RFK Jr. Claims CIA Killed JFK

It's so strange that he's willing to accept that a lone gunman killed his father, but not Kennedy.

I wonder why that is.

He’ll lose potential voters with each paranoid, lunatic, and arrogant public statement he makes. Maybe he can snag some QAnon votes from Trump.

Who will be his running mate? JFK, Jr?

Was he always like this?

So not only is he an anti-vaxxer nut, he's a conspiracy nutjob too?

R1 Because a lone gunman, inspired by the Kennedy assassination, did murder his father. However the CIA killed both John and MLK.

Those two things usually go together, R5

First Lady Cheryl Hines.

Of course the paranoid old druggie got it wrong again.

Don’t most people just accept this now?

He may be an asshole but that asshole was tight.

I was never, ever a JFK conspiracy guy. And, I'm still not I guess. BUT, I will say that Howard Hunt's deathbed confession sounded plausible to me. So, who knows?

He is not wrong. Joannides is a name that will come to light when/if Biden ever releases all the records. Well, don't count on it.

Heroin does not do a body good.

In real time, he was recognized as the most conservative Democratic president since Cleveland & the CIA, as is its wont with presidents, conspired to execute him. Why is that, again?

R13 Joannides! Hiding in plain site!

R9 If he is a druggie what’s his drug of choice. I’ll wait.

R17.

Keep talking RFK JR…..

Sure, Jan

[quote] It's so strange that he's willing to accept that a lone gunman killed his father, but not Kennedy.

Huh?

[quote]It's so strange that he's willing to accept that a lone gunman killed his father, but not Kennedy.

Who’s “he”?

I doubt he believes Sirhan Sirhan is responsible for his dads murder. I saw a fascinating documentary on this, featuring Daniel Brown , a renowned Harvard psychologist and hypnotherapist who worked extensively with Sirhan in prison, and teased out what happened. I knew Browns work on attachment and trauma, and stumbled across his work on the RFK assassination totally by accident. (He was a true genius, died last year, sadly. And yes, he had a trippy demeanor.)

He might be a nut, but he also might be right about this one.

R24 No he's just a nut related to several murder victims. Look around there's lots of them these days.

[quote] I doubt he believes Sirhan Sirhan is responsible for his dads murder.

He doesn't.

He also thinks vaccines cause autism and adult-onset mental retardation.

The guy’s a toothy fucking maniac, just like the rest of that loser family.

IMO those involved with the JFK killing were CIA contractors, freelancers who schemed with the Mafia on the JFK assassination. JFK and his father enlisted their Mafia contacts to do any number of things for them. They were, in the loosest sense, in bed with the Mafia. They helped out during the primaries and during the general election. Promises were made. The Mafia lost a real plum when Castro took over. they eagerly agreed to work with the Kennedys to get rid of him. All kinds of sabotage, plots, etc. including their involvement with the Bay of Pigs fiasco. It was during the period when the Mafia was involved in the Cuban plots and schemes that they came to know certain operatives who did contract work for the CIA. When JFK turned his brother Bobby loose and Bobby was working against them, and JFK was back pedaling on his promises, andJoe, sr. had his stroke, the Mafia decided to assassinate Kennedy. I'm giving the shorthand version, but I have read and seen enough to feel very comfortable with that theory. It wasn't the actual CIA as an agency , but it was freelance killers the CIA had used in the past who had a relationship with the Mafia. The same Mafia that had Jimmy Hoffa murdered years later.

of course the CIA did it. who else?

R28 That’s a very believable hypothesis.

It’s a mainstream view.

JFK conspiracists, meet QAnon.

George Bush is the one person in America who "forgot" where he was the day Kennedy was shot

[quote] George Bush is the one person in America who "forgot" where he was the day Kennedy was shot

When "everyone" knows he was in front of the TSBD Building when JFK was killed!

I may not be sure of much, but I am absolutely certain that LHO, & LHO alone, was the sole person who shot JFK. I refer all to this quote from Vincent Bugliosi:

Here, everything pointed toward Oswald’s guilt. All the physical evidence, all the scientific evidence. Everything he said, everything he did. In Reclaiming History, at the end of book one, I set forth 53 separate pieces of evidence pointing toward Oswald’s guilt. It would not be humanly possible for this man to be innocent and still have 53 pieces of evidence pointing toward his guilt. Only in a fantasy world can you have 53 pieces of evidence pointing toward guilt and still be innocent.

Even if this is true, is it smart to say such things while running for office?

Sorry, R35. Impossible. Oswald was exactly what he claimed to be: A Patsy. He was involved, but he wasn't the main guy. The gun they claim was used to kill Kennedy is the reason I finally began to doubt LHO was the lone gunman. It was a bolt action, mail order rifle with a faulty sighting mechanism. You pulled the bolt sight, and shoot. Or sight then pull the bolt. Not sure. Whatever. The point is not even the best marksman sharpshooter could get off the three shots within the time frame it happened with the degree of accuracy required. It wasn't an automatic weapon. Once the shot was taken you had to resight it because the sighting mechanism would loosen and slip. Then you line up your next shot and pull the bolt, etc.

The Dallas cops were pissed off at Oswald and they beat him up during questioning because he killed a cop. J.D. Tippett followed Oswald into a movie theater and attempted to take him out. Oswald shot him. But not with the rifle. So Oswald had another gun? A hand gun? Because the alleged rifle that Oswald is accused of using was left at the School Book Depository building on a crate of books. It was a very messy set up.

John Catsimatidis, a six hundred pound trumper who owns Gristedies.

R11 who is the big laughing asshole on the right?

R38 YOU MADE ME LAUGH. YOU HAVE THAT ALL WRONG. TIPPIT WAS SHOT ON 10th & PATTON, NOT IN THE THEATER, AND NOT BY OSWALD.

Oswald acted alone, and on behalf of no one.

George HW Bush was in Tyler, TX giving a speech to the Kawanis Club. When he and Bar got the news, they went to Dallas.

R37 you're wrong. It's been done.

R41, Wiki says other wise. Oswald was ID'd as the shooter. Here's Wiki's description :

'At approximately 1:11–1:14 p.m.,[19] Tippit was driving slowly eastward on East 10th Street — about 100 feet (30 m) past the intersection of 10th Street and Patton Avenue — when he pulled alongside a man who resembled the police description.[24][25] Oswald walked over to Tippit's car and exchanged words with him through an open vent window.[26] Tippit opened his car door and as he (Tippit) walked toward the front of the car, Oswald drew his handgun and fired five shots in rapid succession. Three bullets hit Tippit in the chest, another in his right temple, one bullet missed him altogether. Tippit's body was transported from the scene of the shooting by ambulance to Methodist Hospital, where he was pronounced dead at 1:25 p.m. by Dr. Richard A. Liguori.[7]

A short time later, Hardy's shoe store manager Johnny Brewer observed Oswald acting suspiciously as police cars passed nearby with sirens blaring. Oswald then ducked into the Texas Theatre without purchasing a ticket. The police were notified by the theater's cashier and responded by surrounding the theater. Oswald was arrested after a brief struggle.[27]

Location on East 10th Street marked by an "X" where Oswald killed Tippit in the Oak Cliff neighborhood Twelve people who witnessed the shooting or its aftermath were mentioned in the Warren Report.[28] Domingo Benavides saw Tippit standing by the left door of his parked police car, and a man standing on the right side of the car. He then heard three[29] shots and saw Tippit fall to the ground. Benavides stopped his pickup truck on the opposite side of the street from Tippit's car. He observed the shooter fleeing the scene and removing two spent cartridge cases from his gun as he left.

Benavides waited in his truck until the gunman disappeared, and then "a few minutes" more, before assisting Tippit. He then tried, unsuccessfully,[19] to use the radio in Tippit's car to report the shooting to police headquarters. Then another, unidentified person used the radio in the car and reported the shooting to a police operator for the first time. After that, Ted Callaway, who was Benavides' boss at the used car lot and a former Marine, also used the radio and reported the shooting (hearing in response that the police already know about it).[29][30] Callaway testified that he had seen the shooter with the gun "in a raised pistol position", and shouted at him, but what the shooter responded was unintelligible.[30] Helen Markham witnessed the shooting and then saw a man with a gun in his hand leave the scene.[31] Markham identified Oswald as Tippit's killer in a police lineup she viewed that evening.[32] Barbara Davis and her sister-in-law Virginia Davis heard the shots and saw a man crossing their lawn, shaking his revolver, as if he were emptying it of cartridge cases. Later, the women found two cartridge cases near the crime scene and handed the cases over to police (two other cartridge cases were handed to a policeman by Benavides). That evening, Barbara Davis and Virginia Davis were taken to a lineup and both Davises picked out Oswald as the man whom they had seen.[33]

Taxicab driver William Scoggins testified that he was sitting nearby in his cab when he saw Tippit's police car pull up alongside a man on the sidewalk. Scoggins heard three or four shots and then saw Tippit fall to the ground. As Scoggins crouched behind his cab, the man passed within 12 feet of him, pistol in hand, muttering what sounded to him like, "poor dumb cop" or "poor damn cop."[34] The next day, Scoggins viewed a police lineup and identified Oswald as the man whom he had seen with the pistol.[35]

The Commission also named several other witnesses[36] who were not at the scene of the murder, but who identified Oswald running between the murder scene and the Texas Theatre, where Oswald was subsequently arrested.[37]"

R1 you do realise that his father was "Kennedy" as well.

R41. Tent and Patton. Lee Harvey Oswald. PATTON OSWALD!!!

Coincidence? I think not!

Okay, if the CIA did do it, then why?

And there was no reason for the FBI to murder him: apparently JFK told Vidal Gore that he just did what they wanted him to. He didn't have a similar rship with the CIA?

[quote] who is the big laughing asshole on the right?

LeMoyne Billings.

Does anyone even listen to anything this lunatic says? He's a clownshow.

Good grief. Oswald was no more a patsy than when he single-handedly tried to kill Gen. Walker on 4/10/63. And the very idea that he would've lived a full 48 hours after the JFK assassination if he was a "patsy" is laughable. He never would have gotten out of the Texas School Book Depository alive if he was.

He and the youngest brother recently supported parole for Sirhan, who is now elderly and remorseful, while most of the family did not.

Why couldn't Russia be involved?

Oh dear, is he off those meds again that they give to all the Kennedy Family members?

R33 Nixon forgot too, that he was in Dallas for Pepsi business.

Poppy was on the grassy knoll that day; he sent me a postcard!

No, he didn't, R54.

Nothing new here. This story has been circulating right after RFK was shot back in 1968.

The same rumors were swirling around after JFK was assassinated in 1963.

JFK was not considered conservative. His tax cuts were firmly in the liberal economic theory of Keynesianism. His social policy was very liberal, when politicians really tried to stay away from that. Remember, current maga were a part of the coalition of Democrats because they are economic liberals. When the parties stayed away from social issues, they were happy Democrats. When Democrats, starting with JFK, started pushing civil rights, eventually passing it, as LBJ said, they lost the South for a generation (at least). Of course I am just talking about that element of the party at that time.

[quote] JFK was not considered conservative.

I've pointed this out before in these pages, but, in its post-assassination issue, one of the weekly/monthly magazines of the era - I think it might have been the Saturday Evening Post - memorialized JFK as "the most conservative Democratic president since Grover Cleveland."

Actually it was CIA agents in conjunction with the Mafia and Anti-Castro Cubans. Oswald was involved but he wasn't even the shooter, he was the patsy fall-guy as he claimed.

Why doesn’t the family send him to the basement like they did the retarded girl?

Oswald was as much a patsy as was J6 a false flag operation. Ha.

The Qnatics are pushing him hard. They even want a Trump-Kennedy Jr. ticket. Now why is that?

^ The conspiracy ticket.

R62 When I was 12 I bought a second hand paperback copy of the The Report of the Warren Commission on the Assassination of JFK. I had never heard about any conspiracy theory before I read it, and even as a 12 year old who had the expectation that he was reading historical facts, I found it difficult to believe, contrived, and the single bullet theory to be borderline absurd. It wasn't until a couple of years later in middle school when a history teacher mentioned that there are many people that didn't believe the Warren Commission report to be factual. It was also when I learned a new word; conspiracy.

LHO was the single shooter. The coverup was due to the fact that the FBI knew that Oswald was talking publicly about killing Kennedy and they didn't do anything about it. They didn't believe him. The FBI fucked up and tried to cover up their mistakes. The president was dead because the FBI failed to act.

And Donald Trump was elected president & polls show he’s leading Biden right now. Americans are not known to particularly smart. As for the single bullet theory you find “borderline absurd,” R65, know that, to advance their con, EVERY re-enactment by its critics ignores the fact that Connally was seated in the jump-seat in front of Kennedy. They all have him directly in front of Kennedy. So who, then, are the peddlers of bullshit?!

I remember a photo of Oswald holding a weapon that was released after the assassination and it was obviously doctored - this was long before photoshop - his head was on someone else's body. Even my young eyes could tell.

^ to be particularly smart.

R68, that photo - which Marina admitted taking - has been repeatedly authenticated. But nice try.

Omg

Dozens of witnesses original stories that given to the press and to federal investigators later changed to match the story narrative. Literally over 100 witnesses died in just three years., many right before they were to testify. Several expert mathematicians and statisticians said the odds of that many witnesses of the assassination dying in such a short span of time and being a coincidence is over 100 trillion to one.

Suggestion for Muriel: create a web shop with DL-branded merch. Tin foil hats would be a big seller.

Why were these witnesses allowed to live at all, R72, let alone some as long as three years?! Whomever was in charge of this global conspiracy was pretty lax.

[quote] Tin foil hats would be a big seller.

Along with JFK Jr. T-shirts!

Curtain rods.

R70, Marina "authenticated" it? Really? If I was Marina, I'd be doing anything the Feds told me to do. LOL!

^ Spoken like a true conspiracist!

JFK is so popular and beloved and really puts a shine on the Democratic Party, some conservatives have tried very hard since his assassination to label him “conservative” which he was anything but.

I'm sure Cord Meyer was involved somehow.

I'll repeat my story here... I used to encounter a very old Swiss lady walking her dog. We struck up a sort of friendship - our dogs played together - and would chat. She had worked as one of the Kennedy's nannies when Bobby was AG. She was with them for a couple of years. Said it was the worst job she ever had. She said both Bobby and Ethel were alcoholics (this was, in Ethel's defense, before Fetal Alcoholic Syndrome had been diagnosed) and neither of them paid any attention whatsoever to their litter of kids or their zoo of pets. It was the nannies' job and all the nannies grew to hate the whole family. Their kids were all nutjobs.

So hardly surprising that most of them turned out so badly. I asked her if she ever met Jackie or her kids and she said Jackie never came near them and Ethel used to bitch all the time about what a snob Jackie was. She figured Jackie didn't want Ethel's brats contaminating her kids.

Ethel had a brother - I think - who had been killed in a plane crash. He had a shitload of kids too who would show up at Ethel's house as if it weren't already a madhouse.

^ My Aunt's maid's sister's son has a very old friend whose next door neighbor killed all the Kennedys , MLK, Malcolm X and Lady Di.

Computer imaging of the assassination drama the EXACT LINE from both bullets that hit JFK. And that line goes straight to the 5th floor of the book depository.

There was nothing magic about the bullet at all. In fact, it behaved exactly as it should have done aerodynamically speaking. The governor was in a jump seat which was further inside and lower than the diagram in the movie JFK would have it. Single bullet THEORY is now single bullet FACT.

I'm 53, and as I said before, I've all my life railed against conspiracy theories. Especially this one. It was a cardinal trait of mine, in fact. BUT I will say that in recent years, some things have given me pause.

I still believe Oswald was the lone assassin that day. But, I'm not as sure it was his idea. The 2007 death bed confession of Howard Hunt is very interesting. I have to say, nothing about it rings false. He implicates LBJ and Cord Meyer.

Now dig, Mary Pinchot Meyer, Cord's ex-wife, was carrying on an affair with JFK. They have the live letters. He was REALLY into her. Maybe the love of his life. Hunt claims this was one of the reasons Cord was approached to be involved.

Mary does seem to have been quite and extraordinary woman. She kept a detailed diary of her and JFK's doings. I understand that when the Warren Report came out, she was pretty upset.

In October, 1964 she's taking a walk through the park, and is shot and killed at point blank range. They never found out who did it.

A CIA agent called her brother in law and told him Mary had been killed. Thing is, her brother in law was called about an hour before police identified who she was. She went on walks without her purse, so no ID.

Her brother in law was aware of the diary, so he went to her place to retrieve it. And who did he find there, trying to break in? The very same CIA agent who called him. What's crazier is her brother in law was Ben Bradlee!

I don't know about JFK, but this woman was almost certainly assassinated by the CIA.

So r83, you don't think the CIA killed JFK, but you do think they killed Mary Pinchot Meyer?

Wow. Just - wow.

R84 not what I said.

To me, it's just more clear in the case of Meyer. I said I don't know about JFK. Not as clear cut.

Gore Vidal, not Vidal Gore.

RFK Jr.: A whole enchilada crackpot.

There is a very good chance that RFK Jr is part of a conspiracy to kill himself. I've done the research people!

Dating red flags: smokers, bad hygiene, Republicans and people who believe in massive conspiracies.

[quote] JFK is so popular and beloved and really puts a shine on the Democratic Party, some conservatives have tried very hard since his assassination to label him “conservative” which he was anything but.

I think it’s meant in comparison with the views of the party today. So it would mean that he’s further to the right than current party orthodoxy.

I guess the question is, did RFK senior also believe the same...?

JFK's epiphany was dealing with The Joint Chiefs, and their crazy, paranoid war mongering. He tried back door channels for nuclear disarmament with the Soviet Union, and he had to go. In public, as a warning to any future president who had his own ideas. The military and CIA killed him, and who the hell is going to ever successfully expose that?

R90 He’s not further to the right of the party today. That’s ridiculous. It’s an attempt to imply he would be a Republican, or he would’ve been a Reagan Republican. He was a fucking Democrat when REPUBLICANS were to the Left of the current Republican Party. Nixon was way Left of the current Republicans. JFK was a solid mainstream Democrat, and very progressive on many economic and even radical on social issues.

Well fed

Rowdy but wholesome

FAS? What’s that?

De facto Patriarch…?

July 4 2018, Hyannis Port

I don't know him.

The Democratic Party of the ‘60s (& before) was very different than today. Much as the Republican Party has changed to, first reflect the evangelical takeover within its midst &, second, the Trump influence, the Democratic Party was transformed by its obeisance to the feminist movement. As an example, the Kennedys pre-Roe were universally anti-abortion. But issue had so little salience during the lifetimes of both JFK & RFK that you won’t find any evidence of them ever addressing it. For political purposes, the surviving Ted Kennedy became pro-choice, but sister Eunice & her husband Sargent Shriver remained resolutely anti-abortion throughout their lives.

R99 EVERYONE was more socially conservative on some issues. The Democrats largely avoided the issues because of the culturally conservative southerners, BUT they were the Left party on most issues even social issues. The exception was their southern voters. That said, JFK would have been a staunch Democrat in any timeline from his time onward. He was not remotely conservative.

both parties have switched sides. The Democrats (southern democrats) were the racist party and the jim crow party, and non-southern Democrats were much more conservative than they are now. The Republicans were somewhat conservative and more on the side of business but nothing like what it has become.

For someone who was “not remotely conservative[,]” R100, liberals in 1960 were sure slow to embrace him.

R101 WHAT? Democrats were not more conservative. EVERYONE was more culturally conservative than now, but MOST Democrats and MOST Republicans were inline with each other. Democrats, the party of FDR, was more conservative? What are you smoking? LBJ’s Great Society more conservative? Those were huge, monumental progressive presidents. JFK, too, had he lived since he was headed that direction.

R102 Due to his foreign policy. They feared he would get us into a war and Bay Of Pigs did not make them happy.

I'm not even close to being a crazy conspiracy theorist but I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't a lone gunman either.

The national Democratic Party, from FDR through LBJ, made an implicit bargain with its very large Southern members of Congress. While the latter could not be counted on for support for civil rights platform, they were loyal on economic & non-civil rights legislative goals.

He's a total mental case. Then again, so are several of his brothers. Ethel should have had a shitload fewer kids and paid more attention to them.

This is what most people in the U.S. think. It's the prevailing opinion.

This guy is a paranoid nut job holding some bizarro conspiracy theories. Time to cancel.

I haven’t seen a recent poll on the subject, R108, but I suspect that, with the passage of time, the number of Americans believing in a conspiracy is at an all-time low.

R105 the science says every bullet we know about can be traced back to the 6th floor window.

Sophisticated analysis of the grassy knoll shows no person standing whereas before people said they could see a person in the pictures.

I'm pretty convinced beyond all doubt that Oswald was the lone shooter.

^ Of course he was.

Who gives a fuck about a poll R108?

Lest there be any doubt, I was seconding R111’s sentiment.

Who gives a fuck about a poll R108?

"There is overwhelming evidence that the CIA was involved in his murder."

Okay, and where is it?

Aaron Rodgers would make an excellent VP for Bob Jr.

Do you really believe the U.S. is by far the dominant World Power without ruthless, calculated planning?

The case of hit for hire can be read in The National Archives. There were many people who wanted JFK dead. The cover-up (lie) was an unfortunate success. Ugh…we need literate people who possess critical thinking skills.

He will not be missed.

I always thought that New Orleans mob boss Carlos Marcello had Kennedy killed. His office and home were bugged by the FBI and CM was on tape talking about it.

Attorney General Robert F. Kennedy, apprehended Marcello as he made what he assumed was a routine visit to the immigration authorities in New Orleans, then deported him to Guatemala. Marcello was enraged and said that he could have died in that jungle. He was left in a jungle with nothing, no supplies.

What he said was :

"Kennedy's not going to make it to the ((1964)) election -- he's going to be hit." "You know what they say in Sicily: if you want to kill a dog, you don't cut off the tail, you cut off the head.". This was in reference to Bobby, Bobby being the tail. I have always found this theory to be very plausible.

My pussy stinks.

And I eat boogers.

It's PLAUSIBLE that the CIA was involved. But there is not "overwhelming" evidence that the CIA was involved.

Believe me, for me to say this is a BIG deal. Because for years and years I was always in any friend group the "no conspiracy" guy. I argued till the cows came home that Oswald acted on his own, and on behalf of no one.

As I said, I'm still convinced that Oswald was the lone shooter. But I'm less sure today than I used to be that he was not acting at the behest of someone. For years, my bible in this matter was Reclaiming History by Vincent Bugliosi. Towards the end of his life, he stated "Oswald acted alone. No question about that. But I cannot say beyond all doubt that there was no conspiracy beyond that." I was surprised that he said that. But also glad, because it jibed with my own evolving feelings on the matter.

There's nothing "overwhelming" about the "evidence." In fact, one of the reasons it's all so fascinating is that whatever's out there that points to CIA involvement is subtle. All pieces of a puzzle, where the pieces don't quite fit, but change shapes each time more records on the assassination are released by the FBI/CIA.

My God, the love letter from JFK to Mary Pinchot Meyer that emerged in 2016 was a bombshell. Should've been much bigger news, in my opinion. That was one piece of information that helped make some puzzle pieces maybe fit together better.

I believe LHO was a patsy because it is just too much of a coincidence that Jack Ruby happened along and shot him dead. I believe both Ruby and Oswald were used by either the mob or the CIA, I always have. Didn't Bobby think so as well?

I've read at least 5 books about this over the years and watched many documentaries. I always thought Sam Giancana and Marcello had him killed. Oswald was in Mexico City about a month before Kennedy's assassination, shooting off his mouth about Kennedy and that soon he'd be dead. The FBI were listening and recording the phone calls he made from there. Most of the phone calls were to the KGB , in Russia. The FBI did nothing and let Kennedy go to Texas, where he wasn't popular, in an open car. There's so many odd and confusing situations around this event. Why would Jack Ruby kill Oswald the way he did, in front of everyone with the Cops right there? Jack Ruby was also the chauffeur for Dave Powers, when he went to Arizona to p!ay golf on a business trip regarding Government business. Jack Ruby was very connected to the Mafia. In one of the books I read, it said that Momo ( giancana) hired assassins from Marseille France, where there was a hideout for Assassin's. One name I came across was Lucien Sartie, A well known assassin in the underworld. I think the Mafia was behind this. They were extremely pissed off about Bobby and that he went after them after they helped get his brother elected. They didn't kill Bobby because they knew killing Kennedy would stop him in his tracks, because the power behind him ( his brother) was dead. If they'd have killed Bobby the President would have went after them more. I think Oswald WAS in that building and did have a gun and intended to kill Kennedy, and did shoot at Kennedy, but someone else was up there too, and it was someone who knew how to kill. I never believed the magic bullet theory either. Oswald did kill JD Tippet, and at that point was out of his mind. The Mafia had more of a beef with the Kennedy's than anyone else, except the Joints Chiefs of Staff over the issue of Vietnam. The Mafia was very upset over Cuba too where they had many financial interests. I think the Mafia had him killed and Government Agencies looked the other way. In Robert McNamara's Auto biography ( which I also read) he talked about how he tried to repeatedly get JFK to approve Vietnam, but Kennedy was absolutely against it. However, Eisenhower warned Kennedy about the Military Industrial Complex, and that's where I started to wonder if they were directly behind it and also working with the Mafia. Its confusing especially when you read the Warren Commission Papers. Nothing really makes sense, but I think the Mafia did it while others looked the other way.

Some of the most interesting puzzle pieces:

Lee Harvey Oswald attempts to assassinate General Walker on April 10, 1963.

On September 25, 1963 it is announced that John F. Kennedy is going to visit Dallas for the first time.

On October 15, 1963, LHO is hired to work at the Texas Schoolbook Depository.

On October 21, 1963, Jerry Bruno, Kennedy's advance man for domestic trips meets with one of Lyndon Johnson's top guys Walter Jenkins to consult him about the itinerary for Kennedy's trip.

November 19, 1963 plans for the trip are announced, including the motorcade.

It's fucking insanity. So Oswald tries to assassinate Walker. And then, 7 months later, just happens to be working at an office where President Kennedy will be driving by slowly in an open top convertible? These are the kinds of things that really started to make me wonder. The very basic stuff.

By the way, two men in this story were eventually arrested in public restrooms looking for sex with dudes. Walter Jenkins, and Walker. Walker was a right wing neo Nazi loon. Really a precursor to all the gay neo-Nazis (Nick Fuentes, Dalton Clodfelter, ect) we're seeing today.

Don't know if Walter Jenkins was similar, but it's interesting.

How do so many conspirators as required to pull this off, R125, stay silent? THAT to me is what makes the idea of a conspiracy so implausible. And, R123, the very idea that the CIA or mob would engage the services of unhinged characters like Oswald & Ruby is also most implausible. Also, as stated upthread, there is ZERO chance that these dark forces would have allowed Oswald to live - and talk - for almost 48 hours. He would not gotten out of the Texas School Book building alive.

Odd that the CIA, with its history of offing liberal threats, didn’t affect the assassination of Obama, too.

I’m firmly, resolutely in the camp of those who believe Oswald was the lone gunman. As for a larger conspiracy, it’s hard to prove a negative, but I doubt the loner Oswald was acting in concert with others.

I was young when Oliver Stone's movie came out and I integrated the notion that the CIA killed JFK into my psyche pretty much as if it's just a fact, even though I know it's a conspiracy theory.

The Trump administration made me rethink that. If the CIA isn't willing and able to take out a president who is a clear and present danger to the United States government and democracy, and who openly prefers the Russian autocrat to his own home country that made him rich and allowed him to get away with a lifetime of crimes, then the CIA is not willing and able to take out a president.

The absolute morons on this thread who believe Oswald did it & acted alone are trolls, or worse, so incredibly stupid and unread. Check out the Education Forum, which has its own set of trolls and disinformation specialists, even 60 years later. The entire CIA could be poked, prodded and come under congressional and public scrutiny as the groundswell of what RFK (yeah he's nuts) and Tucker (yeah he's a troll) have been saying. The Paines, Ruth and Michael, have so many intel connections that their presence in Dallas is the early 60's, is a good starting point. The White Russian community there, after the cold war 50's. was ripe.

Could you do better than Jim Garrison did in New Orleans in proving this "conspiracy," R130?

R131 = DIS-INFO TROLL SUPREME.

Bobby Kennedy didn't want the Warren Commission going too deeply into the real possibility Fidel Castro was behind the assassination. JFK and RFK tried to assassinate Castro and they both ended up getting assassinated. Sam Giancana had been stabbed in the back by both JFK and RFK and the mafia was not pleased.

Probably some coordination between the mafia and Castro. The mafia had deep and long-term ties in Cuba.

[quote] Ugh…we need literate people who possess critical thinking skills.

Oh, the irony!

R133 Wasn't Allen Dulles- the former CIA director that Kennedy had fired a year before the assassination- the head of the Warren Commission?

R126 I concede your points. BUT come on. The timing of failed General assassin Oswald- he just so happens to be working in a building where the president's motorcade is driving past. How many Americans worked in buildings that Kennedys motorcade passed? I'd guess way less than .001%.

Could be coincidence. But... I just can't be as sure as I once was that Oswald did this completely of his own volition.

R130 do you really have to be so insulting? This is something I've been trying to work through all my life. And, I've changed my mind when new information became available. I'm not at all being a troll.

[quote] I just can't be as sure as I once was that Oswald did this completely of his own volition.

I can't be either, but that's a different calculation than whether Oswald was the lone gunman. On that, as someone who's devoted much time to this over the many, many years, I have no doubt.

I agree he was the lone gunman. Beyond all doubt. But, I'm not sure he wasn't acting on behalf of someone

I'll echo what many of the up-thread commenters have said about Jack Ruby. I do not believe one single conspiracy theory that constantly floats around the Internet but I will never understand Ruby's motive. The nation was devastated by JFK's assassination but is grief alone enough to move a small-time criminal to kill a suspect? Ruby moved in circles that were plenty shady but it makes me wonder what leverage did any crime outfit have on him to convince him to shoot LHO in front of the whole world. And then he dies within a few years? Somethin' wrong theah, as they say in Maine.

I think r28 has the closest theory. The CIA - with help from anti-Castro Cubans - worked with the Mafia to kill JFK.

A very entertaining book by Frank Sinatra's former valet of many years (highly recommended, there's a thread here someplace about it) posited that Giancana and the Mob got rid of JFK because of his backtracking on his promises to them, after they helped him win Illinois in the 1960 election, which put him over the top electorally. Joe Kennedy Sr. had engineered that feat privately, without his sons' knowledge, but after his major stroke wasn't able to tell JFK and get him to pull pitbull Bobby off his zealous mob prosecutions. They (the mob) were totally pissed and decided action needed to be taken.

I had a college roommate years ago who was Cuban, raised in south Florida. His father was one of the ringleaders of the Bay of Pigs invasion, he'd been captured during that event and spent a couple of years languishing in prison, before being traded for by JFK and released to the US. The entire family hated the Kennedys, this guy used to get drunk and crow about how he knew who killed JFK, that his father knew the perpetrators personally. I never doubted him.

IMO those involved with the JFK killing were CIA contractors, freelancers who schemed with the Mafia on the JFK assassination. JFK and his father enlisted their Mafia contacts to do any number of things for them. They were, in the loosest sense, in bed with the Mafia. They helped out during the primaries and during the general election. Promises were made. The Mafia lost a real plum when Castro took over. they eagerly agreed to work with the Kennedys to get rid of him. All kinds of sabotage, plots, etc. including their involvement with the Bay of Pigs fiasco. It was during the period when the Mafia was involved in the Cuban plots and schemes that they came to know certain operatives who did contract work for the CIA. When JFK turned his brother Bobby loose and Bobby was working against them, and JFK was back pedaling on his promises, andJoe, sr. had his stroke, the Mafia decided to assassinate Kennedy. I'm giving the shorthand version, but I have read and seen enough to feel very comfortable with that theory. It wasn't the actual CIA as an agency , but it was freelance killers the CIA had used in the past who had a relationship with the Mafia. The same Mafia that had Jimmy Hoffa murdered years later.

Let's try this again:

[quote]IMO those involved with the JFK killing were CIA contractors, freelancers who schemed with the Mafia on the JFK assassination. JFK and his father enlisted their Mafia contacts to do any number of things for them. They were, in the loosest sense, in bed with the Mafia. They helped out during the primaries and during the general election. Promises were made. The Mafia lost a real plum when Castro took over. they eagerly agreed to work with the Kennedys to get rid of him. All kinds of sabotage, plots, etc. including their involvement with the Bay of Pigs fiasco. It was during the period when the Mafia was involved in the Cuban plots and schemes that they came to know certain operatives who did contract work for the CIA. When JFK turned his brother Bobby loose and Bobby was working against them, and JFK was back pedaling on his promises, andJoe, sr. had his stroke, the Mafia decided to assassinate Kennedy. I'm giving the shorthand version, but I have read and seen enough to feel very comfortable with that theory. It wasn't the actual CIA as an agency , but it was freelance killers the CIA had used in the past who had a relationship with the Mafia. The same Mafia that had Jimmy Hoffa murdered years later.

I think [R28] has the closest theory. The CIA - with help from anti-Castro Cubans - worked with the Mafia to kill JFK.

A very entertaining book by Frank Sinatra's former valet of many years (highly recommended, there's a thread here someplace about it) posited that Giancana and the Mob got rid of JFK because of his backtracking on his promises to them, after they helped him win Illinois in the 1960 election, which put him over the top electorally. Joe Kennedy Sr. had engineered that feat privately, without his sons' knowledge, but after his major stroke wasn't able to tell JFK and get him to pull pitbull Bobby off his zealous mob prosecutions. They (the mob) were totally pissed and decided action needed to be taken.

I had a college roommate years ago who was Cuban, raised in south Florida. His father was one of the ringleaders of the Bay of Pigs invasion, he'd been captured during that event and spent a couple of years languishing in prison, before being traded for by JFK and released to the US. The entire family hated the Kennedys, this guy used to get drunk and crow about how he knew who killed JFK, that his father knew the perpetrators personally. I never doubted him.

I once knew someone who was close to Jack Ruby’s niece. His takeaway from the family was that it was the height of hilarity that crazy Jack - of all people - would’ve been hired by anyone to carry out such an important mission. That’s apart from the fact that he could have killed Oswald that Friday night when he was then in Oswald’s presence.

Thanks R142. Once I came to that conclusion as time passed it felt kind of obvious to me. The Mafia had a direct link to the Kennedys. And the Mafia had a direct link to the CIA freelancers. In addition, there was ol' LHO handing out flyers working with the "Fair Play for Cuba" committee in NOLA! The Mafiosi who orchestrated the assassination had to mention Cuba in there some where. Oswald at best was a fringe player on November 22nd. For all we know, maybe the Mafia guys decided that if they could get Kennedy for Castro, Castro would let them have their casinos. Who knows? Truthfully, I seriously doubt that Castro was involved, because he wouldn't want to deal with the Mob guys. They were nuts. But he might have been aware of their machinations.

Someone up thread asked how could such a thing be kept quiet? Wouldn't a lot of people have to know? Not if it was the Mafia. There were probably only two or three decision makers. And they hired contractors who probably didn't live very long after it was over with. But professional hit men don't usually talk about who they kill. The problem was keeping President Kennedy's movements confidential. Back in those days, the exact parade route would've been published in the newspapers. The Mafia guys could've easily found out the route even before it was published. The Mob had informants too. Especially in the local DPD. Oswald started working at the School Book Depository only a little over a month before the assassination. But it's likely there were other conspirators/shooters, stationed at various points. The School Book Depository was very obvious. Too obvious. And Oswald was a dupe.

Maybe I’ve underestimated the electoral chances of Young Bobby. If he can tap the support of both MAGA & DL conspiracists, he might have a chance.

R145, Bobby is bad news. If runs as a Dem we can deal with him. If he runs Independent it's a problem because he will break off just enough votes to fuck things up. OTOH, with his crazy messaging he may take votes away from the GOP.

"...we can deal with him.."

Ruby WAS crazy - but only because the CIA sent a MKUltra psychiatrist (Dr. Louis Jolyon 'Jolly' West) in to work on him after his murder of Oswald to MAKE him crazy

Jolly also hung out with Charlie Manson in San Francisco circa 1967. Crazy shizzzz.

According to Howard Hunts "confession" there was a pretty limited number of people in on it.

Frank Sturgis, Cord Meyer, LBJ, David Atlee Phillips, Bill Harvey, and Lee Harvey Oswald. He doesn't mention George HW Bush, but there's some circumstantial evidence that he was buzzing around the whole thing.

The Warren Commission left out the fact that Jack Ruby not only knew Lee Harvey Oswald well, they both also knew officer J.D. Tippit. Several witnesses recall them having lunch together at least twice. The bogus investigation cherry picked what suited their narrative and left out pertinent information that was contrary or invalidated their lone gunman story.

^ Pure poppycock.

R151 yeah I don't buy that.

The more populated the conspiracy, the less believable it is.

Jack Ruby was devastated by the assassination, so much so he closed his club for days. Out of a horrible realization Jackie would HAVE to return to Dallas and testify she saw her husband's head blown off, Ruby acted to kill Oswald to avoid a trial. It's THAT simple. People do crazy things because of grief.

Lol, no.

Lol, yes.

Here's a discussion between Joe Rogan and Tom O'Neil, author of "Chaos: Charles Manson, the CIA, and the Secret History of the Sixties", a book that he spent 20 years on investigating the connection between the CIA, the MK Ultra human drug and hypnosis experimentation program, and the Manson family, talking about what he discovered during the course of his research about Jack Ruby and that CIA psychiatrist.

R155 Bwa, ha ha ! Jack Ruby had deep ties to the Mafia.

Jack Ruby, a two-bit strip club owner, was a wannabe & cop-sniffing hanger-on. He was too much an emotional simpleton to be a key figure in the plot to assassinate a president.

[quote]Also, as stated upthread, there is ZERO chance that these dark forces would have allowed Oswald to live - and talk - for almost 48 hours. He would not gotten out of the Texas School Book building alive.

Nah, *they* needed LHO to be arrested, detained, booked, accused, etc. They needed the public to see his face and believe that his bullets were the only ones fired at JFK. They didn't want people to have lingering doubts about it all. They also needed him to die quickly... cue Jack Ruby, mafia wannabe. Their scheme would have worked flawlessly if not for the Zapruder film.

^ Right, like they’re going to give their patsy a chance to talk to the cops. Oswald’s brother, knowing how much he liked to play the victim role, was immediately convinced of his brother’s guilt when he visited him in jail & witnessed how uncharacteristically subdued he was. No talk of being a patsy in private.

But to the conspiracists, R162, the brother was in on it, too.

[quote]So not only is he an anti-vaxxer nut, he's a conspiracy nutjob too?

Of course he is. What else do you think he would be?

R81 It’s been reported that Jackie knew what a shit show it was at Hickory Hill and didn’t want her kids around Ethel’s out of control kids, their drug use and filth in the home. It was reported that dogs crapped in the house.

R160 and R155 are right. Ruby's strip club, the Carousel was a hang out for cops so he knew cops. And he was a wannabe. The reason he was even able to get in to the police garage to shoot Oswald is because he was a familiar figure. Also I want to say Hunt was full of shit. He used to write spy novels, so of course he created this theory of both LBJ and being Oswald in on it. Hunt was one of the guys who had a fringe role in supplying the Anti Castro "rebels" with weapons and training. Hunt wasn't the guy you'd confide in if you were going to kill the PResident. Or if you knew who did. The Secret Service would have worked with local officials and local law enforcement to decide on the parade route for the motorcade. Leaks were not only possible but probably likely.

R165 I've read the same things. Ethel was a horrible mother and the house was filth, the kids ran wild. Jackie didn't want Caroline and John to be around them. Her kids were close with the Shrivers. They were friendly with Lee Radziwill's kids and they grew closer as they got older, but Bobby's crew were terrible.

Im drunk tonight and first read this as Chaka Khan killed JFK.

I mean…he’s probably not wrong?

The Kennedys age horribly. Though I still find him sexy in a hot daddy way. I know I’m disturbed. I blame the Catholic Church.

R166 Yeah, also, Hunt claims a French assassin was on the grassy knoll. The thing is, the person he named was in prison at the time.

Still, when you hear him tell the story (I've heard the tape, but it's impossible to find anywhere now, which is interesting) other than that point about the grassy knoll guy, it sounds perfectly plausible. Even has what I call the ring of truth.

But I hear you, R166. Hunt is certainly not an unimpeachable source. And, he was looking for a payout to tell the story. But, I don't discount it.

One thing, Hunt stated unequivocally that one of the reasons Cord Meyer was approached, aside from him being pretty much a broken man with nothing to lose in 1963, was that Kennedy had had an affair with his wife. This was rumored, but not confirmed for sure until 10 years after Hunt's confession, when a love letter to from JFK Mary Pinchot Meyer emerged.

Whatever the case, it's all utterly fascinating!

it's weird that this guy does not understand the ANTI-civil rights groups in the USA: the klan, the john birth society and all these fascist and theocratic groups. These crazy group members are in local and state government. He was assassinated in Texas, a Republican State.

There are a lot of possibilities, and some of those possibilities involve lots of players and byzantine plot points, but IMO the simplest most straight forward explanation is that the Kennedys and the Mafia collaborated on various projects, the Kennedys and the mafia had a major falling out, so the Mafia "cut off the head of the snake."

Mary Meyer was Ben Bradlee's sister in law then. Bradlee was JFK's best friend, so it was said. Bradlee always bought the lone gunman and no conspiracy angle. Just sayin.

Eldergays where were you when Kennedy was asasinated. We’re you shaking in your little gayling boots?

[quote] Eldergays where were you when Kennedy was asasinated. We’re you shaking in your little gayling boots?

I was in first grade in Michigan. Our teacher was reading us a story, as we sat around her in a circle, when, as I recall, she left the room in tears upon receiving the news. In her absence, in a rare moment of being seized by thoughts of conspiracy,* I told my little classmates that Kennedy's death meant that "Rockefeller would be president." How I knew of Rockefeller, then governor of NY, is beyond me. Either I had thoughts of the Trilateral Commission or was thinking ahead to the Rocky's prospects now in the upcoming '64 election.

*In my dotage, I'm convinced that Oswald was the lone gunman, who most likely acted wholly on his own.

r129, Cui Bono? Who benefits?

The 1% benefited when Johnson got us into Vietnam - defense contractors, etc.

The 1% benefited when Trump got tax cuts for the wealthy, right wingers on the SCOTUS to keep the GOP in power long term.

Do remember. This was the 1960's. We had a young PResident who was hooked on James Bond novels, and our CIA was very different then from what it is now. We had a lot of CIA contractors who were involved in hits.

I really don't know - or care at this point - who killed JFK or RFK, but the extent to which RFK Jr. has no credibility of his own & continually has to remind everyone he is "A KENNEDY" and drag out the "Kennedy Family martyrdom" chestnut is an absolute joke.

Do you think this douche was bitter that JFK Jr was so FUCKING HOT!

it is quite funny how people here believe that Oswald killed JKF. Seriously??? SO many people sw Kennedy being killed from the front. End of story

^ Talk of a magic bullet. What happened to the gunman from the front? He must have magically disappeared.

R181 No, no magically. People were stopped by agents on the grassy knoll who came up out of nowhere.

^ And nearly 60 years later, the identity of these “people” has never been unearthed despite the cottage industry of conspiracists. Yeah, that’s credible.

The shooter was on the rooftop of a republican business. How come basic facts like this is lost on people?

How did this crazy guy get into a private business building with security, and then on to the roof? The people who own this business/building had to be in on it. Who would want to kill JFK? The john birth society and the Klan certainly did, these pro-theocracy and pro fascist groups.. He was assassinate in Dallas, Texas. Texas is basically HQ of the Republican Party.

Also, there was much discussion about getting off Fossil Fuels back then, and Texas is the HQ of the Oil Cartel in the USA.

R184 Lee E. Bowers,Gordon Arnold, Mary Moorman was stopped too

Maybe the people who killed JFK are the same people who had rallys about killing him back then? Who stated they want to kill JFK back then?

The oil cartel and the Klan/white supremist groups with in the Republican Party. He was killed in TEXAS.

Remember, The Republican Party just attacked the capitol and killed people. It is the same type of lies that was circulating back them to cover the republicans, the pro theocracy, pro fascists in the Republican Party. They are doing it again.

Stop falling for it.

R187 It is about Pre-Order No. 101. He deprived the FED (the Federal Reserve) of the right to the Internal Revenue Service and the state to issue the currency "Kennedy Silver Dollars". The FED was and is an operating corporation that has a monopoly on printing and lending money to the US government. Because Kennedy took the profits for the owners of the Fed, he had to die.

sorry, again : It is about Pre-Order No. 101. He deprived the FED (federal reserve) of the right to print money and began issuing the state currency "Kennedy Silver Dollars". The FED was and is a private corporation that has a monopoly on printing and lending money to the US government. Because Kennedy took the profits for the owners of the Fed, he had to die

R174 speaking of Mary Pinchot Meyer who was a long-term mistress of JFK. She kept a detailed diary which allegedly gave all the gruesome details about their affair. After his death, she got murdered and her diary stolen.

The tinhats came up with some ludicrous claim that she was murdered by the CIA because she knew JFK was going to end the Vietnam War - which he had pretty much started. Which is absolutely ludicrous given the fact JFK had zero respect for women and was a warmonger.

I figured the most harm she could do after JFK's death was her diary leaking and all the unvarnished truth about JFK's whoring around would come into the open and destroy JFK's reputation and RFK's career. I've always thought RFK ordered the hit on both Marilyn Monroe and Mary Meyer.

RFK was not the goodie-two-shoes he's been painted to be after his assassination. He was a real asshole and his Daddy's violent Enforcer.

JFK was against expanding the US military presence in Vietnam. He intended to pull out whatever troops were there after he got successfully reelected in 1964. LBJ and the Military Industrial Complex were obviously for escalating the US presence into a full out war in Vietnam. Eisenhower's parting speech when he left the presidency in 1961 was the dangerous influence of the MIC in the US. I'm not sure why people always gloss over that.

When something as huge as a Presidential assassination happens, it's such a major international event, and fairly rare, that many of us everywhere need to imbue it with stature and significance and make it complex, because such actions demand it. But the sad truth is that JFK's death was a mob hit. Period.

The mob? This is really not specific enough.

Bob Jackson, who would win the Pulitzer Prize for photography for the photograph of Ruby shooting Oswald two days later, just missed making more photographic history on 11/22/63.

"He was in the eighth vehicle behind the presidential limousine as the motorcade headed down Elm Street. Jackson was sitting atop the back seat of the convertible as the motorcade approached Dealey Plaza. He was in the process of changing film when the shots were fired; but his camera was empty. He had just removed a roll of film to hand-off to another newspaper employee, and had not yet reloaded. However, he was among the few people who thought that they saw a rifle barrel in the window of the book depository."

JFK was extremely popular and would have won a second term. Also, LBJ was extremely liked too. You are talking 8 years of progressive democrats in office. progressive for the time.

Who would benefit from killing him, the republican party?

The shooter(s) were on a privately owned skyscaper in dallas, texas, a republican stronghold. Just look at the basic facts here.

[quote] Eldergays where were you when Kennedy was asasinated. We’re you shaking in your little gayling boots?

R175 I had stayed home from school that day. I was watching a local TV show named “Teenage Beauty School” (hey, was I a little gayling or what?), when my mother called out to me from another room, “They’ve shot the President!” Not “The President has been shot!” but “THEY’VE shot the President!” I think she knew there were plenty of people who wanted him dead.

It wasn’t frightening for me because I’d already been through at least 6 months of “Duck and Cover” drills at school because of the Cuban Missile Crisis. Crouching down with my head down and my hands on the back of my head to protect myself from nuclear annihilation was a lot more personal and scary than JFK being shot. If you think current day active shooter drills are traumatic to children, imagine what nuclear bomb drills did to kids of my generation.

I have to hope the conspiracy-believers in this thread are mostly repeat posters. Otherwise, I might have to reevaluate this site. If I wanted to see crazy conspiracy posts, I'd join a MAGA site.

R199 Then do it.

[quote]It’s been reported that Jackie knew what a shit show it was at Hickory Hill and didn’t want her kids around Ethel’s out of control kids, their drug use and filth in the home. It was reported that dogs crapped in the house.

I wouldn't doubt it if the kids didn't crap on the floor. Ethel raised a bunch of animals

R198, the republicans HATED Kennedy. It was a lot like now. When word got out that he had been shot, a classroom full of children cheered.

R202 what was true in Texas at that time, and other parts of the country is that The John Birch Society and a lot of other Extreme Right assholes were very active in Texas. Adlai Stevenson, who was the the Ambassador to the United Nations (stellar performance during the Cuban Missile Crisis) was literally attacked, physically, and he urged Kennedy not to go down there it was too dangerous. But Kennedy wanted to play peacemaker with internal fighting in the Texas Democratic Party, and promised Connally and LBJ he would go. Check out the John Birch Society. Everything old is new again.

On any other thread, the conspiracy loons would annoy me. But for many reasons, I’m ok with it on this particular topic. It just feels like fair game to speculate.

If you want to learn about this case fully, a fun way to do it is to read Stephen King’s novel 11/23/63. It is incredible, I highly recommend it.

What I still don’t understand are LHO’s ties to Russia. Is it possible that *Russia* was responsible for this assassination? He for sure was in Russia, married a Russian woman. So if he was playing in or around spycrafters, the CIA contractors also make sense to me. They were all spooks, just varying degrees.

Oswald was too stupid and ill educated to be wanted by any intelligence agency, American or Russian. The only job he could get was at the book depo, and it paid very little. His bitterness set in. His wife and kids were living with Ruth Paine, and he resented that. JFK was handsome and vital, and Oswald must have wanted to strike out and destroy that since his life was so bleak. Hearing the president was passing by the building he worked in, it was just too much of a temptation to destroy a life he could never have.

There were reports JFK was shot in the throat, from the front, but the drs. did a tracheotomy so he could breathe from a shot from behind, so that confused people. And finally if people think LBJ wanted Kennedy dead, why did he plan a large Texas style barbecue for Nov. 23rd at his ranch? LBJ didn't have any reason to want JFK dead.

One must consider the Dems stole the election in 60.

LHO can't have been that dumb, he learned Russian from a book.

R197. "skyscraper"?? 🤡 or Helen Keller?

R81 I believe it. Ethel Kennedy was notorious for driving around McLean VA drunk as a skunk. Crazy nuthouse in which Ethel and Bobby raised their kids. As for RFK Jr's claims, if he truly believes that the CIA killed JFK, he's nuts. And if he doesn't and is using this for his 15 minutes of Warholian fame, shame on him. I bet Caroline Kennedy keeps him far, far away.

Kennedy's Secret Service team were notorious for their late night heavy drinking. They would be severely hung over several times a week. They were hung over the day of the assassination. I do not believe they were in any way involved, but they reportedly carried a lot of guilt over it. They adored him and his family. His death devastated them and also changes were implemented in the SS program that remain to this day. JFK was very informal and friendly with the agents. They were also told to look away many times when Jack wanted to see one of his many women on the side.

Blaine, Gerald and Lisa McCubbin. The Kennedy Detail: JFK’s Secret Service Agents Break Their Silence. New York: Gallery Books, 2010.

I have heard his Secret Service Detail liked Jackie and hated JFK for making them unwitting aides in his extra marital affairs. JFK also ordered them on Nov 22 to not block the public's view of JFK/Jackie, so their protection of him was compromised by his ego. Sad.

R204 Why americans are obssesed with russians? Believe me , you are no better.

R192 that's total bullshit and invented by Schlesinger, Sorenson et al. and then promoted by nutjob Oliver Stone to try to turn Kennedy - a warmonger if ever there was one, he almost triggered WWIII - into a lil' angel who could just float to heaven. Kennedy's bosom buddy McNamara ran the War and he was not about to lose his job under Kennedy.

I have always wondered if a mob hit on JFK and his knowledge of it is why J. Edgar Hoover never went after the Mafia, other than his complete cowardice. The Kennedys not only did not keep their bargain with the mob, Bobby went after them like a pitbull. He humiliated them in the hearings and generally made their life hell. But when he dumped Marcello in a jungle with nothing except the clothes on his back, I believe that was when he signed Jacks death warrant. CM considered that nothing less than an attempt on his life, which it really was . I was reading a book about the mafia on wasn't interested in the Kennedy assassination until I read what the FBI agents caught on those tapes. One thing I remember was the disturbing comment about Jack Ruby. Jack Ruby was devoted to his pet dogs- too devoted some thought. Just a weird bit of trivia.

Joe Kennedy depended on his ties to the mob in Chicago to get Jack elected. Then Bobby turned on them. These days people don't realize how powerful the mob was in the '60s.

Because they diidn't do it. General Walker did it.

R212, who said I think we are better than the Russians? Though now that you’re bringing it up, maybe we are just slightly, just a teeny bit better than them? I mean, looking at fucking Ukraine.

The Russians get themselves brought up by scheming and sticking their nose into other countries all the time. Are we supposed to pretend that isn’t happening because it hurts their fee-fees? Give me a break. They want to be a world power through brute force, violence, domination, and manipulation. Pardon me if I don’t use the same tone with Russia as I would for say….Japan.

R217 I didn't bring up the russia itself. "Looking at fucking Ukraine"?/ You mean you didnt invade any country in your history? ahhahahahah Gimme a break

As a retired prosecutor, I believe there was (more than) a mountain of evidence to convict Oswald of both the Kennedy & Tippit murders.

R219 quite contrary

You know when we discuss this stuff it's really important to familiarize yourself with the context. R215 points it out in their comments. Posting information about the John Birch Society is another important development at R203. The comments about the Secret Service also important. But one other to remember is that back in the 60's the Cold War was a very happening thing, and post WW II we were infatuated with the whole spy thing.

Mad Magazine had Boris and Natasha. And while our CIA had no problem hiring contractors to murder political leaders or heads of state in other countries, a lot of the "wet work" was spies killing each other off and it was stuff we never read about back then. It took The Church Committee, (Named for Senator Frank Church) to expose a lot of stuff. But the 60's were pretty wild on a lot of levels . Which is why I enjoyed Spielberg's movies like Bridge of Spies, and The Post so much. (Yes Watergate happened in the early 70's but it was still residual 60's stuff.)

By the way, the reason why Hoover constantly denied the existence of the Mafia, and refused to go after them, was because it was claimed in some book I read, a bio of Hoover, that the mob had pictures of him in a dress with a young man. That was the rumor. Whether it's true or not, the bottom line was that he knew, they knew he was Gay. As for Hoover, he hated the Kennedys and just allowed his local FBI office to cooperate with Secret Service in sharing Info, but to let the SS take the lead on the Dallas visit. It's alleged that this was not the case in Memphis. In fact Hoover hated Dr. King, and felt the biggest threat to the country was Leftists and "Communists" and there were hundreds of threats against the life of MLK, and James Earl Ray was paid off to kill King. But it could have been because of his interference in the labor dispute. The people who deal with the labor unions are some rough guys. Of course it could have also been those on the Right who felt he was a threat and a danger. Here's another really good book about the Secret Service worth reading is by Carol Leonnig Zero Fail: The Rise and Fall of the Secret Service.

Yes, there are a lot of Boris & Natasha posters here.

Even famed trial attorney Gerry Spence, who never lost, could successfully defend Oswald. A British jury convicted him.

For those interested in the assassination, I recommend a book entitled "A Cruel and Shocking Act" by Philip Shonen. Shonen is an award winning journalist, who avoids speculation and confines himself to the available evidence. The book serves as an analysis of the investigation itself, which was inept and shoddy in the extreme. The so called forensics were amateurish or nonexistent by today's standards. It is a fact that both the CIA and FBI were aware of Lee Harvey Oswald and were tracking him. They were not sharing evidence or working together. (Evocative of the 9-11 clusterfuck.) RFK Jr. is mistaken when he claims he has indisputable proof of the CIA's responsibility. Yes, there was anger among some in the agency who blamed JFK for the Bay of Pigs debacle, But there is simply insufficient proof to allege anything other than chaos, shocking ineptitude and negligence. His statements about the assassination are as fanciful as his statements about vaccines. One interesting tidbit is that RFK was allowed to take some of JFK's organs to bury at Hickory Hill, in order to avoid their being stolen by souvenir hunters. He took them away in a wooden box and it is unknown where he buried them. Unfortunately, these organs included JFK's brain, which might have yielded valuable forensic evidence.

R224 so you're saying that if we go to Arlington National Cemetery and exhume JFK's remains, we will not find internal organs or a brain? Hell, maybe they did him like the Pharoahs of ancient Egypt. Look for the canopic jars.

Looks like the loonie tunes are out in force… including of course RFK Jr.

R221- This famous photo of MLK Jr. was taken as he was leaving J. Edgar Hoovers office in shock. Reportedly JEH took him in his office and pulled out a file of all of MLKs liaisons with outside of his marriage , which oddly sounds very similar to Jfk's . MLK indulged in almost as much as JFK. It made both men vulnerable to blackmail. Hoover was a disgusting racist, just my opinion.

Quote: He viewed the civil rights movement - and its leaders -- as a subversive threat to the American way of life. He particularly hated King. Hoover was willing to use the FBI's enormous power to try to destroy people, like King, whom he considered the nation's enemies. So MLK is shown the blackmail info but back on the sixties reporters did not publish such private matters. ( Can you imagine that now?) So JEH nasty blackmail attempt failed, but not from lack of effort. Hoover was revolting. The FBI campaign against King began with wiretaps, but quickly ballooned. When wiretaps revealed that King was having extramarital affairs, the FBI shifted their focus to uncover all evidence of his infidelity by bugging and taping him in his hotel rooms and by paying informants to spy on him. Eventually, the FBI penned and sent King an anonymous letter, along with some of their tapes, suggesting that he should kill himself. Reading the letter, Pollard was struck by the fact that it was made to sound like it was written by someone close to King.

"They were trying to make it sound like it was not only a former associate but a 'Negro' who wrote that letter," he says. "This is supposed to be the nation's police, that's supposed to be doing the right thing, and this is the lengths they'll go to destroy a human being? It's awful."

Hoover was very smart. I wish I had files like that of my enemies lol

R228- I wish I could remember which book it was from, but it was a has a very amusing story about how Bobby , Ethel, heck, I think all of them, hated Hoover and loved to make him angry by leaning inappropriate letters in his comment box. Made up stories about a person's sex life because any talk of sex supposedly made Hoover very uncomfortable. ( Go figure). Finally Hoover became so livid about the sex letters that Bobby had to reluctantly ask the women to stop.

Leaving. ^

It's so funny when someone says something like "It was a mod hit. Period." Well, ok. What's your evidence. And "because it HAD to be" isn't enough.

I think the idea that it was the CIA is just as interesting as the idea of a mob hit.

But, as of now, all I can say is I don't know, but I lean toward Oswald having acted alone and on behalf of no one. But, I'm open to hearing evidence. In my mind, it used to be case closed. But no more.

MOD hit! Yeah, Peggy Lipton did it.

MOB hit, it was supposed to say. Sorry!

Oh dear, the patients have taken over the asylum in this thread.

R233 the people with critical thinking skills have taken over .

if there's smoke, there's fire...isn't that what they say?

Dorothy Kilgallen . She interviewed Jack Ruby several times before her death and was writing a book on the JFK assassination. She was murdered Nov. 8, 1965, a day before she was to travel to New Orleans, the home turf of crime boss Marcello, as she neared the end of her investigation.

Do you guys know anything about her? Is this credible? The name Marcello got my attention.

How very rude of me, I forgot the link.

Give him a CNN Town Hall.

What a liar you are. She was not murdered. She died from pills and booze.

the liar remark was meant for R236

^ Agreed.

The article claims she was murdered, her drink poisoned. But thank you anyway.

Killgallen was a drunk and adulterer. It was an accident. She had NO file on JFK that went missing. Ruby teased things to try to cop an insanity plea. Ruby never met Oswald. There would have been some kind of proof. They both lived in Dallas, and not one credible witness can place them together.

Conspiracy theories are not welcome on this site, R236.

We worship the Warren Commission report.

R239, there's reason to believe that Kilgallen met with foul play. The circumstances of her death are odd. She was found sitting up in bed in her apartment in a bedroom in which she never slept, still wearing makeup including false eyelashes. The man who found her body was the hairdresser Marc Sinclaire, who was a close friend as well as Kilgallen's personal stylist. Sinclaire immediately suspected that she had been killed. He said that Dorothy always removed her makeup before going to bed and that she was not wearing her usual bedtime attire. Dorothy was found with a book in her lap, a book which Sinclaire said she had told him she had already finished reading. Kilgallen had poor eyesight and could not read without glasses, yet no eyeglasses were in evidence. Lab tests conducted by toxicologists indicated that Kilgallen had other drugs in her system apart from alcohol and the barbiturate for which she had a prescription, a finding that should have triggered further investigation.

Since RFK Jr is so good at solving mysteries, perhaps he can illuminate u on what led to his first wife's death.

R244, the biggest issue one can have with the Warren Commission, whose 1964 conclusions have not been SERIOUSLY challenged, is that it was kept in the dark about the Kennedy dealings with Cuba.

Warren commission didnt invite all witnesses.

[quote] Warren commission didnt invite all witnesses.

Go on...

R249 what you mean by go on? You dont know that they didnt invite all witnesses?

I mean tell us what the significance of your statement is. who didn't they invite? What information did they have? Why does it matter?

R251 For instance Bill and Gayle Newman , they were in front of assasination.

And the information they could have contributed that would change everything?

R253 They told he got shot in the temple.

[quote] They told he got shot in the temple.

And is there anything to corroborate that?

To digress for a moment about MLK, Jr. As I recall reading, Hoover also confronted King about Bayard Rustin. He was Gay, he was associated with communists in the 50's and was a very close friend and advisor to King. King was forced to remove Rustin from his organization and end contact with him.. It was very painful for both of them, but Hoover was insisting that King led a Communist movement to overthrow the government, and he'd use Rustin to prove it. He wanted to make sure it went into the newspapers. Hoover's ignorance about the activism in the Black churches was stunning given his access to information.

Bill Newman:

[quote] “Ten, 12 feet in front of us, the third shot rang out, and that’s when the side of his head flew off and I could remember seeing” the blood, Bill Newman said. “I turned to Gayle and I said, that’s it, hit the ground.”

R255 It is job of warren commission, not mine.

Except you are implying that there is something they should have asked them but their testimony was recorded and non-controversial so why would they need to interview them? You are implying there is a reason to interview them and that they could have contributed something significant when the fact is they had nothing making an interview useful.

R259 Are you serious? All witnesses should be invited, not those who claimed that shots came ONLY from the buidling. And he didnt because said that kennedy got in the front

[quote] Are you serious?

I am serious.

[quote] All witnesses should be invited

Not ones whose interviews would contribute nothing beyond their already recorded statements.

[quote] And he didnt because said that kennedy got in the front

Where did he say that?

"a gun shot apparently from behind us ....hit the president in the right side of the temple"

"apparently"

Because they didn't actually see anything to indicate that. There is nothing spectacular or concrete there.

R263 of course they didnt see it.., it was behind their backs!!! but IT SHOULD BE INVESTIGATED , idiot

[quote] but IT SHOULD BE INVESTIGATED , idiot

So, your argument is that the Warren Commission didn't even consider or investigate the possibility of a shooter from another angle?

R263 Find assasination video from the time, not the zapruder one!!! There is another video and we see grassy knoll! And people on the stair after fatal shot TURNED THEIR HEADS because they felt it was from behind!

Yes, that's how sound works.

You are moving the goalposts. There is nothing the Newmans could have contributed of use to the Warren Commission. Their statements were already on the record.

R267 no, thats not how sound works. hahaha, Of course the newmans couldnt have contributed anything because warren comission decided already before commission had started that fatal shot came front the building and they didnt want any contradicting theories

[quote] They told he got shot in the temple.

So it was at a reform synagogue?

Do the Warren skeptics also question Gerry Spence's defense of Oswald, in abstentia, that resulted in a guilty verdict?

[quote]One must consider the Dems stole the election in 60.

Indeed they did, by way of Joe Kennedy Sr's mob ties in Chicago. Giancana etc. helped them throw Illinois. Re-read r215.

Hoover's power was derivative of two things: he was from the military which has more power than Americans like to think; and he didn't travel, which exposes you to trouble. In a city like Washington which is mostly transient, that was very real, very tangible power.

They did not steal the election in 1960. Tha has been debunked many times.

R273 the 1960 election was really close. REALLY CLOSE. And if Nixon chose to he could have done an investigation and raised hell, demanded a recount, etc. But he didn't. Because he knew why it was SO CLOSE.

Wiki: "Kennedy won a 303 to 219 Electoral College victory, and he won the reported national popular vote by 112,827, a margin of 0.17 percent."

R271, I would agree and only say that it wasn't just Illinois.

I've read a lot. I do think there was a second shooter and he was hired by the mafia. Giancana related.

IF you ever found out the list of Mafia leaders who had an interest in opening up Havana to gambling you'd make a good start at finding out who was involved. The main names I Recall from all my reading are Sam Giancana, Johnny Roselli, and in NEw Orleans, Carlos Marcello. It was his involvement that exposes the CIA contractors/Cuban connection. because he was a key player in the Bay of Pigs fiasco, moving weapons and providing training camps in Louisiana, as well as in central America. The Agency didn't trust central America because it as too easy for Castro supporters to infiltrate.

Bobby Kennedy was the attorney general at the time. I read somewhere that at the end of the document/Warren report was a space for his signature. He never signed it.

Why was Joan Crawford in Dallas on 11/22/63? Why hasn’t she been added to the suspect list.

Maybe JFK fucked Tina Darling, or gave Joan Syphilis in the 30s, rendering her sterile and forcing her to adopt those brats.

I bet she used her entire bag of sexual tricks to set up Oswald as a patsy.

Even had Illinois and Texas flipped JFK still would have won. How dense are these republican idiots?

Yesterday, he said Trump is the greatest debater since Abe Lincoln. No shit. Abe Lincoln. All that heroin f'd up his brain.

kILLGALLEN probably had no TIME to take off her make up because SHE DIED BEFORE SHE COULD. Jesus, is that that hard to understand?

People have been trying to put words in The Newman's mouth for years. They never said there was a shooter from The Knoll, just behind them, which was the book depository.

Oh. my. God. We've got the whole crowd here from Dealey Plaza....

there was zero reason/benefit for the Italian mafia or the catholic church to kill the first catholic president.

R284, oh you think the Italian mafia gave a fuck about a Catholic President... They certainly gave a fuck about Bobby Kennedy stabbing them in the back.

Oswald was not on the radar of the mafia, CIA, FBI or any agency because he was a nobody, a loser who could not spell. He got the job at the book depository because that's ALL he could get. His bitterness ate away at him. He saw that his wife was attracted to JFK, and since she taunted him about his manhood it drove him MAD. He hated what Jack Kennedy was, and what he could never be. He realized he had the chance to destroy the man and show everyone what he could do. It's that simple. Poor Ruth Paine, judged for years to have gotten him the job because she was CIA. She was a loving mother, abandoned lonely wife who took in a poor family because the husband couldn't support them. Her feelings for Marina were sisterly. They were not lesbians.

Oswald was not on the radar of the mafia, CIA, FBI or any agency because he was a nobody, a loser who could not spell. He got the job at the book depository because that's ALL he could get. His bitterness ate away at him. He saw that his wife was attracted to JFK, and since she taunted him about his manhood it drove him MAD. He hated what Jack Kennedy was, and what he could never be. He realized he had the chance to destroy the man and show everyone what he could do. It's that simple. Poor Ruth Paine, judged for years to have gotten him the job because she was CIA. She was a loving mother, abandoned lonely wife who took in a poor family because the husband couldn't support them. Her feelings for Marina were sisterly. They were not lesbians.

R284, the Mafia didn't give two shits whether or not JFK was Catholic. The Mafia had at least two reasons to hit JFK. Cuba, and the fact that Kennedy didn't keep his word, and Bobby was going after them. Old man Joe Kennedy could have told his sons not to piss off the goombahs, but his stroke left him paralyzed.

He was Assassinated by the theocratic/white supremist/fascist fractions in the Republican Party. The shooter was on the roof of a privately owned building in Dallas, Texas. This is basically the HQ of the Republican Party. These are the same republican groups that threatened the life of President Obama and just attack the capitol, the insurrectionists.

R286/287, while I otherwise agree with you, I wouldn't go so far as to say he wasn't on anbody's radar. He was - I mean he made the NYT as a 20-year old for emigrating to the USSR - but the authorities simply dropped the ball. And I don't believe that was because of nefarious reasons.

R287 How much they pay you for such shit?

R289, those elements were certainly present in Texas and particularly Dallas. About a month before JFK went to Texas, UN Ambassador Adlai Stevenson was attacked there, after a speaking engagement. I think it happened on the sidewalk outside his hotel, and he begged JFK not to go because of the extremists elements, but he was ignored. JFK felt like he had to do this because he had promised his VP and Gov. Connally he would. The John Birch Society were active back then and they were extremists with the same agenda as today's MAGAs. Tea Party, etc. all sing from the same hymn book. The Birchers certainly celebrated JFK's assassination, and there were others on the Right as well, b ut the actual hit was done by contractors paid by the Mafia guys. I'm 99% convinced on that score.

R292 pretty obvious the hit was by the mafia manipulating Castro sympathizers and notably Oswald. Jack Ruby taking out Oswald was too blatant. It is ironic that JFK and RFK tried to assassinate Fidel and they both ended up assassinated.

You killed my president!!!!! hahahahhahahahahhahah only stupid americans could believe in it

My old Aunties were rich and big gamblers. They used to go to Havana a couple of times a year before Castro arrived on the scene. They said it was run by the mafia - just like Las Vegas.

[quote] pretty obvious the hit was...

Right, because of all the evidence you provided.

Giancana provided the evidence and then he got murdered.

[quote] Giancana provided the evidence...

Is it in the same place as the mythical Biden whistleblowers?

[quote] Jack Ruby taking out Oswald was too blatant.

Except that, even though he was in Oswald's presence Friday night, he allowed him to live ... and talk until Sunday morning!!!

R299, Ruby wasn't "in Oswald's presence Friday and Saturday. Oswald was in jail, and being questioned at that time. When they were getting ready to transfer Oswald to another location Ruby was in the police garage waiting to shoot him IMO Ruby, who knew a lot of cops, and low level thugs from his strip club, the Carousel, was informed of the opportunity and was in the right place at the wrong time. It was not impulsive, it was premeditated.

[quote] Ruby wasn't "in Oswald's presence Friday and Saturday.

That's not what he said. Go back and read it again. (And where was your quotation supposed to end?)

NO, he said "even though he was in Oswald's presence Friday night,..." and I said he wasn't because Oswald was under arrest and being questioned by the DPD.

Ruby was indeed in Oswald's presence that weekend before shooting him Sunday morning:

"Ruby was seen in the halls of the Dallas Police Headquarters on several occasions after Oswald's arrest for the murder of Dallas policeman J. D. Tippit on November 22, 1963. He was present at an arranged press meeting with Oswald. A reporter asked Oswald, "Did you kill the President?" and Oswald answered, his voice breaking, "No, I have not been charged with that. In fact, nobody has said that to me yet. The first thing I heard about it was when the newspaper reporters in the hall asked me that question.""

[quote] When they were getting ready to transfer Oswald to another location Ruby was in the police garage waiting to shoot him

Complete mischaracterization of the facts, but very typical of conspiracists.

The Mary Pinchot Meyer case reminded me so much of Chandra Levy. I still think Gary Condit is guilty as hell.

Scroll down to the second photo to see Ruby, together with reporters, at the Oswald press conference.

Putting it plainly and simply, jr. is a nutter!

Take your toy crib and just go away, why don't ya!

I stand corrected. You're right, I'm wrong. I had no idea Ruby was present at that news conference.

R301 so it was not premeditated because he saw him twice??

[quote] so it was not premeditated because he saw him twice??

I said no such thing. It's no surprise that conspiracy theorists have a problem with reading comprehension, but come on!

R310 so what did you SAID? what is your point? he didnt kill him first day at press conference ..so what?

*so what did you say, sorry

My point was that what I quoted in r301 was not true. What is confusing you?

I enjoy vegan cheese in Chinese Paris.

[quote] [R301] so it was not premeditated because he saw him twice??

The conspiracy believers posit that Ruby was hired to silence Oswald. If so, why would he not silence him the first opportunity he had? Does it make any sense to the reasonable person that the forces behind this "hit job" would have afforded Oswald ANY time to talk? Of course, if there a conspiracy behind the assassination, the powers that be would never have allowed Oswald to get out of the TSBD Building alive.

"conspiracy believers" lol So if he was hired , he would take him out on the first approach? Is that your argument that he wasnt hired?

Nobody has to prove Oswald wasn't hired. YOU have to prove he was.

[quote] So if he was hired , he would take him out on the first approach? Is that your argument that he wasnt hired?

Exactly. Unless the "dark forces" were more of a laissez-faire sort, if they hired Ruby - of all people (!!!) - to silence Oswald, they would have wanted him dead, stat. Before he was "silent" no longer.

If I've said it once, I'll say it a million times: I think the Mob killed JFK, with the blessing of the intel community.

Why? Well, when you think about it, the U.S. government has never actually had a huge problem with the Mafia. It took one crusader who finally had to resort to tax evasion charges to nail Al Capone; no one was looking too hard for the guy, because organized crime is useful if you emphasize "organized." Solving crime becomes a lot easier when you always know who's responsible, and if it's not performed out in the open, we conduct periodic arrests to keep the books straight, and especially if we get a cut of the take, the government generally doesn't care.

(Frankly, organized crime has always kept the peace and even been fairly more progressive than the government, though often for selfish ends. Look at how they ran gay clubs back in the day; say what you will about the poor conditions and underhanded business tactics forced on them by society, but the O.G.s saw a business opportunity and provided the LGBT community with a much-needed haven at a time when the rest of the country was still hostile and unwelcoming. But I digress...)

Truth be told, we've made use of the Mob for our harder jobs on more than one occasion. Google "Operation Underworld" and "Operation Husky", to say nothing of the aforementioned-in-this-thread attempts to take out Castro and Greg "The Grim Reaper" Scarpa turning informer for the FBI and solving the fire-bombing of Vernon Dahmer in Mississippi with the help of pistol-whipping skills to the tune of 30 grand.

The Mob put money, muscle, and considerable influence into JFK's election at the instigation of his father, who they knew from way back as a bootlegger. They were led to believe that things would be the same as always, or even improve. And, though -- tellingly -- he never looked into voter fraud, RFK, who'd learned nothing from his old man about welshing on deals, was appointed to head the Justice Department and made fighting organized crime a priority. As Victor Navasky put it in his book, [italic]Kennedy Justice[/italic], "...ever since Prohibition... attorneys general have been ‘declaring war’ on organized crime, but Robert Kennedy was the first to fight one."

So they bit back. JFK found out a Dallas welcome only lasts about twelve seconds, and they ain't pretty. As he'd already pissed off other machinery in high places, machinery that wasn't upset to see him dead for reasons of their own but also didn't want to admit the Mob could take them out so swiftly and decisively with one blow, the nets descended and the cover-up began.

Jim Garrison says in the film [italic]JFK[/italic], "Could the mob change the parade route, or eliminate the protection for the President? Could the mob send Oswald to Russia and get him back? Get the FBI, the CIA, and the Dallas Police to mess up the investigation? Get the Warren Commission appointed to cover it up? Wreck the autopsy? Influence the national media to go to sleep?" No, they couldn't, not that some of that stuff happened to begin with. But the people who could do it were afraid of looking weak because they underestimated "scrappy thugs" who took out the big cheese and revealed just how fragile they were. And being afraid of looking weak is as American as apple pie.

Who was Mary Pinchot Meyer a danger to? JFK's Sainted Memory and Bobby Kennedy's blind ambition. Like Marily Monroe, she had to go.

Jim Garrison was a mentally ill, homophobic attention whore.

From what I read, Ruby was an unstable guy, and I don't think you'd need to do more than feed his instability. Convince him it's the right thing to do, and he would love it. Vengeance! But I can understand, if Ruby was indeed put up to it., he'd have to do recon. To see what the best set up was. And maybe his cop buddies invited him to the press conference. Think about it. After Oswald was gunned down, there would be all these photos of stalker Ruby. And I would not put it past one of his cop cronies to say words to the effect, " We're going to transfer him out of here Sunday morning. That's when he's most vulnerable, in the police garage." Now as for as I know Ruby was familiar with getting in and out of the police garage.

r319 continued:

Since I sense some of you won't do the requisite Googling, here's an explanation of three things I spoke about:

[bold]Operation Underworld[/b]: Picture it, New York City, World War II. Italian and German agents are scurrying into the U.S. like rats through the port. The Office of Naval Intelligence doesn't know what to do to prevent it. Hundreds of agents are assigned to sniff out Mussolini supporters among the Italian-American dockworkers and fishermen on the waterfront. No luck, 'cause Italians don't snitch and stick to their own kind. So, in desperate times, desperate measures are called for. Who do they call? Meyer Lansky. Who does he put them in touch with? Lucky Luciano, doing 30 to 50 for pimping at "New York's Little Siberia" upstate. There's a war on, can't take chances. They transfer Lucky closer to NYC. "We commute your sentence, you help us out." Lucky agreed: no dockworker strikes during the war (and after the deal was reached, not even a whiff of a strike), and we'll gather intelligence for the Navy.

[bold]Operation Husky[/bold]: The follow-up to the above. Who found Sicilians to help naval intel draw maps of Sicilian harbors and dig up old snapshots of the coastline? Luciano's people. Who became an interpreter and adviser to the U.S. Army military government in Naples, and was widely regarded as one of their most trusted employees? Vito Genovese. And thanks to the contacts gleaned during "Operation Underworld," the names of Sicilian underworld personalities and trustworthy friendly natives were obtained and used in the operation. The JSP at the Joint Chiefs of Staff drafted a report titled [italic]Special Military Plan for Psychological Warfare in Sicily[/italic] that recommended the "establishment of contact and communications with the leaders of separatist nuclei, disaffected workers, and clandestine radical groups, e.g., the Mafia, and giving them every possible aid," a report approved in spring 1943.

[bold]Scarpa/Dahmer[/bold]: Start with what we know about Gregory "The Grim Reaper" Scarpa. Notorious hitman and a fascinating character in general. He turned informant for the FBI, plying other mobsters with cash, jewelry, liquor, and prostitutes, in exchange for confidential information on suspected rats and rivals. (Even continued to kill his enemies while undercover.) And the Jackson office of the FBI found him especially helpful for a particular "special assignment." The KKK had fatally fire-bombed NAACP leader Vernon Dahmer Sr. in Hattiesburg, Mississippi on June 10, 1966. They'd tried everything for a break in the case but had no leads. So who did the dirty work? Scarpa heads out to Mississippi and goes to a hotel, the FBI meets him with a gun. He and an agent target a particular Klansman, Lawrence Byrd, as he's closing up his radio and TV service for the day. They buy a TV and ask his help carrying it to the car... where Byrd is pistol-whipped into oblivion. Hardly a coincidence that a severely beaten Byrd subsequently signed a 22-page statement to the FBI in which he confessed and implicated others and that Scarpa returned home with $30,000 in his pocket. (If this sounds familiar, but the case seems wrong, Scarpa's former companion later attached this to the case immortalized in the movie [italic]Mississippi Burning[/italic]. She claims he told her this, and indeed those who embellish "war stories" are capable of exaggeration, but the FBI's files tie him to the Dahmer case.)

Ruby worked for the mafia and kept his trap shut in prison just like he was told to do.

R324 he was a very low level gangster for years earlier, but his Carousel Bar was a place were cops and gangsters usually intersected. In addition, Ruby was a snitch. He loved to gossip with his cop buddies.

Do hit men aim for the midsection?

Center of mass, R326. When you shoot people in the abdomen or the chest the shot is more likely to be fatal.

Abdomen shots take longer and they are a lot more painful, and very bloody. My sister was once an ER nurse and she hated the gun shot victims.

I'd like to confirm where in the body a hit man would aim for maximum success, but I worry about creating an inculpating internet search history. You know, just in case.

As young Bobby is the Walmart of conspiracists, I'd like his take on whether his old man had Marilyn knocked off.

No he was killed by the MOB. I like that he brings light to publicly accepted half truths.

He got his mom’s intelligence. Ethel didn’t pay attention to her pack or crotch goblins and Hickory Hill was dubbed “Horror Hill” and the kids “the Hyannis Port Terrors.” Jackie On assistance kept her kids away from them

Ethel kept company with Andy Williams a mediocre singer with a TV show. They held hands a lot, and he sang The Battle Hymn of the Republic for her, and then they would say three Our Fathers and three Hail Marys. Andy's biggest claim to fame was introducing the Osmond Brothers to the world.

Andy Williams was a close friend of Bobby’s, R333. And one of his pallbearers. He sang “Battle Hymn of the Republic” at the funeral. You seriously undervalue his success. He had a number of hits in the ‘60s. And, apart from his eponymous variety show, his family Christmas shows were hugely popular well into the ‘70s.

Vanna White and Pat Whatsis were "very popular" too. Andy was bland and mediocre. Just the formula to be "very popular" back then. He was a cut above LAwrence Welk, though. And He wasn't a close personal friend of Bobby's. I think that got inflated. I'm sure it mattered a lot to Bobby, who was running for office, to have a very popular Middle America Guy on his bandwagon.

I think this might be "news" to a younger generation whose historical familiarity is limited to their social media TikTok or Instagram accounts' posts both current and up to 3 days ago, but otherwise this conspiracy option has just been one of many that have been bandied about as being the source of JFK's assassination, going back actually to the 1960s.

[Quote] Andy's biggest claim to fame was introducing the Osmond Brothers to the world.

What about me?

[quote] And He wasn't a close personal friend of Bobby's

Au contraire.

If JFK was killed by the mob/mafia, why not declassify all the documents? Surely our government isn't covering for organised crime; or is it?

R339 From all I have read over the years, it was a conspiracy planned by the mob with anti-Castro Cubans and backed by the CIA. And it's probable LBJ was involved. The reason was JFK's stance against the US troop involvement of the Vietnam situation and his softening views on Cuba, he did not want the US to take out Castro. There was already a covert plan to assassinate Castro, but he decided against it, so those involved took JFK out instead. The mob had very lucrative gun running and drug trafficking operations in Asia and Latin America and wanted to expand it, and the anti-war policy would have put an end to all of the that. After the JFK shooting the US government was doing everything it could to cover up their involvement by eliminating just about all the witnesses and those who wouldn't go along with their Lee Harvey Oswald lone gunman narrative and single bullet theory.

Dorothy Kilgallen: The Reporter Who Knew Too Much

How can anyone seriously believe that Donald Trump would not have divulged any secrets about the JFK assassination?

[quote] The same Mafia that had Jimmy Hoffa murdered years later.

I've read your theory about JFK elsewhere and it seems credible, R28, but what's the rationale behind the Hoffa disposal by the Mafia?

The Mafia may have helped, but the control of evidence, planning, cover up are all CIA. Fucking Biden is protecting the agency by dismantling the doc drop.

[quote] I found it difficult to believe, contrived, and the single bullet theory to be borderline absurd.

So many grifters, gaslighters (hmmm, where else have we seen such actors?) behind the "single" or "magic" bullet theory. Every such claim that offers a reenactment ALWAYS has Connally seated directly in front of JFK, when, in fact, he was in the jump seat, to the left of the president. Facts are stubborn things.

[quote] By the way, two men in this story were eventually arrested in public restrooms looking for sex with dudes. Walter Jenkins, and Walker. Walker was a right wing neo Nazi loon.

At least Walker had one redeeming quality.

One of the biggest surprises on this nascent 2024 election cycle so far: RFK Jr is just so fucking boring.

Also, Trump is looking and sounding really old. I think he just doesn't have the mojo... the longer it goes on the more his support will erode.

If Uncle Joe doesn't have a stroke, he'll be re-elected.

R97, I see Joan but is Vicky there?