Why didn’t Chaka Khan have more chart success?

Chaka Khan…? Chana Khan, Chana Khan, Chaka Khan! 📣

What I heard was that she sued her record company for more money and lost. Blacklisted. Same thing happened to Ronee Blakley of Nashville fame. Allegedly.

Luff huh!

Love Through the Fire and Ain't Nobody

I looked at her discography recently and was surprised that Through the Fire only made it to #60.

I swear KY102 played it constantly in the summer of 1985. I thought it had been a #1, or at least top 10. I remember it as one of the "swimming pool songs" of that summer like What About Love, Every Time You Go Away, We Built This City, and whatever Wham and Madonna were doing.

I too assumed Love Through the Fire was a hit.

R6 Through The Fire did hit the top 20 on the AC and Hot Black Singles charts, just not the Hot 100.

I only listened to the Top 40 stations—I was 9 that summer—and I remember Through the Fire being played as much as the huge hits.

But I was in Kansas City, so maybe that explains it.

R8 Sometimes when songs are new the radio stations play the hell out of them to promote them, but they end up not doing that well anyway. I remember in 1993, Tears For Fears’ “Break it Down Again” was all over the radio and yet only hit #25.

Ain't Nobody is one of favs.

And her hits have held up amazingly well over the decades.

And she knows her limitations. Speilberg wanted her to play Shug Avery but she told him that she couldn't act despite his repeated attempts at getting her to play the part.

It turned out for the best. Margaret Avery owned that role.

Thanks for starting this thread, OP. It's prompting me to dive into more of Chaka's music. I just know her big hits. What do you think are the best songs from her discography?

As for Life is a Dance, I just listened. Her vocals are fantastic and the disco funk production is stellar, but there's not much of a song under there. Not a massive hook in the chorus. I can understand it actually not doing that well. Compare that to the prior single, I'm Every Woman and it's night and day.

Shocked, too!!!!! Always been a fan of her music. Swore "I Feel For You" was at least in the top 5. Seems she was fairly in top 40 status in the subcharts, though.

I guess her biggest hit was technically "Higher Love" with Steve Winwood and "I'm Every Woman" which charted as #1 on the R&B Hip Hop Billboard and covered by so many and it's legacy.

But, found this regarding "I Feel For You" as per Wiki: "This version of the song sold more than one million copies in the US and UK, and it helped to relaunch Khan's career. The song hit No. 1 on the Cash Box singles chart and peaked at No. 3 on the Billboard Hot 100 chart from the weeks of November 24, 1984 to December 8, 1984, prevented by further chart movement by Prince's "Purple Rain" and Wham!'s massive hit "Wake Me Up Before You Go Go".[13] The song remained on the Billboard Hot 100 for 26 weeks and became one of Billboard's five biggest pop songs of the year for 1985. The single reached No. 1 on both the US dance[14] and R&B charts in late 1984, remaining atop both for three weeks each.[15] In addition, the song also reached No. 1 on the UK Singles Chart, remaining there for three weeks from November 4–25, 1984.[16] While touring with Prince in 1998 in support of her collaborative album, Come 2 My House, Khan and Prince performed "I Feel for You" as a duet."

1984 was such a massive time for music and movies.

What was her record company in the '80s?

It sounds like they were an indie label that didn't have money to do payola to ensure chart placement—like so many artists' labels did back then—and they couldn't even efficiently track and promote songs that were organically becoming hits.

Wait! She was signed to Warner Bros. WTF?

She was coked up to her tits for most of her career.

I would love "I Feel For You" if Chaka had been allowed to sing on it. But could they have put her vocals further back in the mix?

It sounds like she's singing through a tin can at the end of a subway car.

At one point the backup vocalists are even mixed higher.

Why?

She's a greedy republican bitch who is a fan of the religious right plus she is really a screamer not a singer so...

Chaka Khan had pretty good chart success in R&B, "funk", and dance; latter especially in UK.

Ms, Khan also has had her share of issues marital, personal and family.

Chaka was/is an exceptional singer but after the 70s she never really translated over into the music video era. Although her 80s hits are huge classics now. She was very pretty and talented but they never gave her a distinct sexy visual to go with her music in the 80s, like Tina Turner. I think that's part of her limited chart success, that and drugs and being difficult to work with,

What Cha' Gonna Do For Me (1981) is one of my favorite songs. I think that song was her opportunity to really launch her solo career into the 80s because its a perfect combo of late 70s groove/funk and 80s R&B. But again she had no exciting visual to go with a well written song and her amazing voice.

Chaka can sing.

She is massively influential. That is really not up for debate.

Racial bias, colorism, agism. Chaka is/was a dark-skinned, curvy, middle-aged black woman. It was amazing artists like Chaka Khan, Tina Turner, Patti LaBelle, and Aretha Franklin found success at all for as long as they did.

Concurrent to Warner Bros creation of MTv, Madonna, MJ, Janet, and Whitney were the beginning of popular music as a visual medium. With that shift came a greater focus on youth and Eurocentric beauty standards to sell records like never before. Divas now had to be young and trim with model looks. Anyone not yet grandfathered in from success found during earlier decades (60s & 70s) would be out of luck.

The 80s was the last decade where middle-aged, normal looking, darker-skinned black artists could be successful pop stars from talent alone. In the 90s, such artists tended to be younger, thinner black women largely relegated to R&B or neo-soul. Mariah is fair-skinned and multiracial with a vocal range that surpassed every diva in the business. Once the tall, thin, and statuesque Mariah, Whitney, & Celine ruled the 90s, it was a wrap for dark-skinned, curvy divas trying to reach mainstream success.

R&B is a tough category to generate major crossover hits.

Take Luther Van Dross, arguably king of R&B. He only had five top ten hits and highest spot (#2) was "Endless Love"

She dabbled in Scientology for awhile. Her former brother-in-law, Howard McCrary (father of Family Matters’ Darius McCrary), was a Scientologist for awhile (don’t think he’s still involved).

Chaka did a good job at transitioning from '70s funk diva to the '80s, more than most. She hooked up with David Foster. Who could have been better? But that journey was limited for everyone who tried.

Aretha Franklin also flailed in the late '70s until she got with Narada Michael Walden in the mid-'80s. But he only gave her one good album, or one-and-a-half, before her chart run was near its end.

I am surprised the ubiquity of her '80s hits don't seem to match their chart performance, which indicates a record label problem.

Most people around the world don't know a single song of hers.

She is a no hit wonder.

I wonder if she's mourning the loss of old Pat Robertson...

[quote] The 80s was the last decade where middle-aged, normal looking, darker-skinned black artists could be successful pop stars from talent alone.

That’s not really true. I’d say the 90s was the last decade for what you’re describing. Brandy, Mary J Blige, Toni Braxton and Lauryn Hill were all dark-skinned and enjoyed major pop success on the charts.

Where's my thread

you ungrateful homos

R20, you're wrong.

The early '90s dance revival made stars of curvy dark-skinned black women like Robin S., CeCe Peniston, Martha Wash, the list goes on.

Yeah, the 2000s Britney Spears pop-whore era was the time when you had to be hot and could not be dark-skinned. We are now back to our regularly scheduled programming with women like Lizzo.

Chaka Khan was also a total knock-out in the 70s. Amazingly beautiful woman. She didnt start covering herself from head to toe until the 80s.

R28 & all the gays thank her for covering herself from head to toe.

R25 None of those women were middle aged (i.e- 40s & 50s). They were all pretty, young, and thin. Lauryn Hill was Hip Hop/Rap, Brandy, MJB, & Toni Braxton were R&B. Brandy & Toni came the closest to pop and again were young, thin, and good looking.

R27 The dance craze was short-lived. Martha Wash is fair-skinned (which helped), obese (which didn't), and was already grandfathered in from previous success. CeCe Peniston and Crystal Waters are not dark-skinned. They're medium to lighter brown. Robin S. had one song that became a top 5 hit. Her lack of longevity doesn't disprove my point.

Chaka Khouldn't deliver.

Who's Zooming Who? put Aretha Franklin back on the map so to speak and was her first album to go platinum. Her next collaboration with Narada Michael Walden produced album "Aretha" which did well enough to hit gold.

Fuck yeah!

She did a lot of drugs early on in her career and wasn't as marketable as Whitney Houston.

Where's my thread

Screams 1980's but still one of my favs.

She’s rnb, not pop

Chaka was the black Whitney Houston.

Always wondered whether the fact that Rufus were mostly older white guys hurt her credibility with the black community at the time, whether it was taken as her ‘selling out to the Man/ytey’ (remember she used to be a Pantheress..)

She’s had a fascinating life, and has such charisma.

Too bad chart success is a thing of the past. You can sneeze now and have more #1s than the Beatles and Elvis combined.

R15 that’s Prince for ya

Chaka and Toni Braxton ain’t dark.

Her version of I Feel For You is great in that it involves four legends: sung by Chaka, written by Prince, harmonica and samples by Stevie Wonder and rap by Melle Mel. It’s hard to keep still when it’s on.

I’m a BIG fan of DESTINY, her highly underrated pop/rock oriented follow-up to I FEEL FOR YOU. The album boasted collabs with Phil Collins, Mike Rutherford of Genesis and the guys from Mr. Mister, and the amazingly catchy lead single “Love of a Lifetime” was produced by Green Gartside of Scritti Politti, who also did backing vocals.

[quote] “Love of a Lifetime” was produced by Green Gartside of Scritti Politti, who also did backing vocals.

A rare Scritti mention! Am obsessed with Gartside's music and have been for years, so underrated. Scritti pop is sublime.

“So Close” was another great track from Destiny. It’s pure pop/rock and has guitar from Reb Beach of the rock group Winger. She performed the track when she guest starred in an episode of Hunter that year.

Yes, R45! Scritti music is AMAZING. Absolute is truly a blast-at-full-volume-while-driving song.

Somewhere in my LP collection I have the first album from 'Rufus'- 1973 . I need to give it a play. More rock influenced than later works. "Love the one you're with ", the Stills song was a great cut as was the Stevie Wonder song 'Maybe your baby" on it as well.

[quote] Always wondered whether the fact that Rufus were mostly older white guys hurt her credibility with the black community at the time, whether it was taken as her ‘selling out to the Man/ytey’ (remember she used to be a Pantheress..)

Why would she be looked at as a “sellout” when the music from Rufus was straight up Funk and Soul? Selling out would be if she did bubblegum pop with Rufus. The R&B chart success of all of Rufus singles featuring Chaka should answer your question.

Black people don’t automatically deem a black person a “sellout” for simply working with white people.

Yeah it seemed Whitney and Lionel were "sellouts" for making purely pop sounding music for white audiences despite starting out more R&B. Many great R&B, disco and soul songs had white and Jewish songwriters.

Chaka isn't dark but ageism and beauty standards still worked against her. Madonna also got hit by ageism hard. Also I think colorism was worse in the mid 2000s and 2010s. For a period of time, it was all Beyonce and Rihanna clones. I remember Kelly Rowland and Estelle for a minute and seemed to disappear. The music industry didn't know how to market Fantasia or J Hud either. In the 90s you still had had Janet, Brandy and Whitney who were not light-skinned but did have girl next door looks and "small features" so to speak. Lauryn Hill was dark skinned and wore natural hair and broke records but her mental illness got the best of her. Now it's not a factor because SZA, Lizzo and Ari Lennox are dark skinned with "broad features " and successful in their genres.

I'm Every Woman and Ain't Nobody were top 10 hits in the UK in 1989 when I was a school age gayling. Both bigger hits than the first time they were released.

I'm Every Woman was taken to a new level of ubiquity by Whitney and Ain't Nobody became a talent show staple.

But other than those 2 and I Feel For You, I'd be pressed to hum a Chaka song.

OP you must remember top 40 has reduced everything to the lowest common denominator since Motown, this especially became true during the 1980s. Many successful album oriented artists don’t have many top 10 hits, this is especially true for rock bands and many of them are among the worlds best selling and touring artists of all time. Chaka has always been an album artist. And some of her signature songs don’t even have high peak positions because it stood the test of time popularity growing through the decades. Take an artist like Paula Abdul for example like 7 top 10 hits from that first album. But everybody just remembers “Straight Up”.

[quote]Take an artist like Paula Abdul for example like 7 top 10 hits from that first album. But everybody just remembers “Straight Up”.

FUCK YOU

Bobby Watson from Rufus (who was so sexy back in the day) has a cool Youtube channel where he tells stories about Rufus through the years, including their reunion in 2001, and throws shade about his former bandmates (especially Tony Maiden). Almost all the guys in the band went on to have illustrious careers in the 80s, backing A-list artists and playing on huge records (including Paula Abdul LOL).

In this video Bobby discusses Chaka's ex-husband Richard Holland getting beat down by Andre Fischer (who was later married to Natalie Cole) after rudely interrupting a Rufus studio session. Chaka was married to Holland for 5 years during the height of her career, so I'm sure he was the reason for her missing some crucial opportunities.

Her work with Rufus in the 70s is amazing and still holds up. Little Boy Blue is one of my favorites.

[quote]Racial bias, colorism, agism. Chaka is/was a dark-skinned, curvy, middle-aged black woman. It was amazing artists like Chaka Khan, Tina Turner, Patti LaBelle, and Aretha Franklin found success at all for as long as they did.

That could never happen today. Female "singers" (and I use the term loosely) all have to look like jailbait pole dancers now. It's a shame.

young people- check out 'Tell me something good' from Rufus and Chaka- this was the number 1 song that started it all- Rufus was the opening act for the Rolling Stones arena shows back in 1975. yeah, I know it's super old but you need to know where it all started from.

It certainly wasn't her voice. A lot of other mediocre talents have made it big.

I suggest it just might have something to do with her corrosive, nasty, selfish personality.

Not to mention that breath. Like every drop of blowjob spunk is still festering in her tooth cavities.

r57 while there are a lot of "singers" who look like strippers now, the body positivity movement of the last 10 years or so has allowed singers like Adele and Lizzo to find success.

Like I said before, there was a period in the late 90s/early 2000s when overweight and darkskinned singers didn't have a chance. Back in the days you actually had to have major singing talent as well. A lot of these "singers" today ain't shit and Chaka has let us know that 🤣

She’s first and foremost an r&b singer and the majority of her solo singles and with Rufus were marketed to black radio. As such her success on the Billboard R&B chart is much greater than the Hot 100

Chaka had a lot of issues with Warner. She's still bitter about them.

She was supposed to sing Addicted to Love as a duet with Robert Palmer but her label wouldn't allow it so it was scrapped.

She had recorded another full album after The Woman I Am, but Warner decided to put some of the new songs as part of a hit set, Epiphany.

Chaka also had songs with Rufus that probably would've charted as singles if she released them as a solo artist. What Am I Missing? from Masterjam is one

Anyway, a ton of her and Rufus songs have been sampled everywhere, especially in 90s hip-hop so someone got all the money even if these songs never charted

Op has no concept of how the Billboard charts worked in the 70s-90s. He thinks the Hot 100 was the only singles chart that anyone paid attention to, obviously? The Hot Country Singles, Hot R&B, Hot Adult Contemporary were MAJOR singles charts in that time period. Many many many artists were marketed and promoted to those individual music markets and charted and sold millions of units as a result. It would benefit op to do a bit of billboard chart history research so he doesn’t keep coming off ignorant.

R27 on what planet are Cece and Martha dark skinned?

R62, I remember watching an interview with R&B singer Miki Howard, where she stated that she was not allowed to record a certain song because the record label said it was too "pop." It seems like certain black artists are only allowed to do "R&B music" and are not given the chance to do something else. I remember Chaka's Epiphany album. It was strange in that 10 songs on the album were "best of" songs and six songs were newly recorded songs. Anyway, I enjoy watching Chaka in interviews because she seems to have a sense of humor. My personal favorites by Chaka are "Love You All My Lifetime," "You Can Make the Story Right," and "Eye to Eye."

R66 love you and story were great singles from her 1992 album woman I am

Her cover of The Jackson 5 GOT TO BE THERE is epic. I love the Scavullo cover of the album that spawned it.

Yeah, it was odd that there were so many new songs on a greatest hits album. It was great to get new material from Chaka. And then WB threw on a live version of Tell Me Something Good. I actually really enjoy Epiphany. It's a solid collection but you can tell it's a contract filler collection.

The Woman I Am is a really strong album. It even has a co-write by Dyan Cannon!

I like her cover of the Prince-written song, Eternity. Though I prefer Sheena Easton’s version.

The Shep-Pettibone extended version of Sheena’s Eternity is sweeeeet

“This is My Night” from I FEEL FOR YOU is still as jam. It was produced by The System (“Don’t Disturb This Groove”) and had a fun video co-starring Carol Kane and Wallace Shawn.

r64, Im not even the OP but I think most people here can agree that Chaka Khan had album cuts and singles that could've charted or had chart success. Yes I know that is true for many artists, but its noticeable with Chaka Khan, more so than her peers in the late 70s and 80s simply because Chaka recorded a ton of music.

I mentioned What Cha' Gonna Do For Me earlier, which I personally feel is her most underrated album. I Know You, I Live You (1981) is another overlooked song on that album, produced by the legendary Arif Mardin. Totally had potential to be a #1 hit but wasn't

Slow Dancin' with Rick James is another one that should've been a hit.

[quote] In this video Bobby discusses Chaka's ex-husband Richard Holland getting beat down by Andre Fischer (who was later married to Natalie Cole) after rudely interrupting a Rufus studio session. Chaka was married to Holland for 5 years during the height of her career, so I'm sure he was the reason for her missing some crucial opportunities.

Rufus drummer Andre Fischer was married to Natalie Cole and was one of the producers on "Unforgettable." After their divorce, Natalie said he was verbally and physically abusive to her. Chaka wrote in her autobiography that her husband, Richard Holland, was abusive to her and she once had to pull a gun on him to make him back down. Holland is credited as main writer on "Better Days" one of the highlights of "Ask Rufus" which is my favorite Rufus album.

I thought THROUGH THE FIRE was a huge hit also and have heard it pop up over the years....The #1 reason that i've come across with non-hits that I swore got a ton of airplay: "Adult contemporary" songs.

I think its possible that songs avoided by youth oriented radio stations were super penalized on billboard's top 100 chart. No idea how they came up with those charts but it happens...May also be related to the VH1 vs MTV thing--adult contemporary songs that got endless airplay on VH1 didn't necessarily air at all on MTV and the VH1 top 20 could have #1 songs that weren't getting much radio play. Almost always songs from established artists that made their videos more interesting to VH1.

Among Black female singers, Chaka Khan straddles the line of what I would consider cult artists (Phyllis Hyman, Shirley Bassey) versus mainstream artists (Aretha Franklin, Dionne Warwick). She is universally well-regarded by fans of the genre and they can probably name at least a dozen of her album tracks that they love better than any of her R&B and Pop chart hits. Chaka never quite enjoyed mainstream acclaim consistent with her talent -- unlike Aretha, Dionne and Tina -- but almost every female soul singer who came after her was influenced by her.

I'm also surprised that Through the Fire wasn't a big chart hit. You heard that song all the time on the radio, and it still pops up. I thought it was a big hit.

Back in 84/85, "Through The Fire" set a Hot 100 chart record for having the most weeks on the chart without rising above No. 60. The song is so well-known, and loved, today you would think it was at least a Top 40 hit.

Did you check the ac chart or the r&b????

No because you’re a stupid pos

I agree with the poster who said charts are overrated. Everyone who knows music and appreciates it would know of Chaka Khan and her songs still get played heavily. Charts don't indicate what will be a classic. Just like box office doesn't indicate what movies will become beloved classics. So much garbage is popular and sells well and gets forgotten decades later

Tell me about it

Through the Fire got another generation of fans when Kanye sampled it early in his career and when people still liked him.

I always think of it as a top 40 song but it was big on the AC charts and R&B charts and I think it was one of those songs that has endured.

It was co-written by David Foster and the late, great Cynthia Weil. Also produced by David Foster.

To date, Khan has won ten Grammy Awards, including two as a member of Rufus. She has received 22 Grammy Award nominations, including three as a member of Rufus.

R85 Would you rather have 10 Grammys or 10 #1 hits? Few artists have both, but one pays more than the other.

Chaka Khan was given a huge amount of money for a new contract and recorded I Feel For You which I think was written by Prince. It was a big hit but after that the bottom dropped out and she seemed to disappear from the charts.

She recorded a lot of material in the '80s. She did lots of guest vocals, background vocals.

George Benson's Love Will Come Again works so well because of distinct background vocals.

She also recorded a lot of soundtrack songs and a lot of her songs were used in films (ie. Ain't Nobody in Breakin').

There was no smash follow-up to "I Feel For You" from that album. "This is My Night" was rather mediocre. "Through the Fire", though it has stood the test of time and is now considered a classic, didn't burn up the charts at the time. She really needed a strong follow-up album, and unfortunately, "Destiny" wasn't it.

I think Arif Mardin purposely went for a more "pop" sound following "I Feel For You", but that's not who Chaka Khan was/is. His production of her, which was so spot-on on her late 70's/early 80's efforts, became overly cluttered and noisy, and much of the material he brought to the table was rather average. And after Arif Mardin, she turned to Russ Titelman, who was decidedly NOT an R&B producer, having made his name mainly with singer-songwriters like Randy Newman, George Harrison, Rickie Lee Jones, Christine McVie, and James Taylor.

At the end of the day, the material she recorded after "I Feel For You" just wasn't up to snuff, for the most part. There are some gems, but little that comes close to what she was doing with Rufus in the 70's.

She really should have turned to Quincy Jones following the failure of "Destiny". He thought the world of her as a singer, he had access to the best R&B songwriters of the time, and he knew how to make her sound amazing. He's the one person I can think of who could have really turned things around for her.

In any case, here's one I've always loved that falls into that "cute pop song, but not really what Chaka is all about" category. She sings the hell out of it, but there's just something missing.

"It's My Party" (1988) (Note: when you mainly appeared on a TV screen in your own video in the 80's, that was never a good sign.)

[quote] George Benson's Love Will Come Again works so well because of distinct background vocals.

R88, it helps if you post a link to the song. Yes, this is a good one.

[quote] At the end of the day, the material she recorded after "I Feel For You" just wasn't up to snuff, for the most part. There are some gems, but little that comes close to what she was doing with Rufus in the 70's.

Agree. Once Warner Bros. started messing with her the quality of the music decreased. She certainly had moments after "I Feel For You" but that was her last really good album.

In common with so many African-American music recording artists Aretha Franklin was brought up in church and her first music was gospel. AF (again like many others) moved over to more earthly soul, jazz and R&B.

Aretha Franklin knew enough about the business and was sure enough of her own talents to keep reinventing herself as years went on, this helped introduce new generations to not just whatever new release but her old stuff as well.

Dionne Warwick also grew up in church and crossed over from gospel to other forms of music. Her career however was not nearly as steady compared to say Aretha Franklin.

Tina Turner was soul, rock and pop. Despite her early successes from 1960's and 1970's once she left Ike Turner her career faltered, this to point she almost couldn't get arrested in USA. Suits just didn't want to bother. It was to Europe and Europeans that put Tina Turner back in play and on map and she never had to look back.

Sweet Thing with Prince.

Outside of the big hits like Feel For You, most of her mid-80s and early 90s stuff isn't for me even though she's spectacularly talented.

I love her newer song from a few years ago. It's got 38 million views on YouTube. Pretty good, Chaka!

[quote] I Feel For You which I think was written by Prince

See R43.

It is weird that Chaka had so few hits on her own. I Feel For You is pretty much it.

Sweet Thing and Ain't Nobody (both with Rufus) were huge R&B hits, I think, and have earned a favorite classic status over time, but they were never Hot 100 chart toppers (Sweet Thing made the top 10). Same with I'm Every Woman, which I think went top 20. And Love Me Still is another classic that slowly became a "quiet storm" classic.

Those songs are so familiar and loved but for whatever reason they didn't have consistent chart success. The older I get the more convinced I am that the charts are fraudulent and driven by bribes/payola, even now.

I think what Chaka needs is a really prominent feature. Like a guest vocal on a Gorillaz single -- to remind the general public of what a legend she is.

Funk/Soul had a hard time charting during the early 80’s. Bands like SOS Band, Shalamar, Gap Band had hits but didn’t make a dent in the pop charts. Chaka was no different.

True r98. Radio was much more segregated back then.

She deserved bigger hits

R98

True, but S.O.S band, Gap Band and Shalamar had some fucking great dance club hits.

Where are my roller skates?

Boogie down!

You dropped a bomb on me!

Burn rubber!

Thank you r68 and r93 for two I hadn’t heard.

Love this song. Kind of world weary but still hopeful.

She did a cover of Prince’s “Sign ‘O’ The Times” that was pretty great too.

Gladys Knight didn’t have many pop hits either

Rufus was 50/50 black and white, R39. I think the difference between Whitney and Chaka was also that Whitney was an excellent live performer. Chaka, although she had an extraordinary voice, was mostly a disappointment live, because she could not connect to an audience and she had limited interpretive skills.

And she couldn’t dance for shit. Amazing voice though.

Steve Winwood had Chaka Khan do the background vocal on his big #1 hit "Higher Love."

Chaka was blessed to have an extraordinary voice. Because even in this performance, where she looks pregnant and high, she still knocks it out of the park.

Fun fact the biggest song of 1996 never charted on the Billboard Hot 100. It’s all rather technical.

R65 They aren’t. Not only is Cece Peniston not dark skinned she probably would have passed a 100 yrs ago. That’s the idiotic colorist poster. I suspect he may be blind and has never actually seen these r&b stars he writes about.

r113 - what was the biggest song of 1996??

The biggest hit single of 1996 was Macarena (Bayside Boys Mix) by Los del Rio. And I bought the single!!! It was wildly popular.

I could've sworn Macarena was a number-one hit on the Hot 100. Wow. Never knew it didn't chart.

The Bayside Boys Mix reached number one on the Hot 100, but not the original version.

R114 I disagree on Cece Peniston being white-passing but she is not dark-skinned and that's for sure.

[quote] Chaka, although she had an extraordinary voice, was mostly a disappointment live, because she could not connect to an audience and she had limited interpretive skills.

No. Chaka didn't always deliver live because she had debilitating addiction issues. However, on a good night she could set the stage on fire. I've seen her on good nights. Chaka was an erratic performer but has a phenomenal voice, is a great interpreter and definitely connects with her audience. Whitney was special because she could be high as a kite and still knock it out of the park.

Yeah, CeCe Peniston is a typical light-skinned African American woman. Neither she nor Martha Wash is dark-skinned. Both are around the same complexion.

It's not just about skin color. It's facial features too. Whitney Houston was brown skinned but was tall and statuesque and had "finer" features. Many white men found her attractive just like they did with Iman and Naomi Campbell. All are dark brown but fit the European beauty standard. Black men obsess more about skin color and long hair and curves while white men care more about the facial features and slim figures on average.

Funny we've mentioned Cece Peniston, IMO she is very similar to Chaka in that they have outstanding voices, iconic songs, but their chart performance didn't quite match up for various reasons. Finally didn't hit #1 on the Hot 100 either. They also are both good looking women, but never had great styling to match their illustrious voices.

[quote]Chaka, although she had an extraordinary voice, was mostly a disappointment live, because she could not connect to an audience and she had limited interpretive skills.

r109 & r120 Chaka has said that she changes up every live performance of her songs so they will not sound exactly like the record. She believes the people pay for a unique live performance every time. That may just be her blowing smoke because she doesn't have the range any longer, but I don't think so. She's always been like that. I think her growing up singing in clubs, jazz conditioned her to do that. Unfortunately, people know every note of her hits and it leaves them disappointed when she goes too far off course. Despite her amazing voice she is not good at restyling her songs live. The singers who grew up in church are better at it, like Aretha, Whitney, Faith Evans, Kelly Price etc. They know how to interpret the same song differently every time, feel the audience, and make it sound just as good or better than the record.

r120 that is one of her best live performances, thanks for posting. 2:05-2:17 is sublime and one of my favorite runs of any singer

R124, I agree. She had such incredible control, could access the entire breadth of her vocal range and could execute runs effortlessly. She was not raised and vocally trained in the church, or elsewhere, so she was born with that gift.

Fun fact: Chaka's 1981 "What Cha' Gonna Do For Me" was written by '70s blue-eyed-soul cutie Ned Doheny and Hamish Stuart of the Average White Band and released on AWB's 1980 album Shine.

If you haven't heard Doheny, his stuff is worth a listen.

Doheny's best song:

R26 this is so hilarious I didn't know Jody Watley was Black until now.

R5 I’m surprised “Through The Fire” reached only #60 on the charts because I’m 35, wasn’t even alive when that song was released and I know that song.

I feel like it was always on Magic 106.7 and on “Best of the 80’s” CD commercials growing up.

I love this song.

I don’t think you guys have mentioned that she was fat. And fat in the 80’s.

She was a bit tubby in the '80s, and the '80s sure didn't like fatties.

This was the time of the Ann Wilson Got Fat hysteria.

But the memories of Chaka shaking her size-6 hips and tits around with Rufus went a long way.

Chaka was very sexy in the 70s. She and Natalie Cole were slender and could really sing.

Aretha (the musical mother of both Chaka and Natalie) must have felt pressured to bring the sexy because even she decided to slim down and wear revealing outfits to compete with them.

R131, here's the video with the actual live audio of that performance. Chaka's live performances may be spotty, but man, when she's in her zone, she's a phenom on stage.

Took awhile, but Ned Doheny finally got his rightful due.

Ned Doheny - Get It Up For Love

Many AA women are genetically programmed if you will towards being on heavier side of things. More so as they get older and or have babies. Oprah Winfrey went through one or more periods where she slimmed down and it didn't gook all that great on her. OTOH she looked far more healthy when she put some of the weight back on.

Aretha Franklin slimming down wasn't best look for her either, it seemed a bit unhealthy,

Chaka looks pregnant at R112 because she was—with her son Damien, who would grow up to shoot his friend in the face and cost Chaka $1.2 million in a wrongful death lawsuit.

R117 Because I’m not talking about that song. No Doubts Don’t speak never charted on hot 100

Average African American male prefers his women the way many AA females often are; full bust but especially full hips, thighs and ass.

"You will lose him if you give him lollipops, when you know he's crazy just to have some chops".

Tina Turner OTOH was a sexy AA woman in a whole other way. Thin, shapely with legs that went on forever. She was more along lines of say a Whitney Houston or Naomi Campbell, that is sort of black woman many white/European guys would date or at least get with.

Robert De Niro, one Italian-American man who is up front about loving black women (he's fucked and married them for years now), takes things as they come.

Diahnne Abbott (Robert De Niro's first wife) was thin and quite attractive.

No matter how Chaka Khan's music charted, or didn't, years and years from now people will still be listening to "Through the Fire" and "Ain't Nobody" - both now considered classics - and not listening to the auto-tuned swill that charts nowadays.

That's what ultimately counts.

Did Chaka finally release an autobiography? What's the title?

Chaka is a lot like Kylie Minogue. It's a mystery why she wasn't more popular in the U.S. I wonder why?

I think Kylie got overshadowed by Madonna at her peak, and that's why she didn't really brake in the US.

OMG sorry, "that's why she didn't really BREAK in the US" is what I meant.

Fucking autocorrect can eat my ass!

R145 It’s funny how these things are relative. I’m guessing internationally she maintained the popularity she sustained with Rufus. Chaka Khan is wildly popular here in the states among blacks, becoming a soul icon in the 80s. Most US artists depend on the black demographic for success whether they crossover or not.

Too much screaming.

Too much Chaka, not enough Kahn.

R150 I don’t know why this made me laugh so much. Thank you.

R120, that's a great live performance of Roll me through the Rushes, which was always one of my favorite Chaka songs. But I do think the album version is better.

I remember seeing a Quincy Jones concert where he did some songs from his broad repertoire with invited vocalist, one was Chaka Khan. I can't remember which song is it was she was doing, but she started with it and clearly wasn't putting that much effort into the performance. After a minute you could hear Quincy Jones yelling at her 'come on, come on'. After that things got a bit more interesting. I think she's just lazy and needs a strong producer to coax a good performance out of her.

Smokin' Room by Rufus is one of their most beautiful songs ever. Chaka's vocal prowess cannot be denied!

I want JanBot to see this. This is real music, by a real singer.

Who but Cha.

[quote]Chaka looks pregnant at [R112] because she was—with her son Damien, who would grow up to shoot his friend in the face and cost Chaka $1.2 million in a wrongful death lawsuit.

A spin off thread, why didn't Chaka's kids have more success? From what I know both her son and daughter had two very musically inclined parents, and her daughter can sing.

Very few kids who were the offspring of legends become successful in their own right. I can only think of a few off the top of my head (Liza Minnelli and Natalie Cole).

R147, maybe what you really meant was "beark," as in BEARKING.

I've told this story on here before but why not again? In the 1980s, I saw CK perform in Your Arms Too Short to Box with God in Pittsburgh. At some point the sound system went out, but Chaka kept on singing, loudly enough to be heard throughout the theater.

[quote] At one point the backup vocalists are even mixed higher. Why?

So people's ears don't bleed.

The charts don't owe Chaka shit.

I think her music may have been too R&B for pop radio but her entire Warner Bros discography is terrific. I enjoy all her albums even if the later ones are not quite as strong. I don't think there's anything in the vaults aside from the duet of Addicted to Love with Robert Palmer which was by all accounts recorded. Chaka and WB still seem to have a contentious relationship so I doubt anything in the vaults (if there is anything) will be released or a proper reissue campaign.

R144, the title is “My Name is My Hit”

r160 and I'm sure Chaka gives far less than shit about a chart.

Gays are obsessed with pop charts like straights are obsessed with sports stats.

How has no one mentioned this groove yet?

Or this song which reached a new audience after being featured in 27 Dresses.

Chaka mentioned in a recent interview that she recorded an entire album with Prince that's still in the vaults. I'd love to hear that because this was recorded during Prince's prime, and I bet it's incredible.

Fuck WB for keeping that away from everyone to hear!

R166, that is one of my favorites. She was SANGIN that, with Cissy Houston and David Lasley wailing on background vocals.

R167 Lawd I would love to hear that too.

One of my favs

If you weren't dancing to Chaka's Life Is A Dance: The Remix Project in the late '80s, you weren't alive.

I'm Every Woman, Ain't Nobody and I Feel For You have never left the radio, despite being over 40 years old (or almost, in the case of I Feel For You.)

She's had numerous hits throughout the world, the songs have been covered and have been huge hits, and she has been sampled to death. The first few bars of Fate made up the entire music to Stardust's smash "Music Sounds Better With You."

Her last album went top 20 in the UK (2019) and the two singles got a lot of airplay here.

She's been top 40 in the USA 16 times (incl. the Rufus hits.) I agree, it probably should have been more but they never managed to keep the momentum going after I Feel For You. Whenever Chaka has had a big hit, they've never followed it with a logical choice, and, add to that the fact that Chaka has never been a writer, she has always had to rely on other people writing for her. This doesn't always work.

I think she's had a great career and seems to be well respected, despite her difficulties. To have high quality hits still in rotation, to still release new music and still be able to tour, to have six decades in the business, that's much more than most every achieve.

Prince and Chaka live in London 1998

"Ain't Nobody" has always been my one chance at "I can name that song in one note."

R173 That guitar riff. It just reminds one of graffiti on the subway as you get off the train and day turns into night. Something about it is so hip and funky yet so smooth. And I wasn’t even born yet when it came out but those are the feelings it invokes.

Loved this song as a teen gayling. I knew that this song was about sex…it’s barely subtle…

[quote] Whenever Chaka has had a big hit, they've never followed it with a logical choice, and, add to that the fact that Chaka has never been a writer, she has always had to rely on other people writing for her. This doesn't always work.

She wrote "Sweet Thing" and allegedly co-wrote "Tell Me Something Good." Her compositions were not necessarily the hits but she has some of the most memorable Rufus songs:

Pack's My Bags

Stay

You Got The Love

Magic In Your Eyes

Egyptian Song

What Am I Missing?

Why didn’t Stephanie Mills have more hits ?

Again with this?

Stephanie Mills had three number one R&B singles, won two Grammy awards (R&B) and three of her albums went either gold or platinum.

What have we been saying throughout this thread? R&B artists often do well enough in that category, but don't always have huge chart successes elsewhere such as "rock"

Rest of it is what it is for many recording artists. Ms. Mill's reached her peak of success in 1980's. By 1990's she was back on Broadway (revival of "The Wiz" which failed, doing gospel, and trying her hand at other things.

Times and musical styles or tastes change. Some artists can and have successfully navigate these changes, others because of perhaps limitations of their own talent or whatever don't fare very well.

Steph is doing well touring, I've been told. And she takes her son with her. I love how she treats him with respect.

Stephanie Mills was a midget who was uglier than a dog's ass. She was never going to be a huge star.

I love Stephanie's music, but her worship of all things Farrakhan tempers my admiration of her as a person.

STEP OFF MY THREAD, CUNT!

The simple answer is coke.

Lots and lots of coke.

Truckloads of coke.

Mountains of coke.

Stephanie Mills and Chaka Khan did a VERZUZ performance, in which Chaka wasn't performing up to snuff. Fortunately, Stephanie was, and she helped Chaka by singing along with her, as a type of background vocalist or duet partner, depending on which song Chaka was trying to sing.

Stephanie and Chaka are good friends, and they both share something else in common other than being phenomenal singers: they can't stand Anita Baker!

WTF, I never knew about Stephanie Mills and Farrakhan. What the hell is she thinking?? He's a NAZI and a far right agitateur.

Mills' obsession with both Farrakhan AND Michael Jackson are WEIRD. She still sees herself as MJ's girlfriend. As for Farrakhan, it's weird and creepy why she adores him - and is so blatant and open about it.

Stephanie Mills was and still is a hot mess. That is one of reasons her career tanked.

Geez, this is awful!!

Stephanie Mills like many other AA not quite but really are has-been recording artists does well enough touring and so forth. This largely comes from support of *The Community*, that is demographic of blacks who grew up in church and or otherwise espouse conservative AA views and so forth.

Truth to tell that's what it comes down to good majority of these AA recording artists people keep asking "why didn't they have more success". They either cannot or will not do things that enable them to crossover say into two mainstream categories: Rock and Pop music.

Michael Jackson, Whitney Houston, Tina Turner and few others were able to make that transition. Others remain largely in R&B with bit of perhaps gospel and what qualifies as "soul" music today.

R187, I cringe whenever I see Stephanie on television or on social media talking about MJ like they were going to walk down the aisle or something. I just feel so ashamed for her…

Nicki Minaj bears a slight resemblance to Chaka. But with only one hundredth of Chaka’s talent.

MJ has some weird effect on straight women because apart from Stephanie, you have Lisa Marie, Brooke Shields, Liz Taylor, Maureen McCormick and Tatum O'Neil who all were defensive of him.

Stephanie seems…foolish and definitely living in the past…love most of her music though.