It's Vivian Vance's 114th birthday

Those were fabulous eyeglass frames.

OP, this should've been a poll.

She looks cute there. She was a pretty lady.

r3 = Mary Wickes

She had sufficient.

r3 just smashing!

I'm getting her some hostess pants.

It was fun seeing her turn up on an episode of "Rhoda". She plays a new neighbor (Bewitched's own David White played her husband), who befriends Rhoda, causing some awkward moments featuring Ida, who is jealous of their new found friendship. I'm sure this has been shared here before, but I'm sharing it as well.

She has the biggest pottamus I've ever seen.

She wanted a toaster!

I hope she lives another 114 years!

^ No thanks...

This should have been a poll OP!

With only Vivian Vance as all choices.

Saint Vivian of Vance...

she helped cure my large potamus

Vivian Vance truly was the banana peel to Lucy’s banana. She was a crucial component to Lucy becoming such a star. Without Ethel, Lucy would have been so/so. Vivian deserved so much more credit and accolades than she received, IMHO. Sure, Desi assisted in the shows success, but Vivian really had a “quiet and very humble “it” factor, as well.

R16, She was the first cast member to win an Emmy.

R17 . . .

She's adorable in r18.

YOU’RE WELCOME!

"But I wanted a toaster!"

R23 Ethel looks like a total Karen in FunkoPop form.

OP beat me to the punch!

Saint Vivian smiles beatifically on all of her devoted DL followers...

R32 we love you, Viv!! Thanks for the smiles and laughs. ♥️

To my mind, she never gets enough credit as a Maxwell House coffee pusher during the 1970s. People seem to remember Margaret Hamilton’s stint much more plainly.

Why do people wish DEAD people "happy birthday?"

R36 A true star is forever.

Op are you both the same age?

How many thought Vivian was prettier than Lucy? Didn’t Lucy say they needed to ugly up Ethel’s character because she thought Viv was prettier? Also, was it true Viv had to be 10lbs heavier than Lucy. I remember as a child, I watched an Interview with Lucy and Viv on either Merv or Dinah’s talk show and Vivian said that she had to be 10 lbs heavier and they both laughed. I still remember that as a child.

In those final Connecticut seasons if ILL, Vivian and Bill looked way better than Lucy and Desi. Lucy and Desi were coming undone.

Ethel Mae Potter...

We never forgot her!

R43 I loved that episode. Although, my spouse and I hate how egotistical Ricky became when he realized it was all about Ethel. Ricky was too spoiled and all his camera closeups. Damn.

I love Lucy's reaction at the EMMYS. She seems more excited than Viv. In a rare move, as to not steal the spotlight from Viv, you could tell Lucy was trying to reign in her emotions.

Do you have to be gay to be a Vivian Vance fan in 2023? I don't mean it in a bad way, but do any straight men or women love Vivian Vance? Is there any Vance crossover appeal? I'm not trying to be mean, but to be a fan of Viv is so niche and gay, like being a fan of Bert Lahr (not the Cowardly Lion mind you, Bert Lahr). There's definitely a crossover into the het world with other gay icons like Judy, Liza, Bette, but I think with Viv there might not be. Again, not saying this is bad, it's wonderful. This thread just got me thinking about it.

R46 trust me you spent too much time trying to analyze this.

R45 I wish I could see that video.

R41 That contract Viv read on Dinah Shore was purely a joke, but it took on a life of its own and many sources falsely claim it was true. She was never obligated to remain bigger than Lucy. The one time Viv did get noticeably heavier, in season 4, was because her marriage to Phil Ober was deteriorating.

r48: It's posted at r18

R49 oh wow, thank you. I can still vividly remember that interview. My sister and I were so excited to see them outside of their roles. We were such crazy fans.

R42 I noticed that, too. Stress and alcohol took its toll, so Lucy and Desi were looking quite haggard. Bill stayed the same, while Viv looked far more glamorous.

Viv had a nose job and facelift shortly after her divorce.

R52, Desi coaxed MGM cinematographer Karl Freund out of retirement to film ILL beginning in 1951.

Freund told Desi that it was going to be difficult to photograph Lucy youthfully because “she was no chicken” at age 40.

R54 True. Lucy looked pretty good through most of the run, but the lines on her face became very pronounced by the final (half-hour) season. No wonder she switched to wigs afterwards.

R54 & R55 I love all that gossip. Anymore?

r56 the way Lucille treated Vivian was a real slap to the face.

Mother of Datalounge

Interesting comments from Edie Adams on how contentious the relationship between Lucy and Desi became at the end.

R56 Not sure if this is gossip, per se, but it is trivia.

“Lucy Does a TV Commercial” was first written to feature Ethel but not Fred. For whatever reason, this was later swapped, and it became the last episode produced not to include Vivian at all.

The original draft also included an unused tag scene taking place the following day, showing Lucy with a massive hangover. To help cure her symptoms, Ethel would’ve brought her a bottle of…take a wild guess.

r60 years ago, I read that Phil had roughed her up and she wasn't presentable enough for filming that week. No idea if that's true, but makeup artist Hal King said she often came to the set with bruises.

Viv was the type of girl that every woman wanted for a best friend and every man wanted….her to introduce him to Viv’s better looking friends.

Lucille hated Phil from almost the very beginning. I've sometimes wondered if there was an early incident between Phil and Vivian that she witnessed, or if she just sensed he was abusive.

R61 I read that too. That Phil gave Vivian a black eye.

R63 Lucille was quoted as saying Phil “loved to embarrass” Vivian. Based on that, I’d say she did witness at least some of his behaviour towards Viv.

Considering how old she looked on I Love Lucy, I would’ve guessed it has been nearly 130 years since her birth.

r66 = Bill Frawley

R63, Philip Ober appeared in one of the ILL Hollywood episodes as MGM studio head Dore Schary.

[quote] To help cure her symptoms, Ethel would’ve brought her a bottle of…take a wild guess.

Aunt Martha's Old-Fashioned Salad Dressing?

^ for your pleasure...

What I love most about r70 is that Vivian is playing a housewife who has no idea how to act. It's brilliant.

When Vivian said in her Emmy award acceptance speech about Lucy "being the best straight woman in the business' was really true of Vivian...

and she probably said it just to keep Lucille from going ballistic with jealousy over her Emmy win

r72 Lucille took Vivian's Emmy home that evening

^ And Lucy scratched out Vivian's name with a hair pin

and wrote her own name in

[quote]Aunt Martha's Old-Fashioned Salad Dressing?—It Has So Much Alcohol and It's So Good!

And if you use it...you won't poop out at parties!

I wonder why she didn't mention Phil in her acceptance speech.

[quote]And Lucy scratched out Vivian's name with a hair pin and wrote her own name in—And Displayed It on the Set As Her Own

In later years, Lucy used that same Emmy to peg Gary Morton with

Vivian really was beautiful.

east 68th street in Manhattan ends at the 500 block so the Mertzes and Ricardos 623 east 68th street is in the middle of the east river.

^ that's why my apartment was so cold and damp!

^ It was a very nice building and it had water views from every window!

* and I'm sick of your complaining Matilda Trumbull - I'm raising your rent, you old cunt!

Damn, no wonder Vivian had a nervous breakdown. So very sad. How much stress can you really handle? William, Phil, Lucy, etc

r82 during the ILL years, she began to fear another nervous breakdown. According to hairdresser Irma Kusely, Phil was extremely possessive. If she and Vivian socialized in Vivian's dressing room, he'd become enraged.

So young!

Here's a question I've often had: in 1951, when I Love Lucy premiered, was Lucille Ball a household name in middle America (from her work in radio and film)?

R85, Of course.

IMO, R85, Lucille was an established leading actress who had been an MGM contract player for many years. She's played the lead in many good films, but she was considered more a B picture actress by the early 1950s, and as she turned 40 years old, she wasn't being offered leading roles.

Lucille had established herself as an adept comedienne from her work on her popular radio show "My Favorite Husband", in which Richard Denning played her husband.

While the "My Favorite Husband" was different from "I Love Lucy" in many ways - Richard Denning wasn't Cuban, and Lucille and Richard played a couple who lived at 321 Bundy Drive in the fictitious city of Sheridan Falls - it also had similarities to "I Love Lucy".

In fact, "I Love Lucy" recycled several episode plots directly from the radio show, especially in the early seasons.

as the leads.[2] The couple lived at 321 Bundy Drive in the fictitious city of Sheridan Falls

I read that Viv would have come back to The Lucy Show for a 4th Season if Lucy had given her a pay bump and equal billing. Lucy said no, but it was just business. It didn't seem to hurt their friendship.

R88 man, celebrities were paid absolutely nothing. Look at Carol Burnett and her husband never gave Vickie a raise. Her salary remained the same even after she requested an increase.

[quote]Lucy said no, but it was just business. It didn't seem to hurt their friendship.

It didn't hurt their friendship, because Vivian didn't let it.

Vivian helped Lucy re-establish herself with "The Lucy Show" after her divorce from Desi and Lucy's failed attempt at a Broadway show with Wildcat.

Lucy repaid Vivian by refusing to give her a raise or better billing, and she brought in Ann Sothern just to show Vivian she could be replaced. But Ann found Lucy to cheap and cunty to continue to work with her on the series.

But Vivian still dutifully showed up for at least 1-2 guests episodes for all the rest years Lucy had a series on the air.

R90 interesting.

[quote]celebrities were paid absolutely nothing. Look at Carol Burnett and her husband never gave Vickie a raise. Her salary remained the same even after she requested an increase.

Joe Hamilton was also notoriously cheap. The difference was Vicki Lawrence was a young actress barely out of her teens, who had virtually little experience when they hired her for The Carol Burnett Show.

Vivian was a well-established actress who not only was instrumental in making "I Love Lucy" a hit, but she also pitched in and helped Lucy make her sit-com comeback in "The Lucy Show", when Lucy was in a touch spot (Lucy, even by her own telling was nearly 50 when she started "The Lucy Show"), and many in Hollywood had predicted Lucy couldn't have a hit show without Desi.

I don't think losing Vicki Lawrence would have been a huge loss for The Carol Burnett Show.

R92 truth, Vivian was quite a bit more talented. I wholeheartedly agree. Vickie did not add much to Carol Burnett she was pretty one note. She nailed Momma though. I remember watching CB as a child and my parents hated Vicki and felt Carol could have found a better actress.

I’m R89, it just seems like there was more leeway with paying celebrities in those days. People were just happy to be on TV. If they complained they were easily replaced.

I am so relieved to know the interview I watched with my sister with Lucy and Vivian was all a ruse. Vivian was not told to be 10 lbs heavier.

R93 = Alberta Meacham

I wonder at what point Lucille realized what a gem she had in Vivian.

[quote]I wonder at what point Lucille realized what a gem she had in Vivian.

Vivian made her final appearance with Lucille in the 1977 special "Lucy Calls the President", during the filming of which Lucille was reported to be in particularly foul mood.

At one point, Vivian asked Lucille's opinion of what she was wearing, and Lucille responded, "What difference does it make; you'll look like a cow anyway."

Vivian who had already had cancer and a stroke brushed off Lucille's behavior as she had learned to do. But others on the set, even those who had worked with Lucille before, were shocked by her behavior.

And they called ME a bitch, r97!

R97 Don’t worry, Viv threw plenty of snipes at Lucille during their time together. Viv was reportedly one of the few people that could get away with that. Listen to the episode of Lucille’s radio show “Let’s Talk to Lucy” (available as a podcast) when Viv was the guest. Viv referred to Lucille as “Miss Ball” whenever she was about to make fun of Lucille’s behavior at work. Viv then proceeded to make Lucille look like a cultural illiterate about art. All of this was intermixed with lovey dovey talk between them. Their relationship was clearly complicated.

Madelyn Pugh said Lucy and Viv were like sisters. They’d have their fights, then both would end up sobbing and hugging. That “Over the Teacups” scene was probably very true to life.

What's sad is that Phil tried to sabotage their friendship by telling Vivian that she and Lucille were acting like lesbians and that people were talking about them behind their back. It's kind of a brilliant act of manipulation: he knew that Lucille was a positive influence on Vivian and so he wanted to cut her off. But instead of telling Vivian outright that she couldn't be friends with Lucille, he made her ashamed of the friendship; that way, when she distanced herself from her friend, she felt like it was her own decision.

(r101 was meant for r100)

my fav

Ethel looks good!

Did she ever dig into Fred’s cranky crunt and shock that eel to life with her drooling smacking lips 👅 ?

That's an image I could live without r105

Lucy was definitely showing her age by the Hollywood episodes

R87 Just a little correction, Lucille signed with MGM around 1943 and they let her go after three years. She was at RKO before that, and did movies for other studios.

Thanks r108

Always liked this picture of her

I never liked Lucy's hair in r104

r65 according to Vivian's biography, Hedda Hopper also witnessed his abusive behavior, but it doesn't go into details.

R112, Lucy and Hedda Hopper were very close friends.

After Hedda’s death in 1966, Lucy purchased her beloved Rolls Royce from her estate as a memento.

[quote]After Hedda’s death in 1966, Lucy purchased her beloved Rolls Royce from her estate as a memento.

Didn't know this. Thanks!

I love Viv but she's a supporting actress. Like Valerie Harper, move her to star and she's less interesting by a lot. Her performance on Rhoda was depressing because she was still Ethel/Vivian but with a different name.

r115 = the ghost of Lucille

Vivian writing in 1955 about her nervous breakdown

Did Lucille like Vivian's gay husband?