status by self-important Gen Xers who wanted to feel culturally relevant by creating their own martyr. His status is completely underserved and he shouldn't be on this list.

Beyoncé - good singer who doesn't deserve to become a legend, because of her mostly awful repertoire. Also, she is only the best of her generation because 95% of female singers since the 2000s are utterly talentless, or have disastrous technique. She shouldn't be included here.

Madonna - show woman of severely limited talent who was a master of self-promotion and surrounded herself with extremely talented people who did all the heavy lifting for her. Many of her songs were huge hits, but few of them are classics, if any. She doesn't deserve to be classed as a legend, because she didn't improve on anything - in fact, she is directly responsible for ushering the age of talentless whoredom in which we live.

Tupac Shakur - oh my God, you can't be serious! He couldn't sing to save his life and, as it happens with all rappers, his music was shit. Also, he was a hypocrite who pretended to be a revolutionary but was very much a part of the status quo, and contributed to normalize trashy thug culture as something liberating and desirable, instead of the result of oppression and social injustice that it is. The answer is NO.

Taylor Swift - WHAT?!?!?!?! Anyone who considers this talentless joke of a tween "singer" a legend, is downright insane. Legends have great voices, whereas this slag can't even sing in tune and her songs are disposable crap of the lowest grade. NO. JUST NEVER, EVER, EVER, EVER.

Prince - he was the very personification of 'The Emperor's New Clothes'. Good voice and good technique, but ridiculously pretentious product of hype whose alleged talents as a multi-instrumentalist and composer translated into most mediocre songs, and some dismally bad heaps os steaming manure - sorry, but anyone capable of vomiting Batdance and Love Song, doesn't deserve o be considered a legend.

Post Malone - OK, you are either completely deaf, or have a flat encephalogram. Only that can explain the fact that you have included this pathetic, wretched creature on a list of legends.

Beyoncé has some of the most critically acclaimed albums ever. Around the world. You old prunes don’t know good music. And you don’t know soul music unless it’s that old style like the great Nat King Cole. You don’t know how to experience rhythmic soul music.

The cunt on r164 said Tupac can’t sing. How can you take someone like that serious. It doesn’t make sense. You are an idiot.

No, you imbecile @R166. he couldn't sing to save his life.

R167 Again it doesn’t make sense. He’s not a singer.

Precisely, sweetie @R168. To become a musical legend you need musical ability, and he didn't have any. Talking in psalmody over someone else's sampled work and pre-programmed beats isn't a form of talent. 😊😘

R169 Idiot. I’m done conversing with you. There are many music legends. Reread the thread posting.

The Mamas and the Papas were only together for 3 years, yet I know California Dreamin, Monday Monday, and they have generations of newer fans. Beyonce will never have that. She's a PR gimmick. She may have 1000 Grammys, geez The Rolling Stones have what, 1 or 2? She just doesn't compare in talent, class or enduring popularity.

[quote] You support Donna Summer who said what she said in the 80s. And we all know what she said. And make no mistake about it that but said because she would have sued if it wasn’t true. Rest her soul. The delusion is real with y’all.

I'm with you on Beyonce but tread carefully regarding Donna Summer. There was no one to sue because it was a scurrilous rumor not specifically attributed to a particular source. Like Richard Gere and the gerbil (ask an eldergay).

[quote] What is a "queer", [R156]?

queer

/kwir/

adjective

denoting or relating to a sexual or gender identity that does not correspond to established ideas of sexuality and gender, especially heterosexual norms.

Your top ten, r164? (I agree with most of what you wrote, btw.)

[quote] Beyonce is a product of other people's work,.

There is nothing new under the sun. Her brilliance is how she amalgamates her influences, collaborations, inspirations and theft to present something that is uniquely hers, and could only be done by her. Others have tried to be Beyonce and failed. She is always several steps ahead.

Her tour will have grossed $500 million by its end. She released no videos in support of her last album and did not spend more than $17 on marketing her soldout shows -- no ads, no commercials, nothing. It is one of the highest grossing tours in history.

Why not the first meaning given in the user-created online dictionary, r172?

strange; odd.

"she had a queer feeling that they were being watched"

So, a grown man with a nappy fetish can identify as "queer" because he has a sexual identity that does not correspond to established ideas of sexuality. Good to know!

Personally, I prefer to define my sexuality in relation to my actual sexuality (i.e. exclusively attracted to my own sex), not to some perception of same-sex attracted people as marginal and on the fringes of society. It's nice that Bey remembers the gay male trans femmes, though, it's so radical of her! She must be a fan of queer transbians like Rachel Levine too!

Back to the music, though.

^^^I don't care how you define your sexuality. I used "queer" to define the huge mass of Beyonce's audience that are not white heteronormative gay males.

"You support Donna Summer..."

Actually, r160, I never mentioned Donna Summer, but I do think she had some great, classic tunes. That doesn't mean I share her opinions. What makes a great musician is not whether one shares his or her opinions or not. I love Chuck Berry's music and believe he is a candidate for rock immortality, even though he was a disgusting shit to women.

Tea cake you’ve got your panties in a wad again, spiraling.

“How can you take someone like that serious”

Oh, dear!

[quote]I used "queer" to define the huge mass of Beyonce's audience that are not white heteronormative gay males.

You mean, straight women, r176. Because they are the huge mass of Beyonce's audience. According to you, then, queer means straight women.

[quote]No one can deny Beyonce is huge

It’s true. Her thighs are GINORMOUS.

R165 I grew up listening to R&B and soul. My first concert was New Edition, I had Prince albums before Purple Rain. When everyone was into rock I was into Evelyn Champagne King, Cherelle, Midnight Star, Starpoint, and even obscure R&B that grew out of BET and the other video channels like Five Star, Klymaxx, and the like. I watched Soul Train when other kids were watching Dance Party USA. Like I said Beyonce is huge but she is a product. Produced, and not just by a single person. A team, a huge team. Her song are written by a small baseball team sized group of writers and producers and all of them have to agree that she gets to add her name to the credits even if she contributed one word (Like Smash into you from Shasha Fierce). Much of her visual work is "heavily influenced" by other work. There are plenty of artists doing what she is doing they just don't get that recognition.

There is no artist in the last 30 years who is as facile at singing AND dancing as Beyonce. She is not the greatest of all time at either but exceptionally good at both, and she has no true peers.

Hmmm… I like Pixies better than Nirvana. Also Single Ladies is not the biggest song of the 21st century. Seven Nation Army, Hey Ya, and Bad Romance are bigger.

Datalounge is infecting my dream life. I had a dream last night where I’m in Brooks Bros. in DC, looking at sapphire blue Shetland crew necks when Bradley Cooper and Beyonce walk up beside me. We chat a little. Apparently we all know each other. Bradley is also interested in the blue sweater. He picks one out and is going to pay for it. I decide I need a size 44. Beyonce tells me I need a size 48.