Trans people of yesteryear

Nana Mouskouri is still going strong at 88!

Dr Renee Richards

Welsh travel writer Jan Morris, who was the only journalist to scale Mount Everest with Sir Edmund Hillary, among many other accomplishments.

Heino

You realize Jan Morris dead, r3.

Louise Lasser dated Renee Richards after she divorced Woody Allen, not sure if that makes her a lesbian or what??

R5, R3 wrote "Welsh travel writer Jan Morris, who was". I think R3 realizes Jan Morris is indeed dead.

R1 = Paul

The beautiful Christine Jorgensen

Wendy Carlos composed the music for The Shining

These bitches is as ugly as my dog's asshole...

Roberta Cowell

Louise Lasser was a heavy drug user.

Jorgensen, Carlos, Richards, and Morris all were interesting and accomplished people as well, not 30-year-olds into anime and green hair.

This was a pretty good documentary.

The first trans man to get a penis.

[quote] trans man

Those words are an anachronism.

The thought, the concept, the words for such a thing did not exist in the 1940s.

My best American mate told me how his parents once had Renée Richards as a guest at one of their dinner parties. I believe it was sometime early-eighties. He doesn't remember if she was a plus one, or directly invited, but his parents said that they really liked her.

My friend is somewhat a typically straight person, yet very liberal, and always has defended trans folk, in addition to gays and lesbians. I'm proud to call him a friend. He's still awfully proud his folks had her to dinner, so many years on, he still loves telling people.

Deirdre McCloskey is a pretty famous economist and was Donald McCloskey up until her early 50s. She wrote a book about it. She's pretty conservative and I wonder what she thinks about today's trans crowd.

R16 Whatever he got sewn onto the crotch area, was not a penis.

Words have meaning.

What he had was skin that had been shaved off the arm or leg. Then it was rolled into a tube and sewn onto or around the vagina.

None of them were "trans", since humans cannot transition into something else. They were men who preferred to present as women. They remained men. They also didn't demand that society pander to the choice.

They were known as transexuals.

R21 Asiae from playing into your silly semantics game, they wefe who they were... and back then they were collectively known as TRANSsexuals. Still trans, you twat.

Asiae and Ypir did several modelling photo shoots together in the 70s.

April Ashley

Canary Conn

Candy Darling

Caroline Cossey

Coccinelle

Amanda Lear (although she denies it to this day)

Both Jan Morris and Deirdre McCloskey married women and fathered children. They are autogynophiles. McCloskey also stole women's clothing when he was a teenager, it's on his Wikipedia page.

R23 And speaking of silly semantics, you're attempting parity between "transsexual" and "transgender" to agenda. They are two completely different terms, especially in relation to social use/understanding. "Transsexuals" were men presenting as women, but were not deluded that they were anything other than men. That's not the case with "transgender".

R18

My father, who's over 90, had Renee Richards as an ophthalmologist.

Roberta Close was famous in Brazil during the '80s.

John Waters has a famous quote that "gay is not enough," suggesting that it's not enough to make you interesting or special.

I think it needs to be updated as "trans is not enough." So much colored hair, so much anime, so much micro-self-definition, so few accomplishments.

Funny review of [italic]Let Me Die a Woman[/italic]

R27 Is there really any consensus amongst mental health professionals that autogynophiles are even an identity? Even so, assuming they're a special subset of transpeople, I still support their living their lives on their own terms. Until you've walked in their shoes...

R28 I don't really care about any of that really.

R29 Cool, does he have any anecdotes? My mates parents said Renée had a wicked sense of humour.

[quote] I don't really care about any of that really.

R33 And yet you cared enough to expend effort to spew juvenile pejorative at a poster who dissented from your worldview.

Aleshia Brevard was a former drag queen who had surgery and had a few minor movie roles during the '60s

R34 You attempt making points that are actually meaningless to this thread, so bug off! There are countless pejorative threads about trans folk. Skiddle on over to one of those...I've thoroughly explained my position.

Caroline Cossey

Caroline Cossey

R33 I'm gonna have to agree with 34. You're coming across as a petulant "queer" heterosexual that we see so often on reddit.

Your first comment about men with AGP is a tip-off that you're a trans activist. It is common for the current crop of activists to play dumb about men with that fetish.

We all know AGP isn't an identity. It's a fetish. They often talk about their "euphoria boners".

R36 It is not "meaningless" to raise the issue that "transsexual" and "transgender" are two different terms with no corrolation, no matter how much you erroneously attempt parity to agenda.

Romy Haag

R40 I don't see the point really. Conservatards argue one cannot change sex; yet gender is between the ears, shall we say... not between one's legs.

I should think you would approve the new term.

R39 posts wisdom. Back then, it was called "transsexual". Now it's called "transgender". Different times, same fetish. See William Thomas and Dr. Richard Levine for examples.

People banging on about AGENDAS need to go £u€k themselves!

Alexandra Billings

[quote] yet gender is between the ears, shall we say... not between one's legs.

R42 Uh, no, it most certainly isn't. It's between the legs, the same as sex. Any government form will confirm that. Gender: Male, Female. Check one.

[quote] Conservatards argue

You of courses include yourself, because there is nothing more conservative and regressive than calling a man in a dress and make-up a woman.

R43 Wisdom my arse, Einstein. There were many who once said an attraction to one's own sex was a FETISH. Who the fuck really cares what you prefer calling it?

I remember back when most people didn't realize that there were transmen. They were so rare. I even remember Nora Ephron, who at times could be an overconfident know-it-all, writing that women never transitioned because they had too much sense.

R46 It must be awfully lonely being a troll. Tell us more about how your particular predilections came into being, or focus for you.

This thread isn't for you.

[quote] There were many who once said an attraction to one's own sex was a FETISH.

R47 Uh, no they didn't. They called it against the laws of the Bible. But you wouldn't know that.

[quote] Who the fuck really cares what you prefer calling it?

YOU obviously don't. Doesn't change one iota the assertions about the images posted in this thread are ALL men fetishizing being women.

R45 That actor is very angry and unstable in real life. In an HRC dinner, that actor went off on a group of gay men and lesbians and threatened them during the speech:

It's featured at the 28:42 mark:

R49 Troll = Someone who has the temerity to dissent from your worldview.

You do realize that this is an adult discussion board where posters post a variety of opinions, don't you?

R50 I fetishise lots of things myself. I don't find your insults terrifying. That must make you feel even more sad.

Now go wank to pics of Matt Walsh. We've had just about enough of you here.

Jayne (formerly Wayne) County

[quote] We've had just about enough of you here.

R53 You post only for yourself. You do not speak for others. That's what adults do. It's an adult discussion board, remember?

For the trolls and spammers.

Dr. Richards was often considered the best opthamological surgeon in the country.

I give her props for how she made her way in women’s tennis. With the lawsuits and crap from old-timers and the press re the US Open, she still made the women’s doubles final that first year.

It's fine to have a sexual fetish but the rest of the population shouldn't have to be included in them. Keep your fetishes to yourself. Forcing other people to be part of your fetish is compelled speech.

R59 UH, OK Dr.Jordan B. Peterskin. (aka schmuck)

R57 Women often dressed as men for greater financial opportunity, especially in societies where women were virtual chattel with possibility of self-support. Nothing to do with fetishizing.

^^^^ NO possibility

R60 59 makes a good point.

I would argue that Dylan Mulvaney is a man with AGP, and several actual trans folks agree with that conclusion.

In his "free the bulge" video, he talks about wearing mini-skirts that reveal his half-hard chub.

He argues that society needs to, in his words, "normalize the bulge" and that it is natural for women to have crotch bulges.

If Dylan truly had gender dysphoria he would not want to prominently display his cock in public. And in the video it appears as if he jacked himself off to get his dick hard so that the bulge would be as big as possible.

R63 If you've spent so much time thinking about Dylan in this way, perhaps that is your real problem you've yet come to grips with!

^ opthalmological surgeon

Various terminology for men presenting as women have been used over the centuries: cross-dresser, transvestites, transsexuals, transgender. What hasn't changed are the underlying reasons for this phenomenon: social/culture imperatives, fetishism, delusion.

R56 I'm not posting for myself here, as I'm not trans. I'm posting for THEM. ALL of them. 🏳️‍⚧️🏳️‍⚧️🏳️‍⚧️🏳️‍⚧️🏳️‍⚧️🏳️‍⚧️🏳️‍⚧️🏳️‍⚧️🏳️‍⚧️🏳️‍⚧️🏳️‍⚧️🏳️‍⚧️🏳️‍⚧️🏳️‍⚧️🏳️‍⚧️🏳️‍⚧️🏳️‍⚧️🏳️‍⚧️🏳️‍⚧️🏳️‍⚧️🏳️‍⚧️🏳️‍⚧️🏳️‍⚧️🏳️‍⚧️🏳️‍⚧️🏳️‍⚧️🏳️‍⚧️🏳️‍⚧️🏳️‍⚧️

R67 You're posting only for yourself. Because "all of them" did not request that you post on their behalf.

I cherish my first-edition, hardcover copy of “Second Serve: The Renee Richards Story.”

R68 I have several trans folk in my life, whom I love dearly. As I said, I'm posting for all of them. You probably don't even know any.

This ragged harpy

R70 They didn't request that you post on their behalf. Therefore, you are posting only for yourself, using the self-serving claim "I'm doing it for 'them'".

[quote] "Heino"

I had no idea Marty Feldman had a pseudonym, R4. Let alone, a music career.

R72 Enough already with you. Cool your jets, toots. The afterburn of your hate is enough.

I blocked 70 to check out his history.

It appears as if he's on the manic side of a bipolar episode.

very sad situation

R74 Pointing out reality is not "hate". It's reality. Something that people caught up in the delusion game abhor.

[quote] "Wendy Carlos composed the music for The Shining"

SOME, R10. Not all.

R75 You're completely delusional. I simply posted three images as well as positive remarks... You have posted nothing but antagonising and negative remarks.

Why don't you simply create yet another anti-trans thread, rather than spam this one? You're the one who persists in being manic in your hate here. You're not going to win any of us to your side, no matter the insults.

This person

Bond Girl Tula

R78....

R76 The reality is you need to ask yourself why you think you should prevent people supporting trans folk here (each and every post) or why you feel such a need to control them. Who the fuck are YOU?

You're terribly full of yourself.

R78

[quote] Why don't you simply create yet another anti-trans thread,

One cannot be "anti" something that does not exist.

[quote] You're the one who persists in being manic in your hate here.

Asserting an opinion is not hate. It's called discussion.

[quote] You're not going to win any of us to your side, no matter the insults.

This is a discussion forum, where people post a variety of opinions. Not a battlefield or re-education camp.

You'll note the persons in this thread who can't debate an issue so they use abuse.

R83 You've stated your negative opinions, doesn't it become a hore to negatively react to each and every post in support of trans? Get a life Bitch.

Einar Wegener

R85 I've asserted opinions. "Negative" is your personal bias. You post, others respond. That's how it works on a discussion board.

Einar herself

When I was a kid, my family and I would see Christine Jurgensen around town quite a bit.

Very nice person, and I remember asking my parents who she was, and they just said an actress.

I'll have to ask my mom what she thought, although my family was very liberal.

R87 When you make negative and insulting replies to each and EVERY post I contribute, that makes you a bloody TROLL... That is how "that works here". This isn't a discussion, you massive cunt.

R90 When you use childish pejoratives to respond to adults, that makes you a child having a rant. And THAT is what is not a discussion.

R91 You're a troll, not an adult. AND you smell like a really fetid cunt.

Gurls, gurls! You're both cunts!

R92 You're a ranting child having a tantrum because the adults don't nod slavishly to what you post.

R92 Troll is a pejorative, what children use to signify anyone who dissents from their personal prejudices/biases.

R94 I only here someone cunting and panting in the dark. You're truly pathetic.

So you hate trans! We don't care, and continue contributing to this thread.

R96 Hate is not offering an opinion. Except to children who MUST be supported in their prejudices.

We? You post for no one other than yourself. Adult discussion, remember?

R96 You've been so busy posting childish invective that you haven't noticed that YOU'RE the only one doing so. Wonder why?

Imagine how the trolls shall react on the 31st of March! I'll be here posting links to famous trans musicians, artists, and politicians.

R99 Men in womanface. So "progressive".

R94 Fuck off with your "adult" concept, I'm nearly sixty years-old.

R101 And behaving like an empty-headed ranting child. Shame on you!

R102 Blah, blah, blah... You're hilariously dim-witted, and stodgy. Get a life, CUNT.

R103 And STILL behaving like an empty-headed ranting child. At least the adult posters will be well aware of who supports translunatics and their lunacy.

Actress/actor visit Calpernia Addams. She was played by Lee Pace in “Soldier’s Girl”. I remember her LOGO “Bachelorette”-style show from 2008.

^*Should say Actress/activist…

R105 Calpernia is very pretty.

^ Stella Stevens's ugly twin

Jame Gumb

Jackie Shane!

Walk it off, Scampers.

Beverly LaSalle

Renee Richards has said recently that, in retrospect, her tennis career was a mistake and unfair to biological women.

R144. What’s the source for your assertion? Any search for a “recent” interview does not indicate /regrets/ for her playing tennis.

E.g. see the link ir her actual thoughts

R115, I remember reading those comments in a magazine that was posted online. Maybe it was Newsweek? Not sure.

I was glad to see he was less self-centered in his older years and realized it was wrong.

I've observed a few of my gay ("queer"!) acquaintances who do nothing but angrily demand we all live according to the approved Trans Agenda are what they call "altruistic narcissists".

I avoid them like the plague!

R115 Does that human have a penis?

Both Renee Richards and Jan Morris ended up moving back in with the wives they'd divorced when they transitioned.

Maybe she's changed her mind again, but in this 2015 interview for Pink News (or all things) she said that, R115.

While not scientific, I generally believe when a trans dates the opposite sex of their desired gender -they're usually legit -when they go for the same sex -it's some weird ass fetish.

Christine '54

[quote]R120 in this 2015 interview for Pink News (or all things) she said that,

Isn’t “Pink News” some conservative propaganda rag? Why would anyone trust that flimsy site?

Billy Tipton

*

R125 no, she did not say she had regrets. The pinkness “writer” said it, without any quotation. The underlying Slate article never quotes ant regrets. It only reference her consideration of what she might or might not have chosen to do with pro tennis had she undergone surgery at a much younger age.

[quote]Isn’t “Pink News” some conservative propaganda rag?

Seriously???

R119

Richards moved back with her wife? When? I read a long interview with Richards in the New York Times some years ago. She was living in a house north of New York City with a woman who was a platonic companion. I got the impression the companion did housework and looked after Richards.

As for regrets, in another publication whose name I can't recall, Richards said she regretted transitioning at her age not because she disliked being a woman, but because she wasn't prepared for the sexism women faced. She said that as a doctor, former member of the military, and a husband and a father she'd had a life of achievements and it was upsetting to be so disrespected because of her gender.

Jan Morris was in the army, before he left and transitioned. Apparently he had a very active gay sex life. A recent book doesn't paint him in a favorable light. He was extremely selfish and self absorbed. and a truly lousy father. His trans identity overwhelmed and dominated the family.

Yes, r129 because "trans" people are generally all narcissists.

Gayle Sherman was a Chicago drag queen who became a stripper in straight clubs under the name "Alexandra the Great 48."

Speaking of Chicago, r131...

Chili Pepper

Rachel Harlow (Jack Doroshow) from “The Queen.” Created scandal when she dated Grace Kelly’s brother.

I have to admit Wendy Carlos was pretty unclockable for a MTF, even with the big jawline. That's pretty remarkable.

I watched "Let Me Die A Woman" on the Criterion Channel last week and chuckled throughout. Destined to be a DL classic. I fast forwarded through the surgery scenes because I was horrified.

Not everyone was a fan of Rachel Harlow:

[quote] "I have a RIGHT to show my color, darling!

We have a RIGHT to turn away.

R134 the only thing that matters is being unclockable in person. I bet the jawline, height, hands and feet made reality undeniable if Wendy was right in front of your face.

Jamie Lee Curtis

A Man: Dale Ear is still alive.

Wendy Carlos, prior to coming out of the closet. A rare glimpse at a trans woman trying to pass as male and failing.

Heino is not trans.

Genesis P-Orridge, Holly Woodlawn, International Chrysis

Khrystyne Jorganson

Why is the person at Op sitting at a switchboard attached to a piano?

To make music, R145

I don't get the allergic reaction that some have to the word "people".

Amanda LePore is supposedly 55, so that puts her in elder strata. What has she said about trans rights? I don't follow her.

She's still around and revered by many people.

Friends of mine who knew McCloskey in academia said she was an asshole when she was Donald and just as big an asshole when she “became” Deirdre, so at least there was consistency. I only met Professor McCloskey once, at a scholarly conference, and she struck me as having retained all the male entitlement and self-centered ness of the typical academic male (and I am an academic male myself). Or, as one of her colleagues said, “Imagine going to all that trouble just to become a copy of Margaret Thatcher!”

The ones back then didnt seem so mentally ill as the ones today.

You never heard Tula scream “it’s MA’AM!”

Wendy Carlos has never been a person comfortable in the public. She hasn't been in public life for decades. Also she hasn't licensed any of her music for distribution for years.

Caroline Cossey is kind of a babe.

[quote]Why have they been so silent during this trans movement in the past few years?

Because they were civilized and realized the world didn't revolve around them. Unlike today's crowd that come across for the most part as lunatics. Today's movement needs to get their act together.

Those old trannies were really accomplished in mathematical and scientific fields. And music composition.

I'm fully convinced transgenderism is correlated with autism at this point.

The photo at R88 is Einar Wegener's wife Gerda. Here's Einar after he became Lili Elbe.