Why would anybody actually want a child?

To do the laundry.

Some people have more love inside them than you appear to, OP.

[quote]I'd hate to have somebody dependant on me.

Maybe your children could check your spelling.

I had a brief - 30 seconds - longing once for a child in my 68 years, but quickly extinguished the thought.

After all, a Porsche 911 is way more fun.

Children?

I've always thought that the majority, but not all, people who want children want them for one of the following reasons:

- they had a great childhood and family and want to recreate that joy for themselves

- they had a terrible childhood and want to have a do-over family

- narcissists and want a mini me

- self-hating and want a child to "fix" what they thought was wrong with themselves to create a "perfect" version of themselves

I’ve been on vacation for the past week with two entitled teenaged brats (step children) and I’ve asked myself that same question every goddamned minute of this trip.

R4 here. To clarify, I don't have a 911, but would prefer it to a child.

What I do have is a dozen good friends, a fantastic partner, and the freedom to do what we want. All because I had no children to sap my money.

There's plenty of love in my life without them.

Children can’t be trusted to do laundry, R1.

What with the pre-treatment of stains; the right combination of detergent, chlorine bleach, OxyClean, bicarbonate of soda, and white vinegar; and knowing the correct water temperature and when a second rinse is desirable, this is no job for children.

And we didn’t even get into drying.

R8 that is a 💯 selfish outlook. I’m sure it’s just how you are in every area.

Tax write-off.

Children would be convenient during weed-pulling season.

I’m all for giving toddlers toys like toy weed eaters, toy vacuums, etc. when they’re old enough to ride a bicycle they can start yard and housework.

My mom gave birth to me to be a servant in her home. I cooked, cleaned, yardworked my ass off!

R10, you don't know me, and it's not true. They all call me Mr. Sunshine. There is absolutely no correlation between not having or wanting children and being selfish. And all of my friends know I'll drive them wherever and run errands for them if need be.

I never understood the "selfish" accusation if a person has made the wise decision to not have a child, at all.

To be "selfish" requires, in this context, that the selfishness is having a negative effect on a child. If you have a child, and you don't put the time, effort, anguish, and joy of being a parent in, then yes, I could see where that's "selfish" because that's hurting another being.

Being "selfish" can't happen if you made the wise decision to not bring a child into the world in the first place.

If my freedom to do what I want , when I want, or not do what I don't want to do is my experience because I don't have a children, that's not "selfish".

That's being a responsible adult.

I've seen too many parents who are truly selfish. They shouldn't have had any children because they're terrible parents.

Stupidity

Children are helpful to Jana.

R2 and R8 might be attempting pointless bitchery, but there are many reasons people HAVE children that are plenty selfish and have nothing to do with love.

I know enough about myself to accept that I wouldn’t be a good parent and that having a child for any reason would be nothing but selfishness on my part.

I feel sad for kids who have parents that didn’t know this about themselves.

It's instink.

Criticizing the intentionally childless for being "selfish" strikes me as so odd. If anything, I feel the reverse accusation is often more apt

Because nature subconsciously instructs every living organism to reproduce itself and survive. Why do female cats desire to mate during estrus when the male cat's penis is barbed and mating is painful for female cats? Because cats need to survive as a species to supply us with video content for the dollface threads. It's the rules of nature. There is no logic involved.

R16 My frau friend also says people without kids "live selfishly." She can but doesn't always mean it in a bad way-- she just literally can't live by her own desires like we can. She can't sleep in, or binge watch Netflix, or even shit in peace because the toddler always needs something. Sometimes she's saying "selfish living" as a matter-of-fact lifestyle change, sometimes it's coming from a place of jealousy. But hey, you chose baby life...

r9 Not to mention they'll likely just end up eating the laundry detergent, if the behavior of this new generation is anything to go by.

Well Tide Pods ARE irresistible

I don't like kids and I never wanted kids. Gay people (M & F) having kids is anathema to me, but you do your thing if you must.

I will give you a quote from my straight perennially single bff (I also mentioned her in the GenX/retirement thread); feel free to use it if you like. I've been quoting her for years.

"When you have a kid, you're [italic]making[/italic] a [italic]person[/italic]. I don't even want to make a [italic]sandwich[/italic]!"

More women than ever are childless by choice. All it takes is one flight with a screaming kid to find out what it's about. Go to Target on a Saturday. The parents look as miserable as the kids. Life is too short. Most babies are an accident or "surprise".

I only know maybe five people who had a kid because they really wanted one and were prepared for the hood and the bad. They don’t constantly complain about being parents because they understand that’s what they signed up for and they enjoy their kids. It’s sad there aren’t more parents like that. All kids should grow up with parents who wanted them and were prepared for the hard work and commitment. I never feel bad about not having them because I know I don’t have the emotional stability, financial resources or the parenting instinct.

a quick visit to the regretful parents subreddit can be quite enlightening. A huge amount of parents wish they hadn’t done it but it’s socially impossible to discuss it out loud.

[quote]Criticizing the intentionally childless for being "selfish" strikes me as so odd. If anything, I feel the reverse accusation is often more apt

As far as selfish goes: I've never heard a parent or wannabe parent explain their desire for kids without the words "I WANT ... "

Wow reading that subReddit makes me realize why so many people out there seem so bitter and angry all the time for no good reason

"prepared for the hood and the bad"

Yes. The hoods, and the bad. Whenever I read some account of a young criminal, an abusive thug, a chronic drug abuser, someone profoundly mentally ill, I think about their parents and what anguish they must be going through.

Another reason I'm glad I've never had any desire for kids

R32 I think that poster meant "good" but made a typo

I know that. I was using the typo and running with it to make a different point. But I like that typo, regardless.

R16 hit all the points. I can remember being a little girl and my father calling me selfish for not wanting to get married and have children. I am fortunate to have maintained wonderful friendships with girlfriends I've known since childhood that have given me a place and role in their children's lives. I love being the favorite Auntie!

Have a date on Saturday nite.

Having a child when you're not financially sound should be judged WAY more harshly than splurging for a car/house/etc. My cousin worked (still works) part-time shifts two days a week when she purposefully got pregnant. Now she often borrows money from her mom, her sister and my mom and expects us to babysit because we're family.

She had the gall to call her 22 year old sister selfish for wanting to live like a normal single girl her age. She doesn't see herself as a "taker" because she's a mom-- never mind all the support we give her.

r29 That awkward moment when you find that subreddit open in a tab on your your parent(s)'s computer.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

^ Her kids are in their late 30s and mid 40s, now. I wonder how damaged they are as adults because I doubt she hid that well.

Frau alert at R10.

R4/R8 sounds like fun to me and also someone with the self-insight and wisdom to make excellent choices. Wish the world had more like you, R4/R8.

Some people love children, and some people genuinely enjoy family life.

It's one of those inexplicable things the rest of us just have accept, without being able to understand it or empathize with the feelings involved. Like golf, or escargot.

I adore my fur children 🐶 🐱. They give SO much comfort and joy . They are delightful

Children would only get in the way of my erotic lifestyle.

I’ve been guilty of saying ‘I’m too selfish to have children’ but it is a ridiculous word to use for people who choose not to have them. Most people who choose to have a kid (as in create a new one, not adopt one) do it for selfish reasons (eg for their own pleasure) The kid doesn’t exist till you create it so you’re not doing it any favours choosing to have one.

I think this thread has gone on long enough without the required musical number

I got pregnant by accident and by the time I found out, I’d moved 800 km to escape from the abusive father, to a remote small town where abortion wasn‘t an option (I was lucky to even have a doctor, tbh).

I always did want one child, but wasn’t sure why; still I raised my kid as a single parent and never complained - that’s what I’d signed up for. From the start, though, I felt deep love for my child and wanted to protect him, and I managed to raise him well and provide him with all the experiences I could. He’s now 23 and at university, creative and brilliant, and an amazing musician, so whew!!

Still - it was HARD. The thought of people raising kids they resent is so sad. I see parents all the time snapping at them, being angry - like bitch, please - you’re the one who brought them into the world! They didn’t ask for it!

Kids can be a delight if you’re into that; if you’re not, then simple: don’t have kids! Don’t declare child-free people as selfish, ffs. In a way it’s selfish to bring into existence a being who will eventually experience pain and have to confront their mortality.

I don’t regret the lost earnings and sacrifices, because it’s what I wanted and I’m happy with how it turned out, but at the same time I don’t try to make my child-free sister and cousin feel guilty for their choice to make money, travel, and have that freedom!

[quote]I got pregnant by accident

Mom?

[quote] "Why would anybody actually want a child?"

What do YOU think?

R47, I like the cut of your jib.

Kudos and you have my admiration.

R6 Add people who want someone to look after them when they're old to that list. I asked my mother why she had children and that's what she told me. (It did not make me feel good.) And people who don't want to be alone.

I think for many people, having a child gives their life purpose and meaning -- not that you can't find that in other ways, because many child-free people (and I am among them) have other passions and interests in life that fill that same need, but we are frankly in the minority.

And we're more selfish. I'll cop to that.

I’m single, 41, good body, decent income with potential for more in the future.

I hope to have at least one son. I want to go the egg donor/surrogacy route,

I’ve never been the kind of person that goes out and parties, I’ve always been a homebody. I don’t date much because I can’t find anybody good enough for me, and I’m way too good for anybody interested in me.

So having a child works out well for me. It would make life more interesting, and it’s something I’ve always wanted for my life.

R53, glad self-confidence is not a problem for you. Based on your post, I'm assuming you'll want confirmation of your sperm donor's IQ, height, education (Ivy only?), and general pedigree.

We wouldn't want the kiddo not to be good enough for you.

r54 That person said egg donor. Pretty sure that's a guy who would be supplying his own sperm at the "Build-a-Baby" facility.

R54 - I believe R53 will be supplying his own sperm, but your question still stands for the egg donor. I know that there are catalogs of sperm donors that list all those criteria, I'm guessing they do the same for eggs? Have no idea.

My question for R53 is about the baby's sex -- are you dead set on it a plan to manipulate the semen to increase the outcome of a boy (or since there are likely to be a few fertilized eggs choose that way?) - again not sure how well that can be done these days or not. I do know from my sisters and friend that boys tend to be "easier" than girls - at least through HS graduation.

R54 here. Thanks for the correction on egg donor. Oops.

I look at the exhaustion of parents, their unhappiness with parenting itself and think, "Why would I ever want to do that?"

Most parents that I see experience no joy with their children, they're burdens. They become another set of chores to be done and a huge financial drain.

I see very few parents who enjoy children, truly want to dedicate all their time to them and would have more if they could afford them.

Having kids is pointless unless you're rich enough to hire nannies to help out every now and then, and to also afford the child's needs without stressing. Seriously, why have a kid if you're just going to be worrying all the time about the cost of braces, school supplies, college, toys?

Also, I feel like life is very hard and overwhelming for young people starting out, especially if they come from nothing/no financial help at home. I feel like parents should be able to leave their child an inheritance, and to help pay for rent in the young adult years while the child studies without the pressure of bills. Lot's of young people commit suicide because they can't manage college and working at the same time.

It's wrong to have kids when you have nothing to offer them. No, love's not enough, and yes, I'm aware rich people can be terrible parents too.

Middle and upper class people have their careers and education but for poor people, their values and reason for living tends to be centred on family.

Exactly, r23.

Who begins to understand the frauen mind?

R16 has the right idea.

Oh, I don't know. Maybe you're a geeky gay guy in a relationship with a much-hotter guy who — for instance — ran for president and now has a high-powered job in, let's say, Washington D.C. Such a person might want a baby (or, better, two!) as "relationship insurance."

[quote]Why would anybody actually want a child?

Comme ci comme ça.

Having a kid was the greatest joy of my life. Full stop. Not suggesting it’s for everyone. People who have kids most certainly aren’t special. But it works for a lot of people.

r61 you are an asshat.

R66, would you say there's any practical reason you wanted a child, or did you just... want a child?

I don't have children because I've never once in my life wanted one. And when it comes to practical and logical reasoning, many times the brain makes a decision on emotional grounds, and then the conscious mind runs around finding "logical" reasons to justify a decision that was made on purely emotional grounds. Lots of people aren't aware of that process, so I respect people who know when they're acting because of feelings, like that person above.

I teach high school/college, but DAMN the stories about neglected kids from my grade school colleagues. Some kindergarteners aren't even coming in potty trained anymore. My one friend has even had parents who asked her to change their kid's diapers-- no thank you, and why the fuck would you want another adult near your child's genitals?

The strain on teachers has gotten so bad post pandemic... not looking forward to what happens down the line with Roe v Wade setbacks.

[quote]Some kindergarteners aren't even coming in potty trained anymore.

Those kids might actually be autistic. Many of them take longer to potty train.

[quote] So having a child works out well for me. It would make life more interesting, and it’s something I’ve always wanted for my life.

Let's hope that your having a child works out well ... for the child.

R47, I don't think you answered the question at OP.

R70 Autistic kids in our districts get aides and accomodations according to their unique situation. I'm talking neurotypical kids who just... weren't bothered with. Kids whose parents have neglected the basics so badly that the teacher feels pressured to be a substitute mom/dad FOR them, because otherwise they'd be helpless. You'd be surprised.

r74 Well, then yes, that's incredibly trifling. It's not that difficult to potty train a damn kid. My younger brother and I are a whole generation apart, so I was a teen when he was being potty trained and helped with the process.

That may be also why I generally don't want kids. I got my "parenting" out of the way babysitting my damn baby siblings because my parents waited forever to have other kids after I was born.

"Kids whose parents have neglected the basics so badly that the teacher feels pressured to be a substitute mom/dad FOR them"

Tell me, are these kids from poor families, where the parents are both working three jobs to pay the rent? Or some other reason?

It's no one problem but many we're facing on the education front, R76. Yes, growing wage inequality is one of (perhaps the most) pervasive. So are the parents who let tech babysit their kids to the point they can't cope with difficult emotions on their own. So is pandemic learning which shot their motivation and stunted social/emotional growth by two years. So is a culture which celebrates extreme politics and hateful rhetoric.

Students used to be the saving grace of a hard job, but they've gotten harder to handle and motivate post pandemic. It's too simple to say higher pay alone will solve the teacher shortage. Almost all of us would take better working conditions over more money.

To distract small, foreign factions that break into your home.

I never felt ready for life’s “transitions”. I was so stressed out navigating milestones earlier in life, like SAT’s, college, job searches. The world felt hypermetric, or too competitive, at each juncture. I didn’t want to be measured for another 18 years by how fast my kid trained for the potty, spoke sentences, learned to swim, grew tall, etc.

So parenting intimidated me. I suspected that I’d have kids who needed more than I could ever provide. So I didn’t orient myself in that direction. I did have options, but felt it would be deceptive to marry and have a kid. I know that would have somehow “legitimized” at some points, and I remember being 30 and seeing guys with kids considered more established than me, “salt of the Earth”.

I was lucky in other ways and I found things I was good at. You might say I found other ways to add to society, and some of that felt good. Talk to me in another 20 years. I will know more about it, and myself.

[quote]Why would anybody actually want a child?

If you have to ask, then you'll never understand.

Their little hands make me look HUGE!

I think some people genuinely want them, can afford to take care of them, and do a great job raising them. Can’t relate but respect for those people.

For a bigger number though, I think it’s a way to distract yourself from your own mortality, have a chance to experience childhood again, avoid loneliness and fit into societal norms. Not saying that having kids does any of this, but those are the reasons I see.

I have a single frau friend who had a kid late in life because she was lonely. She’s even lonelier with the kid. Maybe that will change once the kid is older, but by then she will be in her 60s. Seems easier to have pets and make some friends.

[quote]She’s even lonelier with the kid. Maybe that will change once the kid is older, but by then she will be in her 60s.

Ha. One of the issues about having a kid is that it doesn't guarantee that you'll get along and like each other - or that the kid will turn out the way you'd like. I'll concede that being a single parent is probably lonely - you don't have a partner to share things with and the kid is going to be too young to be a friend.

for the gay men who need it

Also that site links to this one

My grandmother apparently did it so she wouldn't have to do dishes. No joke, asked her one day why she never does dishes, her reply was, 'I didn't have 8 children so I could do the dishes.'

Depends what you want to do with it

I’m gay, pessimistic of the future, and generally avoidant of people/responsibility. So, not having kids is the only thing in life that comes100% easily to me. Everything else in life is struggling to do this and that, make money, call friends, tolerate idiots, etc. But I can not have a kid quite easily. It’s my superpower! If I were to be thankful for something in my life, it would be this ability.

Are you really unable to understand why people want to have children OP? Really? I suspect you are a troll or else a total narcissist.

Existence is slavery. No one asks to be born into this world. Antinatalists are growing and it’s beautiful to see.

I never knew people like this when I was in school, but apparently for millennials (10 years younger than me) many women aspire to be stay at home moms.

I can’t think of a single woman I know who’s my own age and who is a stay-at-home mom. Even our moms growing up all worked.

But I know a lot of millennial women who are. And they have 4 or 5 kids, even when they are supposedly middle class.

I have a neighbor who started having kids in her 20s and has a new “surprise” baby every 4 years or so. That way, she never had to get a job. Her husband started making noises about her getting a job and surprise! Shortly thereafter she was pregnant with number 5.

Meanwhile she’s wider than she is tall. She gets fatter with every baby. Yet they live a supposedly middle class lifestyle.. big house, etc. don’t know how they do it. Husband looks exhausted and depressed all the time. I keep expecting him to disappear into the night.

Husband should get a vasectomy, then, R91.

r92 Exactly. He's a moron.

Ah, loneliness as a parent...

I once worked with a co-worker whose son was her whole live. The divorce had been bitter, she was estranged from her family (no clue why), and didn't appear to have any friends, for years she said "Bobby and I don't need anyone else". But then her kid hit puberty, and suddenly he wanted to go to the movies with his friends and not his mom, and started talking about girls! My co-worker felt utterly betrayed, like the foundations of her universe had been shaken, because apparently she'd believed that her kid would devote his whole life to her, the way she'd tried to devote her whole life to him. I have noidea what happened to her and her son after I left that job, but i can guess.

Theres a great word for:that phenomenon: "spousification."

I had an element of that growing up, it's psychologically warping for the child,mreally messes with the attachment system

Unloading the dishwasher. Taking out the trash and recycling. If it's a girl, maybe some baking for your sweet tooth. Making martinis for their uncles.

You can utilize them to get out of plans suggested by really annoying friends, or fcuk buddies who think actually that you also like them??

Heat.

I hope someone has already said this. It is DL after all.

MAYBE THEY NEED A LITTLE PUBLICITY

Lesbian here. Never felt any sort of "biological clock" that so many women say they feel. I grew up in chaos with 3 siblings and so I LOVE my quiet place. I would never want to pass on my depression, obesity and other issues to a child. My brother had two and both have those issues and they make his life hell. Honestly, this world is pretty shitty and I'm barely hanging on...why on earth would I want to subject another human being to this miserable existence? And yes, it would be a different story if I had money but my parents were poor, uneducated and stupid as fuck but they thought having four kids was a grand idea. They were horrible parents and I never felt love from them.

Having kids is one of the most selfish things you can do.

I don't want children because taking care of them is boring but going after my hobbies is not and without children I can easily afford them.

Am a woman of childbearing age (ugh) who likes kids and finds them sweet and fun, but every time I see a stressed depressed faded and frazzled mum out and about in the shops or at the park or at local events, dragging her whining shrieking toddler behind her or ushering her sullen defiant teen along while her DH/Brau stands off and does nothing to help, I'm thanking my stars I don't have any. Seriously I couldn't do it, I'm single and childless with insomnia issues and emotional problems as it is.

R94 some straight women, especially the bored rich entitled ones, get really fucking weird about their sons.

One of my wealthy hockey-mom aunts was like this with her youngest son, her little genius princeling athlete who could do no wrong in her eyes. Once he grew up, started fucking his female classmates, dropped out and had a few mental breakdowns, she couldn't cope and broke down herself. Then some years later, once he became single for a stretch of time, she started getting really into yoga and spirituality, paying a lot of attention to her body, trying to be some ethereal hot hippie MILF. There's definitely some emotional incest going on there in both directions. They seem unhinged, I try to stay far away from them both.

[quote] Theres a great word for:that phenomenon: "spousification."

Never heard of it, and it sounds like rubbish to me!

I have mental health issues (PTSD, ADHD) that, even if I wanted children, would make it difficult to raise them. I’m also extremely introverted and would not have the first clue or desire how to socialize my kids.

And in my experience, which has been mentioned, most people want BABIES, not children. Babies are cute and helpless and friends and family members will cluck over them and buy them gifts and shit. But that doesn’t last long. Once they learn how to walk and talk and develop opinions of their own and start disobeying and not agreeing with their parents it all ends, doesn’t it?

My gay-leaning bi closet-case cousin looked rough enough after his beard wedding to his Frau hag, but post two kids? He looks like he's been through it twice. Hair falling out, paunchy, skin raw, eyes sunken into his head. He runs marathons and binge drinks to cope. I asked him the other month what the best part about parenthood was, and he just stared at me and laughed bitterly. Regrets...

I think if you do it, there's benefit in having something to care about more than yourself.

These days, with everything going on (and going wrong) I can't imagine bringing a child into the world.

The idea people who don't have children are selfish is just silly and gets the contempt it deserves.

R107 as the costs of decent respite & medical care skyrockets and the cost of living crisis proliferates, many of us already have to spend years to care, or will have to spend years to care, for ageing and ailing grandparents and parents. That I think is also a turn-off to breeding and child-rearing for many people. 18 more years on top of decades, another dependent to care for on top of at least one or two...nah.

Of course most straight people don't plan it, they slip up with the birth control and end up as parents.

Passing on your DNA is the actual meaning of survival of the fittest. It’s not about being strong or any of the usual assumptions people make when they refer to it. It’s surviving, passing on your genes and hopefully taking care of your offspring long enough for them to survive and have their own.

"Passing on your DNA is the actual meaning of survival of the fittest."

Except it isn't. Plenty of species passed on their DNA and became extinct due to nature. Whenever resources become scarce, species will die off. The same is true for humans as we overpopulate the world...

^ Sure, Jan.

I am only curious because I would love to see what my offspring would look like. But that’s it. I don’t even have plants in my house. Not a nurturing bone in my body. And that’s okay 👌🏽.

[quote]I am only curious because I would love to see what my offspring would look like.

You can do that with the FaceApp, r113.

Example: My ai generated daughter...

R115 She’s lovely. Like Lisa Bonet combined with Lisa Loring and the result was photographed by a devotee of Margaret Keane.

R80

What did Michael Jackson like about thirtyseven year old's?

They're 7 years old.

[quote]Like Lisa Bonet

r116 That's hilarious because I've been told I look like her daughter Zoe Kravitz on multiple occasions.

I still don't see it, though.

R114/R115 to me she looks like Trent Alexander Arnold (in a good way)

R100, just a post to say I hope you hang in there and feel life getting better for you soon. You sound smart and wise, so there's that to be happy about. 🙋‍♀️

Thank you, r120. I'm a bit better. You're very kind and it is appreciated.

if I'd had the misfortune to be born straight, I'd have gotten snipped as soon as I could. I do not understand why it seems like every other gay man is having babies

In my observation, the best humans seem to choose not to breed. Which does not bode well for the quality of the species in future.

I look after my elderly parents, and I love them, but I do resent it to a degree. That alone tells me I would not be a good parent.

I'm an only child and have never had any desire as an adult to have children by any means. Parents divorced when I was a toddler, raised by mom and grandma, mom never remarried. Didn't see dad again until I went looking for him in Italy the summer I graduated high school.

For years I envied the relationship and lifestyle of a friend of mine and his partner. For some bizarre reason they decided to adopt in their late 40s. I no longer envy them. The son has bonded with one of them but not the other causing problems in their relationship. He also has behavior problems that make me dread visits from them and has resulted in a cooling off of our formerly close friendship. Kid is too destructive and I don't trust him around my dogs.

R124 yes, I hear that. It’s a good litmus test.

Currently I help to care for my grandmother, and probably will end up with care of my parents (due to not being rich or straight or a parent myself), and while I do my best and try to be diligent and sweet about it I hate it so much and wish someone else would take over and let me live my damn life on my terms. Some people are natural willing carers for dependents, alas I am not one such.

Dogs are better than people, R125.

I think it's a very childlike way of thinking. 'Of course we want kids!' Ask most people if they'd consider being childless and they stare at you with wide-eyed shock.

The very idea makes me stressed, tired and claustrophobic.

Organ banks

Cheap labor

Food Stamps

To close the circle of family trauma

To light Nana's cigarette.

I understand wanting a child but I do not understand bringing a child into this world now. It is selfish considering the shape the world is in.