Russian military attacks Russian military, part 2

But we tasted like borscht!

Russian expert Julia Ioffe: "The long and short of it, Putin won."

IOW, Russians are used to chaos and will keep on shrugging it off.

The pyrrhic win is mine!

Ioffe is right - between Putin and Prigozhin, there's very little difference. Neither show any interest in developing Russia to improve the lives of ordinary Russians. Both are psychopaths or sociopaths. Both are hugely corrupt. Both want to conscript Russians to fight in Ukraine. It's no choice.

On to Moldova!

Any truth to the rumors that Roseanne Barr is taking command of the Russian military?

I just saw this blurb in the DM. I know. But it clarified something for me. I was getting Surovikin and Shoigu confused. this explains a lot.

" It had been reported that General Sergei 'Armageddon' Surovikin (left) was possibly under interrogation over a plot to oust defence minister Sergei Shoigu and had advance knowledge of the weekend armed revolt which threatened Vladimir Putin 's regime. Surovikin, 56, is the second-in-command of the Russian armed forces. He has known links to 'coup leader' Yevgeny Prigozhin , the Wagner mercenary (right) army chief. US officials briefed on American intelligence said a top Russian general had advance knowledge of Prigozhin's plans to rebel against Shoigu and chief of the armed forces General Valery Gerasimov over failings in the war against Ukraine, The New York Times reports. Sources within the Defence Department reportedly said Surovikin had been arrested, the Moscow Times later reported. 'Apparently he [Surovikin] chose the side [of Prigozhin during the rebellion] and they grabbed him by the balls,' one source said."

Looks like Putin is cleaning house. He discovered and is foiling a plot. We'll see.

Shoigu is a bureaucrat who has never served in the military. He's valued mainly for his loyalty, his lack of charisma and ethnic minority status (Russians are racist and unlikely to accept one as their leader). Surovikin is the real deal, someone who has served in the military. A very brutal and cruel commander. No doubt a lot more dangerous than Shoigu.

Bloomberg and other news outlets are saying that the general in charge of the war e ffort in Ukraine has "disappeared" (he wascalled back to Moscow.

Here's the story. And Putin actually went out and was greeting people and taking selfies yesterday. To show how cool he is.

[quote]And [bold]Putin's double[/bold] actually went out and was greeting people and taking selfies yesterday. To show how cool he is.

Fixed your typo, hon. You really think Uncle Vlad's having interactions with real Russians after this clusterfuck?

I'm not buying that this is over.

Nobody is, r12. We’re all just waiting for the other shoe to drop because we know it will.

Yup r13. The only question is whose head will it drop on.

OK. So to recap: a summarized history of Russia invading Ukraine. Very intimidating assemblage on the border, than INVASION. And the media is all blah blah blah about that "formidable" (their word not mine) Russian Army. Putin is home spinning like a motherfucker: We were forced to invade, blah blah blah." and for the most part the Russian people bought his line.

But then, ta dah! Zelensky enters the stage. He's passionate, defiant, and wonderful at theater! The world falls in love. Even better, his army is defending their homeland from Russian aggression. And his generals and his soldiers are dedicated, determined, and....smart. They fight back and miraculously, they make progress. They also expose the ruthless, vicious attacks of Russian troops on civilians. Bombing apartments and schools.

NATO backs Zelensky. The media loves him. His people love him. Putin glowers and seethes as his tanks break down, run out of fuel, his soldiers surrender, and beg for food. And he starts losing battle...and generals. Lots of his commanders are getting wiped out in the field. His army is turning to shit. Prigozhin and his goons set out to assassinate Zelensky. They fail, and get exposed.

The generals start fighting among themselves. Everyone is accusing everyone of being a fuck up. Putin is pissed. The jails have been emptied, the young men are pulled off the streets and "drafted" into service with very little training, and equipment that hasn't seen action since WW 2. Seriously.

So finally Prigozhin and a couple Russian generals, decide they are going to march on Moscow to demand Putin fire his ministry of defense. Lots of finger pointing and name calling ensues. Suddenly, Prigozhin halts his march and seeks refuge in Belarus with another illegitimate thug.

Now, suddenly a couple of the generals who sided with Prigozhin have disappeared "for questioning" and it looks like Putin stopped a coup and Prigozhin is in the shitter, waiting for his cup of poisoned tea. Putin wants the world to see that he is dealing with his traitors, and he's fine. He sends his regards.

If there's another shoe to drop the only thing I can think of is that Prigozhin gets executed, and there's some kind of uprising. I don't see Putin or Prigozhin getting out of this alive.

Why, R15, you're a regular Thucydides redivivus!

R15, as excellent a summary as I’ve ever read.

Well you can put on a tin hat with me and anticipate Prigozhin leading the triumphant Belarus army into Moscow as Lukashenko realizes he’d really like to become the Emperor of the two Russias and get off the sanctions list after making a deal with China and Kazakhstan to carve up the Eastern part of the country.

R16, I always thought Thucydides was way to wordy in discussing the wars.

Good recap, R15. So we still wonder what was the trigger that made Prigozhin stop the march to Russia? If your narrative is true, then it would fit that Putin and his minion threatened to kill Prigozhin's - and the generals' - families.

How can the Russian populace be the only defenders of this war? Why can't the world get through to them (using the best social media platforms, propaganda, shaming campaign) that Putin's invasion was just plain wrong and begin laying the seeds of discontent. Only then will there be enough pressure on Puti to withdraw.

R21 in a police state, under an authoritarian regime, the state controls the news. They decide what to tell people. I think the war has lasted so much longer than Putin expected, that the truth has finally slowly been seeping into the consciousness. Putin still enjoys a level of popularity even though life is rough for the average person in Russia. And the fact that they were literally forcing young men to join the military and fight in Ukraine had an impact. I wish I had some hard data or a reliable news report about whether or not the people are aware of the truth or if they still believe Ukraine is the bad guy. Would also love to know the real number as far as Putin's popularity goes.

R18 I will happily put on a tin hat and join you. Latest news reports and satellite images show a military build up in Belarus, and reports are that Lukashenko and Prigozhin are rebuilding the Wagner Group's military installations.

[quote] Putin still enjoys a level of popularity even though life is rough for the average person in Russia.

That's the problem with tightly controlling public opinion and never allowing dissent. We, and he, have no idea how popular Putin actually is in Russia. The fact that nobody gave fuck one when a bunch of mercenaries tried a coup against him, and nobody apparently felt like doing shit about it as the troops were on their way to Moscow, shows his popularity might just be a little delusional.

R23 Oooh some All About Eve realness from from Putin’s frenemy next door.

It's mostly the older Soviet generation of vatniks and babushkas who still watch state TV...much like our own brainwashed FOX-loving boomers. Not much can be done, except wait for them to die out. Their propaganda has gotten to absurd North Korea levels with the TV anchor gushing over Putin's "rockstar" treatment as he was mobbed by fans in Dagestan just a day or two after the mutiny. No explanation of why he suddenly went to Dagestan or what else he did there or how everyone knew he was coming (seems unbelievable it was the real Putin anyway). It's getting weirder there by the day.

News reports are that when Prigozhin was on his way to Moscow, Putin and " other high gov't officials" headed to Kazakstan or Kajikistan, one of those "K's" and were denied entry into their airspace because "they did not wish to become involved in another country's internal problems. "

r20 money, lots and lots of money to stop him. It's always about the money. Amazing how they never, ever have enough.

Kazakhstan has been all “I don’t know her” to Putin since this mess started.

The Baikonur cosmodrome is right in the middle of Kazakhstan. I wonder if the Russians can still access it.

Well, money, sure r28, definitely got a big payoff, but still, Priggy was happily looting away all over the world, so he kind of had money. I think it was fear, the dog that suddenly realized he was about to catch the car, and what the fuck does he do with it? Or maybe just good old fashioned panic when the prized targets slipped away. Now, what's this shit about?

Unfortunately, coups tend to be an all or nothing proposition. Whatever money he's sitting on right now will probably just be extorted by his brand new BFF Lukashenko, and before long Priggy will be hit by a rock or fall out a window.

R31 the dog and the car analogy fits this to a tee.

It struck me that Zelensky and his wife are professional comedians, indeed among Ukraine's most prominent ones. DL, can you IMAGINE the zingers we've all missed during the past week because he has to remain statesmanlike in his public comments?

R33…🙄🙄🙄🙄

Prigozhin apparently just shut down the Wagner group....and his troll farms.

Has anybody noticed a drastic dip in trollish behavior?

I don't believe it. R35, where did you see that? Those troll farms were really effective. And cheap to run, too. And the Wagner Group is very active in Africa. Maybe Putin cut off the funding?

I've read that they were transferred to someone else so let's wait and see.

Prigozhin is a typical Russian thug-turned-oligarch who carried a sledge hammer. I just can’t picture him conceiving and running the Internet Research Agency troll farm.

Prigozhin has worn a lot of different hats in his lifetime. He even wrote and illustrated a children's book for his kids. The guy is pure evil, but I find him much more complex and interesting than Putin.

Children's book author

Hot dog vendor

Putin's chef

Inventor of the troll farm

Genocidal thug.

Quite the resume there.

What I don't understand is why is he still even alive? I've been continually shocked for months that Putin allowed him to openly and aggressively criticize the military. Then Putin allows him to walk away from an actual armed insurrection on Russia. Why is Putin giving him a pass? That said, maybe he's already dead or will be before the end of the year.

R41, it’s possible that Putin isn’t sure of how many friends in high places Prigozhin has. Or he does know, and that’s why he can’t act. Prigozhin seems to have been deeply embedded in the Russian military and intelligence services. After all, everyone in the world intelligence community seemed to know that this was going to happen except, oddly enough, Putin.

No updates on Surovikin? They are probably busy torturing him for now.

No word from both Surovikin and Prigozhin...

One factor for Putin may be their popularity with the troops, which would make it hard to kill them, I suppose.

OK. Yes the Troll farms are gone. (Cough.) IMO this means they are no longer under Prigozhin's control, because I don't see something as effective as the troll farms going away. This is the type of thing Putin loves, so maybe he will resurrect them under new management. And the other thing I saw this morning is that Lukashenko has asked Wagner Group to train his own army. Interesting. IMO Putin is a dead man walking. Because there is no way he will accept defeat in Ukraine. He has no choice but to keep escalating and I don't see an exit for him that will save face. Does anyone here care to speculate on how the hell Putin resolves the Ukraine conflict?

[quote]Does anyone here care to speculate on how the hell Putin resolves the Ukraine conflict?

I'll take "eats a bullet in the bunker" for $200, Alex.

I'm thinking he realizes he is a dead man walking and negotiates stepping down, relinquishing power and leaving for his vast estate. He will keep his security guys and protect his family...and his wealth. Although I'm sure he would happily use some of that wealth to negotiate his survival. Now that would be the reasonable thing to do. My guess is that they;re looking for his successor. And if guys even half as bad as Lukashenko and Prigozhin are lurking in the wings, plotting, he'd be smart to do it himself. Find someone who will succeed him but not be his puppet . Someone who will not assassinate him. LOL!

R478, the best spin on this would be to have Putin announce he is ill, and stepping down. Health issues would soften everything. He needs to avoid a civil war. He needs to avoid it because all his wealth, his holdings and those of his oligarchs is in jeopardy. He needs to hand pick his successor for the same reason. It's better to walk out the front door, retaining your allies and admirers, than to be dropped from a window in the midst of a civil conflict. He can make that choice. And he can also get rid of Prigozhin and Lukashenko if necessary. Lukashenko is a snake and if it's true he now has nuclear warheads he's a dangerous man.

R48 is R47. Sorry I messed up the numbers.

[quote]Does anyone here care to speculate on how the hell Putin resolves the Ukraine conflict?

This is a bad sign....

American special nuclear monitoring aircraft WC-135R Constant Phoenix arrived in Europe to take samples of atmospheric air and detect radioactive emissions.

[QUOTE] I don't see an exit for him that will save face. Does anyone here care to speculate on how the hell Putin resolves the Ukraine conflict?

Seriously, all Putin has to do is instruct all his troll farms, propagandists and officials to spin leaving the Ukraine war and Russians would accept it outside of a small minority of far right nationalists. Most Russians don't really give a shit about the Ukraine war either way.

BUT that's not Putin - he genuinely believes in the war. He can't let go of it. He's a zealot.

Prigozhin looks like he used to live under a bridge and harass anyone who wanted to cross.

R52- He looks like he would push a stranger off of a cliff just for fun.

so, Prigozhin has disappeared. Surprise!

So Putin only allowed him to live long enough in order to take over Prigozhins vast criminal network enterprise? Putin had no choice except to kill him. Allowing him to live would have been signing his own death warrant. So many unanswered questions about this entire event that will never be answered.

Putin is his business partner, so keep that in mind

R56- Maybe he allowed him to live if he dsappears into hiding? Honestly, I feel that Prigozhin was more valuable to the Russian oligarchs/mafia than Putin is.

R54 and RadarOnline has the scoop!

Allegedly, he released a new audio message today.

According to Ukraine, Putin has ordered the FSB to kill Prigozhin. This is the same FSB that has screwed up basic intelligence on Ukraine. Anything could happen.

Prigozhin's fine! He sends his love!

He posted on Telegram. how do we know it was him?

R61- I don't believe we can be sure.

A group of Russian students waves Wagner flags and sings nationalist songs during the graduation party in Moscow this weekend. Funnily enough, siding with Wagner is now also a protest, since state media have started a propaganda campaign against Putin's former private army.

R63- That sounds rather ominous for Putin, one would think.

The definition of 'eating their own'.

Civil war? The elites against the common folk?

No, there isn't going to be a civil war. The nationalists are a minority. Most Russians including most of the elite don't want civil war and will just shrug their shoulders at anything they can. It's a sick culture.

For what it's worth, here is my take on the Putin/Prigozhin kurfuffle:

Prigozhin and the Wagner Group has basically been serving as Putin's Praetorian Guard (q.v.) for over a decade. Prigozhin and his gang have been doing all the Defenestration and Poisoning at Putin's behest. But now that Prigozhin/Wagner have "Stated their boundaries", there is no one left in Putin's cadre to take Prigozhin out.

In the words of Juvenale: Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

I wonder why Prigozhin abruptly stopped the coup? He was so close and seemingly no one was about to stop him.

[quote]Prigozhin and the Wagner Group has basically been serving as Putin's Praetorian Guard (q.v.) for over a decade. Prigozhin and his gang have been doing all the Defenestration and Poisoning at Putin's behest.

Putin's praetorian guard is actually Rosgvardiya. And it's the FSB (previously the KGB) who does the defenestrations and poisonings.

What Wagner was about was giving plausible deniability to all the war crimes and foreign interference they committed. 'It's a private army!' But now all pretence is gone and Putin admits that the state funded them.

Shouldn't the US officially declare them a state sponsor of terrorism now?

The US has already sanctioned Wagner and companies linked to them.

[quote]I wonder why Prigozhin abruptly stopped the coup? He was so close and seemingly no one was about to stop him.

Because you can't take and hold Russia with 8k men. It really is as simple as that. Yes, he had a good run but Shoigu and Gerasimov had disappeared and what more could he really do? He gambled that it would pressure Putin into getting rid of them but lost.

R73- He truly has lost. When you take a shot at the king you'd better not miss. He should known he would fail.

Yeah, I don't understand why he thought it would work at all. One of the most bizarre things I've seen. But never underestimate people doing irrational things because of their emotional reactions. Reading in between the lines Putin simply wasn't even picking up the phone to him so Prigozhin was trying to communicate with him with publicity plus he really HATED the MoD for not giving Wagner all the ammo. He was also right there on the frontlines seeing hundreds of dead bodies.

R75- I would imagine when Putin no longer takes your calls you think he may be plotting to have you thrown from highrise building or sending an assassin to poison your underwear.

None of it makes sense.

I think, in Putin's Russia, the key to keeping power, is to make your people wealthy, but to also be their business partners. They live like kings, but still know you can end all of it in the blink of an eye. The huge flaw in that strategy is the Wagner Group. How Putin allowed Prigozhin to grow wealthy, maintain his own private army, and his tentacles reaching into the African Continent, the Middle East, and other shit, is a mystery. It almost seems that Putin hasn't been as sharp as he used to be and was listening to really bad advice about Ukraine, and not keeping a closer eye on guys like Prigozhin. I think Putin is fucked. He ought to make a deal and step down while he can. It's gonna end badly for him if he doesn't. No matter what he does to the Wagner Group.

R77- I am beginning to believe that Putin's control of Russia has been propaganda and others actually have the control whilst he has only been a figure head.

Except that Prigozhin had the only effective operation in Ukraine (supposedly). The regular army was incompetent and corrupt. Folding Wagner troops into it isn’t suddenly going to make it more effective. In another month will we see Shoigu and Gerasimov gone and Prigozhin recalled from exile?

R80- I said yesterday that I believe Prigozhin is much more valuable to the oligarchy than Putin at this point. His internet troll farm , diamond mines, and military make him too valuable to killsbd that is why I feel he hadn't been killed. I truly do t believe Putin has the final say in that decision.

Do not believe ^

R81 Sorry but I don't agree. The oligarchy has no real power in Russia. And most of them don't want the war privately because it hurts their business and financial interests. There was a leaked phone call between two of them complaining about how stupid the war is while one or two have even openly condemned it.

It's Putin who has the real power and who is calling the shots. Putin controls the army, his private guard and the FSB. The oligarchs with the exception of Prigozhin don't have their own militaries (and look at how that turned out). The oligarchs can't get near Putin and they don't have any say in this.

Also, I personally prefer the word 'kleptocracy' to describe them.

R83- How much loyalty and control of his military does he still have though? Also why did no one step up to stop Prigizhin when he was rushing towards Moscow? It appeared that people were cheering him on.

[quote]How much loyalty and control of his military does he still have though?

The military are still in Ukraine fighting and the top generals are still on his side. They are mostly loyal despite many reports of awful conditions and lack of pay.

[quote]Also why did no one step up to stop Prigizhin when he was rushing towards Moscow? It appeared that people were cheering him on.

They weren't cheering him on. They were standing around doing nothing. It's the Russian cynical and jaded way. I assume you may mean the people taking pictures with him at the end? That wasn't real support either, just shitheads doing it for the lols of it.

Heard the theory that Prigozhin has damaging information on Putin and that could explain a lot.

Meduza (blog) interviewed a woman, a senior research fellow at the Finnish Institute of International Affairs, who explained the situation with the regional governments along the route who did nothing. There’s no transcript and the speakers on my phone are terrible, I’ve tried to listen but between my speakers and her accent and whatever compression software they use, I don’t understand but there was something about a directive going out pre-coup attempt to not resist. Maybe somebody else can figure it out.

[quote]I don’t understand but there was something about a directive going out pre-coup attempt to not resist.

If true, that's obviously a way to try to contain and calm the situation. Remember that Prigozhin was neither threatening Putin nor wanting to take over Russia - he wanted Shoigu and Gerasimov replaced. So the last thing Putin wants is civilians killed and possible civil war. The military was also mostly tied up in Ukraine so it would have taken time to get serious hardware over.

R88, it’s possible that the local forces were told not to engage with the Wagner soldiers since they would be easily overpowered. The Russian Air Force, though, did attack Prigozhin’s troops, and I find it hard to believe that Putin wanted there to be no resistance or protests. I’m very sure that neither he nor Prigozhin are troubled by bloodshed or the loss of human life.

R81, Prigozhin is not someone who can be controlled. He sees all those Oligarchs, bureaucrats and money people as less than equals. he's a loose cannon. Kill him and you get his diamond mines, and all his holdings and his bank accounts. If you think former KGB Putin doesn't know where Prigozhin hides his wealth you're mistaken.

The Air Force did attack them but on the highway. Any attack or killing in built up areas with civilians would have risked a dangerous escalation within Russia. That's why Putin and the FSB would have ordered governors to back off them and leave it to the military to try to handle it.

‼️ Zelenskyy: Occupiers have placed items that look like explosives at the Zaporizhzhia NPP.

"Now the whole world must realize that general safety fully depends on global attention to the actions of occupiers at the plant. Russia must be clearly aware: the world sees what scenarios the terrorists are preparing for, and the world is ready to react.

Radiation is a threat to everyone in the world, and a nuclear power plant must be fully protected from any radiation incidents. The different nations of the world have their own intelligence and other capabilities to know exactly what is going on and who is to blame.

Now we have information from our intelligence that on the roof of several power units of Zaporizhzhia nuclear plant the Russian military have placed objects that look like explosives. Probably to simulate a strike on the plant. Perhaps they have some other scenario. But in any case, the world sees - and cannot but see! - that the only source of danger for the Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant is Russia, and no one else.

Unfortunately, there was no timely and large-scale reaction to the terrorist attack at the Kakhovka hydroelectric power plant. And this may inspire the Kremlin for a new evil. It is the responsibility of everyone in the world to stop it. No one can stand aside, because radiation leaves no one behind."

Ok thanks, that makes sense r89, r90, r92.

Now this nuclear power plant threat. Apparently Putin thinks he can set off a limited nuclear explosion.

Putin seems to think he can irradiate half of Europe without any blowback.

Things could get a wee bit too interesting in the next few days/weeks/centuries.

[quote]Putin seems to think he can irradiate half of Europe without any blowback.

My fear is that he can - at least not by much more than what countries are currently doing.

Think about how things are legally structured. NATO has to get everyone to agree to act. They have Russia-friendly countries and countries who don't want to escalate things within the organisation e.g. Turkey, Hungary. Ukraine is not in NATO so there is no automatic requirement to act.

And, well, what single country would want to unilaterally act. Even the US would balk at that, I think. For a number of reasons.

What does NATO have to say about toxins crossing from non-NATO countries into its realm? That would assuredly happen if the Ukrainian plant blew up. Would NATO not view that as a deliberate strike against NATO countries? If not, why not? Everyone in the world (apart from Gen Zs who haven't seen the miniseries) knows what happens to Europe if a Ukrainian nuclear plant explodes. Putin could hardly claim he meant no aggression beyond the Ukrainian border.

Re why Prigozhin stopped: the rumour I heard was that he was insufficiently careful about where his wife and children were before he started the attempt. I don't know the source of the rumour and it sounds like a rookie error, but we deal in rumour here so you might as well have it.

R98 Try telling that to countries like Hungary and Turkey. Explain to me how you get countries like Hungary and Turkey to agree to get NATO to act?

You show them a map of likely airflow? You tell them there will be no Ukrainian grain available to them for the next 60 years? You can be selfish and still be worried about this threat.

[quote](apart from Gen Zs who haven't seen the miniseries)

I'm not Gen Z but ffs, what's with this pathetic, nasty and unwarranted barb at them? Do you have any evidence that Gen Z supports Russia's actions more than other generations do? My personal guess is that they support Russia a lot less than old boomers who like Russia's anti-gay, anti-woke and pro-Trump positions.

R100 Proving that you know nothing about politics if you think that would work on Turkey and Hungary. Educate yourself about the people who lead those countries, what they want (hint: both are wannabe dictators like Putin) and what they believe. God, you're so fucking stupid.

I am not R100 I don’t think anyone wants radiation sickness and birth defects, not even bigoted dictators. It’s a bad look for a master race.

China needs to step up. I blame Xi for this mess, their grain harvest just failed and they need Ukraine’s harvest to trade for rare metals in Africa. No wheat from Ukraine is problematic for China’s 50 year plan.

R102, I'm not R100, but it's far from "fucking stupid" to think that the poisoning of the Black Sea and fallout on Hungary would not have dire economic and public-health consequences, and that Erdoğan and Putin, as dictatorial as they are, would respond. The former just won a highly contested election; the latter is propped up by EU money—neither is unresponsive to their population. Turkey especially would be in a bad position and Turkey doesn't need Putin as much as you think. Erdoğan would be susceptible to some deal with other NATO countries; Orbán would be isolated and under pressure.

Putin would be crazy to allow anything to happen at the Nuclear power station. Insane. You cannot contain a nuclear "accident." Anyone want a preview of what it could look like ought to go to HBO and watch "Chernobyl." It was an extremely well done miniseries that ought to terrify any one. Now that Putin has his "bad guy" He can blame the Wagner group or Prigozhin himsself for fucking up with the power station, and send some people in there who know what they're doing.

If Putin does anything with Zaporizhzhia that is what is going to draw the US into this war with troops on the ground.

Boris is busy on DL!

BREAKING:

The Belarusian Minister of Transport, Aliaksei Auramenka, has died suddenly at the age of 46.

What was his mistake?

R109, possibly being an “ally” of Putin. Apparently everyone who knows him dies.

R110- Thanks for the link. Over 40 mysterious deaths since the war began. Putin needs to die or be be put on trial for war crimes. He is the one responsible for the hell we are going through as well. He is directing the destruction of this country. He is a very dangerous and destructive enemy guilty of war crimes ,mass murder, and child trafficking. I'm sure he is guilty of many other crimes that we aren't aware of yet. Trump gave him everything on everybody in every country. I hate him as much as I hate trump.

I have a feeling this guy may have been keeping an eye on Lukashenko and Prigozhin, and back channeling info to Putin so the guys in Belarus killed h im. Sending Putin a message.

Let’s hope R112

Wishful thinking.

Prigozhin has returned to Russia! In defiance of his peace deal with Putin, or whatever's going on.

R115, If he is in Russia, I don't think it's voluntary. Just a theory.

R116, this story gets even stranger: according to Pentagon sources, it’s possible that Prigozhin never left Russia, and has just been “at liberty” the whole time.

He’s walking around St Petersburg checking on his money.

Maybe Putin is the one who doesn’t exist. Maybe he died and it’s just his body double making speeches and nobody wants to rock the boat.

Maybe we'll here about the Defense Minister having a fatal accident.

It just gets stranger.

Apparently Putin has admitted that, while he would like to force Prigozhin out as the leader of the Wagner Group, he hasn't yet been able to do so. He needs the Wagner forces to agree to continue to fight in Ukraine.

R120 yeah, real strange. The last I read...yesterday, Putin was saying there really is no such thing as The Wagner Group.