Elizabeth Hubbard is DEAD TO ME

I don't know her.

Loved her as Lucinda on ATWT, apparently she's also in ORDINARY PEOPLE but I can't remember who her character was.

Did anyone tell Ambrose?

r2, she was in the Christmas party scene. Blink and you'll miss her.

R4 Is she the one sitting on the steps with Donald Sutherland talking about Conrad?

Goodbye, darling. See you on the other side.

Buck would never have sat on the stairs.

Loved her as Lucinda. My sister-in-law got me into ATWT in the late 80s. I had watched the ABC soaps since the 1970s, but had gradually grown bored with OLTL. ATWT at the time had better storylines. Elizabeth Hubbard always delivered.

I couldn't stand Martha Byrne, though. Or more accurately, the character of Lily. Soaps had an awful tendency back then to make a teen girl character the focus to the exclusion of too many other storylines. Lily on ATWT, Cricket on Y&R, Julie on AMC. I hated that tendency. I only liked Lily when she was sparring with Lucinda, and even though Lucinda was usually wrong I rooted for her because Elizabeth Hubbard was so damn good.

That leaves Jada Rowland as the sole survivor of the leading cast of The Doctors. Jim Pritchett, Lydia Bruce, David O'Brien, Gerald Gordon, and now Liz are all gone. I think she's just about to turn 80. Time flies.

r5, no that's not her. I looked at the clip on youtube, but I don't see her. The last time I looked was probably in the 1990s, and I was certain she was in this scene. Does anyone else spot her?

Hubbard as Lucinda was one of the greats of daytime soaps. Sad news.

If she was so great, why couldn't she climb out of the daytime ghetto her entire career?

This was my soap in high school and college, and Lucinda was my favorite character. RIP Liz. Thanks for the laughs, the drama, the much-needed distractions.

Oh Lucy, we came a long way.

I loved Lucinda so much, one of my first passwords was 0ldLucy!

R10 It's definitely her at 24 seconds into the Ordinary People clip, she's peppered throughout the scene.

At one point you can clearly hear her voice telling Mary "you look as beau-ti-ful, as ev-er".

Has Julia Duffy released a statement?

Thanks, r16. Of course that's Liz. I don't know why I couldn't see it at first.

She won a daytime Emmy for First Ladies Diaries, but not for As the World Turns.

Where's Martha's statement? Is she pulling a Susan Dey?

I would not have guessed Eileen Fulton would have outlived her.

She was amazing as Althea on The Doctors. Such a great performance.

Here's Martha, r20:

Awaiting Julia Duffy's statement.

Harpo, who dis woman?

I recall seeing Liz in OP with her character's husband going out one night with Beth and Calvin.

You hear that recognizable knowing chuckle she often gave.

She was the best. I met her briefly and she was such a lovely person.

She was ok, but she was no Susan Lucci.

I could have sworn she was in The Turning Point. But if she was, it wasn't credited and/or she's only in it for a second.

Thank God, r28.

She was one of the greats. Loved her ad-libs as Lucinda.

Lovely statement from Martha Byrne.

Last laugh, Emma Snyder.

She worked with a lot of faggots.

She was also in the ballet movie, Center Stage.

I’ve always been curious about her son, Jeremy. He and I are around the same age. Judging from his post maybe he was reared abroad or in Canada… does anyone know?

She really was one of the Mount Rushmore of Soap Opera Grande Dames

[quote] She was also in the ballet movie, Center Stage.

Maybe I'm confusing this with Turning Point.

I think judging from some photos in Jeremy's FB she may have been sick for a while. She was in bed.

R4- Regarding Ordinary People-She was also in the theatre/walking out of the theatre scene with Beth and Cal..

R19, I'm really surprised she never won a Daytime Emmy for her role as Lucinda, although she was nominated eight times for the role. She did win one for her role as Althea Davis on The Doctors, though, so at least she did win one Daytime Emmy.

Did the Emmy panel hate her?

She won two, but one was for a tv movie (and was considered a daytime Emmy, so I'm not sure how it was presented).

She'd have wiped the floor with McCunty if they were to have shared a scene. Liz would have no patience with her 15 weeks off a year that she complained about.

Who?

r44=Julia Duffy

[quote]Did the Emmy panel hate her?

Year ago, I remember reading on a soap board that her scene partners weren't always thrilled with the ad-libbing and such. Don't know if it's true or not, but that could be a reason.

She was a ham as Lucinda. And meant to be one. I loved her as Althea. Nick and Althea were one of the first super couples. A lot of people had a hard time dealing with their on screen break up, and desperately wanted them back together. Althea's stories, post-Nick, were laughable. She had competition in scene chewing from the great Lois Smith, who played her bf's psycho wife, Eleanor Conrad. Eleanor would recite poems, and the looks Althea gave were priceless - and an early glimpse in Lucinda's tricks.

I was looking at how many times she left and came back to The Doctors. They must have really loved/needed her, as she seemed to have an open door policy there.

Her Althea was fantastic.

She had great chemistry with Gerald Gordon, who played Dr. Nick Bellini.

Hollywood Reporter's obit.

I HATED her adlibbing. I shit on her picture.

Anna Stuart has said that Liz mastered the technique at reading off the cue cards. Liz would tilt her head sideways when she was reading them, so as not to appear looking off to the side, like Jim Pritchett or Connie Ford would do all the time.

I wish I could find the clips from 1991 when Lucinda is ousted at Walsh by Connor. Her work was excellent in those scenes.

Deadline's obit.

Her adlibbing was so fucking crazy. A remnant of a less professional time. Sometimes I was amused, most of the time I empathized with her scene partners who had to put on a fixed expression and wait for her to finish.

On the more amusing side, she fucked most of her male co-stars and was decidedly age agnostic. She was the first older woman to many of her early 20s actors and had affairs with married men in their 60s. She also sport-fucked her gay castmates because she thought it was funny.

I can’t remember what I had for dinner last night but it’s kinda scary that, seeing her name, the first thing that popped into my head was “Althea” , on a soap opera I watched maybe one summer and it was her and Nick.

She didn't seem like a very nice or gracious person. On her Locher Room interview last year, she nastily referred to her Doctors co-star Nancy Stafford as "a shoe model."

Don Hastings knows that he is on very, very, very borrowed time.

Who did she fuck on ATWT? I always thought she had great chemistry with most of her male co-stars.

R57 She was a cunt! People are cheering over her passing. About god damned time the bitch croaked off!!!!

She had McCouch, Hensley, Hastings, and the dude who played the cop who died by suicide IRL. Also the Jewish kid who played Noah’s boyfriend.

Among others

Now that she's gone the truth can be revealed. Julie was her nickname.

How many extras that she berated are singing Lizzo’s “It’s About GodDamned Time” this bitch croaked!!!!!!!

[quote] Did the Emmy panel hate her?

No, but she was almost never in the kind of life and death stories that actors like Viki Sleestak and Kim Zimmer were in.

Her cancer story really should have gotten a win - but then again, so should the scenes re Lily finding out she was adopted.

sport-fucked her gay co-stars?

please explain in more (but not all) detail.

She left The Doctors in the late 60s to try her luck in Hollywood. I believe she got some episodic work. She came back and then Doug Marland wrote her off the show in either 76 or 77. Then she returned when, I think, Lemay was writing The Doctors in 80 or 81 and stayed until the end. I think Penny had died and Althea was dating a much younger doctor. I want to say the character's name was Jeff Manning and his father was played by the guy who played Grant Coleman and Elliot Carrington and Steven Cord.

Played *Luke’s boyfriend

Please. I'm still trying to wrap my head around Betsy marrying Nick Costello, and Casey Peretti marrying Beatrice.

I can't deal with Lucinda fucking Holden and Hal Munson.

Has Chris Goutman commented yet?

R55 is having a laugh, clearly.

When she returned to The Doctors in 1981, the very gay Jean LeClerc was playing her bf. She had some very gracious things to say about him. She enjoyed working with him very much.

[quote] I can't deal with Lucinda fucking Holden and Hal Munson.

Hal Munson was allergic to fish.

She never fucked me.

Where is the old witch gonna be buried? I’d LOVE to shit on her grave.

shhhhhh spicen

Nick Costello and Casey Peretti could GET IT

My mom always watched The Doctors. Although I was quite young at the time, I always liked watching her. I don’t remember much about the show, but she stands out.

R76 I’m not Spicen. MonticelloEdge here.

Nick Bellini was an early imprint on me as the type of guy I wanted.

[quote]Nick Bellini was an early imprint on me as the type of guy I wanted.

Me too!! Nick was sex on a stick.

Has Vee commented yet? Vee's in the biz, ya know.

My favorite Liz moment at ATWT was her (assumed) ad lib at Lisa's whatever number wedding, to Earl Mitchell:

*turns to James Stenbeck"

"She's wearing white!!??!??"

[quote]I can't deal with Lucinda fucking Holden and Hal Munson.

Pussycat!

[quote] I can't deal with Lucinda fucking Holden and Hal Munson.

At the same time?

Kink-aaay!

She was your typically low-energy P&G actress. I always advocated for someone like Shannon Tweed or Jaime Lyn Bauer joining ATWT. They had a certain vitality and would've showed Liz etc. how it's done

Shannon Tweed?

Vee, who’s in the biz, is giving her eulogy. Vee is in the biz, you know.

Ahh, yes, Spicen and his Shannon Tweed obsession.

Poor Martha. Lost Liz and Lisa within the same year. I hope they're in heaven continuing to devour the scenery.

I have tons of blocked posts on this thread (thank goodness). Has the Drew Dixon troll showed up yet?

Who??

Oh for fuck’s sake. Lisa Brown and scenery chewer Liz weren’t poor Martha Byrne’s mothers.

I think she did quit for Hollywood in 1969, maybe? But I also think she was pregnant, and replaced by Virginia Vestoff, who was stiff compared to Liz. She was back within a year, as Althea.

[quote]Has the Drew Dixon troll showed up yet?

Yes, he has, Spicen is all over this thread.

Did her Q score ever exceed DL fave Kathy Glass's? Dear Liz is nowhere to be found among the top 5 in May 1976, courtesy of Daytime TV Magazine.

Q score, Week of May 24-28, 1976, Actress, Daypart:

1. Kathy Glass

2. Susan Seaforth Hayes

3. Jacqueline Courtney

4. Eileen Fulton

5. Denise Alexander

Spicen and his 5 (at least) socks are in overdrive.

FF and ignore this mentally ill fuckwit.

[quote] But I also think she was pregnant, and replaced by Virginia Vestoff, who was stiff compared to Liz

When the original Retro TV repeats were happening various Twitter/soap posters called Vestoff "Redthea." No one seemed to enjoy her performance much. (Probably in part because Althea became a simpering fool and an amnesiac.)

Ambrose! Jane!

MATTHEW!

[quote]"She's wearing white!!??!??"

Bless you for the laugh. I wish I could share it with my mom.

I wish they'd have brought Althea back in time for the Cult that took over Hope Memorial with David Canary's hambone 'Far Wind' - imagine all the fun a scene between those two!

She had fantastic chemistry with Scott Bryce (Craig)

Who next? Fulton? Hastings? Bryggman? Widdowes? Masters?

I’m gonna live forever!

From Scott Bryce:

"She was astonishing. Liz RIP. Love you woman."

One of my favorite Liz ad libs was when new kid in town Dr. Casey Peretti came to give Lucinda a heart check-up at home. He said, "Okay, I'm leaving now, but Dr. Dixon told me to come back after you've settled down and take your blood pressure again." Lucinda extended an arm in his direction, threw back her head, and murmured, "Yes, come back. Come back and take me. TAKE ME UNAWARES." Bill Shanks (Casey) looked like he was going to lose it, but to his credit, he just rolled his eyes, like, "Who IS this nutty dame?"

I just Diana screamed and I think La Hubbard would appreciate that, darling.

When I worked on the show, the network dictated that, during the summer months, every episode open with youth… or Lucinda. Because her character was so popular with young viewers.

To the question posed earlier about why she didn’t break out of soaps. Listen, she lived in the country in CT. And in those days, lead soap roles paid well. She wasn’t getting rich but it afforded her a stable, upper middle class life. And she lived in a beautiful town (where Sondheim lived). LA is a whole different animal.

Not many actors have financial security anywhere approaching what she had. What, go to LA and pick up episodes in prime time? Unless you land a network series, it’s not much to live on.

Worked with her on ATWT. Excellent actress but not a nice person.

What was it Bette Davis said? “You should never say bad things about the dead, only good…we’ll, Elizabeth Hubbard is dead. Good.”

I’m sure every soap actor dreamed of making it in primetime or movies, but landing a long running soap gig was a pretty sweet deal back in the daytime heyday.

Years ago, 1970 to be exact, I was an apprentice at the Ogunquit Playhouse on the Straw Hat Circuit and Elizabeth Hubbard came through in a fine production of BLITHE SPIRIT. She starred as the ghostly yet sexy Elvira opposite Noel Harrison as Charles Condomine, the role his father created on the West End and in the film. She was lovely. Ruth, the second wife, was played by Angela Thornton, who I think was also a soap star for awhile.

And Mary Orr, who wrote the original story The Wisdom of Eve, that ALL ABOUT EVE was based upon, played the small role of Mrs. Bradman, but was wooed for interviews than the other stars because the musical APPLAUSE had recently opened.

I watched ATWT in the 1980s. I wasn't too crazy about her weird line readings and obviously relaxed attitude toward delivering them as written (it seemed unprofessional too me), but she sure was entertaining and clearly had talent. I enjoyed her on the show.

Speaking of Eileen Fulton, way upthread, who could never get her lines right, either: I always remember how she pronounced Lucinda's last name as "Walch." It's like when people mispronounce the word "Welsh" as "Welch"; probably some regionalism that, in a professional actress, seems ignorant not to train yourself out of.

I put her in her place and almost hired Scoche Marin as a recast for Lucinda!!!

Has Robert Redford issued a statement?

Isn’t her son a homosexualist?

When Hubbard first appeared , she changed the whole dynamic of the show. There was just a flamboyance and an energy that wasn't there before. I'm sure the new , younger actors must have been scared to death to work with her, because of her improvisational style. But she really clicked with others, particularly Scott Bryce and Tom Wiggin. Her put-downs of the Snyders were a Datalounge dream. I think she was very upset when idiot producer Goutman replaced Martha Byrne with some bland actress from "Loving".

Good for Behr! It was refreshing to see someone FINALLY stand up to that entitled dragon. And extra credit for firing that homely DeFreitas creature.

Has Felicia Behr commented yet? What about Susan Batten?

FMB demanded that Liz take acting lessons. She recommended Susan Lucci's acting teacher. Lucci has an Emmy, Liz doesn't. That speaks for itself.

There was a poster on the Midwestern threads who who said they were part of the Emmy selection board and they personally disliked reviewing Hubbard's work, not because she wasn't great, but because the way she reconstructed all her lines made viewing tough:

"Darling, I won't be going to Iva Syder's party tonight. No, I WON'T be going to Iva Snyder's party tonight. Because, darling. I can't face it. I CAN'T face it."

[quote] Her character was so popular with young viewers.

I remember reading something about a guy who taught soap opera in his media academic class, and his students all loved Lucinda and Margo the best. They wanted tough women with experience and confidence, and the shows gave them everything but....

As to why she stayed on soaps, she did come and go a few times, but for a single woman with a young child, it probably made sense to do soaps. Which is also why we had Beverlee McKinsey and Victoria Wyndham in soaps. All working mothers.

I think the parallel would be that she was often ATWT's Shelley Long - she would fight like hell over a simple script. She drove people crazy but I guess she felt it was worth the blood spilled to show on screen.

She did enliven ATWT. It was a snorefest, otherwise.

She was a great actor and a class act, but I can understand if the ad-libbing caused problems. Soaps are about speed. If one actor is ad-libbing and it's causing other actors to miss their cues, that slows everything down.

Personally, I think all of Hubbard's "extra" brought life to character and enhanced what was on the page.

I love Wikipedia (from the character bio:) Soon after they married, during Lucinda's recovery, she noticed that Brain would not consummate their marriage.

Sharp as a tack, that one.

Making Lucinda desperate for a man's cock made about as much sense as Alex letting Cyrus scam her on GL.

I gasped at the news!

My ex was an extra on all the NYC soaps in the 90s. He said the most gracious people were Erika Slezak, Kim Zimmer, and Susan Lucci. Three guesses who he named as the worst person to work with.

I always remembered her birthday in December.

ATWT and GL just about saved my life, so I remember those shows (and those years) fondly.

So many in ATWT's cast in particular are all the same age. We've already lost Kathy Hays and Liz....I know Eileen and Don are close in age, as well, and Kathleen Widdoes isn't too far behind. And I still cannot believe we lost Lisa Brown so early. So sad.

I liked the story of Althea and John on "The Doctors". Patrick Horgan would always refer to Nick by just his last name, with total contempt. The fourth person in the triangle was neurotic nurse Cathy Ryker, played by three actresses (most notably Nancy Barrett), who continued to haunt John offscreen even after her death, and the mention of her name would constantly disturb him. Elizabeth and Nancy were reunited on "One Life to Live" during the Echo diSavoy trial, reuniting Liz and Kim Zimmer. Patrick Horgan came onto "As the World Turns" as Penny's husband, as did Geraldine Court (second stint) playing Jennifer Hobart who had damaging info on Lisa's ex, Grant, bringing James Douglas (another "Doctors" vet) back. Too bad when Anna Stuart recurred on ATWT as Donna, she didn't share any scenes with Luz.

I guess they used to use the actual scripts for closed captions. This didn’t align with what she was saying often. Eventually they did the CC from the actual shows, which was less fun for those viewers who liked to see how she changed it up.

Loved her on Columbo

The Lucy Deakins statement is up.

She fucked Bryce and the guy who played Tonio, too.

That Tonio guy fucked all the women.

who?

r135=Virginia Vestoff

Did she try to make a man out of Van Hansis?

I think the lack of awards related to her habit of upstaging other actors.

She was always finding business to do. Often it involved her glasses… moving them around on her face, scanning the lenses for spots, punching them in the air…

You couldn’t take your eyes off her. But that sometimes came at the expense of other actors. Voters being other actors, I suspect they thought her too selfish.

She was categorized as a bitch. She was difficult, to say the least.

Hubbard had an Emmy long before Lucci did, lol.

I always loved the Maggie/Althea friendship on TD. Liz didn't play tricks when acting with either Bethel Leslie or Lydia Bruce. You bought this friendship between 2 professional women.

Was she in the golf scene with Beth and Cal when Beth had a meltdown?

Yes, r130, you may have heard that from me. I used to jog on the treadmill during the show so I watched with closed captioning. At that point Tom Wiggin was totally over her adlibbing and would say his lines as written regardless of what Liz had given him, even if it didn't make sense. Shawn Christian was on the show at that point and he said every line letter perfect.

Althea was a totally different character and she played it that way. Lucinda was a creation and a character, so I think Hubbard played her big and bold like a 1940s movie star.

I think Althea and Lucinda would have despised each other.

Awww. Fuck! I’m so sorry to hear this. I had no idea she was sick.

RIP, dear lady. ❤️

I was already mourning, so this is an added depression. Still, wasn’t she marvelous? I still giggle at her physical ad lib with Lucinda stepping in dog doo at the Snyder farm.

I remember reading that in addition to adlibbing as Lucinda, she also often worked hard to get under-five actors (like the young man who played Matthew the butler) to go over their five lines so that they’d be paid more and maybe even see their part beefed up.

Like the adlibbing itself, I’m sure that sometimes proved difficult for production, but to me that just one more reason to love Liz Hubbard.

She sounds to me like one of those people who is fearless, who just said fuck it, I'm going to have fun (with the scripts) or fuck it, I'm going to get that extra some more money or a SAG card or whatever. Fearless is often a pain in the ass in execution, if some kind of admirable for bucking the system.

She was the real deal.

Her death made a lot places that kind of surprised me for a soap actress. Either Variety and/or Hollywood Reporter, couple of British tabloids.

R149 Variety, THR and Deadline report on those deaths.

The NYT used to cover soap actors' deaths, especially the NY actors, but they haven't for a while. Never mind that Hubbard was on Broadway numerous times as well.....They're busy finding random people who have been dead for years and are thus "overlooked."

Didn't the NYT cover Kathryn Hays' death, though?

He’s, she got an obit. But keep in mind they often don’t have them ready to go for figures who aren’t legendary.

I remember contacting the NYT when McKinsey died and they hadn't mentioned her death - they eventually did run an obit.

But they did not for Harding Lemay. Who really, of all people, should have had one.

Harding Lemay should have had an NYT obit. I recall the discussion here at the time.

But I also recall that the death was never officially confirmed, Forget how we even found out about it, but it was never confrimed by a family member or a funeral home, which caused problems for the NYT needing confirmation before they can run the obit.

R154 Oh yeah, you're right. I think someone from AW (possibly Lady Eyes a Buggin herself) put in a paid obit. Something was weird there, estranged or something like that.... So there was never a news obit.

[quote]He’s, she got an obit.

I didn’t know Kathy Hays was related to Anne He He.

Anne He He was the divine daughter of The Donnas.

DARLING!

Oh Good. Digest reported Kin Shriner's tweet on Hubbard.

What happened to real reporting?

Digest hasn't done real reporting in years. All they do is reprint whatever someone said on social media.

And besides no real reporting, the funniest thing about Digest is that most of their covers now consist of a group of actors' heads that they've put together. Often the same head photograph is used over and over. And any actor who's a senior citizen is face-tuned to look 40 or less.

that floating heads don't bother me too much nor does the ad on the back cover

it's the pages in between that matter. I flipped through that special Y&R issue and they didn't do many if any interviews with actors from the Brooks/Foster run of the show; Hallick, Bauer, Lynde, McCarthy, Hasselhoff, Houghton...it's more like 40 years of Y&R that are covered. not 50.

I'm sure next week's Hubbard tribute will consistent of social media post quotes on her.

I'm sure it will be exactly what was shared at r158

To be fair, I think Digest, like most soaps, has no one on contract. They have an editor and literally everyone else is being paid as a freelancer

She had great chemistry with that sexy, WASPy hunk Hunt Block, who was the second actor to play Craig Montgomery on ATWT.

She had chemistry with all the Craigs, but SCORCHINGLY hot chemistry with Scotty Bryce.

You soap people are so weird. "Scotty Bryce"? As if you know him personally. He played a character on a fictional series, and not someone who personally entered your home and ate dinner with you. You people are just very odd in how you become emotionally invested in fictional characters, especially with shows geared toward flyover fraus with barely a GED. No offense, of course.

Cunty but funny, R168.

I'm not the person you're addressing, but I will try a response. When people come into your lives every day, 250 times a year, you develop a familiarity with them that doesn't happen in other entertainment forms (primetime TV, Cable TV, and movies).

And if we're being honest, most soap fans don't even know who Scott Bryce is, they know who Craig Montgomery is. Soap actors, often, just become the characters to the fans. It really wasn't until the soap mags started that the audience even thought of their favorite soap characters as anyone but the character.

There has been a somewhat disturbing trend as of late, thanks to social media, where fans can't separate the actor from the character. Especially when a soap actor's politics or personal beliefs don't align with the fans. But there is that familiarity. It's always been there. Irna Philips called her actors by their character names. My Grandma used to tell the story of how my Great Grandma once wrote to Bob Hughes to let him know that Lisa was cheating on him.

I liked the friendship between Liz as the stoik Althea and Carolee Campbell (still here cat 86) as the quirky Carolee. Liz and Jada Rowland's not so quirky Carolee didn't have that chemistry and clashed a bit on the Locher Room episode they were on together. Different memories of the late David O'Brien seemed to be a major issue. Both phenomenal though.

Scotty Bryce. Scotty Bryce. Scotty Bryce. Scotty Bryce. Scotty Bryce. Scotty Bryce. Scotty Bryce. Scotty Bryce. Scotty Bryce. Scotty Bryce. Scotty Bryce. Scotty Bryce. Scotty Bryce. Scotty Bryce. Scotty Bryce. Scotty Bryce. Scotty Bryce. Scotty Bryce. Scotty Bryce. Scotty Bryce. Scotty Bryce. Scotty Bryce. Scotty Bryce. Scotty Bryce. Scotty Bryce. Scotty Bryce. Scotty Bryce. Scotty Bryce. Scotty Bryce. Scotty Bryce. Scotty Bryce. Scotty Bryce. Scotty Bryce. Scotty Bryce. Scotty Bryce. Scotty Bryce. Scotty Bryce. Scotty Bryce. Scotty Bryce. Scotty Bryce. Scotty Bryce. Scotty Bryce.

Okay. R168 should have exploded by now.

contributing editors are probably freelance but SOD still has many staff editors

The hilarious thing about R168, of course, is that it's one of Spicen's many multiple personalities. The Jean Randolph of his personas, if you will. That persona only shows up occasionally to scold soap fans for taking things so seriously (a persona/voice no doubt sharpened over at whatever board it was banned from).

We more often see the mentally ill repetitive posts about snatches being eaten, actresses' toilet habits, and names that are fat. So yeah, R168 is not to be taken seriously, not even for a millisecond.

Isn't Scott Bryce partially responsible for that butch little Pugsley who played Kurt on NBC's live Sound of Music a few years back?

R175 Right show, wrong actor. That was Maura West's son Joe playing Kurt.

[quote] she also often worked hard to get under-five actors (like the young man who played Matthew the butler) to go over their five lines so that they’d be paid more

Ruth Warrick was also known to do that.

You mean Aunt Edie, r177.

She fucked Hunt Block. She did not fuck Van Hansis. She was seductive and good in bed but she was not a miracle worker.

Did she hit the sack with Shawn Christian?

Hunt Block is also gay as a goose, so....um.....

[quote] Hunt Block is also gay as a goose, so....um.....

He always pinged to me, and I've never heard of him being married to a woman. He's 70, and I hadn't seen him in much of anything since Angelina Jolie's Salt when he played the president. I'm curious as to what he looks like now.

This is one of my favorite scenes ever

Luke: I don't need anything

Lucinda: That's the saddest thing in the world

I thought Hunt Block was fucking Cady McLain at some point.

Hunt and Cady dated for some time. I remember photos and mentions of him on her old blog “Stranger than Fiction”.

She and Shawn Christian made out but never "went to bed together."

Liz had the wonder pussy. She wasn’t all dried up down there like many her age were.

"The role of Lucinda Walsh is now being played by Marj Dusay."

Oh how I would've killed to hear that voiceover announcement.

Sorry, but the only 'man' Liz was ever connected was her ex-hubby, the Furrier. Even Lemay mocked his - and her - fur schilling in his book, and hubby seemed a little light in the loafers.

R146 I know from experience that the opposite was true. She did everything to limit screen time for anyone that wasn't her. (especially Matthew the butler.)

[quote]She did everything to limit screen time for anyone that wasn't her.

Odd, then, that frequent scene partners like Martha Byrne and Scott Bryce speak so highly of her.

[quote] I know from experience that the opposite was true. She did everything to limit screen time for anyone that wasn't her. (especially Matthew the butler.)

Anyone who watched the show knows that is completely untrue.

What went so wrong in your life that you so desperately need attention?

Off topic, In the clip at R183 why is Luke calling Holden "Dad"? I had long stopped watching the show. I thought Damian Grimaldi was Luke's Dad? Did they change it? Was Luke sleeping with that kid in the scene and hiding it from Lucinda?

Damian was Luke’s bio-dad, but Luke thought of Holden as his father.

Luke called Holden "Dad" and Damien "my father". Why wouldn't he? Damian was never around.

Getting thru a scene with divas Hubbard and Bryggman must've been brutal for the directors, with both of them trying to one-up the other with how far they can deviate from the script. Pity their poor scene partners too. That's highly unprofessional, if you ask me.

Oh, I don’t think she tried to one-up Larry. Hard to do. Their scenes together were magical.

Liz was probably complicated, and greedy for screen time, as all actors are.

99 percent of what she said on the Locher Room she did with Martha was so smart and sharp. But I was shocked when she said Lucinda had no story. She may not have been Lily Walsh, but Lucinda was so central to the show for so many years. She certainly had more airtime than some of the other actresses in her age range.

Was she referring to the period after Marland’s: stories ended? After that she had the stupid “James and Lucinda had a baby and are getting married!” storyline, then she didn’t really have a storyline until the cancer story years later from what I recall.

R196, they are considered by many to be the two greatest actors ever to grace Daytime, and you'll never take that away from them.

Never heard of her.

yeah, I'm sure that she had a lengthy career on soaps but limiting folks screen time. (Rolls eyes.)

JANE! Get in her!

The adlibs she threw under-fives and day players gave them more tape.

R199 no, she specifically seemed to be talking about Marland's tenure, and said he focused on youth stories....which is just....WTF? No HW since him has ever treated veterans as well as he did. Agnes and AMC was probably the only other show to do well by its vets for as long as it did.

Vicky Wyndham said pretty much the same thing about her last 20 years on AW. When you're used to being the undisputed female lead who drives the lion's share of story -- as Hubbard was on The Doctors and Wyndham was on Lemay's AW -- anything else can seem like "no story."

I can imagine a veteran actor of a certain ago like her being frustrated with what happened in daytime, as they were hellbent on chasing young viewers.

I worked on the show in the early 90s and every summer we had a network mandate to focus on youth. Honestly, those tended to be the weakest characters/stories.

When you’re playing a rich character who is capable of complex storytelling, it must be infuriating to watch them expend some much screen time on young airheads.

Tell us more, more, more, R205!

Actually, I’m having dinner this evening at a restaurant in the country where I occasionally see Don Hastings (and Meryl Streep). If Don is there, I will attempt to encase him in bubble wrap so we don’t lose him, too.

R168 — “…he played a character on a fictional series…”

Oh, dear.

Tell Bob we said hi and send our love, R207! If you see him.

I’ve been on the phone with an old friend of mine. She and I and one other friend (who is recently departed) would watch ATWT (and AMC) together in high school and college, 1984- 1988 or so. We were laughing at some of our favorite unscripted moments from Liz that we still remember, and it made us sad about her and our friend. He was a HUGE Liz fan.

One that she and I say to each other almost every time we see each other, is “(gasp)…KNOCKOUT!!” It was the tail end of a scene where Samantha Markham opened the door to find her long-lost half-sister, Lucinda. It was obvious they were just supposed to stare at each other, and then fade to black..but Liz had to be Liz and throw in that hilarious little ad-lib. It was after college and after we had stopped watching every day, but somehow we all three were together and caught that scene. It’s given us almost 30 years of laughs. Very bittersweet emotions today.

I can’t remember…did Liz and Kathryn Hays have any good scenes together? I can’t remember if there was ever any big conflict between Lucinda and Kim. I’d love to see Kathryn work in a “kiddo” or “toots” amidst Liz’s ad-libbing and swatting at imaginary flies.

There was a scene on You Tube from 1987 or so. Lily has run away after learning her parentage and Sabrina is having problems fitting in with anybody but Frannie’s fiance Seth.

Lucinda had just given Kim a talk show on her TV station, and they shared a nice scene about parenting.

Also, right after Susan slept with Bob, John and Lucinda show up at the Hughes house to discuss Andy. Kim is distracted. After they leave Lucinda turns to John and tells him something is going on in that house and that Kim is behaving weird, and he tells her she is crazy.

I mentioned the 1991 storyline when Walsh is taken from Lucjnda by Connor and Kirk. The episode is now online!

Has Chris Goutman issued a statement yet?

Vinegary Helen Wagner hated what the set became after Liz joined the show! Combine that with loose and drunk Colleen! Scenery chewing, sin, and scandal every way the world turned!

That vinegary Helen Wagner was no fan of Liz’s. That’s for sure.

[quote] they are considered by many to be the two greatest actors ever to grace Daytime, and you'll never take that away from them.

Fuck off.

LH had a way of making her acting partners just shrink before your eyes. Eileen Fulton and Marie Masters were supposed to be Lucinda's rivals at different times, but she just dominated their scenes together. Even Colleen Zenk, who usually stole most scenes she was in , seemed smaller in scenes with Hubbard. The only ones who seemed to hold their own with her were Martha Byrne, Scott Bryce and to a lesser degree Tom Wiggin.

I remember the summer of 2020 when La Hubbard absolutely scandalized Datalounge and the P&G Queens with those comments about Douglas Marland. People were floored by her criticism of Marland as a writer overly interested in youth and the young characters on the canvas..

Someone better check on Lady Wyndham.

R218 Kathy Widdoes gave Liz as good as she got, too.

"The only ones who seemed to hold their own with her were Martha Byrne, Scott Bryce and to a lesser degree Tom Wiggin."

Larry Bryggman didn't "hold his own" with her??? And I would argue that Marie Masters and Kathleen Widdoes did, too.

R219 It took me an entire year to unclutch my pearls!

Did Liz ever get a DUI?

Has anyone checked in on Kathy Widdoes yet?

.....

/run

/spicenbgone

She was right that Marland really focused on the younger characters. Lucinda drove story, but she always seemed more like a plot device than a real character.

Did Liz ever hash to breathesh to shtart her car?

No Don at dinner. Uh-oh.

I don’t agree r228. We got to see Lucinda’s past and pain-her family was torn from her (Sierra taken away; husbands dying; mother taking off and leaving her in favor of Royce and Neal’s father) and it led to her going overboard trying to protect the daughter who she raised, Lily.

I thought her work in particular with Mary Kay Adams was stellar. I wanted them to kill off Royce instead of Neal.

[quote]Someone better check on Lady Wyndham.

You take that back. Don't even speak it into existence.

Rachel?

What about me....DADDY!!!!!

Monticello Edge is here.

There was only one Rachel and her name was Robin Strasser.

I googled Elizabeth Hubbard and Bethel Leslie and ended up with this 1972 New Yorker article - “Afternoon Television: Unhappiness Enough, and Time”

My goodness, but this sounds juicy!

[quote]My happiest moment on any of the soaps I have watched with anything like constancy occurred some years ago, when Andrea Whiting, of “Search for Tomorrow,” cracked up on the witness stand. Her villainy had been relentless, undiscovered, pathological for years. She had broken the engagement of her son, Len Whiting, to Patti Tate. She had refused to divorce her estranged husband, Sam Reynolds, so that he could marry his true love, Joanne Tate, Patti’s mother and the program’s heroine. Andrea Whiting had been responsible, many years before, for the death by fire of Len’s twin. She had blamed the death on her husband, Sam, thereby estranging Sam the father from Len the son. She had tried to kill several people in the intervening years—most recently Sam—but she had contrived to make it look as though Sam had been trying to kill her… Anyway, under questioning by Doug Martin, Andrea cracked up. The truth about the fire death came out, the truth about everything came back, in flashbacks spanning years. Andrea was carried off.

Still no statement from Miss Julia Duffy?

Still no statement from Miss Julia Duffy?

R219, I wouldn't want to put any shade on the dead, especially Liz, but yes, she told me personally about Doug preferring to write for the kids.

Doug himself said in an interview he loved putting Liz Lucinda in the prologue b/c the show would get off to a great start.

I imagine her comments might have been rooted in missing her youth. We all get old. She was nothing short of magnificent on screen...but she was human too. Kids are kids. Lucinda got to sleep with Craig and flirt with him endlessly. How that couldn't make her happy as an actress in her late 40s and 50s is beyond me. But...as I said, she was human.

Julia Duffy hated Liz Hubbard.

Married only for two years? Gay.

R236, that Andrea Whiting summary did sound interesting. I wonder, did NBC pay to have that article written and placed in the New Yorker magazine? The article prominently mentioned Another World, Days of Our Lives, and The Doctors from NBC, and Search for Tomorrow--which was on CBS at the time. I don't think any of the ABC soaps were mentioned, and Guiding Light was mentioned basically as a side note.

Doug HAD to put Lucinda in the prologue, at least during the summer months. Network orders.

Liz fucked three Tom Hughes.

Liz didn’t get fucked by Gregg Marx.

Liz slept with four Tom Hugheses, three Paul Ryans, two Mike Kasnoffs, and an Eldridge in a pear tree.

[quote][R236], that Andrea Whiting summary did sound interesting. I wonder, did NBC pay to have that article written and placed in the New Yorker magazine? The article prominently mentioned Another World, Days of Our Lives, and The Doctors from NBC, and Search for Tomorrow--which was on CBS at the time. I don't think any of the ABC soaps were mentioned, and Guiding Light was mentioned basically as a side note.

In 1972 the NBC daytime lineup was on fire. Days, Doctors, and AW were the hottest soaps and remained pretty hot for a few more years. It is not surprising that the article featured those 3. I want to say that 1972 was the year that ATWT, the top rated soap began to falter. I think they even brought back Irna Phillips who wrote a bunch of old fashioned stories that forced PG to fire her the next year.

ATWT was still #1 but it had dropped a half point, while the NBC lineup was gaining.

[quote]I remember the summer of 2020 when La Hubbard absolutely scandalized Datalounge and the P&G Queens with those comments about Douglas Marland. People were floored by her criticism of Marland as a writer overly interested in youth and the young characters on the canvas..

Doug Marland was a very good soap writer, but Doug Marland was also a human being with flaws. A lot of soap fans have put Marland on pedestal. He got it right more often than not, but there were still times when he didn't (watch his version of The Doctors for proof of this). I think Hubbard gave a fair and valid criticism from her perspective. I think those types of criticisms are important to get the whole picture of person. And the stories that have come out about Marland in the last few years, have made him a far more interesting person.

I am still shocked at how they white-washed Bill Bell's career in his book.

I've said this before here, but while Bill Bell, Pete Lemay, Agnes, even Pam Long had an identifiable sort of style, I don't know that Marland did. Marland's gift was an ability to look at the existing canvas and identify opportunities to stir things up or make it better without tearing the show apart.

I don't think that was always his way, since he was pretty soundly criticized for what happened at The Doctors. (Or was it SFT?) He was able to do more at GH because there was such an open canvas there, and his characters still sort of took over the show at GL, but with at least some inclusion of the veterans. ATWT really was the best of his work - it was next level.

That doesn't mean he was perfect. He had a few favorite stories he used/overused. It took a while for him to get his mojo back after his three female leads left - a lot of the show between late 88 and, oh, the Bob/Kim/Susan story was dire. Some of it was just sad, some of it boring, some of it was moving the pieces around for the next stories, but yeah. Shannon and the Harrington brothers, ugh. (And I loved Shannon. How do you make that character boring?)

The obese twitter fraus still quote Marland’s rules for writing a soap. Why??? Marland himself broke his own rules. He should not be on a pedestal. He hated women while he wrote for a woman’s medium. F him.

I could never really get into ATWT. Marland's writing there always came off an endless recap pretentiously disguised as in-depth character-building moments. He was lucky to have what was probably the most talented ensemble cast ever assembled for a soap, except maybe for 70s AW, that could elevate the often mindless banter. And his writing, like the man himself, was absolutely humorless. I wonder if that was part of his issue with Agnes. She imbued her writing with lots of humor and comedic vignettes, but he never indulged in any of that on any of the shows he wrote for. Everything with him was so serious.

Shhhh Spicen. No one cares. Up your meds, Mary.

Marland destroyed The Doctors and started it on its long path to death with an endless array of HW teams. Whereas the Pollocks' and even DePriest's stints before him were entertaining and full of energy, and concentrated mostly on hospital stories, Marland veered the show off of the hospital setting and shoved the boring Dancys down viewers' throats and stretched out stories way past their sell-by date. The show lost all vitality and started to seem old and stodgy,

I think his best writing was at GL. It was such an intelligently written show under his pen, and still holds up really well. I know people love Pam Long and her homey and sentimental writing, and the show was mostly entertaining under her, but honestly, the show dropped several IQ points between his stint and hers. It's pretty evident when you sample episodes from both regimes on YT.

Anyway......

Oh no!!! Finn Carter hasn’t issued a statement yet! What’s taking so long??

Finn who? Kayla Brady was the definitive Sierra.

She was excellent in an episode of Law & Order in the early 90s, proof that she was capable of doing impressive work minus the messy acting and hamminess she displayed as Lucinda.

Doug had a gift for populating an expansive universe (30+ contract players and a large number of significant recurring characters) conducive to years of character-driven conflict.

He did some great murder mysteries (Diane Ballard on GL was riveting).

He created so many distinctive characters over the years (Luke and Laura among them, right?).

So many head writers farm out as much as they can. Doug was spinning every episode himself (the other breakdown writers contributed ideas at the margins). It was mesmerizing to watch him work. He knew exactly where every story and scene was going and he dictated the dialogue (for script writers to elevate a bit, but again, it was mostly his voice).

Liz fucked the hottest Mike Kasnoff, also the last one: Jon Prescott. She didn't fuck the others because she had her hands full with straight men for the most part during their tenures.

Marland's Vanessa Chamberlain was totally different from what Kobe and Long did to her. They brought on Reva, Alex, India so they probably should risked fan wrath, and gotten rid of Vanessa, rather than turn her into The Lewis House Mother.

Pam definitely engaged in character assassination with Vanessa. At least during her first tenure.

Turned that vivacious character who was naked underneath her fur coat into a pill popping suburban mom who ran over Reva in the snow while high on pills!?!?!?

Starting at the 6:30 mark is a great scene between Neal and Lucinda.

Marland did a great job at ATWT. When he came on board, he saw which characters weren't working and slowly eased them out. When he started, the show was basically the "Steve and Betsy Show". He de-emphasized the duo, making them just part of an ensemble. But I really liked how he built the Snyders, one by one without cramming them down the viewers throats. We heard about Caleb and Ellie for years, before they actually made an appearance, so it seemed natural when they arrived. But while he created his new family, he put the emphasis back on the Hughes, even bringing back Nancy and Chris. And he changed Barbara from perpetual victim to homewrecking vixen.

Elizabeth Hubbard was one of the best actors in daytime for over 40 years. She was good on The Doctors but Lucinda was my favorite. During the 80's and 90's , I would fast forward through a lot of scenes but always stopped for a Lucinda scene. She always said to the good people of Oakdale what a lot of us wanted to say. Especially to Lisa Grimaldi .

I wonder which ATWT diva would be considered a DL icon: Lucinda, Carly or Barbara?

I thought of Lucinda as Joan Crawford and Carly as just Lisa 2.0. Barbara is one of those characters that writers just seemed to rediscover every few years. Hogan Sheffer had a field day with her and the actress seemed to really enjoy going along for the ride.

Thank you, R263.

Hubbard is mesmerizing in that scene with Neal. I’d also forgotten how good Liz and Mary Kay Adams were together. Neal was so different than India (who was more like Lucinda) - MKA is amazing.

Talented ladies, nice memories.

Maeve said at the time that it was difficult to watch Bev and Zimmer because Alex and Reva were what Vanessa used to be before they declawed her. The irony is that Maeve was best of the three.

That clip at r263…I had forgotten about Bianca! Or, as Liz ad-libbed once, “My little daughter from across the sea…”

I was not watching as much during this time, but did Bianca ever really have a storyline? How did they get rid of her? Did Lucinda ever mention her after she was gone?

Bianca oddly never had a storyline. She was Courtney’s best friend and hung out with her. They wrote her off by saying she went to work for the UN in 1994 or so.

Speaking of storylines, this reminds me that after Hubbard had done some humanitarian work with female refugees over in Bosnia, she came home and told a NYT interviewer that she hoped ATWT might incorporate a refugee storyline into the soap, and that she pitched the idea to TPTB with a treatment she'd written up, but that they turned her down.

R242, clearly it was NBC Soaps New Yorker in Depth!

Pam was much kinder to Vanessa during her second go-around.

Vanessa was OVER Alan fawning over Reva; Reva demanded Alan do something about Mirror reporter Dick Sexton slamming Rusty in a story.

Vanessa asked what Reva expected Alan to do and pointed out that not everyone was as partisan as she was in this situation. Reva's reaction was clear -- I'm pissed at you Vanessa and yes, you used a word I don't understand.

Mary Mary Kay Adams commented yet?

Has Vee, who’s in the biz, arranged Liz’ services yet?

Still waiting for Julia Duffy's statement. Does she even ever discuss her time on "The Doctors"? Is she embarrassed by her soap past? Her husband has embraced his soap past and appears at "Dark Shadows" conventions. Why hasn't dear Julia done the same?

Mary Kay commented. You didn’t hear because it was in sign language. (For those who missed, she transitioned into teaching ASL.)

I follow Dutch media and there’s been nothing on Hubbard’s death which is sad because ATWT was a big deal over there and Hubbard appeared for a month or so on one of their local soaps Goede Tijden, Slechte Tijden. And she was in a relationshio for a while with one of her Dutch fans.

Dykey Mary Ksy transitioned? Good for him!

R279 Netherlands news source "nu.nl" had a feature on her death five days ago.

The story was also run by the daily newspaper, AD, Algemeen Dagblad (General Journal), ad.nl.

How do you say croaked off in dutch?

Ook De Telegraaf schreef op 10 april een nieuwsartikel.

[quote]R277 Still waiting for Julia Duffy's statement.

From Seller’s Comments:

[italic]”This is an original press photo. Among the veterans of the ward wars on NBC's "The Doctors" are Elizabeth Hubbard (shown at left with a grimmer Julia Duffy)”

Why should Julia Duffy comment about someone she worked with 50 years ago? She probably doesn’t even remember Liz. In a pearl clutching moment a few weeks ago, Kyra sedgewick was on Kelly & Ryan and they showed an old AW clip with Kyra and Irene Daily. Kyra said that she couldn’t remember the actress’ name (Irene) who was in the scene. It’s too long ago. Julia Duffy doesn’t owe anyone a statement. Neither does Finn Carter.

Even Alec Baldwin made a statement, and he worked with her on The Doctors over 40 years ago, where their paths barely crossed. If Alec can make a statement, then certainly Julia should too. I'm sure she'll say something when Bob Newhart passes, and they worked together 35-40 years ago. Why would Bob merit a comment from her, but not dear Liz? Something is fishy.

R285 Finn Carter feels the same way I do.

In Kyra's defense, she probably spent most of the time fending off Irene's predatory advances, so she likely blocked her out of her memory.

Gee, maybe Liz was a cunt to Julia and Julia is too busy celebrating her death to make a statement.

Has Jean Le Clerc issued a statement? Liz raved about working with him in the final days of "THE Doctors".

I'm going to kind of agree with R285.

First of all, I don't think it is some requirement to make a statement about someone's death, and sometimes no statement is statement enough. And, quite frankly, do you remember everyone that you've ever worked with?

I saw some interview that Jackee gave about her time on Another World. She commented that Connie Ford yelled at her for being in her sight line or something, but she could not remember Connie's name. She referred to her as the actress from A Summer Place.

I know it's a capital offense not to know who Connie Ford is on here, but in the real world not everyone knows or remembers everyone they've ever worked with, especially actors.

Did Larry Bryggman and Liz get along?

Vinegary Helen Wagner detested Liz as well as all the Snyders. She thought they made ATWT unrecognizable. She would've liked Colleen better if only she hadn't been a homewrecking little tramp.

R269 Given this, I wonder what Maeve thought of the Rauch years, where Vanessa was reduced to a sighing sap who just had to stand there and take Dinah's abuse. Maybe she needed the paycheck at that point?

Maeve sold out for a quick and easy paycheck quite early in her career. Daytime soap operas! Can you imagine the horror?!?!

Helen Wagner gets pissed at Liz Hubbard and Mimi Torchin.

Mimi-“Lucinda has been in search of a storyline for awhile…”

Helen-“HAVEN’T WE ALL?”

Also Liz looks like she wants to eat Brad Snyder #1 alive.

Digest interviewed her about all that; she'd taken some time off around the time of Rauch's return to, I think, get a new hip.

I don't think Maeve ever got caught up in all that drama. She came in did the work and slowed down a bit as she got older.

I adored the relationship between Henry and Vanessa; it was easy to see the two actors were pals in real life. Henry and Vanessa, for some reason, showed me there was a better life out there. I don't know why. They were two of Doug Marland's best creations.

Hubbard fucked Brad 1 and 2 (Nick Kokotakis and Roy Eudon) and the scrumptious Brad 4 Austin Peck right before he got together with his married co-star. They proceeded to blow up each other’s lives.

What is Katie Peretti doing now? Real estate?

I remember Brad #1. Hot hot hot. That was a fun clip @ R296, Liz seems to be having a great time and really promoting the show, but what in the hell was wrong with Helen Wagner. Did her contract force her to be there or something? For whatever reason, she did not seemed to be amused.

Wagner was always vinegary and unhappy.

Maeve K leaving during Paul Rauch's GL run was the fuel of many rumors from the rumor mill....

...in part because it had long been rumored that Paul sexually harassed Maeve during her AW run.

And her GL departure was not long after Paul came on. I seem to recall she no longer wanted to dye her hair black, as well, and Paul refused to let her appear with gray hair.

Brad #1 at ATWT was hotness personified.

In that clip with ME ME Torchin, vinegary Helen already knew that Liz was spreading her legs for Brad #1. Thus the cold vinegaryness.

[quote] What is Katie Peretti doing now? Real estate?

Terri Conn is still an on-air host for QVC. She was hawking summer dresses yesterday.

If Elizabeth Hubbard was fucking Brad #1 then all hail the queen.

[quote] What is Katie Peretti doing now?

Cheating on her husband for Jesus?

Irl Katie Peretti was so morally repugnant in 2009-10 that if someone wanted to make the argument that she should still be in prison for her behavior back then, I’m not saying that if would agree, but I would hear them out.

I need Nick Kokotakis in me quite deeply

For a period of time, Maeve died her blonde(!) to p.o. Rauch. I think it was when he was enamored of Beth Chamberlain and kept dressing all his actresses in orange. What a weird m-fer. I think the 2 drunks - Brown and Essenstein - were writing the show, and Beth was pointing out to Vanessa she was too old for Matt. It was very Rauch.

She DYED, not died, her hair. And no, Maeve Kinkead never went blonde. But she was covering her gray with her dark brown/black coloring for years.

How many husbands did Katie have by the end of the show? If ATWT had gone on, she would've put Lisa to shame. I wonder who most fans consider her "soul mate", Brad or Simon?

Katie's snatch ate the show.

Well, most of it, and Carly and "Juicy Janet" ate what was left.

Remember when Nancy Hughes died, and they made the show about Katie's "grieving"? Not her son Bob, but the Fluffster herself, Katie.

FUCK U R319 she did go blonde for a very brief snippet on GL after Dinah left. Vanessa was marginalized because who could she talk to who didn't love Cassie and Reva, and hate Dinah. Don't get started on the Wendy Moniz was a home wrecking evil troll bit, either. You'd have to bring up Beth Ehlers then. The heavy handiness of the awful sister duo of Reva and Cassie, and Harley was ruining the show and driving viewers away.

All of the Mike Kasnoffs were so hot. But the last one was like 25 years younger than the first one.

R315 yeah, I never noticed it but yes Shawn Christian is about 15 years older than Jon Prescott.

Jon Prescott may have been hot, but he was the worst casting decision ATWT ever made. And from a show that had Susan Batten replace Allyson Rice Taylor and the horrible Roger Howarth replace Scott Holroyd, that's saying something.

Some timeline things since after years (decades) it all blurs together and assumptions and errors start getting repeated as facts:

Maeve began a leave of absence from GL in August 1996 during the Laibson/McTavish horror show, supposedly to get herself out of the shit fest Wendy Moniz was flinging backstage. During her LOA that executive team was fired and replaced with the unholy triumvirate of Rauch/Esensten/Brown. He came in during her absence, she didn't leave because he was there. But, It WAS feared that Maeve would not return to the show with Rauch in charge, due to their history, but he swore he had changed and both parties thought the ugliness of years prior to be water under the bridge.

So, she returned to the show in May 1997 and got about 6 months of (not-great) story before she and Kurt McKinney (he played Matt) were sidelined for the emerging all Reva all the time hour, which began in September 1997, first with stripper Cassie's arrival followed by the clone that spring 1998. Maeve got minimal airtime doing and saying stupid shit, mainly in the way of taking constant abuse from Dinah about her miserable childhood.

When the Vanessa/Matt/Beth triangle played there were daily 'you're a hag get a facelift' comments from other characters, including talking to a plastic surgeon about fixing her sagging face, meanwhile Kim Zimmer looked like she'd spent the winter moonlighting as a sandbag and got lines about how Reva struck men down with her beauty. As a viewer, it was hard to feel like this stuff wasn't the result of some personal backstage crap.

It was for the second (third?) Josh/Reva wedding in 1999 that Vanessa showed up to the ceremony with blonde hair. As someone said it was during the Rauch blonde fetish years where everyone had platinum hair, wore neon-colored airline hostess suits, and had their tits out on display. Maeve herself has said she campaigned heavily during this time to go gray, but the producer (Rauch) wouldn't let her, until she finally wore him down.

She only got her way when she went off-contract and was coming in to film on recurring status. The story at the time was Vanessa's slow death from lip balm, where the character of Vanessa goes into a coma and lies in bed for 5 months. When Vanessa wakes up and realizes she'd shot Ben Warren, an all-gray Vanessa ends up confronting Carmen.

Maeve ultimately left the show a few months later in July 2000, when she walked off the set with no notice (none was required - she was recurring) after filming the Bauer BBQ.

Why couldn't Maeve ever persuade Meryl to do a guest appearance? That really would've helped their falling ratings. She'd have been perfect as Hope.

I’m sure Meryl tried to get one of her goon daughters on the soaps once she saw how their faces were turning out, but even the soaps have limits. Keep in mind that Passions gave Lucci’s troll spawn a job for years.

A Martinez said he asked her to do a guest appearance on Santa Barbara after they did She-Devil together. She told him no, saying she only does characters that have a full arc with a beginning, middle, and end. Translation: if you think I'm going to fucking slum it on some dumb soap, you should be tied up in a strait jacket.

Did Greg Beecroft issue a statement yet? Surely he dicked up Liz.

Yes, she fucked Gregory Beecroft.

Well where’s Greg’s statement about her passing?

She nearly destroyed his marriage. There were rules afterwards. He’ll never mention her.

I'm going on a hunger strike until Julia Duffy issues a statement.

Interesting about Maeve and even more interesting how producers can kill a show. Rauch's stories were legendary.

To me, the man wasn't all that. He was a character who knew how to turn up the lights brighter than his predecessor and he only did well when he had a great writer (Lemay).

We were lucky enough to have the Marland years 80 - 82 and Long years 83-86; 87-early 91 and some good years -- Reilly/Demorest/Curlee and Hurst at the end to take the show out as well as possible.

GL had Nola back to kiss Company goodbye and Holly and Fletcher and Danny and Michelle and Dylan...but ATWt couldn't give Lisa a happy ending or invite Penny back OR tape Helen Wagner saying goodnight dear as soon as they knew the show was axed. Sigh...

I have vague memories of the Dobson era on GL; that was great too.

But San Cristobel, the Santos clan, Reva clone, changing writers...they all killed Gl.

Make your own fucking GL thread, you hijacking assholes. This is about our newly departed Liz, and barely more than two of you are interested.

I’m interested in who has and has not issued statements about our dear Liz. Have Viki Sleestack and Dorian Strassman issued statements yet? They worked with La Liz on OLTL. Surely they have a comment to make.

R328 That isn't nice.

Don't gaslight me by being the tone police for calling out other people not being nice, r328.

MATTHEW? See this gentleman out.

Did Lucinda fuck Kirk? Did Liz fuck Tom Wiggin? He has big dick face.

Did Liz fuck around with Larry Lau?

Tom Wiggin does have a big one

Let's get some Liz clips going on.

Go to 1:47; Lucinda clears the room so she can have Craig all to herself.

She says Iva has the 'unmistakable aura of Las Vegas.'

[quote]Yes, she fucked Gregory Beecroft.

Are you serious? What a queen.

That's my favorite Lucinda scene of all, R335. "We always have a moment for Mr. Mont-GOM-ery... I'd LOVE you to use my phone." Scorching hot chem between Liz and Scott.

the litany of guys she allegedly slept with is a troll’s fever dream.

R337, it's one of mine, too.

Liz and Scott were FIRE.

Scotty was SO hot.

Her last post on FB was on March 31.

The obese soap twitter queens are holding a twitter funeral for Liz. How do they have memories of her from when they were 2? Weirdos.

NOBODY SHOULD GIVE A SHIT!

R343 is Helen Wagner.

That FAT fucker CaseySHutch is one god damned MESS! Holding a twitter funeral???? Get a life, fat slob! lololol

Knowing that vinegary old cunt, it probably is R343.

Tonight at 6:30 Central Time, @cbsatwt is hosting a tribute to Elizabeth Hubbard on their Twitter page.

That Twitter page is apparently one of the many places that DL's resident loon loses its shit over......

Did anyone actually like Liz? Hardly nobody from ATWT commented. Also did she like anyone who didn't kiss her ass like Martha Burns?

Fat fuck CaseySHutch fat moonface obese twitter queen runs the ATWT page. He’s a fat slob.

I think that Julia Duffy will make a special appearance at the twitter funeral. I’ll be tuning in to see that.

Does that mean Julia will FINALLY issue a statement? Her Susan Dey routine was getting tiresome.

Anyway, as I was saying to SCOTTY Bryce the other day......

[quote]Hardly nobody from ATWT commented.

Oh, dear.

Scott DeFreitas didn't even comment when Kathy Hays died.

R111, wow, thank you for your Blithe Spirit story. I was friends with Angela Thornton from around 1986 to her sudden death about six or seven years ago. I even rented a room in her gorgeous West End Avenue apartment for a few months.

Of course I knew that she and Elizabeth Hubbard were good friends but eiither I never asked Angela how they met or I’d forgotten. In the old 1970s episodes of The Doctors on Retro I diid see Angela in a recurring role as a British temptress. She was beautiful and extremely witty. Her son Adam Storke was the male lead in Mystic Pizza opposite Julia Roberts. I do remember that her friend Liz was always having “problems” with her son but he was all she had and she was devoted to him. Anyway, thanks again.

Liz fucked Billy Magnussen and Agim Kaba.

Liz’s son has big issues. Hopefully she found a caretaker for him before she passed.

Elizabeth Hubbard worked quite a bit in the legitimate theater, but she was in a lot of flops.

Liz would laugh and laugh and laugh if she knew the obese soap twitter queens held a twitter funeral for her! A few months ago the rival soap podcast queens called them tries too hard! Like were you even alive when ATWT was on the air?!? LOLOLOL

The obese twitter queens, especially fat moon face Casey are losers who think that they are stars because they have a podcast. Podcasts are a dime a dozen. Someone should tell them they aren’t special. Dumbasses.

I thought the Twitter thing was a little bit much and disingenuous, but I have no problem with people celebrating a legend, and she was a legend.

Did SCOTTY Bryce participate? Or MIKEY Park? Or JOHNNY Hensley?

Julia Duffy, dammit!! Maybe it's a case of not speaking ill of the dead.

If I heard correctly, Julia Duffy did NOT participate in FAT moon gonna explode soon face Casey’s funeral for Liz Hubbard. Why?

Instead, desperate for attention Martha Byrne (what has she done lately????) was there. Fat exploding moonface Casey was all up in the ass of Martha. Disgusting.

Byrne posted a still from her Newsmax interview on her FB page last night. See for yourself.

Helen had resting side-eye when she interacted with Liz.

The woman is dead, so I won't make fun of her but was Helen Wagner known to be kind of cunty? That clip was quite telling.

Helen and Martha Byrne do satellite interviews to local CBS affiliates in 1995. The body language is telling.

Is Martha a right-winger?

Here she is hanging out with a member of Trump’s Cabinet last month

This is only being followed by big fat old zeros

Beef curtains

Martha is/was married to a cop, so she is a likely Trump luver. Helen is wonderfully cunty. Imagine a Helen/Mary Stuart interview, with the 2 of them trying to outcunt the other.

Helen wasn't so much of a cunt as she was just rigid. She had no time for people like Liz, who couldn't be bothered to stay on script, or Colleen's trampy ways. No one could outcunt Mary "Stewart". NO ONE! The rest were all amateurs.

Yeah, Mary was a whole other level cunt, but I'm starting to wonder about ole Helen. I just watched the Emmylegends Interview with her. My God, it was a masterclass in cunt.

Martha briefly fancied herself a singer (country, I think?) and was going to tour, sponsored by…a cigarette brand. Marlboro, I believe. She got yanked out of that quickly. Hilarious stuff. I always thought she was ugly so I enjoy that she’s a cunt.

How right wing/conservative can she be, since she wholeheartedly embraced the whole Luke coming out story? A strict right winger wouldn't do that.

Wonder what CZP thinks about Martha's politics.

Don't know what her politics are, but my guess is out of any branch of the entertainment industry, soap stars are probably the most MAGA. Nothing surprises me. Soap stars have always been more conservative and more Jesusy than others.

Wrong, r380. Soaps were a gay industry in NYC and even the LA ones are extremely liberal. Reality stars are the most conservative, followed by movie stars (because they have so much money).

Not true at all R381. Movies stars with money are the most liberal. Soap stars, make the least money and therefore are much more conservative and republican. There have been way too many examples over the years to say other wise. And there are way too many examples of current soap stars liking conservative tweets to say otherwise.

R374 Mary Martha's husband was an NYPD cop, then in 2003, he "retired from the 43rd Precinct in The Bronx with a three-quarters, tax-free pension based on an unknown line-of-duty disability."

At some point, he went into private investigative work, but in 2020, he got himself into massive trouble and was actually arrested. I never researched what happened in this case. The original story made the NY Post.

That makes sense r383, Martha keeps vague tweeting about the Department of Justice and the FBI railroading innocent defendants

Thing is, Byrne's husband was arrested and later inddicted when Trump's appointee, John Demers, was in office. Demers was the Trump Admin's Assistant Attorney General in charge of the DOJ's China Initiative to counter Chinese espionage and intelligence activities in the U.S. .. Demers is the one who crowed about the Trump DOJ's success to stamp out China's "Operation Fox Hunt." And the indictments that were subsequently prepared were all done under his watch, since he stayed in the job until June 2021 with them presented to the court in July.

=======

[quote] How right wing/conservative can she be, since she wholeheartedly embraced the whole Luke coming out story? A strict right winger wouldn't do that.

R378 Maybe Byrne is okay with Log Cabin Republicans. That would be the type of gay guy like Ric Grenell, whom she's seen in the photo with at R371.

Anyone skilled at looking up what happened with Martha’s hubby’s case?

What a moron she is.

Just in case anybody cares, I'm on day 3 of my hunger strike until Julia Duffy issues a statement. I've lost 5 pounds.

R386 The husband was subsequently indicted in July 2021. Updates to the case in 2022 did not mention that charges were dropped. (I believe the case may still be ongoing. Some information is apparently sealed due to the nature of the case.)

His attorney claims he was unaware of who the real client was. This sounds somewhat believable, yet the article below from ProPublica points out, "Prosecutors would later dispute the idea that McMahon was an innocent pawn." I believe elsewhere it says they found internet searches on another similar Chinese government operation. Something like that.

Pretty good overview of the whole thing.

btw - His disability from the police force in 2003 stems from ailments related to his work as 9/11 Ground Zero responder.

Martha should STFU!

R388, you’re the best.

A decade or so ago, Martha launched an enterprise designed to prep aspiring young actors in NJ to work in TV. Unsaid was that the only TV she knows is working in a genre that is disappearing.

I believe she enlisted Lisa Brown to help.

It had the whiff of something that makes me feel sad. You know, actress who can’t find work but is going to show others the secrets to finding work.

A friend of a friend had a kid wanting to act and he may have done an intro session or something. They wanted my opinion on whether he should pursue it.

I said Lisa would be great if the kid could learn acting from her. But otherwise, Martha (and Lisa) has no idea how to penetrate the main industry or else she’d have done it. She got a job as a teen that gave her employment for decades and nothing really beyond that.

And it had a nice price tag. They ended up passing on it. I don’t think the venture lasted that long.

It made me sad. Must be tough to be the belle of the ball for years and years and… suddenly the lights go out.

What did Liz and Lisa Brown think of each other, their scenes were great

Martha discussing her husband’s situation.

Link

Ugh, that killed any respect I had for Martha.

I knew her husband was NYPD but didn't realize she'd gone SO far right. Fuck her.

Martha Byrne is DEAD to ME!

[quote]The husband was subsequently indicted in July 2021

You mean he was indicated?

Byrne acts like they don't even know what her husband is charged with. Maybe should just read the case text to find out. It's all there.

Last year he tried to get the charges dropped. The cast text at the link explains what the government says he did and his arguments to try to get the case against him dismissed.

SPOILER ALERT: Michael McMahon's motion to dismiss was denied in its entirety.

Liz must've been despised by her co-stars, judging from the loud silence by most of them. I hate to say it, but she was despicable on Locher's The Doctors reunion, arrogantly labeling Nancy Stafford as "some shoe model" and arguing with Jada Rowland about the extent of David O'Brien's acceptance of his homosexuality.

Viva Noelle Beck!

Viva Heather Rattray!

Booooooo on Fat Lily!

R391. those schools and programs are always hit and miss.

If you take it and nothing ever happens, it's a big miss; if you take it and then you end up finding work in show business, well, it's a hit.

Most people in show business find work through luck and long years of preparation.

No one class is going to find you work; you're going to learn from people in the trenches what their journey has been.

That's a great line about being the belle of the ball and then, the lights go out. I marvel at someone like Melody Thomas Scott who has played Nikki for over 40 years and half that time was under Bill Bell and everything was great -- lots of work. Melody inherited the prime dressing room that was Jaime Lyn Baur's after she left the show in 1982 (Cher had it built when she did her show) and has had it since.

Then you look at people who've come and go on other shows, gone and never come back to any show.

I imagine a career in show business is long and hard with no guarantees of rewards but educating yourself as much as you can -- if you can afford it -- is a good thing.

I meant to add the OTHER half of Mel's time at Y&R has been battling or surviving writers and producers who haven't a clue who Nikki is.

The MS they gave Nikki has all but been forgotten; she hasn't had real story in years. LML had her run for state senate. WTF?

But...she has survived.

Darlings!

This thread is about MOI!

LOL when Noelle Beck took over as Lily, I remember thinking what an attractive couple she'd make with Jon Hensley. Finally, Holden's interest in Lily didn't have a hooking up with rich girl vibe.

I wanted them to bring Don Hughes back as Lucinda’s love interest, and force her to interact with the mother in law from hell, Nancy Hughes. I like the idea of Lucinda being forced to peel potatoes in a designer suit and apron for Thanksgiving while Lisa and Barbara laugh at her.

I had to get used to my Lily being more attractive than my Damian.

[quote]I meant to add the OTHER half of Mel's time at Y&R has been battling or surviving writers and producers who haven't a clue who Nikki is.

I know this is about MTS, but I can't let this one slide. MTS made that set hell while her husband was running things. She got knocked down more than a few pegs when he left. And it wasn't a graceful fall.

What other daytime roles would have a good fit for Liz?

Iris Carrington? Stephanie Forrester? Alex Spaulding? Dorian Lord?

[quote]I know this is about MTS, but I can't let this one slide.

Then take it to the Y&R thread, dumbass.

R407 of the ones you mentioned, probably Stephanie Forrester would have been a good fit. Perhaps Dorian too.

Iris and Alexandra were perfect fits for Beverlee, Her characters had rough edges and both had the capacity to be a bitch, but Beverlee was also very good at showing an essential sadness/loss for both characters. Iris always felt like she had lost her "daddy" and Alexandra had lost her son/sons. I don't know that Liz could have portrayed that sense of hollowness and loss as well.

She would have also been great on Santa Barbara, as Augusta or perhaps Sophia.

She’d have made an amazing Alexandra Spaulding.

Or Kay Chancellor.

Of the remaining elder ATWT cast - with Kathy Hays and Liz gone:

Eileen Fulton (89, turns 90 in September) Don Hastings (turned 89 on April 1) Pat Bruder (turned 87 last week) Larry Bryggman (84) Kathleen Widdoes (84) Marie Masters (82)

Rosemary Prinz is 92 (!!)

Most of the front burner folks from the Marland era are in their sixties now. Some early seventies. Michael Swan is 75 (!) and Colleen just turned 70. Most of the others are in their late sixties. Jon Hensley is 57. Cuntarina von Magatstein (aka Martha) is mid fifties.

Now that he's going on 42, Van Hansis is in his 80s in gay years.

[quote]She had McCouch, Hensley, Hastings, and the dude who played the cop who died by suicide IRL. Also the Jewish kid who played Noah’s boyfriend.

Wait, did La Liz actually have all of these co-stars, or are you guys just trolling. She had Jon Hensley in his prime? Wow. And Ben Hendrickson too - ? I'm impressed.

[quote] or are you guys just trolling.

Obviously.

Ben Hendrickson would go anywhere near Liz’s musty old twat. He liked the cock. Maybe he broke Van in.

Hubbard's main scene partners were Bryce, Byrne, Brown, Wiggin, maybe Hensley , Bryggmann and Boynton, I noticed they rarely had Lucinda/Carly scenes. It could have been because their storylines rarely overlapped, but it was probably because there wasn't enough scenery for the two of them to chew.

And of these main scene partners have acknowledged her passing...even Hensley re-tweeted the video tribute. Except of course, Bryggman who isn't on social media and Brown RIP...so everyone and then some (Mary Beth) have paid tribute to Liz.

I never think of Mary Beth as Sierra. She came and went so often, her character could never get a good storyline going. Just like Noelle Beck was never Lily.

Has Donald Sutherland or Timothy Hutton issued a statement?

I liked Mary Beth as Sierra. I thought to be honest she was better than the one note Finn Carter. But agree she was seldom there long enough.

She was far more Sierra to me than either of the non-Byrne Lilys, who for all intents reinvented the character. (Of course ATWT did that a lot in its final years - slap a name on another actor who acted nothing like the character. Here's Paul Ryan! No, really it is. Here's Dusty Donovan! Even if he acts like Sonny Corinthos, it's Dusty!)

Why hasn’t Larry Bryggman issued a statement to Stephanie Sloane of SOD? Very odd indeed.

So a person's life gets boiled down to who does and doesn't make a statement about their death?

R422 = Susan Dey

Where is Don Hastings’ statement?

I can't imaging tallying a list of who posted on social media about a costar's death and who did not.

That's what passes for a hobby these days, R425.

Vee, who’s in the biz, keeps track of such things. Vee has to because he’s in the biz you know.

Has our dear Anna Stuart commented? She has said that Liz mastered the art of reading off the teleprompter.

There are still some people who find it tacky to make public statements about such personal matters. A personal note, if warranted, to the family is all that is needed. Maybe she will be in final position during the Daytime Emmys In Memorandum segment, which is really all the honor anyone one needs.

R425 Some soap fans are, uh, unusual in their pursuits and obsessions.

Like our Loon.

To lose Lisa Brown, Kathy Hays and now Liz in such quick succession is truly the end of an era.

Eileen knows that she’s next. She’s probably shitting her diapers.

Honestly, I still can't believe Lisa is gone. It seems unreal.

I'm still here, bitches.

Anyway....

Has Scotty Bryce commented?

Anyway....

Have any of the actors who played Matthew released statements yet?

Any statements from from Rosie Prinz, Patsy Bruder, Kathy Widdoes, Mikey Swan, or Babs Rodell?

Has Felicia Minei Behr been reached for comment?

When was the funeral? It's probably too late to issue statements now. And Barbara Rodell??? That's digging deep.

What about Chris Goutman’s statement? Afterall, he brought Liz back after that bitch Felicia Behr forced her out.

Anyway....

I watched this last night-what a terrible time for the show.

I kept thinking this scene would have been so much better with Melanie Smith and Hillary Bailey Smith.

Kelley Menighan’s Emily was really whiny.

The whole Lucinda/James thing was just.....I mean, I can almost understand the retcon of giving them a shared child IF that character had stuck around for longer than 3 seconds.

But the idea that Lucinda would marry James just insulted her intelligence. Yes, John Dixon was no saint. But he was not the deeply amoral villain James Stenbeck was.

1993 was 30 years ago.....and pretty much the year both ATWT and GL slowly started to crumble. Hard to believe that was SO long ago.

R436 Yes. Mr Bryce has commented.

Kelley Menighan was to Emily Stewart what John Bolger was to Phillip Spaulding.

What's the story on Hubbard's son, Jeremy?

I liked John Bolger and for that matter, I sorta liked Kelley Menighan too. Melanie Smith never made me as soaking wet as some of you queens. I didn't especially like how neurotic Emily got in later years but few remained unscathed in those later years of ATWT.

Bolger and I suppose Menighan would have been fine in other roles.

Pretty much the only time I could stomach Lily was when Heather Rattray and Nicole Beck played the character, even though I wasn’t watching as much when either of them were on. I guess I liked Byrne well enough her first couple of years, but she really started annoying me and was such a frau.

But I get it about ATWT’s bad track record with recasts. One of the worst cases was when Julianne Moore left the roles of Frankie and Sabrina—who looked so much alike that Seth couldn’t tell who he was fucking—and replaced both roles with actresses who had no resemblance whatsoever. It was nice seeing Claire Beckman land another soap gig after AMC, albeit a relatively brief one. She wasn’t bad as Sabrina, and was a least more “Julianne-ish” than the blond Frannie.

Digest ran its article about her passing and as expected, it's lifted entirely from social media comments.

During the Marland era of ATWT- which actors were the most troublesome? Who was loved and who was loathed?

ATWT seemed to be a less harmonious set than, say, All My Children.

I worked on ATWT for a spell during the Marland years. Wasn’t aware of any acrimony.

There were some folks who kept to themselves or perhaps avoided those they didn’t like, but the show didn’t tolerate nonsense. You come and behave like a professional or you’re off the show.

I think any set is what you make it. I know actors who love DAYS and say it's the best ever; others run from the show faster than you can spell New Salem backwards.

The big problem is when you start believing all that 'our show is a family' or 'is family-like'.

Come in, do your work, pose for a cake photo if it's on a day that you're working, and then go home and have a life.

R452 This is why some of the old-timers haven't commented. They still think that some (defunct) soap opera magazine is going to contact their (now-retired) agent (on his landline) for a (written) comment to be sent (faxed) to them ASAP for inclusion in the special, five-page (print) article that's being prepared for publication in the next issue.

R456, but if the goal is to provide info to your readers, then reporters need to get on the phone and do their jobs.

One of the sites -- I forget which one -- got Lisa Brown to comment on Michael Tylo. Not too long after, she was gone to.

I think SOD ran a social media quote from Kate Linder re: Tylo. If Esther and Blade ever shared a scene I must have missed it.

The fact that Digest is still in business shocks me. I'm surprised it hasn't gone exclusively online.

[quote]ATWT seemed to be a less harmonious set than, say, All My Children.

I always heard that the AMC set was messy at varying times, but didn't two actresses come to blows or almost to blows over some kind of a backstage affair over on ATWT?

ATWT was a pretty calm set.

R458 yes, Hillary B. Smith (then Margo) and Colleen Zenk (Barbara) apparently came to blows - this would have been around the time of their characters' big fight, when Tom slept with Barbara. HBS had something to say about Colleen and Mark Pinter getting together and the slapfest happened.

HBS and Catherine Hickland were shitstirrers at OLTL too.

I really want to hear stories of Helen Wagner’s cuntery.

Maybe something about her grabbing the arm of some young actress and lecturing her on dressing like a prostitute.

I know nothing about Helen Wagner other than she never looks happy when she's being interviewed in the clips I've seen and she was kind of salty in the EmmyLegends interview. But I thought for sure I read something on here or another soap board where she was kind of the moral majority on that set. Who knows? Hope she's resting in peace.

I always heard AMC was a pretty calm set. Lots of actors who went appeared on other soaps have mentioned how much they loved it there. Of course, no set can ever be without backstage troubles…there was definitely something going on between Lucci/SMG and Kate Collins and that pig Kiberd. Anyhoo, sorry, back to ATWT, darlings!

Oops, sorry the typos.

here's the episode where Margo slaps Barbara.

It sure looks and sounds like a real slap.

Babs wanted Margo not to tell Bob, Kim, and Lisa about her fling with Tom (ironically, Babs only wanted Tom to THINK he'd slept with her; he had not).

Casey walks in (who could have dreamed Margo would pull the plug on him in a little over 4 years? Babs makes an innuendo that Margo and Casey are fucking. Margo slaps Barbara in the face.

This was classic Marland and the clip they showed at the 1986 Daytime Emmys that July; eligibility periods used to go from March to March and this scene is from March 1986 so it's entirely possible it was the actual clip submitted.

Oddly, Doug never won for writing ATWT. That year, Bill Bell won for writing Y&R -- but the victory was short-lived. NATAS's tabulation firm made a colossal error. The real winner was Pam Long for GL. Again, not sure if the clip shown was the winner but the video was of Reva blasting Vanessa after she remembered that she caused Reva's miscarriage while zonked out on pills.

"H.B.! Our baby was a miracle and we're never going to have another one!" My mom always got a laugh out of that line.

Go get your A1C checked fossils

Gregg Marx: hottest soap gay ever?

Michael Corbett was pretty damn hot!

Peter Porte is très hawt.

[quote]Michael Corbett was pretty damn hot!

Is he a gay?

Peter Porte and Michael Corbett are both gay.

R.I.P. Liz Hubbard, I'm still able to recall many of her ad libs. No matter how little material they would give her in later years on ATWT, she would still make the most of what she was given. Constantly one of the best actors on their show.

I remember some scene where Lucinda went to someone at their office…maybe Steve and Betsy? Anyhoo, she was supposed to sit down and deliver her lines, but before sitting she looked at the chair and under her breath said, “oh, what an appalling chair”..I remember my friend and I rewinding that bit several times and howling. To this day, I still think or say that whenever I see a hideous chair.

Have any of our soap queens seen this (White Girl in Danger)?

Scroll towards the end to where the playwright recaps the Iva-Lily-Lucinda-Holden story for the director of his play. Never thought I'd see that in the New Yorker.

In the Christmas Eve episode fro 1985 (!) nearly 40 years ago, Lily chastises Holden for dragging his wet shoes into the Walsh living room. It's a contrast to later, Lily dragging HER wet boots into the Snyder kitchen.

The silent look on Holden's face spoke volumes.

Later in the show, cut back to Lucinda coming into her living room and she looks down at the carpet in disgust! (Ugggh!)

Liz read the whole script, I guess.

Interesting r473, considering he would have been a very young child when the Lily/Holden/Iva/Lucinda story was a thing. Maybe he got into it with the Lily/Rose story.

Lucinda's butler, "Matthew" (seen in the clip at R474) is still a handsome guy.

In L.A., He still acts on occasion, but primarily works as an editor. He even earned a Daytime Emmy nomination in the multi-camera category for his work on "Passions" and served as the editor for the documentary on that soap produced in 2019.

Part of Lucinda's presence and world was her staff and colleagues -- Jane, Ambrose, Matthew, Rosa (!), Fenwick (I don't think we ever saw him but he was always there with the limo), Marlow, the editor, at the City Times,

Poor Liz.

Liz didn’t read the fine print in her policy. Shame on her and her money grubbing son.

That story made me hate Liz and her bastard son. (She had no idea who fathered him beyond “one of the white guys I was fucking.” Blank birth certificate.)

We all know the realities of aging. Not sure seeing the beautiful Liz Hubbard on her deathbed is necessary. I certainly hope my family doesn't invite cameras in to film me on my deathbed -- no matter how much money is on the line.

I give props to the local news that blurred her out. I prefer to think of Liz in Lucinda's mansion with her three Christmas trees, three daughters -- Lily, Sierra, Bianca -- and lusting after Craig while barking orders at Jane (Gettinhere, Jane!), Ambrose, British Ambrose, Matthew and the never seen Fenwick.

Was she a cougar in real life? She seemed like she craved cock especially young cock. I wonder if she had a much younger bed friend who serviced her.

Is MAGA Martha anti-gay and anti-choice?

R484 Unless Mrs. McCahon is a cafeteria Catholic, then she's more than likely of the "hate the sin, not the sinner" ilk and the "sanctity of life" philosophy. She's into Mariology, so think celibacy and adoption.

[quote] She seemed like she craved cock especially young cock. I wonder if she had a much younger bed friend who serviced her.

Some of you DESPERATELY need to leave the house more.

[quote]Some of you DESPERATELY need to leave the house more.

This has turned into such a dull cliche on DL.

Is there a current P&G thread, or is this it? I am looking for gossip about Martha Byrne's meltdown on Facebook recently.

R488

Scott Bryce (THE Craig, AWtW) has chimed in with support on Martha's facebook page.

Scott is a class act.

It's easy to stand by a friend when they're in the right.

Your TRUE friends will stand by you in difficult times.

There was a scene once in 1986 when Craig told Lucinda he was leaving town; he'd had enough; Lily BURST into tears and said that she didn't want Craig to leave because he'd been the closest thing to a father she'd ever had after her father died by suicide.

Lucinda, upon hearing this, let out a sympathetic 'OH, Baby!"

Here's a link to an article about Martha Byrne's husband's conviction. As far as I am concerned, the article doesn't do a good job of explaining what the prosecutor's evidence was that lead to his conviction. Did they prove that he knew he was working for the Chinese government?

I thought she was an old lady when I watched ATWT in the 80's, funny she must have been in her 40's then.

She was in her early fifties when she was hired, R493.

Look, I'm sure Martha's husband is "conservative", or whatever, but I think he's being honest when he says he didn't know he was working for the Chinese government. What idiot would contact the local police and tell them where he was and what he was doing if he were knowingly engaging in work that violated federal law? What idiot would allow the the feds to question him without a lawyer and hand over his cell phone, no questions asked? This guy was a law enforcement agent. He wouldn't have done ANY of those things if he were guilty.

There is no way he won't get off on appeal.

Back to our Liz. Here she is on the Dutch soap Goede Tijden, Slechte Tijden as sexologist Sair Poindexter. The actors playing Ludo and Martijn, respectively, are sex on a stick.

The bald one is hot.

The one Liz says something to about lipstick.....looks impressively like Martha.

the bald one is indeed hot.

I love how LIz's characters could just dismiss people.

She was a legend.

Lucinda tried to give Josh Rod a check for saving Lily from James Stenbeck and he ripped it up without even looking at the amount. He informed Lucinda that someday she'd learn money can't buy everything -- including his love for Lily.

Lucinda, on some level impressed by poor Josh Rod says, "Well, you've come a long way, baby. From rapist to hero...to TEACHER!" Then she said while grateful to him for saving Lily she said her feelings over him raping Iva weren't going to ever change.

Here’s the bald one (German actor Peter Post) in his underwear about a minute into this. And there’s a shot later where his eminently lickable feet can be spotted.

One more clip-the hot bald guy (Martijn) in a sauna scene with the beautiful lipstick lady (Maxime), followed by another scene with La Hubbard (Sair). This aired in September 2009. It nakes sense now why there seemed to be a hostile atmosphere between Sair and Maxime in December 2009.

Alan is doing a tribute to Liz next week on The Locher Room with Scott Bryce and Martha Byrne.

I thought the Liz Hubbard tribute was very disappointing. It was just Martha Byrne and Scott Bryce talking in circles about how Liz was a great teacher and mentor and also unpredictable to work with. Alan should have had on a variety of people who worked with Liz over the years, like the Dutch actress who played her daughter on Goede Tijden, Slechte Tijden.

How did the actors REALLY feel about Liz adlibbing constantly?

Here, she tells a somber Barbara, who's going off to jail, that she shouldn't sell Simply Barbara to her.

"Darling, Simply Barbara without Barbara simply wouldn't be Simply Barbara."

I love the end of that episode, when the cast sings Have Yourself A Merry Little Christmas. You can tell some of them (Anne Sward) were enjoying themselves, and others (Billy Eilish’s mom) were not happy.

This was Billy's mom's last episode.

Lisa stopped her at the door to keep her from going over to Tom's so he and Margo could have a reunion.

Lisa said something like 'I'm going to break both your legs; you're a doctor; you know how much that will hurt."

the next day, Kim and Lisa were dishing about how Taylor up and left her job.

Billie's mom knew she was gone probably. Can't blame her for not having holiday cheer.