All About Eve - Bill Simpson?

D’oh!!

Somebody fucked up and for whatever reason it was never corrected. It's Bill Sampson.

Thank you, R2 :)

Did you notice that in the last scene where Phoebe is taking her bow in the mirror, you can see the cameraman at the top of the scene?

Datalounge detectives, noticing inconsistencies in All About Eve and the Golden Girls

I just watched this movie for the first time tonight. It really is as good as I've always heard.

Speaking of Phoebe, is she really president of the Eve Harrington fan club, an actress who’s only credits are one-night understudy and a Broadway play that’s only been running a few months? Phoebe says the fan clubs are all over the country,

Or did she just wanna chow down on Eve’s muff?

By the way, I was always under the impression that Bette Davis had won the Best Actress Oscar for this movie but she and Anne Baxter both lost to Judy Holliday. Having watched the film tonight, my theory is that they probably canceled each other out (paving the way for Holliday).

R6- You’re in good company! That’s exactly what Bette Davis herself said she thought in an interview I saw (maybe it was with Dick Cavett, but I’m not sure).

R8 it’s more Bette Davis vs Gloria Swanson. If there was ever a year that should have been a tie, it was then.

I’d have voted for Gloria. Norma is one of my favorite screen creations of all time and Bette already had 2 Oscar’s. But they’re both equally sensational performances.

Oops, I meant reply 9 to answer R8 , not R6. Sorry to you both.

"Oh shit, good manners!"

Yes, Eve's star rises during one theatre season and BAM! she's off to Hollywood. Phoebe is most definitely a lesbian and so is Eve.

OP, I was both R6 and R8. Thanks!

Here's a very fun and interesting documentary about the film

[quote]R7 Is Phoebe really president of the Eve Harrington fan club, an actress who’s only credits are one-night understudy and a Broadway play that’s only been running a few months? Phoebe says the fan clubs are all over the country,

Phoebe is lying and being manipulative.

That actress killed herself in her early 40s, BTW, after her career never really took off.

Watched it the first time today? Where have you been? Everyone else can recite it word for word.

[quote]R13 Phoebe is most definitely a lesbian and so is Eve.

Some writer pointed out that one of the only times you see Eve smile sincerely is after her female friend at the boarding house hangs up the phone, having lied for her.

FADE OUT (slurp slurp)

[quote]R17 Watched it the first time today? Where have you been? Everyone else can recite it word for word.

You’re too short for that gesture.

The closing credits read:

STAGE MANAGER . . EDDIE FISHER

Obviously, his role was deleted.

“Eddie Fisher is credited in the cast as 'Stage Manager,' although all of his scenes were cut from the released print. This is not the the singer Eddie Fisher, but another actor.

The film opens straightaway with its own theme, without the ubiquitous "Fox Fanfare".”

They basically remade this with Loni Anderson and Linda Hamilton playing country singers.

[italic]Better than the original!!

“Better than the original!!“

Oh, dear!

Davis must've been peeved to the max that Baxter's nomination cancelled hers out, given the difference in standard between their two performances. Davis was at the top of her form, while Baxter could have given the same performance in The Bold and the Beautiful and not looked out of place.

R24 That is correct. Davis was not happy at all about that. She said something along the lines of ... I really enjoyed working with Anne, and thought she gave a fine performance. Even for her own good, she should have been nominated in supporting and it would have worked out better all around.

[quote]Bette already had 2 Oscar’s.

Oh, dear.

Did not even know this: Anne Baxter had a stroke on December 4, 1985, while hailing a taxi on Madison Avenue in New York City. Baxter remained on life support for eight days in New York's Lenox Hill Hospital, until family members agreed that brain function had ceased. She was 62.

R6 The film is based on a 1946 short story in Cosmopolitan "The Wisdom of Eve" by Mary Orr, of an actual incident involving Austrian actress Elisabeth Bergner during her run in the hit stage thriller "The Two Mrs. Carrolls" in 1943-44.

R27, She had just exited Bloomingdale’s after Christmas shopping. I read that she collapsed to the ground and some pedestrians were walking over and around her.

R29 Wow - scary

Barbara Bates (Phoebe) also had a role in a later Marilyn Monroe picture "Let's Made It Legal", released in 1952 when MM was on the cusp of superstardom

The audiobook version of Sam Staggs' All About "All About Eve" is terrific. The narrator, Donald Corren, is legendary. Highly recommend it.

Anne Baxter would have lost the Best Supporting Actress Oscar because the voters would obviously have seen her as playing a leading role. They would never have voted for her as "supporting" - it certainly had had happened before.

All About All About Eve is must for any fan of the film.

Even if Bette had won for AAE she would not have been satisfied and wanted a fourth.

Bette said in interviews that she wanted to be the first Best Actress to win three times, but Hepburn took care of that.

Walter Brennan was the first actor to win three, but they were for Best Supporting Actor.

R32, that's one of my favourite audiobooks, too! The author and the narrator both manage to do the movie justice - quite an achievement considering how highly regarded the movie is. It helps that the bare facts surrounding the making of the film are fascinating in themselves and the author was wise enough to know it and to treat us to it all.

That’s what happened to me, DL fave, Ben Platt! I was in a show, won a Tony and headed off to Hollywood, acrylic nails, receded hairline, and hairy shoulders in tow. Now I’m a major Hollywood A-lister, with fan clubs all over the world! It’s me, 17-time Oscar nominee, six-time Emmy winner Ben Platt!

OP, your goof (along with many others) is noted in the IMDB "Goofs" section for this film.

It’s a great film but Merrill’s scene about”the thee-ay- tah” is so cheesy.

Oh Anne Baxter always had the worst cunt breath...

and I don't have to tell you how nasty Bette's snatch was.

In the late 90s there were rumors it was going to have an updated version with Meryl and.......GOOP!

The nicest thing I can say about Bette's body, with her low-bosom and her distended belly, was that it was perfect for holding a ashtray when she was lying on her back and smoking in bed...

and she was frequently doing that.

[quote]That actress killed herself in her early 40s, BTW, after her career never really took off.

She still had her son, Norman.

Someone should've told Davis, it wasn't called, "All About Margo."

Bette would have won had she gone Supporting

^ As if Bette's ego would have evah allowed her to go Supporting...

Bette used to boast that she never took below the title billing.

Barbara Stanwyck seemed to be a humble person.

I wonder if this billing ever embarrassed her.

[quote]I wonder if this billing ever embarrassed her.

It didn't.

Anne Baxter later said she did regret being submitted for the best actress category - right or wrong

Bette said when she needed tears in a crying scene, she'd pull hairs from her nose.

Imagine if it had been made with Claudette Colbert and Jeanne Crain who were the first choices. Crain is a Phoebe, not an Eve.

[quote]Bette would have won had she gone Supporting

No fucking way is Margo a supporting role. But Eve isn't one, either.

[quote]R52 Bette said when she needed tears in a crying scene, she'd pull hairs from her nose.

Loni Anderson did the same thing, but it was hairs from her peroxided pussy.

Anne Baxter always pinged hard (at least for me) in every movie she was in, including The Razor's Edge, where she looked and played more femme. Also that Columbo episode. It's partly her voice but also something else. Can't put my finger on it.

Was she really straight?

[quote] Bette said when she needed tears in a crying scene, she'd pull hairs from her nose.

I got the idea from darling Joan! She said when she needed to cry, she'd pull a tooth.

From her CUNT!

r56 She often wore her hair in a lesbian-adjacent style.

I always thought Margo and Eve had an equal amount of screentime especially since Margot pretty much disappears for the last 20 mins or so.

R59, That’s the problem Comden and Green had in adapting it for Applause, how to bring the focus back on Margo.

Thanks, R39 -there's some interesting info at that link!

I've been thinking about the casting, and ended up sorting the actors chosen like this: 1. - Practically perfect, iconic, just great; 2. -Really well cast, a pleasure; 3) -Very good; believable; 4.) - I wouldn't have cast him/her in that role 5. - Totally miscast

1. Bette Davis (Margo), Thelma Ritter (Birdie)

2. George Sanders ((Addison), Marilyn Monroe (Miss Casswell), Gregory Ratoff (Max Fabian)

3. Anne Baxter (Eve), Celeste Holm (Karen) (She might belong in the group directly above, though; I can't decide)

4. Gary Merrill (Bill) -I know that he and Bette Davis were having an affair in real life and even eventually got married, so that attraction created sparks in the movie, which was a positive, but I found him kind of sleazy and unattractive in his role, so I guess I would never have cast him in the first place. I don't know who would have been a better choice; maybe it'll come to me,. Can anyone here come up with someone?

5. Hugh Marlowe (Lloyd Richards) - So stiff, dull, wooden. I couldn't buy him as a creative writer type for an instant. No chemistry with any of the other characters, including Karen or Eve (I liked him in some old b&w TV shows though, where he played characters that suited him better.)

Merrill and Marlowe are sort of interchangable in this. Neither really stands out and watching this film last night, having not watched it in years, Merril's monologue to Eve at the beginning is underwhelming. Also, he doesn't look 32 years old or eight years younger than Davis (who looked much closer to a contemporary 50 than 40 in this film, though she still looks great.)

R61 - some writers are very dull in person.

Well, what do you think of my elegant new suit? You know, all it needed was a little taking in here and letting out there… are you sure you won’t want it, yourself?

R12- The correct quote is-

Oh SHIT , Manners.

I do love the scene in the dressing room where Eve is wearing Margot's wig and costume after having just gone on. The wig was to small for her head and the dress was too tight. It's a nice touch since Baxter was clearly bigger than Davis.

[quote]The wig was to small for her head and the dress was too tight. It's a nice touch since Baxter was clearly bigger than Davis.

Well, it was the same wig and dress, so they were gonna do what they were gonna do.

You have a point; an idiotic one, but a point.

No one voted for Anne Baxter that year. Let's just get that straight. She didn't "siphon off" anyone's votes

Yep, the split votes were between Bette and Gloria.

R59 according to Screen Time Central Bette was onscreen for just under 60 minutes of the running time (43%) and Anne had 53 minutes (just over 38%) so they were pretty equal..

Personally, I like that Bette didn't win over Gloria and vice a...verse a.

R71 out of the 5 nominees Glo had the least screen time with 44 minutes. Judy Holliday had the most with 74 minutes

[quote] It’s a great film but Merrill’s scene about”the thee-ay- tah” is so cheesy.

I agree, it is rather cringe-inducing. Baxter should have won some award for taking his spiel seriously. Really, it's the only "thud" in the whole movie.

R71 I hope you're joking with "vice a...verse a"

I wrote what I meant to write, r74.

Birdie, get r38 a milkshake.

All About Eve was the last time Bette Davis really looked fabulous in a film. Just two years later in The Star she looked haggard and had aged pretty hard. She remained haggy looking and prematurely aged for the rest of her career.

The constant drinking and smoking took a big toll on her looks.

I don’t understand why Eve auditioning for a role caused so much upset. Will someone please explain?

R77 Wow, only two years between these two films. She was styled pretty masterfully as Eve, but yes she aged pretty dramatically in the short span of time between these two films.

The Star is some pretty delicious bitchcraft. My favorite line is delivered by an old lady in the department store where Davis’ character Margaret Lawrence is reduced to selling lingerie. “THAT can’t be Margaret Lawrence! She’s IN JAIL!”

^^Davis’ character was named Margaret Elliott, not Lawrence . D’oh.

Joan probably came second in the 1952 votes for her wonderful performance in "Sudden Fear".

Sudden Fear is a great movie.

[quote]I don’t understand why Eve auditioning for a role caused so much upset. Will someone please explain?

You're remembering the film incorrectly. Eve was hired as Margo's understudy and nobody bothered to tell Margo, who only found out when she showed up at the theater to read with Miss Casswell, who was auditioning to be a replacement in "Aged in Wood." Margo was late, as usual, and was told that the audition was over and that Eve, Margo's "new understudy," had read with Miss Caswell.

Anne Baxter's voice sounds so much like young Kathleen Turner.

Big lez

Another interesting short clip

But Alive...

r84, she reminds me of Suzanne Pleshette.

I liked butch adjacent brunettes as well as icy blondes!

the Hodiaks

R29

Considering Anne Baxter collapsed on Madison avenue and Bloomingdales is two blocks east on Lexington don't see anything "just exited" about it.

I mean it's not like she walked out onto Third or Lexington and dropped.

Wonder which hairdresser Ms. Baxter used on Madison avenue back then.

Ms. Baxter joined a rather extensive list of "Who's Who" that died at Lenox Hill Hospital.

Baxter barreled down the bulldagger highway in “East of Eden,” playing the whorehouse madam who procures Jane Seymour.

They enter into a possessive relationship that ends with a broken champagne glass to the throat.

John Hodiak looks like Martin Landau in that picture at R90. Hodiak played Judy Garland's love interest in "The Harvey Girls."

I always mix Hugh Marlowe up with Richard Carlson and usually have to look at the credits to see which one I'm watching.

with Grandpa Frank...

R73, I also find Karen's line, "I guess I'm what the French call 'de tropp'," and Bill's response, "Just a little around the edges," to be very clunky--overwritten and unnecessary. There were a few other moments like that for me, but most of the dialog is excellent. I watched it the other night for about the fifth time and really laughed at Bette's delivery of some of her lines. She was so gifted. I wish she could have won the Oscar for this movie, but not everyone who deserves one can win when there are so many great performances in a given year.

Bette should've won for All About Eve and Baby Jane. She was so pissed she lost for Baby Jane, she had a chip on her shoulder about it for the rest of her life.

“… but not everyone who deserves one can win when there are so many great performances in a given year.“

So true.

Does Birdie (Thelma Ritter) sort of disappear from the film before it's over? Thinking back on it, I don't seem to recall seeing her anymore after the film's halfway point, though perhaps I'm just not remembering correctly.

Yes, famously so, r101.

Thelma Ritter was always wonderful in every film she was in. I know it's unlikely that DLers have never seen Rear Window, but if anyone hasn't you should definitely watch it. Fantastic, suspenseful film that still holds up remarkably well.

Actually the film all Dataloungers should watch for Thelma Ritter is A Letter to Three Wives. You really gets the impression that Joe Mankiewicz became utterly entranced with Thelma and kept writing more dialogue and scenes for her as shooting progressed (that really have little to do with the rest of the movie).

[quote]Did not even know this: Anne Baxter had a stroke on December 4, 1985, while hailing a taxi on Madison Avenue in New York City. Baxter remained on life support for eight days in New York's Lenox Hill Hospital, until family members agreed that brain function had ceased. She was 62.

In case no one has mentioned it already, remember too that Anne took over the matriarch role in the TV series "Hotel" from Bette, who got sick and had to step aside:

[quote]Bette Davis appeared in the pilot episode as hotel owner Laura Trent, and publicity for the series indicated that Davis was to be a regular on the program. However, the onset of ill health forced Davis to withdraw from the series and Anne Baxter, who had played her nemesis in the 1950 film All About Eve, was brought in as Victoria Cabot, Mrs. Trent's sister-in-law. When Davis' health improved it was intended to bring her back; however, with Baxter on board fulfilling the series matriarchal role it was decided to make Davis' character an offscreen character, who though mentioned, was never seen. Coincidentally, Davis would outlive Baxter by four years and the series itself by over a year.

As with All About Eve Thelma Ritter as Sadie Dugan the maid steals every scene she was in, it helped she got great lines and knew how to deliver them just right.

Sadie : The cap's out. Makes me look like a lamb chop with pants on.

Mrs. Finney : Of all the times to quit a job, just before Christmas with all the bills due and five months due on the icebox!

Sadie : You got to make up your mind whether you want your kids happy or your icebox paid up.

Sadie : Look, I don't teach you about teachin'. Don't teach me about ducks.

Sadie : You oughtn't to run around like that. You'll get consumption.

Mrs. Finney : Can't we have peace in this house even on New Year's Eve?

Sadie : You got it mixed up with Christmas. New Year's Eve is when people go back to killing each other.

R106 . . .

Delivery boy: Something sure smells good in here.

Sadie: Wish I could say the same for you.

While we’re complaining about a great movie, what about that long, godawful New Haven process shot with the actors clearly on a treadmill. That alone should have given the directing Oscar to Billy Wilder or Carol Reed, while Mankiewicz keeps his screenplay award.

R101 according to Screen Time Central Thelma only had 10 minutes of screen time, just over 7% of the running time! Fellow nominee Celeste had 41 minutes or 30%.

The fact she was so memorable and missed from the movie is a pure testament to her skills. I first remembered her from The Misfits where she was similarly used a lot in the beginning and then disappears from the movie.

Let's not forget that fellow nominee that year Miss Eleanor Parker also played Margo Channing in a road company of Applause.

There is a goof I tried to put on IMDB goofs but I think they rejected it. When Margo goes to the theatre for Miss Caswell's audition. We see a Bette double on location open the street door and enter. Then we see Bette enter the set recreation from the street.

[quote]I always mix Hugh Marlowe up with Richard Carlson and usually have to look at the credits to see which one I'm watching.

Is Mrs. Hugh Marlowe a dog too?

Richard Carlson was cuter but he hit the wall fast. I think he was a drinker. But look how cute he is in Hold That Ghost.

Has anyone else seen "The Model and the Marriage Broker?" A strange little movie that shows up on the Fox Movie channel every so often. Thelma plays the marriage broker. It's one of her earliest films, and it's pretty much a leading role (although Jeanne Crain is top-billed.) Directed by George Cukor.

I recently saw For Love or Money. Thelma plays a rich lady and is dressed by Jean Louis!

[quote]The film opens straightaway with its own theme, without the ubiquitous "Fox Fanfare".”

R21 So do a good many other 20th Century-Fox films from the 40s and 50s, often ones personally produced by Darryl Zanuck, though not exclusively. The Man In The Gray Flannel Suit, for ex.

R114 What's strange about it?

Strange that George Cukor would accept Jeanne Crain.

[quote] While we’re complaining about a great movie, what about that long, godawful New Haven process shot with the actors clearly on a treadmill. That alone should have given the directing Oscar to Billy Wilder or Carol Reed, while Mankiewicz keeps his screenplay award.

That shot doesn't have much to do with Mankiewicz's skills as a director. That would be a studio decision made in pre-production, I think by the production manager though I don't know enough about filmmaking to say. They would have worked out a budget (that in this case didn't include traveling to New Haven to make the shot) and how certain scenes would be accomplished. The production did go on location to San Francisco to film at the Curran Theatre (subbing for a Broadway theatre), and I think that was the only time the cast went on location.

I think they did have a couple of silent shots of Bette Davis going into a theatre and into "21". But mostly Hollywood films were still being made in LA. Wilder had the advantage of having a story set in LA (though he used rear projection, as well).

[quote]R119 The production did go on location to San Francisco to film at the Curran Theatre (subbing for a Broadway theatre), and I think that was the only time the cast went on location.

San Francisco has no Shubert Theater.

What's rear projection?

R122, Presenting hole.

Addison says something like Time has been good to Eve, Life, profiles where she goes and what she does and whom she's with, "and when and where she's going". I don't know how long it's been since she opened in Lloyd's play - when this narration takes place - as Eve gets her Sarah Siddons award. Only a couple of months? Hasn't it been longer? I don't know. Anyway I think it explains why Phoebe would be president of her fan club, and why there would be fan clubs. We forget the influence of Time and Life magazines. They really did familiarize the public with Broadway shows and stars. As well as Look, and Newsweek. Eve also may have appeared on some New York-based TV shows, such as variety shows. New York was more of a center of show business in those days. And didn't Marlon Brando go to Hollywood after starring in only one Broadway play?

R122 Rear projection was the use of process photography behind the actors to give the impression they were in a certain place. Preceding the use of green screen. Film was projected at the rear of the shot on a big screen.

Thanks R125

I believe that Karen says in her initial voice-over that the Sarah Siddons awards are in June and it was in October when she first met Eve. That's a pretty quick progression.

There are also stand ins for Baxter and Sanders exiting a taxi and going into Eve's apartment building.

At one point in the film, Bette enters the Golden Theatre, because the Music Box and the Imperial are directly across the street. Aged In Wood is at the noxious Golden.

[quote]San Francisco has no Shubert Theater.

Neither does LA, anymore.

I know the collector who owns the "Fasten Your Seatbelt" dress. Or at least he did 25 years ago. Heavy mother. And yes, I "pulled an Eve/Phoebe" and held it up in front of a mirror. Chocolate brown, not black as it appears on film.

Dreamgirls didn't open the Shubert, r130.

R127. Thanks. Yes, it is. It was winter when Karen drained the gas tank to keep Margo from getting to her performance.

I mean, I don't know, how long did it take for Julie Andrews to become famous after the opening night of My Fair Lady? Granted, she had some other roles before that, but wasn't yet a well-known star. Or Streisand, she became a big star very quickly. Before she made the movie of Funny Girl she was already famous (though TV helped with that). Gene Kelly went to Hollywood and starred in his first film after his first starring role in a show, Pal Joey. Judy Holliday did the same.

I think Mankiewicz was using some poetic license, I don't think you're supposed to analyze it too much, but it does seem people became stars quickly then. The studios and theatre owners were always looking for new names and faces. Marilyn Monroe went from nobody to a huge star very fast, for ex.

Marilyn became an overnight sensation in just a few short years

r132 Did I say that it did?

Wasn't saying Marilyn was an overnight sensation. Just that she went from an unknown to a big box office star very fast.

Years ago I watched an old afternoon movie called 'The Proud and the Profane' with William Holden and Deborah Kerr. It was pretty awful, but Thelma Ritter was in it and I remember being struck by how much personality she projected in the minor role.

As for Gary Merrill, I always found him annoying. Not that I saw a lot of his work, but when I did run across it, it was always the same: low-effort cynicism.

I also love Thelma Ritter in The Mating Season with Gene Tierney. She is hilarious as the mother of the husband that Gene mistakes for a maid coming to help with a party.....so against her son's wishes she just moves in and plays along with the gag.

Miriam Hopkins is Gene's mother......"Well I said I was happy to see him.....do you want me to lie and get struck by lightning?"

Mitchell Liesen wonderfulness.

R133, Ethel Merman was a sensation the day after Girl Crazy opened on Broadway.

R133, I also presume that Addison DeWitt was mentioning her daily in his column after a certain point, so that would have accelerated her visibility, especially if one assumes that his column was syndicated.

Thank you, R138! I saw that movie years ago and loved it, but forgot was it was called. And it's on YouTube!

[R119] It is not that I think they should have actually gone with the actors to New Haven for one outside shot, however long. But Hollywood films of the period, especially top-of-the-line ones, are filled with process shots that are not so blatantly phony they momentarily take you out of the picture—as this one does. And since there is too much dialogue to think this is second unit, yes, I do think it is up to the director to keep it visually credible—and that does mean Mankiewicz.

I just know that some of you were presidents of your own school's Elaine Stritch Fan Club.

It surprises me more that the Fox art department couldn't have built a reasonable facsimile of New Haven's Shubert Theatre exterior cheaply and with expedience. And the NH Green outside the theatre would have been easy to film on number of LA locations.

I think what it really comes down to is audiences were just simply more forgiving of those kinds of process shots and no one worried too much about it.

[quote]I just know that some of you were presidents of your own school's Elaine Stritch Fan Club.

Several posters have referred to it as a "fan" club, and clearly that's what it is, but Phoebe's actual line is, "You know those Eve Harrington clubs they have at most of the girls' high schools?"

The Eve Harrington clubs were for the kids who were not cool enough to be Mathletes or in the band.

Eve Harrington Clubs = After school scissoring sessions

Eve Harrington Club = Junior Daughters of Bilitis.

[quote]I just know that some of you were presidents of your own school's Elaine Stritch Fan Club.

I was treasurer of our Jane Cowl club.

Lol you guys thinking it was code. Seriously though, isn't a star of a musical much more likely to become an immediate sensation rather than an actress (however great) in a serious play?

Plays were equally important to Broadway in the era in which the movie is set, R150.

I was treasurer of the my high school's Hermione Gingold club.

Marion Lorne VP here!

[quote]I was treasurer of the my high school's Hermione Gingold club.

I recall that you wore a gown of gold.

So it's now WEEKLY threads on All About Eve!

R151 I know they were both important but surely the glitz and glamour of a musical would be more appealing to a bunch of young fans?

There's that word again, I don't even know what it means!

They could have cast Mitzi Gaynor as Phoebe. She had signed with Fox in 1949 and had completed My Blue Heaven before Eve went into production. Maybe they thought it was too small a part. My Blue Heaven actually has a mini-All About Eve plot with Gaynor trying to take over Betty Grable's part and steal her husband Mr. Dan Dailey.

I still think Eve and the girl in the rooming house were lovers.....and when they're all sitting on the stairs, Eve gives Claudia a bit of a come on glance.

[quote]I mean, I don't know, how long did it take for Julie Andrews to become famous after the opening night of My Fair Lady? Granted, she had some other roles before that, but wasn't yet a well-known star. Or Streisand, she became a big star very quickly. Before she made the movie of Funny Girl she was already famous (though TV helped with that). Gene Kelly went to Hollywood and starred in his first film after his first starring role in a show, Pal Joey. Judy Holliday did the same.

I think it could be argued that Lin-Manuel Miranda became a star virtually overnight after “In the Heights” opened Off-Broadway.

R139 Thanks! I was thinking of mentioning her but I wasn't sure about it.

I just read in a new book about the Oscars (Oscar Wars), that Zanuck wasn't wild about Mankiewicz wanting Anne Baxter to play Eve and considered her a "cold potato."

She's grown on me as Eve. I particularly like how she reads the line, "You'd better sit down, you look a little wobbly." Or "a bit wobbly," whatever it is.

I was impressed by Gary Merrill in The Incident (1967). I don't know if any of you have seen this. One of the last b&w features of the 60s. Thelma Ritter was also in it.

The Tony goes to Gwen *and*....

R160 - Lin-Marie a star? Please.

[quote]Ethel Merman was a sensation the day after Girl Crazy opened on Broadway.

Hey, I was in the original cast of "Girl Crazy" too, ya know! And I also played Dolly on Broadway!

"The nationwide cry of theatre owners for new faces and talent takes on infinitely more significance when fresh talent walks away with the year's Oscars. Suffice to say, who knows but what infinite gains could result from a bit of purging of our washed-up and washed-out galaxy of so-called stars." (Allied Theatre Owners of the Gulf States, on Judy Holliday's Best Actress win.)

This is what 32 looked like in 1950, kids.

R167 Oh, geez, my dad was 32 when I was born (in the 50s) and in every picture he looks about 21.

R35, I agree with you.

Actors are never happy. Ever. Ever. Ever.

R167, Gary Merrill looks just fine there to me.

R155 Glad you bumped this thread!

After B. D.'s book was published, Bette and Gary found themselves on the same commercial flight. Though their divorce was bitter and they had not seen each other in years, Gary approached Bette to tell her how sorry he was over what B. D. had written.

[quote] Lol you guys thinking it was code. Seriously though, isn't a star of a musical much more likely to become an immediate sensation rather than an actress (however great) in a serious play?

R150. Well back then there was Julie Harris. There was also Patricia Neal.

[quote] Neal gained her first job in New York as an understudy in the Broadway production of the John Van Druten play The Voice of the Turtle. Next, she appeared in Lillian Hellman's Another Part of the Forest (1946), winning the 1947 Tony Award for Best Featured Actress in a Play, in the first presentation of the Tony awards.

She went to Hollywood a year or two later and signed with Warner Bros., starring in John Loves Mary with Ronald Reagan

[quote]R124 And didn't Marlon Brando go to Hollywood after starring in only one Broadway play?

Brando did several Broadway plays prior to “Streetcar.”

A Flag Is Born (Sep 05, 1946 - Dec 14, 1946)

Candida (Apr 03, 1946 - May 02, 1946)

Truckline Cafe (Feb 27, 1946 - Mar 09, 1946)

Antigone (Feb 18, 1946 - May 04, 1946)

I Remember Mama (Oct 19, 1944 - Jun 29, 1946)

R174 I know Brando was in other plays, but he *starred* in Streetcar, played the lead, and became famous because of it.

June Lockhart, although she'd had roles in films, was a sudden success on Broadway in the early 50s.

[quote]One newspaper article began, "June Lockhart has burst on Broadway with the suddenness of an unpredicted comet."

She won a Tony for "Outstanding Performance By A Newcomer" (no longer a Tony category).

[quote]R175 I know Brando was in other plays, but he *starred* in Streetcar, played the lead, and became famous because of it.

Oh, I’m sorry. I misread your post.

I have one eye on the Anne Frank series on Hulu, “A Small Light.”

Does the Paul Mescal troll wish he was still in high school so he could start a fan club for his crush?

R150 "lol"

R176 No problem. Your post was informative.

[quote]Does the Paul Mescal troll wish he was still in high school so he could start a fan club for his crush?

Wouldn't he have to be a student at one of the girls' high schools? That's where all the Eve Harrington Clubs were, according to Phoebe.

James Dead did some TV and plays but people (with hindsight of course) say he was always destined to be a star

R181 I'd hate to have that last name

Watched it on a Delta flight last night. Subs had "Sampson" as the name, so it looks like they've fixed it somewhere!

[quote]Bette and Gary found themselves on the same commercial flight...Gary approached Bette to tell her how sorry he was over what B. D. had written.

Did they let him up to First Class, or did he yell it to her from behind the little curtain?

B.D. seems like such an awful person. I'm sure Bette could be be an exasperating mother and had many flaws. She drank too much during certain periods, and everyone's attention was always focused on her. But she was always very proud of B.D. and supported her in every way.

B.D. jumped on the "Mommie Dearest" bandwagon to cash in on the Joan/Bette fascination. Joan does seem to have been unstable and probably was abusive. At least Christina waited until Joan was dead to write her book. B.D., the "Christian", put hers out while her mother was deathly ill and struggling. Repulsive.,

B.D. was a writer like she was an actress.......

Bette doesn't seem to have stayed on good terms with any of her three husbands who lived.

Bette was a virgin until age 26, btw.

She claimed she had to marry to have sex but then there were stories of her having affairs with Howard Hughes and William Wyler and Anatole Litvak and Vincent Sherman.

In his memoir, Eddie Fisher wrote of an inebriated Bette Davis hitting on him at a Hollywood party and becoming quite unpleasant when he rejected her advances.

[quote]having affairs with Howard Hughes and William Wyler and Anatole Litvak and Vincent Sherman.

Oral doesn't count as sex in my book.

r189, were all of those affairs of Bette's before she was a virgin?

[quote]R181 I'd hate to have that last name.

Clearly his name is what doomed him to an early death.

[quote]Watched it on a Delta flight last night. Subs had "Sampson" as the name, so it looks like they've fixed it somewhere!

It's "Simpson" only in the end credits, which have nothing to do with subtitles created years later.

R185 apparently Joan was well aware Christina had wrote a salacious tell all about her in the months leading up to her (early) death. It was being shopped around NY. Maybe that's one reason she disinherited her. Can I ask on what grounds a child can contest a will if the parent made it when of sound mind?

Allegedly BD published her first tell all when it looked like Bette was dying and the gravy train was running out. Unlucky for the bitch Bette recovered and wrote her own side of things

I didn't know that about Christina Crawford, R195 -thanks!

I'm with you in being grateful that Bette lasted long enough, probably through sheer will power and strength of character, to state her opinion of B.D.'s venom-for-hire.

Lee Israel (Can You Ever Forgive Me) was almost hired as her co-writer or ghostwriter, in her book she says Bette fired her because "I shouted back!"

BD and her useless husband were lazy grifters who didn't like to work. Bette supported them (at a very comfortable level) for two decades. Bette would've been a wealthy woman if she didn't have to support her entire family and various husbands over the years.

R198, The useless husband died several years ago, as did one of B. D.’s sons.

R190-Like I'd trust anything Eddie Fisher said.

Bette must have been pretty hammered to make at pass at this

*

R201, In his prime, Eddie Fisher was considered a heartthrob.

Bette had probably heard that Eddie had a beer can cock and wanted to see for herself.

[quote]R195 Joan was well aware Christina had wrote a salacious tell all about her in the months leading up to her (early) death. It was being shopped around NY. Maybe that's one reason she disinherited her.

That is a rumor that has surfaced decades after Crawford’s death. There’s no reliable evidence that Christina began working on her book before her mother’s death.

I think most people have accepted that for the most part Crawford was a thoroughgoing cunt to her two eldest children, in life as in death. She didn’t need any inducement.

Joan died in May of 1977.

“Mommie Dearest” was first excerpted in New York Magazine in September of 1978.

Plenty of time for Christina to write it.

[quote]There’s no reliable evidence that Christina began working on her book before her mother’s death.

The last year of Joan's life, Christina would call her up late at night and whisper into the phone "Is this the Cocksucker residence?"

[quote] She claimed she had to marry to have sex but then there were stories of her having affairs with Howard Hughes and William Wyler and Anatole Litvak and Vincent Sherman.

She married her first husband in 1932. She worked with those three directors in the late 30s and early 40s, which is probably when the affairs happened. Her relationship with Hughes was also after 1932.

R199 Did not know that - any links or anything - just curious how you found out that one of BD's sons had died.

Oh goodness, R194, you’re right and I feel so silly for thinking I was onto something! I could’ve sworn that the OP mentioned subtitles as well, but it was just the credits. My mistake!

R208, I’m unable to find it now, but about two years ago, one of her sons posted on social media that his brother had died unexpectedly.

Her husband Jeremy Hyman died in 2017.

R195

Things vary by state but generally across the country last will and testaments can be challenged based upon claims decedent lacked testamentary capacity

In Joan Crawford's case Christina and Christopher challenged their mother's will based upon claims heavy drinking in last years of her life made JC mentally unsound to create said will. They also alleged undue influence from one or more persons caused their mother to make changes in her will.

Words " being of sound mind, willfully and voluntarily .." are not in wills for no reason, but have purpose. If a court decides decedent was not sound of mind and or was coerced/unduly influenced a last will in whole or part can be declared invalid and set aside.

What many who bring such actions fail to understand that funds to defend decedent's wishes come out of the estate. Famous fictional case in a Charles Dickens novel "Jarndyce vs Jarndyce" comes to mind. Disputes over an estate and will went on for so long and costs ran so high entire estate was consumed by costs.

For this reason you often see (as was in case of Joan Crawford's estate) often a settlement is reached. Estate basically agrees to give person or persons challenging a will something in aid of them going away and ceasing all current and future legal action or claims. This brings a certainty to whole matter rather than risking depleting funds from estate in endless legal proceedings.

There was nothing wrong with Joan's will AT ALL.....it accurately reflected her feelings.

Cindy & Cathy were horse faced cunts.

Christina gave her inheritance to her brother, who wasn’t in good shape… and who she felt was ultimately more damaged by their mother.

Crawford left the twins equal financial sums, but only one of them got all of Mommie’s personal effects (which is where the true value of the estate lay.)

Christina thought pitting the twins against each other like that was distasteful, as well.

Because Christina was such a tasteful dame. NOT.

A great interview with Christina Crawford.

Oh shit. Lawyers.

I'm surprised Christina Crawford was ever an actress. She's likeable but doesn't have the personality or charisma (or looks, really).

What kind of accent does she have? Doesn't sound like California.

Good interview but that music playing in the background is annoying.

Wonderful interview with Christina! What an impressive and well-spoken woman. she has moved on so admirably and turned around her childhood misfortune to help so many others. I thought the interviewer asked great questions and her answers were so well-considered and smart.

For me she's worse than BD Hyman still making money off her dead mother. I have more respect for BD who at least has a job of her own.

I want to see what BD's adult children look like now

Comparing how they come across, give me Christina any day vs BD.

[quote] [R73], I also find Karen's line, "I guess I'm what the French call 'de tropp'," and Bill's response, "Just a little around the edges," to be very clunky--[bold]overwritten and unnecessary[/bold].

Which is the essence of de trop.

R222 go fuck yourself!

Christina was and is a self-serving, duplicitous liar who saw her chance to make money off the corpse of her adopted mother.

Joan Crawford had many flaws, but her adopted daughter's renderings have been shot down by numerous people who were not Joan's apologists and don't have an ax to grind.

And playing Sherlock Holmes over credit errors has more to do with OCD than film research.

Gary Merrill and Hugh Marlowe were up and coming actors at Fox, they were both in Twelve O'Clock High (Fox) (Best Picture nominee for 1949), and both were very good in it. Marlowe was in Come To The Stable in 1949 - that got several Academy nominations, and starred Celeste Holm. Zanuck and Mankiewicz no doubt agreed on their being cast. It's kind of like Woody Allen casting the popular new actors of the moment. Merrill and Marlowe were both hot at the moment, especially within the studio.

[quote] And playing Sherlock Holmes over credit errors has more to do with OCD than film research.

Who claimed it was "film research"? This isn't The Margaret Herrick Library website, it's a gossip forum.

Hugh Marlowe was no Hugh Beaumont.

[quote]Hugh Marlowe was no Hugh Beaumont.

He was also no Rina Marlowe.

Hugh Marlowe has an extended shower scene in COME TO THE STABLE and, let me tell you, he was far hotter with his clothes off than on.

Did he make you wet, Loretta?

R233 Did he come...to the stable?

Hugh offscreen with Bette and Gary

I've seen the YouTube documentary before and I always love those bits where they show contemporary clips of the actors giving these ridiculously mannered and obviously scripted interviews. They're just hilarious.

Both Hugh and Gary were very handsome post-WWII type leading men and I've never really understood all the hate for them here on these AAE threads. They both wear their tweeds well and perform their roles perfectly and. more importantly, stay out of the way. William Holden and Robert Mitchum were not needed here.

Be grateful we didn't get David Wayne whose appeal I never understood.

R239, Likewise, Eddie Albert.

Rory Calhoun seemed to be Fox's second string Robert Mitchum around 1950. Could he have played a plausible Bill Sampson? Would the more pronounced age difference between him and Ms Davis have been a good thing?

R241 Rory Calhoun makes Gary Merrill seem like Spencer Tracy in comparison.

Well!

Guy Madison was such a piece of ass.

The line I think is overblown is Bill's about Margo judging Eve by "the barnyard, benzedrine standards of our megalomaniac society". Granted I think Mankiewicz wisely only gives lines like that to Bill, so that we know only Bill talks like that. Likewise, his speech about "theatre."

*It's similar, in a way, to how he writes the part of the schoolteacher played (excellently) by Kirk Douglas in A Letter To Three Wives. George is the "thinker" in the piece and gets all the philosophical, critical lines.

[quote]r237 …I always love those bits where they show contemporary clips of the actors giving these ridiculously mannered and obviously scripted interviews.

Yes. And they all pretend to adore each other and laugh at each other’s jokes… when you know they just finished shitting on their costar’s dressing room floor.

R240 Eddie Albert was a wonderful actor.

R248, It’s nice that you think so, but no.

R248, Robert Wagner has said Eddie was “difficult” when they starred together on “Switch”.

R77, I never smoked and these days I hardly ever drink but will have an occasional drink of wine or champagne.

it really does make a difference.

Eddie Albert was talented, come on.

Eddie probably turned down RJ's pass thus called difficult.

Eddie Albert was an environmental activist who pushed for eliminating DDT. Bedbugs were eradicated with the use of DDT, but thanks to Eddie they came back.

R254, Jack Warner walked in on Eddie Albert fucking his wife Ann.

What exasperated Jack the most was that Eddie kept on fucking her after Jack entered the bedroom and caught them.

Probably not gay, then.

In terms of charisma, charm and personality, even Lisa Douglas had to admit that Arnold Ziffel had Oh-lee-vah beat dead to rights. Maybe it wasn't Eddie Albert's fault; it could have been that he was playing the character perfectly. (He and Arnold should have tried switching roles.)