Do you ever wonder what it’s like to be hot?

It's actually a devastating burden.

I sometimes wonder too what it would be like to walk along a beach in Speedos and trigger lustful gazes and inviting smiles.

R1- The title of this thread is not

Do You Ever Wonder What It's Look Like To Be A HORSE 🐴?

I was hot for a long while. Slim, fit, nice face and eyes. I attracted guys like flies. Had a lot of fun, always assumed I'd be the most attractive in a room, annoyed when I wasn't, while at the same time feeling ugly and insecure. Now that things have changed I see how nuts I was. Focused on my faults. As I aged and was no longer the center of attention it was sort of a relief. I can't believe how much time I wasted leading a frivolous life.

Sometimes good looks can get in the way of achievement if you don't have the brains, personality, and ambition to develop a career or something that lasts longer than looks. I'm just glad now I have a devoted partner and good life although we're not wealthy or all that exciting anymore.

If I had it do do over I'd pick a challenging career that pays well and care less about how I looked, apart from nice clothes and good grooming.

All the time. I was thisclose to being hot and ruling the world, but unfortunately my genetics got in the way.

My darling love always told me how hot I was. I never really believed him, but it was thrilling to be told. And shown.

You're cute, OP.

One of my friends was so handsome and hot that he literally stopped traffic. I used to go with him to the Beverly Center (yes, super elderly) and sometimes I would just walk behind him so I could see the reactions, male and female. I think he sort of just blocked it out after a while but simple things became complicated because he drew so much attention. He was straight but when we both went to Video West, we walked straight through Boys Town. It was some rough sledding. Guys honking, stopping him, asking him if he was a model, asking him if he wanted to go to a party, all asking for his number. One older guy even got out of his Mercedes (when Mercedes meant something) and asked him if he wanted to go to Hawaii for the weekend. I never saw anything like it. Because I was maybe a 4, no one considered me anything but an annoyance near their God.

R8 what happened to him? Married? Kids? Still attractive?

OP, I'm a 3 and sometimes wonder about the charmed lives of the 8-10s. I suspect really good looks are like super wealth--a trigger of more problems and heartache than joy, especially after 50, when almost all if us hit the infamous Wall. Those of us who could never rely on looks developed inner resources to draw from. I'll take that gratefully.

That said, I wish I were a 6!

I am hot

R11 so what’s it like?

[quote]Do you ever wonder what it’s like to be hot?

Yes, until....

I had a bromance for about 2 years with a friend of mine and am yet to see a photo on DL -or anywhere else- of someone who can compare.

He was completely oblivious to his looks. He was aware that he attracted a lot of attention, and didn't particularly care for it. Above average IQ.

Hell, I'd settle beau-laid as long as I had a rockin' physique and bigger dick.

The funniest people I know are all 4s, 5s, and 6s. I'd have to think about it, but I'm not sure I know anyone who is a 9 who also has a well-developed sense of humor.

Yes, maybe it's confirmation bias.

Does anyone else notice this?

I'm hot and desired by tens of people.

I was hot. Ask me anything but be specific not general.

R18, did you ever have sex with somebody who was way beneath you looks-wise. I mean sober sex.

Obviously, many times. I stopped being motivated by classic "looks" before I got out of college.

Hot people are confident and that usually remains intact once looks begin to fade so there is always some degree of hotness.

Being hot isn’t everything. Being kind, funny, and smart are way more important. And I’ve met kid, funny, smart and hot guys. Quadruple threats. They are confident so they can be kind and funny and being smart and hot are just things they have no control over. And I don’t think they care about being hot.

Ugh. This question again.

R19, what do you mean having sober sex with someone who is beneath you?

Beautiful people & ugly peoples fuck each other all the time, because in the end, it TRULY isn’t about looks. It’s about personalities who click with each other & have chemistry.

Without that, there’s zero attraction.

I just cannot express how many times I’ve gone out with men who are handsome AF, & never wanted to see them again, because they were generally boring or had zero charisma or just weren’t really that interesting or had nothing to say or talk about or were just not too bright.

Being hot lasts MAYBE 10-30 years if you’re genetically blessed & have money.

After that? It’s over.

You’d better be interesting AF when you hit 45 & over, because if not? You’re no longer hot & have very little emotional maturity & diverse, lifelong experiences to draw from.

I didn't think a lot about my looks until I turned eighteen and accepted the fact I was gay. I went out a lot trying to meet people and got a lot of rejection. It was devastating to realize I was a two. And then what happened? My hair started to fall out. I was crushed and it destroyed my confidence in every way so I was never really able to do anything. I had such an incredibly strong sexual drive it practically put me into a state of shock that I had to cut off a very large important part of myself. I had absolutely no interest in bathhouse sex. And if I tried to have a good personality or be funny it always came off as being forced and obnoxious. So yes being hot would have been incredibly important to me. I would a least have had confidence in something in myself. My homelife as a child was miserable so growing up to be unattractive ruined my life. I guess other unattractive people who grew up to be successful were just stronger emotionally than me and weren't plagued by constant depression and anxiety which gets in the way of everything.

R24. Pity, a good amount of hot people do respond positively to fugs when the fugs have game. I wish somehow you could have had confidence.

I am hot! It’s the admirers who got scarce!

Guys tell me I'm sexy, which is different than hot.

I've been complimented on my face thousands of times and I don't like the attention. I had no control over how my face turned out so it wasn't really a compliment based on something I did so they never make me feel good about myself. A lot of gay / bi men were the ones making comments and when I let them know I wasn't interested in sex, many acted like it wasn't worth their time talking to me if it wouldn't lead to a hookup so that made me feel worse about myself. Yes, I've had some interesting reactions / comments when men and women first laid eyes on me and I can look very attractive in the mirror / in photos, but I have never once walked down a street with confidence or a feeling like I was above-average looking in that moment...until a stranger offered me a blowjob. So, OP and others who rarely get complimented, you're not missing anything.

I think I’m a 4 or 5 but I’m Asian so probably less from an American gay perspective. Thankfully I’m slim, decently smart, and make a good income. It would be nice to be more attractive but I can live with what I have.

The other day I was behind this young guy at the Kroger's customer service desk. He was wasn't model-handsome but nice-looking, about 6' 2", well-built, tanned, deep baritone voice. And I got a chance to see how everyone looked at him with lust. They all wanted him- men, women, young, old- and thought they might have a chance if he just looked back at them.

I hesitate to write this as I don’t want to get roasted, but I was always considered very good looking. A midwest 9 or 10…(I am 63 now and still get compliments from straight woman and gay guys) funny thing is, I always thought I was a 1 or a 2. In hindsight I now know have caught a lot of lucky breaks based upon my looks, thank goodness I did not squander that good fortune. Here’s the deal- i’ve known some movie star handsome guys who were flat out ugly on the inside..perhaps the fact I had zero confidence in my good looks made me humble and motivated to be kind to all? When guys would hit on me, even if I was not remotely interested I always, always made an effort to be kind and considerate and not hurt the guys feelings. I just will say that yes I hit a genetic lottery but I think true beauty is really from within.

Sounds like you had it from without and within. Very fortunate. I think I was a pretty decent guy until I realized how ugly I was. The horrible crushing sexual frustration and terrible loneliness made me act with great insecurity hurting people which I will regret till the end of my days. I so wish I could take things back.

Nobody is really physically a 1 or 2. They have an ugly character or ugly energy that makes them that unattractive. One you get into super fug category it often flips into "interesting".

It was 120 degrees in the camp yesterday.

In conversations like this, I am always reminded of Amanda Wingfield talking to her daughter Laura In THE GLASS MENAGERIE..." Why you're not crippled, you just have a little defect—hardly noticeable, even! When people have some slight disadvantage like that, they cultivate other things to make up for it—develop charm—and vivacity—and—charm!"

I've spent last 50 years working on my charm and vivacity...

Charm and vivacity are like a good sense of humor. You either have it or you don't.

I've never been hot. Maybe when younger a 5 or 6 - maybe - because I was dark and Italian and my cynicism and general unhappiness in those days was misinterpreted as a smoldering quality. So I've been told. Cracks me up.

Now? At my age? Maybe a 1 or 2. Ravaged by age and chronic illness. Good thing I have a partner because I'd never make it on the open market these days with this community's intense need for beauty and muscles.

On this open market, the 'beauty within' doesn't mean jack shit if you're deemed unworthy of even speaking to.

I'd trade a month of being ignored for a month of effortless and constant positive reinforcement. Just to experience it.

Everyone loves me in the steam room.

Right there with you, OP.

Pretty is as pretty does.

We can just all accept that, yes, smarts and personality and charm are important and without them you won't get far. Although that is also like saying, "The best things in life are free" to console people who don't have money. But that is not what the OP really wants to know. He wants to know what it is like to experience life being physically attractive - how the world receives you before they even know about your character.

I am an attractive guy, but my husband has always been physically more appealing to a larger audience of people because of his classic good looks. One thing I have noticed attractive people get more chances, they get the benefit of the doubt, people want to be around them. All things being equal, they will get the opportunities over someone less attractive. People just want to be in your orbit, talk to you, help you, smile at you, got the extra mile and make things happen for you that they wouldn't usually do. Can I get an upgrade? Well let me see what we can do... kind of thing.

And I am talking face here, not body. Because there are a lot of busted in the face looking people walking around with a hot bodies. Actually having an attractive face kinda of means you don't have to kill yourself at the gym because you will get the same amount of attention if you're ripped or just in shape. And I always say that beautiful people WITH ripped bodies (unless you are making money off of your looks) are the most insecure people you'll meet - because you really don't have to work that hard to get attention.

Looks are a blessing, just like intelligence, a great singing voice, wealth. It is a great advantage in life if you know it's worth and limitations. But in general it makes life easier.

^ and as r31 says, real looks, if you take care of yourself within reason, never really fade. Of course you aren't the 25 year old that you were stopping traffic or turning heads, but people still notice you. My husband now is 57 and still gets attention, and help, and great customer service. Guys in their 20s into daddies put themselves in his line of view on the regular. People just like him. And oddly enough older women, married women REALLY like him now. They are the one's doing most of the fawning at this point.

R37 I was a beautiful and slender 5 and 6 year old. Then I had many increasingly awkward years, culminating in my fattest year in 5th grade. 5th grade was also the time when my family moved to a new town and I started at a new school.

My class had an assignment to put a younger photo of ourselves on the class bulletin board. The person who matched the most classmates to their younger photos would win something. I was strategic about it and sorted through many photos. I wanted to demonstrate “I had been hot once” and, subtly, “therefore I could be hot again.”

I found a striking photo of 5 year old me. I was standing triumphantly in front of our Christmas tree, arms akimbo, smiling like the Mona Lisa, and wearing a bathrobe like a mini-Hefner.

The number of classmates who matched my photo up to the three or four hottest boys in the class was astounding. Boys who had blond hair (I had brown) and boys who were fair skinned and of Irish or Norwegian or German background (I am of Italian and Polish background). When the unveiling occurred, some of my classmates outright did not believe me. It’s as if I had humiliated them by demonstrating they had been attracted to me by proxy (my photo) which they believed was of one of their current crushes.

It was an interesting social experiment, far more interesting than whatever the teacher was attempting to accomplish.

I became better looking by 11th grade but it was smoke and mirrors (taller, more athletic build, contacts lenses, straight teeth, cleared-up skin) and reached my hotness peak between 36 and 45 (muscular body and a lot of confidence). I was probably a 6/7 at my best. Occasionally a definite 7 if the conditions were just right. I was never conventionally good looking but I was intelligent, well read, and witty. I whored around a lot during those peak hotness years, then got that out of my system and settled down.

Now I’m in my mid 50s, fatter, and happier than I have ever been. When I met my husband he was a total 8/9. Just beautiful—and very sincere. But he had had a lifetime of being “oohed” and “aahed” at and he was insecure about his lack of post-high school education, played his looks down, and completely realized how empty the reaction to his physical beauty had been. Ironically, he never would have been attracted to me had I not looked like I looked when I was 45. Nor would I have been attracted to him had he not looked like he looked when he was 30.

Now all I want to do is stay healthy and live as long as I can.

I'm single, ugly, alone, and just waiting to die at this point.

And I should have also mentioned that it is not the case only with young people - and in our case, generally gay men - that being attractive makes a difference.

My partner and I are in our 60s. As he has aged, my partner has gotten better and better looking. I have, as I mentioned, deteriorated, for lack of a better term.

When we are introduced to people, all their attention and conversation is directed at my partner. All of it. It's so obvious that my partner is often uncomfortable. I'm not threatened by the attention to him. But I will admit that as often as it is amusing - especially with gay men - it sometimes can still be a bit soul crushing.

I do, a hell of a lot. I've never, ever been hot. Even now in my early 50s I still wish I was (/had been).

I was always teased about how I looked at school, mainly because of huge sticky-out ears, which were the bane of my life.

I've never felt comfortable in my own body, I've always been incredibly self conscious about it. I've got horribly under-developed legs and arms (no one has ever been able to explain why, I've asked doctors but I've just been dismissed). I was incredibly underweight until I was 21 or so. Then I was diagnosed with diabetes and I just ballooned. Back in the days when you had a set amount of insulin every day so I was eating every two hours. I never had a good weight stage, I went from stick thin, with a pot belly, to overweight with a pot belly. Weight is now much more under control, but still have the belly. Also now wear an insulin pump which makes me even more self conscious of my body.

Despite being made to wear braces for years, right up until I went to university aged 18, my teeth are horribly uneven, I never show them in photos when I smile. I hate photos of myself, seeing myself on video is even worse.

My looks are probably why I'm a "nice guy" - I try and be kind and compassionate in all aspects of life.

I was never the most confident person, but first going on the gay scene destroyed whatever tiny sense self confidence I had.

It's exhausting. Strangers hitting on you and grabbing your ass at gay bars gets old real fast.

R19 to answer that question, no one experiences themselves the way the world experiences them. No one sees themselves the way the world does. You never know exactly what turns someone on that you think is hot and way out of your league. You and your awkward ways could remind them of a kid they had a crush on in middle school. The way you laugh could remind them of a best friend they had. Human sexuality is all over the place which means hot people aren't just attracted to hot people. And usually when you see a hot couple in public it's usually more for "optics" and other people's approval. One of them probably totally gets off on being fisted by 50 year old fat truckers in the back of the cab.

for what it's worth, I find men in 'amateur' or homemade porn far and away hotter than classically handsome professionals in professional porn.

My buddy was a 10. It was astonishing watching the reactions of people as he walked into a bar. I had never seen anything like that before. He wasn’t really a very sexual person and found the attention annoying. I think it actually turned him off to be so fussed over. It was exhausting to him. Such a waste of possibilities looking at it from my perspective but I can understand given his personality how it could get to be a burden.

I went to a Pride weekend with a hot friend a few years ago. The whole first night we went out I had men coming up to me saying "Wow - you're friend is so hot! You're not together are you?" or variations on that. Honestly, it was dozens and dozens of times.

to all of you, how would you feel if you thought that You were the one that chose how you would look when you were born and it wasn't just a chance thing?

It's proven in the homosexsicle science literature that gays can "will" themselves up 1-3 levels in attractiveness. The math is complicated and the impact depends on context. These are statistical averages, never guarantees for any one gay in every circumstance.

The 3-step improvement is rare and cannot apply to anyone who starts at 6 or above. Thus 5s can in exceptionally rare circumstances will themselves to an 8 but it will be temporary and highly age and context dependent.

The average "will for beauty" impact success rate is only 1.5. Don't tell the people who have convinced themselves they have achieved 2 or 3 step movements. When push comes to shove (so to speak) most gays can quickly see through the smoke and mirrors in their crowd, but if they like the bootstrappers, they play along. More sex and ego points for everyone.

6's cannot become 9s. With great skill, temporary 8s.

8 can become 9s, but not 10s.

9s cannot move up.

10s are made by nature, not nurture or will to beauty.

Hot like LA hot, or like Iowa hot? There’s at least a 50 pound difference.

I dunno. Iowa hot is pretty damn hot. Have you seen those corn-fed Iowa college wrestlers and gymnasts? I mean, DAMN.

Charm and vivacity? Oh baby, I've got 'em in spades.

Fat lot of good.

In my life I've been both hot and not hot. Not much of a difference, since I have such a crummy personality.

I worked and socialized with a young woman who was strikingly beautiful. She was one of the most insecure people I’ve ever known. She didn’t enjoy her beauty at all.

It was fun, yet too much attention was really annoying. That was the 80s and 90s in NYC. Now I'm happy to be invisible. Less work and nothing left to prove.

I have had moments. It was really fun. But you also see and learn about a lot of shitty people- there are truly people who are like "stop inviting him, he can't hang with us, he isn't one of us" really- truly. And yes, when those people said shit like that I dropped them forever. Had 2 or 3 groups of friends say stuff like that. You get invited to stuff out of the blue from people you barely know "we are going in to rent this beach house and it seems like you would be fun to join" or invited to dinner parties "you seem like someone I should be friends with" people really say this shit. And then there are the really gross people (meaning slimy) hitting on you. But it is really nice to have that level of confidence. (like I said, I had moments, little windows)

I do wonder.

I had horrible rosacea when I was in my 20s and 30s; I that and the threat of AIDS (IYKYK) prevented me from fully enjoying my prime

Don't hate me for this but it wasn't until I started having experiences that I found out I had a larger than average sized dick. I'd go to 'legit' massage therapists who had all over their ads "do not ask for sex; I'm am not an escort' and they'd go to town on me. I finally asked why does this happen? He said, 'dude, you're huge.'

I'm sure if I didn't have a big dick, I'd want one; but I'm not handsome or masculine. I have no 'game' - I'd prefer to lay my head on a guy's chest and have his arm around me than have a huge dick cutting off my airwaves; the heart wants what the heart wants.

My advice is to maximize your assets. Eat right. Cut out alcohol. Work out. Build muscle. Be the best you you can be. I no longer have rosacea; I've arrived on the docks of eldergay island but I can still try to be the best me I can be. Cliche but true.

^ airwaves = breathing passage

You get what I meant.

Yeah, having a small dick is literally terrible. I hate it. Especially since I"m basically a top. Nobody wants a small, thin dicked top. I've wished all my life for a bigger dick. I know I'd be happier with one.

And now I'm out of shape late 50s and I haven't had sex in almost ten years (more than that if you don't count the time I paid for it), and I know I'll never have sex again, and it's really depressing. It's not just the sex... it's no touching. No hugs, no kissing (god I love kissing and making out), no affection at all. What even is the point of living. I don't know.

R63, massage and erotic massage, I used to think were horrible, sad substitutes for what I thought I should be having and what every therapist told me I deserve.

But they provided a safe alternative in a horrible time of AIDS. (which is still around). I really missed having that option during COVID.

There's nothing wrong with having your needs met in a safe way. I've paid for some very expensive hugs; but some were worth twice the price.

Hell, there are MARRIED pepole and people in relationships who get zero affection let alone sex.

Yes and I should no longer care. I'm 61. But man, I have often wondered what it's like to wake up in a body that's 6'1", 190 lbs of lean muscle with a hairy chest and legs... that guy who plays sports well, gets a tan in season (none of this burning and getting red) and has solid 7"-8" cut cock.

Just a few days in that body, and spend the time in P'town during the summer.

Always, always wonder what it must feel like to walk down the street and get checked out, maybe ogled a bit.

I was hot when I was in my 20s and I had no idea what to do with it, I was closeted and extremely shy. Now I look back and hate how much time I wasted, and think about how much whoring around I missed out on. Also I was naturally skinny but lazy, and I wish I'd worked out at least a little bit so I could've had that moment where I was all I could have been hotness-wise. I work out now (I am in my 40s) but it's just a losing battle against the chunk now

R67, it's not. I'm fucking 61 and am in better shape than I've been in in years after making a few simple changes

1) no more booze outside of the occasional drink; maybe in the last two months; no more cheap win with every meal.

2) Yoga; stretching is so important

3) strength and conditioning classes - find a place that will make a slight adjustment if you can't keep up with the 25 year old underwear models.

Granted, I have all my hair and was carded for reals at 39. so I have some genes on my side.

R9, his family was well off but not exactly rich. He was going to school to become a doctor and even a few of his professors said he should pursue modeling or acting while he still young enough. He married, became a surgeon and has three great kids, two of whom graduated from Stanford. His wife is pretty, not in his class looks wise, but they look good together. There are some guys who are handsome but not hot and quite a few who are hot but not handsome. He was both. One of my other friends wrote a letter asking me about him and it was the sickest thing I ever saw. He said something like "his skin looks like the ripest peach ready to explode and he has the bluest blue eyes on the whitest whites I've ever seen." And one thing that got him into trouble was that he always looked people straight in the eyes when speaking to them, never averting his gaze. When he finished the conversation, he'd flash a smile and that was it for the other person. I thought it was an affectation but after meeting his family, I saw that they all did it and felt it was good manners. It was not simply looks but the whole package. He never dressed particularly well, or even groomed himself that well. His hair was often a mess. But it wore really well on him. Made him approachable. I think we'd laugh about those early days but he still has it. I never did but I do miss seeing him cause accidents when he was younger. So in answer to the question, even though I experienced it second hand, yes I always wondered and always wished I were because of the insane amount of power it has over people.

for me good looks and charm are a drug; a guy calls me buddy and I'm TOAST. it's like something comes over me. it soothes all that childhood pain.

I was taking a workout class and this one well-intentioned guy -- he has BEAST as one of his pronouns -- says GOOD JOB BUDDY!

I started taking the earlier class and one day he shows up for the next class a little early and I hear GOOD JOB BUDDY.

He had no idea the impact he had on me. He wasn't even model good looking but oh so masculine.

Confidence, a sense of humor, and kindness are hot. Those are attributes you CAN work on, if objective physical beauty is not possible.

R63 you could have had more sex when your options dwindled by becoming a bottom in your 30s. But NOOOOOOOOOO! You stuck to your guns and got bupkis. Nobody wants anything to do with an out of shape bottom in his 50s, but you were probably quite fuckable at 30.

I don’t feel so alone after reading these replies. I am married to a guy who is more attractive than me and has way more confidence. I should feel lucky but our sex life is pretty much non existent. I’m pretty much invisible when we are out with other people because I’m plain as fuck and deeply introverted.

r73, yet out of all the available guys - he picked you. and btw- sex life dwindles with many, many long term couples.

People in my life have long told me about the reaction I generate from others, but it takes something over-the-top to get my attention.

I just want a hot guy to let me play with his cock for an evening. Is that so much to ask?

Pretty privilege is like white privilege. You can have it but not be aware of it unless you are actively trying to use it.

Like somebody up-thread posted, I was objectively hot but never realized it. Or maybe I suppressed it.

I have a few photo albums that guests sometimes page through and their reactions are always the same – who is this guy?! (Me.) Or, OMG, you were so hot! Even I recognize now that I was really good looking then.

At the time, however, I had deep self-esteem issues. I grew up poor in a rural community. I was not stereotypically good looking for the era and location. Back then, scrawny and hairy was the ideal. I was muscular with little body hair. A high school classmate and I were both 6'6", but I was about 220 lbs and he was 160 lbs soaking wet. But he was idealized and I was not. I went off to college and the "hot" guys were all preppies with expensive clothing, shoes, etc. I did not have these things. By grad school, I started to come into my own and dressed better and developed more elaborate social skills and, well, manners. I settled into my first long term relationship with a handsome guy who continuously told me how to improve my image, inferring that I was not good enough as I was. Eventually we split up. And for seven year after, I was at my hottest in my own eyes. But I was in my mid-30s in Los Angeles and I was an eldergay by community standards. At least in my mind.

So here I am twenty years on. I don't regret the way I have lived my life, but sometimes I get angry at myself for the incredibly self-destructive way my mindset was then.

"Hot" is an illusion, even for people who are genuinely, objectively hot.

How much do you weigh now, R78?

245 now. Not fat ... but not fit.

You guys claiming you’re ugly (and you guys claiming you’re hot) are bumming me out. NOBODY has a very good idea of how hot they are and I swear to god, some legitimately hot guys think they are ugly as sin and some seriously average guys way overestimate their looks. I promise you. If you think you aren’t hot, you are probably way hotter than you think you are.

I grew up before digital cameras and I never asked anyone to take pictures of me with my own camera, so other than school photos, the only photos I ever saw of myself were ones taken during school picture day.

When my mother passed, I went through all of the photos she had collected over the years and suddenly I had so many pictures of me that I had never seen. Same thing with the advent of social media. Friends post pics that I’m in from high school and college that I don’t remember being taken and have never seen. And every single time, I find myself staring at them and sometimes I’ll think “this is a mistake. That’s not me” because I absolutely do not recognize myself in old photos. I can stare at the picture and just absolutely not see myself in it at all. No resemblance to what I’ve always seen in the mirror.

I’m going to out myself with a 25 year old photo. I remember this day vividly. I had just finished a grad program and this was lunch to celebrate and that’s my grandmother. When I look at it? No clue who that guy is. None. He’s wearing my clothes and standing next to my grandma, but I do not recognize him at all.

You’re not a 2. There is no such thing. One person’s 2 is a 10 to me.

I'd'a hit that.

I've always used humor to make up for my shortcomings in the looks department.

Because of terrible self-esteem, I grew up having no sense that I was especially attractive. I can date that change specifically to when, as a 20-year old intern in the US Senate, I suddenly noticed the attention I was getting as I walked through the Senate cafeteria.

I remember this one guy who thought he was "one of the beautiful ones". He so wasn't. But even I have to admit his CONFIDENCE in that was definitely a kind of attractive.

I never had any confidence. Society and my peers made SURE of that, reinforcing the fact that I was ugly, unworthy, ... and that got so internalized that even when I was around 30 and had worked out for a couple of years, and was at my best (strangers in other cities actually hit on me, just not my own, I guess, because I was "known") and I actually had a sex life... it wasn't enough to break my inner feelings of worthlessness and unworthiness. Then my exercise (biking) cause impotence problems and there went whatever little confidence I had built up. Here I was at my best, and I couldn't perform, and was ashamed to be around others because I just couldn't get it up. For like a YEAR.

It doesn't help when, as a gay man, you're just not your own type. You look in the mirror and you just can't be attracted to what you see. I think guys who ARE their own type get a huge boost of confidence because they look in the mirror and like what they see. All I see is that i wish I were totally different.

Do you order things willy-nilly at ihop, OP? I feel like you do.

[quote] Do you order things willy-nilly at ihop, OP? I feel like you do.

Is that supposed to be about me?

Ugh.

Move to Denton, TX; you will be hot,...very, very hot.

I’m responding to some of the posts here with a great big HUH?!

Good looks and “hotness”hold an immense cachet in society. Rightly or wrongly, it always has and it always will. Anyone who claims otherwise is either deluded or not being truthful. And the gay community has hardly taken the high road on this issue.

Entire industries, like Hollywood, are built on it. There are people who are multi-millionaires for very little reason other than that they won the genetic lottery. We know the names of Supermodels. The science behind the allure of conventional attractiveness is well-documented.

If all that’s being said is that some attractive people don’t know how attractive they are, or that personality, charm, confidence and intelligence are important etc, then fine. But to underestimate the importance of looks is a fool’s game.

This world where perfect 10s can’t wait to jump into bed with 2s and 3s who exude enough “confidence”…seems made up in somebody’s head.. That’s no world I’ve ever inhabited. Gay or straight. Not without the exchange of money at any rate.

R81 - you were VERY good-looking.

R82, were you talking about me at r81? That’s flattering but if you ever meet that guy lemme know because I’ve never seen him. And I definitely don’t look like that now. I’m a little heavier (like 20 lbs), a little more muscular and a whole lot hairier and grayer.

R91, that’s very kind of you, but I never thought I was and I still don’t think any photos of me from back then look like what I remembered. I have a very good memory for names and faces. Just not mine. I think we are all hardwired to see something different when we look at ourselves. In extreme cases it’s body dysmorphia where anorectics see themselves as overweight and bodybuilders see scrawny thin guys in the mirror. We probably all have some minor form of it and maybe there are some people who are particularly perceptive and see themselves exactly as they are. But I think they must be rare.

R90, I’m far from what you’d call a 10, but I have slept with more than one guy that I didn’t initially find attractive. Once I get to know someone and I find out they’re smart, funny, and kind my brain completely starts seeing them differently. Suddenly they aren’t unattractive. And if we start dating, then they become even more attractive and all I can think is how handsome some guy I wasn’t initially attracted to suddenly is. And if I fall in love, which I have, then that guy I didn’t think was attractive is suddenly one the hottest guys I’ve ever seen. And people have said cruel things to me like “what do you see in him? You guys are a very odd looking couple” and I absolutely hate that. It shocks me that someone would say something like that to anyone. First, it’s not their business, then b) who I find attractive is personal, and finally, I’m not very good at ordering lists consistently. I usually will say in a terse tone “compassion” or even “everything.”

But I have been burned. Guys that I thought were nice and good people actually weren’t and if we have an ugly breakup (which really has only happened once) suddenly I feel like I’ve been pulled out of the Matrix and I start thinking “what was it about that guy that made me think he was so good looking because I don’t think he really is?” Fortunately I like all my exes except one man in particular and I still think they’re hot, even if didn’t at first.

I think there are probably a lot more 10s jumping into bed with 2s and 3s without a financial exchange than most people think there are.

And I still think it’s so subjective that there really are no 10s or 2s.

And the guys who think they aren’t hot. You’re hot to someone. A lot of someones and even some so-called 10s, so cut yourself some slack please. You’re already hotter than you think, you just don’t see it.

I worked with a handful of super hot guys when I worked in a department store in NYC. A lot of male models worked in the fragrance department. One I see all the time on Just For Men boxes, the other was a 2-Xist model. Oh and there was another who was hot to death, sexy and nice on top of it. They were all really nice.

But the one thing I realized is hot people are enjoyed by the world. They don’t enjoy themselves like we enjoy looking at them. Their beauty is our gift, not theirs.

Fernando was the 2-Xist model.

Maiko was the Just For Men

Whenever Richard Cory went down town, We people on the pavement looked at him: He was a gentleman from sole to crown, Clean favored, and imperially slim.

And he was always quietly arrayed, And he was always human when he talked; But still he fluttered pulses when he said, "Good-morning," and he glittered when he walked.

And he was rich—yes, richer than a king— And admirably schooled in every grace: In fine, we thought that he was everything To make us wish that we were in his place.

So on we worked, and waited for the light, And went without the meat, and cursed the bread; And Richard Cory, one calm summer night, Went home and put a bullet through his head.

R93 You sound like a lovely human, and I commend you on your ability to look beyond the surface, but you are not typical. Especially in the gay community. I just think I’m being a realist based on my life experience. Gay men, to a large extent, worship beauty.

Some of us “plain-janes” have spent a lifetime developing our personalities, brains, style, sense-of-humour and compassion. I can count on one hand the times any of that has gotten me laid. Friendships yes. Sex? Not so much! And despite being told how funny I am multiple times, I can honestly say I have never laughed my way into anyone’s bed. Now this is very possibly a self-esteem issue on my part. I can concede that.

I strongly disagree that there are no 2s or 10s. Yes there is someone out there for everyone, and taste is a subjective thing, but that’s different than recognizing that society has rather rigid beauty standards.

I posted Richard Cory because I echo the many posters who didn't see or comprehend their own attractiveness. How we see ourselves is much more important in terms of self-esteem and self-confidence than any objective measure of looks (which is simply a reflection of what the dominant culture where we happened to grow up finds attractive). Very often we judge ourselves in comparison to another person or another type we feel is ideal, not even realizing that we might be someone else's exact cup of tea.

I always thought of myself as rather plain. I usually wore glasses, I was very thin through my late twenties and after that , had a long, somewhat upturned nose. Who could find that attractive? My mom told me I was handsome, but isn't saying that part of the job of being a mom? On the other hand, I did have nice eyes, and regular features, and plenty of brown hair with auburn highlights, and once I reached my 20s, found that lots of men tolerated my plain looks just fine. (In fact, lots and lots and lots of men). When I was the advanced age of 23 or so, I met a very handsome boy (this was in NYC). He and I messed around and then stuck around for a long heart to heart for whatever reason. I think I told him that I was not handsome, and he said, "no, you're not. And neither am I. But we're both cute, and lots of guys will approach us or let us approach them because they'll find us attractive without being intimidated by our looks". (I thought that was odd, because I found him very handsome). In retrospect, I rarely tried for the most model-handsome man in the room myself, but wouldn't hesitate to try my luck with someone whose body or general demeanor caught my attention. In fact, sometimes the people I went with were not at all conventionally good-looking, but they had some aspect or other that captured me for the moment.

Like many of the people here, I now see photos of myself in my 20s, 30s, and even 40s, and think, "by golly, you weren't nearly the troll you thought you were ". Unlike some who've posted here, I didn't let my perceived lack of looks impede my sex life. I guess what I'm saying is that probably many of the posters here who are convinced that they were somehow, objectively, a 2 or 3, might instead have fallen quite solidly in the great middle (4, 5, 6) where the vast vast majority of us fit - because looks are really a bell curve with just a tiny fraction of god-like attractive and uncomfortably unattractive on either end.

[quote]once I reached my 20s, found that lots of men tolerated my plain looks just fine. (In fact, lots and lots and lots of men). When I was the advanced age of 23 or so, I met a very handsome boy (this was in NYC). He and I messed around and then stuck around for a long heart to heart for whatever reason. I think I told him that I was not handsome, and he said, "no, you're not. And neither am I. But we're both cute, and lots of guys will approach us or let us approach them because they'll find us attractive without being intimidated by our looks". (I thought that was odd, because I found him very handsome).

Oh please, you were both attractive. Stop kidding yourselves.

r81, what happened to cause your rosacea to go away after years of having it?

No offense but kindly FUCK OFF with the fake humility.

Gays are the shallowest. They will shun anyone who doesn't fall into their designated levels of hotness. Thank God stoning is no longer legal. You would NOT trade good looks for a personality unless a) You were never good-looking in the first place or b) You used to be able to get into Studio 54 and fit into a pair of bell bottoms.

I don't doubt your hearts are in the right place, but let's cut the bullshit. OP's life would be SO MUCH better if he were considered hot. Period.

Being hot seems to follow people even when they’re looks are long diminished. There’s a cachet or currency for ‘used to be hot’. I have a friend like this who was hot from his 20-40s, but now is a blend into the background 60+ due to genetics kicking in and years of partying. He’s always posting photos from his heyday on IG and FB and gets gushing responses. He still has the swagger and energy from being hot, so that’s an appeal for sure despite the physical decline.

I have been a 4 most of my life. A 5 for two months when I turned 32. But my dog is a 10.

R81, oh, yes. You were smoking hot! A Matt Dillon (in his prime!) quality, but well dressed. If you look anything remotely like that now, you're still wonderful to behold. (Mary!) And if not, who cares. Based on your post, you seem like a smart, good person.

In short, you won!

Hmmm, you don’t sound very intelligent OP.

I now realise that R100 should actually have been addressed to R61. Apologies to R81.

In the mid to late 1990’s I was the Cat’s Pajamas.

One night in particular in October 1995 at a bar called the Works in Manhattan I was being cruised simultaneously by someone on my right and left . When the person on my left walked away someone took his place and would start cruising me. Guys would lean into me and lean forward to try to catch my glance.

A lot of the comments reminds me of something from Married with Children. Kelly is talking to Jefferson about how attractive people are discriminated against. She says that they should have their own dedicated parking spaces with a big smiley face because looking at them makes people happy.

I've had enough people tell me to my face that I'm unattractive (in many different ways, both "trying to be kind" and "absolutely NOT trying to be kind") that I don't even go out and never socialize anymore.

Also, I want to note that the only time in my life a hot guy ever paid attention to me and even hit on me/flirted with me, was when he mistakenly thought I was someone who could further his career (it was an understandable mistake based on the situation). But the moment he figured out I could do nothing for him, he went from gushing and fawning to mean, cruel, and rude. So basically if a hot guy ever were to pay attention to me in any way ever again, I wouldn't trust it to be genuine for a second.

[quote]I've had enough people tell me to my face that I'm unattractive (in many different ways, both "trying to be kind" and "absolutely NOT trying to be kind") that I don't even go out and never socialize anymore.

I think you’ve met a lot of folks that deserve a swift punch in the face! I don’t like hearing that you don’t go out or socialize. It sounds like you were unfortunately in the wrong place at the wrong time, but I kinda wish I knew you. I’d ask if you wanted to get dinner or grab a drink. Who the fuck would go round saying anything like that to anyone??

Do choo wish your girlfriend was HOT like me?

R109 and R110

And it doesn't have to be obvious - as in telling you to. your face...

I live in a town that has a "town official photographer' because we host a lot of events. I don't like my picture taken - because I don't photograph well and I'm not attractive to begin with - so I steer clear of the cameras lens. He has also asked me to step out of view when setting up a shot when I';m unaware that he's about to take a picture. That's bad enough, but no big deal since I don't like my photo taken anyway.

BUT, when I have accidentally ended up in a photo he takes, he edits - photoshops - me out of the pictures. Seriously.

People couldn't believe he would be such an asshole, until the people in the photos realized or remembered that I had been there in the "scene."

It's petty of me but I'll mention it anyway - the photographer is no prize himself.

.

He's keeping you out of the photos to be kind and respect your wish not to be in photos.

R113

That could possibly be true if he KNEW I'd rather not be in photos. It's never been discussed. He doesn't know.

Most interesting thread in months.

Well I knew a lot of DLers were shrinking violets but I am surprised how many here report these sad life-long issues of crippling self esteem about looks. I'm one of the former hotties, above. And since I enjoyed relations with all levels of attractiveness I suppose that means I met average or fug guys who still put it out there and got sex and love. I have always seen average and fug guys in couples as well. I assumed most people get over this, and of course it is true, and this is just one thread that invites the guys who could not overcome it. It's a pity and kind of breaks my heart.

You can't be Quasimodo or John Merrick. So I can't imagine a photographer hired to shoot community events, not fashion layouts, telling a fug citizen to step out of the frame before shooting a picture. Isn't it possible someone in town has told him you are very camera shy?

I wanted to add a couple of anecdotes about my super hot friend. Whenever we'd go to a restaurant, I'd see people, men and women walking in my direction then walk back. They wanted to see his face. Someone had seen him and cued everyone else in to the gorgeous guy sitting with the toad in booth 11. I said he often didn't comb his hair well and when we were at the Hard Rock Cafe in the Beverly Center, he once had a waitress run her fingers through his hair and said he needed someone to blow his hair. We were at another restaurant and he ordered a pasta salad. The gay waiter rubbed his stomach and said oh, that's how you keep your body. As I said earlier, it must have been exhausting. And I always thought people thought we were a couple and since I was with him, they not only had a chance, they could take him from me. And that's part of the ego problems of hanging with someone who is so far above you, looks wise. If anything, it accentuates your own insecurities.

No because I’m currently on a 1 month round of prednisone. I sweat my ass off.

I was always considered handsome by people, but not enough to stop stop traffic. My biggest strengths were my brain and my personality, so being better looking than average just got my foot in many doors, but you have to have something to back that up or you don’t go far.

In terms of sex, less attractive guys are usually better. Most 8/9/10s just want to lie there and don’t feel the need to put in any work.

If you're hot you have to be completely retarded to fail in life, I'd do anything I'd even commit war crimes if it made me good looking. I'd be a millionaire in no time.

R121, not in real life. If you woke up hot, you’d know the benefits and take advantage of them, but hot people have always been that way. They think life is just easy so don’t understand that you have to capitalize and save for when it’s no longer the case.

The real beneficiary of the Expo line are developers.

R115- I agree with you ( I hope you're not being sarcastic). This is my favorite type of thread. I like threads like this that talk about wishing you were hot or being rejected all the time on grindr or in a bar/bathhouse because I'm single and these are issues which are frequently on my mind.

Wrong thread, sorry!^^^^

I'm not hot, but I think I know what it's like. It's obvious that good-looking people get treated well for no reason - except that they're hot.

Age is the great equalizer, though. Yes, you can carry some of the confidence that you had (from being hot) into your older age, but it's not the same as being confident AND hot.

I'm jacked and i have a big cock but I'm old. I still get attention tho. It's weird.

I know....or knew at least. The problem was I was always hot to all men except the ones I thought were hot which rendered my hotness useless.

R128, yeah, I feel that. In my entire life, with very very few exceptions, the only guys who ever expressed interest in me were of the "totally not my type and I'm not attracted to you in the least" guys.

Another thing that sucked? The kind of guy who does it for me physically is also very typically the kind of guy with a personality, intellect, or emotional state that I can't stand to be around.

I have issues beyond just low self-esteem.

Do you ever wonder what it’s like to be hoot?

Do you ever wonder what it’s like to be hoot man?

Do you ever wonder what it’s like to be haute?

[quote]It's petty of me but I'll mention it anyway

Whoa!! That is NOT petty at all. Getting cropped and edited out of photos or asked to step is fucking CRUEL. Now I want to punch that photographer in particular. I’m very sorry anyone…ANYONE has ever treated you or anyone else this way ever.

Jesus Christ. Unless you’re taking care of a family member or have some unbreakable tie to the city, I’d move. Move to a big city and enjoy life. You’ll blend in and won’t stand out, but you’re killing me with how awful people have been to you. You don’t deserve that. Nobody deserves that!

R8, you never responded to R9's request for an update. How many years ago are we talking? Whatever became of him ... & his looks. I've received my share of positive reactions - even last fall, at the ripe old age of 65, as I exited my car in a store parking lot, I heard the voice of a young-sounding woman calling out after me, "Damn, you're fine" - but never the kind of attention your friend merited.

I don't think I was - or currently am - Quasimodo, but I've never had the trendy in look in the gay community at any time. I was also for most of my time in the clubs what we'd call "fit fat" here. Not huge by any means but I was never going to fit into Z Cavaricchis.

Eventually I found men that appreciated me FOR that instead of rejecting me BECAUSE of that, but that took a while. It pretty much made my twenties a living hell. Lots of nights of going home alone and figuring I'd never meet anyone or be with anyone.

In my early twenties, I was in love for a few years with a guy that was the dream perfect looking guy. That swoopy hair of the early 90s. Clothes fit like they were made for him. And yet he was tormented by his own feelings of inadequacy.

A few years later, I met one of the most beautiful men I'd ever seen in my life. Everything about him was truly stunning. He was an actor, and I was part of a theater company doing backstage work. We were stunned when he killed himself. It was shallow then and now but I kept thinking, over and over: how could anyone so beautiful kill themselves? Did he not realize what power he had in his beauty? It's not false to say that, but of course, our lives and our health is far more complex and layered than that. He, too, felt inadequate.

Looks can be power, for sure. It's foolish to not try to acknowledge it. And while everyone has a different continuum of beauty, there's a subset of guys that would probably show up on a Venn diagram of all of our preferences.

It doesn't have much power over me any more, but I have to say, part of that is because I'm not single. If I was in that arena, still trying to land a husband or even a one night stand, I'd probably be invisible or considered dead. I'm old, balding and, in the words of Mrs. Agnes Carpenter (formerly of Downey, CA) I could stand to lose a few.

The only time I ever feel even a twinge of concern about it now is when my partner and I *or* a group of friends go out for dinner or out somewhere social, and the trendy Instagram addicted whores that work at whatever venue frown at our very existence and try to sit us near the rear fire door exit. At 24 I would have meekly clutched the hem of my dress and accepted that. At 54, I just speak up and say "this doesn't work for us, let's consider another option." And either she does, or we leave. Simple as that.

I could say this is a gay men/gay community thing, that gay bars are ground zero for that kind of shallowness, and that so many gay men are, frankly, basic bitches with bad taste and I wouldn't necessarily be wrong. It's why I left the bar scene behind years ago. But it's pretty prevalent among cross section of millennials/Gen Z or on any social media. The focus is on looks, not form or function. Sad, but true.

R112, that does sound awful. Your town has an official photographer, who's not good-looking, but he crops out people who he deems unworthy? Sounds like an asshole. Be aware that this happens on the red carpet (Hollywood), as well, where everybody is supposed to be hot.

I'm the guy from way above who said he didn't think much about his looks either way and then tried the dating scene and found he got rejection after rejection and was stunned by it because I never realized I was so homely. You meet a guy in a bar get along well then go outside where there was light and without a word he would turn and walk away. One guy I was friendly with in a college class was average good looking and told me he was bi after which I told him I thought he was attractive. He said he could never make out with me because I was ugly. Yes he really said that. And then what is even more incredible after he saw how crushed I was he then said well ok we can make out but he would think of somebody else. I of course was like I don't think so.

Another terrible thing was that because I was so devastated and depressed just to get out of bed and get through the day I had to take a LOT of medication. And I swear this is true. I had an average sized dick. Not huge but ok. After taking all this medication it shrunk to the size of a button. People say this doesn't happen but it sure did to me. When it rains it pours. Yes life to me has been 100% not worth it. I mean not to even have somebody to cuddle and kiss with? I could be an enormously talented person and wouldn't give a shit. Being loved and loving not only emotionally but physically were the most important things to me and it just didn't happen.

R134, I responded at R69 and R118.

R133 and R136

Thanks, guys. I have a pretty good life so I won't be moving, and enough therapy to (mostly) move beyond or laugh at such bullshit.

R129 that has gotten me into loads of trouble. I am attracted to “bad boys”.

I would rather be hot and smart than dumb and ugly.

But I was born average-average

My bad, R8 et. al, I missed your subsequent posts. How old is your friend now?

R141- Are you at least well hung?

Somewhat on the other side of the coin, I can admit that I, as an average to plain looking guy, worships and obsesses over male beauties and hotties to a ridiculous-at least I can admit it-degree. Maybe because I want what I never thought I possessed myself?

At any rate, I have made a fool of myself to varying degrees over beautiful men more times than I care to admit. And yes, on some level it’s usually transactional. I’m sure my starkly religious upbringing, where shame around any expressive of outward sexuality was the message, didn’t help. I have spent so much of my life in a state of horny frustration, and unrequited longing that my brain eventually made it into a sex fetish. I love reading or viewing porn where troll/pretty boy pairings are depicted. Makes me feel less alone. Oddly, I have fairly high self-esteem in other areas of my life, just not in the arena of sex and men.

R142, in his 60s. I wanted to clarify something I wrote. He literally once caused an accident. We were walking past what was once the famous Sheik's house in Beverly Hills on Sunset. It was either being rebuilt or had been already, I don't remember. We parked on a side street and walked around it. This wasn't even West Hollywood but Beverly Hills. And there were still people gawking at him from the cars. Maybe they thought he was a movie star. I said I'd give him $20 bucks if he'd take off his shirt for his admirers. He said let me see the $20. I pulled it out, he grabbed it and and then took his shirt off. Within five seconds, someone had an accident on the other side of the street watching him. It was a car full of females. It was almost metaphorical. Great beauty, male and female, is a weapon and dangerous. You must use it carefully and be aware of its power. Luckily no one was injured in the accident but I felt totally shitty about the entire thing.

You know you are geisha when you can cause car accident across street with just one rook.

My eldergay children, remember that youth and beauty are fleeting !!!

One of my brothers was very good-looking and well-built. He went on a double date once and both girls only paid attention to him so that the other guy said, "I may as well not even be here". When I went out and around with my brother, women would be all over him and then he'd introduce me and they'd all get this "ewww, how'd that happen" look. I didn't even consider myself ugly, but virtually no one has ever hit on me. I was always white as a ghost - I figured that was the problem.

R90/R97 I really appreciated your thoughtful and kind response. I do agree with you that people can be fundamentally attractive to lots of people and that provides them a lot of privilege. I guess I was trying to say that being what you’d call a 2 doesn’t mean you won’t meet your 10. I think a lot of my 10s were someone else’s 2. I had a boyfriend who loved Kate Bush and he would repeat her “every old sock meet an old shoe” lyric and then one day he decided to start singing “every old fork meets an old spoon”. And then eventually that became “every old fork meets an old shoe” and that was just so silly but I loved it. There’s a fork out there for every old shoe!

And if being funny never got you into bed with a 10, it would still have gotten you into bed with an r81. I swear. Funny goes a long way for me. But I get what you’re saying. And I am an oddball. I always have been. I never fit into any clique, I never had a large group of all good looking gay men who invited me to do things like group Halloween costumes or trips to P-Town. I just never gelled with guys like that but I don’t resent them and might be a little jealous. And I just never could find enough other oddballs that would all get along. I have a lot a gay male fiends but none of us are circuit party enthusiasts and if we get together it’s one-on one or a small group. And I’ve curated my friends. My friends are my bubble and I get enough less than pleasant experiences from the real world, so I need my friends to be close and that means I have acquaintances but a much smaller group of men (and women) that I am extremely close to instead of 600 guys that probably wouldn’t lend me a phone charger for a few minutes much less give me a ride to the airport or visit me in a hospital.

But your points are well taken.

R104, wow! Flattery will get you everywhere with me. That was too kind. Nobody ever told me I was handsome growing up except for guys I dated and sweet little old ladies. People told me I was “kind” which at the time felt like “that’s it?! I’m nice and that’s it? 😠”. I was really hesitant to post that picture and set it to disappear so it’s already gone from the link. I actually was afraid of what kind of responses I would get so I wanted it up and then gone. I didn’t realize the preview would still be there though. And I really wasn’t compliment fishing. I just wanted to say that I do not recognize that picture and if someone had shown it to me without my grandmother in it and asked me who it was, I probably couldn’t have guessed. And I imagine there are others who feel that way about photos of themselves too, huh? (Though of all the people folks have told me I look like, I’d never heard Matt Dillon! But yeah, that guy does look a little more like Matt Dillon than I do.)

Here’s my brag though. I’m in my 50s and I’ve grown accustomed to seeing cell phone photos of me and now I can recognize them. And I was in a really long relationship that predated cell phones and apps to meet guys so I’d didn’t ever hear I was “sexy” or “hot” or “handsome” until I was late 40s. And I like the way I look more today than I did then, and I didn’t even dislike the way I looked. I just didn’t give it any thought.

My mom loved me. I know that. But when I was a kid she said things like “well, maybe you’ll grow into that nose” and “you look just like my father. You have the ‘big wide open car door ears’ just like he does”. She told me she was proud of how well I did in school and what I did in my career. But my looks…eh?

So I hope that I’m not coming across as someone who is complaining about how I look or don’t know that looks open doors for people. If they did for me, I didn’t make the connection, but I never really thought “I wish was better looking” because I was comfortable, but very invisible. And I liked being invisible.

And r106, no worries or need for apologies at all! I’d figured that one out.

R140, one of my best friends in and after college was this perfectly angelic moon shaped faced boy with big blond curls and I was dark haired and had earrings and always was in a black tee and jeans and when we went out (and we never dated, we were just friends) people would actually walk up to us and say things like “oh you two look like the perfect little couple! He’s the sweet angel and you’re obviously the bad boy! You’re the devil in this couple.” And we might say “yep. That’s us” but as soon as they walked away we’d just smile at one another. I was the good boy. He was SO NOT!

R137 Oh, man. How have you NOT shot up an elementary school?

Well I'm afraid of guns, elementary school was the happiest time of my life and why should others suffer because I look like the hunchback of Notre Dame crossed with ET?

R153- ET was cute.

R122 I don't think so, few are shrewd enough to really think through how powerful the halo effect is.

I live in Arizona, I'm always hot.

I swear to God, half of you have clearly never actually spoken to a real human person.

No. I like being plain and frumpy looking 2 o 3. It's the only way to ensure men leave me alone. Whenever I dress feminine or "guzzy up" it's a whole fucking problem because straight men are actually that damn desperate for strange. Even if you look like a Gremlin that's been fed after midnight. Which I do.

R158- R U on drugs?

r159 What an odd question. Why?

Get a dog, R137, he or she will think you are the hottest guy on earth and love you unconditionally.

I was an ugly duckling through childhood and high school. I had a really bad overbite that my parents were told would need surgical intervention. Even my mother bullied me about it. Eventually the overbite was fixed without surgery but I still had bad acne and hair unmanageable in most hairstyles (tendency to turn into a fro despite being white). I feel downcast, unwanted and ugly at school and at home in my barely functioning family. After I graduated high school my looks improved- the overbite was fixed, acne went away, found ways to style my hair, dressed better and moved away from my family. I went from a 3 to a 9. I guess the good facial structure was there all along. I had never had any romantic attention, just pity. I had my first kiss and lost my virginity at 21 and then relished all the attention for my 20s and early 30s, becoming a bit of a whore really. I still felt like I had to “avenge” my ugliness in earlier life and that lead me to some dark places. If I was rejected by someone I spiralled and felt 14 again. Anyway the apex of all this is that now I am really struggling with ageing and have been for years. I feel invisible again and that any physical attractiveness was a total flash in the pan. I had my time in the sun and felt attractive for that time but now I feel like trash. I wonder if getting older and looks fading would have been easier to take had I remained fug. I have a career, I’ve been sensible with money, I don’t have any addictions and I have friends and wider family however that rush of being in lust or lusted after has gone and I feel its absence. I’m grateful for all I have and have had so call me a shallow cunt of a whore if you like but looks fading sucks and there’s no way around it.

R158, I love Gremlins. If this is you, I’m a fan!

I had a dog from when I was 13-29. I loved her very much and still think about her a lot. No dog can ever replace her.

r162, Perhaps this might help. Remember the Sinatra song "When I was 17"? The songwriter wrote the song for his wife, a former glam showgirl who was saddened by her aging and perceived 'loss of her looks' . Really and truly try to listen to the words. I've heard the song a thousand times, but now that I am older, it really resonates . Hope this helps anyone struggling with this issue.

How old do you have to be to start feeling like you stopped being hot if you were hot when you were young? I ask because I have a picture of me at 18 with a friend and I realized I look so different and she looks exactly the same more then 30 years later. And I am not exaggerating. And it’s not like she looked 52 at 18. She was and still is completely gorgeous. And she doesn’t look anything like a 52 year old. She looks like a 30 year old at most. And besides looking so young, I now know why she’s gorgeous. I’d seen her parents as 40 somethings and I remember thinking they were both normal looking for their age but were both very good looking people but it wasn’t until I saw a photo of them on their wedding day. Her mom was EXTREMELY pretty, but her dad? JFC! That man was smoking hot! An 11 if I ever saw one. There’s no polite way to tell a friend “I want a time machine and I want to go back before you were born because I think my life’s calling was to sleep with your dad”!!

Has anyone done this experiment? Put your "best" photos on both gay and straight sites (the exact same photos) and build the exact same profile just to see which dating app gets the most matches/hits.?

Because obviously, men and women have different standards for looks. Tally up both numbers from both apps and see which one wins. If you're male and get more matches from the straight app from women than you get from the gay app from men, your average in looks and your personality is probably your selling point. If you're female but get more matches from the straight app from men than you do women from the gay app, your personality has no substance and you likely have very little to offer in a relationship.

If you're male and get zero matches in the straight app, and only a few in the gay one. You're a butterface. If you're female and get zero matches in the gay app and a bunch in the straight one, you're only good for a hook-up and may or may not also be a butterface.

Yesterday, unprompted, an old friend sent a pic of me - at age 40 - from her daughter’s wedding years ago. I could easily see why I used to be told I looked like a Kennedy as I definitely had JFK, Jr. looks at the time.

Was your treasure trail as glorious?

[quote] Has anyone done this experiment? Put your "best" photos on both gay and straight sites (the exact same photos) and build the exact same profile just to see which dating app gets the most matches/hits.?

I haven’t done that but I tried Tin

That submitted before I even finished!!

I haven’t done that but I tried Tinder for a day (just one day) and I indicated I was a gay man, interested in men and it matched me with straight women and one straight man!! The straight man described himself as “straight man” in his profile and he said he wanted to match with me.I messaged him to ask him why and he didn’t reply. I couldn’t get the hang of Tinder and every few minutes it sent me a message that “someone likes you! Give us money to see who it is!” so I quit the same day. The only person I talked to on Tinder the whole day was a good friend of mine. Someone I already knew and hang out with. And I still have no clue why women or straight men were seeing or liking me. I don’t think that app works the way it’s supposed to work.

What is wrong with you, R172, that you would post that pic?!

If you want to know, post an add on Grindr with you and then the same add but with a super hot photo off the internet. See how many responses you get. There - you know what it is like.

R172, that’s gross. I’m not squeamish and you did warn people. But that is so outside the bounds of what a normal person would post and joke about.

Anyone wondering, it’s a pic of Paul Walker’s very badly incinerated dead body once seen can never be unseen.

Very bad idea to share.

Yeah R172 that was a pretty sick disrespectful photo to post.

r172 You could've very easily made "the joke" without posting that photo.

As a side note, first responders see this type of shit nearly every single day. Specifically firefighters, police officers, and EMTs. They also work long hours and don't get enough sleep. This is also why a lot of them have substance abuse problems. It's a thankless job.

I can count on one hand - with digits to spare - the number of DL posters I have blocked, but I have blocked R172. I encourage others to do so, as well. As in society at large, there has to be a penalty to be paid for such out of bounds conduct.

I'm guessing that this is a daily sight for the searchers in Lahaina this week. Gruesome.

Who needs hotness with this dick?

[quote]If you want to know, post an add on Grindr with you and then the same add but with a super hot photo off the internet. See how many responses you get. There - you know what it is like

Ok, so, I have a confession to make. I get catfished a lot (a LOT!) by much younger, extremely out of my league handsome All-American type guys who have a tenuous grasp of the English language and always ask the same questions. 1. What are you looking for on this app? And 2. I don’t like to chat here. Can you send me your number and we can talk on WhatsApp (or Telegram or some other app I’ve never heard of). And they always have the little leaf indicating it’s a brand new profile, they’re never verified (where they compare your profile pics to to selfies you take of yourself in different poses to make sure that the photos are really you.) And they’re also dumb. They’ll hide their distance from you and say they’re in Texas. But you can use the first couple letters of their username and age and usually find out approximately how far away they are because you’ll get a list of similarly named profiles and you just have to scroll until you find them and look at the guy before and after them and you’ll see that they’re really not in Texas but they’re approximately 4,000 miles away.

So one day I got one of those and I thought “these are not cell phone pics. These look like professional modeling pics”. So I screen capped one and reverse image searched it and sure enough. American born male model. I was able to find his Instagram and get some more candid photos of the model and I set up a second scruff account with the SAME main profile pic and the scanner had and added in the candids I got from Instagram. Then I switched my pro account credentials to my fake account and messaged the catfisher “Dude??!! You stole my pics and created a fake account with them??” And he replied “NO! You steal MY pics!!” And then he blocked me. I’ve kept that profile up and whenever I get one of the suspicious broken English “let’s talk on WhatsApp” messages, I’ll switch to that profile and start doing the same thing back to them and usually I’ll ask them what they know about cryptocurrency.

I don’t stay logged in to that account so after a couple weeks of being offline, it will disappear from the grid. And I have received messages from real guys who are really in my city and I’m alway honest with them. I’ll say “I’m really sorry, but this isn’t a real profile. It’s only online to hassle scammers and catfishers and I’m sorry you saw it. But the catfishers are so relentless. I needed an account to annoy them with” and they’ll almost always say “oh, I get it. I get those messages a lot too”.

So: I do have a fake scruff profile that I use to harass scammers and it still doesn’t get as many woofs or messages as my real profile. And it’s not designed to look like a fake profile with overwrought sections about finding my true love like most of the catfishers are. It looks like a real profile. It just doesn’t get that many responses for some reason. Maybe most guys can spot it as a fake instantly, but I tried to not make it look like it was fake.

TL;DR - I do have a fake profile and it really doesn’t get much attention. 🤷🏻

R181

God love you, you need a better hobby.

No- not at all. I’ve always been too busy working with what is.

Never was. Never will be. Like a vampire, I avoid mirrors.

I'm fairly good-looking, but I don't think I've ever wondered about being hot--it's so far out of my range of experience or even imagination. Never crosses my mind.

R185- One can be fairly good looking and not be considered a pretty boy but still be considered HOT.

R195, you probably never wondered about it because you’re probably hot. I don’t think hot people give it much thought (unless they’re capitalizing off of it or trying to get famous for it). They’re just hot and what’s there to think about? I’d venture a guess that if you never thought about it, you are hot. Hot guys don’t worry about it, not worrying about it gives them confidence, people see that confidence and it makes them seem even hotter. It’s all a hot vicious circle.

^yeah that was meant for r185. But it might apply to some future r195 if they’re also hot and don’t think about it.

^ Can I lay claim now to being the future R195?!

You are ADORABLE, OP! But no, I never wonder. I just know.

^ You must be at least 50, by now, 24 & 2 HAWT.

It honestly is exhausting. I get two types of guys who hit on me. Ones I am not interested in who then get pissed if I don't act like I am and the ones who fake accept I am not interested and try to be cool and friends but then try to grab your dick or kiss you anyways. I know I am more attractive than most people and I don't really have to work that hard at keeping my body in shape. All I did was win a genetics lottery and I know that. The harder part is relationships. Most guys I have dated never seem to trust me. I get branded a slut because guys will lie and say they have slept with me when they haven't. Hot guys, but they seem to have to show they can bag other hot guys. Funny part is I have a type and most of them are not it. I am 6'2" but sucker for a short king. If you saw any of my ex's you would see the common trait.

R192, your comment about being called a slut resonated with me. I’ve led an almost monk-like existence, yet I’ve heard others accuse me of being a slut. The assumption being, I guess, that anyone who seemingly could have his pick of men must exercise that privilege.

What's it like for a 6'2" guy to make love to a pocket gay? There must be a bit of awkwardness to it.

It would be if people routinely stood up to make love - but a bed is a great equalizer. I was chatting with someone years ago on gay.com, and somehow he mentioned he was from Santa Rosa. I said, oh, I have a friend who lives there on such and such a road. He said, is he tall and very muscular? I said "yes". He said, '"oh I've hooked up with him a number of times. I just use his body as my personal Jungle gym" - which I found so funny I couldn't wait to get off chat and send an email to my friend detailing the exchange.

I was apparently hot when I was in my early-20s (post puberty) to early 40s (pre middle aged flab) but didn't think I was hot and was freaked out when people would come on to me. I am not my type. Had a partner during that time, had only eyes for him (huge mistake that was) and it just felt like everyone was trying to give me AIDS and herpes when they were complimenting me. After 25 years, the partner traded me in for a younger model. Spent the next decade "testing the waters" = whoring around. Physical appearance diminished, and psychological connections became more important. I fucked so many psychos and kissed so many closet cases during those years. It wasn't about me being hot or maybe no longer being hot; it was about them being desperate. No one looks at me now, except for drunken twinks seeking silver haired Daddy. Yawn. And my fiance. He looks at me. We are older than dirt. This will gross everyone here out, but oldman sex is amazing. No one needs to see this, but we still get to have our own fun.

To OP, long ago, I had to ride a long bus ride across town at 4:30am to get me to the job that put me through college. I would always sit next to this one stereotypically fat and wise, beautiful Black woman who smelled so good. She'd always ask me: "Honey, are you seeing anyone?". I always said, "No, I'm just a Dork," to which she said, "Ooh, honey, there's a lid for every pot!". My perception about my appearance has never been an issue since. With 8 billion on the planet, you can find someone who will embrace and enchant you. My own experience is such that I'd rather share life with someone rather than be alone. This might not apply to everyone.

Yeah, well, I never found a lid (or a pot), or anything even close. I came of age right when AIDS-hysteria was at its worst (early 80s). Had sex with ONE person all through college (not at all my type, I was mostly just desperate and he was into me, and I stayed with him for FAR too long). Broke up with him when I graduated and got a real job (and moved into my own apartment). A few years later dated an honestly hot guy for a while, but it turned out he was a manipulative narcissistic sociopath that took one look at me and saw someone really easy to use. And after wrapping me around his finger, he then set about having fun utterly destroying me. It took me years to recover from the emotional abuse.

And that's about it. I had a few two week flings over the next decade or so (while I was at my physical peak in my 30s). I'm pushing 60 now, and haven't had sex since I was 40 (except for twice where I paid for it, and neither was a great experience for anyone). I'm the only single person of all my friends and acquaintances. It's difficult. At this point, the thought of even trying to date makes me recoil. I'm ugly, out of shape, and nobody I would ever be even remotely attracted to on any level would ever be interested in me. I've also gotten quite boring. I don't ever leave the house anymore except to do necessary shopping and errands. I don't socialize except for visiting friends once a year halfway across the country (all my local 'friendships' have faded away or disappeared... my core friends all live in another state and we 'chat' daily on the internet).

Honestly, I feel like everything is over and I'm just sitting here waiting to die, and there's absolutely nothing to look forward to, and I know for a fact my life would have been much better if I hadn't been so ugly, and worse, hadn't had such low self-esteem rooted in the fact that everyone else made it clear how undesirable I was.

Yer killin me R197.

Wish there was anything I could say to make a difference. I hope something unexpected happens that will make you happier.

Man, me too R198 - that post at R197 is depressing and I don't know what to say or if there's anything to say.

[quote]I hope something unexpected happens that will make you happier.

I spent my life hoping for this. Everyone said "you'll find someone" and I never did. At some point, "hope" becomes torture. It's better to just accept nobody will ever desire or love me. I'm literally hoping I don't live to see 70. I can't even imagine. Come on, sudden massive heart-attack, dammit.

Sigh. Guess I killed another thread. Sorry.

Try that in a small town. Just put on a clean shirt and brush your teeth.

As one of the ugly ones I would go to masseurs that I found attractive for decades. For the most part it could be wonderfully sensual lying there naked and having one you found appealing rubbing you all over. There wasn't necessarily a happy ending but a sense of physical intimacy was all I wanted. Unfortunately I no longer have the money and I miss it. When you add in the tip it is now a lot of money. It's been a long time and I'm in my 60s now so I'd hate the look of disappointment that might engender. It helped to keep me in shape going to the gym. And now I say fuck it. My favorite who I adored, such a cutie and I saw him for 7 and a half years, when I got into my 50s he ended the relationship. But it was uncanny how he knew my body and what turned me on. One of those narcissists who could read a person like a book and then take advantage of them? Probably and I didn't care until it ended. I still miss him. Funny how a person doesn't give a damn about you but hones in on you like a heat seeking torpedo.

R203- Why would he dump you as a client if he was making good money from you- I assume at least $150 or more per session.

Gaslighting from general society about good looksis one thing but when it comes from the gay community it's even more hilarious. Gay men worship good looking men and anyone who denies the privileges that looks afford are consciously or subconsciously upholding the hierarchy. Usually it's because these people fall into the range of acceptable attractiveness and don't want the benefits to end.

R204. Well it turned him on working on me(I believe. He got so into it.) And he was very young as in when we started he was 25 and I was in my 40s. Then when I got to my mid 50s not so much. Though the older I got he got angrier in the massages. And he could easily find work anywhere and get a lot more money from much better to do men than myself. Also from his facebook page he became a sex counselor(I imagine for people much younger than myself) and what was very shocking for me because it was public so his siblings could see it was he was into tying people up and knife play(consensual) which kind of freaked me. I talked to a friend who is into BDSM asking if this involves cutting of the skin and she said yes. Whoa. He could get somewhat abusive when he worked on me but nothing I minded except for once and I told him and he immediately stopped. Some kinky stuff but not too shocking. I have to say though he started massaging in ways I never requested but I would get so turned on by it he would yell at me very angrily he was not a whore. Yes I miss him very much. What a relationship!

R206

You win [bold]SOMETHING[/bold], but I'm not sure what it is.

R206 how romantic 🥰

My eternal quest/obsession with male beauty/hotness-qualities I never believed I personally possessed-has led to an addiction to OnlyFans models, in an endless loop of voyeurism on my part and exhibitionism on theirs. Culminating in a yin/yang power struggle where my coin buys their ass, if only in a virtual reality sense. Who is yin? Who is Yang?

Homely, horny voyeurs and sexy calculating exhibitionists. Complete and total exploitation. A tale as old as time. Doesn’t matter the sex, gender or preference. It’s about eroticizing a power imbalance. But who has the power? It’s a game. Sometimes I enjoy it. Other times I feel it’s sick.

R209- The exploitation is the fact that one is never able to download the videos on OnlyFans.

R197 you have a terrible attitude so it's not surprising you haven't had a good sex life or love life. Ever think of changing your mindset?

Fuck off, R211, and while you're doing that, maybe try to grasp the notions of "cause and effect" and stop trying to put one before the other.

I posted at r81 and I’m never going to claim to be hot, so you’ll have to decide if you think my opinion on this is worth considering. I’ve already said that I have trouble recognizing myself in old photos. I’ve recognized what I’ve always seen in the mirror as I’ve gotten older and I’m happier with how I look today than I was a long time ago. I feel like I look like an older version of what I’ve always seen when I’m brushing my teeth but with grey hair and a beard. And I’m probably 10 lbs lighter than I was in that picture.

About two years before it was taken. I very vividly recall coming back from a long Christmas break and being told by an extremely mean boss “oh! You’ve gained so much weight! You’ve gotten so fat!” Now English was not his first language and he could have meant you’ve gained weight and it looks ok on you. But that’s not how it came out. So that picture was me at my heaviest and also never being told I was handsome by anyone. A true ego boost for anyone, I’m sure.

But this is what I think about guys who are objectively hot. Yes, it must come with all sorts of advantages, both socially and in terms of jobs and other opportunities. But not when it come to relationships necessarily. I think there are two types of hot guys. Ones that are self-confident and enjoyable to be around and mean girls. And the mean girls may outnumber the nice guye. And it’s also easy to recognize the mean girls because they run in the same circles.

I moved to a new city and I think within 5 minutes of opening an app, I had been messaged by half the gay men in town, most with an unrequested pic and most asking “when can you come over?” or “when can I come to your place?” and I spent a lot of time replying “thanks, but could we get a coffee or a beer first? I like to get to know someone before things go any further”. That was the end of most of those conversations. And once you’re dead to someone in a clique of mean girls, you are dead to them all.

I once met a guy and when we were introduced he was so incredibly and openly rude to me that a mutual friend apologized and made excuses for him. I was so humiliated I wanted to be invisible and I was thinking “I’ve already seen your penis and I was also very nice to you!” And I also had to question why a friend that I liked would also be friends with someone like that and who they apologized on behalf of.

So I think that some hot guys are probably already dead to the mean girls who think “Ugh, I can’t stand that self-righteous guy who thinks he’s nice and isn’t even that hot anyway” and they’re stuck between that, average guys like I consider myself who think “I’m not approaching him, he’s way out of my league” and genuinely nice, hot guys who are friendly but already in relationships.

So where does that leave them? Stuck between mean hot guys who hate them for no reason, nice hot guys who are already seeing someone, and guys who are afraid to make the first move? And if you have to be the one to make the first move all the time, that’s just exhausting and eventually you’ll give up because it’s just not worth the trouble.

I think I’ve always had to make the first move if I wanted something more than just a hookup, and like I said a million posts ago, by the time I like a guy, it doesn’t matter what the rest of the world sees. They are already hot to me.

I wouldn’t give up being nice and smart (and maybe naïve) for being hot. It doesn’t seem that appealing to me. I’m not trying to be self-deprecating or pretending to feel sorry for myself, I’m happy with all the guys I dated (almost) even though none of those relationships worked out. I’m friends with all but one ex and that one really hurt, because I tried to be his firend. And I’m not trying to say anyone should feel sorry for the genetically blessed. But that’s all that is. A weird combination of genes that turned some guys handsome. It didn’t give them all great personalities (that’s for sure!)

R212 more evidence of your disagreeable interactions. I am sorry you had that boyfriend from hell. I know those things happen. But you then let it ruin two or more decades of possibilities to meet more normal guys for sex and love. That was your work to do and you can't lay the blame on the one bad boyfriend. In my opinion.

The summer after high school I lost weight and when I went to college I was getting a lot more attention. I remember walking in a bar and heads turning, but I was too insecure to do much about it. But I got back into my bad eating habits and got doughy again and never reached hotness level again.

I broke the crematorium.

I was rejected left and right in the early 1990's- from 1989 to 1992 sometimes by guys who were totally average looking and not out of my league. I'm not sure what hurt me more back then being rejected by an average looking guy or being rejected by a really good looking guy- they were both really bad to me. I remember one average looking slightly dumpy guy I went on a date with and called him three days later and he was totally cold to me. I felt like Humpty Dumpty. I was broken into a million pieces. It took me about three days to recover from that rejection. I started lifting weight in the fall of 1992 and by the summer of 1993 things were looking up. When I went to a bar guys to standing next to me and staring at me. I rarely went home with anyone for year because I was too uptight to talk to anyone. I had good looking and very good looking guys cruise me in the bars. I have not been to a gay bar since 2011 and I'm sure I would be totally invisible now- oh well.

I’m afraid to pick up a stranger right now. I just had a dream in which someone I knew got murdered by a trick.

R218- I would just go to a bathhouse. Much safer than meeting someone from the apps and having them over to your place.

My typing sucks/ These are my corrected sentences- When I went to a bar guys would stand next to me and stare at me. I rarely went home with anyone for years.

I was never “standard formula Hot” in the eyes of most gays — I’m bald and very slim — but I’m also 6 ft 3 with attractive facial features. I’m getting old now but I had a quirky, striking attractiveness in my mid 20s to early 40s. Most gays would ignore me; as a package I fell outside their sexual orientation— but a few would be wholly and intensely attracted. It can take years to figure out how to get the best out of your looks with the hand you’ve been dealt… and show up to places in a good mood. Much easier said than done. But every time I ever got lucky, that’s how it went.

[quote]I rarely went home with anyone for years.

Me neither, r219. I usually limited it to one night, possibly two on a weekend.