Why is Taylor Swift so unappealing?

Agree 💯 %. Actual grown adults in my office stressing about getting concert tickets for Taylor reinforces my contempt for them.

She’s only for white women and their white gay counterparts. She’s for the white female gaze of the “perfect white woman”.

She has cute songs but it’s crazy how far cute has gotten her. When you look at other artists with 16 year-careers like Madonna’s “Ray of Light”, Beyoncé’s “Lemonade”, Mariah’s “Emancipation of Mimi”, Janet’s “The Velvet Rope”, etc etc there’s a lot of growth and maturity and breakthrough.

Taylor Swift feels eternally on her second - third album. She still feels like she’s a young new artist still doing well with the kids. She still feels like a flavor of the month and doesn’t feel like a grounded artist cause she’s always about fluff.

She’s like if Madonna made “True Blue” over and over and over again for 20 years.

I also think Taylor Swift’s appeal is she’s the last “white girl” standing. Since the 2000s, popular music has shifted to hip-hop culture and ever since Gwen Stefani, white pop stars have since had a touch of hip-hop culture in their music and imagery.

Whereas Taylor Swift has been able to remain more “pure” and not have to touch black / hip-hop culture or even gay culture to succeed. She has been able to remain a vanilla white pop singer and I think the white girls who don’t like blacks and gays find relatability. They’re just white chicks who like fairytales and American pie and breaking up with boys and she’s their leader.

And it’s not that she didn’t TRY. “Reputation” was all about giving Beyonce-like imagery and trying to grab gay audiences and it failed. That’s why she made the whitest girl album “Lover” after.

r2 That's a great analysis. A very big part of her success is her lack of growth. In terms of music in general, it feels there is no new sound to sell. She is selling something very simple and familiar. She is not a provocateur, she portrays herself as a good friend for dull people.

Her clothing looks like tacky ice skating outfits.

She must have had surgery to widen her eyes they were a lot more narrow when she started out.

Her parents are Repugs, daddy’s money helped her have a career.

Man I thought it was just me, OP. I never met a cheesy pop song I didn’t like but Taylor Swift completely baffles me. The only song of hers that ever stuck with me is Shake It Off, which sounds like something from a Nickelodeon kids show. I don’t remember it because it’s good; it’s just an annoying earworm. Nothing else I’ve ever heard from her has made any impression. And the live performances I’ve seen are shockingly bad. Weak voice, little stage presence. Amazing that anyone would pay out the wazoo for concert tickets.

I recently read that more than 20 of her songs have the same chord progression. I was shocked that they all don’t. Britney and Avril Lavigne haven’t had growth in their music either but they aren’t at the mega stardom level that Taylor is.

I find her voice really unappealing and uninteresting. I might have a higher regard for her as a songwriter if she let someone else cover her songs.

There are very few women in pop right now with compelling voices, IMHO. (And no, I'm not an Adele fan, sorry.)

I don’t like her music either but I respect that she’s done her own thing. She never copied the other female pop artists around her. She seems pretty smart too.

I haven't liked any of the other female vocalists listed thus far in the thread, so it's no surprise I don't like Taylor Swift. I do like three of her songs, though, "Love Story," "You Belong with Me," and "We Are Never Getting Back Together." But I only like the last one as performed by Aaron Tveit. Makes me imagine him and Jake.

R 6

Me too, I find Taylor and her music instantly forgettable. I respect her hustle and ability to build a mega career, but there’s no there, there.

[quote] She has been able to remain a vanilla white pop singer and I think the white girls who don’t like blacks and gays find relatability

Liking Taylor Swift doesn’t mean a person is racist or a homophobe. Jesus Christ some of you people can find outrage in anything.

We are talking about her the way our parents talked about Madonna.

r13 I disagree. Madonna was perceived as a troublemaker... too sexual, skanky, wild, weird, wore too much make up, etc. Parents today are relieved if their children are Taylor Swift fans. She is viewed as a safe role model for their tone deaf, uncool children.

R12 I didn’t say they were racist or homophobic, I said they simply don’t relate or aren’t interested in black or gay culture. But hit dogs holler.

Taylor Swift almost reminds me of Norah Jones in the sense that she’s so unbelievably boring that you just want to switch to another artist.

R13 Taylor’s a year and a half younger than me.

Apart of me feels like OK maybe I’m like those gays from the 70’s who didn’t get Madonna by the time the 80’s came out.

But there’s so many artists after Taylor Swift that I enjoy.

It’s not like I’m too old to like new artists or new music.

And I still don’t like or understand her.

She for the girls who still love Justin Bieber.

OP it’s okay to not like everyone’s music because everyone’s tastes are different

But you are just a filthy misogynist.

R18 No way. Justin Bieber is very universal at this point and there’s a big difference between the two of them. He has a huge black / Latino audience.

Taylor Swift fans find Justin Bieber dirty and ghetto.

R9 She copies Beyonce all the time.

When Beyonce stopped doing interviews, she stopped.

Beyonce didn’t release any music videos for her last album so Taylor didn’t either.

And as stated she tried to copy her hard for “Look What You Made Me Do” and it was a fail.

Well, since Beyonce is a ripoff artist herself, who gives a shit about either one of them?

She is the Queen of two-note songs. Every tune, just as reminiscent as the past. So milquetoast, so boring- like when the Fuck is she going to mature as an artist??

But she's blonde, perennially cute, and as others have stated White. The perfect all-American cheerleader that most young men want to date, and the girl "every" white female secretly desired to be in Highschool. Bleh.

Yet, she churns out her formulaic songs in her squeaky-clean voice one after another, so her adoring fans can continue to remain, in their suspended reality.

Nauseating.

[quote]Her sense of style and fashions are generally tragic.

Great gowns. Beautiful gowns.

I think she’s hideously ugly. No eyes, gangly body, absolutely no fashion sense, I will never get the obsession. And completely talent-free.

This is timely because I just watched the Miss Americana doc on Netflix. I really didn’t know anything about her except celeb gossip. I do know that my nieces, who are in their late 20s and 30 have always been fans and have outgrown their earlier tastes including Miley, Jonas Brothers, Bieber, etc. Taylor’s ticket buying fans are adults, and sometimes multigenerational fans. Her popularity will probably never wane.

I’m glad Taylor is using her voice and reach on political issues that matter.

R20 Bieber has a huge black and Latino fanbase?! Oh, my sides.

[quote]I'm a 48 year old gay man, a big fan of pop music.

Also, unappealing.

Well, there WAS that Folklore album, produced by Bon Iver, which stretched her sound a bit into "Sorta Indie". I found it more listenable than the rest of her stuff.

I really hate how she did these 'answer songs' to the drama caused by the ghetto R&B artists. She became phony to me at that point, which is worse than bland and harmless.

R23 I don’t know any men who talk about Taylor Swift. I don’t think she’s desirable among straight guys, she’s too boring.

Porn stars usually emulate / model themselves after famous figures men find attractive.

No one tries to look like Taylor Swift.

But at the same time, how can you? She has absolutely no image.

As I said, she is the for the white female gaze. She’s what white women find beautiful. White men? It’s questionable.

Daisy Keech is an example of a white man’s ideal blue eyed blonde.

Oh and Sydney Sweeney.

[quote]A very big part of her success is her lack of growth.

She is nothing if not shrewd at marketing, and she knows perfectly well that formula sells. It's not "lack of growth," it's "giving the people what they want."

I think she’s in the zillenial sweet spot - simple melodies, never too much emotion but always a touch of melancholy, lyrics that blame other people for your problems.

She knows she’s not cool and has many haters. That has made her popular among all the not cool kids. Similiar in a way to Trump. Although their politics are 180 of course.

[quote]lyrics that blame other people for your problems.

There is something to this, I think. It's a common thread in the current generation's navel gazing.

[quote]Furthermore, I don't think she's beautiful (or even nice to look at)

What does this have to do with anything? Is this thread about her looks or her music? You describe yourself as gay so why is this even a factor?

At 48, you're about a generation older than her intended audience. Her music isn't meant for you. Since you seem pretty out of touch about a lot of things I'd suggest just sticking to what you like. You don't need to listen to everything that's popular right now. It's not for you anyway.

OldCrankLounge

Smell R36....

r36 smells correct.

IMO, she's pretty, and got a pass for awhile for having Kanye pull that asshole move about Beyonce at the VMAs, but I couldn't care less about her musical talents. I know she started in country and is probably the most popular crossover 'artist '. I use that term loosely, as one thing she's been truly successful with is in crafting her image. Hires the right people to be around her and is no doubt a skilled and calculating tactician. She seems almost mechanical in the warmth she projects, but she's doing something right to appeal to the masses. (A demographic so well known for their good taste).

R10 I love him. I have never heard of him.

I luv the warmth of her eyes.

She's a cunt dear.

She has a reptilian face.

[quote] I don't get it. I'm a 48 year old gay man

Answered your own question

I think the reason she is so irritating is because she reminds us of that “mean girl” from high school. Blond hair, blue eyes, fake nice, will stab you in the back, everyone thinks she is perfect, etc. Deep down inside you know that you can never trust her.

I never understand these things. Why is XYZ unappealing? You don't like her. Okay. She is still a billionaire, sells out stadiums and holds more grammys than most artists. I am sure she is wrecked you don't like her.

Mark David Chapman, where art thou?

r4 she's the female Ed Sheeran. But if Ed Sheeran looked like Shawn Mendes or Chris Evans, he would have a social presence that mirrors Taylors. Those that say she isn't pretty don't understand how far being a white girl, with blond hair, and generally skinny, gets you in this world. Many straight men want to fuck Taylor and many woman want to be here, same perfect balance Britney Spears had during the run of her first three albums. Hot enough to attract men, but not too hot to piss off their girlfriends who want to be her.

Another note, Madonna was always jealous of MJ because his fans would scream, faint, and go crazy over him. Madonna was upset because she says fans don't do that for female artists. Well, Taylor's fans have proven that Millennial and Gen-Z now worship their female artists in a way Madonna could only dream of.

Beyonce has fan, Harry Styles has fans, JB has fans, BTS has crazy fans, but Taylor has a zombie army that worship the ground she walks on.

Seriously r48? WTF is wrong with you?

Just want to add a PS to my post at r6. I have no issue with Taylor Swift herself. She seems like a decent person. Don’t care how she dresses or looks. It’s just her bland music garnering such mass appeal that escapes me. I work with people ranging from 20s to 50s who are up in arms about not being able to get concert tickets. I guess I didn’t read OP’s post all the way through

Oh, I have to admit, this is a damn catchy song and nearly pop perfection.

R52, that's terrible.

I forgot there’s one other Swift song I sort of know. Don’t know the name but it’s the one where she bleats Juliet several times throughout. I assume Romeo is in there as well but it’s her shout-sing of Juliet that startles me anytime that song plays in the background

She's unappealing because she has the female version of Peter Pan syndrome. 10 years from now, she'll still be singing songs about men who've pissed her off.

R55 even though she is a lesbian.

R56 That makes since since she looks like her pussy stinks.

Grammys recently changed their voting rules to include not giving gifts to voters. You’d think that would already be in place! The fact that her father bought into a record company to start her career means it’s not a leap to believe she’s not capable of the same thing. That’s the only thing that explains how this mediocre woman could have three albums of the year. As Bruce Springsteen said on Howard Stern recently about her music “It’s Ok.” People call her smart. I thinks she cunning. Also selfish, manipulative, greedy, and exploitative. Most Grammy voters are anti-woke and loved the idea of giving a white woman awards to thumb their nose at what they consider black culture. She used that.

She holds on to those fans because outside of that bubble she probably doesn’t have any friends (other than the ones where the relationship is mutually beneficial). The reasons she’s all over the media is that she spends a lot to keep herself front and center… and to keep the competition stifled. And has PR minions patrolling every media outlet ready to pounce. Like AI they learn and change their tactics. Stars who need all this PR policing usually really need it like when Tom Cruise fired his publicist and the wheels came off right that! I don’t like her. I never liked her.

R57 yes, I have had her

*came off right away.

I don't even know her other songs but I love this one - You Need to Calm Down. (found a link here on DL so thanks, whoever you are!)

Proud of her for not being a Repub fundie like some rockers shockingly are (I guess the older ones - Kid Rock, Ace Frehley, Manson, etc)

I agree with this thread's consensus that she's so bland, but we're all clearly in the minority. This woman is selling out massive stadiums. If she wants it, I imagine she can still be doing that into her 40s and 50s.

Also, R58: re your comment about Sprinsteen....

[quote]As Bruce Springsteen said on Howard Stern recently about her music “It’s Ok.”

... do you have a link? Because he offers her praise here on Stern:

Her work ethic is rather extraordinary, and she basically now has The National as her backing band full stop. Admire her control over content, and she's been a strong supporter of the LGBTQ community, so I can't in really shade her. She just hasn't done anything I have connected with, and I don't expect her to - I'm 57. But she's ubiquitous as fuck.

She’s very bubbled though and can be avoided so I feel like how big is she?

She’s an artist you can escape. Artists like Katy Perry and Rihanna could annoy the hell out of me cause they were everywhere. Ed Sheeran is everywhere.

I never listen to the radio and still manage to get annoyed by Sheeran cause his music is somewhere.

Taylor? Aside from “Shake It Off”, nothing has ever been that big.

It’s like if you don’t hang out with 20 - 30 year old white women, you probably won’t hear her ever.

r64 That's a good point. I think she's very popular with a specific group, and she lacks true mass appeal. A niche artist for people desperately holding on to their childhood... hoarding yucky old toys for sentimental reasons.

"I'm a gay man rapidly approaching 50. Why is this pop-star who performs exclusively for teenage girls and young women so unappealing to me as a middle aged homosexual male?? Plus she's a total DOG, a double-bagger for sure. Someone please explain, I am old."

"I'll take the generational divide framework with a side of misogyny, please!"

R67 come on. Hating a bitch doesn’t make you a misogynist.

I'm surprised her fans didn't propel "Cats" to become a hit.

The "poptimism" movement has gone too far. Madonna and MJ proved that pop albums could be taken as works of art, not just disposable entertainment. But now, the pendulum has swung so far that even songs as trite and childish as "Shake it Off" are considered artistic.

I read that this week, Taylor Swift has surpassed Whitney Houston in sales. RIP Whitney.

Taylor is the last artist to really sell records. Like I said, her zombie army worships her. It helps that she turned a simple business deal, the sale of her masters, into a lucrative grift. She is putting out the exact same Albums and her fans are buying it, after buying and streaming the originals.

No other artist has been able to grift 6 albums twice, but Taylor played the game to win. Always the victim, always raking in money, always the underdog (now an underdog billionaire). It’s madness.

R72, I remember for a while it looks like Adele would look like the biggest female artist since Celine but each subsequent album after 21 has sold less than the predecessor. I didn't think Taylor would beat her but here we are. She really was brilliant to market herself to little girls. Those little girls are now older but still mentally/emotionally children so they are still flocking to her; Genius.

I don't mind her, she's easy to avoid, but her fans are real weirdos online.

What's interesting is her lack of impact on pop culture, despite great success. It's because creatively, she's bringing absolutely nothing new or interesting to the table. People often talk about her boyfriends and her shrewd business moves, but rarely her actual music.

Overexposure

R68 But calling women bitches sure does

R56 She sure banged a lot of dudes for a supposed lesbian

She's a great storyteller that many people relate to. It's not that hard to understand.

She always looks and sounds the same.

What a boring storyteller. It's always the same dull story, about how some guy screwed her over. It's sad that she doesn't exist outside of her PR relationships.

Right, "I stay out too late" are the kind of lyrics someone in fifth grade would write up, not an adult woman. That's not great storytelling.

*IS the kind of lyric

I don’t know why all you motherfuckers keep saying she’s a billionaire. In 2022, her net worth was $540 million and in 2023, her net worth is $740 mullion. She’s getting there, but she’s not there yet. And hopefully she’ll die before she gets there.

R84 those net worth calculators are notoriously wrong. They don’t know the deals people have. But for Taylor, I’m calling her a billionaire because it’s been announced that her will net her a cool billion, with hundreds of millions in her pocket so she is going to tip into billionaire status. Her tour is already one of the highest grossing in history (not accounting for inflation) and the fist to have an expect gross of a billion.

Beyonces tour is also going to pull nearly a billion. Doesn’t account for costs and Bey’s cut, but it’s also massively successful with ticket sales. Ticket sales are between $750million.

Another notch for Taylor is that she has full song written credits, half the masters for her catalog, has had now three major tours, and still sells physical copies of her albums. Add brand deals and you can see how she’s a cash cow.

Stop it r70. At MJ and Madonna's peak we were in the 80s. The decade FULL of mindless pop albums. Pop has always been a singles driven section of music, rarely focused on an album's story instead focused on vibes and creating a moment. A few artist having a few thoughtful albums, doesn't mean we are on some decline. It's the same quality of shit, just different people pushing mindless sounds.

I love MJ and Madonna albums, but they had the massive boost of being at the tail end of the post-WWII American global influence. So, everyone in the world was told they are the King and Queen of Pop, so bow down bitches. And most of the world accepted them as pop titans. Pop has been nothing but disposable crap since the beginning.

It's meant to be fun first, deep, second. Taylor has songs that are fun, catchy, and easy to sing along to, like an old kid's TV show sing-along segment.

R86, I wasn't saying that the 80s was any better for pop BUT Madonna and MJ did set a new path forward for pop albums regarding what was possible. And they were acclaimed for it. What's different now is that you have critics like pitchfork falling over themselves to review the latest pop crap and taking it seriously. The pitchfork of the 90s or 00s would have never taken the latest Beyonce or Ariana album seriously. And the general public also seems to be taking pop more seriously than it was decades ago. Look at how people act like Taylor and Cardi B are such bold artists. It's BS.

[quote] When you look at other artists with 16 year-careers like Madonna’s “Ray of Light”, Beyoncé’s “Lemonade”,

“Lemonade” was a pile of garbage.

R87, Britney and Christina and NSYNC were treated seriously. The 2000s was the beginning of the end.

[quote] She's a great storyteller that many people relate to.

🤣

She is definitely not beautiful but the girl is talented. I’ve never bought an album of hers but some of her songs are dam good.

R87 Beyoncé is making some great albums. Lauryn Hill level albums. Varied, a new concept and production sound each time. You are just pretentious as fuck and remember a time when all the r&b divas with actual talent made middle brow shit and all the ones with non raw talent, especially vocally, made excellent stuff because they hired the best songwriters and producers and they had vision. I don’t even get your argument. Pitchfork rated Janet Jackson and Mary J Blige 90s albums very high.

She should do as few interviews as possible. She gives every impression of being completely humorless and unlikable.

Our national treasure.

"Ticket sales for Swift's concerts have been so explosive, one Federal Reserve office said, the pop superstar is helping fuel the national tourism industry...."

WHY???????

Her music is not to my taste, although I thought Anti-Hero was a great pop song.

I don't buy her albums or concert tickets or waste time wondering why she appeals to others.

People like what they like.

R33, I am NO Taylor Swift fan, but her last hit single has a chorus that says:

"Hi. It's me. I'm the problem, it's me."

So exactly the opposite of what you posited.

R87 Music magazines, including Billboard and their rules, sold out to Twitter. The only people that pays attention to music critics and publications are “crazy stans” who use it to validate / celebrate their artist. So of course Pitchfork is going to praise Beyonce and Taylor’s ass cause their fans are the only ones who pay attention to them.

I think she’s the “safe” white girl for white conservative parents and their daughters. Even though Taylor acts like a ho with a new serious “boyfriend” every few months.

R33 demonstrates how out of touch, uninformed and completely clueless most elder DLers are about people under 40.

[quote] Her sense of style and fashions are generally tragic.

R98 So how do you explain the bad reviews given to their contemporaries. Pick and choosing of facts huh. Sometimes the most simple explanation is the truth. Beyoncé and Taylor Swift are wildly popular because they make good music. Someone making bad music can become wildly popular but rarely do they maintain so for 20 yrs.

R92, you realize that Pithcfork rated those Janet Jackson albums relatively recently right? That happened in the past 10 years or so. And why are you bringing Mary J Blige into this? She's not even a pop artist!

[quote] Beyoncé is making some great albums. Lauryn Hill level albums.

LMFAO! No. Lauryn may be a nut now but nothing Beyonce did will ever approach The Miseducation album. Or The Fugees debut.

I don't mind her songs but I wish someone else sang them. She has bitchface; an anonymous, bland voice that sounds almost computer-generated; and no stage presence or charisma.

Maybe she's a robot?

Here’s a profile of Taylor Swift’s fan base. It’s not little girls.

R106, Taylor first hit it big in 2007 or so, so the people who are listening to her now as adults are more than likely people who were kids/teens at the time.

[quote] She’s like if Madonna made “True Blue” over and over and over again for 20 years.

This is so true. I wonder when Taylor will start making singles for adults?

R104 Lemonade did. And if you didn’t bother to actually listen to the album then you can’t compare.

The Queen can literally sing any genre, country music included. She sings this country song better than Taylor sings any country or pop song for that matter. Perhaps not greatest vocalist but the best singer of all time.

R99 Every few months? She dated that Brit actor for 5 years. You are talking shit.

[quote] The Queen can literally sing any genre, country music included. She sings this country song better than Taylor sings any country or pop song for that matter. Perhaps not greatest vocalist but the best singer of all time.

Has Janbot been laying eggs on DL?

Beyonce's stuff is just all over the place and out of control, weirdly aggressive and unpleasant. She's never developed a style or persona, and I don't think she's very bright (thus the abandoned movie career).

She may still put out The Album, but she needs to let go and let some producer produce an Adele-like album for her, or no one is going to remember a single thing she did after "All The Single Ladies".

R112 It’s true. People just hate in Beyonce because she has never become a train wreck and for good portion was seen as goodie goodie. The women is vocally flawless with soul.

R113 All her albums have been critically acclaimed since the album Put a Ring on it was released. Lemonade was literally the best selling album of 2016 and garnered all type of awards. The Queen is thinking long term legacy not flash in the pan. Don’t hurt yourself with the hate.

Name me one non bright person who became a millionaire that was not born into money or hit the lottery. I certainly don’t know any. Those I know personally aren’t as famous as Beyoncé but they are all bright.

Middle of the road, mediocre, overexposed, over popular,

[quote] The women is vocally flawless with soul.

That's overstating it but we get your point, and I agree Bey is fabulous.

[quote] Whereas Taylor Swift has been able to remain more “pure” and not have to touch black / hip-hop culture or even gay culture to succeed. She has been able to remain a vanilla white pop singer and I think the white girls who don’t like blacks and gays find relatability.

Taylor's music has been hit with the tar brush a few times and her target audience loved it.

Tar brush? What in the 1930s hell?

A lot of straight women love her but she doesn't have much of a gay following compared to some other female solo artists

Maybe because she's dull and vanilla and isn't fun or campy

R121, apparently that's what a lot of younger gays like. Vanilla.

Poo you don’t know anything! 💩

She is the epitome of vanilla. Sometimes plain vanilla can be exactly what one wants. Sometimes it can be jazzed up with rainbow sprinkles.

I think she’s pretty and puts on a great concert

I don't like Taylor. But I happen to know a bit about her music and her style evolves. For example she cut two "cottagecore" albums during covid.

I'm shocked no one has mentioned me!

I don't get her appeal either

I get her appeal as a songwriter. She can write a catchy pop song, and I respect that. I don’t get her appeal as a singer tho. Her voice is nothing special imo.

I only found her interesting when she did country music. Ever since she switched to pop it’s been eh.

I feel that Taylor Swift is a true case of sensationalism. She is the Elvis of the 2020s — the ultimate female Elvis. When journalists compare her to Beatlemania, I cannot agree with them. The Beatles were genuinely great, their music is timeless and will always be good. I don't think "Teardrops on My Guitar" or "Never Getting Back Together" are at exactly the same level of musical excellence as any of the Beatles' songs, even the B-list songs. One random person they interviewed on my local news for the tickets said "I don't care, I just WANT TO BE THERE." Not because of the music, but because they want to show off.

It's a solid white congregation of people who attend as well. The Swiftie girl is not going because she listens carefully to her music, it's because Taylor is eye candy. Several Swiftie girls I knew were usually overweight, homely, and honestly had no real ear for music. People listen to music with their eyes these days, the video is much more important than the song. It's also known that Taylor released a series of 4? vinyl albums just so people could hang them on the wall as art. Not to actually open or listen to the album.

R131, the weird thing is that Taylor is actually the most global female artist ever. She is insanely popular throughout Asia. In all parts. It's insane. So she appeals strongly to white Americans but is also popular elsewhere. I agree with you though, NO comparison to Beatlemania at all. The Beatles have stood the test of time, Taylor....well, I doubt it.

I’m guessing you haven’t been publicly jilted by 17 different men, OP.

We have a terrible landscape for pop singers at the moment. Tay is unappealing to me because she's just blah, Bayonce screams and can't find a note and Adele screeches like a banshee. I'm looking for new faces.

"It's got a good beat and you can dance to it"

--For all of this high brow DL analysis it basically comes down to this.

Yeah she's just boring. I wouldn't begrudge her moderate success, but how she's got so popular is a mystery.

I think part of it's that the masses do actually quite like banality, but also I think there's a bit of an Emperor's New Clothes effect where people almost don't want to admit to finding her bland, lest they be ostracised.

I think the same about Adele. She's undoubtedly got a strong voice, but her music all sounds the same. How she can still be so popular, despite churning out albums that sound identical, is beyond me. Plus she was initially loved for being fat and down to earth, but now she's skinny and part of the Hollywood elite. Yet she's still adored. Never understood it.

Taylor's songs have 0 beat and you cannot dance to them.

Elvis had black fans in real time before his reputation was ruined in the community because of that racist fake shoe shining quote was attributed to him and the Public Enemy song.

I think of her as a white Mary J Blige. Confessional lyrics that speaks to a subset of women very well. Taylor has really made the most out of this lane.

Taylor is a normal chick. She looks like Barbie and a lot of people relate to her catchy songs. Plus she doesn't shove her politics down people's throats.

She looks like Barbie because she's had rhinoplasty, a brow lift and cheek implants.

Just like Frank Sinatra. Had a formula and was for white people mostly. I bet the OP can find lots of superstars he feels do not rate to be superstars.

[quote] I think of her as a white Mary J Blige. Confessional lyrics that speaks to a subset of women very well. Taylor has really made the most out of this lane.

I've never listened to any of her music. How does she rate compared to me?

It's not Vanilla, she is the sound of Cake Flavor

Cake Batter Flavor, sorry

R141, how do you know envious one?

R106 Well just as I expected.

Suburban whites. I don’t believe her fanbase is actually split between genders. The white suburban men listen to her cause their girlfriends do. That’s why the poll is close to being even.

I don’t know any whites that like her but I’m also friends with city whites who like Drake and don’t understand Taylor Swift either.

I know two white millennial women who are massive TS fans. I *think* I understand their obsession with TS.

Both women have always been sort of mean girls. They have this queen bee mentality like everyone’s world should revolve around their needs and their needs ONLY.

When they don’t get their way, they view themselves as victims. They have no self awareness whatsoever and never take into consideration other people’s feelings.

Both of these women are well into adulthood but their social media posts haven’t changed much since they were 15 or so.

I think TS appeals to women who never outgrew adolescence.

TS has always struck me as a mean girl who views herself as a perpetual victim. Her fans relate to that.

I hope that answers your question, OP.

R148 She is what they aspire to be or who they are. Phony ass mean girls who think they’re princesses.

It makes sense she’s popular in Asia cause they’re the same way.

I mean she’s almost like Ayumi Hamasaki.

Not a "fan", but she doesn't bother me, either. She gives her audience what they want and evolves just enough to stay with the times. Her target demo doesn't seem the type to desire or appreciate a more conceptual album, which is fine. We're talking pop music here, none of these artists are writing symphonies.

[R149] When I was a baby gay, I was a TS fan for a brief time when I about 15-16, so I somewhat understand her appeal.

As I matured, I realized that all of her songs are the same variation of “I like a boy but he doesn’t like me back! Whhaaa!!!” It became tiresome.

There will always be a market for that kind of music, but I never thought that TS would be making the same music in her 30s and I never thought anyone older than 19 would still pay attention to her.

I think TS fans are female versions of incels. They reek of entitlement. They’ve been told by their parents that they are princesses their whole lives. When they find out life is not a fairytale, instead of accepting it and moving on, they pout about it.

I blame this problem on pop radio catering to teens only since the late 90s. “Adult contemporary” used to be an actual music genre that no longer exists. I mostly listen to music from the 1960s-early 1990s for that reason.

Any adult who listens to mainstream radio has arrested development.

Sorry for the rant, I am fascinated by TS and her weird fans.

She’s no Whigfield.

[quote] She’s no Whigfield.

She's not even a Patsy Kensit.

She's the new Mariah Carey and I could never stand that bitch either. Pop culture needs these types.

Oh no. White women like a singer.

[quote] Oh no. White women like a singer.

r155 lol

I suppose being absolutely non-offensive in an era where everybody is quickly offended and itching for a fight is why Taylor Swift remains such a hit.

I Drank Tonight And It Wasn't Fun Like It Used To Be

I feel "meh"

I was out all night.

Oops that was supposed to be a thread! Sorry Taylor. You're "meh" too.

Let’s be a Taylor Swift fan. I’m the lack of taste!

I wonder what the summer concert deluge would have been like had Madonna stayed with her original Celebration tour schedule.

I also look to the staging to see what they've done to set themselves apart from each other. Beyonce's looks a bit sci-fi/play station, Katy Parry (if she were touring) would no doubt be cartoony and over the top/fun props, Taylor seems to rely on big set pieces that back up the song while sheathed in a baton twirlers outfit, etc.

And Madonna? My prediction was that it would include lots of AI holograms.

[quote] And Madonna? My prediction was that it would include lots of AI holograms.

Madonna will have to be especially creative. She basically set the bar for modern female performers. She no longer sings live and she can't really dance, so she has to hit us with something new and original to rate with what those new girls with huge production budgets are doing. Her tour probably requires a year or so to plan properly.

R138, Chuck D did a similar thing with Tracy Chapman. This is what he said about Tracy Chapman

[quote] Black people cannot feel Tracy Chapman, if they got beat over the head with it 35,000 times.”

Who chokes on their own vomit THESE days?

Patsy Kensit had the hardest working twat in show biz - started with a keyboard player in Big Audio Dynamite, then to Jim Kerr of Simple Minds and then Liam Gallagher of Oasis.

If you're gonna go for slights, Tara Kemp or Stacy Earl are better disses.

I was talking to a friend at the gym - 50 year old Marine sergeant who went with his 21 year old son to see her, and he just went on and on about how she is basically the female Jesus Christ. When I said I have never heard her (I have not), and would not know her if she walked up to me and slapped her breasts in my face, he about stroked out. I might as well have said I still have dial up internet.

White Girl Beyonce

Beyonce is also overrated beyond her pedestrian good looks

Every once in a while a song will strike me, and like some OCD lunatic, I'll listen to it on repeat...over and over and over and over. Then, I'm over it.

For some reason that I cannot fathom, Taylor Swift's song The Archer has become such an obsession. Even weirder, it's this version that is a slightly remixed version - and when I say slightly, I mean SLIGHTLY.

I have never liked her songs previously, nor do I find her particularly appealing beyond the usual DL discussions of her "bad" luck with men.

I agree with you, OP.

But I don't really care if people find her appealing.

I happen to think Smallville is one of the greatest dramas ever on TV but I don't expect others to feel the same way.

Lex's near homoerotic crush on Clark. The angst knowing that Lana and Clark weren't ever going to get together. Martha's warmth. Jonathan's stern but loving hot daddy-ness. That season we had Jensen and his pouty lips.

Tom Welling's beauty and passable acting. Erica Durrance is my favorite Lois Lane after Kidder. The sultry voice of Dr. Helen Bryce Luthor (Emmanuelle Vaugier). Hotties Alan Ritchson and Justin Hartley being added later.

Whiny know it all Chloe was a scene killer but you can't have everything.

I actually liked Beyoncé’s concert based on the footage I saw. She’s getting back to her club dance roots which is good.

Beyoncé is best when she doesn’t take herself too seriously. She actually has a fun personality when she lets it shine through.

I don’t think her more political songs will age well.

[quote]White Girl Beyonce

r167 I really think Swift is more like the white Mariah Carey. Beyonce has more a niche audience. And frankly many straights and many whites cannot stand her, or they don't relate and don't even know what songs she sings. Beyonce is not mega.

It looks like Swift has now risen to the mega level where Carey resides.

I hate all three - Carey, Beyonce & Swift. I'm just being a neutral observer here.

[quote]I hate all three - Carey, Beyonce & Swift. I'm just being a neutral observer here.

None of them are interesting enough to hate although I will admit that I do hate the "Queen Bey" stans who go batshit crazy if you say anything within 100 miles of negative regarding anything have to do with anything remotely related to her.

r172 Yeah, hate is too strong a word. I'm being catty.

But I agree, I hate that so many gays are trying to make a Beyonce a diva. She's a minor player. Her cult is annoying.

[quote] I hate all three - Carey, Beyonce & Swift. I'm just being a neutral observer here.

Beyonce has 32 Grammy awards, that's more than Mariah Carey, Janet Jackson, Madonna and Taylor Swift COMBINED. Her current tour will gross over $1 billion dollars. All this and she is just 42 years old. She occupies a remarkable and unprecedented place in popular culture. She is the most MEGA performer of our time, and it would be apparent to even a neutral observer such as myself.

[quote] But I agree, I hate that so many gays are trying to make a Beyonce a diva. She's a minor player. Her cult is annoying.

Ridiculous! It is OK not to like her but she is a singularly successful performer and undoubtedly a "diva." She is not a "minor player" by any reasonable objective measure. Every major artist has a cult of some sort and they're all annoying. I am annoyed by the efforts of those who claim to be indifferent to diminish what is in every regard the phenomenal achievements of an artist who arguably has no peer.

^There's one now. Stay annoyed., dear.

[quote] ^There's one now. Stay annoyed., dear.

I shall, cuntress.

[quote] Beyonce has 32 Grammy awards, that's more than Mariah Carey, Janet Jackson, Madonna and Taylor Swift COMBINED.

r174 r175 But this goes to what I was saying about her cult. Yeah, she caterwauls and she sells hits.

But seriously, she's won more grammys than Mariah Carey, Janet Jackson & Madonna? I believe you, but that shows how meaningless is this whole Beyonce cult. No one claims she's as important an artist as Mariah Carey, Janet Jackson or Madonna.

This thing has cult written allover it.

Ask a straight white friend if they know any songs by Beyonce. You'll get a blank stare.

I am 44. I did like the song Style and (Something called ,,Trouble??) but thats because I was in love with a straight guy I was friends with a decade ago now.. Long story..

I am floored by this bitch's longevity and popularity.

[quote] Ask a straight white friend if they know any songs by Beyonce. You'll get a blank stare.

Regarding Beyonce -- it's generational. My millennial and Gen Z acquaintances and colleagues of every race, color and creed regard Beyonce as THE star of their time. Her Renaissance tour is coming to my town in two weeks and everyone is abuzz. Could it be a blue state, cosmopolitan big city thing? Maybe. I don't hear as much chatter about TSwift but I'm too old to actually be "in" their conversation.

I am mid-50s. My peer group, of all colors, are like "she's fine but I ain't paying $500 to see her." I attended her show a few weeks ago, almost begrudgingly, as a birthday gift to someone. I was stunned by how good it was and how much I enjoyed it. I appreciate that she has pursued a scandal-free career as a recording artist and performer for nearly 30 years with such a remarkable work ethic and has maintained extremely high performance standards -- no nervous breakdowns, no "Sex" books, no psychotic breaks, no addiction issues, etc.

P.S. I only talk to my straight white friends about work...Zzzzzzz

r180 Well my nieces and my nephews are millennial and Z and mostly straight and white (not all but most). I'm guessing my straight teenage nephew will say GTFO if I ask him about Beyonce. I'm sure kids with more alternative tastes turn their noses up at her.

Bland. Blah.

I agree with OP. I personally find her incredibly boring and not intriguing in any way Though, it doesn't really surprise me that she has a following. It's not like anyone who has massive success is universally seen as a great artist.

I asked my two nephews (18, 21) who the big "legendary" female pop stars were according to them. They said Beyonce, Lady Gaga and Madonna. But that they didn't really like any of the three. Only knew a few songs from each. But those are the Big Names to them.

I also thought it was funny that think of Taylor as their age. Which is weird. But I guess it's because her songs are heard everywhere still. Where as Beyonce and Gaga songs aren't so much anymore. Oh, they also said they hated Taylor.

I realize this means nothing, but I here it is regardless.

[quote] I asked my two nephews (18, 21) who the big "legendary" female pop stars were according to them. They said Beyonce, Lady Gaga and Madonna. But that they didn't really like any of the three. Only knew a few songs from each. But those are the Big Names to them.

r184 Sounds about right. Hip kids don't listen to the major pop acts. When I was that age I wouldn't be caught dead listening to any top 40.

Why is she unappealing? ZERO dance music. Refuses to do it. I've seen young people dancing to TS songs but its not actually traditional pop dance stuff.

[quote]Beyonce has 32 Grammy awards, that's more than Mariah Carey, Janet Jackson, Madonna and Taylor Swift COMBINED. Her current tour will gross over $1 billion dollars. All this and she is just 42 years old. She occupies a remarkable and unprecedented place in popular culture. She is the most MEGA performer of our time, and it would be apparent to even a neutral observer such as myself.

Proves my point about the "Queen Bey" stans.

R169, Smallville was incredible the first three seasons and then it gradually got worse as it went on. Too many seasons and too much Lana crying.

[quote] Beyonce has 32 Grammy awards, that's more than Mariah Carey, Janet Jackson, Madonna and Taylor Swift COMBINED.

Who cares?

[quote] Who cares?

It only matters to those who want to diminish and dismiss her. It enrages them, in fact. I don't think most of these new hookers deserve Grammys. It certainly isn't the mark of prestige it was when Ella, Aretha, Dionne, Barbra, Bette, Natalie, Roberta or Whitney were winning them. Or when Diana Ross and Dusty Springfield were not. However, it is still an award whose voting body is comprised of artists, musicians, songwriters and producers -- so it's not a People's Choice award. Beyonce is universally regarded as a MAJOR artist. That universe just doesn't include Datalounge.

On the subject of Taylor Swift, I feel about her the way others might regard Beyonce. She has won the Album of the Year Grammy THREE times. I get that she's supposed to be a singer, songwriter but I can only name one of her songs -- the about never ever getting back together. It is inconceivable that she has more record sales and career accolades than Joni Mitchell, Carly Simon, Laura Nyro, Carole King, Stevie Nicks and Melissa Manchester. I only care to the extent that any of it might make her appear to be -- in any way -- an artist in the league of a Joni Mitchell or a Laura Nyro.

[quote]It only matters to those who want to diminish and dismiss her. It enrages them, in fact.

Just as ignoring it enrages the Queen Bey stans who use it to justify her so-called "greatness."

The "Queen Bey" stans will continue to whine whenever she loses album of the year.

Her music is bland and boring, but I have a lot of respect for her. Her heart is in the right place. Good for her for all she's accomplished.

Swift and Beyonce are PR machines. You're supposed to like them.

Carey had talent and looks and when those went away she had scandals. Same witg Whitneyz

Janet was a Jackson.

Madonna, well know about her.

Swift and Beyonce are so boring and predictable. Every release is another version of their prototype. Zzzzzzz.

r186 I've seen Taylor "dance" and that's reason enough for her to avoid that genre like the plague. She moves like she suffered a head injury which resulted in mobility issues.