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English doctors are mad as hell and not going to take it anymore

So in the wonderful NHS that we are constantly told is the best model of healthcare in the world, the attending, resident and intern doctors are all on strike today apart from what they call Christmas Day cover.

Junior doctors (i.e. resident and interns) want a 35% pay rise! Consultants (attending) want more or less the same.

Bad day to get sick in England.

It's amazing that a) doctors can go on strike legally and b) they are really badly paid over there. They could and do earn much more in the Antipodes or in Ireland or Canada.

What say ye DataLoungers

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by Anonymousreply 45December 19, 2023 11:02 PM

[quote] So in the wonderful NHS that we are constantly told is the best model of healthcare in the world

Where are you from people say its one of the best systems in the world? We've been complaining non stop about its decline for 50 years. We just think its better than... Certain countries systems. This decline has been accelerated by a decade of Conservative government cuts and Covid kicking the shit out of the system. Anyway everyone and their mother is complaining about wages not matching inflation and for the amount of work junior doctors are meant to do, and the crap retention rate of British doctors just going overseas for more money while we then proceed to loot Africa and India of medical staff they need yes they certainly do deserve a pay rise.

by Anonymousreply 1September 20, 2023 2:03 PM

[quote]It's amazing that a) doctors can go on strike legally

So how exactly are doctors supposed to achieve higher wages in a nationalised healthcare system if not through a strike? You don't have that problem in the US only because your healthcare system sucks so much – you have successfully pitted fantastically loaded doctors against those who don't earn as much, thereby making any kind of strike action impossible.

by Anonymousreply 2September 20, 2023 2:08 PM

[quote]Dan Veness, 23, started working as a junior doctor this year, but already he can see the huge problems the NHS is facing. Veness is paid about £29,000 and routinely works more than 50 hours a week – are taking their toll.

LOL - "Entry level positions (at Starbucks) start at £20,651 per year while most experienced workers make up to £28,210 per year."

The guy cleaning the hospital toilets makes more than the doctors.

by Anonymousreply 3September 20, 2023 2:09 PM

meanwhile, back in USA. Most of us are one catastrophic illness away from financial ruin, loss of home, paycheck garnishment, loss of life savings, etc. yeah, I'll take 'socialized' medicine for $100, Alex.

by Anonymousreply 4September 20, 2023 2:17 PM

How can a person get his bachelors, go through medical school and a residency and be only 23? No thank you.

by Anonymousreply 5September 20, 2023 2:22 PM

R3 I've got a friend who's just quit nursing to go be a customer assistent at sainsburys because the pay isn't that different and the stress is obviously a lot less. It's frankly a fucked system when that's true.

by Anonymousreply 6September 20, 2023 2:24 PM

[quote]How can a person get his bachelors, go through medical school and a residency and be only 23? No thank you.

Different educational system. A lot of Commonwealth countries keep medical training as basically undergraduate-level. The degree they confer is an MBBS (Latin for Bachelor of Medicine, Bachelor of Surgery). which is one five or six year curriculum as opposed to four and four like we have in the US.

by Anonymousreply 7September 20, 2023 2:33 PM

R5 what R7 said. You need to do really well in sciences in secondary school then complete a 5/6 year purely medical degree at university which includes clinical placements and regular examination. You then go to work as a junior doctor around 23 years old.

by Anonymousreply 8September 20, 2023 2:46 PM

But how can it be safe for both consultants and junior doctors to strike on the same day. Best not get sick today in England sounds crazy.

by Anonymousreply 9September 20, 2023 3:28 PM

R1 says it's the best health service in the world here..though that was 10 years ago so it must have declined really fast.

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by Anonymousreply 10September 20, 2023 3:30 PM

Who's liable if some old dear fluffs it because the ER is understaffed?

Also...they're looking for 35% they must realise they have absolutely 0 prospects of that happening under a Tory government.

by Anonymousreply 11September 20, 2023 3:31 PM

R9 There's still emergency cover, so A&E (our equivalent of ER) will be staffed, but pretty much any routine operations, outpatient appointments, etc will be cancelled.

That said, I did think it might be better to avoid going to the office today, which I know sounds a bit over the top, but I'd rather not put myself at risk on a day where ambulances will be rare as hen's teeth.

(Also I don't see why a junior doctor being 23 is seen as a bad thing? Most doctors start training at age 18 and do a five year medical degree, hence graduating at 23.)

by Anonymousreply 12September 20, 2023 3:31 PM

It's a perfect time to have a nationwide panic over immigration! Let's make sure anyone from India, Pakistan, Bangladesh or the Caribbean knows they'll be hated and spit on if they come to the UK to be a medical professional!

by Anonymousreply 13September 20, 2023 3:49 PM

R13 Brexit has really badly affected the NHS workforce

by Anonymousreply 14September 20, 2023 4:19 PM

I work in the NHS and it's inefficient. badly run and frequently unsafe.

It's not just about money, it's about culture and principles. People who work in the NHS genuinely think they're the best in the world.

As we saw from the stories about the abuse of female surgeons last year there is appalling behaviour frequently covered up.

Whenever the funding model comes up people will say SO YOU'RE ARGUING FOR AN AMERICAN HEALTHCARE SYSTEM THEN when the reality is there are plenty of different systems in Europe and the Commonwealth who do a much better job than the NHS.

And I do find it hilarious that doctors who are wholly opposed to any form of private healthcare are quitting the NHS to go and work in countries where there is a significant private insurance healthcare sector.

by Anonymousreply 15September 20, 2023 4:28 PM

[quote] How can a person get his bachelors, go through medical school and a residency and be only 23?

Accelerated programs. A friend of mine way back in the 1980s married a guy who was an MD at 23. He was a cardiology resident and eventually became a pediatric cardiologist. (Sadly they had a baby who died of a congenital cardiac problem). He entered college at 17 and got into a 6 year accelerated BS/MD program. His wife used to jokingly call him “Boy Wonder.”

by Anonymousreply 16September 20, 2023 4:56 PM

Honestly why would you stay in the NHS if the maximum you could get paid is £150k per year when you could be a millionaire over here!

by Anonymousreply 17September 20, 2023 10:18 PM

They simply have to pay them more. I know budgeting isn't easy, of course.

by Anonymousreply 18September 20, 2023 10:34 PM

R17 umm some people have morals and want to help people without bleeding them dry?

by Anonymousreply 19September 20, 2023 10:38 PM

Ooohh MATRON!

by Anonymousreply 20September 21, 2023 1:25 AM

I’ve been quite ill over the past month, which meant I spent a few nights in hospital here in the UK, and the care I received was pretty good, from Accident & Emergency to the coordination with my GP for aftercare. I’ve had all sorts of tests and medications, and not once have I had to worry about the cost. And now that I am back home, my GP is arranging for me to have follow-up blood tests, eye tests and appointments with specialists, all without one word about how much it costs. I’ve never taken that for granted. - The principle of healthcare free at the point of use is a vital freedom.

I’ve had experience of using the healthcare systems in France, Germany and the UK, and they each have their pros and cons. The German system in particular was incredibly generous and convenient in terms of immediate appointments, choice of doctors and available treatments, but people pay (or paid at that time, 15 years ago) exorbitant insurance payments for the convenience. The UK system is cheaper, but less flexible. You have to take what is available. However, most European systems at least guarantee comprehensive treatment without the risk of bankrupting the patient.

The NHS doctors’ strike is fairly unusual. Any threat of that kind usually ends up in a negotiated settlement. Indeed, earlier this year, the devolved Scottish government reached an agreement to avoid strikes by raising doctors’ pay over the next few years. In England, the situation is made more bitter because the Conservative administration is blamed for underfunding the service over the past 13 years, so agreement is harder to reach.

by Anonymousreply 21September 21, 2023 1:57 AM

R21, despite claims there is no major difference between NHS service provision across Scotland, England and Wales. In some areas there are minor differences but 13 years of the Tories in England, 24 years of Labour in Wales and 16 years of the SNP in Scotland haven't seen huge improvements or major failings, and those who do

The Welsh and Scottish NHS are tiny in comparison with England. Scotland made an overtly political decision to settle - Humza Yousaf is a very unpopular politician who needed a political win - while Wales is gearing up for a strike because it knows it can't afford it.

There was another thread on here about something where I posted about the NHS being free at the point of care and someone replied to say "It's not free, I pay my taxes for it". And that is partly right, but if that poster lost his job or was never able to work then he would still get free healthcare.

by Anonymousreply 22September 21, 2023 7:36 AM

Doesn’t Scotland offer prescription drugs for free whereas in England payment—albeit small—is required?

by Anonymousreply 23September 23, 2023 2:09 PM

Scotland and Wales dispense prescriptions with no cost to the patient and in England it’s £9.65 per script, although 90% of prescriptions are dispensed to people exempt from paying - children, the elderly, pregnant women.

It’s another political decision.

by Anonymousreply 24September 24, 2023 7:22 AM

Junior doctors in Wales going on strike, unwilling to accept pay offer made by Labour government.

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by Anonymousreply 25December 18, 2023 5:32 PM

I went to school with several people who became medical doctors of one form or another and I have known countless others. Just a out without fail they all admit, when pressed, that they went into the medical field primarily because they wanted to become very rich. And they all have.

Only in the USA.

by Anonymousreply 26December 18, 2023 5:48 PM

The English healthcare model is atrocious.

by Anonymousreply 27December 18, 2023 5:52 PM

[quote] Brexit has really badly affected the NHS workforce

It was shit before Brexit, doll.

by Anonymousreply 28December 18, 2023 5:53 PM

And you panicky racists decided to make it worse!

by Anonymousreply 29December 18, 2023 6:11 PM

That £350m a week that the Brexiters promised would be given to the NHS after leaving must have come in handy for times like this…

Oh, that’s right. It was a lie.

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by Anonymousreply 30December 18, 2023 6:19 PM

MEDICARE FOR ALL!!!

by Anonymousreply 31December 18, 2023 7:45 PM

This is the reality of universal healthcare, overseen by the government.

Individual hospitals or regional trusts are unable to set their own pay rates. Doctors are unable to negotiate individual pay rises.

There is a nationwide pay scale that all staff groups sign up to and progress along year by year, regardless of performance.

by Anonymousreply 32December 18, 2023 7:51 PM

[quote] And you panicky racists decided to make it worse!

Wanting to stop importing jihad is not racism.

by Anonymousreply 33December 18, 2023 9:09 PM

Is that what Brexit accomplished?

by Anonymousreply 34December 18, 2023 9:12 PM

It is a great model but eh fucking Tories won't put in the required funding. It's not like you get charged $200 for an aspirin. Like the Repugs, the Tories prefer to give themselves tax cuts.

by Anonymousreply 35December 18, 2023 9:18 PM

We’re going to be seeing more you tube surgery and dental how to videos. Eventually with nothing to loose, people are going to do what they can at home. I bet it’s happening already.

by Anonymousreply 36December 18, 2023 9:29 PM

[quote]It is a great model but eh fucking Tories won't put in the required funding. It's not like you get charged $200 for an aspirin. Like the Repugs, the Tories prefer to give themselves tax cuts.

If it's a great model why didn't other countries adopt it?

by Anonymousreply 37December 18, 2023 9:39 PM

No, r44, but that’s why people voted for it. Politicians who didn’t know how to actually do it are another story. Claiming that anyone who voted for Brexit is a racist is embarrassing and a bleeding heart liberal who continue to ruin everything they touch.

by Anonymousreply 38December 18, 2023 10:37 PM

Claiming that the Brexit campaign wasn't a festival of paranoid immigrant-bashing is self-serving bullshit.

by Anonymousreply 39December 19, 2023 9:30 AM

[quote] No, [R44], but that’s why people voted for it. Politicians who didn’t know how to actually do it are another story. Claiming that anyone who voted for Brexit is a racist is embarrassing and a bleeding heart liberal who continue to ruin everything they touch.

It’s Brexit’s fault that this woman’s husband was able to buy vegetables from Waitrose in a clear plastic bag that were rotting.

When someone pointed out there is no EU rule on use by dates for vegetables the woman responded saying it is because of Brexit that UK supermarkets have to buy inferior vegetables from outside the EU.

Absolutely deranged.

I was as upset as anyone that the UK left the EU (my constituency was 50/50) but we have to get a grip and solve the real problems it has caused and not make up shit for likes on Twitter.

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by Anonymousreply 40December 19, 2023 9:54 AM

35% pay rise. Hahahahahaha not in a million years. And these are supposed to be highly educated people?

by Anonymousreply 41December 19, 2023 11:25 AM

R37 It's a great model but for the last 10 years or so chronically underfunded...deliberately. Tories want to privatize all medical care as in the USA. They want doctors to be major owners of airlines and football teams.

by Anonymousreply 42December 19, 2023 12:28 PM

[quote][R37] It's a great model but for the last 10 years or so chronically underfunded...deliberately. Tories want to privatize all medical care as in the USA. They want doctors to be major owners of airlines and football teams.

The Tories have been in government for 30 of the last 43 years. And yet they haven't managed to "privatise" the NHS.

You're the type of person I wrote about in my post at R15. It's not possible to have public/private working together like European and Commonwealth countries, it's either the NHS or the US system.

by Anonymousreply 43December 19, 2023 12:40 PM

Why would they risk the political blowback of formally privatizing anything? They can do it bit by bit by bit by bit. Awarding sweetheart deals to cronies who provide substandard service. It's win-win. People become used to a public good being shit and cronies make money.

by Anonymousreply 44December 19, 2023 2:09 PM

The Conservatives approach to the NHS is the same as their approach to the BBC. They don’t dare abolish either institution so they seek to attack the basis of their support. They starve both of funding and then complain when the scope of service offered inevitably declines.

by Anonymousreply 45December 19, 2023 11:02 PM
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