Old California Up To Their Necks

Descendants of Spanish Land Grant families. When I was at Harvard School in Los Angeles, several of my fellow students were members of these families. In many cases, they had Anglo surnames. In the nineteenth century, many of the wealthy land owning families had many more daughters than sons. Th

R1 Accidentally posted before finishing. The many daughters often married New England Yankees. Pio Pico, who was the richest man in California and who lived in Los Angeles, has many descendants in the LA are, and they still own vast swathes of land. Incidentally, these descendants of old Californios have an informal group known as Los Pobladores de Los Angeles. They sneer at San Franciscans as nouveau riche gold miners.

Pio Pico of old Los Angeles.

Years ago, the LA Times had an article about Spanish families who still own lots of land in California. Some of these people still live in Spain. These people are Spanish, not Mexican.

Carlotta Valdes springs to mind

My parents had several friends who were members of the Bandini family. They were descendants of one of the early land owning families. They had a huge cattle business that stretched back to the early nineteenth century. With all those cows, they had a lot of cow shit, which was sold as fertilizer. When I was a boy, there were television ads for Bandini fertilizer. The ad was humorous and ended with a sultry woman’s voice saying “Bandini is the word for fertilizer.” Always cracked me up.

The actor John Gavin was a descendant of a Californio family. His birth name was Juan Vincent Apablasa. As a genuine descendant of an early California family, he was accepted as a member of the extremely snobbish Los Angeles Country Club. Town & Country magazine called it one of the three snobbiest country clubs in the US. My family, who were in the film business, would never have been permitted to be members there. The only other movie person who qualified for membership in the LA CC was Robert Stack.

R6 The American premiere of Puccini’s La Boheme was in Los Angeles in 1897. One of the Bandini family members my parents knew showed us a program from that performance that her family had kept.

Dickie, you have interesting stories - thank you for sharing.

The Ortegas were people my grandmother knew and I heard them referred to as the first settlers of the region. They had (may still have) a very beautiful old farmhouse part of which was adobe on the edge of what used to be the orange orchard country.

There's really a myth of "Old California" money in the Los Angeles region that's really not teue--it was mostly created by Johnston McCulley in his Zorro" books in order to set something in Los Angeles and retain "Old World Glamor" for it.

While there was indeed an Alta California region settled by Spaniards, and they did give land grants to settling Spanish families, but by the time the movie industry moved from new Jersey to the Los Angeles area in the 1910s, almost none of those families were extremely wealthy--if they were around, they were mostly known only because they had given their names fifty to seventy years earlier to streets and districts. But because of the continued popularity of Zorro, the myth perpetuated itself into diverse works like "Mildred Pierce" (Monty Barragon's family) and "Dead Ringer" (Margaret de Lorca's in-laws).

Another of my family’s friends who traced back to a Spanish Land Grant family was George Harmon Scott. I can’t remember the Spanish name the family was related to. We lived in Bel-Air. My mother was a gardener and we had a two acre portion of our yard that wasn’t landscaped. My mother wanted to develop it with drought-tolerant plants, especially bulbous plants from the Mediterranean. A nursery that specialized in these bulbs was Burkard’s, located in Pasadena. My mother went there a number of times and became friendly with an employee named “George.” She told him what her project was and he was very interested in helping her. At this point, my mother realized George was George Harmon Scott, who was also the garden editor of the LA Times. She invited him to our house for lunch and to look at the area she wanted to replant. At lunch, Scott sprung another surprise: his family’s ranch was sold and redeveloped as Bel-Air. He grew up on the 600+ acres that became Bel-Air and could describe the area intimately. My brother and I were able to impress him with knowing the location of several mineral springs we had discovered in the area but off our property (in those days, Bel-Air wasn’t fenced and gated the way it is now and there weren’t any security cameras spying on little boys).

Thanks for all the responses.

DeLorca, de Lorca or Lorca are Spanish surnames. Margaret DeLorca and or at least her husband must have been Catholic going by the opening funeral/burial scene (all those nuns and other RC religious in attendance).

It all fits now as to who (or it whom?) Margaret DeLorca was referring to about "old California".

Ohhh John Gavin!

The nights and days I've passed dreaming of that man doing unspeakable things to me.

Yes, John Gavin was a big California republican, but I'd still have him.

R12

Thank you!

Things you learn on DL.

Threads like this are streets better than what often passes for conversation on DL.

What a time it must have been to be alive in California. Cannot imagine what it was like growing up on a 600 some odd acre ranch in what is now Los Angeles.

Gavin was into bald chicks...

I like this thread. For any of you who have seen the movie Babylon, there’s something really wrong with the opening scene (besides forgetting the hyphen in Bel-Air). Except for the large house where the party/orgy takes place, the land is shown as vacant and barren, almost like a desert. Today’s Bel-Air is lush with imported water, but it originally was fairly dense oak forest. Many native plants die with too much water, but, fortunately, the coastal California oak can tolerate extra water. Babylon should have shown a landscape full of oak trees. One of the things that my brother and I remember well is George Harmon Scott telling us that the relatively rare native California peony was abundant on his family’s ranch. There was a slope near our house where these peonies grew when I was a boy, but they’re now gone. Too much water, I guess. I remember Scott saying that if he were younger, he would attempt to hybridize the California peony with a peony that’s native to Greece.

California Peony does not need abundant amounts of water, indeed too much will kill the thing.

Bel-Air hotel is largely built upon former grounds of Alphonso Bell's estate.

We only visited the Ortega place once, but I have vivid memories of it - I think I was about six. There were tall earthen jars of olive oil (?) that were as big as I was - and someone gave all of us olives to taste and the adults laughed when we kids spit them out (they were ferociously bitter, at least to me). I also remember seeing the depth of the adobe walls - maybe three feet? But the upper story was of wood and the whole house had been shingled in approximation of an Edwardian colonial revival house.

IIRC, the only thing the family had sent in was fish and grain - everything else they farmed or grew themselves.

There was also an allee of palm trees that had ivy trained up their trunks.

Dear Dickie,

Please stop with the Harvard and Westlake references…they make you sound like just another WEST LA jerk. There were too many of your type at Berkeley, easy to suss out among the crowd Greek houses along Piedmont Ave.

R22 Okay. By the way, I’ve been to Inglewood. It’s lovely.

👍🏼😘

Inglewood

R25 what’s your point?

Ohh yes! Didn't get much "old California" than grave side service for late Mr. DeLorca.

Rosedale cemetery (name seen on sign as Eddie gets off bus and enters gates) is located in Pico-Union area of LA.

Whites largely fled Pico-Union in years after WWII. Area is now largely Salvadoran and Guatemalan.

For a moment the subject was Inglewood, r26.

I love this- any other old movies/shows/books that reference Old/Spanish California?

I saw Billy Jack at the Fox theater on Market Street. At one time , Inglewood had the only Dunkin’ Donuts in the South Bay/Airport area. And The Forum was Fabulous ;)

If you are more interested in California history, Kevin Starr is the place to start. Thorough, yet accessible to you folks from beyond the Sierra Nevada.

R26 I really hated that the old Hollywood Park racetrack was demolished, but I have to say that the new SoFi is even better. I’ve actually never been in a stadium that’s as stylish and comfortable and has such good sight-lines as SoFi. Congratulations to Inglewood for making it happen.

Goin’ back to 1834

R15 Yes, John Gavin was a Republican. But, years ago, many movie people were. My father and grandfather were in the film business, and they were staunch Democrats. They had many Republican friends, but Republicans in those days weren’t the nasty type we have today. Socially, they were typically fairly liberal. Those who weren’t had the good manners to keep their opinions to themselves when they were guests at our house. Everything was much more civilized in those days.

John Gavin’s son went to Loyola HS, brother school to both Marymount HS and Marlborough School.

Sorry—but Los Ángeles in the fifties and early sixties was ground zero for the John Birch Society, and fully of many other bigots and racists. For good reason L.A. was known as the Birmingham of the West.

R37 Town & Country magazine called Marlborough School the best girls’ school in the US. They used to have a reputation for not admitting any girls whose parents were in the movie industry.

Marlborough was the go to for casting female roles in school plays at the all-boys schools.

Haughty Marlborough School.

R29 There used to be a Welsh church in the Pico-Union neighborhood. It was there from 1888 to 2012. My mother was partly of Welsh ancestry, so our whole family went to services there a couple of times, just for the hell of it. Some of the service was actually in Welsh.

The first rank old California families:

Alvarado

Arguello

Avila

Bandini

Carrillo

Castro

Noriega

Ortega

Pacheco

Peralta

Pico

Sepulveda

Vallejo

Yorba

R42 I’m not going to name-drop anymore, but I used to know someone who was in John Ford’s How Green Was My Valley. The choral singing in Welsh that’s heard in the film was performed by the choir of the LA Welsh church. Some of the church members were also extras in the film.

R43 Very interesting. Every single name would be recognizable by Angelenos as a street or neighborhood.

*

R6 Bandini Fertilizer is still being sold.

That list of family names is a mix of northern and southern “Californios.”

Back in the early days of California statehood, state and local governments were comprised of a mix of Anglo-Americans and non-English speaking Californios, most of whom descended or were related to the wealthy land holding families of old Alta California. Meetings were conducted in English and Spanish, which was the norm for many years AND was written into the State's first constitution.

José Cristóbal Aguilar served three terms as Mayor of Los Angeles and served several terms on the LA Common Council, the precursor of the LA City Council. Aguilar was married to Maria Dolores Yorba of the prominent Yorba family, who possessed vast land holdings in the Santa Ana Valley. Aguilar didn't speak a lick of English and lost his last re-election bid in 1872 to J R Toberman, who made an issue of Aguilar's "poor English." This was a sign of things to come, for it would be another 133 years before another Latino would become Mayor of Los Angeles.

The real deal on L.A.

The dark side of the dream…

“…it would be another 133 years before another Latino would become Mayor of Los Angeles.”

…and that Latino did not speak Spanish…

Linky stinky at R49. Let's try this again.

José Cristóbal Aguilar. Would you?

R37 Alfred Hitchcock’s daughter attended Marymount High School.

I hate to say it, but the elder Karkrashians also went to Marymount.

My sister was aceptes there, but they didn’t give enough financial aid to swing it for my folks…she was bitterly disappointed—stuck with the local h.s., but still landed at Cal where did did quite well.

* accepted

* she did

R55 Marymount has a very pretty campus. I can’t imagine the trashy Kardashians there.

Their father, at one point, was a well-regarded attorney.

R42

Your stories are enthralling - keep them coming!

R59 Thanks. I have lots of stories and love reminiscing, but DL isn’t the best place for that. My memories come across as name-dropping, especially since my family was in the film business. One Bel-Air related memory involves name-dropping, but not of movie people. My grandfather took Harold Acton and Evelyn Waugh to lunch at the Hotel Bel-Air in the 1940s. Waugh caused a small scene when he said his asparagus wasn’t fresh. Interesting?

When my grandfather was young, he knew William Andrews Clark. Clark wasn’t from an early Los Angeles family, but he settled in LA. He was fabulously wealthy from a Montana copper fortune. Though he married two women, he was gay and had a male lover. I’m not sure, but I think my grandfather said the boy was the son of his chauffeur. My grandfather said he thought Clark wanted to audition him for a role in Clark’s life. That would have been interesting!

Clark formed one of the world’s largest collections of English literary manuscripts. He was a collector rival of J. Paul Getty, Henry Huntington, and Henry Folger. He collected manuscripts dating from the 15th century. His collection is especially strong in the works of John Dryden and Oscar Wilde. Clark bought many of Wilde’s letters directly from Wilde’s son. The most famous painting of Oscar Wilde is a full-length portrait that Clark bought. This entire huge collection is in the Clark Library in Los Angeles. It’s now administered by UCLA. The library building is based on Christopher Wren’s design for Hampton Court. The numerous male nude frescoes inside all have the face of Clark’s boyfriend. Anyone can visit the library with an advance reservation.

Clark Library.

William Andrew Clark’s sister, Huguette, was weird in her own right.

Here’s a picture of Clark’s boyfriend. Looks hot.

R60, that boyfriend was Harrison Post.

OP Are you referring to the Bette Davis character in Dead Ringer?

Name drop away!

Two interesting California rancheros were the Temple brothers, Juan and Francisco, from Reading, Massachusetts.

Juan was born Jonathan Temple in Reading, Mass, in 1796, and migrated to Pueblo San Diego in Mexican Alta California in 1827. While there, he was baptized a Roman Catholic, became a Mexican citizen, and hispanized his name to Juan. He moved to Pueblo de Los Angeles, opened a general store, and married Rafaela Cota from the wealthy Cota-Nieto-Yorba family. He purchased Rancho Los Cerritos from Rafaela's family, went into the cattle ranch business and became one of the largest and wealthiest landowners in Los Angeles County. He also served a term on the LA Common Council. After the Great Flood of 1861-62 and a severe drought in 1862-65 that nearly wiped out the cattle industry, Temple sold Rancho Los Cerritos for $20,000 and moved to San Francisco.

Juan's younger brother Francisco, was born Pliny Fisk Temple in Reading, in 1822. He came out west to meet his brother Juan for the very first time (they were 26 years apart), and took a job as a clerk in Juan's general store. He too was baptized in the Catholic faith and adopted the Christian name of Francisco. He married Antonia Margarita Workman, daughter of William Workman, who gave the couple Rancho La Merced (present day Montebello and Monterey Park), which they turned into lucrative vineyards and fruit gardens. Temple and Workman embarked on many successful real estate, land development, banking, and railroad ventures, but poor financial manangement and the collapse of California's banking industry eventually bankrupted the pair, causing Workman to commit suicide and Temple eventually dying at 58, after a series of strokes. Temple also served as LA City Treasurer and on the LA Board of Supervisors.

R64 That’s very interesting about Harrison Post. I actually bought that book about him a couple of years ago when it came out, but I haven’t read it yet. Must do! What’s fascinating for me is the description of Harrison Post as dark and with a “Semitic cast.” My grandfather was Jewish, with dark hair. Maybe that’s what William Andrews Clark liked and why he made a pass at my grandfather, if that’s what he was doing. History is so much fun.

Harrison looks like Sal Mineo could have played him. Or twenty years later, the young RDJ.

Picked up book "Empty Mansions" out of our building's recycle area last year. Haven't had time to finish reading the thing but it does touch on Huguette Marcelle Clark's gay half brother William Andrews Clark Jr.

Bit more about the sister's Santa Barbara estate.

R71 If Harry and Meghan want more privacy but want to stay in the Santa Barbara area, perhaps they could buy Bellosguardo.

Dolores Bandini Johnson

Arcadia Bandini donated land that became Santa Monica's Palisades Park.

R74 Some of the Bandini family members my parents knew had Bandini as their surname, but some had Anglo names. One of the family lived on Woodacres Road in Santa Monica. Their house was on the rim of Santa Monica Canyon and looked out over the Riviera Country Club, which was on former Bandini land. In the early evening, deer came up the canyon and wandered around in their backyard. The deer seemed as tame and used to people as were the deer in our neighborhood.

I remember another family member lived in Rustic Canyon in or near Pacific Palisades.

Arcadia Bandini de Stearns Baker was only 14, when her father, Juan Bandini, married her off to his business associate and political ally, Abel Stearns, who was nearly 30 years Arcadia's senior. Stearns was the largest and richest landowner in Southern California. He was also perhaps the ugliest. His nickname was Caro del Caballo (Horseface).

R76 Abel Stearns wasn’t THAT bad looking. Besides, he was rich.

R77

That's a portrait not an actual photograph. Artists down through history have been quite generous with images of those who commissioned their talent.

There's a photo of him in a Pasadena Star-News article but you need a subscription. Ugly.

R76 I heard his nickname was Polla de Caballo, “Horse cock”. Lucky Arcadia! He had a big cock AND he was rich.

I just finished watching Dead Ringer. I hadn’t seen it in years. It’s held up very well and has good pacing. I’d completely forgotten Jean Hagen was in it. Her part was way too brief, but she’s always a delight. The same goes for Estelle Winwood. The DeLorca house is actually Greystone in Beverly Hills. It was built by the Doheny family as a country house that they could visit from their mansion in Chester Place, near Exposition Park and USC.

R76 Arcadia Bandini was no great beauty, but I guess she was more presentable than Abel Stearns. She may have married an ugly old guy but the fortune he left her made her estate to be the most valuable in California at the time. It’s no wonder that the current descendants of this family are among the richest in Los Angeles.

R82 Looks like a young Roseanne.

R80 I think that might refer to his face being as ugly as a horse's cock.

Arcadia's second husband, Col Robert S. Baker owned Rancho San Vicente y Santa Mónica, and when he died, his money and estate went to Arcadia, thereby expanding Arcadia's holdings. That lucky bitch.

Arcadia didn’t like exposed buttons on her blouses so she had a number of diamond pins made to conceal the buttons.

Found a massive photo set of all the Old California's buildings, and town. If you're into that sort of thing, there is A LOT to look at. Shame the tore down The Baker Block to build a highway.

Calvary Cemetery on Los Angeles’ east side is where a lot of the old Californios were buried. There are also the tombs of many Hollywood stars, directors, and other film industry figures who were Catholic. Although the current cemetery was only developed in 1896, it contains the graves of many people who died in the preceding century. Apparently these older graves were transferred from older cemeteries that were originally closer to the former heart of Los Angeles.

The Bandini family were originally from Italy. They moved to Spain several hundred years ago. Some of the family later relocated to New Spain, which eventually became California.

R88 Many members of the Doheny family are buried at Calvary Cemetery, but not Ned Doheny who was murdered in 1929. He’s apparently buried at a non- sectarian cemetery in Los Angeles, alongside his “secretary” and presumed lover, Hugh Plunkett. Plunkett died the same night as Doheny in Greystone Mansion in Beverly Hills. Both were shot in the head. The official story is that Plunkett murdered Doheny and then committed suicide. Many people believe it was a double murder, committed by Doheny’s wife.

Has there ever been a discussion of this incident on DL? Anyone interested?

I'm interested, r90. I'd love some actual gay gossip, even if it's 100 years old.

Here’s a good summary of the Doheny murder and scandal. It may diminish the gay angle in the relationship between young Doheny and Hugh Plunkett. However, after all these years, it’s probably impossible to determine the truth of this matter.

This is a link to the Greystone website. There’s a good video of the house and grounds.

R12/Dickie Greenleaf: If you're not familiar with it, there's a website that I think you might enjoy called Historic Aerials. If you enter your childhood address in the viewer, you'll be able to see aerial views of Bel Air dating back to 1947. It is a trip!! (I found my grandparents house!) The website doesn't have for views for every year -- it skips from 1947 to 1952 to 1954 to 1964, and so forth -- but still, it's pretty interesting. For example, in the 1964 view, the "burn scar" from the 1961 fire is very obvious.

R94 Hi Westlake Girl - Thank you for the link to Historic Aerials. I actually knew about the site and have used it often to see how various areas of LA have changed. My childhood home is on the western portion of Bellagio, not too far inside the West Gate. George Harmon Scott, whose family’s ranch was redeveloped as Bel-Air, said their house was at the eastern end, near what is now Beverly Glen Boulevard. Our house was leased to an Iranian-Jewish couple for a little over 23 years. They’ve now moved to a smaller place and my brother and I moved back into the house in the past year. I’m gay and single and he’s straight and newly divorced. In a sense, we’re regressing to our childhood. However, the way Bel-Air has changed, with all the tall hedges and security devices, things won’t be the same as in our youth.

More memories of George Harmon Scott: He said he had a “shack at the beach.” He said his parents built it, when “everybody had a shack at the beach.” His was in Redondo Beach, and it was the last genuine shack there. This was around 1970, by which time the Southern California coast had been developed with high-end houses.

Fascinating thread.

Many names on r43’s list are commemorated by San Francisco streets - Castro of course, but also several of the alphabetical avenues in the Sunset and Richmond: Noriega, Ortega, Pacheco, Yorba.

I used to date a man named Rick Yorba (RIP) who told me he was related to the Yorba Linda Yorbas.

R97 Richard Nixon was born in Yorba Linda. Yorba Linda was once part of Los Angeles County, and only became Orange County in 1889. The Yorba family apparently still own a lot of land in the area. In 1858, the Yorba family donated a large tract of land to the Archdiocese of Los Angeles.

The reason that so many of the powerful landowners of California were in the Los Angeles area is that the Mexican Congress made Los Angeles the capital of Alta California in 1835.

[quote]I hate to say it, but the elder Karkrashians also went to Marymount.

Mariska Oleeebia Hargitay and Steve Garvey's eldest daughters (with first wife Cyndy) went to Marymount.

A friend of mine coached volleyball for one of Marymount's rivals while Garvey's daughters were there. One or both of them (I can't recall now) played volleyball. It was after the divorce from Cyndy, when his life was a very public hot-mess because he couldn't keep his dick in his pants (or at least use a condom). She told me that Steve would come to the volleyball matches & cheer for his girls, like any proud Dad...but they wouldn't even look at him or speak to him, when he approached them after the matches. They'd just turn & walk away, leaving him looking around awkwardly (because of course EVERYONE recognized him).

While it was a mess of his own making (and who knows what else was going on), she couldn't help but feel a little bit sorry for the guy...or just found it all very sad. He was trying, but they wanted NOTHING to do with him.

This title reads like a Joan Didion essay.

One of my mother’s gardening friends was a descendant of Jessie Benton Fremont, whose father was Senator Thomas Hart Benton (of “manifest destiny” fame). Her husband was John C. Fremont, who signed the Treaty of Cahuenga in 1847, which eventually led to California becoming a US state. The location of the signing of the treaty was in an area north of today’s Hollywood.

The family later developed the high-end Fremont Place, just south of Hancock Park. Fremont Place may be the first gated community in Los Angeles.

The Fremont family’s history doesn’t go quite as far back as the Spanish Land Grant families, but it’s old enough.

We vote idiotic has-been actors into office in order to live.

R92 It’s interesting that after Hugh Plunkett killed Ned Doheny with a shot to the head, he managed to then commit suicide by shooting himself in back of his own head.

Cool, Dickie/R95! My grandparents lived on the western edge of Bel Air -- Casiano Road, overlooking the Sepulveda Pass. (they watched the construction of the 405 from their backyard). Their house survived the Bel Air fire, barely. The fire's southern progression stopped about 6-7 houses up Casiano Road from them. When my grandparents evacuated, they were convinced the house was a goner -- and so was their cat, Sam (they couldn't find him before leaving). When they were allowed back into the neighborhood, they were shocked to find their house still standing. And Sam was waiting for them on the front doorstep, yowling up a storm!

I love these kinds of threads on DL!

Interesting and (mostly) non-bitchy!

I have a painting of Sam the Cat (because grandma painted). He lived another 13-14 years after the Bel Air fire.

Please share the painting of Sam R107!

R105 Great that Sam the Cat survived the fire in Bel-Air and that your grandparents’ house also did. I was born just a few months before the fire occurred, so I obviously have no memory of it. But I certainly have memories of hearing about it. Our house also survived. My family spent the night of the fire with my grandparents, who lived just a bit to the east on Delfern Drive. That’s in Holmby Hills, so they really weren’t that far away from the fire area.

R106 This is the kind of thread that I also like. While a lot of the bitchy comments on DL can be funny, I get a bit tired of reading them. I love reminiscing about things I remember from my youth, but as I said previously, a lot of the memories come across as mere name-dropping since my family was in the film business, including me. So I lay off with that kind of comments.

I previously asked if there was any interest in discussing the murder of Ned Doheny. I’m not going to start a thread on that since I think there’s not much to add to such an old scandal.

Something else I’m considering is starting a thread on reminiscences from earlier decades in Los Angeles. Such as memories of the late, lamented Wil Wright’s ice cream! Or Jurgensen’s grocery store. Or Chasen’s, or Perino’s, or the original La Scala. Plus Kavkaz, the Aware Inn, or Joan Blondel’s drive-in hamburger joint on Wilshire……

R109 If you were born around 1960-61 you must barely remember some of those things?

R110 Yes, I have a good memory, but a number of the places I mentioned I barely remember. In some cases, what I remember is just hearing about some things.

R110, r111 I think I was around 10 years old when Wil Wright’s closed. One of their ice cream flavors was called Nesselrode Bula. My brother and I thought that was a funny-sounding name. We finally ordered it once and didn’t care for it. It was full of candied chestnuts and fruit. The founder of the business, Wil Wright, was found beaten to death in his Hollywood Hills home. It was thought that he was killed by a hustler he picked up.

Wilbur Loos "Wil" Wright, Jr was a very attractive man.

Nesselrode Bula, someone liked it!

History of Wil Wright's

Wilbur Wright, Jr followed his high school pal Tyrone Power Jr., out to California.

Hugh Plunkett and Ned Doheny where murdered, but whether suicide was involved remains a mystery to us all.

LE were not summoned to the mansion until three hours after shot were fired. Both bodies appeared to have been moved. One was still holding a lit cigarette in his fingers, the other holding a gun that was surprisingly still quite warm (many suspect it was placed in an oven).

Bottom line is by time LE arrived much of the murder scene had been tampered with either intentionally or not. Given period of time when things occurred money, social status and power coupled with often healthy doses of police (and or district attorney) corruption and negligence meant there never was going to be the promised "full investigation".

Hugh Plunkett's family didn't make a stink. Ned Doheny's relict remarried rather quicker than was right to a close friend of family, life went on. Old man Doheny was spared the scandal of Teapot Dome scandal sending his son or himself to prison, that's something I suppose. But Old Man Doheny was never the same afterwards so perhaps there is some sort of just rewards.

Main telling thing is Ned Doheny, Jr. wasn't buried in family grave, but over at Calvary. Why?

We mainly went to the Wil Wright’s in Sunset Plaza, since that was close to home. We also went to the South Beverly Drive location because my mother often had errands in that area. I have a vague memory of another location on Santa Monica Blvd. in WeHo.

R117 Perhaps I’m misreading what you wrote, but Ned Doheny wasn’t buried at Calvary Cemetery. That’s a Catholic cemetery where most of the Doheny family are buried. Ned was buried at Forest Lawn, which is non-sectarian. Hugh Plunkett is also buried there. I haven’t seen the graves, but I think I read they’re buried next to each other.

R118

Got it backwards, thanks for correcting.

Unless deemed insane (thus not in right mind when committing a mortal sin), normally suicides aren't interred on or in RC consecrated ground. But lord knows many have been given passes on that and other scores over many years. Otherwise interring Hugh Plunkett at Forest Lawn (non-sectarian) makes sense as a murderer and (supposed) suicide. But that does not explain why Ned Doheny, Jr. wasn't buried with his family, he was the victim.

It is the interring of both men so close that feeds rumors there was some sort of vice in their relationship. This though most who knew the men swear up and down not.

Speaking of "old" California there seems to have been an uptick of "homosexual murders" in Hollywood and West Hollywood area during 1980's, good number were never and remain unsolved.

R119 Yes, it always puzzled me that Ned Doheny wasn’t buried in the family plot. The Doheny family was so concerned with their image and seemed to do anything to avoid scandal that you’d think they would have buried Ned at Calvary Cemetery. Banishing him to another location would only increase rumors about his sexuality and death. It’s conceivable that whoever was in charge in the family was so genuinely religious that they couldn’t be hypocritical and have a fully Roman Catholic burial.

Another thing that’s always puzzled me is that when growing up in Los Angeles, I was aware of the Doheny family’s wealth and prominence, but I never remember any particular family member having a public role in anything. It was as if the Dohenys didn’t exist. The only Doheny I knew of was mentioned a number of times in a local gardening newsletter my mother read. This Doheny lived in San Marino or Pasadena and occasionally provided comments on her garden..

R108: Here's the painting of Sam . I was 6-7 years old when he died (he was 18) . I don't remember Sam being quite as FAT as Grandma depicted him...but hey, artistic license/limitations, and all that. I'm just thrilled to have something that my grandmother painted. And it's Sam! (whom I loved)

That is a beautiful painting. Your grandmother was very talented. It’s nice that Sam was commemorated this way. He lived a good long life.

Thanks, Dickie. That's very sweet.

R112 My brother and I are sitting at home and watching Vincente Minelli’s Two Weeks In Another Town. We’ve paused the movie so I could make this comment. In the film, Kirk Douglas isn’t satisfied with a dubbing actress’s emotion. He tells her to think of something wonderful, such as having a Wil Wright’s banana split on the Sunset Strip. That works and improves her delivery.

Earlier, my brother remembered that after Wil Wright’s was sold, the new owners tried to expand its appeal by creating a character called Captain Wright. They had an extremely old, extremely scrawny man dressed in a Superman-type costume representing Captain Wright. This was very ill-judged and condescending to elderly people. It’s no wonder the new owners weren’t successful.

I visited the Old Plaza today, which is near the site of the original founding of Los Angeles. There’s a statue of Felipe de Neve, the first governor of New Spain. He looks kind of hunky and sexy. There’s also a statue of King Carlos III of Spain, looking rather foppish. There used to be a statue of Junipero Serra, but it was pulled down by protesters a few years ago because of his part in the oppression of the indigenous people in the area.

Felipe de Neve statue.

R127 Felipe uses a picture of the statue in his Grindr ad, but I’ve attached a more recent photo of him.