My Fair Lady (1964) (Rex Harrison & Audrey Hepburn) Why Does Anyone Like This Movie?

I don't relate to any of the options in the poll.

Me neither

I always preferred Wendy Hiller.

I don't like it at all. Can't see the appeal.

My favorite movie musical

OP here. Sorry about the stupid poll options. I'm awful at polls. I don't know why. I usually love other polls on DL.

Thank you for posting, though. I dread starting a thread and seeing no posts. Like not being chosen for whiffleball at recess.

Lipstick Lesbian, I'm relieved you agree! I always like to know what you think about things!

[quote] I dread starting a thread and seeing no posts

Why? Not the end of the world.

[quote] Sorry about the stupid poll options. I'm awful at polls

Just file it under the 'Practice' category and move on.

No need to be self-conscious.

The movie does suck.

I've never even tried to get through it. I've always loved Julie on the OBC recording, but that's as far as my affection for MFL goes.

OP, my recommendation would be never to put up a poll for something like this if you weren't genuinely interested in other people's opinions that differed from your own. Just state your opinion and let people respond without a poll. No one likes "whimsical" polls that are meant just to reinforce the OP's own particular opinion.

It's generally understood now that the head of Warner Brothers really miscalculated by not letting Julie Andrews star in this, since she proved in the same year with "Mary Poppins" that she had box office charisma and was considered lovable by film audiences. Audrey Hepburn is lovely after the transformation, but as Pauline kael pointed out she's just completely unconvincing before then as a guttersnipe, and because Marnie Nixon's voice is so impersonal dubbed over her. And, as Kael pointed out, Harrison let almost all the surprise fall out of his performance since he had performed it too often on stage. but it's worth seeing because of the lavish period recreations, and the beautiful costumes (especially the famous black, white, and grey ones for the Ascot sequence), and because it's generally agreed MFL is one of a handful of the very greatest scores from the Golden Age of the Broadway musical

Love Audrey's gowns and the Ascot scenes. Rex was too way old to be paired with Audrey's though.

My favorite analysis of this movie was on Will and Grace.

Audrey Hepburn is the worst part of the movie. It requires far too much suspension of disbelief to see her as an impoverished uneducated London flower girl. She didn’t pull it off.

Love the play, love the musical... watch the movie in spite of its flaws.

Such as Audrey's accent. Her Cockney sounds passable to my American ear, but when she finally learns to talk loik a lady... she develops a faint Belgian accent!

The best thing about the entire movie is the set for Henry Higgins's London house. It is absolutely spectacular, and unlike the set for Yves Montand's office in "On a Clear Day You Can See Forever," which tried to outdo it, it's believable (since Higgins is clearly established as being from a wealthy family).

I still think it's amazing that Jack Warner asked both Cary Grant and James Cagney to play Higgins. They both turned him down, and both of them supposedly told him they wouldn't even watch it unless he retained Rex Harrison from the Broadway show in the role.

I like it but the one that irks me is when, at Ascot, Higgins "absentmindedly" puts his teacup on his hat. It probably killed on stage but on film it doesn't work.

Amazing performances and costumes and that score! I would have voted for MFL for Picture but Quinn for Zorba.

I don't like it.

Audrey's yowling is too much.....and Rex is annoying in a character that should be charming and enlightening.

And Cukor's casting of all of those street boy whores in the ballroom scene is ridiculous. They look completely out of place in those costumes.

Costumes are good......settings are okay.....very stagebound.

And that old gas bag that played her father couldn't even get his lips to match the soundtrack. Even Annette Funicello in Beach Blanket Bingo could do that. MFL was the worst lip synching until Lena Horne in The Wiz.

Wrong, r13. They wanted Cagney for Doolittle. Really, Cagney as Higgins???

[quote]I like it but the one that irks me is when, at Ascot, Higgins "absentmindedly" puts his teacup on his hat. It probably killed on stage but on film it doesn't work.

How come?

WB wanted Cagney for Doolittle and Grant for Higgins.

The best Higgins I've ever seen was Leslie Howard in the 1930s "Pygmalion". He was fortyish and quite handsome, and he was the only actor I've ever seen in the role who didn't ham it up and yell! He wasn't the huge character some actors try to make him, Howard's Higgins was just this bright, obnoxious, intelligent, subtly sexy man who had no filter, because he didn't see why he'd want one.

And as such, you can believe that a real human woman like Wendy Hiller's Eliza might be genuinely attracted to him!

Not so with Rex Harrison. Oh, NOT so! He's sixty or looks it, and he hams the hell out of it all.

I love MFL -- think it's one of the best musicals from Hollywood ever. Hepburn was a beautiful Eliza, and that mattered more than being a believable flower girl. She actually did do her own singing, and no one told her until much later that she was going to be dubbed. Harrison is indeed too old for the part and they had to write songs for him (in the original) that didn't require much of a voice. He doesn't have one.

Andrews would have made a more convincing flower girl but the transformation into a beautiful object of Freddy's desire -- no, she couldn't have pulled that off, she's just not a very attractive woman. A great actress and singer, yes. Beauty? No.

I saw the film on the big screen once. After it got restored and was shown at the Dorothy Chandler Pavilion in LA sometime in the 2010s. It was the only time I'd seen it other than when I was a little kid in the 80s and too young to enjoy it despite my parents cooing about it. I will say, as a kid, the one thing I was taken by was the beautiful Audrey and the costumes. As an adult, I found Audrey's performance stilted and thought it was much more Rex's film

[quote]Beauty? No.

Patrician beauty? Yes.

I can't wait till they make Mannequin the Musical

Oh--

[quote] Julie Andrews

Is Lebanese. It can't be stated enough.

[quote]My favorite analysis of this movie was on Will and Grace.

You mean when Will's gay card should have been revoked because he thought the costumes were done by Edith Head?

It's no "Lucy Mame."

I don't know how the film won an Oscar for cinematography. It was very stagey.

Rex’s Higgins is not a lovable character and why Audrey’s Eliza would dump Freddy and go back to him did not make sense. In the original “Pygmalion”, Shaw did not have Eliza going back to Higgins but married Freddy. But the “happy” ending was created for the 1938 film and was kept in the musical. Shaw’s original ending made more sense

R28 Shaw's original ending just had Higgins alone on stage (after Eliza's departure) laughing at the idea of her marrying Freddy, but many people assumed that she eventually returned to Higgins or he won her back somehow, which really irritated Shaw because he hated happy endings, so a few years later he wrote an afterword, detailing why/how Eliza married Freddy and not Higgins.

However, the 1930s film version, for which Shaw won the Best Screenplay Oscar, has Eliza return to Higgins in the end.

Gay (IRL) Freddy was hot.

Julie Andrew's was always matronly looking even when she was a very young woman. That bowl cut did her no favors.

Seeing Jeremy Brett was a little scary for me. I’ve idolized him as the best possible Sherlock Holmes for so long I thought I might have to be embarrassed to see him doing the feckless Freddy.

I should’ve known better.

You obviously don't know what a bowl cut is, r31.

[quote]Julie Andrew's was always matronly looking even when she was a very young woman. That bowl cut did her no favors.

Oh, dear.

[quote]I don't know how the film won an Oscar for cinematography. It was very stagey.

Do you even know what cinematography is?

I meant the movie didn't feel very cinematic. It felt more like watching a recorded play. The camera was pretty stationary.

What kind of cut do you call it R33. A wedge, maybe? Still unflattering.

It was the costuming OP, the costuming

Maybe Spielberg will give us a new version with his twink du jour.

It's a no-nonsense bob, r37.

Wait a minute. You know, this seems familiar to me. Say, did I ever sing on some Austrian hillside with a really butch haircut?

[quote] I like it but the one that irks me is when, at Ascot, Higgins "absentmindedly" puts his teacup on his hat. It probably killed on stage but on film it doesn't work.

It's not done absent-mindedly. What he's doing is signalling, "Oh, fuck this, I thought this would work, but it's already doomed" (he doesn't realize yet that the Eynsford-Hills will think Liza is affecting what they think is "the new small talk" and that they will take her comments as witty rather than as random).

It is visually beautiful and the singing is perfection. And as far as movie musicals go it’s pretty good. Sound of music and Mary Poppins are better because they really got Julie Andrews but I’m not sure there are other movie musicals that are as good. I like a Chorus Line, I think Chicago was fun to watch, Wizard of Oz great, can’t think of others worth it. So the list isn’t long. Definitely could be improved but I think it wins for the visuals and Julie’s voice.

Julie's voice isn't anywhere in "My Fair Lady," r43. Audrey Hepburn is dubbed over with Marni Nixon's voice.

R44 I have watched it a million times and never knew, thanks for telling me.

[quote]It was the costuming OP, the costuming.

Which, along with the hair and makeup, makes some of the women look very 1960s even though the movie is set in Edwardian London. It's rather like the original "Star Trek" TV series in that regard. The 23rd century apparently will see the return of mini-dresses, go-go boots and beehive hairdos.

I was wearing this in 2001, r46.

Yeoman Rand had a fabulous basket weave beehive.

I agree with you, OP. "Pygmalion," with Wendy Hiller and Leslie Howard, is much better.

Never like Rex Harrison and his puffy eyes.

My Big Fragrant Pussy

What I don't like about the 1930s film version was that they moved the time period to the then present instead of keeping it in the pre-WWI 1910s.

Don't forget me!

MFL's strong suit is the production values; the beautiful sets, costumes and photography -- which are larger than life but don't overwhelm the action like Hello Dolly's do. The look of the film is very stylized and stagey, but yet it doesn't feel stage bound.

Period films always have a good deal of contemporary style in the costumes and especially the hair and make-up of the female leads, since they wanted the original audience to see the stars as currently attractive. What I like about MFL is how heavily and knowingly the production design leans into this -- it's not an Edwardian piece that has 60's style around the edges by unwitting osmosis - it is very much a High 60's take on the Edwardian era; which again contributes to the film's stagey storybook-confection appeal.

Kelly was an idiot to make Dolly so humongous. The slight story couldn't take it.

This movie was already dated by the 1980s.

My Fair Clit

That's just stupid, r56.

R57 but it’s hilarious

Yep, r58, right up there with

[quote]My Big Fragrant Pussy

Incidentally, I remember several years back we had a thread about turning Oscar-winning movies into porn titles, and someone suggested MY FAIR LADYBOY. 😂🤣

Audrey sure looked the part of the starving street urchin. She had the physicality for the role. I love the part where they force her to take a bath and she reacts as if it’s a vat of acid. About her accent sounding slightly Belgian after her transformation, didn’t the accent expert guy at the ball deduce that she was a foreign princess? Makes sense. Audrey sounded like someone who had grown up internationally and didn’t have any particular accent.

It's a hit=and-miss movie for me. I love Audrey but the Marni Nixon vocals take me out of the movie. Rex Harrison is fantastic in his arrogance and I'm glad his iconic performance was captured on film. He's not supposed to be a lovable character and there isn't supposed to be more than a hint of romance between the two of them. Not even a hint really, just an "I grew accustomed to her face" thing so those who say he's too old for her, yes well, he's not her beau.

But the movie doesn't really find a dramatic climax and that's my problem with it. The climax should probably be the ball when she transforms spectacularly into a divine presence that seduces everyone. But the movie doesn't stay on her enough during the ball and the whole thing plays flatter than it should, and then we go back to Higgins' house and so on. It could have been so much better but it's still pretty damn good.

[quote]About her accent sounding slightly Belgian after her transformation, didn’t the accent expert guy at the ball deduce that she was a foreign princess?

He thought she was a foreign princess because her English was flawless, not because she sounded foreign. He figured she must have been taught by the very best,

My Fair Clit caused me to spit the food out of my mouth and piss my pants.

She doesn't have a Belgian accent after the ball. WTF.

[quote]My Fair Clit caused me to spit the food out of my mouth and piss my pants.

Talk about easily entertained, You should hire yourself out to comedy clubs.

R66 I like to laugh and find humor in stupidity you like to bitch and sit around with RBF as you turn to dust

the remake with these two will be a gazillion times better!!!!!!!

^ Sorry I just don't see Lizzo as Prof Higgins

Someone is talking to herself:

My Fair Lady (1964) (Rex Harrison & Audrey Hepburn) Why Does Anyone Like This Movie? My Big Fragrant Pussy

My Fair Lady (1964) (Rex Harrison & Audrey Hepburn) Why Does Anyone Like This Movie? My Fair Clit

My Fair Lady (1964) (Rex Harrison & Audrey Hepburn) Why Does Anyone Like This Movie? R57 but it’s hilarious

My Fair Lady (1964) (Rex Harrison & Audrey Hepburn) Why Does Anyone Like This Movie? My Fair Clit caused me to spit the food out of my mouth and piss my pants.

My Fair Lady (1964) (Rex Harrison & Audrey Hepburn) Why Does Anyone Like This Movie? R66 I like to laugh and find humor in stupidity you like to bitch and sit around with RBF as you turn to dust

I haven't watched it in years but I think it's ok. I like the song On the Street Where You Live.

I actually don't like Julie doing Cockney and she was bad at it in Star as well. It's funny because in real life she is meant to be not as lady-like as her image.

Julie's Roller Skate Rag...

One of my favorite films. A beauty. Magnificent production design which the actors fill with their presence. I think the Hiller Howard film is a bore They're just marking.

The climax of Eliza's transformation is when she appears at the top of the stairs in the ball gown. And I don't know if it was Moss Hart or George Cukor but when Higgin leaves to go to the ball and Eliza stands there not moving and Higgins goes back to take her arm is brilliant. A surprising and very moving end to the first half. Andre Previn 's conducting of that glorious score helps enormously. And the tea party scene in MFL is hilarious where in the original film it goes for nothing. Though I could as well do without Rex putting the teacup on his hat which I'm sure on stage got a huge roar.

Has anyone yet mentioned the crappy titles sequence with all those overripe shots of flowers? So unimaginative.

if MGM had done it (They underbid Jack Warner for the rights) Vincente Minnelli would have directed it (Arthur Freed always said HE would have cast Julie)...when MGM lost out, they hired Lerner & Lowe for GIGI instead which is sprightly in a way MY FAIR LADY is not.

He was handsome, and I loved him in The Ghost and Mrs. Muir.

I appreciate it more for its visual attributes, than anything else. Beaton's famous Ascot scene treatment is effective, but overrated.

[quote]Has anyone yet mentioned the crappy titles sequence with all those overripe shots of flowers? So unimaginative.

Are we still talking about "My Fair Lady" or "On a Clear Day You Can See Forever"?

"Audrey sounded like someone who had grown up internationally and didn’t have any particular accent."

Except, R61, that the whole fucking story was about Higgins teaching her to speak like an upper-class Englishwoman!

Did anyone else dislike Audrey's white dress at the last act ball?

Of course the single worst thing about the look was the fucking bouffant, but the dress itself didn't seem to belong in the same universe as the rest of the film's costumes, and wasn't particularly flattering to Hepburn. It really did make her look like a flat-chested, lollipop-headed stick, and she was supposed to be living in an era when curves were in fashion.

r81, Check your fashion history, doll.

By 1914, hour glass curves were on their way out and women's bodies were already being transformed into the tubes that became ubiquitous by 1920.

R76 Something is not quite right about your history because Gigi was made in 1957-58 and MFL was released in 1964. Maybe the bidding for the rights was in the 50s but they couldn’t make the film until the show had finished its run?

Anyhow, Vincente Minnelli was in the running to direct this Jack Warner production we’re talking about - he was first choice. But from what I’ve read, his wife at the time was negotiating for him and wanted a certain amount of money and it dragged on so long Warner finally hired George Cukor. Who was willing to work for less than Minnelli was asking.

When he was later asked what he would have done differently had he directed it he said something like “It would have had more color, for one thing.” I really like this comment because Cukor was not a lover of using a lot of color and would even tell cinematographers not to add color gels, saying “The sets are well painted, we don’t need more color.”

I think this movie is not very visually interesting or very colorful, particularly for a musical. There’s a lot of gray, a lot of brown, taupe, and avocado green. And just a lot of neutral color in general. So that when the black and white Ascot sequence happens, it’s not that big a change.

The one thing the MFL film doesn't need is more color. The Edwardian world was a place of soft pastels and neutrals.

Where would this strong color be employed? Higgins' flat? Covent Garden? The Embassy Ball? The Doolittle pubs? Mrs. Higgins' house is beautifully rendered in soft pastels and neutrals, as are the streets of Mayfair.

I kept waiting for her to fly off using her umbrella. She didn’t.

Sucked!!!

Gin was mother's milk to her!

My Fair Taint

r83: I was mistaken iin believing that the film rights toi MY FAIR LADY were sold after the show opened on Broadway in 1956. Broadway cast albums were huge business when “My Fair Lady” opened, so CBS, through its Columbia Records division, financed the play just so they could put out the cast album. Later, when Warner Bros. Pictures co-founder Jack Warner wanted the movie rights, he paid a then record $5.5 million in 1962 plus 47 ¼% of the gross over $20 million. And all rights to the movie went back to CBS after a mere 7 years.

The budget for the film was the highest in Hollywood history - $17 million.

By that reasoning, it appears that MGM was unable to secure the rigthts after the Broadway musical opened in 1956 and made GIGI as an 'answer' to it (and just maybe an unofficial advertisement to show CBS what MGM could do with a similar story and composer and lyricist)

R84 I don’t think Minnelli said strong color. he said more color. But you’d have to argue with him, not me. I always found the film dull-looking. Minnelli was adept at using color but not to the point of garishness (Gigi is a great example of it). I haven’t seen My Fair Lady for a while but I remember Get me To The Church On Time being mostly blacks and browns, and On The Street Where You Live being mostly grays and neutral colors. Cukor always used the “color consultant” George Hoyningen-Huene on his films probably because he had no particular eye for color or design, unlike Minnelli who had done sets, costumes, window dressing and other visual jobs before becoming a director.

Yeah, always leave it to a window dresser, r89.

It's overly wrong and Stanley Holloway makes me nervous for some reason, but it was the first movie musical I fell in love with a kid.

Maybe Julie Andrews would have been better, but would she have looked as good as Audrey in that black and white dress?

It IS very stagey. In that the camera keeps its distance, there are many shots of all the characters standing around together, comparatively few closeups, and hardly any close closeups. AND the actors are projecting their voices like stage actors throughout, which is offputting.

The 1939 version has none of these flaws, the actors talk in a normal everyday human tone and the camera gets in close, which makes it feel far more intimate and realistic. The 1939 version feels like a bunch of real people going through their lives, while the 1964 version feels like star actors being faaabulous! Which isn't necessarily bad, I'm up for a Star Performance on occasion, but damn that movie is stagey.

I agree that the ball dress is underwhelming. The Ascot dress is truly spectacular and makes Audrey look pretty curvaceous (I always wondered if she was padded up but I hear she wasn't). The ball dress should have surpassed the Ascot dress but didn't, it made her look skinny and flat.

I've always liked the movie, even if I thought Audrey Hepburn was miscast. Marni Nixon had a wonderful singing voice, but it's wrong for Audrey's husky rasp of a speaking voice.

Besides, the actual story is the love story between Higgins and Pickering, two aging "confirmed bachelors" who meet cute and decide to live together immediately.

I thought the flowers and music during the credits were beautiful. Scorsese fancied up the idea for his "Age of Innocence."

On a...

Unfortunately the title sequence which is one of my favorites(the film looks fabulous in the 50th anniversary bluray and the newer and better 4k) was said by Robert Harris the film's restorer, he also restored Lawrence and Spartacus, that the sequence is 5th generation rather than from the original negative. I think that's why it looks a bit too grainy. The original must have been a knock out. The designer of it also went on to do another of my favorites Days of Heaven.

Wayne Fitzgerald designed the title sequence for "My Fair Lady," but he isn't credited with doing "Days of Heaven." (He did design the title sequence for "Heaven Can Wait," which was released the same year as "Days of Heaven"). Dan Perri designed the title sequence for "Days of Heaven."

Oops sorry. Anyway they are both among the best.

oh what a tangled web we weave when we first practice to drink piss

I lost my virginity to the My Fair Lady soundtrack.

My Fair Clit

[quote] It IS very stagey. In that the camera keeps its distance, there are many shots of all the characters standing around together, comparatively few closeups, and hardly any close closeups. AND the actors are projecting their voices like stage actors throughout, which is offputting.

I think it was deliberately stagey and I'm glad it was. Everything was shot in the studio, with no exteriors, which kept it purposely close to the stage play. I wish they did this more often with musicals when they are adapted for the screen. They frequently ruin them by opening them up and letting the visuals overwhelm the story, like in Into the Woods.

There are no close-ups because they filmed it with the intention to have almost everyone see it in a theater on a giant screen in Super Panavision 70mm. In those days they didn't frame theatrical films for the small television screen which they started doing in the 70's. That's why old widescreen films use relatively few close-ups and are more epic looking.

Just for the record, Zoltan Kaparthy, the linguist at the ball, thought she was born a Hungarian princess.

"Her English is too good" he said "which clearly indicates that she foreign. Whereas others are instructed in their native language, English people aren(t).

And although she may have studied with an expert dialectician and grammarian,

I can tell that she was born Hungarian.

Not only Hungarian but of royal blood. She is a princess"

Rex Harrison prevented Julie Andrews from playing the part of Eliza Dolittle- he was JEALOUS of her and her success and felt if she'd been allowed to play her she would have received ALL of the attention. He was probably right but FUCK HIM anyway and I agree with you OP and everyone else who said that Audrey Hepburn was AWFUL in this movie.

Bikel did a good job as Zoltan, funny without too much ham.

I find Audrey Hepburn fantastically twee. Twee is whimsy without wit. It's mimsy-mumsy sweetness without any kind of bite. And that's not for me. She can't sing and she can't really act, I'm afraid. I'm sure she was a delightful woman -- and perhaps if I had known her I would have enjoyed her acting more, but I don't and I didn't, so that's all there is to it, really.

Love that reminder, r108!

Do you or does anyone remember the context of that quote?

I much prefer the source material (Pygmalion) to the Lerner & Loewe version.

The only part of the movie that I like is the Ascot scenes. The art direction there is excellent. The casting overall is very disappointing.

I enjoy Dame Julie's singing on the original cast album, but am not sure that even she could make a convincing Cockney flower peddler.

R109, I think Thompson said that while she was writing a screenplay for a new "My Fair Lady", a project that doesn't seem to have made it out of Development Hell.

Yeah, it was around 2010 when Emma Thompson was going around talking of remaking MY FAIR LADY. She was going to write the screenplay, which was going to be a mix of the original 1913 play, 1938 film adaptation, and 1964 movie musical.

My Huge Assholr

[quote]Rex Harrison prevented Julie Andrews from playing the part of Eliza Dolittle

Eliza DOOLITTLE

Dr. DOLITTLE (as in "do little.")

[quote] Rex Harrison prevented Julie Andrews from playing the part of Eliza Dolittle- he was JEALOUS of her and her success and felt if she'd been allowed to play her she would have received ALL of the attention.

That's absurd. Julie Andrews was a nobody when the wheels were set in motion to make the movie and Rex was an established film star (Cleopatra, anyone?) With 5M invested in the rights, Jack Warner HAD to get a name for the female lead and Audrey was at the top of her game.

The irony is that Audrey Hepburn never once, even at her height, made Quigley's annual list of Top 10 Bankable Film Stars, which was "long regarded as one of the most reliable barometers of a movie star's box-office power," whereas Julie made the list several times a few years later, even topping it twice: 1965 (#4), 1966 (#1), 1967 (#1), 1968 (#3).

Furthermore, Julie was the last woman to reach #1 for over thirty years, until Julia Roberts topped the list in 1999.

Ya want stagy?

Everything about it is overdone and overlit. It looks like it was filmed in a department store.

Poor Rosie...

Andrews was twee too until she finally flashed her tits.

Andrews's reign at the top of the box office was extremely brief. She had massive hits with "The Sound of Music" and "Mary Poppins", and then... didn't follow them with more massive hits. And just as she was having some box-office disappointments the late sixties hit and the zeitgeist was all about hippies, revolutionaries, war, and race riots, and she seemed suddenly out of step with the times. And Hollywood didn't have much of an idea what to do with her, then as now the major female roles in most mainstream films were for pretty, sexy, compliant young women, and that just wasn't her.

Well, doing the "My Fair Lady" film would have given her more time at the top, but I don't think it would have had a huge effect on her career as a whole. For all her talent, she just wasn't a good fit for the Hollywood of the sixties and seventies.

This movie feels so long. Even the opening credits seem to go on forever.

Since My Fair Lady and Mary Poppins were both released in 1964 I don’t see how doing MFL would have given Julie more time at the top. Also I’m not sure if she had done MFL she could have done MP as well.

I remember going o see Mary Poppins (when I was 6 or 7) and standing in line under a massive poster for MFL which was playing in another theater, next door. These were the two highest grossing films of 1964.

R121 Torn Curtain was not well reviewed by critics but it was actually a hit. Thoroughly Modern Millie was a bigger hit. The Tamarind Seed was also a box office hit.

R121 And Hawaii was the highest-grossing film of 1966.

I love Audrey in Lady. I think she's charming as hell and very very beautiful. She is brilliant in her tryout at ascot and is wonderful in her dramatic scenes in the second half. I doubt Harrison cared who played Eliza over which he had no say. He wasn't even sure he'd get the role as he was third choice. Eliza could have been Connie Stevens Warner Brothers contract player for all he cared. How many decades has Audrey been dead and yet she is still known by young people. Alone with Monroe as the only person known by young people from old Hollywood.

By the way Shaw wrote the role of Eliza for a 49 year old actress. So much for Higgins looking 60. And the original actor as Higgins in its first production through his own acting made it clear at the end he was in love Eliza and not done with her. Shaw was furious. the actor said Ha! I've made your play a hit!

All this comment about her ball gown and no one mentions how her hair is done up for the ball? That's a serious "do" I sense the work of a gay artisan.

My favorite scene from the film is the ball scene, starting from Audrey Hepburn's descent of the staircase at home, never looking at her feet, to her elegant dancing. Although I'm sure that Julie Andrews would have been superior in many other parts of the film and would have had the advantage of mouthing the words during filming to her own singing, Audrey Hepburn had much more training as a dancer, and it shows beautifully in this scene, where she is elegant, poised and regal.

SHITTY POLL

Not to harp on this hairdo, but the more I look at it the more I'm thinking it was inspired by a Roman centurian head piece

[quote]Andrews's reign at the top of the box office was extremely brief. She had massive hits with "The Sound of Music" and "Mary Poppins", and then... didn't follow them with more massive hits.

As others have stated, Julie had more than those two hits.

1964: MARY POPPINS (#1 of '64) and THE AMERICANIZATION OF EMILY (modest hit)

1965: THE SOUND OF MUSIC (#1 of '65 and highest-grossing film of that era, surpassing GONE WITH THE WIND)

1966: TORN CURTAIN (#17 of '66) and HAWAII (#1 of '66)

1967: THOROUGHLY MODERN MILLIE (#10 of '67)

STAR! in 1968 was a major flop, thus ending her winning streak, but what an amazing run.

I was a boy during the 60s and Andrews was a goddess. Even though Star! was a flop I think it was Darling Lili that really finished off her career. I wish she had done Chitty, Oliver or Bedknobs all of which she was offered. I got through Lili once but never again. And if they could get 1776 made why not the far preferable She Loves Me with Van Dyke which would have given her some clout again and then maybe 40 Carats.

Edwards really fucked up her career. Why as a lesbian was she so obsessed with him?

And she could not have done all three due to timing Poppins, Lady and Music. One had to go.

But I wonder....had Jack Warner just gone with Julie as Eliza as soon as he secured the film rights, MFL could have been made earlier and allowed her to also do Mary Poppins?

Julie would have been awful casting as Nancy in Oliver, too old and too sweet. Even Shani Wallis was no Georgia Brown.

But yes, shame that She Loves Me was never made into a film with Julie! She would have been perfect as Amalia and the story would have translated beautifully to a well made Hollywood film (see The Shop Around the Corner).

The clip above proves all you naysayers grotesquely wrong. Audrey was stunningly flawless in that scene. No one on earth could have come close. And the dress is perfection. I know the show very well, have seen and done it many times professionally and every attempt painfully pales to her performance.

[quote]Love the play, love the musical... watch the movie in spite of its flaws. Such as Audrey's accent. Her Cockney sounds passable to my American ear, but when she finally learns to talk loik a lady... she develops a faint Belgian accent!

It's not Belgian, it's Dutch, but you have a point.

[quote]I still think it's amazing that Jack Warner asked both Cary Grant and James Cagney to play Higgins.

Not quite correct. he wanted Grant for Higgins, which is indeed amazing (and ridiculous), but he wanted Cagney for Doolittle, which might have been really good casting.

"All this comment about her ball gown and no one mentions how her hair is done up for the ball?"

I bitched about it at R81. So there!

She had had to have her hair grown real long to make it up like that.

^yeah I'm sure that made more sense than a wig/hair piece!

":I wish she had done Chitty, Oliver or Bedknobs all of which she was offered"

Andrews would have been terrific in "Chitty" or "Bedknobs", but she would have been all wrong for "Oliver". Too grown-up, too middle-class, too knowing, to play that foolish girl Nancy! Of course "Bedknobs and Broomsticks" would have been a challenge for her, because it would have seemed so much like "Mary Poppins 2", but that was a challenge it might have been a good idea to take on.

[quote] But I wonder....had Jack Warner just gone with Julie as Eliza as soon as he secured the film rights, MFL could have been made earlier and allowed her to also do Mary Poppins?

That's like saying, would James Dean have played Vito Corleone if he had slowed down?

I was a tyke when it came out but I remember the reviews loved the visuals, hated the dubbed singing. Since Disney princess movies back then were few and far between, this movie was catnip for preteens. Every crappy beauty pageant had a couple of Eliza Dolittles in their talent competitions for the next five years.

R135 She was born and lived in Belgium until she was around five. Where she probably learned to speak Flemish, the Belgian variation of Dutch.

It's long and draggy. Audrey is dreadful. She was lovely and her own singing voice was charming in Funny Face but she's miscast here. Peter O'Toole or Cary Grant would have been better as HH. Rex is a bore. Gladys Cooper gives the best performance.

Rex Harrison was a horrible racist

R141, may I ask how you know so much about the crappy beauty pageants of that day?

Audrey is magnificent in MFL and should have won the Oscar that was ridiculously given to Andrews simply out of sympathy.

I had a sister with those aspirations and got dragged along.

One pageant had two Elizas with flower carts doing "Wouldn't it be loverly."

Bitches are stilling doing "Wouldn't it be loverly" at pageants. Still forcing their brothers to come along and set up their easels, music stands and fucking flower carts. " "Sallie Elaine Norman is the daughter of Tim and Valerie Norman. Her talent is vocal presentation and her selection is “Wouldn’t It Be Loverly” from “My Fair Lady” by Alan Jay Lerner and Frederick Loewe"

I recommend performing something more recent...not always of course.

We need a Separate thread of painful pageant performances.

Cary Grant spoke in a Cockney accent so his playing Higgins makes no sense. He would have sounded like Eliza.

What about George Sanders who had a snooty Brit accent?

Well he sure didn't pick it up from his wives, r153.

r96, Saul Bass and his wife did that title sequence for "Age of Innocence," and it's one of the best they ever did.

The novel's and film's story involves the late Victorian "language of flowers" (Newland sends lilies of the valley to May Welland ever day while they are engaged to tell them how much he values her innocence, but then on a whim sends Ellen a big bunch of yellow roses, which technically just means friendship but comes to signify splendour and excess after he starts to send them every day). Also, the flowers are shown to bloom quickly in time-lapse photography signifying how little time Newland has (and how all this happened long ago in his past anyway), and they are filmed behind screens of white period handwriting (to show how in their world words are used to hide feelings). Finally, the last shot of flowers is of stage daisies, one of which is then picked by Marguerite at the Old Met to start the "Flower Duet" from "Faust"--which is of course where the action of original novel begins.

It's also set against that gorgeous dark lush music from the overture to Gounod's "Faust" that suggests both eroticism and a deal with the devil.

Asshole face you have the cutest little asshole face

Henry! What a disagreeable surprise!

Henry! What a disgusting surprise! You shit the bed again!

My Fair Lady is an ELEGANT film. An ELEGANT film.

R139, if Ann-Margret could do a Cockney accent, how do you think she would have been as Nancy in Oliver!?

I'm now imagining A-M singing As Long As He Needs Me to the camera on a walking sidewalk with a wind machine ruffling her skirts. And hair.

R17, don’t you find it just a bit gimmicky? It is one of the few missteps in the film for me. Like drawing too fine a line on his eccentricity.

As Long As He Rims Me

I’ve always felt Connie Stevens was robbed of the role of Eliza.

There’s no heights she couldn’t have reached.

She could have hulaed all night!

Show us your pussy!

Connie could have really delivered a one two punch had Warners also given her the role of Honey in “Who’s Afraid of Virginia Woolf” (as she wanted) as a follow up to “My Fair Lady.”

It’s tragic thinking what might have been.

I’m with you OP. I don’t get it.

"[R139], if Ann-Margret could do a Cockney accent, how do you think she would have been as Nancy in Oliver!?"

Big IF, honey! But if she could do accents, and I've never seen her try, I think she'd have made a small part into a showstopper!

But I seriously doubt she could have done a Cockney accent, not at that age. They didn't have dialogue coaches then, they just let the actors go Dick Van Dyke,

Bitch thought she didn't need me.

[quote]Don’t you find it just a bit gimmicky? It is one of the few missteps in the film for me. Like drawing too fine a line on his eccentricity.

I've never fully understood that "tea cup on the hat" bit, in either the stage version of MFL or the movie, but I guess we're supposed to think Higgins does that in an attempt to draw attention away from Eliza as she begins to make a spectacle of herself at Ascot?

Is it still being used in revivals?

Another DL meme is born. he teacup on the hat. Teacupgate. I’m glad I don’t remember the gesture.

I always liked Rex Harrison. I grew up listening to the record of the show, I actually wore down the grooves. My parents took me to see it in summer stock (with Edward Mulhare, I think) because of how much I played that record. Pretty sure that was the same year the movie came out.

But anyway I think Rex was brilliant. He was amazing in the movie version of Major Barbara, with Wendy Hiller.

By the way, Rex won 2 competitive Tonys, for Anne Of The Thousand Days (in 1949 beating out Lee J. Cobb in Death Of A Salesman), and MFL in 1957 - plus a special Tony Award. He won a Tony and an Oscar for playing Higgins yet people here don’t think he was right for it, or good in it?? His performance was one of the main reasons the play and the film were both such massive hits.

Eventually, Ann-Margret did passable English accents in "Joseph Andrews" and "Return of the Soldier."

[quote]Eventually, Ann-Margret did passable English accents in "Joseph Andrews" and "Return of the Soldier."

And also in "Viva Las Vegas!"

Poor Audrey at R170 doesn't even sing as well as Natalie Wood attempting to do her own singing in "West Side Story."

If Lucy could do her own singing in Mame there is no reason why Natalie and Audrey had to be dubbed.

My talent's wearing a hat.

[quote]If Lucy could do her own singing in Mame

The fact that her actual voice was used for the singing is not the same as saying that she could do it :-)

OP / R6, come back! Your thread is a success.

I just saw R177 - that was atrocious (Natalie's singing). Jesus!

It was really delusional on Natalie's part that she thought she could sing most or all of the score of WEST SIDE STORY, but it was really wrong of the film's musical director et al. to feed into her delusion and lie to her by telling her she was doing a good job and that her tracks would be used.

The exact same thing happened with Audrey. She trained and studied and everyone was very encouraging. And then wham. It was pretty mean.

Yes, R184, but I think the difference was that Audrey was a little more realistic about her abilities (or lack of same) than Natalie was.

It's such a beautiful story. Towards the end, when Eliza goes to the hearth to retrieve the ring Higgins has thrown there gets to me every time.

R186 I've always hated that we never got to see the scene of Higgins buying that ring for her in Brighton (?).

When she mentions it during that fight, it just comes out of nowhere.

By the way the ball gown was not designed by Beaton. Both he and Audrey say it was found in a shop. What shop carried such expensive antique ball gowns I have no idea.

[quote]If Lucy could do her own singing in Mame there is no reason why Natalie and Audrey had to be dubbed.

Actually, Lucy's tone-deaf croaking in "Mame" is a strong argument for all non-singers starring in film musicals to be dubbed.

[quote]What shop carried such expensive antique ball gowns I have no idea.

Ross

That Edwardian ball gown was unlikely to have been worn more than once or twice. If it was properly preserved and stored there's no reason it wouldn't have been in pristine condition 50 years later and been sold to a vintage clothing source in the intervening years.

[quote]r184 The exact same thing happened with Audrey. She trained and studied and everyone was very encouraging.

But that’s because they were insistent MOVIE STARS. No one hired them thinking they were SINGERS. If stars demand they be allowed to record the score and try to improve themselves… okay. There might be snippets in there that could finally use. But no one was sitting around thinking, “You know who could really tear the strips off a Bernstein opera? Natalie Wood!!”

Does anyone else find it disconcerting that Natalie Wood is practically in blackface @ r177?

I'm sure no one found it disconcerting in 1961, R193. But today everyone makes it their business to be shocked by the insensitivity of movies made more than 60 years ago. We are so morally superior these days.

I don't think Deborah Kerr was ever under the illusion that her singing voice would be used in The King and I and fully cooperated with Marni Nixon to create a seamless transition between speaking and singing. Natalie and Audrey should have paid more attention to the success that was created in that instance.

They needed to be told at the beginning so they could work with Nixon to make a better less obvious transition. Somebody needed to tell them they simply did not have the natural talent for such demanding scores no matter how much they trained. There are a lot of old movies where the stars were dubbed and they had the sense to know I can't do this. I wonder why they were so frightened in the case of Wood and Hepburn.

Marni Nixon didn't sound at all like Audrey, that's why the voice replacement is so jarring. Compare for example the seamless dubbing done for Rita Hayworth in Gilda by Anita Ellis or Lisa Kirk for Rosalind Russell in Gypsy.

I seem to remember Marni Nixon dubbed Audrey Hepburn after the film was shot and edited, that's why Audrey would not have been able to adjust her acting to Marni's voice. I'm not sure about WSS.

What seems really weird to me is that anyone would have ever hired Marni Nixon to be the singing voices of Wood and Hepburn. Unlike with Kerr, her voice did not remotely match either actress, and she didn't really have a great voice for Maria or Eliza under any circumstances. Were there really no other singer/voice covers in Hollywood who would have been better matches? Marni just seemed like a lazy choice.

Or maybe she had a great agent.

Marni Nixon also dubbed Deborah Kerr in AN AFFAIR TO REMEMBER.

Incidentally, is there any truth to the story that the singer originally hired to dub Kerr in THE KING AND I died in a car accident so Nixon replaced her at the last minute?

It was mentioned in Nixon's obituary several years back, but I was never able to find any more information beyond that. Not even the singer's name.

I remember hearing that when Marni NIxon appeared with Sally Ann Howes in the Broadway musical THE DEAD (horrible title but based on the James Joyce story of the same name), they played elder spinster sisters but Sally Ann insisted they stop calling them both in for a dual interview.

I meant dual interview for PR purposes, not an audition.

[quote]I remember hearing that when Marni NIxon appeared with Sally Ann Howes in the Broadway musical THE DEAD (horrible title but based on the James Joyce story of the same name), they played elder spinster sisters but Sally Ann insisted they stop calling them both in for a dual interview.

I can personally attest that this is true. Presumably, Sally Ann thought of herself as a higher class star than Marni, which is certainly debatable.

I saw an interview with Marni where she says she and Audrey worked closely together on the dubbing. Maybe this is revisionist history to make herself look better.

[quote]Incidentally, is there any truth to the story that the singer originally hired to dub Kerr in THE KING AND I died in a car accident so Nixon replaced her at the last minute?

I believe it was also mentioned in Nixon's memoir, which is probably where they got the info from the obituary, so no reason to believe it's not true. It would be interesting to learn the name of the singer who died in the accident, but on the other hand, it's likely not a name we would recognize.

[quote]I seem to remember Marni Nixon dubbed Audrey Hepburn after the film was shot and edited, that's why Audrey would not have been able to adjust her acting to Marni's voice. I'm not sure about WSS.

No, it was for WSS that Marni looped the entire vocal performance of Maria after the film was shot. Natalie had filmed the musical numbers lip-synching to her own tracks. For MFL, I believe what happened was that both Marni and Audrey pre-recorded all or most of the songs, and I think Audrey sometimes filmed to her own tracks and sometime to Marni's, but I'm not sure.

[quote]I saw an interview with Marni where she says she and Audrey worked closely together on the dubbing. Maybe this is revisionist history to make herself look better.

I think you're misremembering.. Marni said that about Deborah Kerr on many occasions, but I don't think she ever said it about Audrey.

This YouTube discussion supports the idea that Audrey didn't know she was going to be dubbed until later. Look from 100.

We've gotten off track from the original discussion, but it's worth taking a moment to note that the reason Marni Nixon was used for all of these projects is that the songs themselves were difficult (from eras where people who wrote musicals expected stars who had some vocal chops) and she had a good even vocal instrument and very clean diction without the exaggerated vibrato and huge projection style of the majority of opera singers. There's a reason why pop albums of opera singers rarely sell well and why the classical albums of pop stars are rarely critical successes. Each genre, whether pop, rock, jazz, country, musical theater, or opera, places different demands upon voices, and upon listeners' expectations, and it's the rare person who can bridge styles successfully and convincingly. So Marni Nixon was a known quantity who could deliver musical theater songs without sounding like an opera diva, and yet, in her own career, she could sing operatically when she was in an opera setting. Millions of Americans grew up singing "Getting to know you", "I feel pretty", and "the rain in Spain" or "I could have danced all night" right along with Marni Nixon's voice and felt that that voice defined music theater just fine to them, while really having no idea who Marni Nixon was - any idea of what she looked like, what the rest of her career was all about, or even recognizing her name.

R190 I just spit my water out

[quote]r196 They needed to be told at the beginning so they could work with Nixon to make a better less obvious transition. Somebody needed to tell them they simply did not have the natural talent for such demanding scores no matter how much they trained.

No one levels with stars of that magnitude until they have to. The contracts were probably deliberately left vague. Hepburn and Wood heard their own playback recordings: the fact that they couldn’t hear for themselves how insufficient their “singing” was tells you just how out of touch they were.

FUN FACT: Marni Nixon's son, Andrew Gold, wrote the song "Thank You for Being a Friend," which became the theme for The Golden Girls.

Sadly, he predeceased his mother by five years.

(Don't mind the thumbnail. He looks better in the actual video.)

I just rewatched the Secret Voices of Hollywood documentary. Marni says she used to get a ride from Audrey to the studio every morning to the set of MFL. They would chat and Marni says she observed how Audrey spoke which helped with the dubbing. The documentary also says the producers knew from the beginning that Audrey would be dubbed.

I enjoyed Marni's memoir.

oh dear Marni's book was dubbed.

R208 Thank you for that YouTube link. I knew everything they said but it's wonderful to watch it all put together with the great Charles Busch in the audience.

[quote]with the great Charles Busch in the audience.

That's Angela Arden.

That doc at r208 is just brilliant, so much fun! I'd seen it before but thoroughly enjoyed watching it again. Thanks for the link.

[quote]Millions of Americans grew up singing "Getting to know you", "I feel pretty", and "the rain in Spain" or "I could have danced all night" right along with Marni Nixon's voice and felt that that voice defined music theater just fine to them, while really having no idea who Marni Nixon was - any idea of what she looked like

Marni Nixon bore a slight resemblance to Julie Andrews, with whom Nixon appeared on screen in "The Sound of Music" as one of the singing nuns.

Marni should have done The Christine Jorgensen Story.

Christine

In that photo at r220, she looks like Sandy Duncan.

I never thought I’d shave my taint

Still not dealing with your Tourette's, r224?

It's no "My Fair Brady."

R209, that's a very cogent analysis. Thank you.

"What seems really weird to me is that anyone would have ever hired Marni Nixon to be the singing voices of Wood and Hepburn"

My assumption is that she was under studio contract, and since she was the most suitable singer they had under contract rather than the best possible singer for these roles, she got the jobs under discussion. Which is a pity, she may have had good diction and pitched her voice to a semi-operatic level rather than operatic, but she just wasn't an interesting singer. She sang all the songs clearly, sweetly, and correctly, but she never made anything *soar*, never infused anything with joy, sorrow, or humor.

As for "MFL", for years I've thought that there was one bit where Audrey's own voice was used in a song, the beginning of "Just You Wait 'Enry 'Iggins", where the viciously funny lyrics are half-shouted rather than sung sweetly. I always assumed that this was because that bit wasn't technically difficult to sing, and Hepburn was rather better than Nixon at working enough anger and humor into the song.

But it's so jarring when it suddenly switches to Marni's voice, because they're so different.

AUDREY: What a fool I was, what a dominated fool to think you were the earth and sky

MARNI: ♪ What a fool I was, what an addlepated fool, what a mutton-headed dolt was I ♫

[quote]She sang all the songs clearly, sweetly, and correctly, but she never made anything *soar*, never infused anything with joy, sorrow, or humor.

Perhaps she was told not to inject too much personality into her singing, lest it be at odds with the star's persona. Maybe, for dubbing purposes, impersonal was seen as the way to go. The problem is that impersonal is also uninteresting.

R228 The films in question were all made by different studios, so I doubt her being under contract was the reason she got the jobs. She was an expert at dubbing and she had a sort of all-purpose voice and an ability to do accents and to initiate to some extent the people she was dubbing. Like her English accent in An Affair o Remember and The King And I, or her Puerto Rican accent in West Side Story.

I really have a hard time watching the “Marni Nixon musicals” as I call them. Her voice is so weird, at least coming out of other people’s mouths. Sort of alien. And she didn’t sing with any personality or passion.

*imitate, not initiate (spell check “corrected” it)

But R230, the whole point of hiring a star actor is that they inject personality into whatever they do! So if someone like Marni Nixon is dubbing the songs for a big star, the dubber really needs to work with the actor to bring whatever feeling the actor wants to project into the singing. And Marni Nixon never did that, she sang everything sweetly, correctly, and without feeling.

And she really did need to let things soar on occasion. Like I've never forgiven her for the huge "Tonight" ensemble in "West Side Story", where all the groups of characters start singing together in counterpoint, and Tony and Maria start singing a duet that carries over the counterpoint, and Maria's soprano soars above the full orchestra and the entire cast... and Nixon sang that beautiful solo the way she sang everything else! Sweetly, primly, and correctly! It is SUCH a disappointing moment.

By the way, Cary Grant wasn’t Cockney, he wasn’t a Londoner at all, he was from Bristol. He did put on a Cockney accent in Sylvia Scarlet and later in None But The Lonely Heart. And his accent was sort of working class and not posh.

Cary Grant sounds like a caricature of someone overdoing an American accent, including moving his mouth and head weirdly.

It's annoying to watch. I've never gotten into his movies, as a result.

On that “Lost Vocals” youtube channel you can hear Leslie Caron’s original vocals for Gigi and in her case I think I would rather have heard at least some of her own singing. She couldn’t sing but she sounds touching on Say A Prayer For Me Tonight and she’s not bad on The Parisians. He dubber (Betty Wand?) doesn’t really suit her voice.

They could have used Audrey's voice on Wouldn't it be Loverly. She's still a cockney and she gets away with it not bad at all and it would have help establish the character so much. I assume it was Lerner and Previn's decision to have it all dubbed. When the film had its world premiere at the Criterion theater in Times Square(It became a Toys are Us and God knows what it is now)Marni was Eliza in a revival of Lady at City Center.

Never saw it until Warner Bros had a film festival at Radio City Music Hall to a packed crowd. Looked fabulous in 70MM and sounded great in stereophonic sound the way it was originally presented in the Roadshow engagements. I had a grand time.

It is spectacular in 70MM and 6 track stereo. And 70MM was used for outdoor epics. This was filmed entirely on soundstages. I think 2001 was the only other 70MM film(Cinerama) entirely done on sound stages.

We all liked Freddie

The Freddie in Pygmalion gives one of the worst performances ever in a movie and almost single handedly sinks it. Brett is very wonderful. At his most handsome, warm, and charming.

Fascinating connections between MY FAIR LADY and GIGI , the most remarkable being that Alan Jay Lerner wanted Audrey for GIGI. Audrey had performed Anita Loos adaption of Colette's play on Broadway but had no desire to make the musical version for MGM.

Hollywood producer Arthur Freed first proposed a musicalization of the Colette novella to Alan Jay Lerner during the Philadelphia tryout of MY FAIR LADY in 1954. When Lerner arrived in Hollywood two years later, Freed was battling the Hays Code to bring his tale of a courtesan-in-training to the screen. Another roadblock to the project was the fact Colette's widower had sold the rights to her novella to Gilbert Miller, who planned to produce a film version of the 1954 stage adaptation by Anita Loos. It cost Freed more than $87,000 to purchase the rights from Miller and Loos.

Lerner's songwriting partner Frederick Loewe had expressed no interest in working in Hollywood, so Lerner agreed to write the screenplay only. He and Freed discussed casting; Lerner favored Audrey Hepburn, who had starred in the Broadway production written by Loos, but Freed preferred MGM contract star Leslie Caron, who had co-starred in AN AMERICAN IN PARIS for him. Both agreed Maurice Chevalier would be ideal for aging boulevardier Honoré Lachaille, and Lerner proposed Dirk Bogarde for Gaston. Lerner agreed to write the lyrics if Freed could convince Bogarde and designer Cecil Beaton to join the project. He decided to approach Loewe once again, and when he suggested they compose the score in Paris, Loewe agreed.

In March 1957, the duo began working in Paris. When Chevalier, who already had agreed to appear in the film, first heard "Thank Heaven for Little Girls", he was delighted. When he discussed his waning interest in wine and women in favor of performing for an audience in cabarets, Chevalier inadvertently inspired the creation of another tune for his character, "I'm Glad I'm Not Young Anymore". The lyrics for another of his songs, the duet "I Remember It Well", performed with Hermione Gingold as his former love Madame Alvarez, were adapted from words Lerner had written for LOVE LIFE, a 1948 collaboration with Kurt Weill. "Say a Prayer for Me Tonight", a solo performed by Gigi, had been written for Eliza Doolittle in MY FAIR LADY but was removed during the pre-Broadway run. Lerner disliked the melody, but Loewe, Freed, and Minnelli voted to include it in the film.

Lerner recalls that for the film GIGI, "The casting was so haphazard, I don't know how they ever got it on." He wrote the part of Honoré Lachaille for Chevalier, but the rest of the casting was still undecided. Having second thoughts about Audrey Hepburn, Freed asked Lerner to meet with her in Paris, but she declined the role. The producer then asked him to fly to London to speak to Leslie Caron, who was living there with her husband Peter Hall. Lerner was surprised to discover the star had become anglicized to the point of losing her French accent. She had recently starred in an unsuccessful stage production of GIGI but when she heard Lerner's interpretation of the story greatly differed from that of the play, she accepted his offer. Her singing voice was dubbed by Betty Wand, though Caron filmed mainly to her own tracks (a brief clip of Caron's voice is heard in the DVD extras). Dirk Bogarde expressed interest, as well, but ultimately was unable to free himself from his contract with J. Arthur Rank. Recalling Louis Jourdan from his performance in THREE COINS IN THE FOUNTAIN, Freed offered him the role of Gaston.

Bosley Crowther in the The New York Times opened his rave review of GIGI describing it as "a musical film that bears such a basic resemblance to MY FAIR LADY that the authors may want to sue themselves". He added, "But don't think this point of resemblance is made in criticism of the film, for GIGI is a charming entertainment that can stand on its own two legs. It is not only a charming comprehension of the spicy confection of Colette, but it is also a lovely and lyrical enlargement upon that story's flavored mood and atmosphere ... Vincente Minnelli has marshaled a cast to give a set of performances that, for quality and harmony, are superb."

I knew GIGI was a hit and won the Best Picture Oscar, but I did not realize how big a hit it was: "With all 9 nominations, GIGI won a record-breaking nine Academy Awards (at the 1959 Oscars ceremony); however, this record only lasted for one year, as BEN-HUR broke this record the following year with 11 Oscars. In tribute to GIGI'ds domination of the Oscars, the MGM switchboard answered calls the following day with "M-Gigi-M". GIGI, eventually along with 1987's THE LAST EMPEROR held the record as the film(s) with the most Academy Award wins in every category in which it was nominated, until 2003's THE LORD OF THE RINGS - THE RETURN OF THE KING broke the record at the 2004 Oscars ceremony with 11 Oscar nominations and 11 Oscar wins.

"Hollywood producer Arthur Freed first proposed a musicalization of the Colette novella to Alan Jay Lerner during the Philadelphia tryout of MY FAIR LADY in 1954" - MGM was on top of MY FAIR LADY before any other studio.

Not really. CBS held all the rights. MGM could do nothing but buy them for the movie but refused. It must have been very bittersweet for Jack Warner. He thought MFL was going to sweep the world and then in a matter of months The Sound of Music comes along and does just that.

And just think what sweeps the world today. Comic book movies. Is it simply a change or have we regressed?

On the Secret Voices documentary Marni claims that people blamed her for Audrey not being nominated. The idea that Audrey was dubbed was supposed to be a Hollywood secret although dubbing was a standard practice for actors who could not sing. People thought Marni deliberately let the public know she had done the vocals to get the credit despite signing a non disclosure agreement. In the premiere footage Audrey admits to the dubbing indirectly saying I'm not a singer and thanked all the marvellous people who fiddled the knobs.

MGM could have cast me and called it My Sexy Lady.

People had to know that was not Audrey even without Marni saying anything. The transition from one voice to another is so obvious and everybody knew Hepburn was not a trained singer which you had to be to sing that score. Anybody who thought Audrey was really singing when the movie opened could not have been too bright. It should have been known from the beginning and Hepburn would have gotten a well deserved nomination.

I hope Marnie demanded royalties when her contract was drawn up rather than a flat fee. That soundtrack was a huge seller. And who knows with home video she might have gotten something for that.

Marni was one of I think 7 singers who auditioned when Warners called out for a dubber. The MFL making of DVD feature has a call sheet for them.

[quote]My assumption is that she was under studio contract, and since she was the most suitable singer they had under contract rather than the best possible singer for these roles, she got the jobs under discussion.

Completely incorrect.

[quote]Which is a pity, she may have had good diction and pitched her voice to a semi-operatic level rather than operatic, but she just wasn't an interesting singer. She sang all the songs clearly, sweetly, and correctly, but she never made anything *soar*, never infused anything with joy, sorrow, or humor.

Anyone who is familiar with Marni's recordings of the songs from THE KING AND I, especially "Hello, Young Lovers" and "Getting to Know You," knows that you have no idea what you're talking about.

[quote]As for "MFL", for years I've thought that there was one bit where Audrey's own voice was used in a song, the beginning of "Just You Wait 'Enry 'Iggins", where the viciously funny lyrics are half-shouted rather than sung sweetly

Really, Sherlock? This has been a matter of record for years, and has even been covered in documentaries.

[quote]The whole point of hiring a star actor is that they inject personality into whatever they do! So if someone like Marni Nixon is dubbing the songs for a big star, the dubber really needs to work with the actor to bring whatever feeling the actor wants to project into the singing. And Marni Nixon never did that, she sang everything sweetly, correctly, and without feeling.

As per Marni's memoir, and many interviews she gave over the years, THE KING AND was the only time when she had the opportunity to work closely with the actress she was dubbing for, because Deborah Kerr was under no illusions that she could sing the score herself, and she worked very closely with Marni to make the dubbing seamless. So it's no coincidence that many people consider Marni's dubbing of THE KING AND I as the most successful of her three most famous dubbing jobs.

According to Wikipedia the top grossing films of 1958 (the year Gigi won the Best Picture Oscar) were, in order of 1 to 10: South Pacific, Auntie Mame, Cat On A Hot Tin Roof, No Time For Sergeants, Gigi, The Vikings, The Young Lions, The Inn Of he Sixth happiness, Some Came Running, Indiscreet.

Some Came Running was also directed by Minnelli.

In 1964 the top grossing film was Mary Poppins, followed by My Fair Lady at #2. PoppinsMy Fair Lady beat out two James Bond films, two Pink Panther films, and a Beatles film that year.

Is the great Hitchcock film based on Marni Nixon's life?

Yes. In a town of easy virtue, Nixon’s almost psychopathic sexual frigidity kept her from making inroads with producers/casting directors/etc.

The rumored kleptomania was just vicious gossip, however. Begun by rebuffed drama coach Lillian Burns.

[quote] On the Secret Voices documentary Marni claims that people blamed her for Audrey not being nominated.

Marni Nixon would have taken credit for the discovery of the New World if they let her. Her oversize ego must have been the result of being known mostly as a ghost to the real stars.

R256, if indeed people did blame Marni for Audrey not being nominated for MFL, I hardly think Marni saw that as a stroke to her ego. So your bitchery doesn't even make sense, aside from being so unflattering to you.

Could they have nominated Marni for Best Supporting Actress?

Gladys Cooper was nominated for best supporting actress. They could have nominated Marni for biggest blabbermouth. On the set of The Sound of Music Julie accused her of stealing her role telling her she could have sung it better. Things were very tense until Peggy Wood said to Julie 'What is it you cunt face.' This made Anna Lee laugh and the tension was broken.

R225 shavin my taint in the summer heat

Or: Shavian - My Tint!

Audrey got 5 Oscar nominations, and won one. She also got a Tony for Ondine and a few other awards. So what if she didn’t get an Oscar nom for MFL? You can’t get nominated for every role.

It's that it was an *obvious* slight, r262.

She and Gregory Peck were great together in "Roman Holiday." The last scene is stellar.

Does remember another mini-documentary about lip-synching in Hollywood musicals? I've been trying to track it down.

Singin' in the Rain, r265?

I saw Marni play Maria in SOM in stock. She was actually cast as Elsa but subbed for Roberta Peters at the performance I saw. She also did MFL in stock as Eliza and, decades later, Mrs Higgins.

Before he died, actor George Kennedy granted me an interview. He was in an expansive mood and our chat was wide-ranging. We bonded over our mutual love for "Charade," a big break for the aspiring actor.

"Charade" was filmed on location in Paris and stars Audrey Hepburn and Cary Grant. Kennedy plays one of the villains.

Kennedy told me they mostly male cast fell in love with Hepburn, who was on set for only about two weeks. He said after she finished her scenes, she flew to London to make "My Fair Lady." He said the energy among the remaining cast was quite somber because they had had such a great time with Audrey.

[quote]He said after she finished her scenes, she flew to London to make "My Fair Lady."

"My Fair Lady" was filmed entirely at Warner Bros. No scenes were shot in London.

R265 - this one?

Thanks r270 and I'll have a look at that if I can find it streaming.

I did find the one I was looking for on youtube. It's called Dubbing Through the Decades and it's in 2 parts, possibly also produced by the same guy with Charles Bush in the doc upthread. Just one short clip after another another from the late 1920s through the early 2000s with no narration, just captions of the actor and their dubber. Very well put together and quite fun, especially the earlier decades with lots from non-musicals but stars like everyone from John Wayne, Norma Shearer, Myrna Loy, Louise Brooks, Stephen Boyd, Kim Novak, etc. in dramas and westerns where they had a single number.

Sorry nit to link it but very easy to find.

The Ascot sequence is hilarious - the song, Hepburn's entrance, her conversation at tea, Dover's bloomin' arse.

The rest of it is an annoying and mysoyginistic fantasy featuring that well-known straight male icon, the tedious middle-aged fuck who has a cute babe like, totally in love with him.

IIRC the stage play had her telling him to pound sand up his piss-slit.

The film version has her crawling back.

Urrgh.

Both film versions have her crawling back. A musical and movie audience would never have had it any other way. It would have been incomplete. It had to be this way. It's also very beautifully written.

It's about a teacher and a very gifted pupil. Of course people today can only focus on its misogynistic elements because they see everything through a political and literal lens when years ago people were able to enjoy entertainments from many perspectives.

My sister just saw Singin in the Rain for the first time and complained to me the plot didn't make any sense. I said nothing.

R274 what didn't make sense to her?

She took it literally and found too many holes that didn't add up probably. I didn't want to start a discussion about it. I also saw it at Film Form and I was leaving there was a young guy behind me saying something to his friend like I don't get it. But put people in Marvel costumes who destroy universes(or whatever it is they do) and it makes perfect sense.

[quote]Both film versions have her crawling back.

Well, not "crawling" back. That's very inaccurate.

[quote]r273 Both film versions have Eliza crawling back.

Seeing Hepburn sink to her knees while baring her breasts (or what she had of them) in this scene was uncomfortable.

[quote] Both film versions have her crawling back. A musical and movie audience would never have had it any other way. It would have been incomplete. It had to be this way. It's also very beautifully written.

The musical also had that song, I Grew Accustomed to her Face, that turned out to be the most popular song from a very popular original album, that clearly signaled some sort of romantic emotion from Higgins to Eliza, so they couldn't get rid of it and they couldn't finish the story with Eliza telling Higgins to shove it.

Why not, R279? He could sing the song and realize that he's let his chance for happiness with her slip away out of his own pomposity.

"The rest of it is an annoying and mysoyginistic fantasy featuring that well-known straight male icon, the tedious middle-aged fuck who has a cute babe like, totally in love with him."

It made some sense in the 1939 version, when Higgins was in his early forties and handsome, and rude but not given to yelling at Eliza. Harrison's Higgins looks at least 60 and is constantly yelling abuse at his Eliza at the top of a stage actor's well-trained lungs. I don't like the ending in the 1939 version, but I can accept that it might have happened, but I've spend the last 50+ years rolling my eyes at the ending of the 1964 version. It just doesn't work, with Hepburn and Harrison.

The ending of the recent Lincoln Center revival didn't work for me, either. Eliza has told Higgins in no uncertain terms that this is goodbye. Fine. But then she returns for the "where the devil are my slippers" scene. Why? So she could tell him all over again that this is goodbye. It's entirely repetitious and unnecessary. But to distract the audiences, let's have Eliza, instead of exiting the way she came in, exit though the house. Why? Who the hell knows.

Agreed, R282. I honestly think Bartlett Sher came up with that ending because he was desperate and simply couldn't think of anything else to do other than the original staging, which is now considered unacceptable. Meanwhile, other people who are not Tony Award winning directors and are not artistic directors of major NYC theater companies have suggested several alternate endings that would have been far more plausible. For one example: When Higgins says "Eliza, where the devil are my slippers?" in that final scene, Eliza points to where they are but doesn't go and fetch them, instead, Higgins moves to her slowly, and the two of them stand looking at teach other at close distance as the curtain falls. That ending would have had a wonderful ambiguity to it, which I think is what we want from the final scene of MY FAIR LADY.

I should also add that the precise way in which an actor playing Higgins delivers the line "Eliza, where the devil are my slippers?" matters tremendously in terms of whether that line and the final scene are acceptable to modern audiences.

I ate them Rose!

[quote] I should also add that the precise way in which an actor playing Higgins delivers the line "Eliza, where the devil are my slippers?" matters tremendously in terms of whether that line and the final scene are acceptable to modern audiences.

For what modern audiences is Higgins telling Eliza to fetch an acceptable command?

If Higgins says that line with sufficient vulnerability and uncertainty, it would indicate that his usual arrogance has vanished for the moment, and that he feels lost and helpless without Eliza there at his side. The line could be said as a command, or an indication of new vulnerability, or as a demonstration of the kind of dependence where a husband relies on his wife to remember where everything is and when all the appointments are. (Most wives hate that, BTW.)

I also like the idea of Eliza responding by pointing to Higgins's slippers, indicating that if she comes back she's damn well coming changing the terms of their relationship.

What's really confusing? We've never seen Eliza bringing Higgins his slippers or any task even close to that kind of puppyish docility earlier in the show for that final line to make any sense.

Where are my slippers?

In the Smithsonian. How the hell should I know?!

[quote]r284 the precise way in which an actor playing Higgins delivers the line "Eliza, where the devil are my slippers?" matters tremendously

It should be lisped (or hissed) as prissily as possible… as Higgins and Pickering are obviously a pair of tired old queens.

In a touring revival of MFL I saw some 10 or 15 years ago with Christopher Cazenove, when he says "Where are my slippers?" she crosses her arms defiantly, he gets up, looks at her and then he crosses his arms defiantly. Curtain down.

I thought that was the best way to resolve the musical's bad ending. It was left open to your imagination but she was clearly not going to let herself be bullied anymore. And the battle continues...

If you've seen the movie which obviously most of you haven't when he asks her where are his slippers she doesn't say anything or even move. When earlier in the shows he asks for his slippers she throws them at him violently. How are you all so stupid? How are people today all so stupid.

[quote]In a touring revival of MFL I saw some 10 or 15 years ago with Christopher Cazenove, when he says "Where are my slippers?" she crosses her arms defiantly, he gets up, looks at her and then he crosses his arms defiantly. Curtain down.

That touring production was based on a Cameron Mackintosh revival that I originally saw in London and later on tour in the U.S. You left out an important detail. After they both cross their arms defiantly and briefly glare at each other, they both break out in laughter. The show thus ended with a warm moment between the two of them. It remains my favorite version of the ending.

[quote] I actually don't like Julie doing Cockney and she was bad at it in Star !

I hate that stupid dyke and her lame, syrupy, sexless, twee acting in every movie, but STAR! was Michael Craig's entry into the Hollywood A-List, and she RUINED it. Fucking cunt. I'll never forgive her

Also the Bart Sher ending is a direct steal from Ingmar Bergman's A Doll's House which was done in Brooklyn. Not that any theatergoer today would know it.

Clearly, Bart was counting on that, r295.

“Eliza, where the devil are my slippers?” Is not exactly a misogynistic demand. It’s just a question.

Good point, R297. In no version of MY FAIR LADY does Higgins command or even ask Eliza to fetch his slippers, he merely asks where they are, in an absent-minded way.

[quote] The show thus ended with a warm moment between the two of them. It remains my favorite version of the ending.

True, I forgot that! It was a perfect ending.

[quote]Good point, R297. In no version of MY FAIR LADY does Higgins command or even ask Eliza to fetch his slippers, he merely asks where they are, in an absent-minded way.

In both "Pygmalion" and "My Fair Lady," Eliza says to Higgins, "You want me back only to pick up your slippers and put up with your tempers and fetch and carry for you."

You're right, R300, Eliza does have that line. But we never actually see her "fetching and carrying" for Higgins at any point during the play or the musical. What we do see, often, is him treating her like dirt when he's not completely ignoring her.

This one has a sad ending.

Having not seen it, I was kinda shocked she said arse in a movie in 1964. It did get a roar of laughter from Radio City Music Hall.

Frankly, r303, I don't give a damn.

R286 When does he tell her to fetch?

[quote][R286]When does he tell her to fetch?

He says it right before he tells her to roll over and play dead.

People today seem unbearably dumb, to me. They seem to have no sophistication or understanding of subtlety. I guess I’m not really surprised, because what in their entertainment today is subtle?

First, Eliza and Higgins are each saying a line they have already said earlier, in very different contexts. “I washed my face and hands...” and “Eliza, where the devil...?” They’re now both I love and are aware of it. Higgins is not a man to declare his emotions or to be vulnerable, He says to her, “Where, the devil are my slippers?” Because he’s still Henry Higgins. And she smiles, because she understands and loves Henry Higgins. But he’s not saying it as a bossy demand. He’s saying it much the way a husband would say it to a wife. Not demanding that she fetch them like a dog. I’m surprised it needs to be explained.

*in love.

And yes he’s still a basically self-absorbed MAN because that’s always how he’s going to be. But you know he loves her and somehow you know he’s going to be good to her. Despite being the pain in the ass he’s always been.

Henry Higgins, as portrayed in the film, is a goddamn cunt who does not deserve the love of Miss Doolittle, also as portrayed in the film.

I don't give a fuck about his slippers.

[quote] “Eliza, where the devil are my slippers?” Is not exactly a misogynistic demand. It’s just a question.

No, but the way Rex Harrison enunciates the question and how he stretches out in his chair and smiles arrogantly while covering himself with his hat, he sounds like a fucking asshole. And her approaching him sheepishly makes it look like he won the battle of the sexes.

[quote]No, but the way Rex Harrison enunciates the question and how he stretches out in his chair and smiles arrogantly while covering himself with his hat, he sounds like a fucking asshole. And her approaching him sheepishly makes it look like he won the battle of the sexes.

Agreed. The direction of that final moment is one of the major flaws of the MY FAIR LADY film, which has its great moments but it also something of a mess overall because there are SO many things wrong with it.

There are very very few things wrongs with the film and so much magnificently right. The glorious score, the magnificent production, the excellent cast down to the bit players, Harry Stradling's beautiful cinematography... You must have it mixed up with Star! or Darling Lili.

And everyone keeps forgetting that the one time she does get his slippers for him(which she does on her own without being asked) she throws them at him violently.

Leslie Howard sleepwalks through Pygmalion. Harrison bites into and savors every line. Audrey really is a consort for a king. The Freddie alone in Pygmalion is so goddamn awful he practically ruins the entire film. What was Pascal thinking?

Eliza uses arse because in Shaw Eliza uses the word bloody which means nothing to American audiences and it is an American musical made for Broadway audiences.

Had they used Julie Andrews, it would have made no sense for everyone to be so mystified by Eliza at the ball l because Julie looks like a peasant who's better fit for the convent or the stage from 50 yards away. Audrey was an angelic beauty and I can imagine everyone being swept by her.

And yet millions of people around the world paid to see Julie Andrews in the movies. How did they bring themselves to look at her?? One wonders.

How she ever fell in love with Higgins is beyond me. He treated her like shit and he had zero sense of humor. She passes on Freddie for that toad?

Also, I absolutely hate the ending. They make her stand there forever looking at him adoringly while he ignores her. They should have edited it down to where she only stands there 5 seconds, not 30. It’s so awkward and demeaning.

Audrey doesn't seem like a poor cockney. Too aristocratic. The should have cast an actress who could be glamorous but also believable as a down on her luck working class girl.

Audrey looks lovely and it's beautifully produced, but I prefer Pygmalion with Wendy Hiller and Leslie Howard.

Plus Audrey was like 35 playing about 20.

[quote]They should have cast an actress who could be glamorous but also believable as a down on her luck working class girl.

Unfortunately Melanie Griffith was only 7 in 1964.

Let the river run, r319.

[quote]There are very very few things wrongs with the film and so much magnificently right. The glorious score, the magnificent production, the excellent cast down to the bit players, Harry Stradling's beautiful cinematography... You must have it mixed up with Star! or Darling Lili.

I don't have it mixed up with anything, I just don't agree with you. In my opinion, there are many huge flaws in the film of MY FAIR LADY, including (but not limited to) the unsuccessful dubbing of Eliza and Freddy, the very sloppy editing in some sections of the film, the slack direction and pacing in much of it, and the near total destruction of "Get Me to the Church on Time" because of the elimination of almost all of the dancing.

R317

But I must admit that when I was a kid, I loved it. Every single thing. I got in trouble at the breakfast table for repeating what Eliza screams at Ascot.

We kids in the neighborhood knew two musicals by heart and sang them all the time: My Fair Lady and The Sound of Music.

R317 typical gayling

We were a Flahooley and Pousse-Cafe neighborhood, r322.

We used to re-enact scenes from the movie FLASHDANCE in my backyard using chairs and the water sprinkler.

[quote]We kids in the neighborhood knew two musicals by heart and sang them all the time: My Fair Lady and The Sound of Music.

That must have been the gayest neighborhood ever.

There was a musical nudie knock-off titled “My Bare Lady” that played the grind house circuit to cash in on the popularity of this back in the 1960s.

r245: CBS owned the rights. But more than any other Hollywood studio, MGM (Arthur Freed, really) seems to have been keenly interested in what was being developed for Broadway, especially those by composers who had written material for MGM before, Lerner having written the Oscar-winning screenplay for AN AMERICAN IN PARIS.

It is interesting that none of the great Rogers & Hammerstein musicals were filmed by MGM.

[quote]It is interesting that none of the great Rogers & Hammerstein musicals were filmed by MGM.

Lerner and Loewe's "Brigadoon" was filmed by MGM, and it's awful. If ever a film musical needed to be "opened up," it was "Brigadoon," but MGM filmed it on cardboard sets and turned it into a dance musical for Gene Kelly. "On the Town" was filmed by MGM and had most of its original score tossed out and new songs written for the film. Rodgers and Hammerstein were a lot better off having the movie versions of their musicals done at 20th Century Fox.

R326

Not at all. Now that I try to remember, I can think of only one acquaintance I had who might possibly have been gay. New York City kids loved show tunes.

Yeah, I think Richard Rodgers spent much of the 1930s working with Lorenz Hart unhappily in Hollywood and learned how little composers were respected. Not selling the rights to his R&H musicals to MGM was a very conscious choice on his part. 20th Century allowed him far more creative control than MGM ever would have.

If you're old like me you spent a lot your childhood in the knotty pine family rec room listening to 3 OBC albums on the new hifi - South Pacific, West Side Story and MFL. And I also spent a lot of that time pondering the Hirschfeld caricature on the album cover of Eliza (in a short skirt!), Higgins and someone manipulating them with puppet strings, who appeared to be God in the clouds.

[quote]and someone manipulating them with puppet strings, who appeared to be God in the clouds.

But was actually George Bernard Shaw.

Freddy's dubbing was not flawed. It was perfect.

That's why I never get people who say Minnelli should have done Lady. He was a disaster(and I love many of his films) when he adapted Broadway musicals. And I know he didn't do On the Town but with that Roger Edens score it is lousy. Outside of the opening which is great the rest of it is unwatchable. Its classic status is incomprehensible.

I have to say, the fact that this film and the subject are getting and much attention on DL is why I come here, and I haven't even yet commented on this thread. I just love reading everyone's opinions, good or bad.

"people" don't go see Julie Andrews in a movie. Parents take their CHILDREN to watch said movies about a flying nanny or a singing nanny. Julie Andrews, is totally unappealing, totally homely and sexless, and is as elegant, graceful and feminin as and Ikea cupboard. IF Audrey had turned down the part, they would have given it to Elizabeth Taylor. And they told her so. Would you rather see pompous Burton and fat Liz in the movie ?

[quote]of Eliza (in a short skirt!

I find Freddy's dubbing perfect as well. Everybody thinks it was Jeremy Brett but there's that one guy(the one guy in the universe)who thinks the voice type is all wrong for Brett's voice.

I saw Lady once on stage. It was the 20th Anniversary production done by the original producer Herman Levin. Except for the reproduction of the Ascot costumes it was meh and showed nothing of the brilliance of why the show was such a hit. I remember no choreography for Get Me To the Church on Time but I suppose it was there. Turning it into a pub crawl for the film I thought was brilliant. There is so little dancing in the film turning it into a dance number would have been out of place. Wouldn't it be Loverly is beautifully staged but it is movement by a group of middle aged and elderly people rather than dancing.

There is one scene that is a riot of color. It is the opening where the people are leaving the opera house. The Edwardian wraps of the women are so lush and rich in their colors you wonder if this was just a Beaton fantasy or if they really wore such colors. The richly designed ball is all in pastels despite the beauty of the costumes. The red flowers at The End title really pop because you've seen so little of it during the movie. You see this especially in the recent bluray and 4k.

Also about the ending. It is all done to music so I bet Andrews and Harrison stayed there just as long on stage.

To be fair I think Cabaret was completely ruined as a film but everyone loves it so there you are. I comfort myself with the obc and Jill Haworth and fantasize that I was able to see the original Prince production. That opening on the Tonys is a joy and we are lucky to have it.

For some reason Elizabeth Taylor was keen to do a musical. she wanted to do South Pacific as well. She finally did A Little Night Music.

Who doesn't want to see Liz doing a cartwheel?

Anyone who has seen Liz Taylor lip synching in " a date with Judy" knows that she should have stayed away from musicals. And that was when she was at her most photogenic. Liz could't pretend to sing, she certainly couldn't dance at all ("the only game in town", anyone ?) and could barely act.

My Fair Clit

I remember visiting a family with my parents and I spent the time with the kids in the basement rec room listening to The Sound Of Music (Broadway album). In suburban Mass. So yeah kids did listen to this stuff.

I had Marni Nixon's "Mary Poppins" recording, not Julie's. It was sufficient for a toddler.

scary

r332: And Eliza's ankle-strap 'Fuck-Me" pumps.

False advertising, but it was an era where gams were a selling point.

[quote]I find Freddy's dubbing perfect as well. Everybody thinks it was Jeremy Brett but there's that one guy(the one guy in the universe)who thinks the voice type is all wrong for Brett's voice.

I can't believe that you or anyone else finds that dubbing acceptable, let alone "perfect." The change in timbre between Brett's speaking voice and Bill Shirley's singing voice is so huge that it's very jarring whenever there's a switch from one to the other, not to mention the fact that Shirley only vaguely attempts a Brit accent, and that accent is quite different from Brett's.

[quote]I saw Lady once on stage. It was the 20th Anniversary production done by the original producer Herman Levin. Except for the reproduction of the Ascot costumes it was meh and showed nothing of the brilliance of why the show was such a hit. I remember no choreography for Get Me To the Church on Time but I suppose it was there. Turning it into a pub crawl for the film I thought was brilliant. There is so little dancing in the film turning it into a dance number would have been out of place.

Why would dancing have been out of place amongst a group of people drinking and celebrating during a pub crawl? Anyway, the main reason why the elimination of dancing from that number was such a mistake is that, of course, they also cut the dance music. Instead, Stanley Holloway and the chorus just keep singing the same lyrics over and over, which is tremendously boring.

"If you're old like me you spent a lot your childhood in the knotty pine family rec room listening to 3 OBC albums on the new hifi - South Pacific, West Side Story and MFL."

For my early childhood it was the original cast album of "West Side Story", and the soundtracks from "Mary Poppins" and "The Sound of Music", because my parents weren't as tasteful as yours! To this day I can sing every damn note of "West Side Story" and consider it the best musical ever written, while the Disney soundtracks have mercifully faded out of my memory bank.

And that's one thing Kids Today Don't Understand, how scarce recorded music was when we were kids. The average house had a few dozen records and a radio, and you just had to listen to the same things over and over and over.

[quote]or my early childhood it was the original cast album of "West Side Story", and the soundtracks from "Mary Poppins" and "The Sound of Music", because my parents weren't as tasteful as yours! To this day I can sing every damn note of "West Side Story" and consider it the best musical ever written, while the Disney soundtracks have mercifully faded out of my memory bank.

But MARY POPPINS was a Disney soundtrack. Has that one also "mercifully" faded out of your memory bank?

As popular as the OBC recording of WEST SIDE STORY was, the film soundtrack was exponentially more popular -- not only one of the best selling movie musical soundtrack albums of all time, but literally one of the all-time best-selling LPs in any genre of music. Quite an amazing achievement.

Jumbo Vulva

We had only enough albums to fit into the side compartment of our RCA hi-fi. My grandad bought me a portable and the Mary Poppins soundtrack. I don’t remember having the West Side Story album but we did have the Decca recording of Oklahoma.

We had Kiss Me, Kate on 78 rpm.

My father owned the MFL OBC record. My mother owned Sinatra.

"Has that one also "mercifully" faded out of your memory bank?"

Yes! Mercifully, because the music from that movie isn't that great. I watched for the first time in about forty years when I got Disney+, and well, meh. Not that good a movie, score is fine but not earthshaking. "Saving Mr. Banks" was actually a lot more fun, because it gave Emma Thompson the rare chance to play a hilarious cunt.

But over 50-odd years of listening, "West Side Story" has never lost an iota of its glory. The music is utterly sublime, and even the recent remake was pretty damn good!

Sinatra doing My Fair Lady

My Fair Lady - the Broadway show - was recorded in mono, and was a huge seller. It was then re-recorded (all new recording sessions) a few years later (I think) in stereo. I think the stereo recording may have been done in London. The mono album sleeve is white, the stereo is pink, I think (?) It’s interesting to compare the performances.

R357, I heartily agree with you about WEST SIDE STORY but not about MARY POPPINS. I think the POPPINS score is excellent and wonderfully appropriate to the style of the story and the film, and I have the impression that a great many people share my opinion.

"The title My Fair Lady is from the cockney pronunciation of Mayfair lady. Mayfair is one of the richest districts of London, located in the West End. The name comes from a fair that was formerly held there each May. The story is about how a Lisson Grove girl becomes a Mayfair lady, and the consequences of that transformation."

r349: Another great example of leg art not remotely found in the finished film.

I hate it too. Op. I dislike most of Hepburn's films excluding Roman Holiday but including Breakfast at Tiffany's.

I think Roman Holiday and The Nun's Story are great, and she's great in them.

r361...

Camelot: What Do the Simple Folk Do?

[quote] I think the POPPINS score is excellent and wonderfully appropriate to the style of the story and the film, and I have the impression that a great many people share my opinion.

I certainly do. It's a wonderful score that had much to do with the huge success of the movie.

The anatomy on Judy's and Van's bodies in that poster art illustration at r362 is horrendous!

"In the Good Old Summertime" is one of the oddest MGM titles ever, and that poster is about as strange. It's a musical remake of "The Shop Around the Corner" and takes place almost entirely at Christmas.

While The Shop Around the Corner does indeed mostly take place at Christmas time, I'm not so sure that's true of In the Good Old Summertime.

Anyone who doesn't like Sabrina or Charade simply doesn't have a soul.

Who doesn't love Sabrina?

R361 I thought it came from the nursery rhyme, London Bridge. (London Bridge is falling down, My fair lady.)

I like Sabrina (I don’t adore it) but I think it’s one of Billy Wilder’s softest, mildest comedies. Charade I really don’t care for,

I hate the poster art. That doesn't look a damn thing like Audrey.

[quote]While The Shop Around the Corner does indeed mostly take place at Christmas time, I'm not so sure that's true of In the Good Old Summertime.

It follows the original quite closely, but the ending tacks on the song "In the Good Old Summertime" with the now-married Judy and Van walking with their toddler, played by Liza Minnelli in her screen debut.

R376 Not just tacked on at the ending. It’s also a number near the start of the film, in a park. That part of the film takes place in the summer.

And I don’t think The Shop Around the Corner takes place mostly at Christmas time.

It is a kind of Christmasy movie in that a very important part of it takes place at Christmas. Though tacking on In the Good Old Summertime just to give the movie a name is odd. i did get the bluray because it is so good.

It's not a favorite film. The original is perfect and interestingly much darker and sadder. How did Louis B let it slip by?

It's actually kind of interesting, because Judy Garland was certainly capable of giving a darker nuance to her roles, yet ITGOST is one of the cheeriest musicals she made at MGM in her last years. I imagine Van Johnson's non-threatening and sunny demeanor as her co-star added to that. Wasn't this film supposedly the least plagued by her insecurities and emotional tumult?

But Judy certainly could have given the more poignant approach to her character that Margaret Sullavan delivered had she been called upon to do so. It's really a perfect example of how LB Mayer and MGM sometimes misused Judy and wasted her talents.

There is only one Eliza Doolittle and that's JULIE!

Here's another one.

Sabrina. A teen being slobbered over by two middle aged drunks. Charade, an emaciated middle aged woman chasing a closeted gay man.

No, thanks.

There's only one Eliza and that's Mrs Patrick Campbell!

In The Good Old Summertime is a Joe Pasternak musical, not an Arthur Freed musical. Pasternak made very light musicals, usually with some classical element (probably why they fit in the pretty classical violinist Marcia Van Dyke). They weren’t going to have an attempted suicide in a Pasternak musical (probably not in a Freed musical, either, but Freed and Minnelli did go for darker themes).

The movie was originally announced to star June Allyson and Frank Sinatra.

Yes this was supposed to be one. Of Judy’s most pleasant assignments near the end of her MGM career. Van Johnson said he gave her positive attention and little gifts, etc. But also she didn’t really have to learn any major choreography, she wasn’t dancing with Gene Kelly or Fred Astaire, and there were no production numbers, so that would make a musical easier for anyone.

Every home in America had "The Sound Of Music" and "My Fair Lady". "The Sound Of Music" soundtrack stayed on the Billboard charts for 480 weeks, when you actually had to get off your ass and go to a store to buy it.

No one like this patriarchal crap. Old man thinks he can teach a woman how to behave. Hard pass.

[quote]Every home in America had "The Sound Of Music" and "My Fair Lady".

Also the WEST SIDE STORY film soundtrack album. It would probably be only a slight exaggeration to say that every home in America had at least one or two of those, if not all three.

And South Pacific! Don't forget that one. And also a Harry Belafonte calypso album.

Sondheim(though he probably disliked it) said the film is what made WSS a popular classic. It was also because of the success of film's soundtrack lp that he claimed he lost a lot of money which he never forgot.

Yes at that time it seemed like all homes had the lps to the obcs of Sound of Music, My Fair Lady and the soundtrack to WSS.

[quote]It was also because of the success of film's soundtrack lp that he claimed he lost a lot of money which he never forgot.

Can you please explain? Sondheim has said that he declined a larger share of the royalties as offered to him by Bernstein while the Broadway show was being written, after it became clear that Sondheim would be writing nearly all of the lyrics. (The original plan was that SS would collaborate with Bernstein.) Is that what you're referring to? If so, that deal was made long before the movie was even planned. Anyway, Sondheim still got a lot more money from the sales of the WSS movie soundtrack album than he would have gotten if the movie hadn't been made, or if that album hadn't been such a spectacular success. And he certainly didn't "lose" any money from the soundtrack LP, so you seem confused.

We watch the "Them as pinched it don'er in" scene once a year for a good laugh. It never gets old.

Yes Sondheim said he was so happy to receive full credit for the lyricist's contribution that he said it wasn't necessary to receive full lyricist royalties which then went to Bernstein. The soundtrack lp went on to be such a monster success so he 'lost' half of what he should have made. Which I assume was a hell of a lot of money.

[quote][R361] I thought it came from the nursery rhyme, London Bridge. (London Bridge is falling down, My fair lady.)

I believe the working title was MY FAIR LIZA at one point, which thankfully didn't stick.

Has anyone watched this TV version with Peter O'Toole and Margot Kidder?

Saw it once because it was so famous, so renowned etc. I found it dull and boring. The songs were not memorable or pleasant. In general I still don't understand why Anglosaxons are so fond of musicals on films.

R339 Well, if you wanted dancing, I saw the London revival in the early 1980s I think somewhere in the middle of the run where since Dame Anna Neagle was playing Higgins' Mother that they actual added a dance break for her to do at the Embassy Ball! It wasn't such a good production, not with touches like Alfred Doolittle picking lice out of his clothes when he visited Higgins' house. Yuck. Liz Robertson had left the production by then (apparently having gotten excellent reviews), and the Eliza I was adequate. I later saw Robertson, one of Alan Jay Lerner's wives, in NY in the dreadful "Dance a Little Closer" a/k/a "Close a Little Faster" where she had like zero presence, Len Cariou had no voice left from "Sweeney Todd" and while you could tell there were some very nice melodies by Charles Strouse, the show was so bad that even George Rose didn't come off well.

[quote]Yes Sondheim said he was so happy to receive full credit for the lyricist's contribution that he said it wasn't necessary to receive full lyricist royalties which then went to Bernstein. The soundtrack lp went on to be such a monster success so he 'lost' half of what he should have made. Which I assume was a hell of a lot of money.

Right, but of course, he didn't "lose" it -- he just didn't earn anywhere near as much as would have earned if he hadn't made the unfortunate decision to decline full lyricist's royalties. But he still got paid co-lyricist's royalties for the spectacular sales of that soundtrack album, which must have amounted to a very tidy sum. And also, I assume those royalty payments would have continued till Sondheim's death, even though in lesser numbers as the years went by. But there was probably a huge spike when the album was first transferred to CD.

[quote]Yes Sondheim said he was so happy to receive full credit for the lyricist's contribution that he said it wasn't necessary to receive full lyricist royalties which then went to Bernstein. The soundtrack lp went on to be such a monster success so he 'lost' half of what he should have made. Which I assume was a hell of a lot of money.

Well it was good thing he was a lyricist and not an accountant.

Accountants only slow things down; figures get in the way.

I don't understand why Sondheim turned down royalties as the WSS lyricist. What am I missing?

R401, I'm not sure that he ever explained his reasoning. Maybe that he was just starting out as a very young man and was so grateful to be given full lyric writing credit, as he was initially hired to collaborate with Bernstein on the lyrics. And, of course, Sondheim had no way of knowing what a phenomenon WEST SIDE STORY would become, and that he would be earning considerable amounts of money from it for the rest of his life from countless productions and recordings, including a remake of the film by one of the most popular directors of all time, which was made not long before Sondheim's death.

Yes he was so happy to have received full credit that full royalties wasn't necessary. I read him saying this a couple of times so with the success of the film lp(who knew?) it clearly hurt.

And Bernstein gave a piece of a percentage point to Marni Nixon because the producers refused. She was only going to get a flat fee. I hope she reworked that with My Fair Lady. As Andrews only got a flat fee for both Poppins and Music I hope through the soundtracks and home video she made a fortune. There was the very famous battle with Peggy Lee and Disney(who said she did the movie for a flat fee) when Lady and the Tramp became a big home video success. She won.

R395 I watched it. It’s pretty good. It also played on Broadway with O’Toole, John Mills as Doolittle, Amanda Plummer as Eliza.

Margery MacKay dubbed Peggy Wood's big number in Sound of Music, Climb Every Mountain. Ms. Wood in her day could have hit the song out of the park including high notes, but by then that wasn't physically possible any longer.

Pity of it was MacKay couldn't sync her voice to Ms. Wood's so Mother Abbess sings her big number either in darkness, silhouette or camera focused at a distance. Only at final high note does everything seem to come together.

My friends and I used to always go through their parents’ record collections and I honestly don’t remember too many people owning those three albums. (MFL, TSOM, WSS.) My parents owned MFL. One of my friends’ moms had a 3-record set of the film soundtracks of Carousel, The King And I, and Oklahoma. That was pretty cool at the time because the stereo sound quality was great.

My folks had Disney's "Jungle Book" LP, don't as me why..

Need to nose around next time am home to see if it's still there.

We also had some 78s still around. Classical, big band music, Bing Crosby, Danny Kaye, Perry Como, even the soundtrack to the MGM musical, Words And Music.

And everybody with a knotty pine rec room had that Herb Alpert album with the naked girl covered in whipped cream.

Love the musical, but hate the movie.

In my family, we had this album, which became my favorite.

It's basically the whole movie abridged. Like listening to the film instead of watching it.

I remember staring at the cover and wondering why they changed Dorothy's dress to red and why she wasn't wearing ruby slippers.

[quote]As Andrews only got a flat fee for both Poppins and Music I hope through the soundtracks and home video she made a fortune.

I don't know what kind of deal, if any, she worked out for the home video releases, but Andrews has said that she made far, far more money in royalties for the soundtrack album of THE SOUND OF MUSIC than what she was paid for starring in the movie itself.

r412: I had that album as well! With The Cowardly Lion on the back the album tossing flowers.

I liked they had a bit of the overture, and they got rid of all the Professor Marvel scenes.

Eyye lykk err convinsing aksent eyye do!

Yes, R414, but the editing of that album was pretty sloppy overall, because in trying to retain enough dialogue to tell pretty much the whole story of the movie, they had to cut out a LOT of music entirely or edit it ruthlessly. And as for that great overture/main title, they cut about half of it, including the two most beautiful sections -- that majestic version of Glinda's theme that plays under the MGM lion logo, and the choral singing of the "Come out, come out, wherever you are" melody.

[R406] But wouldn’t it have been the other way around?—that the recording was made first and Peggy Wood couldn’t get the lipsynching right, so it was filmed to cover this up?

I love a musical where nobody can sing.

R417, yes, it's usually done that way. Although sometimes, rarely, the dubbing is looped, as was the case with Marni Nixon/Natalie Wood in WEST SIDE STORY.

R413 - that was the same story with Mitzi and South Pacific. But then that film didn't really do much for her career. She waited for an Academy Award nomination and new musical offers that new came.

never came...

Mitzi was talented, her TV specials are great, but she has an odd quality that's grating. To show bizzy and performative. Not natural at all. She's better in small doses.

r416: Point taken. I miss the "Leo the Lion" first six notes "Da-Da-Da-DUM-Da-Dahhh ___ Da-Da-Da-DUM-Dah-DAhhh" which portend a horror movie (which is def. true in parts!) I never realized they form a dark dramatic version of 'Glinda;s theme". Thank you for pointing that out.

Seeing Mitzi Gaynor in person I was very impressed by her. Not at all grating. Very entertaining, charming, dynamic and enjoyable.

(Met her later, too - she couldn't have been nicer.)

She seemed very genuine and self-aware in this interview.

R426 I think she also said something like this when she was interviewed by Ben Mankiewicz. I don't think movies captured too much of what was really special about her as a performer. She seemed to need to hold back.

Also I don't think she was ever in a Broadway show and she could easily have done one, or been one of the many follow-up Mames or Dollys.

Mitzi like Ann Margret was a Vegas star. She though is wonderful in SP and really comes through at the crucial moment when she finds out Emile's children are of mixed race.

For my friend's 50th birthday, someone in his family unearthed the picture of him at around age 7-8 clutching the Sound of Music album to his chest, which he'd obviously just received as a birthday present and showed it on a DVD that was a round-up of pictures from his life. I was sitting next to him and slid right off my chair, I was laughing so hard . His expression of over-the-moon ecstasy was hysterical. No one in his family was too shocked when he came out as gay at age 24.

R410 I actually cried when I saw the picture of the naked girl on the "Whipped Cream" album for some reason when my brother bought it at the department store. He thought my reaction was kind of funny. Maybe I thought my Mom would hit her for making a mess with all that cream (which I read was actually shaving cream).

[quote] Julie Andrews, is totally unappealing, totally homely and sexless, and is as elegant, graceful and feminin as and Ikea cupboard

I had a big crush on her as a little kid in Mary Poppins. I thought she was beautiful with her big blue eyes, bright red lips and her firm but caring demeanor. I had no idea she was the same person in The Sound of Music, where I didn’t care for her.

I was probably 6 years old when I learned how to use my parents record player and I would quietly sit on the couch listening to The Sound of Music, Mary Poppins and The Three Little Pigs. I loved looking at the albums. Can you imagine kids doing that today?

I had the Mary Poppins carousel board game though remember nothing about it.

[quote]I miss the "Leo the Lion" first six notes "Da-Da-Da-DUM-Da-Dahhh ___ Da-Da-Da-DUM-Dah-DAhhh" which portend a horror movie (which is def. true in parts!) I never realized they form a dark dramatic version of 'Glinda;s theme". Thank you for pointing that out.

You're welcome. I didn't realize that myself until maybe about 15 or 20 years ago, when I read it somewhere. I had gone all my life loving that opening music of THE WIZARD OF OZ without realizing it was a dark, majestic arrangement and orchestration of the Glinda theme. As far as I'm concerned, whoever had the idea to use that music in such a brilliant, different, creative way was a true genius.

R434 Wasn't it Herbert Stothart? He was the head of the MGM music dept. and scored the film (and won an Oscar). Not usually thought of as one of the great film composers, his music for MGM movies was sort of behind the curve and kind of meandering and gloppy, though sometimes I liked it in the right movie.

R428 she did Jollyanna after making a few films in the 1950s but it was a flop. Then in the late 1980s she did the touring company of Anything Goes. But Mitzi made enough from her Vegas appearances to settle for life, then she got the added deals for her tv specials.

R436 Thanks. I didn't know she did any shows. I see from looking it up that Jollyanna was a reworking of Flahooley (!) Didn't ever play Broadway, did it?

I never knew Mitzi was big in Vegas. When I saw her it was in a theatre in the round on Cape Cod. I think she did a lot of touring in summer theatre in her one-woman show.

Problem with SOM and Peggy Wood singing "Climb Ev'ry Mountain" were not result of Margery MacKay's.

Rather great actress she was Peggy Wood kept missing starting her "singing" in sync with dubbed track. So finally it was suggested Ms. Wood turn away from camera and sing with her back towards Sister Maria in sort of darkness. This solved the problem and Ms. Wood was able to get herself together for balance of song.

When people saw the takes by Ms. Wood facing away from camera it gave whole thing sort of an other world feeling, as if Mother Abbess was receiving some sort of divine inspiration, so a decision was made in end to leave things as they were.

It's amazing what Hollywood was able to get up to under studio system. So called great stars of musicals like Rita Hayworth were consistently dubbed.

They also had to obscure Andrews and Plummer in silhouette during "Something Good," because they couldn't stop giggling.

They keep showing the gazebo in Sound of Music tours in Austria. But that gazebo is a Hollywood set. It's pretty obvious. Especially when Carr said Sixteen Going on Seventeen was the last scene shot in the movie. At that point they were back in LA finishing interiors.

I thought the opening scene was the last thing shot?

Isn't this a thread about My Fair Lady?

[quote] I thought the opening scene was the last thing shot?

It was the last thing shot on location.

[quote]Wasn't it Herbert Stothart?

Probably, but I'm thinking it might have been one of the orchestrators who arranged and orchestrated the main title music.

How amazing to think back in the old days of Golden Age Hollywood (really before MFL and SOM), everything from orchestrating and playing the score, to building all the sets and costumes to a schoolhouse for child actors to...on and on and on....was accomplished on one huge piece of land. It surely helped make those dream factories run smoothly.

The Brits never forgave Audrey for taking the role.

R446 was that Emma Thompson's beef with her?

My quivering clit

R438 So-called great star Rita Hayworth was actually a terrific dancer, a good actress and gorgeous. And a legit great star!

[quote]Rita Hayworth was actually a terrific dancer

Rita danced with such abandon and her smile seemed sincere...like she really enjoyed dancing.

My Quivering Sphincter

Rita H was a brilliant presence dancing onscreen and I guess she was lucky that her speaking voice wasn't particularly distinctive because her singing dubbers were mostly undetectable, especially Anita Ellis ("Put the Blame on Mame").

Was Jane Russell dubbed in GENTLEMEN PREFER BLONDES? If she was, the dubber was a great match!

Jane Russell and Marilyn Monroe did their own singing in Gentlemen Prefer Blondes.

Except for Marni Nixon dubbing Marilyn's operatic high no's at the beginning of "Diamond's Are a Girl's Best Friend."

Jane Russell had quite a good singing voice and did live theatre, notably replacing Elaine Stritch in "Company" during the original Broadway run.

Boobies!

I like big muscles

And red cor-puscles!

My Fair Lovelady

Is Lovey Howell's first name short for Lovelady?

Five months before the World Premiere at Broadway's Criterion Theatre, Warner Bros. placed an ad in the NY Times for anyone giving a donation of $150 to the Will Rogers Hospital and Research Laboratory could join the stars at the White Tie Premiere and champagne supper after. A once in a lifetime experience $150 would be the equivalent of about $1500 today.

Honest question, R45: Are you a troll, or mentally challenged?

That awful quote from Emma Thompson -- for which she got a lot of deserved blow-back -- came when it was announced that she would be directing a remake of MY FAIR LADY, which of course never happened.

That whole sequence when Eliza comes to Higgens' home to see if he will teach her is magnificently directed by Cukor and beautifully acted by everyone and the tea sequence alone(except the tea cup on the hat already discussed) merited Cukor his Oscar. They are master classes in direction and acting.

Also there are beautiful moments that could never be done on stage. The early morning in Convent Garden that starts out with the actors suddenly freezing, the camera scanning all those flowers and Eliza looking at all the old women as she hears Higgin's voice in her head. The people leaving Ascot in the carriages and the shadows and the ending of On the Street Where You Live.

[quote]Also there are beautiful moments that could never be done on stage. The early morning in Convent Garden that starts out with the actors suddenly freezing,

I hate those freezes, because they're so stagey that they take me out of the movie.

[quote]I hate those freezes, because they're so stagey that they take me out of the movie.

But characters suddenly bursting into song, accompanied by full orchestrations, don't take you out of the movie?

Some us expect that sort of thing in a musical, R465.

[quote] That awful quote from Emma Thompson -- for which she got a lot of deserved blow-back -- came when it was announced that she would be directing a remake of MY FAIR LADY, which of course never happened.

...in which she was going to expand on the story of Mrs. Pearce. True thing. And guess who was going to play Mrs. Pearce?

[quote]I hate those freezes, because they're so stagey that they take me out of the movie.

[quote]But characters suddenly bursting into song, accompanied by full orchestrations, don't take you out of the movie?

No, because characters bursting suddenly into song, accompanied full orchestrations, is an established convention of musicals on stage and film, whereas that moment of people freezing in their tracks while walking through Covent Garden is a form of stylization that's rarely if ever seen in movies. Come to think of it, that same bit is also done in the opening number of the film of HOW TO SUCCEED IN BUSINESS WITHOUT REALLY TRYING, and I don't like it there, either.

Do you think Jack Warner ever considered this as a vehicle for his biggest singing star Doris Day?

I cannot for the life of me imagine Dodo with a Cockney accent.

"that moment of people freezing in their tracks while walking through Covent Garden is a form of stylization that's rarely if ever seen in movies"

Well, it's been used to great effect in the X-Men movies!

Musicals, eh.

In On Cukor Jeanine Basinger makes the case that Cukor was usually a brilliant translator of plays and books to film, but MFL is his least effective one.

R467 who?

I love those freezes. It is perfectly matched to the music(the intro to wouldn't it be loverly) and the early morning chimes. It matches the freezes in the Ascot scene. It is part of the stylization of the whole film. It is also a technical tour de force because those dancers are really holding still just like in the Ascot. I guess the Ascot takes you out of the film as well.

Jeanine Basinger's (who I love) comments do not appear in ON CUKOR.

Doris Day was long out of Jack Warner's clutches by the time of MFL.

[quote]Well, it's been used to great effect in the X-Men movies!

I'm pretty sure that, in those movies, the actors' images are frozen through special effects, rather than them just freezing in place.

[quote]I love those freezes. It is perfectly matched to the music(the intro to wouldn't it be loverly) and the early morning chimes. It matches the freezes in the Ascot scene. It is part of the stylization of the whole film. It is also a technical tour de force because those dancers are really holding still just like in the Ascot. I guess the Ascot takes you out of the film as well.

I was going to mention the Ascot scene. And yes, I also think that scene is not completely successful, because as well done as it is from a costume design perspective, it takes me out of the film because of the way in which the singers' movement (and non-movement) is stylized -- and also because it's the ONE scene in the entire film that's very obviously shot on a sound stage rather than at an actual location. The filmmakers went out of their way to remove ALL non-diegetic dancing and choreography from the movie, but then they have two scenes where some of the actors very unnaturally freeze in place, and that what takes me out of the movie. Of course, you are perfectly entitled to disagree.

About the Ascot scene which I do love Cukor was not entirely happy with it and wanted to reshoot some of it. When Jack Warner heard this he had the set torn down. Beaton was appalled by some of the people used. I would have thought he would have total say. He was not too pleased with the film.

But if you read Beaton's diaries he didn't seem to like anything. He out queens just about everybody.

"Beaton was appalled by some of the people used."

Tell me more. Was that bitch pissed off because they didn't use fashion models to wear his fabulous costumes onscreen, but people who might look like a crowd of aristocrats? Who would naturally skew as older and well-fed?

[quote]I was going to mention the Ascot scene. And yes, I also think that scene is not completely successful, because as well done as it is from a costume design perspective, it takes me out of the film because of the way in which the singers' movement (and non-movement) is stylized -- and also because it's the ONE scene in the entire film that's very obviously shot on a sound stage rather than at an actual location.

Um, the entire movie was shot on sound stages. There isn't a single actual location used.

R481, please re-read what I wrote. I'm well aware that the whole movie was shot on sound stages, but my point is that the Ascot scene is the one scene in the film where it's very OBVIOUSLY a sound stage, because of the backdrops.

I was going to clarify that I knew the whole thing was shot on sound stages, but I didn't think it necessary. For example, you may disagree, but I think the Covent Garden scenes, especially the scenes at the very beginning of the film, look very much as if they were shot on location -- though I KNOW they were not. (Is that clear enough for you?)

The whole film looks like it's shot on sound stages! Nothing looks naturalistic, certainly not the street scenes!

It's one of the many reasons I don't love the movie, although of course reason #1 is the staginess. Distant camera, loudly projected actor-y voices, I've been though it all above, and the freeze moments don't help. Everything about the film creates an emotional distance between the viewer and the characters, in a drama that ought to be intimate. It's all about feelings, so spectacle and staginess is absolutely the wrong way to shoot this story.

[quote]The whole film looks like it's shot on sound stages! Nothing looks naturalistic, certainly not the street scenes!

I strongly disagree. Have you ever been to Covent Garden? I could absolutely believe, if I didn't know otherwise, that those opening scenes were shot there. The recreation of the square looks quite photo-realistic to me, not noticeably stylized in any way.

I've always thought that Ascot scene should have given us some views of the race/track from the crowds' perspective.

As it is, it looks/feels like a pro-shot of the stage sow.

[quote](Is that clear enough for you?)

Oh, sure. Submit a misleading, poorly written post and then blame it on someone failing to understand your sterling prose. You're the one who used the words "actual location."

I don't think any of those older people in the Ascot stands at r480 are seen earlier swanning around. The female dancers in the "Gavotte" section are younger but still not particularly attractive (and with all that horrible 60s bouffant wigs and hair) and don't really wear the gowns as well as 1950s chorus girls would have.

I cannot believe how this thread refuses to die. Who would have thought??

[quote] and also because it's the ONE scene in the entire film that's very obviously shot on a sound stage rather than at an actual location.

You thought the set of Covent Garden was actually a location? And the streets around Higgins' home?

R475 she is in the documentary

[quote] Rex Harrison prevented Julie Andrews from playing the part of Eliza Dolittle- he was JEALOUS of her and her success and felt if she'd been allowed to play her she would have received ALL of the attention.

That’s not true at all. Rex Harrison had absolutely zero power on the film of MFL. Jack Warner famously didn’t want him, all Hollywood knew it, so when he finally did get the part, he was just grateful to have it and he kept his thoughts to himself.

r490, Oh! Please forgive me, I thought you were referring to the 1972 book ON CUKOR which is a wonderful series of interviews with George that Gavin Lambert conducted back then. It was probably before you were born.

I think Harrison got 200k and Audrey a million. The second actor to get a million for a film after Liz. Julie would have done it for a box lunch.

Oh, for pity's sake!!!! I'm well aware that the entire film of MY FAIR LADY was shot on sound stages. What I meant, and what I wrote, was that the Ascot scene is the only one in the film that obviously LOOKS like it was shot on a sound stage (which it was), as compared to the Covent Garden scenes, for example, which are also supposed to be exteriors but which LOOK like they are exteriors shot on location.

R493 I'm surprised Doris Day wasn't one of the first. She was the #1 movie star in 1960, 1962, 1963, and 1964. She was also among the Top 10 bankable actors in 1951, 1952, 1965, and 1966.

Elizabeth Taylor was #1 in 1961 and was among the Top 10 in 1958, 1960, 1962, 1963, 1965, 1966, 1967, and 1968.

On the other hand, Audrey Hepburn never made the list, so I don't know why she was considered a bankable actress. That's presumably why Warner wanted her over Julie Andrews, who indeed made the list several times in the latter '60s (1965, 1968), twice at #1 (1966, 1967).

Doris could do accents.

Thank you, r496: A so much better movie than ANNIE GET YOUR GUN.

And the Sammy Fain - George Francis Webster. score is just as good.

You must remember that initially, when stars like Taylor and Hepburn were being paid a million dollars for a film, those particular films CLEOPATRA and MFL were year long commitments. Was a million dollars for a year's work really so outrageous in retrospect?

PS: yes, I know that it didn't take a year for Audrey to shoot MFL, but what with wardrobe fittings, wardrobe and hair and makeup tests, recording sessions, singing and dancing lessons, publicity jaunts, etc. it must have added up to at least a year. And CLEOPATRA was probably in Liz's life for much longer than a year.

[quote]And the Sammy Fain - George Francis Webster. score is just as good.

No, it REALLY is not.

Calamity Jane’s score may not be the equal of Annie Get Your Gun, but it’s still a great score.

Did Doris have any upper register? Or was she just loud with the big notes?

[quote]Calamity Jane’s score may not be the equal of Annie Get Your Gun, but it’s still a great score.

Not in my opinion. There's one great song, "Secret Love," and "The Deadwood Stage" is certainly very rousing and catchy. But the other songs range from mediocre to downright bad, including that awful "Anything You Can Do" rip-off.

It has the lesbianic Woman's Touch...

Secret...

I like the Black Hills Of Dakota song. I like I Can Do Without You and I like that it was obviously recorded live, not pre-recorded.

By the way, where do you folks think My Fair Lady could have been filmed, if not on sound stages? The back lot? On location? What would have been the point of traveling to England and spending gazillions to close down locations and take out all the modern things? To show a street corner? Did you want them to film on location at Ascot? That scene was supposed to be stylized.

Well, to begin with just the Ascot scene, r506........it doesn't even feel like it's outdoors. Filming on an outdoor lot with some sky and sunshine and real lawns might have been a good start. The sets in the scene are so minimal, really meagre, it all feels cheap, like they just assumed Sir Cecil's frocks alone would carry it. They didn't. The frocks would have looked better against some handsome reality

Did Warners still have their backlot? I don't think their backlot was ever as grand as those of MGM or Fox. I remember they had a New York street for all their gangster movies.

With all those Westerns they were producing for TV in the early 1960s, Warners certainly still had a lot of backlot.

I still maintain “My Fair Clit” is uproariously funny.

Warners had the Warner Ranch, about a mile away from their main lot in Toluca Lake. They also had Warner Center in Woodland Hills, The carnival murder scene in Strangers on a Train was filmed there.

[quote]By the way, where do you folks think My Fair Lady could have been filmed, if not on sound stages? The back lot? On location? What would have been the point of traveling to England and spending gazillions to close down locations and take out all the modern things? To show a street corner? Did you want them to film on location at Ascot? That scene was supposed to be stylized.

I don't think anyone's suggesting that any of the movie should have been filmed on actual locations. But yes, it would have been smart if the Ascot scene had been filmed outdoors -- or, at least, if they could have made it SEEM like it was filmed outdoors through the use of better backdrops or matte paintings or whatever.

Can anyone think of a reasonable reason that the Ascot scene wasn't filmed outdoors?

I just watched a Warners movie Stallion Road (1947) which had a big high jumping competition with large crowd for audience. According to IMDB filming locations were done in Griffith Park in Los Angeles and Hidden Valley in Thousand Oaks. Not sure which could have been used for the competition scenes.

R5134 - answer is $. Costs much more to do location shooting and then you have to re-do all the dialogue because of the noise.

Don’t any of you realize the Ascot scene was deliberately stylized?

[quote]Don’t any of you realize the Ascot scene was deliberately stylized?

We realize that, but it was stylized in a sloppy way in that the backdrops look so obviously fake. It's fine in the shots where the backdrops are not evident.

R517 That makes no sense.

Please join me in F&F-ing R510.

[quote]I still maintain “My Fair Clit” is uproariously funny.

Thanks for letting us know that you're still an idiot, but it really wasn't necessary.

What makes no sense, R518? In the shots of the Ascot scenes where what should be the sky and the horizon are visible, it's very clearly a backdrop rather than having been shot outdoors. What part of that don't you understand?

[quote] Can anyone think of a reasonable reason that the Ascot scene wasn't filmed outdoors?

Yes. The film's production design is not meant to be realistic. It's instead supposed to suggest a certain theatrical feeling, stage bound-soundstage bound. The night time lighting in the Covent Garden opening doesn't look natural, not to mention the fact that there are frozen figures that suddenly begin to move like in a play. Likewise the street where Higgins lives and where he sings IGATHF. The Ascot scene stays within these parameters, as it should.

I understand your perspective, R522, but I still think the Ascot scene looks obviously fake in a way that the none of the other scenes do -- and I don't agree that the nighttime lighting in the opening scenes at Covent Garden doesn't look natural.

R523 In the stage musical, that scene looks more artificial than the rest of the show and the film deliberately restages that. I think it was the correct choice. A sunny outdoor scene would have looked completely out of sync with the rest of the movie.

[quote]A sunny outdoor scene would have looked completely out of sync with the rest of the movie.

That's arguable, but it wouldn't have looked as ridiculous as a supposed outdoor scene with very obvious canvas backdrops where the sky should be

I think you may be looking at it from a 2023 perspective. Backdrops were de rigueur in 1964 and they were greatly disguised in projection. Today, when you watch a digital print of those movies, all the "mistakes" jump at you because they look clearer than they were intended to be.

Perhaps we can all agree that the Ascot scene might have been successfully shot on a soundstage had the production design, cinematography and lighting been more artful. What we get just looks cheap and tacky and lifeless.

There are scores of scenes and numbers of MGM musicals filmed on soundstages that never felt as petrified as the Ascot of MFL. Any of the outdoor scenes in The Wizard of Oz burst with more life and energy yet are still true to a stylized stagey aesthetic.

Good point, R526, but it's the color of the backdrops in the Ascot scene that makes the whole thing look so very fake.

[quote]There are scores of scenes and numbers of MGM musicals filmed on soundstages that never felt as petrified as the Ascot of MFL. Any of the outdoor scenes in The Wizard of Oz burst with more life and energy yet are still true to a stylized stagey aesthetic.

Yes, very true.

The Ascot set not only looks cheap and artificial, there's no sense of a large crowd of people.

Seriously, the film feels very stagey, and IMHO would have been more effective if it'd either been less stylized, or more.

I'm another one who finds MY FAIR LADY's deliberate staginess made for a stodgy, colorless film. Though GIGI was a mostly shot on a soundstage , the outdoor scenes give it a bright lift missing in MY FAIR LADY. Even without its bright animated sequences, the soundstage-shot MARY POPPINS is a sprightlier film.

Of course deliberately artificial staging can undo even a musical shot outdoors - see the color filters of SOUTH PACIFIC.

R521, I think R524 stated it perfectly. Sorry, but it’s you who don’t understand.

It’s funny, I see this a lot - audiences back then, though probably way less educated than today’s viewers, were more sophisticated.

This was a big movie, if they wanted to film at a race track, they could have. They presented the scene as artificial and theatrical - it’s introduced by a song, the whole thing is a mood. If you saw it on the stage, you would notice they did the same thing onstage - it was the most stylized scene in the show. This is why we never see the race. You’e supposed to accept and enjoy what they’re trying to do - if you manage get what they’re trying to do.

R530, Well, Gigi was shot in Maxim’s - the actual restaurant - and some other locations that were still around, in Paris.

[quote] There are scores of scenes and numbers of MGM musicals filmed on soundstages that never felt as petrified as the Ascot of MFL

IT’S SUPPOSED TO FEEL PETRIFIED. That’s what’s being parodied. The British upper crust at the time, stiff and formal in a very exaggerated way.

Just for the hell of it: I think the first Hollywood musical with extensive Technicolor outdoor scenes was Deanna Durbin's CAN'T HELP SINGING (1944; her only color film ) with a minor but charming Kern-Harbug score There's some clever matte work at the end of this number with newly blonde Deanna walking and singing amongst the pines.

Location shooting:

Johnson Canyon, Cascade Falls, Duck Creek, Strawberry Point, Navajo Lake (Utah), and Cedar Breaks in Utah.  Big Bear Lake, Big Bear Valley, San Bernardino National Forest, California, USA Lake Arrowhead, San Bernardino National Forest, California, USA

[quote]This was a big movie, if they wanted to film at a race track, they could have. They presented the scene as artificial and theatrical - it’s introduced by a song, the whole thing is a mood.

I understand all of that, and I don't object to the fact that the number is stylized -- that is, indeed, the whole point of the number. I object to the fact that the very odd color of the backdrops makes the scene look so very, very weird. If everything about the Ascot scene were the same except that the backdrop had been painted to look more like an actual sky, I would have no problem with it.

Snappy Harburg lyrics brighten this huge lilting outdoor number.

Universal must have spent a fortune dragging the huge Technicolor cameras all over the west coast .

I find the Ascot a highlight of the movie. Especially going from the darkness of Eliza's room to the sudden brilliant black and white still images of the people frozen in place(based on the photos of the actual black Ascot.) Then when the main music starts the entire soundstage is filmed in one shot as the performers start swanning about with the camera lowering until it pulls in.

Also when we see first see Eliza in her Ascot dress looking so amazing walking within the latticework with Pickering as he squeezes her hand with her smiling nervously.

Then she goes off like a shooting star recounting her aunt dying of influenza(possibly) where Hiller doesn't even come close.

Too bad none of you see supreme cinematic craftmanship when it stares you right in the face.

R537, I admire all that about the scene, as well. I only object to the fucking backdrops :-)

Here's an interesting story about the stylization of the scene. Years ago, in a Facebook group devoted to Hollywood musicals, someone posted about the huge "mistake" in the Ascot scene, where the crowd is staring straight ahead during the race, rather than following the horses with their eyes. Although it was difficult for me to refrain from calling this person a complete idiot, I controlled myself and patiently and politely explained that the "Ascot Gavotte" is a satire on upper-class Brits being very rigid and showing no emotion, so that staging was done specifically to show how unexcited and uninterested they were in the race. And then the idiot responded by attacking ME for pointing out his stupidity, but he stuck to his guns that this was a terrible mistake in that scene made by the the director and the cinematographer. Incredible, but true.

Of course the use of the word ass or arse was still unusual in a 1964 movie musical. It was pretty unusual. In a 50s musical show. I guess someone already said this but “bloody”- the word Eliza uses in Pygmalion - had no meaning to American audiences - they didn’t consider it offensive and it didn’t land like ass to show that Eliza had learned to speak well but not to use the right words. Which was a funny premise Shaw thought up.

R537 what do you think would have worked as backdrops rather than the frosted panel? You needed something as stylized.

An orange filter would have helped.

And shots of hot jockeys in tight leggings.

What would have worked as a backdrop: Debbie Reynolds performing Belly Up To The Bar, Boys. Debbie DID get an Oscar nomination in 1964, for The Unsinkable Molly Brown.

Moving it outdoors to give the Ascot a little fresh air and natural light wouldn't necessarily have robbed the scene and dance of the desired staginess, as some posters here suggest was actually desired. The ladies' black & white costumes and overdone hairstyles alone give the scene an artificiality not really seen in the rest of the film.

Exactly, R543.

A good homage.

You need a star I had no voice You had no choice Dub me

Though I'm all throat My neck's too thin Call Marni in Dub me

Here we are together in the middle of a song If I sang out I'd get the gong Anyone whose ever heard me sing will tell you that My talent's wearing a hat

I'll play the scene You'll sing the song I'll mouth along Dub me

Never do I ever want to sing another song There isn't one I won't sing wrong Deborah Kerr and Cyd Charisse and Natalie and me We can lip-sync right on key

That’s very clever, r546. Did you write it?

(Just You Wait is the one non-dubbed song, except for the lyrical interlude.)

It's from Forbidden Hollywood.