Jane Fonda at Cannes 2023

[quote]Alain Delon, her co-star in the 1964 French film Joy House, on the other hand, she said liked to kiss. She noted how gorgeous he was at that time, but “not so much now. He’s had a rough life. But then he was the most beautiful human being.”

[quote]Regarding French filmmaker Jean-Luc Godard, who directed her in 1972’s Tout Va Bien, she said, “He was a great filmmaker. I take my hat off. A great filmmaker. But as a man? I’m sorry. No, no.”

So cunty, I love it.

She was 100% correct about the Vietnam War.

Good grief, she's an old blue haired woman now. Around these parts (Atlanta) we call 'em "Buckhead blue hairs".

Jane is 85 and has no more fucks to give.

"She was 100% correct about the Vietnam War."

Even 50 years later, you'll never, ever get a hawk to admit she was right.

Jane Fonda was the real patriot here, not the flag waving faux "patriots" who despise her so much, then and now.

She’s like a parody of a 2023 progressive.

R6 Would any "progressive" get your approval? Nah, right?

A troll is a troll...

I'd like to hear from Streisand regarding Redford's view on kissing.

Alain Delon was the most gorgeous man alive.

Love her!

Wish I could take her out for drinks and hear what she can't say in public.

R8 Too beautiful - there is no "entry" into his face, and therefore no entry into his soul....

The woman goes out in public with purple hair.

R11 As she should. "Goes out in public" - she's 85, how do you go out in public? Don't share, actually.

She should go out in public with purple hair?

My mother adores this woman. So do I.

Did she comment on niece Bridget’s obesity?

[quote]More charitably, she said Redford possesses a good sense of humor, if not punctuality. “The last movie I made with him was six years ago [Our Souls at Night]. What was I, about 80 years old or something like that. And I finally knew I had grown up. When he would come on the set three hours late in a bad mood, I knew it wasn’t my fault.” Nonetheless, she said, “We always had a good time.”

"What was I, about 80 years old or something like that."

That just...I don't know.

I was never a fan until I watch the HBO documentary on her. She’s fantastic. Completely authentic and takes responsibility for her mistakes. And, best of all, doesn’t take herself too seriously and genuinely generous/kind to the men in her life who fucked her over. Also honest tgat she wasn’t a good mother to her daughter, which took a lot of guts.

[quote]Also honest tgat she wasn’t a good mother to her daughter, which took a lot of guts.

Well, r17, it wasn't like she had a great role model.

R16 I’ve read so many accounts about what a smug, vain asshole Redford is. And worse—stole ideas and didn’t credit writers. But showing up on set 3 hours late…gotta say I would have punched him in the face. What an entitled jerk to keep dozens of people waiting for him. Can’t wait to read what Barbra thought of him in her autobio.

[quote]Fonda had complimentary words for Lee Marvin, her co-star in 1965 Western-comedy Cat Ballou, but referenced what she said was his hard drinking. “I loved making the movie. And Lee Marvin was fabulous,” she recalled. “He was very funny. He was always drunk. We stayed at the same motel, and they had to carry him up the stairs.”

I don't know if it's true, but IMDB says that, "According to Richard Burton in a 1977 interview, he bumped into Lee Marvin at a party, and the host said, 'Of course, you two know each other.' Both were very heavy drinkers, and neither had any memory of working together [in 'The Klansman' a few years earlier]."

While I don't necessarily agree with some of her opinions, I enjoy the fact that at her age, she's going back to being "Hanoi Jane" and the bane of rightwing nutbags.

[quote]Good grief, she's an old blue haired woman now.

That’s purple!

She really and truly is out of fucks.

She was not 100% correct about her version of protesting during the Viet Nam war and she's the first to admit it. She deeply regrets naively participating (being a tool) in the anti-West propaganda used by the Chinese-supported communists. While US/corporate involvement in that losing war was morally wrong and they did atrocious things, but supporting the brutal Viet Cong against the other side was a vicious slap in the face to US soldiers, many of whom were drafted against their will because they didn't have the means to dodge it -- my two older brothers included. Only one of them returned and he was damaged goods until he died. My family was very much against that war, but certainly did not support the other side. I live near one of the largest Vietnamese communities outside of Viet Nam. They escaped death.

Meanwhile, I adore Jane Fonda as an actress, comedienne, and human, and think that she's evolved as a person from those days.

R7, no, probably not, but I respect Ilhan Omar.

For the wisdom of Fonda, she wants to round up, arrest and jail unnamed men for climate change, and then drops these pearls:

“It is a tragedy that we have to absolutely stop. We have to arrest and jail those men — they’re all men – [responsible for the crisis].”

Responding to an audience question she said, “It’s good for us all to realize, there would be no climate crisis if there was no racism. There would be no climate crisis if there was no patriarchy. A mindset that sees things in a hierarchical way. White men are the things that matter and then everything else [is] at the bottom.”

Look, Jane Fonda is a fine actress but a deep thinker she is not.

She always took her politics and philosophy from whatever man she was with at the time and this went on and on, well into her later years. She even took up Jesus for a while! The Big Daddy of them all.

She has caring and empathetic instincts as an actress and as a person. Her overbearing style of parenting has not worked out well for her son. Apparently she was not a good parent to her daughter either, which she admits. She's terribly insecure, always has been.

If she's finally progressed enough to even mildly rebuke Redford that's some progress indeed. She's always worshipped him and never would say a word against him for all these years. I hope Fonda's in a better place than she has been the 15-20 years. It's not easy becoming an old sex symbol.

[quote]It's not easy becoming an old sex symbol.

She shed that image. At this age, her reclaiming it on her terms is healthy for her ego.

Look she makes a valid point about the corporate and industry indifference to climate change and the connections to racism, etc. And the fact that these industries are run at their upper echelons by white men is true. Women and minorities have been figurehead tokens if they are present in the board room at all. They certainly don't set policy or have power.

Don't be fucking stupid, R27.

She is not an 85 year old sex symbol and she is not "reclaiming" that now for God's sake. She's someone who used to be a sex symbol, always relied on men for her identity and is (perhaps) coming out of that way of life now.

The fact remains, she's not that bright and never has been. That doesn't mean she's not a nice or well-meaning person. It means she's basically stupid and insecure. Nothing in her life has ever changed that. I hope she's stopped hooking up with men who control her and treat her like dirt.

She will never shed the Barbarella sexpot image. It dovetails with her emotional, loving personality in general but it's the kind of image that will never leave. Barbarella and her sexpot image will be mentioned in all of her obituaries as will all of her husbands.

If she'd turned down They Shoot Horses and Klute as she planned to, our Faye would have landed two more iconic roles

Sorry, r29, you lost me at:

[quote]Don't be fucking stupid

I stand by my post.

Look at Marge Green, Loren Boobert, the late Herman Cain, and any number of women and/or people of color who are active MAGAts these days.

How is what they would choose in the boardroom any fucking different than their white male counterparts in the Fascist Party of America? Seriously. Women and people of color are not the panacea you pretend or imagine.

That's because you're fucking stupid, R31.

I'll engage just a bit more, r33, your puerile insults notwithstanding. After she did They Shoot Horses, what sex symbol roles did she do for the next 54 years of her career?

Jane's daughter Vanessa Vadim looks exactly like Roger Vadim and nothing like Jane. Mother Nature can be a huge cunt sometimes.

She's attractive, r35.

Jane didn't look like her mother either.

Yes, R34, of course you'll "engage a bit more" silly cunt.

It makes no difference what her films were after a certain period. She was already fixed in the public mind. Barbarella was done and dusted and along with her other sex kitten roles. That was her place in Hollywood.

I'm not going to go through all of her films, you're not interesting enough nor is the subject. However I'm sure that "Klute" probably Fonda's most famous sexpot hooker role was after "They Shoot Horses."

She was always the sexy leading lady, even when she was desperately trying to get away from Barbarella, Klute etc. I won't even go into her pelvic thrusting "fitness empire." That was very well-known (and completely run/controlled by men).

She's been around for a long time and she is who she is. Trying to pretend she was some big intellectual feminist rather than a completely insecure and male-dominated woman all of her life is just dumb. At least it's dumb to try it on with old people who remember her and her life all these years.

Vadim, Hayden and Turner all led her around by the nose, Vadim sent her out to pick up threesome partners in clubs, she was forbidden to return without one. Hayden spent all of her money and cheated on her like a rat. Turner was probably her best husband and he was batshit crazy and constantly demanding. She was perfectly happy to follow along with all of these losers. It's not a crime, it's just reality.

I don't know what your problem with reality is but it doesn't actually have any effect on reality.

Bless your heart, r38.

You know, you couldn’t possibly have lived as many lives in a lifetime as Jane Fonda has without being a smart passionate woman. She might not be a rocket scientist but how many people are? I don’t understand the anger. She went with a lot of men and had some Daddy issues - for heaven’s sake that doesn’t make her dumb.

Most men of Fonda's generation were controlling shits. It just was what it was.

Don't bother trying to have a civil conversation with Caustic Carole at r38, r40. They don't seem to be capable of it based on their other posts.

^INcapable

I don't giva fuck what color her hair is today or tomorrow. I fucking love her. Leave her alone godammit.

What dad Henry thought of his rebellious daughter.

[quote]That’s purple!

That's MAUVE!

She looks more like Lily Tomlin now. She was a beauty.

Oh. How sad. Maybe that explains her dissatisfaction with the world.

Hard to believe Parkinson dared to wear that wig in public and was only 40 when he did that Henry Fonda interview.

She is a goddess. Not to mention the best actress of her generation.

No superlatives, please, r50. Jane's position in film acting history is secure.

At one point she was like the American Bardot.

She was absolutely stunning as a young woman.

She publicly supported gays long before it was cool. Mad respect.

Hanoi Jane can’t stop talking

Tell me you're 98 and senile and not quite ever bright without telling me.

She should be in a psychology textbook so future generations can understand narcissism. Great in Klute.

"You know, you couldn’t possibly have lived as many lives in a lifetime as Jane Fonda has without being a smart passionate woman. "

There are thousands of brilliant women that will never be heard from because they didn't have a famous father. She's smart for her type, barely.

They were all glad to go along with it to gain fame and then turn when that becomes fashionable.

She always changed her identity to match her husband.

[quote] Even 50 years later, you'll never, ever get a hawk to admit she was right.

I’m not a hawk but she was wrong.

The PAVN generals eventually admitted, in the late 70s, that when the Easter Offensive failed in ‘72, they no longer had any cards left in their deck. They were all but beaten. But American lack of engagement in the war did for them what the NVA and VD couldn’t do — it got American troops out of Vietnam so the north could get a breather, regroup, and then topple the south Vietnamese government (in flagrant violation of the Paris Peace Accord, naturally).

Was the US wrong to fight a communist takeover in Vietnam? No, it wasn’t. Just look at what happened when the country fell to see that. Another one party state run by murderous gangsters. Even to this day, although the government has adopted de facto capitalism, they still exert a stranglehold and thought control over the populace.

We pledged to defend the south from a communist takeover, people believed us and took a huge risk by supporting us there, then we bailed when it got inconvenient and those people got crucified. The whole country did, really.

The REAL mistake the US made was right after WWII.

The Vietnamese fought alongside the USA against the Japanese occupiers. The OSS liaised with Vietnamese guerillas and the partnership was very effective at harassing and tying down the Japanese. After the war the Vietnamese made it clear they wanted independence from France. They even issued a Declaration of Independence that sounded very similar to the US document. After all, as the western nations kept saying, WWII was a struggle between freedom and tyranny.

They then asked for American diplomatic aid in establishing their independence from France. But the US felt it could not support this, despite the close relationship with the Vietnamese during the war. A strong France was needed to help establish a bulwark against communism in postwar Europe, and there were fears that rightwing elements in france might suffer a serious blow if Vietnam were lost to them, and France might come under the sway of its communists. So not only did the US not help the Vietnamese, it armed the French in their effort to restore control of Vietnam.

The Vietnamese felt betrayed, and turned to the communist nations of the East for help instead. The rest, as they say, is history.

^^^ VC, not VD, lol

She was right about Vietnam. She admitted she made a mistake with the gun and shit but later generations really don't care. Bitch was FIERCE.

Jesus fucking christ. Bitch was NOT fierce, r63. Bitch did and said whatever her husband or boyfriend at the time told Bitch to do and say. She had no original thoughts of her own.

90 minutes Jane uncut.

She's clearly wearing that wig as a tribute to the late, great Dame Edna

R45 great interview, Henry was quite eloquent.

I think I know but can someone explain the Vietnam controversy around Jane sitting on a tank?

Oh for fuck's sake, R67, GOOGLE THAT SHIT. Watch a youtube video. Don't be so fucking lazy.

She was just going on and on about LatinX and how she was getting educated on the subject, now she has purple hair. She’s gone full Gen Z.

[quote] but later generations really don't care.

Because it wasn’t their war. What she did was outrageously offensive and brain dead. That was a war where people were drafted and came home in body bags and here’s this Hollywood cunt sucking up to the enemy that killed them. Those soldiers who lived and came back were then spit on.

[quote] She publicly supported gays long before it was cool. Mad respect.

Simply because it was her yuppie comrade’ latest pet project. The woman was was born with a silver spoon in her mouth looking to be oppressed. She was Patty Hearst. A rich white girl pretending to be of the people. She wasn’t and couldn’t have been further removed. If the Right embraced gays, she would have been against them. There’s no there there when it comes to Jane. She’s basically Maude, a rich white liberal hypocrite. I remember the story about her being offered “The Exorcist” and her response was, “Why the fuck would I want to do this capitalist trash?” The woman lives in a goddamn mansion.

It was a disgrace that Peter Fonda's performance in Ulee's Gold lost to Jack Nicholson playing himself in As Good As It Gets at the Oscars. Has there ever been a more "meh" set of lead winning performances than Helen and Jack in 98?

If one measure of a life well-lived, or, bad-lived, if you will, is the amount of reaction your existence generates, well done, Ms. Fonda.

I agree with both some of the criticisms and ALL of the positive things posted here about Fonda.

I adore Fonda, that old, serious, silly, heart-in-the-right-place woman.

And, most of all, I love Fonda for what another Dler so accurately posted about her when some frau tried to knock her by comparing her, negatively, with all of her "privilege", to the masses of other women (paraphrase):

Fonda is not your neighbor next door. She's not the frau in the next cubicle, punching out of work to pick her kids up from school. She's not your Mom, sister, relatives.

She's Jane Fucking Fonda, Movie Star, Activist, Provocateur, Agitator.

Love, hate, or be apathetic to her, I can't think of another human who comes close to her unique stardom.

And, I'm shallow enough to glory in my favorite aspect of Fonda: when she decided to be "Make Way! Movie Star On Duty" and appeared at a Red Carpet, she brought it like no other.

Bow down, Bitches.

That purple hair actually looks quite good on her.

She’s doing octogenarian basic bitch dreck like 80 for Brady and Book Club 2.

All that fucking money and she couldn’t bankroll something good?

[quote]It makes no difference what her films were after a certain period. She was already fixed in the public mind. Barbarella was done and dusted and along with her other sex kitten roles. That was her place in Hollywood.

Her sexpot days were before my time, so that was never my impression of her. I think I first saw her in Coming Home, which was followed by a long string of not always great but most always interesting movies. I love her.

Did she not make a movie between 1990 and 2005 because Ted Turner didn't want her to?

Well young Roger wasn't classically handsome but he had a sexy French mug and he banged the world's hot chicks.

I met Fonda several times but all years ago. I was once at an event dinner table with Jane during her Ted Turner marriage - must have been the early 90s. She was wearing a HIDEOUS tacky bright yellow gown with straps and cutaways, and the vibe was very similar to Heidi Klum this year at Cannes - over the hill beauty thirstily showing too much skin. I had her pegged as someone who was slowly disappearing into permanent has been status. Happily, I was wrong. The last time I met Jane was in 2007 at Cannes at a cocktail hosted by Orhan Pamuk, and she was quite a different person. Evolved.

The public has been fortunate to have enjoyed the interesting and talented side of Jane Fonda - her performances. I don't mind her activism but I'm not sure it's very successful.

Fonda wasted decades of her life in slavish service to her men and medicating her insecurities with eating disorders and manic beauty pursuits such as the exercising. So we got the good side. Her private life seemed rough but I'm not sure, as I've never read a biography.

Frankly I think people like R26 are dumb. Wonderful takes from a great woman. Fights the good fights, role model in many ways for men and women. Funny. Not perfect and wholly admits it in great detail in every stage of life. I can listen to her all day.

I watched Redford do a chat show with Streisand about 10 years ago. Smug is an understatement. I don’t think his ego can handle women like Fonda and Streisand who were both honest enough to admit being “smitten” by his looks. Love what Fonda has to say about him- spot on. From his interview with Streisand, if you knew nothing about her, you would think she was one of his grateful to be in one of his films. costar.

R78, pick up her autobiography- it’s all there.

Good idea. Perhaps summer reading.

R36- She also looks like a lesbian.

R82 Yes, having short hair = looking like a lesbian. I guess all the male rockers and hippies with long hair look like gays

For all the claims about Jane Fonda's having been a great actress, I wonder -- how many *great* performances has she actually given?

For me, it's all about the back-to-back THEY SHOOT HORSES, DON'T THEY? and KLUTE -- both remarkable performances by her in wonderful movies, and neither equaled by her afterward. And yet the aura of her as one of the greats of her generation persists.

Apparently right, she was going to be punk'd on the set of mother-in-law by Ashton Kootcher. They had a hidden cam and audio set up in her dressing room with audio. But they couldn't use any of the footage in the end cause she was getting busy - flicking her bean!

Boring old grape. Nobody cares what you have to say anymore. So Alain Delon is not as good looking today at 87 years old as he was when he was 25-30? Wow. Neither are you. At least he aged naturally. You look like a really bad AI creation. Robert Redford had problems with women because he didn't like kissing you? Maybe his problem was you, not women. And why don't you speak out against the REAL cause of global warming? Now, go away.

R32, exceptions prove the rule. Citing singular examples of wing nuts like those three just because of their gender or race is what is stupid. As long as there has been a struggle there have always been individuals who collaborated with the opposition, with those in power. It's like saying that Sarah Pailin was the same as Hillary . Please. What a shallow assed argument. The people in charge, the people who control policy and fortunes and profits, are not women and minorities. And that is no accident. I think Jane is not stupid, nor insecure. But then I have not met her I do not know her. Maybe R29 does. But Jane is doing what smart activists do and framing things in ways that more people will understand. One of the things that always hurt some activists in the 60's and 70's and even beyond with their messaging, is that they were too intellectual, too philosophical. The Extreme Right Republican PArty weaponized low information voters. Reclaiming those people is difficult. But if you can get them to buy into the arguments for climate change or simplify the message so they can relate, you're finding common ground, you're being more effective. I've always like Fonda. I accept her for what she is. A child of Hollywood who probably didn't get the best education because it wasn't emphasized. Why bother. But she sought out an education through her activism, and through the men she associated with like Roger Vadim Tom Hayden and Ted Turner. When Fonda was growing up and coming of age women were highly sexualized and subservient to men. She rejected that and used the men in her life to learn from and grow. Feminists of her generation used what ever tools they had and whatever tools they found in the environment in which they functioned. You cannot judge her if you ignore the context.

American POW were killed because of Jane.

Jane was probably controlled opposition. Just like Gandhi was a servant to the British Empire as many Indians have come to realize. There is no opposition. The Powers That Be are 1000x smarter than we are and they always control both sides.

I can't imagine her working with JLo. That's like pairing a fine wine with chicken McNuggets.

Jane is such a fucking phony. I can’t believe her clit gets flicked on here to such insane extent - the first annoying faux woke celebrity who completely dumped all her so called leftist principles to be an exercise maven and arm candy to media scion Ted Turner. There is no “there” with her, she just picks up whatever the man of the moment (or if there’s no man - a zeitgeist) is favoring. She said as much, by the way, in her book and documentary. Which is fine, many women are like this, but they’re not deified to the extent she is for being a “truth teller” or “activist.”

I like her father and brother and niece much better as actors and public figures - I’ve talked about finding her mediocre at best and awful self conscious as an actress. For all the endless complaints she has towards her mean daddy, without him she would have disappeared like every other blonde sixties starlet.

Saying she was right about the Vietnam War is funny - many, many famous people spoke out against it one way or another. And disliking Godard? Please. This ninny wishes she had half his brains and talent and earnest commitment to political beliefs, even if he was a pretentious jackass.

R84 Exactly, and I’m not big on either those performances either. They were just lauded because she was so, so awful in all her prior films people were shocked she was COMPETENT. Almost every single actress is her age group is a lot better.

Jane was on Joy Reid or some show recently. She went on and on about how she’s been educated on “Latinx” and reading their literature - it was both cringe and hilarious. She’s so fucking delusional. She’s still looking to be arrested for her climate change protests so she has something to post on Instagram. She simply doesn’t live in the real world.

As far as the lavender hair goes - i think it looks great. At 85 her real hair is probably skimpy at bet and after cancer treatment shows a lot of scalp. If she wore a wig with her old reddish brown color people would say “who is she trying to kid?” Like Joan Collins or the late Gina L. She wore the white wig for a while and looked like a qtip. Every woman doesn’t look great with silver/grey hair. Love her or hate her she is still beautiful.

Jane is from the Gloria Steinem error of feminism. Gloria was working on behalf of the CIA for Christ’s sake. A bunch of posers.

Gloria’s now giving made up awards to Meghan Markle and acting like her best friend because she’s black.

No, R88 they were killed because of the Viet Cong. We were at war. Fonda and other protesters against the Vietnam war were disgusted by the suits in washington using the draft to send thousands of young men to die in Southeast Asia because of what amounted to a civil war. The conflict was ill conceived and really illegal. There was no figleaf of justification for it.

R68 You've posted in here angrily about 10 times. Why on earth does this topic infuriate you, I wonder. I hope your life improves.

Jane sat on Jon Voight’s face.

R93 We are causing the planet to change so much human life will be impossible. She is participating in protests to raise these issues, to change how we use up resources and change climate so much animals, plants, and we may die. But SHE doesn't live in the real world.

Her unique sang froid depressive quality (like her father) worked really well in Klute - one of the great performances of any actress of her generation. She was not a great actress, however, in the sense she was always Jane Fonda, not the character. She was a Presence, not an actress. Like Jeanne Moreau or Elizabeth Taylor perhaps.

Astonishing the "we were right in Vietnam!" drizzle above in this thread. Even the successful Vietnamese boat people immigrants and their progeny now in the US agree we fucked up pretty badly there... "defending democracy" against the communists, Jesus, look up Nguyen Van Thieu (and all the dictators before him) - right, we were protecting "freedom", right.

Fonda has had a light that limns the cultural, artistic, public and personal politics territories of the 20th century. A fucking force of nature... whose Presence will live long, long after those and that which criticize her.

R99 Who didn't?

R97 here, and I wanted to add that the powerful defense lobby, the "military industrial complex," guys worked very hard and spend $$$$ to demonize Jane Fonda who was very high profile, as well as others who opposed the war. The Defense lobby never forgets. Ask John Kerry.

R99 too bad she didn't suffocate him.

[quote]Astonishing the "we were right in Vietnam!" drizzle above in this thread.

She was right about Vietnam.

God, I love Jane.

R26 Look

I see she brought her Joker's smile to Cannes.

The OG nepo baby.

Hardly

Jane Fonda is one of very few people I believe would've made it without nepotism. She could've done it on her own even if she'd been a plumber's daughter from Iowa.

Liza Minnelli and Michael Douglas are two others who come to mind.

Jane doesn't bother me, the silly people who worship her and yet actually know nothing about her do bother me.

She's just an actress. I think she was competent and has even been good on several occasions. She's always better in films where she smokes. It's just a fact. She's a faux-activist for reasons already made clear in this thread in other posts.

She never killed anyone in Vietnam, who comes up with that ridiculous, reactionary fantasy shit? People still giving her a hard time about going there are dumb as dirt. After all the facts we have learned about that war in the decades since, they are seriously fucking dumb as dirt. Take your faux-patriotism and shove it up your ass. Real patriots tried to end that war. Faux-patriots pretend there was a "good" way to "win" it. Stupid fucks.

Fonda has plenty of flaws. It's not necessary to invent phantom soldiers, dead in Vietnam and pretend it was her fault. It's also not necessary to pretend that she's "brilliant" or "feminist" or "an activist" or any of that shit. She is whatever her man of the moment wanted/wants her to be and that's the way she's always been. It's not a crime, it's just reality.

[quote]Jane doesn't bother me, the silly people who worship her and yet actually know nothing about her do bother me.

You're only in this thread to be bothered, r111.

[quote]She's always better in films where she smokes. It's just a fact.

Sure, Jan.

She was the Madonna of her time.

*

Yes, R112, apparently you're still pressed.

Oh well, maybe you'll get over it tomorrow.

r115 - Kiddo, I ain't pressed. I just don't understand your need to make sure that we're hyper-aware of Jane's faults. You're seemingly taking it personally.

Jane went pretty mild on Redford. He sounds like a short primadonna with a bad wig and bad skin.

She calls Hepburn to congratulate her and Hepburn says: "You'll never catch me, now!" (As in, you'll never has as many Oscars as I have!) What a miserable bitch.

Her father? He sounds miserable and she should have given up on him long, long ago.

I do think she derived a lot of her identity from being married to each of her husbands - all the while preaching about women's liberation.

I don't like that she was secretly getting plastic surgery, liposuction, and having eating disorders. All the while, selling millions of dollars worth of exercise videos, telling women that all they had to do was exercise!

I wonder why Michael Douglas didn't like her. I'm not a huge fan of his, but I've only ever heard good things about him as a person. Even on Car Talk. A woman called in to talk about her car problem. Her job was craft services and she said MD was wonderful.

But he blamed his cancer on eating CZJ’s pussy. That’s not very gallant.

What does this mean? "Next up was a question about the films she’d made with Robert Redford: 1966’s The Chase, the 1967 screen adaption of Barefoot in the Park, 1979’s The Electric Horseman, and 2017’s Our Souls at Night. “Well, I was in love with him,” Fonda said. “I made four films with him, and for three, I was in love with him. Which meant I had a really good time.” The only problem, she explained, was that “he did not like to kiss. And he was always in a bad mood, and I always thought it was my fault.” When they made their last film together six years ago (“What was I, about 80 years old, or something like that?”), she said, “I knew I was finally grown up, because when he’d come on to the set three hours late in a bad mood, I knew it wasn’t my fault. We always had a good time. He’s a very good person … He just has an issue with women.” (She did not elaborate.)"

It means that, when she was younger (than 80 years old), she blamed herself for Redford's bad moods on set. Now that she's 80+, she's finally learned that Redford's bad moods on set are not her fault.

R120 Nice to know a person can learn a thin layer of self-awareness between the ages of 80 and 85.

Jane hasn't had a period since Tailhook, but she's still experiencing this kind of personal growth? Her parents must've really fucked her up.

When will she ever shut up?

Hepburn probably didn't like her because she knew Jane's performance in OGP stunk to high heaven.

R123- More likely it's because she was jealous of the fact that Jane was younger and prettier than her and was still a major box office draw and Hepburn's looks youth and heyday were all in the distant past.

No, R123, Hepburn had the typical "Queen Bee" reaction to Fonda. Jane was making a movie with Henry. Father and Daughter, and Hepburn wanted to make sure to remind Jane that she mattered more than Jane. From everything I read about her, Hepburn could be a cruel, competitive, emotionally stunted person.

As for attaching herself to men, she admits she was attracted to "alpha males" and thought she needed that to be validated because she didn't feel that on her own she would be taken seriously. But she took every single trope about herself, mainly that of being a sex object, or a Hollywood wild child, and turned it on its head. She was attracted to men she could learn from and and she used the opportunities she got to learn. She carved out her own identity and made her own contributions.

I watched a documentary about her on cable and was impressed. And if you read her Wiki page she has had one hell of a journey. Her mother committed suicide when she was 12. She was shipped off to boarding schools when her father remarried shortly after. She went to Vassar. She dropped out and went to Paris to study art. She studied with Lee Strasberg at the Actors Studio.

This is not a dumb woman and it's sad some people feel like they have to reduce her to some kind of joke and mock her. She has done so much in her life. She started her political activism in the b60's and she kept at it. It wasn't a phase for her or a photo op, or a fad. She also put her money where her mouth was. I'm a huge fan.

R123 Fonda's father was very ill. He finally won his first Oscar for OGP, and died soon after. So there was a lot going on during that project.

Watch Jane Fonda Hilariously Chuck Palme d'Or Certificate at Winner Justine Triet, Who Forgot to Take It (Video)

That video is not on the linked site

Hepburn was on set literally playing a role written for an elderly woman. Doubtful she was too concerned about being the youngest and prettiest. Anyway, Hepburn could be the biggest cunt who ever cunted, but it doesn't make Jane's performance in that movie any better.

[quote]I'd like to hear from Streisand regarding Redford's view on kissing.

She's discuss Redford in her autobiography. Streisand will repeat that quote she does over and over - "there's something going on behind his eyes." Which means, he's not as vapid as he appears. She'll NEVER trash The Way We Were or anyone connected to it.

In love scenes, Redford is either reserved or brutal. I doubt Streisand noticed because she was so caught up in her wig, make-up and which side she was photographed from. Redford most likely dismissed all that as silly female vanity, except when it applies to HIM.

Hepburn should have been grateful Fonda, as Producer, cast her

Exactly, r130. They were two movie stars doing "movie star acting". Katie and Hubbell just happened to look like and have the same personalities as Babs and Bob.

She really started the trend of actors giving constant voice to big political opinions when they weren't particularly intelligent. At least she's a good big-hearted liberal.

Didn’t Ted Turner cheat on Jane before the ink on the marriage license was even dry?

[quote] Fonda has had a light that limns the cultural, artistic, public and personal politics territories of the 20th century.

OMG hi Jane!!!/r100

[quote] Jane Fonda is one of very few people I believe would've made it without nepotism. She could've done it on her own even if she'd been a plumber's daughter from Iowa.

No, I really don't think so.

It would have taken years of her young life just to get her foot in the door - IF she had been able to even get her foot in the door.

[quote]I watched Redford do a chat show with Streisand about 10 years ago. Smug is an understatement.

It was on Oprah. The funny part was that he was concerned about The Way We Were because he didn't think a singer like Barbra Streisand would handle the role. He didn't say it like that, but you could see it meant that. Streisand was perplexed.

The problem with Redford is that he doesn't know how to kiss, like it's a chore.

Robert Redford is sounding like a dick. I never knew much about him before this thread.

Trust me, kissing was not a CHORE for Bob.

Phyllis weighs in at r139.

He's not a dick, R138, at least not entirely. He's a good person with some fairly glaring weaknesses as well as some fairly glaring strengths. He's no coward, he's just vain. Big pussy hound, not a big Bush supporter.

As a young actor in New York, his first child died of SIDS. His father was a cold prick. Beth Jarrett in "Ordinary People," although based on the novel, is meant to be a version of Redford's dad (and MTM's mother, apparently).

And MTM, herself (cold like Beth Jarrett).

I golfed with Bob's father: he was a lovely man with a 10 handicap.

Redford & Meryl didn't like Tom Cruise when they did that shit Lions For Lambs movie with him

Ted Turner? I ain't talking...

R123- Katherine Hepburn didn't like me

Jane Fonda

R141, Robert Redford is not a pussy hound in any way shape or form. He's constipated with women - onscreen and off. With a few exceptions, he's anti-social. I felt sorry for his first wife. Redford is the polar opposite of his movie pal, the gregarious Paul Newman.

Is Redford straight? I always assumed so, but “constipated with women” sounds…not straight.

[quote]Jane went pretty mild on Redford. He sounds like a short primadonna with a bad wig and bad skin.

I saw him in the Salt Lake City airport on two occasions in the 2000s. I couldn't believe what he looked like in person. Short, very skinny, skin like leather and very wrinkly. I don't know how old he was at the time, but he looked old AF. He looked nothing like you see on film or in photos.

[quote]I wonder why Michael Douglas didn't like her. I'm not a huge fan of his, but I've only ever heard good things about him as a person. Even on Car Talk. A woman called in to talk about her car problem. Her job was craft services and she said MD was wonderful.

A friend of mine grew up in Santa Barbara in the 80s/90s. Michael Douglas had a house there and was a familiar sight around town. My friend said he was a very nice guy, down to earth and unassuming. Everybody liked him.

[quote] Redford is the polar opposite of his movie pal, the gregarious Paul Newman.

I've never heard about Paul Newman being gregarious.

Read Newman's posthumous memoir that was recently published. He loved to drink, party, and play practical jokes, and he loved working as a salesman before he became an actor. As he aged and cut back on his drinking he mellowed, as many do.

R148, I thought that too long ago. But the only reason Redford's solitary-man-no-women stuff stands out is because he was a famous glamour boy. There are limitless straight guys out there with no real social skills.

R151, you obviously don't know squat about Paul Newman. See R152 for a little of it.

Oh, Jane. Michael Douglas didn't like you . . . Robert Redford didn't like you . . . Katharine Hepburn didn't like you. A truly "wide-ranging conversation." Yawn.

Jane, you got ON GOLDEN POND made just to make your father like you. Did it work? Do you and Barbra Streisand ever compare notes on the subject of making movies to satisfy your own neediness and insecurities?

^ Let's do anything to get the name BARBRA STREISAND into this thread more!

Redford was a HUGE pussyhound back in the day, huge. Vag vag vag - lots and lots of vag.

Ask anyone who was around in Hollywood back in the day. I can't vouch for his "relationships" with women and their "constipation" but as for fucking boatloads of actresses - he was all about it. He kept his wife Lola back in Utah with the kids and partied his ass off in LA. He was quite a drinker back then, I'm told he's calmed that shit down and calmed way down on the pussyhoundogging too.

I'm pretty sure that he did fuck BARBRA STREISAND back in the day, regardless of whether she admits it or not.

From the "Broken But Persistent Record" Dept:

Use the GD r# format instead of or in addition to a quotation, so readers need not scroll up trying to find the quotations context!

Looking at r149, r150, r151, and their ilk!

PROOF, R156? Your fantasy goes against everything ever written about Redford aside from movie magazines. Streisand may have wanted to but most definitely did not fuck Redford. None of the women in movies did with the possible exception of Natalie Wood in the 1960s.

"quotation's" (r157)

R158, how long have you been smoking crack? This is a GOSSIP website. Proof is certainly not required here nor is it asked for by anyone who regularly visits this site and understands what we are about.

Yes, his agents and publicists cultivated a golden boy with a golden family back in Utah image for Redford and guarded it at all times. Still, he was banging starlets left, right and center. He even admitted to it once. He gave some interview about his younger years as a big star. He said producer friends would fill their pools with pretty young women on weekends. Redford was ashamed of how easily he jumped right in there with them. I guess that was supposed to make it look as though he's matured and I suppose he has but that doesn't change the HUGE PUSSYHOUND that was Bob Redford for decades.

I've been on the Datalounge for 25 years. I have talked about Redford maybe five or six times over all those years. Invariably someone (and I wonder if it's always the same person) pipes up and desperately defends Redford's virtue and chastity with all those evil temptresses in LA! No no, not squeaky clean Bob! He never touched those pussies!

Child, please.

R160- He fucked Beth Jarrett too

I mean Mary Tyler Moore when they were filming Ordinary People back in 1979/80.

R260 = not playing with a full deck loop

Wrong thread, R162.

Bitch stole my act.

R125- Alpha Males?

She was attracted to

VAGINAS!

You won't be needing it anymore, r164.

R260, if Redford was such a womanizer, he’d like kissing more.

[quote]If one measure of a life well-lived, or, bad-lived, if you will, is the amount of reaction your existence generates, well done, Ms. Fonda.

Except, of course, that is not any kind of a measure of a life.

Apparently Redford can't even talk about movie sex -

Megyn Kelly asked Jane Fonda about her plastic surgery during an awkward on-air interview in 2017 because Robert Redford’s publicist wanted the broadcast journalist to change the subject from the co-stars’ love scenes, the ex-NBC star claimed on her podcast.

Redford was “visibly uncomfortable” with co-star Fonda because she “kept wanting to talk about being in bed with” him while they were promoting their new film back in 2017, according to Kelly, who interviewed the on-screen couple at the time.

“And during the commercial break, Robert Redford’s publicist specifically asked me if I would try to keep her off of that, if I would redirect the conversation to something else,” Kelly said.

I'm sorry but I never found Redford attractive, never in the same league as younger hotties such as Newman, Beatty, Lancaster, Burton, Bates, O'Toole

As a director Redford had a dark view. Movies like Ordinary People and Quiz Show.

Looks like Elton John at R169

R170, everyone on your list is/was actually older than Redford. Beatty may have been a few years younger but not many.

^ Warren Beatty born 1937, Robert Redford born 1936.

R173 I take it back about him never being hot, I actually looked up pics of him you g after I posted and he was actually hot. I was judging him from his late 70s movie onwards when he looked aged and wispy.

I know men wore longish hair in 1980, but 44 year old Redford's bleach combined with length creates an ewww factor.

Looks like Brad Pitt.

Yea he had a resemblance to Pitt

Pitt had a resemblance to Redford, not the other way around. Now in his 80's, Ordinary Bob is old enough to be Pitt's father.

R169 Kelly flubbed it. There are more tactful ways to set the tone and steer them clear of certain topics. Graham Norton is a matter at rolling with awkwardness and turning it into something funny.

Kelly is not. She's better at grilling people.

Megan Kelly is fucking racist, klanswoman, vile, Republican cocksucking piece of shit.

I can see how Redford's publicist might request that bigmouth Jane be moved off of her decades habit of publicly lusting after him. I can also see where Megan Kelly blew it by asking an inappropriate question. I'm sure she did it on purpose, Kelly's such a cunt.

R181 Don't hold back now. Tell us how you really feel.

Thank you Robert's publicist, R181.

She's 85, she has no more fucks to give.

Megyn Kelly knew Jane Fonda had a long history of supporting liberal causes. Jane's also an older woman, now. So Megyn took a potshot at Jane. However, Megyn, herself, has had plastic surgery. On her nose, at least. She's also got that square jaw and we shall see how she ages.

Looks like she could be Nancy Grace's niece in that picture. Maybe age like her?

The prosecution never rests, but the bitch face does...

Megyn Kelly should have asked Jane about her favorite recipes. Anything to get away from making Robert uncomfortable about the sex topic. I agree with Jane - he had a problem with women.

Can you imagine if Oprah had reunited Barbra Streisand with ANY of her other movie co-stars? Omar Sharif, Ryan O'Neal, George Segal, Nick Nolte, even Richard Dreyfuss? It would be warm and friendly. With Redford, it was icy, smug and disdainful.

I wonder how Redford is with his wife and what the nature of his problem with women is. Is it only with the women he is forced to make out with for pay? Does he feel like a prostitute for kissing on film, maybe due to religious reasons?

When is she dying?

R189, that's nuts. If he can't handle kissing or faking passion with a female other than his wife, he shouldn't have become an actor.

Most of Redford's movies when he was a hot commodity do not involve relationships with women. Ironically it was The Way We Were that made him a mega star.

This woman has some very serious fucking problems. She is not mentally well. And comes across like a total bitch who is unable to think for herself and botox'd to the brain.

Never liked her and can see why Bridget doesn't wanna have anything to do with her. Assuming so.

[quote]Never liked her

Which is the entire basis of your post. Dismissed.

Meryl never mentioned any difficulties when he played he Out Of Africa lover. Maybe because his character is ambivalent towards her and keeps pushing her away it kinda worked.

Jane's a lovely person. But her father was a first class prick.

I don't have an issue with what she said but she did dish some dirt.

Disappointing that Robert Redford is a jerk.

R141 MTM based Beth on her father.

quote]Meryl never mentioned any difficulties when he played he Out Of Africa lover.

Meryl knows where her bread is buttered. If miscast Redford wasn't in Out of Africa, it wouldn't have been made.

That's so strange, R141, and I must apologize. I remember years ago reading that Redford saw his father in Beth and MTM saw her mother.

But NO! I just went and looked it up and MTM said Beth reminded her of her father. Redford said he based his direction of Beth's character on his father. Thank you for letting me know.

R188 who gives a fuck about assuaging Robert Redford's feelings? Why kiss these people's ass?

Conduct your interview your way. Make it interesting. Have fun with it. Take whatever the groveling publicist says and mentally trash can it.

I'm Megyn Kelly goddamn it! This is my interview platform and we're going to ask the best questions in the world! The world will never see such interesting questions! It's my show!!!!

Don't fuck with me or tell me what to ask on my own gaddamn show!!!!

That's what she should have been like.

R199 You’re welcome.

Don’t test me on MTM trivia. 🥹

[quote]She was right about Vietnam.

So were thousands of others who stuck their necks out to protest the war, burn their draft cards, leave the country. Jane had a big mouth and the press went nuts covering HER. She didn't start anything.

Who is this lone person insisting Robert Redford was a womanizer? Besides wants and imagination, provide a source because it goes against everything ever said or written about him.

Redford always looked like some ruddy, pockmarked, ginger Irish American attractive jockboy fuckup douchebag. Never saw why he rose to the top of the Hollywood sex symbol pile. I guess it's his colouring and skin texture that doesn't do it for me. Objectively handsome young man.

[quote]So were thousands of others who stuck their necks out to protest the war, burn their draft cards, leave the country. Jane had a big mouth and the press went nuts covering HER. She didn't start anything.

Nobody said she started anything, just that she was right. And she got a shit ton of grief for it. God, you're an idiot.

R200, Megan Kelly tanked hard and managed to get herself removed from that television show fairly quickly. Maybe asking mean/rude questions to A-list celebrity guests wasn't her best move.

Was Jane any good in Julia?

R206, I thought so. She played Lillian Hellman and Vanessa Redgrave played her BFF, Julia.

R204, Jane Fonda wouldn't have gotten herself in half as much trouble if she protested like the other actors who were actively anti-Vietnam. She had the biggest mouth, ranted and ranted, many times absurdly, and made an ass of herself on several occasions. True activists did not take her seriously, I knew a few in 1971.

Here's a video of her actually saying all of these things. IMO, it was interesting to watch. She said that Redford "has a problem with women."

The only part I didn't like (on this video) was when she threw that scroll of paper (which came with the award Jane was presenting) on the woman's (recipient's) back. Seemed really petty of Jane to do that.

[quote] Meryl never mentioned any difficulties when he played he Out Of Africa lover. Maybe because his character is ambivalent towards her and keeps pushing her away it kinda worked.

He was *perfect* in that role: non-committal, cold, selfish.

R210, I get the impression he doesn't like assertive women. Meryl probably knew that about him and played to it in Out of Africa. Jane wouldn't even try to do that.

Remember that the first time they worked together, Jane was 23 and Bob was 24.

Why was Jane "in love" with Redford? If he was always in a bad mood, he didn't charm her. Possibly she was attracted to his handsomeness and bleached blond hair. Then she let him get away with whatever he wanted. That is skipping rehearsing of any kind.

Jane Fonda (Actor's Studio), Streep (Yale Drama), Dustin Hoffman (Pasadena Playhouse) and Paul Newman (Yale and Actors Studio) are "real" actors who require rehearsing in addition to a table read. Hoffman and Newman had a problem with this when it came to Redford who refused to rehearse. Fonda and Streep didn't seem to. Streisand never said anything about it, but Redford was quoted as saying "she'd talk and talk and drive me nuts" about her quest to flesh out her character. Not only did Redford put in a half assed job, he complained when others wanted to put in more.

[quote]Jane Fonda wouldn't have gotten herself in half as much trouble if she protested like the other actors who were actively anti-Vietnam.

Who gives a fuck if Jane Fonda "wouldn't have gotten herself in half as much trouble?" The point is she was a vocal opponent to the war at a time when it was very much needed. Jane didn't give a fuck and neither should you.

[quote] Why was Jane "in love" with Redford? If he was always in a bad mood, he didn't charm her. Possibly she was attracted to his handsomeness and bleached blond hair.

I just assumed she fell in love with his looks. He was very handsome back in the day. None of the men Jane married were very physically attractive. She married more for power and wealth than looks.

Bruce Beresford: “I don’t rehearse films as much as opera or theatre. When I began directing films I thought a long rehearsal was a good idea. Experience showed me that the best performance was often left in a rehearsal room.” After he worked with Fonda on "Peace, Love and Misunderstanding," he praised her as, "Old school and totally no attitude, just wonderful."

R214, I don't understand why you're so threatened by an opinion that differs from yours. Even Fonda herself wouldn't. It's an opinion, an educated opinion, Deal with it, or renew your meds.

No it's not on educated opinion. You have a bizarre hatred of Jane Fonda, for whatever reasons.

You need to read the entire thread, JANE.

[quote] Didn’t Ted Turner cheat on Jane before the ink on the marriage license was even dry?

Does it count as cheating when she is participating and coordinating ?

'Barbarella' icon Jane Fonda is embroiled in sex tape scandal.According a former pornographic magazine editor, the 68-year-old actress made a video of herself and her third husband in a threesome.In a new book, Allen MacDonnell claims the Oscar-winner was filmed with media mogul Ted Turner while he had sex with a brunette.Two other ex-editors of 'Hustler' magazine also allege they've seen the tape.Turner's spokesman and Fonda's spokeswoman yesterday (01.03.06) said each was "unavailable for comment"

"Prisoner of X," Allan MacDonell's account of his experiences as an editor at Hustler magazine, describes a purported video in which Fonda, Turner and an unidentified brunette have sex on camera.

MacDonell's description is too graphic for a family newspaper. Suffice it to say that the purported Fonda is allegedly wearing artificial equipment to pleasure the alleged Turner while he services the brunette and asks the camera operator, "Are you getting this?"

(The racy content was corroborated yesterday by two former Hustler colleagues who say they screened the tape, former editor Mike McPadden and another ex-editor who asked for anonymity.)

Has Jane ever commented about all the roles she's turned down?

If even some of these listed are true she turned down Bonnie and Clyde, Network, The Exorcist, An Unmarried Woman, Frances and Norma Rae?!

Imagine how different her career would have been had she turned down Barbarella and Steelyard Blues and instead taken on Dr. Zhivago, Bonnie and Clyde, The Graduate (Mrs. Robinson), Rosemary's Baby, The Exorcist, Network, An Unmarried Woman, Norma Rae, and Silkwood, all of which were offered to her.

She still had a pretty great career, R222. Fonda was all wrong for Doctor Zhivago, The Graduate and Rosemary's Baby - they might have done more harm than good. Among the others, I can see her in Network and The Exorcist.

Jane was far too young and beautiful to play Mrs Robinson as the site suggests. And probably too old for the daughter role.

R223 if she had done network would she have forgone a bra, as our Faye famously did?!

She went braless in Klute, R224.

Dirty pillowed bugger!

It's kinda funny that if you merged Jane's top 10 with Faye's you'd have one hell of a career!

BOnnie and Clyde was a masterpiece, IMO, as a film, and Faye Dunaway killed it. She was amazing as Bonnie. But I can see them considering casting Fonda to play Bonnie, but I'm glad they went with Faye Dunaway. She was great. Singular. She owned the part.

And neither Dunaway, nor Fonda have a Kennedy Center Honor while both of those male assholes Jack Nicholson and Dustin Hoffman do.

If those two earned one then so did Dunaway and Fonda

Dunaway barely even have a top 10. Bonnie and Clyde, Network, Chinatown, The Thomas Crown Affair, Barfly, Voyage of the Damned, The Three Musketeers, Mommie Dearest, Oklahoma Crude, Little Big Man? The rest is schlock.

Fonda will never get Kennedy Center Honors. She will never get the Medal of Freedom from any POTUS either. I'm a huge fan of hers. I happen to agree with a lot of what she talks about. But the Big Shots in Washington D.C. and their corporate minders won't give her any acknowledgement because she spoke against the Vietnam War. We joke about the Military Industrial Complex. But the Defense industry never forgives and never forgets. And now she is 1,000% active in the Environmental movement? Butting heads with industries and corporations who revere fossil fuel will never win her any accolades from Corporate America.

Dementia…?

Are you talking about R231, R232?

Jane was only 30ish when The Graduate was filmed, much too young to play the mother of a college-aged daughter.

Agreed, they'd have to give her the Liz Taylor WAOVW treatment. And Hoffman was too old to play Benjamin.

And Jon Voight was a decade too old for Joe Buck in Midnight Cowboy, R235. It's done all the time.

Anne Bancroft was only in her mid-30s when she played Mrs. Robinson.

She looked about ten years older r237. Jane Fonda still could've passed for a college student in '67.

Here's a picture of Fonda looking older in '67. I don't understand why Hollywood is more inclined to have older play younger, yet not so much the other way around. Nichols directed Taylor and Bancroft to play characters who were significantly older, and they pulled it off. He could have done the same with Jane.

I was a teenager when I first saw The Graduate and Midnight Cowboy. It was ridiculous to me that 30ish actors looked nothing like the age of the characters they were playing.

DL healthy catnip 🥰

R2, I agree, but her hanging out with VC soldiers on a tank holding q military rifle is not cool

[quote]He could have done the same with Jane.

She looked much too young for The Graduate.

Too bad Marilyn Monroe wasn't still alive, she would've been perfect as Mrs. Robinson.

I'd love to have seen Doris Day take it on if she'd only been willing to let down her hair for once.

Fonda has weird shaped lips, R239.

[quote]Too bad Marilyn Monroe wasn't still alive, she would've been perfect as Mrs. Robinson.

Fantasies, fantasies. Marilyn wouldn't be able to remember the lines and would have gotten fired FIRST DAY.

R245 if MM had got rid of her Shrink and drug-dispenser (Doctor) she would have been in much better shape. Most of the people MM went to for help seemed to have made her worse, probably as it was in their interests to keep her dependent.

The Shrink even had her be treated as one of his family, to expose her to happy family life!

[quote]I'd love to have seen Doris Day take it on if she'd only been willing to let down her hair for once.

She was first choice but turned it down. Either she or her lousy manager/husband.