Vegetarians aren't as sickly and frail as people make them out to be

Wow, and so your proof is: your opinion of your own beauty, and your opinion of other people's bad appearance.

Hearing that from you is all the proof any of us needs!

That's nice. I myself could never be vegan. Moderation is everything.

My nephew is a vegan, no meat or even fish.

He ran a half-marathon a few weeks ago. He’s run marathons before, too.

Every vegetarian and vegan I've known has been fat.

Like the OP.

I'm not an herbivore or an omnivore, just a plain ol' whore

I don't want to be fully vegan, but I DO enjoy preparing those dishes. I work them into my diet whenever possible. I COULD rock vegetarianism pretty well, however (although I DO crave bloody beef, barely cooked and practically raw, every once in a while).

That said, below I've linked a vegetarian cookbook I found in a thrift store years ago. A lot of vegetarian cuisine IS common sensical of course, but this book is nice to have on hand if I need ideas/want to explore/use a new ingredient.

Another book I recommend to everyone: "Clean Food", by Terry Walters. I'll let you look that one up on your own.

Am sure your nephew is healthy and strong and fine, but y'know marathons and long-distance running is also really poor for the body in the long run...too much stress and exertion on the joints and connective tissue.

Every runner I know over the age of 40 has rapidly deteriorating mobility and is in chronic pain, even worse than the sedentary folk who don't exercise and work desk jobs.

And I bet that strawman tastes mighty good, OP.

Every vegetarian I know is actually quite thin.

They're also regular marathon runners. A handful of them are over 40, and in fantastic health (one of them has had three babies), so I don't know if R7's observation is true for every case.

You tried, OP. “…the ones i know look greasy and fat.”.

Glad you don’t want people to stereotype those vegans - only the meat eaters.

Interesting because serious runners usually look scrawny and unhealthy to me. It's also hell on your joints in the long run.

Stay pressed meat, OP

Vegan bodybuilder

I don’t find long distance runners aesthetically attractive. Sprinters are hot though

Why does some vegan come here every few months and start one of these? You're not converting or convincing anyone, sweetie.

They are as bad as born again xtians.

Veganism is the future, because greed and gross negligence will make meat and dairy products too toxic for human consumption.

I predict not some pandemic or natural disaster will wipe most of the humanity off the planet, it's going to be toxic, mass-produced meat and people being too addicted to meat that they can't stop eating meat products and get deadly ill in the process. It will be like with COVID-19, where people rather scream hoax and Fake News than to go vegan. For a while, the pharma industry will do its best to sell meds that deal with the symptoms, but not with the actual illness spreading in our bodies (out of greed?), but in the end it will kill us. Some kind of cancer, maybe.

But the teeth problems with vegans. Not good.

"It will be like with COVID-19, where people rather scream hoax and Fake News than to go vegan."

what?

[quote] Some kind of cancer, maybe.

Sounds very scientific, R16

Are you calling MY MOM greasy and fat, you vegetarian bastard?

It's not that you CANNOT get all the nutrition you need while being a vegan.

It's that it takes a lot of effort and careful planning that is way too much bother and effort.

The problem with vegan food is that it tastes like shit and a lot of it is chock full of chemicals.

Let me add again. It tastes like shit.

OP grilling some endamame for the gang.

R2 I hate when people say stupid shit like this. I could never be... Yes you fucking could, if you wanted to. What you are saying is I don't want to be a vegan. Completely different thing.

How I wish we were skinny 😔

Veganism is not a diet humans were meant to keep. It can be done, but you have to be very careful. Many vegans when tested are in. B12 deficiency.

A close friend is vegan - pretty chubby - I'm guessing because he eats tons of sweets? I've tried about 20 vegan cookies and never found one that tastes good. I don't necessarily like meat that much, but I eat tons of stuff with dairy, unfortunately.

R25. No I couldn't be. The food tastes like shit.

R24, funny you posted that. I was dreaming of ribeyes last night.

i am a vegan, at 23 started going to gym hard from day one after sitting on my ass fr 23 years, did not hv any muscle pain the next day, but check if ur vegan diet is meeting ur daily nutrient requirements

R22 vegan food also calls for so much more water, energy, pesticide/herbicide and manufacturing than meat or dairy. It's not yet efficient let alone carbon neutral. Then there's the environmentally- taxing effect of harvesting certain plants & legumes for dairy or fat replacements--soy, almond, avocado. Their negative impact on soil & water far exceeds that of animals.

If you think about it, domesticated farmed animals when bred and fed in sustainable and organic ways are sustainable, good for planet. They way they eat and excrete helps the soil, and it's an effective low-impact method that's been perfect over years of careful husbandry & management.

Just admit you hate and look down upon rural people and farming, that's what you people secretly mean.

ur typng is wrd r31 y?

R29 You really don't know the meaning of the word couldn't. All that meat turned you into a meathead.

R25 It's the same thing. Saying "I could never be a lawyer" is just another way of saying "I don't want to be a lawyer." Saying you could never do something is just another way of saying you don't want to do it.

R27 Well, originally humans were vegans. Like all the other big apes are. We don't have sharp teeth nor claws to rip the flesh

I have yet to meet a skinny vegan or a skinny vegetarian.

[quote]Let me add again. It tastes like shit.

That's just your mouth you're tasting, r22.

Maybe try a breath mint?

R35 Yes, we get it

[quote] Many vegans when tested are in B12 deficiency.

Cobalamin deficiency is no fucking joke. I found out a few years ago that I'd had it perniciously for half my life without knowing (for reasons as yet unknown, I'm following it up), and that it was partially responsible for the fact that I as a young person have had chronic depression, failing memory and sight, 'asthma' (actually just the nerves in my lungs and chest weakening) and neuropathy among other things since puberty.

Scarier still, my GP said that if I'd left it unchecked another couple of years, the consequences could have been irreparable and unimaginably worse. Going without B12 will actually kill you slowly over a period of a few decades.

All great ape species eat insects r36.

R40 It has impacted your writing skills.

R34/35 did you wake up on the wrong side of the bed? Someone piss in your Wheaties? Why so triggered about me not being, wanting to be or unable to be vegan?

You are taking this conversation way too seriously. Like I said, as bad as fundies and religion.

R41 I read that as grape ape.

It’s all carbs R37.

R42 has a bee in her bonnet today! Hopefully it's an organic free range sustainably-raised bee!

R36 and horses are omnivorous--they've been known to eat other horses or human flesh in a pinch. What's your point?

Lord, we have attracted an overly zealous, crusading humorless vegan.

They will also eat meat if opportunity presents R41.

Humans are omnivores. A bit of everything is best.

R41 No, they don't. Also, they would survive without eating the insects. It's not a crucial part of their diet.

R49 Some people will eat shit if opportunity presents. That doesn't mean that humans are meant to eat shit.

R52 quit getting so triggered. Humans are omnivores. Why does that upset you? Are you able to go to dinner with non-vegans?

[quote]That's nice. I myself could never be vegan. Moderation is everything.

[quote][R2] I hate when people say stupid shit like this. I could never be... Yes you fucking could, if you wanted to. What you are saying is I don't want to be a vegan. Completely different thing.

Obligatory not r2.

I hate when people say stupid shit like THIS. What do you suppose the phrase: "I could never be vegan" means, you militant vegan moron.

I don't get why vegans can't seem to grasp that their militant, holier than thou, morally superior attitude is why people hate them.

R54 this one is off the wall nuts too.

[quote]Are you able to go to dinner with non-vegans?

Well, are you going to answer?

the time is ripe for some Terrorposting methinks

A lot of food vegetarians and vegans rely on to make up calories, like meat substitutes, is so over processed and full of chemicals, additives. Soy is a bigger crop and more processed and GMOed than corn in the United States. And Humans shouldn't eat soy beans and tofu, soy should be fermented to be healthy, digestible. So not only are vegans and vegetarians relying more on soy, it's full of pesticides and genetically modified AND they are eating it in its worst form, consuming it directly in large quantities. I would imagine for the community, they ultimately have a large occurrence of cancers later in life - like Linda McCartney.

Our morally superior vegan shows up and starts flinging insults over an innocuous statement. Unhinged. Maybe all the chemicals are affecting her brain.

R33- i hv severe ADHD n ocd, can't type certain words, constantly changing minds, love animals, saw animals eating eachother, did not understand y, parents did not feed me properly or any fruits bcoz they hate me bcoz i am ugly, highly malnourished, parents keeps me locked up in the house except for the school time, telling me everyone is out to kill n eat me, i hv a fucked up life, fuck I can't wait to die

I had black bean burgers last week and I deep farted for two days straight

Let's show solidarity with posho and all start using bcoz.

OMG, thank you for that R61. The term "deep farted" is going into permanent rotation in my household.

Who makes them out to be sickly and frail OP? No one I know and no professional literature.

And who hates vegans? Why?

Lots of silly trolls on this thread starting with the OP. Stirring the S…t.

Can vegetarians like OP eat shit, I mean shit coming out of omnivores?

R66- there r literally thousands of videos on the internet fr free. Go watch them

I'll never get vegetarians and vegans with their meat substitutes. They remind me of people on Weight Watchers with their sugar-free low calorie New York Cheesecake or lesbians with their dick shaped dildos. If you banned meat, desserts and dick from your life, why maintain a taste for them?

Eating meat isn't bad. It just shouldn't be eaten everyday. The problem is we consume meat in such daily quantities that an animal becomes a product and not a living thing. There is no respect for the fact that something has given its life to nourish us. We are completely divorced from this fact with the way meat is packaged. And you can taste the terror in the processing - the taste is off. Trust me if communities had to kill and process all of their own meat, there would be no 40-piece chicken McNuggets.

Vegans are insufferable. I knew two. One wouldn't shut up about it. He was bald. The other when we went out to turned pale because I bought a cookie. He stared at me and said, "you're not going to eat that, are you"? He was extremely thin and looked horrible. The other one looked healthier. I asked him once what he ate and he said avocadoes , oatmeal, bananas, and some kind of corn chips.

R64 I will say that many vegans look pale and frail to me. Not all but many. There's one young couple at our local farmers market that concerns me especially their baby. They are hippie types and both look wan and have purplish rings around their eyes. Same with the baby who just has a "failure to thrive" look. I mind my own business but that baby worries me.

R68 people would be better off killing and slaughtering their own meat and I don't think mcnuggets are are actually chicken but I could be wrong.

R69 what was so horrible about a cookie? It's not meat.

I was a vegan for 5 years. My body weight and medical labs were exactly where they should be--I didn't become sickly thin.

Then I met my partner, who is not a vegan. I drifted somewhat, still staying a vegetarian but eating desserts and cheese, and my weight has started to go up as has my cholesterol. I have to get back to being a vegan.

When I was in college there was a vegetarian restaurant in my neighborhood. It was excellent! But the vegetarian chef-owner (woman) was fat.

I believe in quality of life and I just don't think I could be satisfied living a life of no dairy or meat forever. I love to cook and I'm good at it so naturally I enjoy eating. Some nights I eat a salad. Some nights a steak and others I may have a sandwich. My favorite dinner is a ribeye, med rare, alongside a simple green salad with vinaigrette and some crusty bread with a good red wine.

I have actually gone long periods without meat but have had eggs, sometimes fish, and cheese, yogurt, diary. I think that meat (not necessarily red) does help maintain testosterone levels, though. Usually after a long period of not eating meat, I begin to crave it, and do feel sort of revived after having it.

^Whenever I get my period I literally crave flesh & blood in my mouth & belly. Even iron supplements don't scratch the itch.

Your diet did fuck all for your personality, OP.

I was a vegetarian for 15 years. It was never for health or ethical reasons, I just don't love meat that much. I'm still about 75% vegetarian. The only reason I quit being a vegetarian was because at the time, most of the vegetarian options at restaurants sucked ("oh, you have pasta primavera on your menu. I guess I'll just have that for the FIFTEENTH time this week". 😕). That and hating going over to a friend's for dinner and them feeling obligated to make sure there was a veggie option for me or making a fuss, or even having people ask me about it like it's some exotic and rare ritual I chose to partake in.

Vegetarian options have exploded with the introduction of meat alternatives, but as someone who doesn't really like meat, none of them really appeal to me.

But, even as a vegetarian, with an extremely healthy and balanced diet, I still had high cholesterol!! It's genetics. A doctor once called to give me my test results and she said "your cholesterol is a bit high so don't eat any bacon cheeseburgers or anything, BYE!" and she hung up! I was holding the phone and felt like "but, wait, I'm a...Aw fuck it".

Genetics is a big part of it R79. Don't fret. Opinions on cholesterol differ and high readings aren't necessarily bad.

I'd become a vegetarian before I'd eat those meat substitutes. They are so gross and full of chemicals.

R37 ur nephew sounds hot, pix pls

Oops r82 is meant 4 r3

Yeah. R80. In my case it was probably completely genetics. My father had high cholesterol and his was WAY higher than mine (probably because of diet).

Funny, even though I only considered myself a vegetarian, I've always been lactose intolerant and never liked cheese, so I was more borderline vegan than vegetarian.

But bacon was my gateway drug back into meat eating. And my friends used to joke, because I was very dairy avoidant, that I couldn't eat things that had cream or cheese because I was a vegan. As I sat scarfing down strips of bacon.

I once stayed with a friend and his vegetarian family for a long weekend. I never felt so good in all my life. I liked it so much but I could see it was so hard to stick to that I ate a roast chicken that evening I got back to get back to reality.

I follow someone on You Tube who crowed a while ago "I'm vegan and NEVER sick!" Recently, she had to bail on videos for a while as she was too ill to make any.

My sil is one of those vegetarians who lapses at holidays. She can't resist sneaking a few bites of turkey at Thanksgiving. My brother still eats meat but obviously scaled back for her but they both tried vegan at one point and said it was horrible.

Well, the nephew is not sickly-looking and he has a full head of curly locks.

He does eat dairy. Cheese, eggs and all that.

I think he drinks almond milk, though.

R87 lol your SIL sounds like my Egyptian BIL who says he eats halal but then comes to our place to Xmas and eats more turkey & sausage & bacon than I've ever seen another man consume in my damn life. He also goes on bodybuilding jags (former fat kid dysmorphia, don't ask) and gets through probably enough chickens in a few months to make an entire industrial farm.

We joke that he's the worst mooselamb on the planet, for this and many other reasons.

R85 Really? One weekend of not eating meat made you feel better than you had in your whole life?

Show cock or get out.

Anyhow, the first vegans with whom I was acquainted were all fat, pale, and had neon hair back when that wasn't really a thing.

First impressions...

Real vegans rarly rely on those meat substitutes, I think they don't eat those fake meats. Of course no one likes Indian food, but Indian vegetarian food is not bland and there's a variety, why does vegan equate with fake meat?

Apes don't eat much meat, almost never, you people are stupid.

No one said they ate a lot of meat, stupid R92. They will eat it though.

As usual, insults from militant vegans.

R77 "I literally"

Idiot

[quote] Of course no one likes Indian food

R92 What??

Most Indians love Indian food.

I love Indian food but I usually go for chicken dishes as well as veggie ones. I just had Indian 2 nights ago.

R72 Vegans don't eat anything with animal bi-products in them like butter as well. No dairy, no cheese.

r92 there are 1.4 Billion Indians living in India. Someone likes Indian Food. I don't live in India and I love Indian food.

R88 then your nephew isn't Vegan, at most, Vegetarian.

[quote]^Whenever I get my period I literally crave flesh & blood in my mouth & belly. Even iron supplements don't scratch the itch.

R77 Herbivores like horses and cows have been known to eat small animals when pregnant to get the much needed nutrients meat provides. I saw this video of a horse chomping on a rabbit, and it was so insane to think of those big flat teeth trying to turn that meat into a meal.

[quote]like butter as well. No dairy, no cheese.

That explains the pissy attitude.

"I myself"

Oh, dear!

R53 Who's triggered? I was just replying to your idiotic post.

R54 You are too stupid to insult. I'm not even a vegan

More insults and childish ones. "Neener, neener".

You are def triggered, ya fucking moron.

I know you are, but what am I?

So.eone needs attention today. Guess mommy is busy.

Bye bitch.

[quote] vegan food also calls for so much more water, energy, pesticide/herbicide and manufacturing than meat or dairy.

Lol R32 no you’re very confused.

[quote] If you think about it, domesticated farmed animals when bred and fed in sustainable and organic ways are sustainable, good for planet. They way they eat and excrete helps the soil, and it's an effective low-impact method that's been perfect over years of careful husbandry & management.

But they’re never bred or fed in sustainable ways. The meat and dairy industry pollutes on a far grander scale than animal free agriculture, and when you compare for instance emissions to the amount of food produced its glaringly obvious that non animal farming is less damaging to the world. Don’t lie girl.

My local vegan restaurant uses fake meat in some of their items, R92. For instance, the laksa includes shrimp and beef.

No one likes Indian food? "No one" in this case = red necky North Americans. One of the best things I've had at an Indian place was the stir-fried cabbage. I'm planning to try making an okra-and-potato curry from a you tube video soon. There's a lot more to it than just chicken tikka. Masala dosa, anyone?

R108 too bad I can't stand tofu. That shit is nasty.

[quote]If you think about it, domesticated farmed animals when bred and fed in sustainable and organic ways are sustainable, good for planet.

Nooooo. Feeding and caring for livestock animals that wouldn't be alive if it weren't to be milked and slaughtered takes up WAY more resources than just eating the produce we feed them would. And livestock produce 40% of the world's methane. A greenhouse gas. They're literally 40% responsible for climate change.

The one thing that I (and I am a lapsed vegetarian) have heard time and time again from other ex-vegetarians is that when they first started eating meat again, it made them very, very sick.

I never had that problem. The only problem I had was I didn't know how to eat meat on a bone. Someone gave me a chicken leg and I didn't want to pick it up, so I tried to eat it with a fork and knife 😂. Total disaster. 80% of the chicken left on the bone.

Eventually I got over my fear of bones and now I can eat a chicken leg like a pro.

So are you advocating killing all livestock R110?

R109: fried tofu isn't as slimy in texture, more chewy.

The local vegan joint does decent vegetarian pot stickers, as well an excellent noodles with pesto. Another local place does a terrific vegan dish: Korean-influenced tacos made with diced mushroom-eggplant as the "meat" filling.

[quote]So are you advocating killing all livestock [R110]?

That's quite a leap in logic. No more than you are advocating killing the whole planet.

I'm a meat eater, but I eat very, very little. I wouldn't be opposed to seeing the number of livestock animals gradually reduced to a fraction of what it is by not continuing to breed them and see people eat more vegetables and legumes.

I rarely eat beef, pork, and/or chicken. I just don't like those meats enough to buy them, cook them, etc.

I also don't eat plant-based or artificial meats.

I think eggplant and mushrooms are disgusting. I love crisp green salad stuff and beans but so many of the things vegetarians make casseroles and other dishes out of are vile. Mushrooms are basically a fungus that grows in shit, tastes musty and a spongey texture. Eggplant is just awful imo.

Awfully complicated, but fun to watch ...

[quote] So are you advocating killing all livestock

Isn’t all livestock killed anyway at some point? The animals you eat are dead you know. There would be no excess cruelty in a mass slaughter of every livestock animal then what pans out eventually anyway in terms of the result for the animals themselves.

In answer to your dumb question, as R114 pointed out, a gradual reduction in animal livestock numbers over time would be the most sustainable way to save our climate and reduce our reliance on animal agriculture for our food. Nobody needs to be eating meat for breakfast.

[quote] Mushrooms are basically a fungus that grows in shit, tastes musty and a spongey texture.

Just wait until you find out how cheese or yogurt is made R116.

As a vegetarian at 80 years old, I ended up with weak muscles and a B12 deficiency. Had trouble climbing stairs, etc. Exercise did little to put muscles back.

Went back on meat. Made sure my daily complete protein exceeded 100 grams. Now muscle is growing every day. Pushups are back, walking, running, etc.

Do be fair, there are ways to get B-12 and iron without eating meat. Meat was efficient and effective for you though, and I'm happy that your quality of life improved by giving your body what it was missing. Any 80 year old who is staying active and feeling good is a hero of mine!

R104 = a nimrod

R122 still triggered. Seriously. What is your deal?

R22 is a foreign female who is offended by "cunt" and uses insults pretty liberally if she disagrees with someone. According to her Americans are idiots. In other words an interloper and troll. Probably young too.

Here's a post copied from a forum I've read on the subject of diet, specifically cooking. It also really explains how our omnivorous diet advanced our species intellectually (the last statement, in particular):

If we hadn't done those somethings, we'd still be a small brained big bellied proto hominid hanging out in the horn of Africa barely seeing 20 years old. The difference was cooking. Probably the biggest single early influence on our species becoming what it is today. Walking upright? Nope we and others had been doing that for millions of years. Bigger brains? Yes, but others had similar sized brains at the time. Big brains are expensive and require protein and lots of it. Especially when growing. Lots more than scavenging raw meat and veggie sources could ever provide. We are the only animal that externalised it's own evolution. We needed more protein, but had evolved as veggie based great apes with a small meat sideplate. Our guts and teeth weren't designed as carnivores. No worries sez we. We'll make carnivore teeth in the form of tools. Our guts weren't designed as pure carnivores. Again no worries we'll predigest externally with fire and cooking(and sterilise the meat too). The result was that our teeth got smaller and smaller, as did our gut length and strength of stomach acid(as did our herbivore adaptations like the appendix). It also gave us one of the biggest gifts of all. Time. Finding and eating enough raw food takes time. Look at gorillas. Foraging and chewing from dawn to dusk

Excessive body odor and flatulence.

People don't make out vegetarians as sickly and frail nearly as much as OP believes.

Nope. Those that don't eat meat are fucked.

R110 "literally"

[quote]Nope. Those that don't eat meat are fucked.

Yeah, but they're still fucked by way hotter guys than you'll ever be, r128.

R130 I dunno. He looks like he might have sucked a cock or two. Or ridden!

[quote][R130] I dunno. He looks like he might have sucked a cock or two. Or ridden!

Maybe. But that isn't stopping him from fucking noted vegetarian Carrie Underwood.

A cockortwo? He looks more like he sucked a rainbow lorikeet.

People think horses and cows eat meat, please show real data, this is why we got Trump and the hooker.

[quote]Of course no one likes Indian food

R92 Except Indians, but I guess they don't matter.

I understand why vegetarians and vegans are sometimes overly zealous, crusading and humorless but i don't get why the rest of us feel the need to be so.

Let vegans graze in any paddock they choose. We don't have to listen to them. We can also eat them.

Just think about what the animal had to endure to wind up on your plate. Think hard!

[quote]People think horses and cows eat meat,

Show me where anyone said that.

Why R137? Seriously? We are apex predators.

[quote]Why [R137]? Seriously? We are apex predators.

Tell that to the next shark that eats a human and the next human that eats a shark.

Sharks gotta eat too. I don't eat sharks.

Holy hell!! 18,000 dead cattle!

If we were meant to be vegan, then why the fuck would we need B12?

[quote]If we were meant to be vegan, then why the fuck would we need B12?

Nobody's saying we need to be vegan. They're saying we CAN be vegan. We need oxygen too and that doesn't come from animals.

Besides. B-12, which can be sourced from animals isn't actually made by animals. It's made by bacteria. It can also come from root vegetables and natural water sources.

FYI - 2 teaspoons of Nutritional Yeast provide 313% of your RDA of B12!

No meat needed!!!

*of your [bold]DAILY[/bold] RDA of B12

[quote]People think horses and cows eat meat, please show real data, this is why we got Trump and the hooker.

In the wild, herbivores will eat meat, especially when pregnant, if their bodies tell them their diet is insufficient in certain nutrients.

[quote]Just think about what the animal had to endure to wind up on your plate. Think hard!

All in all, we are the most humane killers in the animal kingdom when it comes to the meat we eat. At least we kill it first before we start eating it. If you want to see what Mother Nature is really like, her savagery when it comes to animals eating each other, check out the instagram page posted above.

I've seen lions watching a zebra give birth only to eat the baby as soon as it plops out. Then they ate the mother. Animals dig into other animals while they are still alive with zero fucks given. So yeah we are horrible with the way we grow animals, and they are turned into products. That is the bad part about eating meat as humans. But eating meat in general, especially the way we hunted or grew them for millennia before now was absolutely humane, considering.

My great grandmother would go out into the yard, grab a chicken by the head and crack it's neck like a whip. Done. Then she'd feed her family with it. The town doctor probably didn't even know what the fuck B12 was then.

I just assume we have eye teeth for a reason. It's the way our body has naturally prepared us to provide it the proper nutrients it needs.

Early man didn't eat yeast.

But once they discovered it they happily brewed beer R151.

That's a stupid video and doesn't show anything, more data please.

[quote] I understand why vegetarians and vegans are sometimes overly zealous, crusading and humorless but i don't get why the rest of us feel the need to be so.

It’s funny, in almost every thread about this topic (and there’s been a bunch) it’s generally meat eaters complaining about (non existent) supposedly “angry, humourless” vegans in a really angry and hiumourless way. FWIW I eat meat but I’ve never encountered one of these ‘crusading vegans’ irl, and online generally the meat eaters seem to be the ones that get worked up against this imaginary threat to their diet. Just an observation.

R153

"The more I looked around, the more exceptions I began to find. It turns out that deer of various species have long been observed eating the flesh of the dead. Scientists have recorded deer devouring dead fish that had drifted to shore, gobbling them up at a rate of up to eight per minute. Deer have often been spotted feeding on larger carrion—sometimes even on the guts of other dead deer.

Deer belong to a group of animals called ruminants, which have a special organ called a rumen for digesting tough plants. Cows are probably the best-known ruminants (and have been witnessed eating birds). Yet even animals from this highly plant-specialized group will eat meat when given the chance. The various species of duiker (imagine a very small antelope with a fat belly) in Africa often eat carrion and have also been observed hunting for small birds and frogs.

Other groups of herbivores have also been caught crossing the divide. Hippopotamuses have been filmed eating meat often enough that it can’t be dismissed as a fluke. In fact, they have even been witnessed in the act of cannibalism. Most reports of hippos eating meat involve the scavenging of animals killed by other causes. But sometimes hippos will hunt, kill, and eat prey. In 2002, there were news reports from Ethiopia’s Kaffa Province of hippos killing and eating livestock.

These animals can’t tell us why they are eating meat. We can only speculate about what the advantage is in this behavior. It is entirely possible that deer and hippos eat meat now and then simply because they can and they feel like it. Every single facet of animal behavior does not have an evolutionary explanation. But in the long run, there is always upheaval: Habitats disappear, climates change, food sources shift, and old niches in ecosystems disappear as new ones emerge. Highly-specialized animals are more likely to become evolutionary dead-ends than are generalists."

R153

A herbivore that is willing to occasionally eat meat has the potential to either exploit an available niche as a predator, or to survive a brief period of starvation by eating meat when plants are scarce. For example, a prolonged drought may cause many herbivores to weaken and die, creating a scavenging opportunity for the survivors. Consuming meat from time to time may be a way for a species to maintain an option on carnivory, which may be the difference between extinction and survival in an emergency.

When we look at the evolutionary histories of some of these herbivores, we find even more omnivorous behavior in their past. Early forms of deer about 30 million years ago are thought to have eaten large amounts of grubs, insects, baby birds, eggs, and small mammals in addition to plant matter. Hippo ancestors split off from cetaceans about 60 million years ago—yes, whales and dolphins are their close kin—had teeth that suggest an omnivorous diet as well. These iconic herbivores have a lot of flesh-eating in their past.

Much like many college students I’ve known, the species we think of as herbivores may only be passing through a phase. They probably ate a lot of meat in the past, their descendants will eventually do so again, and meanwhile they indulge every so often when nobody seems to be paying attention.

My favorite part:

[quote]A flexible diet makes an animal more adaptable and more likely to survive than a fully-committed herbivore.[quote]

r153

One of the things I tell my students is that people like to make nice, neat categories for the natural world, then the natural world never fits neatly into them.

One good example is when animals that we think of as vegetarians, or herbivores, eat bones. Mammals need calcium and other minerals to build bones, teeth, and other things. When a mammal is pregnant or giving milk, she needs a lot of calcium. [quote]Plants generally don’t have a lot of calcium. So mother mammals chew on bones, even if they mostly live on plants. They don’t usually hunt small animals, but if they get a chance to eat a baby bird or a mouse, they probably will.[quote] Male mammals making antlers also need a lot of calcium.

Herbivorous mammals don’t have the tools to be good hunters. Their feet, teeth, and even the placement of their eyes are good for eating plants, not hunting animals. They probably wouldn’t stay healthy on an all-meat diet, but adding some meat gives them more protein, calcium, and other nutrients. That’s why companies that make food for cows often put animal protein in cattle feed.

Some carnivores, like cats, cannot become pure herbivores. They need some proteins from their food that they can’t make on their own. That’s why cats can’t live on dog food. It won’t poison them, but they won’t get all the nutrients they need.

I’m a vegetarian who never mentions it unless it becomes relevant (like when I’m ordering in a restaurant or commenting on this thread)

And still I see people reacting as if I’m a threat to their carnivorism. I don’t comment on what they order, yet I still get nasty comments from stupid people.

Well unfortunately r158 your people have been very vocal about who they are and why they do what they do, tying it into even saving the earth. They have been aggressive at times in trying to convert people to their way of thinking, saying things like "Meat is Murder," like r137 above. So you unfortunately carry the baggage of your people with you when you sit down and order something to eat at a restaurant.

So vegetarians can come across like non-alcoholics who don't drink at dinner - judgemental. And so people who do order meat feel judged for their choices and respond accordingly.

“Your people”?

I’m not a part of any vegetarian community. I just choose not to eat meat.

I don’t understand people who even notice, much less judge, what other people eat.

I realize this happens all the time, but mind your own business for a change.

Meat eaters feeling threatened by the existence of vegetarians is as stupid as straight people being afraid of the existence of gays.

R159 "Meat is Murder" So you don't like hearing the truth, it's what you are saying

[quote] All in all, we are the most humane killers in the animal kingdom when it comes to the meat we eat.

Not everybody would agree. For anybody who's interested, I would recommend "Diet for a New America" by John Robbins of the Baskin-Robbins ice cream family. Both the dairy and meat industries employ questionable (to say the least) practices.

I'm not preaching, here. I still eat cheese, milk products (sour cream, yogurt) and a small amount of meat. But this book does make you think.

I don't know, I still think it's not good to completely cut out meat. Cut down, yes, eat less, but I still think a varied diet is the best diet. Eat a lot of different food, in small portions.

Good for you, r165. If that’s what’s right for you, do it.

Lots of fat vegetarians. Their diet is mostly cheese.

[quote]FWIW I eat meat but I’ve never encountered one of these ‘crusading vegans’ irl, and online generally the meat eaters seem to be the ones that get worked up against this imaginary threat to their diet. Just an observation.

Exactly. That was one of the many reasons I almost never mentioned it to strangers if the subject came up (like at a party, "try the sliders!" "No, thanks" "c'mon! Just try one"). People look at you like you're a two headed circus freak.

One time I was having a conversation with a friend of a friend and he was going on and on about how Kansas City BBQ was superior to all other BBQs and he kept asking what I thought. Finally I relented and said "well, actually I'm a vegetarian. I've had BBQ, but I don't really know what the difference between all the types is."

This dude lost his fucking MIND! "A vegetarian?!! Oh my god, I could never do that! All you eat is rabbit food? God that must be awful! Do you just eat lettuce and bean sprouts?"

I just waited until he was done and then asked him what he did for a living. Worked for the federal government, US Patent Office. So I started saying "oh JESUS! That sounds like a nightmare! God, could you have picked a MORE boring job? Do you have to sit in a cubicle under fluorescent lights all day. Wishing you'd chosen another profession? Lord, I could never do that. If I ever decide to do that, please just shoot me!"

He just stared at me then sorta slowly made his way over to another group (where he probably told them about the vegetarian freak he'd just met).

And I'm almost 99% sure he didn't understand why what I was saying was essentially the same things he was saying and how fucking rude it was. Probably never even learned his lesson.

People need to mind their business about what others are eating. Even if I see an obese person eating huge quantities of junk food I judge silently.

I’m having veal tonight.

R170 I picked up some ribeyes for tonight. I'm not kidding but this thread got me wanting a steak since it started. Some asparagus and good red wine and I can't wait.

[quote] Let vegans graze in any paddock they choose. We don't have to listen to them. We can also eat them.

When the world ends and we have no more stable food supply I'm Kuru-ing the first vegan who crosses my path

[quote]I’m having veal tonight.

Enjoy! Need a recipe? I have delicious prune and veal cutlet one!

I’ve been a vegetarian and sometimes pescatarian in phases for 20 years. But I ate way too many carbs for most of it and some processed fake meat. I doubt I got enough protein because I only recently started eating a lot of nuts and beans and Greek yogurt. I don’t always get 50g or more of protein per day which is a real concern for me as I start to approach my 40s. I’m on the fence about whether to introduce humanely raised chicken to have a protein source other than legumes, nuts, fish, and cheese. My health has gotten worse so as much as I’d like to remain a pescatarian, I may not be able to. But some people do fine on a vegetarian or vegan diet, just not me.

I’ve never been preachy about it (I don’t care if others eat met or not, I just chose not to generally) although I’ve gotten plenty of rude comments from meat-eaters about it.

R160, if you are R158, you described yourself as a vegetarian. In this thread, vegetarians are "Your People."

I don't know what it was about the cookie. I guess because vegans don't eat them.

[quote] In this thread, vegetarians are "Your People."

I don’t know why this is so important to you, but whatever

[quote]"Meat is Murder" So you don't like hearing the truth, it's what you are saying

R163, if meat is murder the same way abortion is murder, I'm all for it. You can throw the death penalty in there too. It doesn't bother me, no.

[quote]Not everybody would agree. For anybody who's interested, I would recommend "Diet for a New America" by John Robbins of the Baskin-Robbins ice cream family. Both the dairy and meat industries employ questionable (to say the least) practices.

R164 Obviously you didn't read the entire statement, as most people do on here. They only read the part that sets their head on fire and they rush to post. You missed the part that said:

[quote]So yeah we are horrible with the way we grow animals, and they are turned into products. That is the bad part about eating meat as humans.

If it really was "whatever" r77 you wouldn't have taken your time to comment on it twice.

Hear me out I've just had a notion....what if we reared and processed Furries for meat instead? Would solve a few issues

R174, what about eating more eggs? You can probably find free-range eggs at local supermarkets. I used to have a source eggs. (My friend's mom had chickens in her yard and she'd sell the eggs for a reasonable price.)

[quote] If it really was "whatever" [R77] you wouldn't have taken your time to comment on it twice.

Try as you might, you won’t be able to push my buttons.

There are close to 8 billion people in the world. More than half of them live in 3rd world conditions. And a large portion of those who don't live close to if not below what we consider a poverty line. The idea of choosing what you will and won't it is definitely a rarified first world problem. And not even all of the first world even bothers to consider it.

Vegans and vegetarians would die in Italy. I had horse and donkey in Verona, and my god was it delicious. And the amount they served, I was thinking they must kill four horses a year to supply the demand. Abbacchiio, a spring lamb, is literally a lamb that looks like it was quartered right after it was pulled out of it's mother. After WW11 people were eating their cats. They eat a lot of pasta but they will eat every part of an animal. Fastidiousness over what you will or won't eat - vegan, vegetarian or gluten free - will get you strange looks. They will consider you Fastidioso - annoying, bothersome, pesky - when there are so many starving people in the world.

Of course Italians don't mass produce animals in the same conditions as Americans. The stuff at the local grocery store would have five seals of approval in the states - grass feed, free range, hormone free, biological, pasture raised. But raising animals in such a humane way is just a given there. It's not something they pat themselves on the back over.

[quote]Try as you might, you won’t be able to push my buttons.

Well someone needs to push your reset button r182, your personality is stuck on one note.

R178 What does abortion has to do with eating meat? Are you touched in the head?

R183 "Vegans and vegetarians would die in Italy."

Yes, because there are no vegans or vegetarians in the entire country of Italy. What an idiot you are.

r185 there are several groups that align it under the same ethical principles. . . you find them in the horseshoe bend of the far left movement. Mostly the older anti-war sects.

[quote] Well someone needs to push your reset button [R182], your personality is stuck on one note.

Yawn

Wowza! This thread is a mess.

You should eat what you are comfortable eating. I am no longer comfortable eating meat, but am okay with eggs and dairy.

Yes, vegans can be a little over the top, but not all of them are. Also, it seems as though a lot of vegans (Bill Clinton, Eric Adams) aren't doing it for ethical reasons, but for health reasons. I could be wrong about this.

Most people posting here don't live in third world countries. We have options. If we choose to be vegetarian, why does that bother you? The new more expensive vegetarian stuff at Taco Bell is fantastic.

I have turned into a slightly fat vegetarian, but I was thin for years and years. Yes, some of us are a little heavy, but we're not disgustingly fat. Maybe some are, but not the vegetarians I've met. (Although my mom says a vegetarian broke one of her outdoor chairs at a potluck in the 70's.)

You are threatened by us. That is your issue, not ours.

It is usually for ethical reasons. And the cat thing is a problem. Most of us have pet cats, but we have to feed them meaty cat food. This is a huge unsolved problem.

At some point abortion probably is murder, but where are you going to draw the line? Should women have to be pregnant as much as they can be, because an egg could have been fertilized into a person? No way. We should try to cut down on the need for abortion for sure though.

I do believe that different people crave or need different types of food, but I don't know why. My teen daughter becomes an animal when she gets her period, and we have to get her McDonald's. My sister is like that too. I am not. I can't even drink a glass of milk without barfing.

I have seen a deer eat a Milkbone doggy treat that I threw outside for a fox. I then read about deer not being exclusive vegetarians. It disgusted me, but oh well.

What else do you want to know?

When I was in my 20s and a vegetarian, my sister ate very much like me. Didn't really like meat and mostly avoided it. And my dad didn't ever like pork or turkey.

I vividly remember one Christmas where my mom asked both of them if they would eat a ham or turkey for Christmas dinner and I can't remember if they said, maybe or flat out no, but I remember her just breaking down in tears, saying she was just going to buy a very small turkey breast and eat it all by herself.

Christmas was her favorite holiday and she was just so upset (I almost wish I could go back in time and agree to have a little turkey to appease her).

Anyway, I don't recall what led to this, but instead of making ham or Turkey and all the traditional sides, we made burritos and homemade egg rolls!! We're neither Hispanic nor Asian. This was in no way a traditional Christmas dinner. We had big burritos with black beans and sweet potatoes, spinach, cilantro rice and my mom made herself a little grilled chicken. And we just made cabbage and bean sprout homemade egg rolls!

The next year we went back to the traditional ham or turkey and my dad and sister had some, I just ate sides, and peace was restored.

But my mom's sister and my cousin both eat the same way my sister and I do. Very, very little meat. So it runs in the family. 🤷🏻

Also, don't a lot of people in Asia eat soy? How can it really be that bad for you?

[quote]I have turned into a slightly fat vegetarian, but I was thin for years and years.

Yeah, I gained weight slowly as a vegetarian. I think it has more to do with age and genetics than simply diet. I had a roommate who was (but probably NEVER) should have been a vegetarian. He was one of those cheese pizza and pasta with plain marinara on it only vegetarians. I don't recall ever seeing him eat a vegetable in my life. And he was always rail thin. I couldn't eat like that.

I have cats and honestly never thought twice or felt guilty for feeding them meat. Cats are obligate carnivores. They eat meat or die. And I posted above that I was never a vegetarian for ethical (or even health) reasons. I just don't love meat.

[quote] And the cat thing is a problem. Most of us have pet cats, but we have to feed them meaty cat food. This is a huge unsolved problem.

I do think this is an area that's hard to reconcile. I would argue that you aren't vegan if you have cats and feed them animal meat. No, I'm not saying to put your cats on a vegan diet, but I don't think you can call yourself vegan.

[quote]Also, don't a lot of people in Asia eat soy?

The main problem is soy contains isoflacvnes which can bind estrogen receptors. The FDA promoted soy as heart healthy, but they may have retracted that. And like all hormones, how much you eat (and who you are) can cause contradictory results. Like in some people, it can be protective, while in some others, it can increase your likelihood of breast cancer. I think you have to eat a LOT of soy before you have to worry though.

I didn't know this until I was an adult, but I'm lactose intolerant (I've always know that). But as a baby, my mom had to bottle feed me soy milk.

I'm 50! I didn't even realize they HAD soy milk in the early 70s!! I totally thought It was a 90s era fad.

I really don't like soy milk, so when alternatives like rice, almond and oat milk finally showed up, I was so happy. They're so much better than plain soy milk. I can actually get almond and other types of ice cream. I could never eat ice cream as a kid.

Soy milk does have more protein, though, than the nut milks, oat milk, and rice milk.

Why on earth would a deer eating a soggy milkbone disgust you? MARY!

Also, cats needing meat shouldn't be an ethical problem. JFC, they are meat eaters. They are what they are. This is why extreme vegans are considered insane.

[quote]What does abortion has to do with eating meat? Are you touched in the head?

Because anti-abortion activists and anti-meat eaters use MURDER in pretty much the same way R185. People scream Abortion is murder to try and make you feel guilty about it in pretty much the same virulent way some Vegetarian / Vegans scream Meat is murder to make you feel guilty about eating it.

You asked me if I was "scared of the truth" about meat being murder. In both cases, call it what you wan't, it doesn't make me feel guilty for supporting both practices.

I couldn't care less who eats what. Just don't preach to me. That's all I ask.

And yes, it's vegans who preach. Meat eaters might try and push you toward something (ie "the filet here is amazing!"), but vegans will full on make you feel weird if you order bacon.

One of my best friends (who I adore) is vegan and I have to warn any third party friend of mine who joins for a meal that my vegan friend WILL ask about meat eating habits. And give all the stats as to why veganism is the way to go.

She's harmless. And she can do it in a way that has some charm. But it does end up feeling a bit like a Mormon on your front porch.

R201 that comparison just doesn’t hold any water sorry.

right lads group cann!balism starts in five minutes

Seems like your skull definitely does r203.

[quote] Meat eaters feeling threatened by the existence of vegetarians is as stupid as straight people being afraid of the existence of gays.

Or gay people being afraid of the existence of trans people.

Gays that don't like trans people don't like them because the gays had a good thing going on acceptance wise in society, actual real growth before trans forced society to accept them as natural born men and women. No we are all lumped in together again as circus freak sexual predators.

R207 You don't speak for all of us.

I honestly don't think my goal is to be accepted by society.

R201 That's bullshit. Most of the vegans/vegetarians are pro abortion and vice versa

R192 "You should eat what you are comfortable eating" So cats, dogs, humans... you are okay with it?

R211, I am certainly not okay with that. I find it disgusting. I don't eat dogs, cats, or humans. Do you?

We should gas meat eaters.

Trolling too hard R213.

R212 No. But there are people that are comfortable with eating that.

Cannibalism is so very rare its ridiculous even mentioning it and only Asians eat cats and dogs AFAIK. Europeans eat horse meat, something Americans will not. It's all cultural.

[quote]We should gas meat eaters.

I'm just waking up and caffeinating and my brain interpreted that as "We should eat gas meters" and I thought "huh. That's an odd suggestion".

That said, I'm NOT on board with gassing anyone.

Clearly our new set of trolls have been told to just cause as many fights as they can

R216 "Only Asians" Yeah, cause there's so little of them in the world

Number doesn't matter R219. It's culturally acceptable there. That may be changing due to westernization and better access to food.

R210 you missed the point ENTIRELY. I wasn't saying they are the same. I am saying that both camps use the word MURDER the same to over-exaggerate an action to make you feel guilty about it. I swear it's no fun having discussions on here anymore because people's reading comprehension skills are for shit and every thread goes down a wormhole of miscommunication.

Stay on point, gurrrrlllllls.

Its fine, a good diet as long as supplemented. But, one has to work out or just eat produce. The vast amount of carbs is unsustainable if one wants to stay in shape.