Barbara Stanwyck is the Greatest American Actress in history.

She couldn't do All About Eve, Humoresque, or Long Day's Journey Into Night.

Nor could she do A Star is Born, A Streetcar Named Desire, The Heiress, or Letter from an Unknown Woman.

Ironically enough her story was the inspiration for A Star is Born.

Could any of those legendary, Hollywood leading ladies delivered any of the performances Divine gave in John Waters’s films?

[R1] I didn't mean to say she could every role, just to say that she had the most range among her peers and yet she's largely forgotten today. Only Judy Garland and (maybe) Irene Dunne have had a similar range.

Why is it necessary to have a best? So silly.

Close, R2. The entire piece is a great read.

[quote]If anything has as long of a shelf life as the story of A Star Is Born, it's the rampant curiosity about who inspired the movie. What Price Hollywood? was believed to borrow from the life of silent film star Colleen Moore, who installed her husband, John McCormick (who long struggled with alcoholism), as her producer to boost her career, and silent film director Tom Forman. Many have also surmised that the 1937 iteration of A Star Is Born drew directly from the life of Barbara Stanwyck, who married vaudeville star Frank Fay in 1928, just as she was emerging from chorus girl work — they moved to Hollywood shortly thereafter, and while her star exploded, Fay sank quietly into alcoholism.

Oh yes, Joan could have done The Lady Eve!

Barbara was by far the most talented of her peers.

Agree that she was on of the greatest, Op. But picking on your examples, Bette Davis could have done Stella Dallas (earlier in her career). Barbara was very hammy in that role herself.

What is the truth about her relationship with Richard Chamberlain on the set of The Thorn Birds? I have read that they got along and I have read they didn't get along at all.

Stanwyck couldn't and wouldn't have done "The Philadelphia Story." She couldn't do historical pieces, swashbucklers or musicals.

"No one knows her today."

Oh?

These fool OP's who use a formula for their threads just show they're a waste of keystrokes.

I love Stanwyck in everything she did, except television shit. She had a smart sense of her range and no one pushed her into unfit roles. Her intense authenticity made a success of almost everything.

OP doesn't add anything to the obvious.

I love her in Baby Face. She is at her most beautiful to me. One of my all time favorite movies.

Here’s one thing that couldn’t be said of too many others:

[quote] Frank Capra said of Stanwyck: "She was destined to be beloved by all directors, actors, crews and extras. In a Hollywood popularity contest, she would win first prize, hands down."

OP Have you read this? 800+ pages and it is merely Volume I. It’s very comprehensive and I’m always amazed by the sheer ambition of people in near-poverty to pull themselves out of it…and into stardom.

I had not realized she and Joan Crawford swam in the same waters in the mid 1920s in the NYC Broadway scene. Lots of sidebars about Joan’s behavior and ambition.

R2 When she was Mrs. Frank Fay? That part of her life?

She also starred in a hit Broadway play called Burlesque in the mid 1920s or so. The first act was similar to A Star is Born, however there was a reconciliation/happy ending.

She played a young widowed mother in a film and I can't remember the name. She was very poor and all alone except for her small son.

[quote]I had not realized she and Joan Crawford swam in the same waters in the mid 1920s in the NYC Broadway scene. Lots of sidebars about Joan’s behavior and ambition.

Gossip columnist Shirley Eder secretly taped Stanwyck regarding Crwford.

[quote]What is the truth about her relationship with Richard Chamberlain on the set of The Thorn Birds?

After Stanwyck thrashed him for coming in late and not knowing his lines, I'd say they didn't get along. (kidding)

Their "special" scene in The Torn Birds made me cringe and wretch.

Irene Dunne is truly forgotten. Someone recently got a publisher to take on an 800 page bio of Stanwyck, so I don't think she's truly forgotten.

Stanwyck did cover a lot of genres, including musicals, noirs and screwball comedy and she always was game for doing something different or for doing a routine programmer. She could dance, she could sing--she was no song bird, but she could do it competently. She could do melodrama, but probably not in the way that Davis or Crawford could. She did Westerns (which she enjoyed) which Crawford or Davis couldn't do---Crawford did an odd Western, "Johnny Guitar" but she wouldn't have been able to do a conventional B-western like "Cattle Queen of Montana". She couldn't have done Tracy/Hepburn films or "Philadelphia Story" but those were written specifically for Hepburn.

Crawford was never good in comedies, really. She was too grimly determined an actress to really excel in that genre as she could never truly relax as an actress. I'm not sure she had much of a sense of humor - certainly not about herself (even Davis and Hepburn had that much, if only occasionally).

I wouldn't call her performance in The Women comedic; she's playing another bitchy mantrap which she did well. But when you see her in films like Susan And God and a few comedies in the 30s, it's obvious that she's not at her best.

I can't imagine her in The Lady Eve or Ball Of Fire.

[quote] Why is it necessary to have a best? So silly.

because people are childish.

Completely agree, r20, Joan Crawford does not belong in any list of greatest actresses. She did well in numberous roles, but she couldn’t do comedy, she couldn’t do much else than that special personna. She doesn’t bear comparison with stanwick , or davis, or Hepburn (only to quote ops names)

R17 Thank you. That was very enlightening. Joan sounds delusional during tea. Barbara sounds completely plausible on the last call with her stories of Joan’s nonsense.

Meanwhile, Shirley Eder…I love how she tells Barbara several times that she just hates when her editors get a word or two wrong, changing the tenor of her column. She’s really getting ahead of the story there, prepping Barbara that it’s not her fault if something in the column is disparaging. Eder also gives Stanwyck several opportunities to state the conversation is “off the record,” but Stanwyck never takes the bait. Eder is great at covering her ass. This reminded me of the amount of work the columnists did then…and the skill they needed to ferret out information and maintain relationships.

Her Brooklyn accent would have made it hard to accept her in most of the roles OP listed.

But she is one of the greats. Not forgotten.

She was a little butch, but she was great lay, and she was always prepared and professional on set.

[quote]She couldn't have done Tracy/Hepburn films

Stanwyck had very good rapport with several of her male co-stars like Henry Fonda, Joel McCrea, Gable (early on) and Robert Ryan among others. If they had scripts written specifically for her and one of them, Stanwyck could have done as well as that fake couple Tracy and Hepburn.

Thanks for the link, R17.

Stanwyck DID do Tracy/Hepburn films, but better and less grating, like Ball of Fire and The Lady Eve. Or even Christmas in Connecticut. I prefer all of Stanywyck’s comedies to Hepburn’s, frankly.

I disagree that she couldn’t have done All About Eve. That role is just so associated with Davis in our eyes. Claudette Colbert could have pulled it off too, it would just be different. She actually could have easily done all the films R1 & R2 mention at points in her career, I don’t know why they picked those. I’d have said something like The Seven Year Itch.

I agree with OP. She was better than Bette and Hepburn. And Joan was never an actress, her Oscar was ironically for a Stanwyck drag performance.

And no, Bette never had the raw vulnerability to pull off something like Stella Dallas. In the end, that scene where Stanwyck cries with tears of happiness and walks on with a smile, that’s something I’d argue nearly none of her peers could have pulled off. Bette in general had a narrow range she was fantastic in, but could not for the life of her do straight comedy, for example.

James Cagney is like the male Stanwyck, his other peers are more “iconic”, I suppose, but he could truly do anything and was remarkably affecting and genuine in all his roles. He was also a poor Irish New York kid who started out as a dancer.

I would've liked to see Crawford or Davis do THE BIG VALLEY!

I can’t see Bette (or any of the others) doing Double Indemnity.

Sorry, but Bette could have definitely done Stella Dallas in 1937, and Stanwyck could have done All About Eve. THey all did have their limitations, though.

[quote] She had a smart sense of range and no one pushed her into unfit roles

R11 - allow me to introduce you to “Escape to Burma” in which she plays a rubber planter who delivers the line “I was born and raised in Burma” as if Burma were a neighborhood next door to Red Hook.

P.S. I absolutely love Stanwyck - she & Colbert are my two favorite actresses

I forgot the link. Sorry.

R34, that artwork doesn't even resemble Barbara in any way. Weird.

Originally, HUMORESQUE was supposed to star Stanwyck with Dane Clark, but their schedules got in the way. I can’t see Barbara killing herself over some younger dick.

The Strange Love of Martha Ivers has a similar kind of tone to Humoresque even if the plots are different.

Joan was never really an actress, a great screen star, but her best performances are when she’s not “trying”, which is almost never. She’s very good in The Women and Baby Jane.

R33. Stanwyck was close to 50 when she did Escape to Burma, and roles were few and far between. This is what she could get at the time, and I’m happy she didn’t do Female on the Beach.

R35, the face is Marilyn Monroe’s.

Stanwyck in Johnny Guitar would have been interesting.

Directors loved working with Stanwyck because they got everything they needed from her on the first take. She was the greatest in my eyes and yes, I would have loved to see her play Vienna in "Johnny Guitar".

Didn’t Crawford want Stanwyck as her co-star in Johnny Guitar? I agree she would have made a better Vienna.

Also, I find it endlessly funny the only two pictures La Crawford had in her apartment were allegedly those of Babs and JFK…

She's wonderful in the two films she did with Douglas Sirk, "All I Desire" and "There's Always Tomorrow". She partnered very well with Fred MacMurray. It's the Capra films in which I love her most.

In "Clash By Night" Stanwyck gives a terrific performance.

[quote] "Colleen Moore"

A fine name for anyone, but not at all for a Hollywood starlet, IMO. It struck me as odd, so I looked her up. The name was in fact changed from her birthname "Kathleen Morrison" (which I prefer), which was common practice in the industry for decades.

"Colleen Moore" is aurally smooth, but it sounds like an overweight office frau, who may possibly be in charge of a smallish typing pool somewhere.

Anyway, apart from having vampire teeth, she was cute! I'll have to check out some of her films, R6. I just can't believe that was the name they chose, when it could've been anything. I'd love to know the details behind that. "Hollywood Names: Before & After" would make a fun thread, I think.

Too bad the greatest American actress destroyed her legacy by taking a throw-away job at the end of her career on 'Dynasty 2'.

Stanwyck and Crawford in “Lizzie Guitar!”

Apparently Crawford wanted Stanwyck for Johnny Guitar, and it was seriously considered. However, the movie's budget wouldn't allow it.

R45, I hope you're trying to be funny.

"She may never have been as good as Davis at her best, but she was never as bad as Davis at her worst. In fact, she never gave a bad performance."

r16 - So Big

r44...

Thanks, R48!

She was very homely, and nothing memorable in the talent section. Nice that she's still remembered and loved

I love Barbara Stanwyck, particularly in 'The Lady Eve' and 'Stella Dallas,' and was impressed when I first learned of her professionalism and respect toward all of her collaborators on her films.

She should have won at least one Oscar, but like all actors, she had her limitations. I saw 'Sorry, Wrong Number' for the first time recently, and it's awfully hard to buy such a formidable screen presence as a defenseless neurotic (or a neurotic of any stripe). I couldn't help but chuckle as she kept barking about being a "helpless invalid;" Missy always struck me as someone who would never go down without a fight.

Shit.

Unfortunately Stella Dallas is a shit film.

I recently watched So Big, directed by massively underrated William Wellman, who also loved Stanwyck, and he hated most actors. It was quite good. Bette has a small role it, from her early Warner’s days.

From her Ziegfeld days...

Stella Dallas is a sudser. "Sorry Wrong Number" is over-wrought and even someone as skilled as Stanwyck could save it.

Who?

Sorry, Wrong Number worked better in it's original (shorter) radio form.

R57 You not knowing who she is says more about you than her.

I love Stanwyck in everything she did, including television.

Strangely, I like her most in this otherwise middling picture--

^Oops, here's the link--

Fabulous voice.

She did a heck of a coffee grinder...

R63 Another Wellman! They must have really liked each other. I’m a fan of this one even though it’s a shallow film, I guess. Missy had moves!

[quote] Katherine

How fucking hard is it to correctly spell Hepburn's first name, OP? Apparently too hard for you.

[quote]"Sorry Wrong Number" is over-wrought

That's one reason I love it.

R50, take a pill.

[QUOTE]James Cagney is like the male Stanwyck, his other peers are more “iconic”, I suppose, but he could truly do anything and was remarkably affecting and genuine in all his roles. He was also a poor Irish New York kid who started out as a dancer.

One Stanwyck film I haven’t seen mentioned here is the one she made with Cagney in 1956, These Wilder Years. He plays a man trying to find the son he’d abandoned and she plays a woman who runs a home for unwed mothers.

Very touching movie. I watch it every time it’s on TCM.

I LOVE MY REPUTATION. It’s a very underrated film. Barbara is cast against type, but she’s still quite good in it. Wellman also directed her in THE GREAT MAN’S LADY. It’s not a perfect film, but another case of Barbara being better than the film. And he helmed LADY OF BURLESQUE.

[quote]"Sorry Wrong Number" is over-wrought

Agnes Moorehead did the original radio version and probably would have been better than Stanwyck in the movie.

I love Moorhead but she’s not the type you call when you want something to be less overwrought.

Burt Lancaster was HOT.

R67. These Wilder Years is one of my favorite movies. It has modest aspirations, but it’s touching and Stanwyck and Cagney are naturalistic and well-matched. I DVRd it from TCM and watch when I need a quiet, but wistful story.

R50, please provide support for your casual dismissal of Stanwyck's looks. What about her features fails to qualify as pretty? Because I look at her and see a face that is lovely by any objective standard. She also had a fabulous figure--slim and toned until her dotage. Although her looks were not her trademark the way Crawford's or Garbo's were, she was far from homely.

Stanwyck wasn’t homely at all. Comparatively plain to the glamour girls, yes, but she aged the best out of all her contemporaries, great beauties or not great beauties.

Capra said she had a "stern beauty".

Yes--she was striking until the end of her life. She always kept herself very trim, which helped. The only star of that era who aged as well is Ann Blyth.

[quote]She always kept herself very trim,

She smoked.

From r55 to r52

Those two photos are bookends to her career.

She was a Phyllis

I agree about her great voice: wonderful instrument for a skilled actress.

Impressive scene from "The Miracle Woman," when she was in her early 20s.

I never could stand Douglas Sirk films (not a fan of cheesy melodrama) but I do love All I Desire, and Stanwyck is wonderful in it.

Remember the Night is a good one...

R76, you're right about the smoking. I confess I strategically omitted that detail. It probably did help her stay thin. Nevertheless, she was known for her self-discipline.

I love Stanwyck, but there's not a chance that she'd have made a convincing Regina Giddens. The only period pieces she did well were Westerns.

R79, Douglas Sirk was a genius. His films are the art of supreme irony.

OP, I suspect you've done this same thread topic many times.

[quote] Yes--she was striking until the end of her life

She was. She was also very well liked, so she got the face she deserved, just as some of her peers perhaps got the faces they deserved.

Banjo On My Knee is on Youtube...

I also like The Two Mrs. Carrolls with Stanwyck and Humphrey Bogart. She also made a movie with Errol Flynn, Cry Wolf. She has chemistry with everybody.

I saw her in person at her AFI Life Achievement Award. I'll never forget it. Every living star in the Hollywood firmament and Catherine Deneuve were there that night.

This tribute to her from when she was given an honorary Oscar is so beautifully edited. It’s really something.

BARBARA STANWYCK as JO

Jesus, if only she’d gotten “On Golden Pond”! She would’ve reunited with former co-star Fonda AND won her competitive Oscar.And she would have saved us Kate's uneven and dreadful performance.

And god knows, r91, I would have gotten along a lot better with Missy!

Jane loved Missy.

Watching her in Walk on the Wild Side is a scream because she’s by far the only competent performer. She’s playing this tawdry trash for all it’s worth.

R91 Why did they pick Hepburn over Stanwyck? Besides Hepburn having more awards, both women were in the same point of their careers by then (mostly TV spots, though Kate never did the soaps) and Stanwyck had some iconic films with Henry Fonda - he was crazy about her, and proclaimed he’d have left any of his wives for her. Or was Hepburn the one who got it optioned and picked Fonda as her leading man?

R80 I always wondered why the hell Billy Wilder and Preston Sturges (both of whom I love) trashed Mitchell Leisen for making enjoyable films of their screenplays? They would both talk endlessly about how he ruined them and made them schmaltzy and shallow.

Interestingly Stanwyck favorite Leisen, like the previously mentioned William Wellman, is a sadly forgotten director compared to his contemporaries. I’d argue Leisen deserves the same status as George Cukor has, while Wellman, if not technically as skilled as Howard Hawks, had just as much range and made many great films.

R95 No, it was Jane's project and production. My hunch is that Stanwyck had been in The Big Valley for years and in those days they tended to think of that as theatrically undesirable, whereas Hepburn kept her TV work to a minimum and therefore had more box office clout.

[quote] She had an unmatched range, yet no one knows her today.

OP, why would you say "no one knows her" when apparently you do?

The fact that she was able to singlehandedly save Stella Dallas is a testament to her ability as an actress. That film has horrible pacing, major plot holes, absurd character development and unlikeable characters. Her performance and the final scene are the only reasons why the film is well remembered.

She's no Andrea Riseborough.

R95 Henry Fonda wanted Stanwyck but Hepburn was a bigger box office name and draw at that point. She was still remembered whereas Stanwyck was forgotten.

Barbara was an ultra conservative Republican. Her "acting" shined when she pretended to care about others.

R91, I agree.

Her name was Ruby Stevens, but her acting was so great, everyone believed she was Barbara Stanwyck. Amazing.

Stanwyck remained thin throughout her life because she preferred a Keto-like diet. She was known to eat steak - especially steak tartare - for all three meals.

Stanwyck also liked sports. besides horses, she was a tennis enthusiast. While the other stars hobnobbed with pros like Bill Tilden in the 1930s, Barbara HIRED pro turned coach Eleanor Tennent (who later coached Maureen Connolly to numerous victories in the 1950s), to sharpen her tennis skills. Stanwyck took everything very seriously.

(Of course there were no "pros" in tennis as we know them today because it was an amateur sport, but you know what I mean)

R5 It is silly to start topics the way OP does.

Provocative trolling statement blah blah blah.

That's from the Sheboygan Conservatory of Trolling Handbook, for getting clicks and responses.

Sad thing is, it works.

R102, you're thinking of today's Republican party, or even the Republican party of the past 25 years. Barbara Stanwyck was not a religion in your face or a pro-lifer.

From another thread:

She didn’t join John Wayne and publicly support the Vietnam war or Nixon. She didn’t condemn radicals, she didn’t complain about the new “dirty” movies like Ann Miller did. Stanwyck appeared on the dais for the Urban League in 1960, she didn’t blame blacks for their fate like John Wayne. She was an endless supporter of Native American rights."

My favorite Barbara Stanwyck movie:

"Barbara was an ultra conservative Republican. Her "acting" shined when she pretended to care about others."

R102 - You do NOT know what you are posting about. Stanwyck was a 'Main Street" Republican like Gerald Ford, Bob Dole and Jack Kemp.

Make that Thomas E Dewey, Dwight Eisenhower and Nelson Rockefeller, R109. Most of these Repubs would be considered liberals today.

R110 - Thanks for helping me make my point.

Stanwyck got her honorary Oscar around the time that "On Golden Pond" was made and just before she did "THorn Birds", she was not forgotten, but by that point, she seemed a bit mannered and I'll bet they'd have to bill her as "Miss Barbara Stanwyck" like they did on "The Big Valley".

R79- Not even the GAY favorite-

Imitation Of Life (1959)

She was a Ziegfeld girl and he didn’t hire ugly women.

Stanwyck, like all movie stars, photographed well.

In several of her forties films she is downright beautiful. But she wasn’t comfortable with the glamour aspect of Hollywood and had to be dragged kicking and screaming to photo shoots and costume fittings.

No, r113, especially that, though I love the original! Aunt Delilah! Peola!

She didn't like the glamor shit, and kept her hair grey, but I see she had her face lifted.

R118 How do you plastic surgery obsessives know? I don’t totally doubt she got face work, but when people say she (or anyone else without obvious tells) *certainly* had something done, I roll my eyes. You have her medical records? Aging well relies almost totally on genetics (despite what the SUNSCREEN! NO PARTYING! queens say) and celebrities have always access to way more things to keep them looking good than immediately resorting to facelifts, which were in a primitive state back then. Stanwyck smoked and drank but it wasn’t at the level of many of her peers, and she kept very physically active.

And yes, she was a republican (like about 75% of golden age stars were) but she wasn’t a bigot, especially where race was concerned. Similarly to Clark Gable (who most people found practically apolitical) and Gary Cooper.

R119 = youngster who doesn't know what plastic surgery looks like

It isn't a crime, R119. Female stars of her age had to get plastic surgery to keep working, and it shows. You'll understand when you're 50.

Hey, I didn't get any plastic surgery! And neither did my friend Lucy!

Barbara used surgical tape to pull her skin back on her face, something that she learned from her friend Marlene Dietrich.

YES, R122. She would never go ahead with the dastardly deed of going under the knife. That would ne very shallow and narcissistic.

R120 Smell you gramps. I’m not TOO far from 50 and I’m well aware what surgery looks like. I don’t automatically assume anyone who looks good had surgery. And yes, surgical tape and the “Croydon facelift” (allegedly invented by Dietrich during the filming of Witness for the Prosecution) was as common among aging movie stars as there were skin deep facelifts. Marlene specifically knew that invasive work would fuck up her face more than simply “maintains the illusion” with wigs, tape, even pins.

“Maintaining the illusion” I meant.

She was part of the "Ziegfeld Shadowgraph" number which she described to Hedda Hopper in 1953:

[quote]We had a three dimension stunt when I was a chorus girl with Ziegfeld Follies. I did a strip tease behind a white screen and tossed my clothes out into the audience. They were given polaroid glasses and saw me in third dimension.

When asked what happened if they didn't use the glasses, she replied: "Then they didn't see anything."

[quote] I would've liked to see Crawford or Davis do THE BIG VALLEY!

Did you miss my episodes of The Secret Storm?

Barbara was a whore. She had an abortion at 12 and hated that FDR wanted to help those in need.

She was raped by her BIL.

I loved Barbara in The Big Valley (1965-1969). I watched reruns with grandparents as a little girl.

Stanwyck wasn't exactly a mild "main stream" Republican. She was pretty hard-right from the 1930s - 50s and with husband Robert Taylor was a big supporter of Joe McCarthy . Though to her credit, she didn't name names.

And like r128 notes, she hated FDR and the New Deal.

[quote] Could any of those legendary, Hollywood leading ladies delivered any of the performances Divine gave in John Waters’s films?

Or indeed Nancy Stoll (Mink Stole) in Desperate Living? I think not.

I can't find the YouTube clip of color candid footage of Stanwyck & Fred MacMurray relaxing during takes of "There's Always Tomorrow". Stanwyck looks sensational with her silver hair.

Also on in the clip is candid color footage of Ann Blyth's wedding and reception with Piper Laurie, Danny Thomas, Jeanne Crain and Irene Dunne. Crain and Dunne look fabulous!

She had such a difficult childhood and made her mark in Hollywood with no help from anyone. Self sufficient people like her had little patience for certain things. And she was not a narrow minded Republican…she leaned toward libertarianism. She seemed like she was cold and aloof but given her traumatic experiences I understand.

One thing I will say though, is that she never should have adopted her sun. She wasn’t a good mother.

Yes, R122 and R124, there is a Santa Claus!

[quote]made her mark in Hollywood with no help from anyone

Her first husband, comedian Frank Fay, brought her to Hollywood. If it wasn't for him, she'd have stayed in New York.

[quote]husband Robert Taylor was a big supporter of Joe McCarthy

And they were divorced at the time. Or is she responsible for her dumb ex?

Fay was on the decline when they got to Hollywood, the most he did was call Frank Capra to screen test her again for Ladies of Leisure, which made her a pretty immediate name.

R131 She didn’t name names, unlike Robert Taylor, John Wayne or Ginger Rogers (a number of so called “left” wingers!), so no, she wasn’t a hard right Republican. And her dislike of FDR was, as has been stated, tied to her very difficult childhood and her belief that if she was able to make it, so could anyone else. A lot of the Hollywood Republicans (like Gable) came from abject poverty and wanted to hold on to as much money as possible. She wasn’t going around proclaiming herself a white supremacist or a war hawk.

Also, stop linking You Must Remember This as any sort of reliable source. It’s been discussed on DL how the host frequently messes up obvious dates and facts, so it’s clearly simple entertainment that’s less sleazy and more PC than something like Hollywood Babylon.

Also I don’t genuinely care about people’s politics, especially those who were born around the turn of century, for fuck’s sake. Double especially if they’re ENTERTAINERS. Some of the worst people in the world agree with my (left wing) political views, it’s not a measure of personality unless you’re hardcore on either side, which the internet and various trolls has followed everyone into believing that most people are.

“Home is where you come when you run out of places.”

I love her for the fact that she made June Allyson cry on the set of EXECUTIVE SUITE when she showed up on set unprepared.

Good...

As far as acting went, June never was able to prepare.

[quote]OP: ....in history

As opposed to your fantasy?

Oh, dear. And so late for it.

Missy should have been yelling at June Allyson about that horrific hairstyle, good lord.

What did Dick Powell see in June, enough to leave fabulous Joan Blondell for? Were her cocksucking skills second to only Nancy Davis? He shoved her into a couple of roles during his noir period that she was terrible in, like Right Cross. And her wiki says she cheated on him with Alan Ladd (!)

[quote]What did Dick Powell see in June?

SUBSERVIENCE

Charles Pierce ripped her to shreds because of how awful she was.

Who r148? June or Barbara?

R148 = making up tales

Barbara Stanwyck was robbed! She should have won an Oscar for Stella Dallas!

She's certainly great, but there are others just as great. And don't forget, plenty of actors really shine in the theater more than on film.

"Barbara Stanwyck was robbed! She should have won an Oscar for Stella Dallas!"

R151 - Totally agree. Stella Dallas and The Strange Love of Martha Ivers are two favorite Barbara Stanwyck films.

[quote]And don't forget, plenty of actors really shine in the theater more than on film.

And don't forget, plenty of actors really shine on FILM than in theater. Many great stage actors suck in movies.

Mary Martin and Ethel Merman are first class examples of this. Neither woman was photogenic for films.

Martin had a most unfortunate jawline. Merman was just fug. Great for the stage but not for film closeups.

R130 Do you know how she lost the ranch on The Big Valley?

She couldn't keep her calves together.

When I watch a Stanwyck movie I'm always aware I'm watching Stanwyck. When I watch a Bette Davis movie, I get lost in the character.

^ Helen Keller

Bette could sometimes rely too heavily on her mannerisms. Not Barbara. She was not so good in the early days of her career, but by the mid thirties she had come into her own. One big reason was that she rehearsed not only her dialogue but also the dialogue of the other characters in the film. She was reclusive and introverted offscreen. But something about her lit up in front of the camera.

I’m always aware of Kate Hepburn when she comes onscreen.

Stanwyck as Elizabeth I? Hardly.

My late father once told me when Barbara was young "She was a babe".

In several of her films, did a voiceover at the beginning. This is one and it's very good - for East Side West Side (1949).

Barbara Stanwyck wasn't the worst thing to look at, but she also wasn't Jean Harlow either. It is to the lady's credit she learned how to work with what she had and make men desire her in all sorts of ways.

Some guys just love *broads* in all forms.

R158, that's an interesting comment -- for me it's exactly the opposite. Davis is always Davis, but Stanwyck is always the character. Weird how differently people react to different performers. I don't dislike BD at all, but she always feels to me like a brand. A good brand, but a brand.

I'm not an actor, though, so my opinion is strictly from the peanut gallery.

Davis and Hepburn are highly mannered, Stanwyck isn't.

As a freelancer, Stanwyck never had a studio organizing behind her for a traditional Oscar, but she probably escaped being in as many B pictures as Davis or Crawford, who were contract players. She didn't make a string of campy, at-best melodramas like Crawford did in the 50s---I wonder if Ross Hunter would have given her more success in those days, as he knew how to package melodrama to showcase aging actresses often with younger leading men---"Female On the Beach" seems like knock-off Ross Hunter with a bit more sleaze than he usually delivered.

Stanwyck worked in just about all genres, but wasn't necessarily great in all of them---she could do comedy and sing a little but those were not her strengths. To work on short contracts, she needed to get along with studio upper management, something Davis never did. Hepburn was willing to have an affair with the craziest of them (Howard Huges) and Crawford did that with the head of production for teh most rickety of studios, Universal, in the 50s.

R167

[quote] she could do comedy… but not her strength

“Lady Eve”

“Christmas in Connecticut”

“Ball of Fire”

Making some successful comedies didn't make her a great comic actor. She relied on a certain natural skill, but she didn't have the opportunities to develop it further in the manner of contract players (who often had coaches and worked with many of the same people over and over again) or with the kind of formal training that became common later in the Golden Age and after. Cary Grant was another star who freelanced, but he basically figured out how to different shadings of his Cary Grant persona for comedy and drama.

SUBSERVIENCE

She wasn't that subservient to "Richard" when she was riding Alan.

Not necessarily "mannered" in the Hepburn sense, but pretty stuck in a narrow groove by the end of her career. And that billing as "Miss Barbara Stanwyck" On "The Big Valley" was a bit much. No one was using "Miss" at her age by then.

^ says someone born in 1998

I will always love Barbara…she had this underdog quality about her that was endearing to me.