Change my mind: women are more homophobic than men

All the homophobia I've ever experienced has been from straight women.

You sound unwell and multiply rejected, OP.

I hate homophobic women, they're ghastly.

straight guys don't care who sucks their dick and a hole is a hole. Homophobia was created and fueled by women, in order to control their men

Straight women fought alongside us for our rights. Straight men didn’t until it became cool to do so. Jane Fonda, not Warren Beatty championed gay rights and made it public discourse. I love all people, but women are not more homophobic than men they are actually more courageous.

[quote]straight guys don't care who sucks their dick and a hole is a hole.

Which planet do YOU live on?

Some of you are letting all the straight hot dick you’ve got to blow clout your judgment. God know I sometimes do. But little girls didn’t call me a fag in some grades of primary school; little boys did. I never really experience homophobia as an adult but I’m sure many of you have. I’m sure it difficult for us straight acting good looking gay with the passive aggressiveness and resentment display towards you. I know I’ve experienced it. But some gays cowrie be threats and even violence from straight men.

In many western civilizations, men were men. there was no division. Women understood that if they shamed man on man sex, and create antagonist groups, they would rule. Simple. They pretend to fight for gay rights, but in fact they built that ghetto and want to make sure that everybody is clearly labelled

Girls were my friends in high school/college. Straight boys were shoving me into lockers, calling me fag, etc.

R7 Take an English class.

It's often because women worry about STDs wreaking long-term irreparable damage on their bodies, because female systems are more susceptible to disease, inflammation, infection etc. than males', especially the reproductive & endocrine systems. Consider that the possibility of one day having a healthy baby is important to a lot of young and fertile age women, straight or gay, as is ageing well and gracefully and keeping hold of one's health/looks/youth instead of rotting away with syph or something.

Men are typically (note I didn't say always) more promiscuous, more extreme and less careful and monogamous about sexual activity & health than women. So work out the odds.

[quote] Straight boys were shoving me into lockers, calling me fag, etc.

Horseplay. You should have rolled with the punches and enjoyed it, you might have sucked a few straight dicks

As a gay man, I couldn't give a fuck what women think about me.

This is such an absurd post. Gay women are more helpful towards gay men, than gay men are towards gay men. Gay men are more homophobic than gay women so you know the same is true for straights.

So many mistaken takes on the social and cultural complexity of male homosexuality or bisexuality and is relationship to women, gay or straight, and their lives.

It's not like a few Google searches wouldn't correct the erroneous, biased and self-serving piffle here.

R14 what ? the dykes HATE gays on planet Earth. Where do you live?

R16 on planet Earth cunt. Gay men talk way more shit about gay women than they do about us. Gay men can be so vindictive and down right nasty sometimes.

Why would anyone beclown this thread by following?

Women view bisexual men less favorably as potential serious romantic partners because there is a good chance they prefer men or will at some point. If they prefer women, why bother with being bisexual? A man who is attracted to men to the degree where he identifies as bisexual and thinks of himself that way is probably not going to go the remainder of his life without fucking guys.

Women don’t want to have to compete with other women AND men. Especially since men are often more available sexually. There is also the whole disease transmission thing. A guy who fucks men on the side is more likely to have partners who have lots of partners than a guy who fucks women on the side.

It’s logical. It’s not “Ew - dick sucker!”

Younger women may be more willing to entertain the idea of a bisexual romantic partner. They may see it as a way to trumpet their open mindedness.

I’ve known women who would definitely prefer that their kids not be gay. They don’t say, “I sure hope my kids aren’t gay!” But they clearly view it as an undesirable event when it becomes known that someone else’s kid is gay. Which is obviously homophobic. But I’ve rarely come across women who have that knee-jerk snickering reaction to homosexuality that straight men still sometimes have.

[quote] on planet Earth cunt

wow not vindictive at all....

Oh bull fucking shit, OP. I've raised 2 gay men and have had gay friends all my life. So fuck off.

[quote] Oh bull fucking shit, OP. I've raised 2 gay men

wow. Both your sons wouldn't touch a pussy with a ten ft pole. You must be quite the bitch

You're confusing men being aroused by two women being together with being aroused by (or even supportive of) two men being together. Two different things, OP.

Men also like the thought of women being together because maybe they get to be involved and sleep with both women. A huge fantasy. This does not mean straight men support male homosexuality.

The OP sounds like a victimized Meghan Markle fan, or something similar. Neuter sexuality seeking lots of cash by bending itself to the target's sexual needs.

[quote] Men also like the thought of women being together because maybe they get to be involved and sleep with both women. A huge fantasy. This does not mean straight men support male homosexuality.

Doesn't mean straight men support female homosexuality, either. Presented with non-fawning dykes in all their unshaven, unadorned, un-dolled glory, normal non-glamourous women only interested in each other, many and even most straight and bi men recoil and suddenly become quite lesbophobic and dismissive and disinterested. It's a blow to both the male Ego and the male aesthetic sense.

What men interested in women actually want to see is airbrushed p0rnified fauxbian or bi women enacting titillation for them that they wouldn't otherwise.

I would offer a different opinion: while a truly homophobic woman tends to be more vocal than a homophobic man about her homophobia, there is no way that women across the board are more homophobic.

Just take a look at Marvel fan fic or art. 90% of it is women and 90% of it is Tony and Cap Frenching away as if the fate of planets hung in the balance.

R22, yes I'm quite the bitch. The 2 I raised are not my sons but my nephew and Godson. The circumstance of those situations are a long story, but I did raise them. They weren't close in age but both needed a home. What's so hard to understand about that?

Men will kill you.

R2

Best post of the bunch.

I guess being turned down more times than an army blanket causes one to make blanket statements.

OP, go back to your mousehole.

I agree with OP but you're not supposed to say it out-loud.

Also consider that butch women are socially accepted, but effeminate men are hated.

Chances are a woman won't kill you just for being gay. Men will. The "gay panic" defense wasn't created for women. It's used by men, after they've killed a gay man/men simply for being gay.

If it were up to men only, there wouldn't be any type of gay rights in America.

OP is woman hating loser.

Some of the most hostile people on this forum . Such foulness

r1, nonsense, most gay bashers are men

"I never met straight man who would be disgusted by his gf being bisexual and repulsed by fact she eats pussy. Most of the time its a turn on."

That doesn't mean they like gay MEN

[QUOTE]Women understood that if they shamed man on man sex, and create antagonist groups, they would rule. Simple.

There must be an Anthropology 101 text you could cite to back such a flimsy proposition, right?

Er, no.

To straight women, gay men come in two settings. Gay BFF or Prissy Troublemaker. There is no such thing as bi to straight women, you either suck dick or you don't. Straight women are incredibly homophobic, they just hide it better.

Men are only homophobic when they're overly religious or when they have some kind of gay feelings that scare them. Most of the biggest homophobes are closeted gay men. Straight guys, comfortable with their sexuality, don't give two shits about what gay guys are up to.

[QUOTE]Straight guys, comfortable with their sexuality, don't give two shits about what gay guys are up to.

Can you, with your wise, vast, and esteemable knowledge, tell us what percentage of the straight guy population feels this way?

OP, this is really about trans isn't it? After all, that is who is fighting women right now.

A lot of gay men really despise straight women because they lust after their men !

"I never met straight man who would be disgusted by his gf being bisexual and repulsed by fact she eats pussy."

That's because straight men don't think lesbian sex is "real" sex. They think that nothing can compete with their dicks. Sadly for them, a LOT of women leave their male partners for women because women are better lovers.

As for women being turned off because you suck cock...nope. It's because you put your dick where shit comes out. Don't come near my cooter after that.

R40 That part.

OP get a fucking grip. My god.

Straight women are “disgusted” by bisexual men for dating purposes because they believe they are most likely gay. Most gay men on DL are also “disgusted” by bisexual men and think they are gay. So what else is new?

Straight men are completely disgusted by actual lesbians who look like Rosie O’Donnell. They think hot lesbians are cool because they watch porn with straight women filming lesbian scenes. And most of their “bisexual” femme wives and girlfriends drunkenly made out with other girls in college. They aren’t running around eating the pussies of butch overweight lesbians.

Straight men make fun of gay men incessantly. Many of them secretly think we are a joke.

Straight women can absolutely be cunty and nasty - big fucking deal. Are they beating the shit out of you? Murdering you because they think you’re a sinner?

I’m not going to change your mind - think whatever nonsense you want. But if you look at the actual violence committed against us throughout history and worldwide - fraus aren’t the ones doing it.

Look at the presidential primaries, it was the women who went after Buttigieg, not the straight men.

SHE IS DARK SIDED TOOOOOOOO

A woman being turned off by gay sex between men does not make her homophobic. Jeez. What is this, the 1950s?

And, THAT is what most women would think about when it comes to knowingly being with a bi-guy.

Men know nothing about women. But carry on.

They hate us for our dirty dirty wine caves.

Straight men will let you suck their dicks, and they'll fuck your holes BEFORE THEY KILL YOU!

What about gay men's attitudes towards bisexual men? I think there's some ambivalence there, as well.

I wonder why OP hates women and is making up silly lies, trying to get others on DL to hate women? That's the mystery here.

IMHO - I’ve actually thought a quite a bit about this question since coming out. What I deduced is that individuals who are not comfortable with their own sexuality become more trepidatious of homosexuals. I feel there is a fear that you may "turn" them gay because deep down they may also be attracted to the same sex.

[QUOTE] lesbophobic

Mary. Is that even a word?

[quote]What men interested in women actually want to see is airbrushed p0rnified fauxbian or bi women enacting titillation for them that they wouldn't otherwise.

r25 This, and everything else you stated. I've had straight men just flat-out ask me why I "try to make [myself] unattractive" or "why do [I] hide my beauty" because I'm masc. There was a fairly recent conversation where one went down a whole-ass list commenting on my looks; my short hair, telling me I should wear longer earrings because of my short hair, telling me I should make babies with "green eyes" (which was conveniently his eye color), constantly questioning if I was a lesbian because "that's such a waste." It was sickening.

Straight men are programmed to believe all women are here for their viewing pleasure. Those of us who don't fall in line are admonished as "defective" because how dare we don't model our entire existence around giving them spontaneous boners. Most straight men behave terribly toward lesbians who don't suit their porn fantasies of what a "real lesbian" is like. It's even worse if you're masculine and they find you attractive. Perhaps, it fucks with them mentally and they start questioning their own sexuality and blame us for the confusion (i.e. "She looks like a man, but I'm attracted to her. Am I gay???"). Idiots. All of them.

[quote]that knee-jerk snickering reaction to homosexuality that straight men still sometimes have.

What in particular do straight men usually snicker about?

Most women are jealous of gay men. They hate cock and don't understand the attraction. Most women are aroused by money and security.

I don't like bisexual men, either.

ANOTHER "Frau "Troll Thread, OP? You're really on a role. Number 4 or 5 in the last 24 hrs. Who hurt you OP? Was it your mother? Sure seems like it. Seek help.

It's OK, OP. Cradle your mug and look at some more hot guys online who would never fuck you. Go on, hon, they can't look back.

Is op straight? Why on earth would you care that a woman didn't want to have sex with you?

R55

You've got it all wrong, fella!

I'm a mug-cradling, cock-loving Frau who loves to fellate her husband. I'm a stoner for the boner, so stop spreadin' rumors, and start spreadin' cheeks.

OP is looking for change. He wants us to change him. He wants to transition, in a way. We can't change your mind, OP. It doesn't work that way. You have to want to change.

Straight women here. I'm not attracted to men who fuck other men. And?

R60 Don't try to sweet me lady.

R62 Why are you here?

R64 because I fucking love dataloungeband I've been coming here and contributing for over a decade idgaf.

Because I fucking love datalounge and I've been coming here and contributing for over a decade idgaf.

r59 I'm fairly certain OP is bi. He seems obsessed with the topic of bisexual men. And porn. Women not wanting to date and/or have sex with bisexual men has nothing to do with gay men. It's just a preference. No one is entitled to sex or a date, not even bisexual men. The thread title is a red herring.

I am not homophobic I just wouldn't date a bi man because I know the allure of dick.

Women are more likely to support gay causes in public. Straight, or "straight", men are more likely to oppose gay causes in public and let some homo suck them off in a dark alley or behind closed doors.

And a lot of women admit watching gay porn. How many straight men admit to that?

I am not homophobic I just wouldn't date a bi man because I know the allure of dick.

Just because your wife despises you for being a fat homo, OP?

r68 Ironically, that is exactly why I, as a lesbian, wouldn't date a bi woman.

R4 This is without a doubt, the dumbest thing ever written on this site

[quote] You know how tons of straight men enjoy watching lesbian porn and nobody bats an eye? The same doesn’t seem to apply to women who watch gay porn.

[quote]Just take a look at Marvel fan fic or art. 90% of it is women and 90% of it is Tony and Cap Frenching away as if the fate of planets hung in the balance.

This. Exactly. I think 90% of gay slash and gay shipping and art and yaoi is created by and for (mainly younger) women. Gay men watch gay porn where actual men fuck other men. All the gay anime and Marvel fanfic? That’s women.

I had an intern and I had to ask her in the most delicate, least sexually offensive or harassing way (because SHE was literally always the one bringing it up) “So…why does it seem like women are more interested in seeing gay romances fanfic between comic book characters?” And she was a very smart woman and I thought she was very articulate with her response (moreso than I’ll be able to remember what she said exactly). She said that for women, their sexuality is internalized whereas for men it’s externalized (i.e. literally. Their genitals are inside them, ours are on the outside) and to women that externalization was more tangible and even desirable and easy to fantasize about than heterosexual romance. And my understanding from her was that none of the slash and fanfic and art that women watched about superheroes falling in love was ever that explicit and it allowed them to make it as romantic or erotic as they wanted in their imagination. It’s like it wasn’t even designed for gay men. It’s gay romance designed for straight woman. Even gay teen romances like Love, Simon and Red, White, and Royal Blue were written by women. For women!

I saw Love, Simon. It was cute. But I definitely felt that I, a gay man, was NOT the target audience for it.

R72 You, as a lesbian, know the allure of dick?

[quote] But what is a little surprising is that that women are watching gay porn, too. Yes, they're watching lesbian porn like guys—even straight women—but they're also watching a lot of gay sex happen between two (or more) dudes.

[quote] But why? What do women get out of watching men head directly downtown to poundtown? Since we could only speculate, we asked a dozen women to share why they watch—and in many cases prefer viewing—two dudes go to town on one another.

Don't hate me for saying this but maybe it's all the diseases. Everyone's on prep not using condoms. Two of my friends got gonorrhea from some stripper boys last week and yes on prep but doesn't protect from stds

r76 Um, no. A straight woman admitting there is an "allure of dick" is why I don't date bi women. Because they like dick. I'm not about that life.

In my 57 years experience, it's about equal between the two sexes. Maybe women are more passive aggressive about it. The big difference is of course, men can bring the violence, whereas I've never felt physically at risk from a woman.

"Change my mind"

I'd rather not touch that.

Isn't there some kind of head diaper you can use?

OK so r69 and r74 posted links to articles while I was writing my post. Evidently young women like the intern I worked with graduate from subtly romantic fanfic about Batman and Superman living together in a Brooklyn brownstone to full on gay porn! 😂

R79= Megan Fox

I always laugh at people who insist that getting dumped for a guy (if you're a woman) is worse than getting dumped for another woman. I had a female friend like this once who freaked out over a hypothetical question of getting dumped for a guy "What if he dumps me for a guy? I can't compete with a guy! It has to be the worst feeling ever of not being able to save your relationship!" and I took her by her shoulders, looked her straight in the eye and asked, "You really want to fight for someone who sees no future in a relationship with you and wants to start a new one with someone else?". That was the moment I realized how toxic codependency is.

- most women rub their puss to gay porn

- find out her boyfriend is bisexual/ was a gay pornstar/experimented with guys

- total pussy killer

Where is logic

[quote] A guy who fucks men on the side is more likely to have partners who have lots of partners than a guy who fucks women on the side.

MmmHmmm, Yeah, that's what I tell all my Johns, I mean clients to say if they get caught by their wives picking up street walkers, hiring call girls or visiting massage parlors.

R77 the irony from that article

Everyone believes guys in gay porn are into it except gays who whine it's flooded with gay-for-payers (something that exists only in their delusional minds)

It only proves how porn addicted are gay men.

Hard disagree, men are generally much more homophobic. The only homophobia I’ve ever received, mainly just when I was adolescent, was from guys. The worst women have ever done to me was to say something like “oh that’s a waste” when they learned I’m gay. Which is kind of a compliment wrapped in an insult; I didn’t find it homophobic as such.

r86 It's easier for males to transmit STDs and STIs to females than vice versa. Also...

^ That's passive-aggressive homophobia. A lot of women talk shit like that.

News at 11: OP hates women. How many threads on the topic did you start today already? Seek help.

[quote]The worst women have ever done to me was to say something like “oh that’s a waste” when they learned I’m gay. Which is kind of a compliment wrapped in an insult;

Oh I used to get that so much in my 20s and at the time it did feel like an insult and I always quietly thought “well, not for my BOYFRIEND!” But then by my mid-late 30s women seemed to stop saying that and I don’t know if it’s because as they grew older and more mature they also thought it was an insult or if times were just changing and all the women got together and dedicated it was an insult and they would try to be more supportive and they started saying things like “oh! That’s great! Do you have a boyfriend?” with big smiles and I’d sigh “…no…” and wished they would just go back to saying “Aw, what a waste”. That actually made me feel more desirable (even if it was coming from someone I’d never in a million years have sex with.)

Str8 ladies? Can we go back to saying “Aw, such a waste”? I kinda need the ego boost right now.

R89 Article say " men who have sex with men and women" not bisexuals

What about gay-for-payers in porn who don't identify as bisexual or g4p escorts- they also have sex with both men and women.

Growing up, men were much more homophobic, especially during the younger years like in school for example. As I got older I have noticed there is a sizable amount of straight woman that think that way too. The difference is the men can be aggressive about it and take physical action. They see gays as a aberration that needs to be stamped out of their "male" classification. It gives their brand a bad name.

Straight women are as others have said are more passive aggressive. They are more likely to make snide remarks about being "groomers" or diseased. They think gay men are dirty and should not be around their children. They think gays are predictors. Which is ironic because the vast majority predictors are straight men and a lot of gay men I know don't even like being around kids. And gay relationships to them are not on the same level or as real as a straight relationship or family. Gay couples to them are like flights of fancy.

"What a waste.." is NOT a compliment. They are saying "You're attractive but what you do sexually is disgusting..." .

Actually what they are saying is I cant use you as my meal ticket as a stay at home mother and the precious sperm is going into another man's ass instead.

Sally Jessy Raphael had a show where a gay man had a crush on a straight friend. He went on the show to confess his love to the straight. The love interest didn't react during the show but the next day the straight guy murdered the gay guy with the crush

I had a few 'what a waste' comments thrown at me as a young man, and told these cunts to fuck off. It's a rude fucking thing to say.

[quote][R89] Article say " men who have sex with men and women" not bisexuals

That's...literally what a bisexual man is.

And you really are obsessed with this topic r93/OP. Get a grip.

R97 has DEMENTIA. That was not Sally Jessy Raphael it was The Jenny Jones Show.

That actually happened on the Jennie Jones show, R97.

Ahh, looks like R100 beat me to it, and spelled her name correctly to boot.

R96 unless he pulls out

Women don’t kill gay men in hate crimes. Women don’t write and pass laws criminalizing gay men. Women don’t beat up gay men.

Straight men are not disgusted by lesbians because they don’t respect it. That itself is a form of homophobia. And, straight men are disgusted by gay men who suck dick.

Frau are annoying. I get it. But, don’t rewrite history to legitimize your homophobia.

Just ask yourself this, OP. Think of the most backwards, fundamental religion you can. Now, imagine you have to spend a day with them, as an open gay man. The group gets to decide your fate. Who do you pick? A group of women or a group of men?

Yeah, sure, straight women would never go on public crusades to stamp us out. You sound like a "fruit" pie.

Not to mention that stupid cunt who was the leader of westboro baptist church.

R105 At the extreme extent that men do? No, they do not. You literally had to go back to the 70s to find one 🤣

No one is saying women cannot be homophobic. BUT, they are less homophobic than men.

[quote]"What a waste.." is NOT a compliment. They are saying "You're attractive but what you do sexually is disgusting..." .

No, they don’t mean it as an insult. They mean it as a personal loss. He’s gay. Sucks to be me. He’ll never date me because I’m a woman. They’re not saying “oh that’s disgusting” because they’ll still treat you with dignity after saying it. If they said “Ew gross!” THAT would be an insult.

I *never* went through a bisexual phase. I never thought or told anyone I was bisexual. And I still had a woman insist that I said I was bi and she was sad that I was gay. Because, as I was told by others, she thought if I was bisexual, she still had a shot. And she was crushed to find out she didn’t. And she never thought it was gross. Multiple people told me she had a crush and she was perfectly willing to date a bisexual guy-a guy who has sex with other men- and was upset when she found out that was off the table.

Woman are not less homophobic, just less violent than men. But these days unlike the 70's there are a lot more women in power position to make laws that do affect gay men. And not in a good way sometimes. Also you are talking form an American perspective. In many countries, woman go along with the straight men when it comes to throwing them off buildings.

Just another He-Man Woman-Haters-Club thread.....are you Spanky or Alfalfa?

[quote] In many countries, woman go along with the straight men when it comes to throwing them off buildings.

Women in those countries also have no other option other than to "go along with" whatever the men choose to avoid the punishment of "honorably being stoned to death." So, there's that.

@R89

The link to the story does not work but the link to the highlights the summary does work.

And the summary of the article does not , in my quick early morning reading, does not say what you claim it says.

The summary does say that msm (a designation cdc does use) have more hIV. Then it says that men who have sex with men and woman “might” have more STI “could” be more at risk. It’s true straight men do not get tested near as much as a msm. And they normally do not need to.

I saw nothing in the summary that suggested that gay men have a lower incidence of syphilis GC MPX Hep c Hep b or neurosyphilis than bi men. No data or numbers at all in that summary.

Could you please post CDC stats that shows a bi man is more at risk than a gay man for STI?

I have been looking at cdc std or sti data for decades. I have never seen where they collected data on gay vs straight men.

In fact cdc does not use the term gay man. It’s MSM White, MSM Black, MSM Hispanic, then men or woman by race that do not have same sex activity.

Could bi men have more STI than a strictly gay man? Sure it’s possible. But I’d want to see the cdc data on this.

Definitely no homophobic women on this thread. Nope. No sir.

[quote]Women in those countries also have no other option other than to "go along with" whatever the men choose to avoid the punishment of "honorably being stoned to death." So, there's that.

Women in those countries need to grow a pair. It's 2023 not 1023. How long are they going to just remain silent? Look at Afghanistan, they had 20 to get their shit together, they had women in schools, women in business, women wearing makeup and no head covering. Then when the US left they just let it all go back to the old ways with the Taliban. And some of those are mothers of the Taliban.

[quote]And the summary of the article does not , in my quick early morning reading, does not say what you claim it says.

I didn't claim anything other than the fact that males can transmit STDs and STIs to females more easily than vice versa. The POZ article was merely linked to highlight another concern that straight women tend to have and why many of them don't want to date or have sex with bisexual men.

And the Science Daily article is here. The POZ article's hyperlink messed up the URL by adding a comma.

[quote]Women in those countries need to grow a pair.

Tell us you're privileged without telling us you're privileged.

You're talking about countries where they publicly push human beings off of buildings in the 21st century. They live in a country that still practices 11th century barbarism. Go over there and fix it if you're so incensed by the submissive nature of those women. Tell them to discard their burkas and fight back against the men. Be the change you want to see, r114.

Well, there's been lots of homophobia on this thread and none of it from straight men.

Gay men were secondary in fighting for our rights? Woman don't pass homophobic laws? Women being repulsed by bisexual men is logical because of disease?

I think straight women and straight men are equally prone to homophobia. It just expresses itself differently. A straight man might be more likely to beat you to death. But how many women will defend a gay panic defense as totally reasonable?

Then there's the fact that in many societies across the world women lead in upholding social mores they decide are acceptable. If you take Britain in the '80s for example all the most outspoken proponents of Section 28 were women within the Conservative party.

Oh, and I see OP has been FF'd out.

Women won't even allow gay men to discuss homophobia if they don't like the discussion.

11th century barbarism? That's funny, they all seem to have iPhones and know how to use the internet. I guess they were just so cut off for the last 20 years they think plain are birds and computers are magic oracles. Give me a break. When Ukraine was invaded, not only did a lot of those woman stay, they fought back.

Ok. Got it. You're a moron, r118. Have a fantastic day.

r116 - r117 Clearly hates women and is responsible for that "Lesbian Groomers" thread where he is the sole contributor. He's also rabidly pro TRA. Hmmmmmm.

[quote]and is responsible for that "Lesbian Groomers" thread

You have a problem with people discussing the horrors of grooming children?!

You're not a groomer yourself, are you?

[quote]Don't hate me for saying this but maybe it's all the diseases. Everyone's on prep not using condoms. Two of my friends got gonorrhea from some stripper boys last week and yes on prep but doesn't protect from stds

Regardless of how they feel about gays in general, very few straight woman actually want to date a guy who uses glory holes or goes to bathhouses or gets tweaked at a sex party and proceeds to be the dumpster of the night for all comers...and you all know the bi dudes are right there alongside gay men doing those things. You can call them names all you want, but you're just not ever going to get many straight women on board with that when it comes to someone they're intimate with.

Personally I believe you couldn't be more wrong, OP. I have found that straight females are more accepting of homosexuality because gay men do the same things sexually they enjoy. While straight men are more accepting of lesbianism because lesbians do the same things sexually they enjoy. Many straight females are turned on by gay sex, and many straight males are turned on by lesbian sex.

r121 14 WWs in less than 5 minutes of posting a response in a thread that isn't getting nearly that much attention. OP of this thread also had this to say in the Lesbian Groomers thread:

[quote]Why all dykes are so fugly. Then they complain lesbian porn is flooded with bisexual and lesbian-for-pay girls. Genetic waste.

I'll take "bisexual and/or TRA trolls who have been repeatedly rejected by lesbians for 800 Alex." Cry more.

[quote]Why all dykes are so fugly. Then they complain lesbian porn is flooded with bisexual and lesbian-for-pay girls. Genetic waste.

Not me. Though the sentiment doesn't seem wholly inaccurate.

You can tell R122 is a big fat Frau. Most gay men do not go to glory holes and bath houses anymore. The 1970's are over and most bath houses in the US have been closed down for decades. Heck, even most gay bars have gone out of business. Stop using the DL as your reliable source, about gay men, it's autonomous so 3/4 of what you read is just pure BS.

@115

Go back and look at the title of the article you posted. That title clearly says that bi men have higher rates of STI than gay men.

Now who is more at risk of STD infection men or woman is a different topic.

Based on my experience that depends on the type of sex the men and woman are having not the fact that they are men or woman.

Anal has a much higher risk than P in V sex. Oral also much less so a risk.

Two groups I have followed as far as infections. MSM and swingers. Both have a lot of sex.

Much of that sex with no condoms. MSM have lots of STDs (syphilis GC etc) and HIV. Swingers not so much.

You don’t see anal sex often at a swingers orgy. MM or MW

What about all the straight men who cheat on their wives with hookers? It's a billion dollar industry. Not all of them are high-end health conscious prostitutes. There's a reason they are called crack whores. Men are cheap and cheap whores are usually dirty.

r127 Female anatomy, specifically the vagina, is more susceptible to infections from a penis than vice versa. Women are more vulnerable to STDs and STIs than men. That is all.

@129

Men in the US by far have more STI and HIV than woman. And it’s not all that close.

You post an article claiming at bi men have more STI than gay men they claim what you really meant was that a man having V sex with a woman is at less risk of STI than the woman.

[quote]what you really meant was that a man having V sex with a woman is at less risk of STI than the woman.

I said that. Twice:

[quote]It's easier for males to transmit STDs and STIs to females [bold]than vice versa.[/bold]

[quote]Female anatomy, specifically the vagina, is more susceptible to infections from a penis [bold]than vice versa.[/bold]

[quote]You post an article claiming at bi men have more STI than gay men

Yes. And per the study, it's likely due to them being less cautious and vigilant than gay men with their sexual behavior and health overall.

Anyway, who cares if straight women aren't dating/fucking bi men? That's really not my problem.

@131

You posted no study with no data showing that bi men have more STI than strictly gay men.

The summary you posted certainly did not say that. I said could and might. The only thing that said that bi men are more at risk than gay men besides you , is the misleading headline for the article you posted.

Risk——men in the US get a lot more STD and HIV than woman. That is what the CDC data shows.

Just because some guy called you the F word back in elementary school, you've decided that all straight guys are homophobic. You guys are all dealing with trauma. Again, straight guys don't give two shits what gay guys are up to unless they overly religious, closeted, or worried about their sons being gay. Straight women are constantly screwing over gays and you guys are constantly falling all over yourselves to be friends with them, while trashing lesbians. Lesbians, who have always been friends to gay men.

LOL at OP trying to pit us Gays against our own allies like women.

Our allies... like Marjorie Taylor-Fugface and Lauren Hoebert.

[quote]You posted no study with no data showing that bi men have more STI than strictly gay men.

r132 see r115.

[quote]While HIV prevalence among MSMW is lower than among gay men, MSMW are more likely than heterosexual men to become infected with HIV. Also, MSMW are less likely than gay men to be tested for HIV, which can lead to undiagnosed HIV and transmission to partners. Along with HIV, other STIs are common among MSMW, [bold]with 21% of these men reporting STI treatment in the past year, compared to 12% for gay men and 2.3% of heterosexual men.[/bold]

@136

I am not arguing but I have absolutely no idea where that 21% or 12% or 2.3% came from. I would absolutely bet those % do not come from CDC or the USPHS

CDC the govt entity that collects official US Dx data (nor any state HD) IME has “never” collected or published data as far as gay men vs bi men and STIs.

@136

Look at how CDC collects the state data that becomes the national data.

Virtually the only time they refer to gay men or bi men is when they define MSM which is

Gay men, bi men, and other men who have sex with men. Never has it been gay vs bi men and STIs.

If you are not posting official Dx data you are posting someone’s opinion IMO

r137 I mean, at the end of the day what matters is if the STI and STD rates of bisexual men are higher than straight men, anyway. The CDC data definitely shows this. Therein lies one of the many reasons straight women prefer not to date them. Especially when you break it down by racial demographics. There is a genuine concern, there. That's really all there is to it.

[quote] Our allies... like Marjorie Taylor-Fugface and Lauren Hoebert.

LOL, because of two examples, women are not our allies? What sad and pathetic trolling.

I don't even understand why straight women are even on this site.

[quote] “So…why does it seem like women are more interested in seeing gay romances fanfic between comic book characters?” And she was a very smart woman and I thought she was very articulate with her response (moreso than I’ll be able to remember what she said exactly). She said that for women, their sexuality is internalized whereas for men it’s externalized (i.e. literally. Their genitals are inside them, ours are on the outside) and to women that externalization was more tangible and even desirable and easy to fantasize about than heterosexual romance. And my understanding from her was that none of the slash and fanfic and art that women watched about superheroes falling in love was ever that explicit and it allowed them to make it as romantic or erotic as they wanted in their imagination. It’s like it wasn’t even designed for gay men. It’s gay romance designed for straight woman. Even gay teen romances like Love, Simon and Red, White, and Royal Blue were written by women. For women!

It's because male writers write women and write hetero romance so poorly, objectifying women and taking away all their interiority so they're essentially sexy fantasy props or crutches or mouthpieces. And when as a female that's all you've grown up reading and seeing all around you as representations of sexual womanhood, you feel you either have to accept that or try to find another way to explore by escaping into your own fantasy about the sex that culture presents as having a worthy complex inner sexual life.

Why does Mediapolis allow hate threads like this to go on and on?

The OP has at least 6 other hateful, homophobic threads attacking gay people and ALL women.

As a lesbian, I am hesitant to date women who have been with men in the past. NOT because I worry they will leave me for dick, but mostly because every single straight friend of mine has some sort of STD from sleeping with men and I don't want that shit, ever!! Men gross me the fuck out for many reasons. I actually am repulsed by their smell.

I know I'm weird, but I have slept with women who were bi or who later realized they were lesbians. One had herpes but not actively and I've since had STD tests and all came out clear. She was hotter than fuck so yeah, I made an exception.

The @115 reference guy, et al

This ain't Instagram Toots. Take that @ shit outta here.

[quote] I don't even understand why straight women are even on this site.

I don't mind the ones who love to hang out with us Gays. Back in the days, they were called fag hags. But I do think the ones trying to lecture us about how to be good Gays are tedious.

R144 Misandrist.

[quote] Men gross me the fuck out for many reasons. I actually am repulsed by their smell.

Well, aren’t you charming?

[quote]Men gross me the fuck out for many reasons. I actually am repulsed by their smell.

r144 Well...you see...uhh...

^^no, she's right, the musk of men really is malodorous if you aren't highly attracted to them.

Every time I go to my straight sister's place, I am assaulted by the funk of her fiance (Arab, 30). I like him, he's clean, healthy, fit and a gym-goer, doesn't always drown himself in cologne the way his countrymen tend to, plus eats a regimented and normal Westernised diet, but still his natural smell is absolutely rank and overpowering to my nose. Like something chokingly stinky, fetid and spicy. I feel bad that I have to open windows and doors or otherwise excuse myself outside a lot (fake smoke breaks etc.) to stay over there. Have no idea how my sis copes with sharing a bed with him smelling like that, and she says she can't smell it it all, though she has confessed to me she actually prefers sleeping alone albeit more for the space and peace and physical coolness of it (her man runs hot in temperature).

By contrast, to my nose the way women (well, healthy and clean adult women under 50) smell is divine. They always just have this natural scent even without perfume or deodorant that's just sweet and warm and pleasant, almost like fresh fruit or a mown field. It's nice to be around.

R100 All those old talk shows run together but now that you mention it I do remember it was Jenny Jones. And yes, I probably have a slight bit of memory loss. I'm old.

R150 Misandrist and racist.

Why is this racist allowed on DL?

R152 not really, I don't like the way white men typically smell either. Or old women.

Perhaps try fact-checking or asking more questions before you start hurling accusations of bigotry about.

[quote]^^no, she's right, the musk of men really is malodorous if you aren't highly attracted to them.

r150 Oh, trust me. I know. I have, sadly, had the same experience only worse because it was very up close and...erm...."personal" (not a gold star lesbian). It genuinely made me wince. Every time. It's like a mixture of burnt sausage, cedarwood, sweat, and a faint hint of...bleach? I think the bleach smell actually might've been something else that I don't even want to get into.

Moving on...

On the flip side, I don't experience any pleasant smells from women, especially nothing like what you're mentioning. It's just neutral. Maybe my pheromone receptors shut-down in fear from being assaulted the first time 'round.

I've found that straight men are more likely to say and do homophobic things when around women.

R154 you have some interesting issues with your nose…

R157 yeah, I'm hypersensitive in general, it's the autism.

The hyperacusis is more annoying to live with--I can hear the most irritating sounds from what seems like miles away, or hear sounds close by at five times the volume everyone else does. Also the temperature and pain sensitivities I have are fucked as well.

R154 That's crap and you know it. If men here say women stink of fish that's misogynist and you'd be the first to call it out as such. However, you think it's fine to say all men stink.

Actual footage of r159 right now...

R159 men here say it all the time and no one says a thing. Mainly because it's in almost every thread.

R161 exactly.

If you want bitcherel, then it should be equal opportunity. Can't have your cake and be fat too (well, maybe R159 can, he's beyond hope).

R161 R162 I see you were doing your best to prove the topic title correct.

Come on, men, have at ‘em!

[quote] By contrast, to my nose the way women (well, healthy and clean adult women under 50) smell is divine. They always just have this natural scent even without perfume or deodorant that's just sweet and warm and pleasant, almost like fresh fruit or a mown field. It's nice to be around.

I absolutely cannot second that. I lam a woman, I like men and women and whether I find their smell attractive is highly individual. I don't even have a general preference there. It also doesn't necessarily match whether I like someone or whether they're attractive in general. A colleague is hot as fuck and he has a weird body odor, bitter and tangy. I am really not into the small of my best friend either. Women can stink just like men. Absolute worst: some girls during puberty. I still remember a girl in school who I avoided strategically because when she happened to raise her arm this was biological warfare. (She was otherwise attractive.)

[quote] I absolutely cannot second that. I am a woman.

So then you don't have hypersensitivity to olfactory stimulus, or your brain creating weird interpretations of sensory input. Good for you. Must be nice. Can't imagine.

The neurotypicality of it all...

[quote] Women can stink just like men. Absolute worst: some girls during puberty. I still remember a girl in school who I avoided strategically.

No-one said they didn't or couldn't. Even I didn't say that. We all know teens tend to smell awful, it's reported by most people.

Subjective opinion is different from objective fact. Clearly, my singular, strange experience is not the norm, nor did I imply it was. But thanks for flagging it up, am sure someone will appreciate the unsolicited clarification. Epitome of 'ok but who asked'.

[quote] I see you were doing your best to prove the topic title correct

R163 I read what you said twice and still don't see how you can interpret what I wrote at R161 as homophobic. You're one of those paranoid types who scream "homophobia!" every time someone points out what an asshole you are.

For the record, I am not the one who said all men stink. You brought up an example of women smelling like fish because it is so often said here that you knew it would be an apt comparison. I simply pointed out that it is a running comment that no one bats an eye at and it's absolutely true.

Anita Bryant was the first mainstream anti-gay activist, no?

R166 Okay I'll give you that. Your message wasn't homophobic.

No one bats en eyelid at the fish comment, I agree, but I never say it myself. So therefore I think it's fine for me to criticise someone else for making comments about how people smell. But then it's so silly I suspect it was a troll comment. I shouldn't have bitten!

R138, if you want to see the CDC data, you either need to have academic access or pay for the article because it’s behind a pay wall. The poster you keep asking (who is not me) for data provided you with a link to the article name and all of the reference information you need to find it, so you need to leave that poster alone and find the answers yourself because it’s not their job to look up the data or pay for access to it for you. For a 10 year old article with probably 15-year-old data.

And if you have been working with CDC STD surveillance data for decades, as have I, then you will know that STD MIS doesn’t have complete SOGI data because it is extremely hard to collect. As a matter of fact, we’re just getting to the point where clinicians are finally starting to ask questions about SOGI data. And CDC does not routinely report sexual orientation in their STD data reports. They occasionally report it in peer reviewed journal articles.

CSC’s eHARS does collect more information on cases of HIV transmission and does have more SOGI data, but they are not reporting identities, they are reporting risk categories. MSM is not an identity. It is simply a risk category. And their risk categories are hierarchical. If you tell your provider you had had sex with 10,000 women and one man, your RISK category will be MSM even if you were infected through sex with a woman. The same thing is true for injecting drug users. If you only injected drugs once and report that, your transmission will be recorded as IDU even if you were infected through sexual transmission. As a matter of fact, we know from the research that many individuals that are categorized as having a RISK of IDU were infected through sexual transmission from needle sharing and sexual partner information that is collected by DIS (Disease Intervention Specialists).

And everyone who works with CDC STD and HIV surveillance data is aware of these limitations. And we know the numbers are estimates and not true numbers. And that’s OK. Because we will never know the true numbers. Because there is a huge proportion of people who are identified as NIR (no identifiable risk) who clam up and won’t tell their providers anything about their sex or needle sharing partners. We know the data is just an estimate and we’re more concerned with the trends. Is it going up or down in MSM? That’s really one of the only questions we can answer.

You keep asking for a data set that is 1) very old, 2) probably not publicly available, and 3) more than likely based on BRFSS survey data instead of actual STD cases.

But you keep confusing identity and risk. And you’re asking that poster to give you data that they would have to pay to provide you, and that is already outdated. And you also seem to be confused about how the CDC STD Divison and the Division of HIV/AIDS Prevention report data.

So I would suggest either using your academic access if you have one, or paying for the article instead of continually asking for a source that is not easily available.

And then, if you have it and would like to discuss it, I’m sure people here would be happy to do so with you.

But you can probably tell from my tone that I am finding your repeated questions frustrating and obtuse. So you probably won’t want to discuss it with me in particular.

BRFSS?

You have got to be kidding. This was a discussion about STIs.

Who in their right mind would look at BRFSS for STI Dx data? That is not why we created or funded the BRFSS. And STI Dx data is not what they collect,

I have absolutely no idea what point you are trying to make.

It sounds like you are suggesting that CDC does not provide to the public, free, easy to find, rather new Dx data on STIs.

CDC not only does that they have been doing that for age. Totally free and easy to find.

A STI such as syphilis is a reportable disease.

It’s reported to the state HD then to CDC. On all new syphilis Dx an interview is done . Or attempted for the few Dx that can’t be found and may never be interviewed.

In that syphilis interview they will sooner or later get to this question——“who have you had sex with”—-in the past 3 months for P, 6 months for secondary, or a year for early latent.

If you are interviewing a 40 yo man with primary or secondary or EL syphilis you are not asking nor do you care that in college he may have had sex with his male room mate.

What happened years or decades ago is a non issue.

You are only concerned about the last 3-6-12 months.

And you don’t care how the person self identifies. A non issue. Gay straight bi undecided——no one cares.

You only care about risk, who they have had sex with in the past 3-6-12 months And if they have only had sex with a female they will not be listed as a msm. Despite what happened in college years ago.

If they have had sex with a man , even once within the past 3-6-12 months , they will be listed as a MSM. The code was C-4 back in the day.

Do these men often lie about who they have had sex ? Often. That is why a well trained interviewer is needed to do the job.

It takes time , but sooner or later the interviewer will have a pretty good idea what the client or patient has done and at least an idea of what sex they had sex with.

Having interviewed many of these men , I do realize many actual names will never be known. ,

Risk is important how people self identify is not.

[quote]BRFSS? You have got to be kidding. This was a discussion about STIs.

Ohhhh. I didn’t realize I was dealing with an interviewer and not an epidemiologist. Maybe you’re unaware that some states have their own modules on STD questions for the BRFSS. I’ll provide a link below. I was at that conference. The BRFSS is the only national survey of data for SOGI information, which is not collected by DIS or providers and when it is is rolled up into risk, not identity.

And you don’t need to explain how DIS collect partner information and conduct syphilis testing to me. I oversaw that program.

[quote]Risk is important how people self identify is not.

Yes. That’s exactly what I told you. I’m not sure why you’re repeating it to me.

I still think you’re very confused about how the CDC collects and reports data and the difference between the Division of STD and the Division of HIV/AIDS Prevention and white information they make publicly available. Sexual orientation is not included in the annual STD reports other than syphilis, where it is still group together by gay and bisexual men, but not separated. Not currently, and not in the past.

As you said, you’ve been looking at these reports for years. You’ve obviously never found the information that you’re looking for which should tell you that it’s not reported.

R171

Friend I have absolutely no idea if we are agreeing or disagreeing nor what problem you have with what I said. And I have no idea why you seem to be angry.

This all started with someone else posting that bi s had more STI s that gays. That started the whole thing, Something bi vs gay std Dx which cdc does not collect in its national Dx data. If you disagree with that I’d love a correction.

I will just say if I want to know national syphilis or hiv data I am going to look at the national syphilis or hiv data that cdc provides every year. Not the risk factor survey.

I have no idea what point you were making before about data that was not published or you had to pay for, That was just confusing as to what you meant.

In that national cdc data I will see Dx and risk groups.

White msm , black msm , etc. I am not going to look at the behavior risk factor survey which I helped fund back in the day and made sure cdc had the money. Because that system does not collect national std Dx data.

And as you are well aware cdc std (the nchs surveys may be different) does not care about how one self identifies ,gay ,straight , bi it’s all about who they had sex with not what they call themselves or others call them.

I at this point I am totally confused and have absolutely no idea what we disagree on. My guess is bery little.

But I am sure I am not mad or angry. Just confused.

Have a great day