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How Biden Blew It on the Debt Ceiling

As soon as Republicans took control of the House last November, it was obvious that they would try to take the economy hostage by refusing to raise the federal debt limit. After all, that’s what they did in 2011 — and hard as it may be to believe, the Tea Party Republicans were sober and sane compared to the MAGA crew. So it was also obvious that the Biden administration needed a strategy to head off the looming crisis.

More and more, however, it looks as if there never was a strategy beyond wishful thinking. I hope that I’m wrong about this — that President Biden will, at the last minute, unveil an effective counter to G.O.P. blackmail. He may even be forced to do so, as I’ll explain in a bit. But right now I have a sick feeling about all of this. What were they thinking? How can they have been caught so off-guard by something that everyone who’s paying attention saw coming?

For those somehow new to this, the United States has a weird and dysfunctional system in which Congress enacts legislation that determines federal spending and revenue, but then, if this legislation leads to a budget deficit, must vote a second time to authorize borrowing to cover the deficit. If even one house of Congress refuses to raise the debt limit, the U.S. government will go into default, with possibly catastrophic financial and economic effects.

This weird aspect of budgeting allows a party that is sufficiently ruthless, sufficiently indifferent to the havoc it might wreak, to attempt to impose through extortion policies it would never be able to enact through the normal legislative process.

What, then, should Biden & Co. have done once Republicans took the House? They could have tried to raise the debt ceiling during the lame-duck session. This would have been hard given an evenly divided Senate. If it was possible at all, it probably would have required making big concessions to those Democratic senators least supportive of Biden’s agenda. Still, better to have a hostage negotiation with Joe Manchin than with Marjorie Taylor Greene.

So unless there was a plan to deal with the coming confrontation, there should have been a major effort to raise the debt ceiling. The fact that there was no such effort suggested that maybe there was such a plan.

But all we’ve seen from Biden officials since the House changed hands has been a combination of assertions that a U.S. default would be catastrophic — which may well be true — and denigration of any and all possible end runs around the debt ceiling. My heart sank, for example, when Janet Yellen, the Treasury secretary, repeatedly rejected the idea of minting a platinum coin — one of several possible ways to bypass the debt limit — as a “gimmick.” Yes, it would be a gimmick, but it would also be harmless. As I explained the other day, it would not mean printing money to cover the deficit; in practice, it would amount to carrying out normal borrowing through a back door.

The problem is that Yellen was in effect saying that the administration wasn’t open to any strategies that sounded silly or unorthodox; yet every strategy that avoids the debt limit must, in fact, be unorthodox, and will probably sound silly if taken out of context.

The economic merits of various unconventional financing strategies aside, think about how the White House was positioning itself politically. On one side, it signaled that it was terrified of the consequences of default; on the other, it made it clear that it was unwilling even to consider any alternatives to an increase in the debt limit. The administration might as well have put a sign on its back saying “Kick Me.”

Maybe the administration expected moderate Republicans or business groups or supposedly nonpartisan advocacy groups to somehow step in and pressure the G.O.P. to produce a clean debt ceiling bill. But I don’t see how anyone who has been awake for the past 15 years could have believed that was a real possibility.

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by Anonymousreply 172June 7, 2023 10:15 PM

And sure enough, after months of asserting that it would never engage in negotiations over the debt ceiling, that it would accept nothing less than a clean increase, the administration is now … negotiating over the debt ceiling.

Many people have pointed out that this sets a terrible precedent, that having seen that extortion works, Republicans will engage in it again and again. Even these concerns, however, seem to me to be taking too long a view. Now that Republicans see what seems to be an administration on the run, there’s every reason to expect them to keep escalating their immediate demands — quite possibly to the point where no deal is possible.

There’s a precedent from the Obama years. Back in 2011, President Obama and John Boehner, who was then the speaker of the House, came very close to a so-called Grand Bargain on debt that would have been objectively terrible — it would, for example, have raised the age of eligibility for Medicare, even though life expectancy for working-class Americans had risen very little — and would probably have been politically disastrous for Democrats. But the deal fell through because Republicans were unwilling to accept even small tax increases as part of a deficit-reduction plan.

Sure enough, Republicans have reportedly rejected every proposal to make a debt ceiling deal more acceptable to the Democratic base by closing tax loopholes.

I have no idea what happens next. I think there’s a real possibility that Biden officials will in the end be forced by sheer Republican intransigence to adopt unconventional methods after all — a task that will be made much harder by the fact that those same officials have spent months trash-talking the approaches they may need to follow.

But I don’t see any way to regard this whole episode as anything but a disastrous failure to face up to the reality of an opposition party controlled by extremists.

by Anonymousreply 1May 22, 2023 1:26 AM

Weird how absolutely nothing ever in the entire history of the country is the fault of Republican assholes. Absolutely nothing. Their entire job is to be cunts and everybody just has to work around that. Amazing.

A vote for a Republican is ALWAYS a vote for shit and nonsense.

by Anonymousreply 2May 22, 2023 1:33 AM

And how many times was the ceiling raised under the previous administration?

by Anonymousreply 3May 22, 2023 1:38 AM

R2, this is from Paul Krugman, obviously no Republican apologist. He urged the Dems in the lame-duck session to avoid this likely result. But I guess they thought they could make political hay over this, as they had on the past,

by Anonymousreply 4May 22, 2023 1:43 AM

If Krugman is scared then I'm scared.

by Anonymousreply 5May 22, 2023 1:44 AM

Or they had to deal with cunts like Joe Manchin and Kyrstin Sinema r4, and had to give up on getting anything accomplished. Cause cunts gotta cunt. Yes, I can see why people get frustrated by Democrats, but it is always the conservative "sensible" Democrats that fuck things up the most. And always, always because it's a given that Republican fuckwads are just there in Washington to be complete fuckwads. Always.

by Anonymousreply 6May 22, 2023 1:46 AM

They could’ve extended the debt ceiling until Jan. 2025 in the lame duck, when they controlled Congress. Idiots,

by Anonymousreply 7May 22, 2023 1:54 AM

They "barely" controlled Congress, and as always, a couple of assholes in the Senate simply weren't going to allow anything useful to happen, cause REASONS.

by Anonymousreply 8May 22, 2023 1:55 AM

Hold me David, I'm scared.

by Anonymousreply 9May 22, 2023 1:56 AM

Did they even make an effort, R8?

by Anonymousreply 10May 22, 2023 1:57 AM

Hopefully once the dems take back control of the House & the Senate in a super majority they'll do away with the debt ceiling altogether.

by Anonymousreply 11May 22, 2023 1:59 AM

Honestly, I have no idea. I know how nearly impossible it was to get a big infrastructure bill through the Democratic "controlled" Congress, which should have been the easiest thing in the world. It should have been a thing that just happened as a matter of course in the first week, but cause cunts gotta cunt, it turned into a big nightmare that barely passed. I'm sure any effort on getting rid of the completely moronic debt ceiling requirement would have failed also.

by Anonymousreply 12May 22, 2023 2:01 AM

When do you imagine that happening, R11? The likelihood of them keeping the Senate beyond this Congress is not great. It could be many more Congresses before they regain a Senate majority, let alone a “super majority.”

by Anonymousreply 13May 22, 2023 2:02 AM

R12, Krugman, post-midterms, wasn’t advocating that they get rid of the requirement - that would’ve required 60 votes. He merely argued that they then & there extended it until the end of Biden’s first term.

by Anonymousreply 14May 22, 2023 2:05 AM

And where was that dingbat Sinema going to go with that r14? And Manchin? And how much sand were they going to throw in the gears on that and everything else? I understand Krugman's frustrating, but it goes well beyond Biden "trying." As long as everything is always so fucking tight, and as long as there are just enough Democratic assholes to join with the always-assholes Republican party, I think that frustration is just going to have to continue. It's amazing Biden has accomplished anything considering the dynamic in Washington, starting with the stupid rule that Republicans are never, ever expected to do anything remotely useful for anybody other than the super rich. Why that is a given I don't know, but it is a given.

by Anonymousreply 15May 22, 2023 2:08 AM

You can’t succeed if you don’t even try. But Biden thought he could roll the republicans.

by Anonymousreply 16May 22, 2023 2:17 AM

The NY Times often is as low as Fox.

Everyone wants maximum bullshit and a free ride to the rolling GOP civil war attacking our nation.

by Anonymousreply 17May 22, 2023 2:22 AM

I don't think he did r16. I think he was dealing with the weak hand the voters gave him. And still is. And again, any criticism for the Republicans themselves, or is this once again a case where Republican bullshit and nonsense is simply the background that everybody must accept as a given and never, ever question.

by Anonymousreply 18May 22, 2023 2:23 AM

Right on time!

The NY Times enters its quadrennial shitting on Democrats (to the surprise of those living in reality) and begins their square dance of not exactly supporting the utterly failed and criminal Trump/GOP, but painting them as a gosh darn reasonable option in the next election!

It is bizarre how the Times seems to have no core, or rudder at all other than extreme middle class Jewish taste in everything except politics...oh, and more articles about the TRANS!

by Anonymousreply 19May 22, 2023 2:47 AM

[quote]You can’t succeed if you don’t even try. But Biden thought he could roll the republicans.

Neither you, nor the NY Times knows anything about who "tried" to do anything about this. It is pure folly to insist that the Senate and White House are just playing marbles awaiting such stakeholders as Paul Krugman to decipher and school everyone on national events!

The Times thinks it's a good idea to publish David Brooks and Maureen Dowd for Christ's sake! What can they possibly know about ANYTHING?

by Anonymousreply 20May 22, 2023 2:53 AM

If no deal is reached----->>No Social Security checks on the Third. No food stamps either. Lock your doors.

by Anonymousreply 21May 22, 2023 2:56 AM

Kevin McCarthy is absolutely useless. He sold his soul

by Anonymousreply 22May 22, 2023 3:09 AM

“We’ll come up with a bipartisan solution… it’s called being grabbed by the balls…”

by Anonymousreply 23May 22, 2023 3:11 AM

Social Security is not included in the actual budget, regardless of the scare tactics, they will still go out on time.

by Anonymousreply 24May 22, 2023 3:16 AM

Both sides seem incompetent. Democrats want to increase the debt ceiling with no cuts and Republicans want to cut benefits on the most vulnerable. The U.S. is fucked.

by Anonymousreply 25May 22, 2023 3:17 AM

The economy is screwed. The U.S. is a borrower nation and China will never get their money back.

by Anonymousreply 26May 22, 2023 3:19 AM

Of course Democrats want to increase the debt ceiling with no cuts. That should be routine. The debt ceiling is the stupidest fucking thing any government does to itself. End it. And end any pretense that it has the slightest sense or the slightest actual reason. You borrow the money when you pass the budget. Fine. Then shut the fuck up about it and don't came back a year later with some stupid bullshit nonsense about some "debt ceiling."

by Anonymousreply 27May 22, 2023 3:30 AM

R24 Sorry but you are wrong. There will be no Social Security or Food Stamps if there is a default. LINK....

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by Anonymousreply 28May 22, 2023 3:42 AM

It feels like end times. Even with a deal we are entering a recession.

by Anonymousreply 29May 22, 2023 4:11 AM

I'm concerned.

by Anonymousreply 30May 22, 2023 4:21 AM

[quote]There will be no Social Security or Food Stamps if there is a default

The president can spend all the cash received every day from tax payments and tax withholding. The spending will have to be prioritized since it wont be enough to cover all the spending appropriated by Congress. If the president chooses not to pay social security benefits in full, it will be interesting to see what programs he prioritizes ahead of it.

by Anonymousreply 31May 22, 2023 4:32 AM

It’s going to be ugly. Interest rates on credit cards are already at 21%. People will have to deal with layoffs etc. If there is a collapse, it’s curtains for Biden.

by Anonymousreply 32May 22, 2023 4:37 AM

It will be interesting to see how the hungry poor people react without food stamps while the Billionaires don't pay taxes.

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by Anonymousreply 33May 22, 2023 4:37 AM

[quote]The Biden administration has already dismissed the untested idea of paying some bills but not others, arguing that it would be unfair to average Americans, cause widespread economic disruption and prove logistically impossible.

A court may have to step in and order the administration to do the right thing and prioritize so that the highest priority payments are made on time.

by Anonymousreply 34May 22, 2023 4:50 AM

[quote]They could’ve extended the debt ceiling until Jan. 2025 in the lame duck, when they controlled Congress. Idiots,

No, there was no chance with Manchin and Sinema holding their own party hostage. Those two need to go.

by Anonymousreply 35May 22, 2023 4:54 AM

The Dems need to learn to play dirty tricks, the way the Republicans do. Every time there's a big national issue, every single Republican is speaking in exactly the same language, using exactly the same talking points, that were written by lobbyists. And they are speaking in a unified voice, so people hear that message again and again and again, and think it's the truth.

But Democrats respond, individually with facts, and from reality, and they aren't all parroting the same talking points. And that just confuses people.

If I were a democrat running against Manchin in a primary, I would get so down in the mud that we'd never come up for air. I would repeat endlessly that his daughter is the CEO of a pharmaceutical company behind exorbitant drug prices who lied about having an MBA. I would say that so many times until people just thought he was absolutely the worst person in the world with the most corrupt family and he needed to go.

I love Michelle Obama, but her "when they go low, we go high" quote doesn't work in the real world. It works in my brain, but it doesn't work in other's.

by Anonymousreply 36May 22, 2023 5:09 AM

[quote]If the president chooses not to pay social security benefits in full, it will be interesting to see what programs he prioritizes ahead of it.

Reparation checks?

by Anonymousreply 37May 22, 2023 5:11 AM

When the NYT - & Paul Krugman especially - is considered essentially a GOP organ, it brings to mind Trump calling any Republican who deigns to put any distance between him a RINO.

by Anonymousreply 38May 22, 2023 6:07 AM

It’s not a given that most Americans won’t blame the Republicans. At least one can hope.

by Anonymousreply 39May 22, 2023 6:09 AM

R16, don't count out Dark Brandon.

by Anonymousreply 40May 22, 2023 6:12 AM

[quote] If the president chooses not to pay social security benefits in full, it will be interesting to see what programs he prioritizes ahead of it.

Tree Equity

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by Anonymousreply 41May 22, 2023 7:03 AM

If he has to prioritize, I hope he suspends payments to Government Contractors.

by Anonymousreply 42May 22, 2023 7:17 AM

When there is a government shutdown, the bulk of the federal workforce is furloughed because they are "non-essential". Perhaps some money can be saved by temporarily furloughing all the government workers that are not needed.

by Anonymousreply 43May 22, 2023 7:45 AM

Didn’t this happen with Trump? When the government shut down? Or was that something else?

by Anonymousreply 44May 22, 2023 7:52 AM

[quote] Didn’t this happen with Trump? When the government shut down? Or was that something else?

No, republicans never pull this stunt on one of their own. It's only used against democratic presidents.

by Anonymousreply 45May 22, 2023 10:20 AM

r45, if it were a Republican president and a Republican Congress, they would control the appropriations and would just cut spending that way. The debt ceiling route would only be necessary in the scenario where the GOP controls one of both houses of Congress but the White House is controlled by the Democrats.

by Anonymousreply 46May 22, 2023 10:36 AM

Yeah, R46, except the deficit exploded under Trump & his bootlickers then controlling Congress increased the debt limit without incident.

by Anonymousreply 47May 22, 2023 11:05 AM

[quote]If I were a democrat running against Manchin in a primary, I would get so down in the mud that we'd never come up for air.

On the off chance you'd beat Manchin in the primary, you'd be ceding the seat to a Republican in the general. A quasi-Democrat like Manchin is the best we can hope for in West Virginia. At the moment, at least.

by Anonymousreply 48May 22, 2023 11:15 AM

Democrats seem to want to fly by the seat of their pants and not plan strategically for obstacles down the road with repubs. Either they're not too bright...or very lazy. Do they really think NOW, after all the fuckery of repubs, that they can still negotiate with them....reach across the aisle?? What the hell is the matter with them?? I get so frustrated.

by Anonymousreply 49May 22, 2023 12:17 PM

[quote] If I were a democrat running against Manchin in a primary, I would get so down in the mud that we'd never come up for air.

Don't you mean if you were a republican operative doing their bidding by primarying Manchin?

by Anonymousreply 50May 22, 2023 1:42 PM

I don’t know why Democrats are drawing a red line against having a work requirement for people receiving benefits. It’s something that should have always been in place. If the parties can’t agree on something sensible that should have bipartisan support, how can they agree on any of the tough things?

by Anonymousreply 51May 22, 2023 2:32 PM

Biden is old school and saw this in old school terms.

He thought these house repubs would posture but then back down from the danger that, if the debt ceiling were breached, and services stopped, the blowback would destroy them politically.

This worked up until the mid 2010s politically, but it doesn’t work at all anymore. Trump did possibly irreparable damage to American politics. There are tens of millions of low-information, easily-manipulated middle American rightwingers who are actually quite will to topple the system in place now, largely fueled by anger stoked by demagoguery. Just look at 1/6 — that’s what I mean in action.

What they don’t understand is just how much they’re harming themselves by doing this. They’re angry and resentful that the American prosperity of the 50s is just a distant memory now. What they don’t realize is, the people dismantling that and tilting the table to the rich are the same people who are right now telling them, blacks, immigrants, homosexuals and liberals are to blame.

by Anonymousreply 52May 22, 2023 2:42 PM

[quote] He thought these house repubs would posture but then back down from the danger that, if the debt ceiling were breached, and services stopped, the blowback would destroy them politically. This worked up until the mid 2010s politically, but it doesn’t work at all anymore.

Our system has become so dysfunctional. It’s almost impossible to enact severe cuts in spending.

by Anonymousreply 53May 22, 2023 3:01 PM

Thanks for proving my point for me about low-information voters gleefully doing the lemming thing, Defacto at r53.

by Anonymousreply 54May 22, 2023 3:05 PM

Biden thinks the Debt Ceiling is a club where Lionel Ritchie sings and dances.

by Anonymousreply 55May 22, 2023 3:09 PM

High stakes negotiations -- whether in politics or business -- always go down to the wire.

Only the nervous Nellies get their knickers in a twist.

by Anonymousreply 56May 22, 2023 3:11 PM

[quote]Kevin McCarthy is absolutely useless. He sold his soul

He wasn’t born with a soul.

by Anonymousreply 57May 22, 2023 3:15 PM

If I were a democrat I’d be taking out ads in every swing state and district with a vulnerable republican seat and shouting about how republicans are about to ruin your life for no reason.

by Anonymousreply 58May 22, 2023 3:23 PM

[quote] Biden thinks the Debt Ceiling is a club where Lionel Ritchie sings and dances.

People who lie about Biden like this also worship a guy who doesn’t know the words to the national anthem, calls US fleets “armadas” and thinks Frederick Douglass is still alive.

by Anonymousreply 59May 22, 2023 3:41 PM

R35 Biden said he would be able to work across the aisle with Republicans and get things done.

by Anonymousreply 60May 22, 2023 3:50 PM

R60 Actually he will, but it's a game of chicken and nothing will be agreed till 23:59. Calm down.

by Anonymousreply 61May 22, 2023 3:55 PM

This reads like something written by the NYT Pitchbot.

by Anonymousreply 62May 22, 2023 4:09 PM

Chickie...chickie...chickie

by Anonymousreply 63May 22, 2023 4:16 PM

Reparations are not popular. Between a failing economy, trans issues, and homeless, I am not seeing Biden winning.

by Anonymousreply 64May 22, 2023 5:00 PM

Still seeing that ‘22 nonexistent red wave, are you, R64?

by Anonymousreply 65May 22, 2023 6:19 PM

I’m expecting the inevitable backlash.

by Anonymousreply 66May 22, 2023 6:28 PM

Don't be so smug, r65.

In 2016, the "Red Wave" morphed into a Tsunami.

by Anonymousreply 67May 22, 2023 9:10 PM

Let's see. Struggling economy on the mend from Covid and the resulting inflation and dislocation. perfect time to wreck it before it gets any better

by Anonymousreply 68May 22, 2023 9:18 PM

Seriously, how long are we expected to keep pouring money into the war between Russia and the Ukraine? Let's not turn this into another Vietnam.

by Anonymousreply 69May 22, 2023 9:26 PM

R45 But why did the government shut down under Trump then?

by Anonymousreply 70May 22, 2023 9:30 PM

[quote][R35] Biden said he would be able to work across the aisle with Republicans and get things done.

And he has, r60.

by Anonymousreply 71May 22, 2023 9:34 PM

Ok, Boris, er, R69.

by Anonymousreply 72May 22, 2023 9:45 PM

I like Biden but I agree he blew it on this. And there's absolutely no excuse for him never seeming to get that Republicans want to destroy him to help themselves.

by Anonymousreply 73May 22, 2023 9:46 PM

R69 can help itself to a beet from the bin labeled "substandard but edible."

by Anonymousreply 74May 22, 2023 9:46 PM

[quote]But why did the government shut down under Trump then?

I think that had more to do with the budget and Trump’s wall that Mexico was going to pay for…but didn’t.

by Anonymousreply 75May 22, 2023 9:53 PM

R75 I am not being scarcastic. I just remember that the government shut down under Trump and knew it has to do with budget.

by Anonymousreply 76May 22, 2023 10:03 PM

R76, this is very different. This has to do with the government defaulting on paying its bills. Republicans have been assholes over the budget but they’ve never allowed the country to run out of money like they’re about to do now.

by Anonymousreply 77May 22, 2023 10:07 PM

Better save those beets, r69, for the elderly who won't be getting their Social Security checks next month. June is just around the corner.

by Anonymousreply 78May 22, 2023 10:24 PM

Jared B of the Council of Economic Advisors has Biden's ear. Unfortunately Jared is not an economist. He's a social worker with a DSW degree which he presents as a PhD. Biden being an idiot about education doesn't realize there is a significant difference.

by Anonymousreply 79May 22, 2023 10:32 PM

If Social Security checks don't go out as usual, January 6th will look like an ice cream social.

by Anonymousreply 80May 22, 2023 10:33 PM

If just one white old fuck finally starts to get it, it would be worth it r80.

by Anonymousreply 81May 22, 2023 10:36 PM

[quote] If just one white old fuck finally starts to get it, it would be worth it

What is "it"? If you're presuming that republicans will get the blame, I think you're presuming too much.

by Anonymousreply 82May 22, 2023 11:35 PM

Has Biden or any of the Dems expressed the slightest bit if concern over how the elderly and the working poor will manage without their checks? If he has, I haven't heard it.

by Anonymousreply 83May 22, 2023 11:39 PM

R82. I think people will blame the whole government, so at least Republicans as the architects of this whole mess will be catching some of the blame.

It's pretty scary to think that civil war might be just a weeks away. That's probably overly dramatic though.

Perhaps we can get some viable third-party candidates and parties out of this.

by Anonymousreply 84May 23, 2023 12:14 AM

After whatever happens, happens, Biden still retains the bully pulpit.

Republicans will lose/lose for 2024.

by Anonymousreply 85May 23, 2023 12:54 AM

[quote] Biden still retains the bully pulpit.

I wish he would/could use it.

by Anonymousreply 86May 23, 2023 1:58 AM

Just wait. I trust Joe more than all/any of the Congressional Republicans together.

Joe has American's backs.

by Anonymousreply 87May 23, 2023 2:27 AM

[quote]That's probably overly dramatic though.

Ya think?

by Anonymousreply 88May 23, 2023 2:45 AM
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by Anonymousreply 89May 23, 2023 2:56 AM

🎶[italic] Another Day Older

And Deeper In Debt . . . . .

by Anonymousreply 90May 23, 2023 12:39 PM

Since the enactment of the US government's current budget and appropriations process in 1976, there have been a total of 22 funding gaps in the federal budget, ten of which have led to federal employees being furloughed.

by Anonymousreply 91May 23, 2023 12:53 PM

Biden sucks.

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by Anonymousreply 92May 23, 2023 1:18 PM

R91, what is your point? You are talking about a shutdown, where only essential services are provided. This is a default, which has never happened. Nothing would get paid.

by Anonymousreply 93May 23, 2023 1:23 PM

Biden is a stubborn old man whose cupboards are never bare. What does he have to worry about if his social security check doesn't come on time?

by Anonymousreply 94May 23, 2023 1:29 PM

Don't compare him to the Almighty, just compare him to the alternative.

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by Anonymousreply 95May 23, 2023 2:05 PM

r94, That could be said for all Republicans.

Given the history, I am betting on the guy who reduced insulin to $35 a month, who next year is capping Medicare to $2K out of pocket, who finally is building roads and bridges and internet access.

THAT guy has my back.

If everything goes to hell, I'd rather HE rebuild the economy and not the Republicans.

by Anonymousreply 96May 23, 2023 8:18 PM

Just watched @lawrence on The Last Word.

I agree with him. Biden knows what he is doing.

Biden 100%.

.

R87

by Anonymousreply 97May 24, 2023 2:41 AM

I’m not so sure. Trump is telling Republicans to let a default happen if they don’t get everything they want. Maybe there will be some other vote organized but I am actually expecting a default, because the House is controlled by Trump.

by Anonymousreply 98May 24, 2023 3:56 AM

What if Biden’s DOJ agreed not to charge Trump? Would that be enough for the GQP to agree to lift the debt ceiling?

by Anonymousreply 99May 24, 2023 8:12 PM

[quote] What if Biden’s DOJ agreed not to charge Trump? Would that be enough for the GQP to agree to lift the debt ceiling?

No, because that wouldn’t slash spending.

by Anonymousreply 100May 24, 2023 9:02 PM

And I disagree with Lawrence - because Lawrence is leaving out the most pertinent fact in his "theory." It is simply irrelevant whether (as Lawrence asserts) McCarthy doesn't really want a default, because the insane whackos holding McCarthy's leadership position hostage DO want a default. They are salivating at the very thought.

So the real question is - what is more important to McCarthy, his leadership position (which can be yanked from him with one vote) or the solvency of the United States?

Take a guess.

by Anonymousreply 101May 24, 2023 9:09 PM

You can always count on MAGAts to utter the silent part out loud.

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by Anonymousreply 102May 25, 2023 12:19 AM

R55, you’re an idiot.

by Anonymousreply 103May 25, 2023 1:37 AM

r92 excpet all of that is the result of what Trump did to the economy. Biden has been fixing it but it has been slow, the same way Bush crashed the economy and Obama had to fix it. The first four years were not golden years. The second were where all of it came to fruition and the economy grew.

by Anonymousreply 104May 25, 2023 2:04 AM

So they are all going home for the weekend with no deal in place? Seniors, stock up on your Top Ramen.

by Anonymousreply 105May 25, 2023 2:07 AM

R99, apart from the whole obstruction of justice problem, that would never be enough. They’d just demand something else.

by Anonymousreply 106May 25, 2023 2:08 AM

^ Yeah, my “proposal” was mostly in jest. If Trump got a pass, they’d then demand the 1/6 seditionists be freed.

by Anonymousreply 107May 25, 2023 2:54 AM

[quote]Has Biden or any of the Dems expressed the slightest bit if concern over how the elderly and the working poor will manage without their checks?

Agreed! The biggest threat to Social Security, Medicare and seniors has ALWAYS been Democrats!

by Anonymousreply 108May 25, 2023 4:33 AM

You turd, Republicans have been salivating since 1935 to damage Social Security and Medicare and Medicaid since LBJ. Republicans HATE benefit programs.

by Anonymousreply 109May 25, 2023 7:41 AM

^ “It’s socialism!!!”

by Anonymousreply 110May 25, 2023 7:52 AM

They're doing it on purpose. It's all on purpose. The high "inflation", where prices are double or more, the threats to stop paying for social services, etc. They don't care if people suffer as long as they make the people believe bad things happen when Dems are in control.

I also think they keep wanting a recession and then a depression. They've been salivating at the thought of struggling people losing their homes (like 2008) so the upper classes can snatch them up like last time. People are somehow hanging on by a thread though, ruining their plans.

We aren't going into a recession simply because 20% have really been making out, especially since covid. That's why the economy looks so good. They're carrying it for all of us. Doesn't matter that 80% are living paycheck to paycheck -- the 20% are out there blowing money, at least for now. Now they're really going in to squeeze necks with cutting benefits, hoping we lose our homes and everything else. Poors failing is like Thanksgiving for the top.

by Anonymousreply 111May 25, 2023 10:10 AM

The Social Safety Net Is socialism

Just as Federal gas and oil subsidies are also corporate welfare/socialism.

Democrats fund people, Republicans fund Big Business.

And your point is?

by Anonymousreply 112May 25, 2023 10:11 AM

[quote] They don't care if people suffer as long as they make the people believe bad things happen when Dems are in control.

You can’t make people believe that bad things happened. People know if bad things did happen or didn’t happen without being told to believe one thing or the other.

by Anonymousreply 113May 25, 2023 10:18 AM

R32, Which shows the utter stupidity of Americans. Blame the Democrats for not fixing problems caused by Republicans, by voting in more Republicans!

by Anonymousreply 114May 25, 2023 10:27 AM

How the fuck can a POTUS run the country "Without blowing it" when Congress is CONSTANTLY up the man's ass for his entire term? I love this Biden's not doing his job critique with little acknowledgment that Congress refuses to work with the guy because they're assholes. Full stop. If I were Biden, I would make it damn well known McCarthy and his ilk are STILL juggling Trump's balls. I would send sista-friend out the press to detail every ridiculous obstruction they've pulled out of their collective ass crack to get this done.

I'm talking graphs, flowcharts, and bad-ass PowerPoint presentations.

by Anonymousreply 115May 25, 2023 10:29 AM

^^NOT get this done^^

Sorry, posting from my phone

by Anonymousreply 116May 25, 2023 10:31 AM

It appears that Biden got a two rear rise in the debt so he can run unfettered with a budgetary drop of 10 Billion dollars in the IRS 80 Billion Dollar Inflation Reduction Act. Republican fools, it can be restored when Democrats take back Congress on Biden's reelection.

Never vote for another Republican EVER!

by Anonymousreply 117May 26, 2023 4:26 AM

Now All that Kevin has to do is get his caucus to vote for it. We'll see.

by Anonymousreply 118May 26, 2023 4:27 AM

[quote]It appears that Biden got a two rear rise in the debt so he can run unfettered with a budgetary drop of 10 Billion dollars in the IRS 80 Billion Dollar Inflation Reduction Act. Republican fools, it can be restored when Democrats take back Congress on Biden's reelection.

Surely McCarthy isn't going to give up the work requirement. If Democrats don't accede to that, I don't see an agreement happening.

by Anonymousreply 119May 26, 2023 4:39 AM

[quote]Now All that Kevin has to do is get his caucus to vote for it. We'll see.

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by Anonymousreply 120May 26, 2023 4:43 AM

A lot of blame rests on the shoulders of FAKE Democrats Sinema and Manchin. They are both assholes. It's not all their fault. But they sure as hell fucked up a Democrat Agenda.

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by Anonymousreply 121May 26, 2023 5:41 AM

^ For the umpteenth time, I'll note that WHATEVER we get from a WV Dem is gravy. Maybe more of us we'll realize how fortunate we've been when he's gone in '25, replaced by a MAGAt. Sinema, on the other hand, is a whole different kettle of fish.

by Anonymousreply 122May 26, 2023 9:37 AM

When Manchin went to FUCKING Fox to explain why he didn't support the Build Back Better Plan, I knew he had been...compromised.

by Anonymousreply 123May 26, 2023 10:04 AM

The editorial is setting itself up for quite a feast of crow.

by Anonymousreply 124May 26, 2023 11:36 AM

R121, The adjective form is "Democratic." Only Republicans deliberately use the incorrect "Democrat," because to a one they are puerile.

by Anonymousreply 125May 26, 2023 11:39 AM

R120, CNN is nuts!

Rep. Susan Wild is my Rep from PA's Lehigh Valley, and she is no more "politically vulnerable" than Mitch McConnell has been!

by Anonymousreply 126May 26, 2023 11:45 AM

[quote] When Manchin went to FUCKING Fox to explain why he didn't support the Build Back Better Plan, I knew he had been...compromised.

Or a politician who wants to be re-elected. If he could so by going on Fox every FUCKING day, I'd say bravo!

by Anonymousreply 127May 26, 2023 12:29 PM

[quote]Sinema, on the other hand, is a whole different kettle of fish.

I see what you did there, R122!

by Anonymousreply 128May 26, 2023 12:45 PM

[quote] because to a one they are puerile.

Oh, dear.

by Anonymousreply 129May 26, 2023 12:49 PM

R129, For my edification, please point out the specific error in my full sentence at r125, which says that all Republicans (the correct and only antecedent for "they") are, to a person and barring none, childish. Or do you not know what "to a one" means?

And WHEN will all posters learn that disembodied quotes help no-one, especially those of us who like, you know, context?

Format example: r125.

by Anonymousreply 130May 26, 2023 1:56 PM

[quote]Reparations are not popular. Between a failing economy, trans issues, and homeless, I am not seeing Biden winning.

A strong B+ on the grammar, Yevgeny. "Seeing Biden winning" is technically correct in English but a bit clumsy, definitely not native English phrasing. "a way for Biden to win in 2024" would sound more "American".

And please remind your trollfarm supervisor that US unemployment is currently at 3.4%? Mindlessly parroting GOP talking points without fact-checking just makes you sound like an idiot.

One beet and one shot of the nice vodka for you!

by Anonymousreply 131May 26, 2023 2:06 PM

[quote]The editorial is setting itself up for quite a feast of crow.

Paul Krugman has many qualities, arrogance isn't one of them. He'll be the first to admit if he's wrong.

by Anonymousreply 132May 26, 2023 2:13 PM

They pull this shit everytime, trying to scare us all.

by Anonymousreply 133May 26, 2023 2:22 PM

R131, "I'm not seeing Biden winning" does sound pretty colloquial to me (a native speaker of American English). Would you see your way to awarding R64 another half a beet?

by Anonymousreply 134May 26, 2023 2:26 PM

[quote]Would you see your way to awarding [R64] another half a beet?

Sorry, all out of beets. Best I can do is an extra dose of Krokodil.

by Anonymousreply 135May 26, 2023 2:29 PM

Good to hear it, r132, but the idiom doesn't suppose "arrogance."

by Anonymousreply 136May 26, 2023 4:38 PM

New CNN Poll --Majority think Biden would be a disaster

Kennedy slowly rising. Majorities of all Democratic and Democratic-leaning voters say they would at least consider backing either Kennedy (64% support him or would consider him) or Williamson (53% back her or would consider her), but when asked to explain the main reasons they would consider each of them, few seem deeply tied to either candidate.

Convincing the overall public that he deserves a second term could prove a challenge. Two-thirds (66%) of all Americans say a Biden victory would either be a setback or a disaster for the country. The leading contender for the Republican nomination, former president Donald Trump, fares slightly better (43% say a Trump win would be a triumph or a step forward, 56% a disaster or a setback), though the two are about even in the share who say each of them winning would be a disaster (44% say so about Trump, while 41% say the same about Biden). And among independents, 45% say a Trump win would be a disaster while 35% say a Biden win would be.

The broader negativity toward Biden stems from a more pessimistic assessment among his own partisans than Trump faces, while strong opposition across the aisle is about even for both of them. More than 8 in 10 Democrats say a Trump win would be a disaster (82%) while a near-identical share of Republicans say a Biden win would be a disaster (83%). But Republicans are more likely to call a Trump win a triumph or a step forward (85%) than Democrats are to say the same about Biden (73%).

The poll finds that one advantage Biden held over Trump in their first matchup in 2020 – a stronger favorability rating – may have evaporated. Among all Americans, 35% say they have a favorable view of Biden and 57% an unfavorable one, numbers near identical to Trump’s. Positive views of Biden stood at 42% as recently as December, and among independents over that time, his favorability has dipped from 35% to 26%.

Views of Biden are sharply more negative than are views of each of the three living Democratic past presidents. Barack Obama is the most positively viewed of all the living presidents tested in the poll, 57% hold a favorable view, 35% an unfavorable one. Impressions of 98-year-old Jimmy Carter, who recently entered hospice care, break positive, 43% favorable to 21% unfavorable, with 36% unsure or unable to rate him. And the public divides over Bill Clinton, with 41% expressing a favorable view and 42% an unfavorable one.

The CNN Poll was conducted by SSRS from May 17-20 among a random national sample of 1,227 adults drawn from a probability-based panel, including 432 Democrats and Democratic-leaning independents who are registered to vote. Surveys were either conducted online or by telephone with a live interviewer. Results among the full sample have a margin of sampling error of plus or minus 3.7 points; among Democratic and Democratic-leaning voters, the margin of sampling error is 6.2 points.

Just a third of Americans say that Biden winning in 2024 would be a step forward or a triumph for the country (33%). At the same time, the survey finds a decline in favorable views of Biden over the past six months, from 42% in December to 35% now. And results from the same poll released earlier this week showed Biden’s approval rating for handling the presidency at 40%, among the lowest for any first-term president since Dwight Eisenhower at this point in their term.

Within his own party, 60% of Democratic and Democratic-leaning voters say they back Biden for the top of next year’s Democratic ticket, 20% favor activist and lawyer Robert F. Kennedy, Jr., and 8% back author Marianne Williamson. Another 8% say they would support an unnamed “someone else.”

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by Anonymousreply 137May 26, 2023 4:50 PM

[quote] Kennedy slowly rising. Majorities of all Democratic and Democratic-leaning voters say they would at least consider backing either Kennedy (64% support him or would consider him) or Williamson (53% back her or would consider her)

Kennedy is the defacto fallback candidate, since other Democrats were too cowardly to throw their hat in the ring.

by Anonymousreply 138May 26, 2023 5:25 PM

[quote] a random national sample of 1,227 adults drawn from a probability-based panel, including 432 Democrats and Democratic-leaning independents

Does this mean that almost two-thirds of those polled were Republicans and Republican-leaning independents (assuming a small number of completely neutral independents)? Is that a representative sampling of the voting population?

by Anonymousreply 139May 26, 2023 5:45 PM

The majority of those Dems polled have no idea Bobby’s politics. They’re either in love with his name and/or expressing their interest in some, any, alternative.

by Anonymousreply 140May 26, 2023 7:39 PM

[quote] The majority of those Dems polled have no idea Bobby’s politics.

I’ll wager that the majority of Dems opposed to Kennedy have no idea what his policy positions are. (Cue someone to look it up on Google right now and then act like they did know beforehand.)

by Anonymousreply 141May 26, 2023 8:23 PM

It's Joe. Everybody stop dicking around. Get with the program, people, and stop all this scrounging and squirming.

TIA.

by Anonymousreply 142May 26, 2023 9:29 PM

WASHINGTON (AP) — Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen said Friday the projected debt ceiling deadline is extended to June 5, four days later than previously estimated.

by Anonymousreply 143May 26, 2023 10:23 PM

[quote]Both sides seem incompetent. Democrats want to increase the debt ceiling with no cuts...

Lord, STFU with your "both sides" gibberish!

Biden and Dems have cut the deficit by 1.7 TRILLION so far. Any of that count as a cut to you?

by Anonymousreply 144May 27, 2023 1:54 AM

[quote]Biden and Dems have cut the deficit by 1.7 TRILLION so far. Any of that count as a cut to you?

if you posted that disinformation on Twitter, I suppose you might get Community Notes.

[quote]Again, Biden claimed his administration "cut the deficit by more than $1.7 trillion." This figure appeared to come from comparing figures for 2020 ($3.13 trillion) and 2022 ($1.38 trillion). The difference between those two numbers is $1.75 trillion. So, why did the deficit fall from $3.13 trillion when former U.S. President Donald Trump was in office in 2020 to $1.38 trillion under Biden in 2022? According to the nonpartisan Committee for a Responsible Federal Budget, the drop in the deficit can be credited to "shrinking or expiring COVID relief." The data also projected that some of the economic changes that helped reduce the deficit in 2022 "will actually increase future deficits by over $1.5 trillion between 2023 and 2032."

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by Anonymousreply 145May 27, 2023 4:04 AM

Biden is not winning anything. He has no backbone.

by Anonymousreply 146May 27, 2023 4:07 AM

Thank you, r146, for *all* of the concern you've expressed in this thread.

by Anonymousreply 147May 27, 2023 4:11 AM

But Snopes is MAGA liars !!!

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by Anonymousreply 148May 27, 2023 4:11 AM

Ahem.

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by Anonymousreply 149May 28, 2023 2:08 AM

Now they have to get 218 votes in the House, including a majority of the GOP members.

by Anonymousreply 150May 28, 2023 3:42 AM

Kick the can down the road …whoo hoo

by Anonymousreply 151May 28, 2023 3:55 AM

I can't think of why those poll numbers are so bad for Biden. I mean...he's done a pretty good job. Not sure if it's for lack of research by voters or the administration not being vocal enough about their accomplishments. OR they think Biden is too old.

by Anonymousreply 152May 28, 2023 3:11 PM

I don’t think this deal is finished. Without serious alternatives, McCarthy need 15 votes to become Speaker. Republicans didn’t band together then, so I am not seeing it happening now on an issue they are passionate about. They love to pretend the budget can be balanced on the backs of poor people and bureaucrats.

If Democrats need to provide votes, they may extract some concessions. They’re getting nothing out of this “compromise” other than stopping Republicans from tanking the economy.

But Republicans are getting pretty thin gruel as well. Even by making tax fraud easier for rich cheats and forcing people to work for starvation-level food stamps, that is a small fraction of what they want.

Interesting week ahead.

by Anonymousreply 153May 28, 2023 4:07 PM

A couple Irish Americans from different parties compromised. Good enough.

by Anonymousreply 154May 28, 2023 4:12 PM

R153, they don’t need a lot of Republican votes. McCarthy got a huge amount of votes for speaker, just not a majority because Dems didn’t vote for him. Republicans actually do band together most of the time. Dems will vote for it, McCarthy doesn’t need that many Republicans to vote for it but they will. The last thing anyone wants is to tank the economy. These representatives have money they don’t want to lose either.

by Anonymousreply 155May 28, 2023 4:19 PM

Key Democrats crucial to putting a debt ceiling deal over the finish line were critical on Sunday of an agreement in principle that President Biden and Speaker Kevin McCarthy (R-Calif.) struck the night before to lift the debt limit and cap spending over the next two years.

They were not alone. Conservatives also knocked elements of the tentative deal, expressing their opposition using everything from vomiting emoji’s to likening it to a “turd-sandwich.”

House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries (D-N.Y.) was notably cagey about shoring up enough Democratic support to seal the deal. He said he expects there will be Democrats on board but admitted that he doesn’t know “what those numbers may ultimately look like.” He also hasn’t outright expressed support for the bill himself.

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by Anonymousreply 156May 28, 2023 5:46 PM

[quote]They’re getting nothing out of this “compromise” other than stopping Republicans from tanking the economy.

You should read and re-read what you wrote, over and over until you get it.

by Anonymousreply 157May 29, 2023 12:36 AM

Thank you, Gov. Cuomo!

by Anonymousreply 158May 29, 2023 1:59 AM

R157, r153 asked Mrs. Lincoln, "Other than that, how was the play?"

by Anonymousreply 159May 29, 2023 2:53 AM

R157, plus they removed the budget as a election issue for Dems. The Republicans only got cruel work concessions and a 10 Billion dollar cut to IRS funding. Oh, and you are crazy if you think that the IRS could spend 80 Billion dollars in two years on staff. When Dems take the Trifecta in 2024, all of this crap can be reinstated. The Republicans want everyone to forget the Reagan Tax Cuts, The Bush Tax Cuts and the Trump Tax Cuts.. That's all Republicans fear, paying their fair share.

by Anonymousreply 160May 29, 2023 3:02 AM

The trifecta? I assume you are neglecting the Supreme Court, where Democrats need a few well-timed retirements or deaths in order to take control. The presidency looks cautiously safe, but the landscape for the Senate and House both favor Republicans. Americans may favor Democratic policies, but it will take a lot of tilt for the political system to reflect that.

by Anonymousreply 161May 29, 2023 3:09 AM

Also, the budget is on the table again on Sept 30, when we will face a shutdown. Not a default, but still another opportunity to roll things back.

by Anonymousreply 162May 29, 2023 3:12 AM

Also, If Biden played the 14th Amendment card he still would have to battle over the Budget later in the year. All done at once. Biden is playing the game for the election. The Republicans, who have NO more levers of power to pull, have no idea how giving Democrats a clear path to 2024 will harm them. Biden was masterful.

by Anonymousreply 163May 29, 2023 3:14 AM

[quote]The Republicans only got cruel work concessions

You're repeating something you saw or heard someone else say. There's nothing cruel about a work requirement for able-bodied adults who are of working age with no dependents. There are even exemptions beyond those criteria. If that is "cruel", then any work for pay would have to be labeled as "cruel". It's only cruel in the bizarro world.

by Anonymousreply 164May 29, 2023 3:37 AM

r162, the budget was done here. What do you think all those concessions were?

by Anonymousreply 165May 29, 2023 4:46 AM

[quote]Now they have to get 218 votes in the House, including a majority of the GOP members.

Huh?

The bill just needs 218 votes, a majority of members. It doesn't matter which party they're from at all.

by Anonymousreply 166May 29, 2023 5:28 AM

Dark Brandon.

by Anonymousreply 167May 29, 2023 10:08 AM

R166, the Hastert Rule, which still unofficially governs the Republicans when they’re in charge of the House, means no House bill can come up for a vote that doesn’t have at least a majority of voting GOP members voting aye.

by Anonymousreply 168May 29, 2023 10:42 AM

Another big win for Manchin

The text of the debt ceiling bill released on Sunday would approve all the remaining permits to complete the stalled Mountain Valley Pipeline, delivering a big win for West Virginia Sens. Joe Manchin and Shelley Moore Capito.

But the backing of the pipeline that would deliver gas from West Virginia into the Southeast is sure to set off bitter complaints from the environmental groups that have fought its construction for years and turned the project into a symbol of their struggle against fossil fuels.

Manchin hailed the bill’s language, saying finishing the pipeline would lower energy costs for the United States and West Virginia.

“I am proud to have fought for this critical project and to have secured the bipartisan support necessary to get it across the finish line,” he said in a statement.

“After working with Speaker McCarthy and reiterating what completing the Mountain Valley Pipeline would mean for American jobs and domestic energy production, I am thrilled it is included in the debt ceiling package that avoids default,” Capito, a Republican, said in a statement. “Despite delay after delay, we continued to fight to get this critical natural gas pipeline up and running, and its inclusion in this deal is a significant victory for the future of West Virginia.”

The project has won support from the White House, which argues the controversial project is needed for U.S. energy security. Its approval comes after the approval of the Willow oil project in Alaska, which activists have said undercuts the Biden administration’s climate promises.

Including the project in the debt bill came as a surprise that wasn’t revealed by either negotiating side until the release of the bill text Sunday night.

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by Anonymousreply 169May 29, 2023 10:48 AM

Great, R169! Maybe that will help Manchin overcome great odds & keep his Senate seat. Control of the Senate could well come down to that.

by Anonymousreply 170May 29, 2023 10:53 AM

R165, this is not the actual budget bill. This is an agreement to lift the debt ceiling for two years. If Republicans have the will, they can hold the government operations hostage, just not the entire economy.

In 2011, the Republicans also held the country hostage over the debt ceiling. They extracted a framework that would be enforced by automatic cuts. However, this did not actually write the legislation to fund the government. There were five continuing resolutions in 2011 (FY2022). We then got a lengthy shutdown in 2013.

by Anonymousreply 171May 29, 2023 11:22 AM

This thread did not age well.

by Anonymousreply 172June 7, 2023 10:15 PM
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