"Here's Why the LGB is Different From the TQ+" (Amir Odom)

Do we really need to have this explained to us?

R1 Many people do, sadly.

But still all sexual minorities. Today's tomboy is tomorrow's lesbian is a future transman married to a bi non-binary. The lines are smudgy.

R3, the only thing we have in common with that person is same sex attraction. We have nothing in common with the Gen Z girls who were molested by their fathers and now want to reject their sex and call themselves ‘gay men’. I do not feel stronger with them—I reject their aggressive ignorance and feelings of entitlement. They will desist in their trans identities in 5-10 years anyway.

I already had R2 R3 R4 blocked, so you can tell where this thread started, where it is, and where it will end.

It’ll end with you staying ignorant, R5, I guess. Oh well.

I also have R6 blocked, but no, I'm no ignorant. I simply don't need anti-trans propaganda shoved under my nose eighteen times a day on Datalounge.

It's certainly a troll thread R5.

Amir who?

I checked the guy's twitter and he brags about having met Trump and he keeps retweeting people who call us "groomers", heterosexual people mostly.

This is the kind of moron the trolls are aligning themselves with.

OP: you are a troll and I'm not watching some dumb YT video. Our community is under attack from the same old enemies: conservative Republicans and right-wing Christians. None of this is new. The push to "drop the T" and just be "LGB" is an obvious divide and conquer strategy meant to weaken us and deflect from what actually happening: our rights being dismantled and our identities weaponized, rendering us second class citizens yet again.

Kindly fuck off since you're probably not even gay and very obviously a stupid fucking troll.

"Folks, what do you think of this lazy trolling attempt. I'm just going to post another link to a YT video and be that stereotypical conservative troll who thinks that constitutes 'doing research.' Nothing I say is even original, this is literally the 500th 'drop the T from LGB' thread in 24 hours. I'll end with a joke about the thread becoming a shitshow, even though I am metaphorically covered in shit while dancing around like a complete fucking idiot."

OP gave himself 6 w&w.

I just don't agree with self-ID. And women have to deal with so much abuse and trauma from men in their lives. Yet get gaslit and insulted for being cautious of biological males who haven't had genital surgery and dress up as women and enter women's spaces. It's trivializing the reality that women are marginalized by their sex since they're infants. And many trans women have the same entitlement and "manipulating" attitude as men because they were raised with that male privilege and sense of ego.

Turns out I didn't have this lunatic's sockpuppet account blocked, so the thread isn't a complete loss.

And also trans women complaining about being mocked for their looks and being sexualized, trivialized and abused by men don't seem to understand that's because they are choosing to live as women and women deal with that crap since they have come out of the womb as babies. They make into "transphobia" but it's more misogyny and femmephobia.

Insufferable frau R12 came here to victimize herself AGAIN.

She can't even stand being in a PUBLIC washroom with someone with different chromosomes. And still has the nerve to talk about entitlement, I wish she'd have to deal with the transphobia transgender people suffer, for about a week, and she'd stop cunting and would mature real fast.

[quote]How long will it take for this thread to turn into a shitshow?

Until r9.

Oh, dear God in heaven. [italic]Again[/italic] with the sockpuppets?

One wonders why you’re reading the thread at all, R7

If you live in an urban gay center you see this insanity spreading. The extremism and hate is equivalent to and just the flip side of the coin to the MAGAs. It’s taking ahold outside those areas too. Yts screeching about how evil yts are, pocs screaming about how their every failure is yts fault, treating ally yts like shit for fun. Lots of people who seem to think more raci$m will fix racism, who want a scapegoat for why they’re talentless, and they don’t want equality they just want to perpetuate the same abuses of power they’re complaining about. Destroying the hierarchy of power is the only equitable solution for everyone, but it’s a bunch of billionaires funding all this extremism trying to distract everyone, as they pay $17 dollars for a quart of milk and a carton of eggs.

R19 It's all by design. The government actually destroyed most of the progressive racial justice, women's rights, gay liberation and working class movements through infiltration and assassinations. All that's left is corporate run organizations that are all funded by wealthy powerful white men like the NAACP, GLAAD and BLM who pretend to be the side of the marginalized but gladly support this lunacy. Most black people did not support #DefundThePolice, it was liberal white people from rich suburbs and paid black agents promoting that. Just like there are many trans people actually are aware of the difference in biology and are trying to fight against the rush to transition children but are silenced by the TRAs. Many women activists are critical of sex work due to the exploitation factor but are silenced by extremists who want sex work normalized.

Your tinfoil hat is askew, r20.

People doubting me?

BLM was created by grifters. Black activists have actually called them out for taking away attention from actual grassroots movements in local and poor communities and pushing gender ideology over systemic racism.

I think they are related in that they are all spectrums which people land in at different spots. Biology is a little tighter of course, most people being XX and XY - but there are variations. Gender is a social construct, completely made up, and Sexuality I believe, at least the way we define it, is as well. All people practice gender affirming care depending on where you land on the spectrum, we all try to change the outside to match what we feel. How many masculine women and feminine men do we all know both gay and straight? Why do some women get their hair done, wear dresses, make up and get manicures - all gender affirming care, but others are fine with flannel shirts and jeans? It's just when people land in this spectrums and they don't align - biological sex, gender and sexuality don't line up - that's when people have a problem. Honestly, I don't know why anyone would have a problem - it's no ones business or concern - WTF do I care if the big football jock wants to wear a tennis skirt? That being said, since trans people aren't necessarily gay, lesbian or bi - I agree that they aren't the same thing and that there have been some very militant and angry people hogging the podium, and it's harming us all. I hope that makes some sense.

Look at all the wealthy corporations backing these organizations. You think they are trying to uplift the poor? Or trying to sow discord and chaos and keep people slaves to consumerism and drugs.

[quote] Most black people did not support #DefundThePolice, it was liberal white people from rich suburbs and paid black agents promoting that.

Lol, it's the Republicans who won't fund the police, r20.

TQ+ are protective padding for LGB.

R24 is dilating, as we race towards our 1984/Fifth Element mashup future.

The sock puppets are talking to each other.

R23 are you paid to post that propaganda here? It's not even relevant to the thread.

LGBTQ. I support that. I support all of us. You want to imagine we're so different from Trans but that's bullshit and semantics for your dumb propaganda war. The attacks against Trans are the same old attacks as the ones you put out against Gays, Lesbians, Bisexuals and anyone else who isn't you. Do you think that we can't see that? We remember you cunts and we know the kind of cynical, hateful purveyors of bile that you are. It's right in front of our faces and we've all seen your ridiculous bigoted attacks before.

We've all seen them. We see you. Fuck you if you think we're a bunch of stupid sheep to be herded into hating Trans for your cheap political benefit. Seriously, fuck off cunts.

We have the same enemies, republicans and conservatives. It's always been this way. The attempts to divide us are obvious.

"Oh is this a tranny bashing thread? My bad. I thought we were trashing the n*****s in this one."

R12 And the only real women are trans women because actual women are slurred as cunts, bitches, karens, sluts, terfs and now people assigned or cis gender.

R34, why are you still here?

R24: "Why do some women get their hair done, wear dresses, make up and get manicures - all gender affirming care, but others are fine with flannel shirts and jeans"

We see you, R24. We see you attempting to put teen girls getting double mastectomies under the same "gender affirming" umbrella as harmless salon services, but you're not fooling anyone. Everyone feels refreshed after getting a haircut, but no sane person walks out of the salon swooning about how "gender affirming" it was. NO. SANE. PERSON.

Also: Hair grows back. Breasts? Not so much.

R11 as did R5

We see you being a right wing nut job R36. Buhbye.

You guys are fucking ridiculous. You think that all the hate and anger is projected JUST at the TQ+? That if it was just us nice safe LGB people things would be fine? You are idiots if you believe that. Florida and 20 other states are not developing or have DON'T SAY JUST TQ+, it's don't say GAY. Reversing gay marriage is still on the GOP agenda. They only successful when they have us fighting with each other. Stop it. Support every letter, even if you don't understand it.

[quote] TQ+ are protective padding for LGB.

You got that backwards R27, we are the fall guys for TQ+ excesses.

[quote]Biology is a little tighter of course, most people being XX and XY - but there are variations.

That has nothing to do with trans people. Trans-identified people are no more likely to have DSDs than anyone else in the general population.

[quote]Support every letter, even if you don't understand it.

We understand it perfect well, which is why we don’t support it.

Pretending to agree with / believe in gender ideology is not going to “save” us gay people from anything, so why pretend? I don’t agree with gender ideology, and I would like to see legislation against its excesses. How many times do you need to be told that this threat of yours is useless?

More trolling from the anti-trans cunts like OP and her shitty little nasty troll friends. We need primetime. And lots of it.

I hate these motherfucking TERF cunts. They don't belong on the Datalounge nor do they belong on ANY gay site.

No wonder all the Lezzie sites banned these fucking asshole political propagandists.

MURIEL! Give us some motherfucking Primetime!

R44 You seem unstable - nothing personal

[quote]You think that all the hate and anger is projected JUST at the TQ+?

No. Of course not. But it is hard to imagine there would be 450+ anti-gay bills in their respective state hoppers had not the TQs raved and raged about "gender affirming care" for the past five or seven years.

I'm definitely trans critical - I do not now, nor have I ever believed, that "transwomen are women". They just aren't. I wish they could be! I do. But science is science. All of my issues with trans involved that dumb lie that we all bought, hook, line, sinker. So stupid of us.

That said. now is not the time to squabble.

Gays are now being attacked, once again, by the right. Fuck the Right and fuck their anti gay laws.

I can (begrudgingly) handle annoying trans, but I can't handle right wing evil nonsense.

LIES. As usual. You TERF asshole political propagandists are always lying. Fucking morons.

R47 may be cunty but at least he's a pragmatist. We need more like him in the GLBTQ community, even if they're wrong/misguided/whatever about Trans.

This is no time to indulge in splitting our own vote. Let the fucking cunt right-wingers do that. We stick together.

Homosexuality and transgenderism are not the same thing. Laws curtailing trans demands, and anti-gay laws, are not the same thing.

The GOP is getting it right on trans issues, I’m sorry to say.

[quote]I can (begrudgingly) handle annoying trans

Where are you encountering them, r47?

Oh, shut the fuck up, you divisive and casually hateful troll.

R48, I definitely am not wrong about pushing back against transwomen are women. They aren't. No amount of wishing, stomping, and surgery will make that happen. Ever.

What I'd love is for us to say "transwomen are transwomen". And should be treated with respect, equal rights, etc.

That way we don't to have jump through insane intellectual hoops trying to explain what a women is (when we all know the answer) or trying to explain Lia Thomas or men, who suddenly become trans, in women's prisons. We are so clearly in the wrong in these instances. And it makes it so easy for the Right to get the upper hand. Which just infuriates me.

Frankly, we've made the path to trans actual equality so much more difficult by adhering to and propogating an obvious lie. So. Stupid.

But, yes, we have bigger fish to fry right now for sure: Stopping DeSantis and Trump.

We need to start f&fing the anti-trans trolls on site. They're ruining Datalounge.

Why is R44 greyed out?

You're getting all hot and bothered about...semantics, r52. It will sort itself out. Our society and language will adapt and be fine.

F&F this thread.

Lots of little gays think they’d like to be girls because it would solve their problems. Trans tells those gays to go ahead and do it before they even hit puberty. Trans is Gay Erasure.

F&F for the insidious anti-trans trolls. We need to go on primetime again for a month or two. Or for always.

You are wrong R47, transwomen are women, saying that they are not because of "science" is no different than homophobics telling us that there's no such thing as a gay couple or that two men cannot constitute a couple or a family because of "science".

I've read that argument many times before, but I never bought it because I HATE BIOLOGICAL DETERMINISM.

And every gay dude (every lgbttqia person actually) should too.

-----------

Homophobic cunt R57, PLEASE stop thinking you know anything about gay men.

Transgenders were a lot less common than gay men in the 1970s, decades later the situation remains the same.

And no, trans people are not confused gay men, I am sorry if you feel confused about yourself and your own gender identity like lots of political lesbians and terfs, but don't project that shit onto us gay guys.

Trans women aren't concerned about having sex with men or finding a husband, they are concerned about being a woman 24/7; whether they'll have a man or not that's secondary. So much so some of them are lesbians, others are bisexuals....

STOP USING THIS GAY WEBSITE TO PROMOTE YOUR RIGHTWING MISCONCEPTIONS AND IDEALS.

The world has completely gone insane now that it has rejected basic biology.

Hur durrrr 'biology', look at me I'm a wise "feminist".

There's a lot more about life than just biology.

People cannot be reduced yo their biology, that's crucial to the promotion of human rights.

And don't forget that early in the past century people tried to use "biology" to promote very racist and Nazi-like ideas.

[quote]There's a lot more about life than just biology.

Er, no there isn't. At least if you aren't starting with biology there's not any life at all!

^^^^^

There is hun, so much so that your brain is reading what I just typed in English, and that's not biological, because you were not born speaking English, that's circumstantial and the English language was invented by human creativity, not human biology, just like every other language.

And I used a cell phone to type this, a Cell phone that was charged with electricity many hours ago, and both electricity and cell phones are not products of biology, they were invented by human intelligence.

Yes, biology is crucial to humans and all other living creatures, but we live in society where not everything revolves around biology, gladly, otherwise rape, murder and robberies wouldn't be crimes and there would be no things such as jails and police stations.

Once you’ve developed the mental illness required to take part in this psychotic ideology you’re too far gone to reason with anymore.

The problem with the Trans community is not the .1% of people who have legitimate gender dysphoria, it’s the asexual ugly girls and straight pervert guys who are abusing the community, and also the LGB organizations that switched gears to go full Trans 24/7 to raise money after gay marriage passed and hit their bottom line in a negative way.

R63 doesn't grasp the concept that the brain is a biological organ. D'oh.

Since OP is greyed.

Chromosomal configuration is a biological fact. That chromosomal configuration determines gender, and there are three genders: male, female, and intersex. The qualities and behavior attributed to "masculinity" and "femininity", however, are definitely defined according to so-called societal "norms." As in everything else, these "norms" statistically fall on a bell curve with a wide range of behaviors attributed to the genders, with a large degreeof overlap between the genders. So, do feminine males and/or masculine females fall within the bell curve of "normality"? The answer would be YES. Do men have periods, give birth, and breast feed? NO. These abilities are biologically determined by the - reality of chromosomal configuration. Can a biological female impregnate someone, or have the muscle mass to be expected to compete with a biological male in all types of sports? NO. Chromosomal configuration dictates these abilities.

A good portion of all these new anti-gay bills cooking in the states would not be there if LGB was not tied to TQ+. It's the pronouns and the drag queen story times and puberty blockers and the discussions of "non-binary genders" in schools that are getting everyone riled up. Gay men and lesbians would be fine if Queer, Inc. hadn't decided to go after trans donation money by putting everything under one huge and constantly changing alphabet soup.

The trans colors on the traditional pride flag? Yep, that's a wedge splitting the rainbow apart.

"That chromosomal configuration determines gender, and there are three genders: male, female, and intersex."

All intersex conditions are either male specific or female specific, therefore every intersex person is either male or female, despite chromosomal variations. Apparently the sexual dimorphism of humans (and indeed all mammals) is not glamorous or cool enough for some folx today, but its existence is not dependent on their beliefs.

To add to the above:

Male and female are sex classes, not genders, and we need to do away with the word ‘gender’ altogether. It is useless and is doing far more harm than good. It’s also nonsensical outside English-speaking cultures.

Trans women are women. Trans men are men. The whole underlying rage is focused on the "in hiding" aspect. That men are somehow going through years of hormone therapy and treatment so they can just watch a woman pee or use the women's dressing room. Or that a college kid is doing it to come first in women's swimming because he sucks at men's swimming. It's all bullshit. It's scare tactics. None of these people gave a shit about women' sports until a trans woman tried to do it. I mean the worst story anyone can talk about is 'I came in second and has to share it with a trans swimmer." Trans people are PEOPLE. Treat them with kindness and human decency. They way we want to be treated. They way everyone should be treated.

R73 the problem is NOT legitimate Trans people, it’s all the grifters and psychopaths latching onto the movement, which now outnumber real Trans.

[quote]None of these people gave a shit about women' sports until a trans woman tried to do it.

There wasn't anything to give a shit about. Those who had been born men participated in, wait for it...men's sports.

Much like race, this is another issue that will never be resolved.

"None of these people gave a shit about women' sports until a trans woman tried to do it."

Martina Navratilova, Chris Evert, Sharron Davies, Mara Yamauchi, and Daley Thompson didn't give a shit about women's sports five or ten years ago? Pretty sure they did.

R73 have some more Kool-Aid.

Sex "Classes" and "gender" is having six of one, and half-a-dozen of the other. It's all semantics. While we all have behaviors that can be perceived as masculine and feminine, the "se xclass" and /or gender are dictated by biology.

Oh R73 bless your heart

R73 is just like all the other low-IQ Yasss Kweens running around who just spout off ideological bullshit and they don’t even know what it means.

Stop promoting "common sense" R69, and do some philosophical thinking.

First, humans are not just a bunch of a chromosomes put together.

Secondly, the concepts of men/women as we understand them are NOT purely biological.

So shove your biological determinism where the sun don't shine.

AND THIS IS A FUCKING TROLL THREAD, THE GAY MAN IN THE VIDEO IS A TRUMPER FULL OF INTERNALIZED HOMOPHOBIA.

WE PROGRESSIVE GAYS DON'T NEED TO WASTE OUR TIME LISTENING TO THESE ASSHOLES, WHO FEEL GUILTY OF THEIR HOMOSEXUALITY.