Why would anyone want to be a police officer or teacher now?

Optimism.

you're not wrong, OP.

Both jobs are dangerous, although the risk is going to very considerably. A place like where I live with ultra low crime rate and high achieving, well-mannered kids has risk next to zero. Urban hellholes would be on the other side of the spectrum.

The public makes things even worse for cops. In order to do their jobs well and to protect themselves, they need to hurt people, but when they do, there is huge uproar.

If you're an authoritarian prick, police work still looks attractive and is the safest space to exact all your worst instincts.

The question is, if you're a decent, caring, law-abiding, empathetic, fully evolved person, why THE FUCK would you want to be a police officer? To change the world? To effect change from the inside?

Yeah, that's always worked so well.

I have a lot of cops in my family; New York City/Long Island blue-collar. They're all sociopaths.

[quote] The question is, if you're a decent, caring, law-abiding, empathetic, fully evolved person, why THE FUCK would you want to be a police officer? To change the world? To effect change from the inside?

If you are talking about people who don’t like to get their hands dirty and and aren’t able to be rough when necessary, I agree.

Depends where, OP. A policeman or teacher in someplace like Newport Beach would be a dream job.

My sister lives in an upper middle class suburban time with great schools and no crime (I read the town’s crime blotter for chuckles. A typical post will be “Man in stopped car on side of road said he was lost so police showed him the way to his destination…).

Teachers get paid 6 figures at least. Police get paid well too and don’t deal with much crime. Sounds like good positions to me!

[quote]Depends where, OP. A policeman or teacher in someplace like Newport Beach would be a dream job.

and soon enough, we'll see a bewildered neighbor in front of a microphone saying "we never thought something like this could happen here"

Groomers and Nazis!

Authority positions

It’s a dirty secret no one tells about, but elementary teaching positions attract bullies.

Same for cops, but I guess we knew that.

Let me ask why anyone would want to be a cube inhabitant in a city like New York? What kind of people does it attract? It seems to be the height of drudgery.

Six figures ain't what it used to be, R7. I live in a city of 250,000 and our local school district pay tops out at $115,000 after twenty years and with a masters degree. Starting salary for a new teacher here is $43,800. That's below the poverty line for a single person or a couple. Average home here costs just under $900,000 -and a 70-year-old tract home can be north of a million. The school district has openings at every grade level and in every department. No takers for most of them...

A friend of mine, her daughter’s school had career day and a police officer came to speak and parents were outraged. Police officers are evil now. Police officers and the military have been demonized to the point that it’s become impossible to recruit people. God forbid if we have an international terror attack or a war is declared.

[quote] It’s a dirty secret no one tells about, but elementary teaching positions attract bullies.

Let me guess, a teacher didn’t like you and now there’s a dirty little secret that you’ve been let in on. Nice try, dear.

[quote] My sister lives in an upper middle class suburban time with great schools and no crime (I read the town’s crime blotter for chuckles. A typical post will be “Man in stopped car on side of road said he was lost so police showed him the way to his destination…).

Oh, dear, and where is this?

Anyone working in public service walks through a minefield every day and faces a career of dysfunction and burn-out. I guess I feel worst for flight attendants because they are trapped in a narrow cylinder high above the earth and have no escape options. At least teachers get decent (well-deserved) vacations, and cops get to call back-up...

There's a nature vs. nurture argument to be had about police. I think there are higher percentage of just horrible people in the police force - that's probably 15%.

But it's the training and the culture that creates the others.

Don't think there was every some 'golden' age of policing. It's ALWAYS had racists, liars, lawbreakers, abusers and general dicks since the very beginning.

For teachers - things have really become that much worse. Bring back corporal punishment - we've gone way too far in this not hitting kids thing.

Cops are all psychopathic bullies, so your handwringing is a bit misplaced, OP.

They're actually preening, image-obsessed narcissists. Not far off, though.

Only thing I can imagine if the promise of healthcare and a pension for life after 20 or so years.

R7 - I’ve been a public school teacher for nearly 30 and I make nowhere near six figures.

R21 - no promise of lifelong healthcare, no maternity/paternity leave, etc. as a teacher (at least where I’ve been employed).

It's a combination of the negative rap cops get because of those cops who act badly with impunity, along with the many new lax laws on crimes.

[quote] Cops are all psychopathic bullies

And you’d be the first one dialing them if someone was breaking into your house.

R21 I am sorry, you deserve it.

Working with youth and influencing the future generation. Union protection. Summers off. Reasonable work hours so you can have a kid but don’t have to hire a nanny. (For teaching)

I think that the biggest problem with law enforcement is cowardice. If they didn't suffer from huge amounts of that, there would be a lot less shootings. Most right-wingers are huge cowards, trying to compensate with the stupid open carry and concealed carry. I look at those fat tards and think, I could empty an entire clip into them before they would have their fat paws in place.

One early morning just after sun-up I woke up hearing noise in the next room, so I get out of bed, walk down the hall, and stand in the doorway and say to the person trying to climb in, 'you know, you'll be in a lot of trouble if I call the police", and he said, "yeah, I guess'. And then he left. Then I went back to bed.

OK, let's hear now all the fearful nancies start shrieking about that.

[quote] Six figures ain't what it used to be

The teachers in my area don't make close to 6 figures, I'm guessing.

The cops, on the other hand, with overtime, have been making 6 figures (in my area) for a long time. No college education required!

Six figures is a lot for job that doesn't require a college degree. You've got to be kidding if you think it isn't.

NO idea

Thankless

More than a few, not all--- but more than a few LEO have a real lust for power and domination. They are drawn to their career. The initial psych testing weeds out some (those failing go into private security). Frankly, a thorough psych eval should be mandatory on a routine basis rather than just the initial exam. The LEO unions will not allow ongoing testing to happen. A lot of these needless shootings by LEO against citizens would decrease as a result.

My friend became a state park cop in the nineties he just retired at 53 and is living high on the hog from bennies and retirement for life. He was pretty burnt out by the end of his career but he was o.k as long as he didn't have to do this periodic training with other cops. Thats what he really couldn't stand. He wrote two tickets year. He was the type of cop you'd want to have show up when you needed a cop. He was provided with accommodation in the parks housing his whole work life. He has a pile of cash. What a lark.

That's hardly the story of a police officer R33.

[quote]The San Francisco Police Department is down more than 600 officers, almost 30 percent of its allotment. Phoenix needs about 500 more officers to be fully staffed. The D.C. police force is smaller than it has been in 50 years, despite troubling gun violence and carjackings, as officers leave faster than they can be replaced.

[quote]Police departments across the country are struggling to fill their ranks, creating what many current and former officials say is a staffing emergency that threatens public safety.

more at link

I feel for good cops, but the police unions stonewalled for years on any kind of meaningful oversight, and that's what led to bad cops killing innocent people or shooting before evaluating the situation, with no repercussions for the offending officers. After a particularly egregious episode with a mildly retarded guy in a store in my town, (tazed, beaten with a baton, put on his abdomen with a non-breathing mask which quickly led to his death). we finally got a police ombudsman, but that position came with so little enforcement powers after being watered down that it was basically meaningless.

My personal interactions with police have nearly always been horrific - including being used as a human shield when I reported a break in at the apartment below mine in NYC. My former brother-in-law was a SF cop, and a thoroughly unpleasant person.

Training training training - and the backup of mental health professionals once it has been determined that the police have been called to a scene where there is a mental health crisis - those should be the bare minimums.

Sadly, police are now dealing with people crazed by drugs and also by the gun-carrying members of gangs and cartels who distribute drugs across the country. I'm sorry about that part.

[quote] I think that the biggest problem with law enforcement is cowardice. If they didn't suffer from huge amounts of that, there would be a lot less shootings.

Tell us you live in San Francisco without telling us you live in San Francisco.

I am a teacher who works in a beautiful small California beach town and two students murdered another student last year. There are fights daily, weapons and drugs constantly being confiscated. All for a whopping 50,000 salary for 11 months. Nobody but principals and superintendents make 6 figures. Teachers are leaving in droves. I’m staying for retirement and benefits—mostly due to my husband having a lifelong condition which always will require medical attention.

Law Enforcement is actually a good career for young men who graduate h.s. and have no plans. Farmboys, ex-military, jocks... they can make a good living and retire comfortably if they play their cards right.

And of course Crime is a booming industry.

When I was a teen there seemed to be cops waiting everywhere to give you a ticket. But we had a bad situation where a cop shot a black guy during a traffic stop and now you never see traffic cops. I figure they don't think it's worth the trouble.

When I was in high school we thought it was scandalous when girls got into fistfights.

R41 That's hilarious! Yep, those were the days.