Why don't you have children? Do you feel like you're missing out?

Because I’m a faggot. Duh.

If evidence was required that DL is turning into Frau Central, look no further than this thread.

Children are only for the very rich, who can hire enough help, or for the very poor who get paid by the government to have them (single mothers only, please). No one in between can have them without ruining their lives.

JFC OP. This is not the right community for you. Go find another site and take the rest of the fraus with you. Or at least don’t start ridiculous threads like this week after week.

'Mos are not meant to have children but to help in raising the children of sibs and family. That's why we always will be a small but normal part of society even if we do not reproduce.

Oh yeah, and to entertain and make beautiful things.

R3 Agreed. Middle class people in my country are always complaining about the cost of childcare (it's more than their mortgage), but they still go on to have two or three kids.

If I were a millionaire, I still wouldn't want a child but parenthood seems less awful as a rich person. You can pay nannies to do the hard work, and you can only turn up for the fun stuff like vacations.

It doesn’t sound like fun.

[quote]Mos are not meant to have children but to help in raising the children of sibs and family. That's why we always will be a small but normal part of society even if we do not reproduce.

Anyone who can produce sperm is meant to be able to have children and we will always be part of society as long as more than one person of either sex exists.

R8 Thank you, Elliot Page.

No, never wanted kids. Never understood gays who pay $80000 for a test tube baby.

The other day at a dinner table discussion at my parents' place, I joked to my Mom that "children are sticky and full of lies", and she got so upset. I had to talk her off the ledge. So I think grandparental pressure really gets to some people.

Not me, though. I know that while I'd love my kids if I had them and try my best to care for them, I'm so inattentive and lazy and emotionally-unstable that I'd fuck up their lives, and I can't live with doing that.

Never wanted kids. Never had that impulse. Because of that, I would probably be bad at it. I don't feel like I'm missing out.

I do wish fewer people would just blunder into it, because I suspect most of them suck at raising kids and cause a lot of future problems.

Would love to have children. Bummed it probably won't happen for me. :(

R13 because you keep getting bummed!

No because I have a dachshund who demands that I baby him and a smart, fun, loving Boston Terrier.

R15 And you're getting bummed, so no butt babies for you!

[quote] Children are only for the very rich, who can hire enough help, or for the very poor who get paid by the government to have them (single mothers only, please).

My friend is very rich, has help, and is miserable. Nanny's have lives too. COVID showed parents and the world how much they couldn't and shouldn't be around their children 24/7. Especially when nannies were hard to come by and unreliable. Millienials/Gen X cusp are now speaking openly about how awful being a parent is and not being shamed.

op Thanks for you thoughts and honesty. You're describing my parents exactly. They actually did there best but I was definitely an accident.It takes bravery to write this stuff. Personally I find my dog as the perfect companion. My friends with kids are haggard and bedraggled. I don't envy them at all.

“there best”

OH DEAR!

Loving your child and loving “parenting” are two very different things.

“Parenting” is mostly laundry, dishes, cleaning, cooking, homework, reminding the child to do things constantly, etc. All fairly unpleasant.

I think my parents wanted children, but the children needed to fit their fantasy of what they would turn out to be. Suffice to say, they were beyond disappointed with a gay kid. I think not having children is a good way to break often generational cycles of abuse that are repeated in families. I'm thrilled that my parents will not be getting any grandchildren and the lineage of my nuclear family will die off when we are gone.

One of the great things about being gay used to be the lack of pressure (from parents) to start a family. That’s all ruined now we can get married and all that boring suburban shit. Yay.

^ Another why I won't cry over gay marriage being overturned.

R17 so does your friend's Nanny take a lot of time off? Or not do a thorough job or as much as your friend demands?

R21, I agree, I think genetic traits of depression, anxiety and personality disorders, and alcoholism to self-medicate, should not be passed on.

^The jury is still out on whether autism/Asperger's and agoraphobia is hereditary, but if it is then my father's family gave it to me. I should also have an addict/alcoholic gene from them and my mother's family both, too, so I don't touch substances just in case. I don't advocate eugenics, but also don't think hellbillies riddled with weird mentalism like me should necessarily reproduce.

Unless they are from a fancy agency (and then you are paying very big bucks), most “Nannies” (really babysitters) aren’t terribly reliable.

When my daughter was a newborn, I worked from home before it was a thing. We had a babysitter come in to help.

In 15 months, we had three. One called in “sick” 1-2 days per week— sometimes more.

Another was good, but expected me to work around her schedule, which changed from week to week.

Another I fired after one day. She showed up late, tracked mud through the house (big CHUNKS of mud) and posted photos of our sleeping baby on her social media. All this happened within her first hour or two on the job. I only found out because a friend happened to be friends with her on Facebook and alerted me.

After that we used a small group daycare (only 5 kids) and that worked like a charm. Expensive, though.

I don't have any kids, I have rental real estate, I get paid every month, kids are a liability, a money drain, my real estate rentals are dependable, kids are a waste of time, and totally useless and worthless to me. Just being honest...

My little cousins, my elder cousins' kids--more like nephews tbh, there's a 20 year age gap between me and them--are polite, inquisitive, playful, smart, funny and entertaining. When we meet at gatherings or they come over the house, I really do like hanging out with them and playing and hearing all about their mad little inner lives. Their parents have done well.

But the best part is that I only have to put up with them for a few days at the most, and I only have to deal with the fun easy parts of their care. I've never cleaned up their vom, changed their nappies, had screaming matches with them about going to bed or getting up for school, had to bribe or force-feed them healthy food, fought with them about actually doing their homework to a consistent decent standard or about not talking back to people like a snotty brat or about not throwing tantrums at the store (like my elder cousins did when they were young). And I don't think I'd get much satisfaction or entertainment out of handling any of that.

I know that life naturally has challenges and hard things can be rewarding, but I think doing all that every day for years, with a major possibility of no return or even thanklessness as well as a draining of all resources and on no sleep, would do me in. Having to work and keep up with modern life is stressful enough, and I barely cope with it.

I only worry that in my old age there will be no one to take care of me the way I took care of my parents.

[quote] I only worry that in my old age there will be no one to take care of me the way I took care of my parents.

This is the biggest lament and misconception I hear from gays and straights who don't have children. Who says they will take care of you? Unless you are part of a culture where that is a norm, then there are no guarantees. Save the money you would waste on ungrateful children and put that in an account to afford an in home nurse or nice retirement facility if it comes to that.

R30 The thing is, most children don't want to take care of their elderly parents, and many simply won't. Some do, but they are aggressive and resentful about it. I wouldn't put myself through all the pressure of raising a child, just so I'll have a sour-faced visitor every now and then when I'm 80.

I don't want to live that long anyway. I don't appreciate/enjoy life as a relatively young, healthy person, so there's no way I'm going to stick around as an ill, feeble elder. I like my independence and don't want to be a burden to anyone. Once my body starts to fail me and I can't take care of myself, it's suicide time. I hope voluntary euthanasia is available by the time I get to that stage.

I grew up in a controlling religious fanatic environment. My mother is touched and I have bipolar disorder. I knew very early on that I wanted to break that cycle. Also I like my vagina where it is and prefer animals & freedom instead.

[r33] where would your vagina go if you had had children?

I don't have children because I'm gay and I knew from a young age that I wouldn't have children even if I could. I was a difficult child and I'm sure a disappointment to my parents. I couldn't go through that and I don't want to produce a child who has to live with the guilt that they would likely feel later. My father is still alive and still uses his kids as unpaid help. I think that this was normal in his time and still is for many people. I don't feel like I missed out on anything, I have never had a Christmas where I felt that I was missing something by not having kids and watching them enjoy such things. I would have been a terrible parent and I live in a place where having gay parents would give the kids a childhood of hell.

I'm an extreme worrywort. I could never have a child, I'd think it was about to die or be murdered every ten seconds. I think I'm also in a bit of arrested development or rather I want to spend some time in my 30s making up for time I wasted being reclusive in my 20s. Even if my life was open for that and I had a lot of money I think I'd be a really bad father because I'd have such a hard time letting go of the need to supervise them constantly. I'm completely estranged from my entire family as well, it would just be fucked. Furthermore, I think society is collapsing (globally) and that we are going to enter the worst era in human history within the next four decades.

R32, that applies to bratty American children. If you're Asian, you gladly take care of your elderly parents.

There are more than enough people on this planet.

I don't have children because when my sister's kids come over for a trip I find it very difficult to manage them, and they are hostile and rude to me constantly. It makes me realize i'd be a lousy father because I don't know how to be assertive. I'm really just best concentrating on my career, being single and eventually dying alone.

R31, it is no misconception that I took care of my parents. I understand that it is a 50/50 proposition with any kid. However, there is a 0% probability if you don't have kids.

I hate kids. I hated kids even when I was a kid. From the time I was young, I always hung out with older children, and by the time I was in my early teens, I was spending a lot of time with college students and my neighbors who were in their late 20s.

So I never wanted kids. I knew I was a lesbian very early (12) and I knew I would never have kids. I also knew it was all I could do to keep myself together, much less have to worry about anyone else.

But I did teach at the college level on and off from '04-'12, and that was fun. My students thought I was the next best thing to sliced bread, but I was always in trouble with the administration (I'm a political scientist and I taught here in FL). So when people who are parents (like my sister) would say to me, "You don't know -- you don't have kids!" I would say, "I don't need to have kids! I have other peoples'!"

R30 same. Especially not having many friends or a partner around. It's really scary to think about the future, sometimes I wonder if I want to last as long as my parents have because of that. But then the survivor's guilt sets in. Maybe people have kids just to avoid this crushing existential loneliness.

[quote] Most children don't want to take care of their elderly parents, and many simply won't. Some do, but they are aggressive and resentful about it. I wouldn't put myself through all the pressure of raising a child, just so I'll have a sour-faced visitor every now and then when I'm 80.

Yep, this is my controlling, miserly, snobby and misogynistic narcissist 85-year old grams 100%, the only living grandparent I still have (the two who helped raise me died when I was young).

Me and my mother take care of her, while her richer older sons (my uncles) and their kids do shit to help and stay far away, because they can afford to and they hate her. She's an awful person who has driven almost everyone in her life who could escape her away. She's made my cousins cry, insulted my aunts publicly, made my Mom feel like shit all her life. By all accounts, she was a neglectful mother and a social climber who couldn't be bothered with her own kids, just palmed them off on foreign nannies. I also suspect she nagged and neglected my grandfather into an early death. She has no boundaries and no respect for anyone who isn't filthy rich, money and privilege is all she respects, she makes that very clear.

Me and my Mom both have had conversations where we agree that brutally we're just awaiting her death and for a release from the torment of cleaning up after her all the time, and that we only do it because of general moral compunction not out of any liking or respect for her. And it's not even as bad as it could be, right now she's compos mentis and still able to eat and talk and not shit herself. I wish I had a better career track and more money so I could afford to move away, too.

I have very limited tolerance for kids. I find them annoying and loud and sticky and gross. I have younger friends who are constantly talking about and wanting to show me picture of their kids and it's really the last thing I care about. I smile and say, "oh so cute" but in my head I'm thinking, "I don't care and better you than me."

But I keep those thoughts to myself and start to avoid people who can only talk about their kids and nothing else. I never understood women who talked about their biological clock ticking. I'm a lesbian and I never had that feeling or instinct. I think it's bullshit when women say they have one.

Hell, even as a kid I hated baby dolls. It was Star Wars action figures for me.

R41 Senior Lesbian all that you shared really resonates with me, though sadly I wasn't out even to myself when young, and I'm defo less accomplished & smart than you!

As an autistic chubby asexual nerd I was bullied and excluded by the other kids for being weird and bookish, and never got on with my peer group because I was ahead of them academically and intellectually but behind them socially and emotionally. I spent almost my entire youth age 8-18 socialising with older teens & adults on the internet (1990s-2000s RPG web, a very different landscape to what we have now), and I always preferred talking to teachers than other students (which ofc got me bullied even more). The few misfit 'friends' I ever managed to garner in my age group were just other weird lonely people who needed numbers around them as a social shield and a convenient outlet, we didn't even like each other much or have a lot in common.

Notoriously, once in gradeschool I had a rare epic public meltdown because my class wanted me to play Mary in the school nativity play, and I got so hot about it because I did *not* want to play a pregnant woman/mother nor did I want to play a non-speaking symbolic role nor did I want any part of this Xtian nonsense and pretend to have been knocked up by God (even at age 11 I knew that was bullshit). Mousy quiet little old Me who usually took most Ls on the chin threw such a sudden shocking bitchfit, crying and yelling and running out of the premises, that the teachers instantly rushed to mollify me and said I could be a crossdressed Wise Man instead (yay!). I just couldn't cope emotionally with the idea of even acting as a grown woman with a baby. Probably that should have clued me in to the sexuality question.

R36 also makes a lot of sense to me, and I relate to this so much:

[quote] I'm also in a bit of arrested development or rather I want to spend some time in my 30s making up for time I wasted being reclusive in my 20s.

OP, look into the Ideal Parent Figure protocol (IPF), it sounds like it's something that could help you.

As for me, thank god I never had them or wanted them. I'm still trying to get my shit together at 50, and I'm very glad the generational shit my family seems to have been burdened with stops with me.

R11 I love that line "children are sticky and full of lies" so much! Is it from something?

R45 Tell us more

I’m not interested in kids today, no. Not with “transgenderism”, “non-binary”, “queer”, narcissism, “influencers”, steroid abuse — I consider myself very lucky to be childless.

[quote]I’ve always resented my parents for having me. I’ve spent the majority of my life with depression. I tried to kill myself in my mid-20s and remember feeling an overwhelming hatred for my parents. The only reason I’m here experiencing all of life’s hardships is because those two selfish idiots had me. I’ve let go of that resentment, but I still don’t appreciate being born.

Wow. I basically said a version of this exact lament to my mother the other day. Reading it from someone else just made me realize how incredibly horrible that was to say to her. Especially since I know she's been super anxious and sad since my dad died in 2021. She just got really quiet, softly told me to have a good evening, and ended the call.

I should apologize. That was shitty. OP, we're whiny and shitty. Call your therapist. Immediately.

[quote]'Mos are not meant to have children

Without the context of this being posted on a gay site, I'd immediately assume it was from an alt-right site like Stormfront. I know you didn't mean it that way but, damn did it reek of that same sentiment.

Once upon a time, gay men were not expected to have kids. I applaud those who have broken that barrier and do so. But I am old school gay and glad that pressure was never put upon me. I have a very nice life and never once wanted to have a child. I think women should think long and hard, just because they CAN have a kid doesn't mean they SHOULD.

I'm glad I never had children. I've had to deal with depression for most of my life. I'm pretty sure there's a genetic predisposition to it as there was a lot of undiagnosed depression in my mother's family. I'm glad that stopped with me.

I'd rather cut my tongue out than have a kid.

However, I love my sisters' children to death. So I don't hate kids. I just would never ever want one.

I also think it's the most arrogance and selfish act to spawn. It just is.

We don't need more kids as a species. It just that people hate the idea of having accomplished nothing and they think having a child is like a creating a great work of art. It isn't. At all.

Missing out on grief and disrespect?

What? Have kids? And bring them up in a world where their dehydrated bodies will be scorched black by global warming before they get out of their teens?

Heaven forfend! In the name of humanity, no one should be having kids these days after our generations have made the planet uninhabitable.

About half of my friends' adolescent and adult children are a huge disappointment. But the other half are wonderful - smart, kind, successful, principled - and they have the greatest family relationships. But knowing how lazy and selfish I am, and how I hate young children's specialities - noise, mess and destructiveness - I think I'd probably be in the disappointed camp.

When you think about it, as an investment in future happiness and care, having children is very high risk. You invest a great deal of time and money, and could end up with nothing to show for it. The only way you could change that is if you actually enjoy children and family life while they are young.

It's too late to imagine a future for any kids born today.

[quote]Another why I won't cry over gay marriage being overturned.

Marriage is a contract that is about property ownership and medical privileges. Sometimes kinds are involved.

[quote] I consider myself very lucky to be childless.

The correct term is childFREE.

OP, you are not alone.

Many of us (Boomers) had multiple children after WWII because that's what society expected from them. It was the social and religious norm.

My parents were a bit narcissistic. They were told that they existed to please their own parents and to breed. My Mom wanted two children and to have a career as a high school French teacher and to travel the world (French was the lingua franca at the time). Instead, she got her Mrs. Degree, dropped out of college, and pumped out eight kids, three of whom were non-viable, but ended up with five of us, over a 16-year span. I was the youngest. My parents eventually divorced. Dad was an asshole. Mom was distant. In puberty, I'd yell at her, "Well, I did not ASK to be born!". It might have been because she asked me to clean my room or something, or maybe it was over something more profound. She eventually got a career after us kids left home, had multiple boyfriends, some of whom were evil stepfathers, and when I got my first job after college, I sent her an Xmas card with an airline ticket to Paris, saying, "Thanks for shoving your last one through the birth canal".

When I came out to her, her only comment was "Good! No more Grandkids!". We were always fed and had a clean house. But she was not a demonstrative or affectionate mother. She did not seem to know the difference between me and my partner, or any of her sons and daughters-in-law. We were all her hippies and brats. She ended up traveling the world. Unexpected stuff like traveling the length of Viet Nam in an old school bus to deliver medicine to villages in the 1980s, scuba diving in The Galapagos, spaying stray cats and street dogs in Crete. She was vehemently against "Gay Marriage" when it was first proposed in California because she was against marriage and having children in general, but strangely didn't believe in equal rights for women. "Oh, just you wait until you have kids of your own". Didn't speak to her for a few years, but sent her on a trip to Egypt where I proved my point about how women were treated.

My Mom and my siblings grew closer with her as adults. She resented having to raise us. It was easier to become friends as adults.

Karma would later have that I inherited a niece and a nephew. I knew them as toddlers, but then suddenly they were teens living with me during and after a breakup with my partner, and then they stayed later through college, over a decade. Am not quite a parent, but can't imagine life without their friendship as adults.

Thanks for sharing, R60. Your mother might not have been the world's greatest mother, but she is quite a woman.

I'm a huge animal lover, but I don't even have a pet because I like my freedom and don't want to take on the responsibility at this stage of my life. I find it hard enough to take care of myself. I never liked kids anywhere near as much as animals, so I cannot even imagine wanting to add that burden to my life. Just the financial aspect alone would crush me. I don't want to work any more than I have to to support my modest lifestyle. Plus I am a total introvert and would hate to have someone else constantly in my space, not to mention all the social obligations that come with a kid (school, friends, appointments, activities). Ugh! Also, the fact that you have no say in what kind of kid you end up with is terrifying. You could end up with a sociopath or a drug addict despite trying your very best to raise it properly.

Sad but true: one of the main reasons I never wanted children is because I have a small penis. I would not want to chance giving this trait to a little boy, who may or not be gay.

Another big reason is I did not want to pay for children -- they are terribly expensive. I wanted to retire early, hang out, do whatever, and have fun. Doing this now!

Brats are fucking annoying. End of.

R41 same for me, Senior Lez — I never liked the little brats.

I thank our dear lord and saviour every day that I have no children.

[quote] Unexpected stuff like traveling the length of Viet Nam in an old school bus to deliver medicine to villages in the 1980s

Is R60's Mom Balto the wolf-dog?

R47 what else do you want to know? I feel like I was already tl;dring but

Children are a sexually transmitted disease that lasts 18 years, occasionally much longer. Expensive as fuck all. Ungrateful anchors that weigh you down and suck you dry. Give me freedom. I will spend my money and love on grateful beasts, like dogs.

Actual footage of r68 with his papa from several decades ago.

Way to acknowledge and own that you were the worst thing that ever happened to your parents.

Kids suck, R69

R69 that video takes me back. My younger male cousins tantruming and going feral in the middle of supermarkets taught me at the tender age of 12 what second-hand public embarrassment really is. And showed me the sad reality about squeaky wheels in our society.

Oof, that video made me cringe because the father is a fucking pussy who is trying to negotiate with his kids instead of taking control. Parents who do this shit have zero clue how to be parents. My mother would have told me ONCE to put the toy back and if I didn't, she would have put the shopping cart aside, gathered me up and taken me to the car until I shut the fuck up. Dude was even making fun of his own daughter crying. He's an ass.

R72 exactly. Dad isn't helping his little girl by letting her make a spectacle of herself/the family and then joining in on the 'fun'. He's just conditioning and setting her up for an adolescence and adulthood full of issues. Prick.

This is why so many women don't want kids. Man babies and hurr-durr Braus can't raise children right.

I love that r69 thought they were somehow "owning" r68 with this video but instead, it simply shows why the majority of us don't want sex trophies to begin with.

I never wanted kids either. I had may tubes tied at 25 and never regretted it. It was the best decision I ever made.

Never had kids, primarily because I just never wanted any. Never a moment of parental feeling in my whole life!

Besides, I didn't like being part of a nuclear family when I was a kid myself, I don't like the company of children or even their presence, sometimes I think the responsibility of keeping cats is just too much to bear, I like my freedom and "me time", and because I'm not in denial - I can see how many children and adults loathe and despise their parents. If I were straight, I'd have gotten a vasectomy in my twenties.

r74 Um, that's not why I posted it. I can own that I was the worst thing that happened to my parents and simultaneously complain about how kids are, indeed, a type of STD. A very expensive one.

What does tend to get lost in these conversations is acknowledging how we, ourselves, likely ruined our parents' lives merely by existing.

Obviously, it could be argued that they shouldn't have kept us if we made them miserable, but I do find it interesting how cavalierly we tend to go on about how much of a burden children are without looking back at our own childhoods to re-examine if what irritates us about having children also irritated our parents which may even explain some of their behavior when we were growing up. Just a thought exercise. No harm done.

"What does tend to get lost in these conversations is acknowledging how we, ourselves, likely ruined our parents' lives merely by existing."

We don't blame ourselves for that, because it wasn't OUR idea to be born! We had nothing to do with it!

No, my parents wanted children and originally wanted a big family, but after two my mother at least was ready to call it quits (thanks for telling me that, Mom). No, it was only after I came along that it began to sink in that raising children wasn't what they'd thought it would be, that the kids they actually produced were nothing like the perfect children they'd expected, and like every other middle-class parent of the last 100 years, they realized that they'd been wrong about being better parents than everyone else. That's one of the many reasons I've never wanted children for one second, the fact that my parents obviously hated being parents all along, and that was before they threw me out at 18 and moved to another state.

[quote]That's one of the many reasons I've never wanted children for one second, the fact that my parents obviously hated being parents all along, and that was before they threw me out at 18 and moved to another state.

That's what I'm driving at. I think that a lot of the childfree sentiments come from multiple sources. That biggest source being our own parents being very obviously bitter and miserable about being parents and taking it out on us.

My mother never really seemed to like being a mother, either. Then again, she had me when she was still a teenager. Out of wedlock. To the parolee that was my father. Watching them and dealing with their bullshit, while resenting that she didn't just abort me, made me not want to be a parent. Ever.

*the more passionate childfree sentiments

Don't worry, I've had plenty of kids.

I agree with your mother. I have two grown sons, but if I could do it over, and I do wish I could, I would have followed my dreams instead. I am middle aged and forgotten. She's right.

R77 no one is blaming the children for anything. That includes our own selves as children. What a strange claim you're making.

We blame any adult who chooses to spawn.

If a parent chose to have a kid and then decides that children are a burden? Fuck them. Don't have a child in the first place. It's not a fucking mystery that kids are a drain.

Nope. I’m too selfish and lazy to want to have kids gay or not

r83 I'm suggesting that a lot of the more "extreme" hate expressed towards kids such as the rant at r68 might be a form of a projection from being raised by parents who treated them like a mistake that they regret. It's projection. Most healthy-minded child-free people don't start droning on about the "ungratefulness" of kids. That sounded personal, honestly. Hence, why I posted the video of the kid with their shitty, ineffectual father, throwing a tantrum in Walmart.

I was molested.

Get a dog

I'm an uncle. I enjoy assisting with my brother's kids but I don't want kids of my own.

[quote]Parenting” is mostly laundry, dishes, cleaning

But that’s just the thing. All we are are just tiny specks of time. I probably won’t have children but in another life I really would have liked to have someone to do laundry and taxes with and have kids.

Of course you have to earn it, but if you do, there's that age when your young son looks up to you as the biggest brightest bestest dad in the whole world. And having missed that hurts.

R90 Mary!

My mother, who had NO filter, lamented non-stop about all the things she could have done if she hadn't had children. When I was nine, I knew where babies came from, and asked her why she had children then? She said, 'Oh honey, the things you want at 21, when you're thirty, you know you don't want them.'

My father, the youngest in a family business, became very rich before the age of 30. Suddenly we were surplus to requirements, and shunted off to boarding school and summer camps.

I felt no qualms about moving overseas after university, and barely saw them after that.

R92 Poor little rich gurl.

I never wanted them. I rarely think children are 'adorable' and am frankly bemused by the way some people fuss and fawn over babies, many of which look sort of ugly to me. Puppies and kittens are another story -- I love them. Maybe it's genetic and I didn't get the children gene. Or I just like peace and quiet. Or I find meaning from other people and other activities in my life.

[quote] I hate kids. I hated kids even when I was a kid.

R41 I can SO relate to this! I was never good with children, even when I WAS one! Its a great line to pull on those people who say "But you were a child once?". Yeah, didnt like em then either.

That said I dont hate children generally, but I prefer not to be around them if possible.

[quote]I thank our dear lord and saviour every day that I have no children.

R65 and that's a great line too. One to pull out when dealing with fundamentalists and the like

I teach kids, so no, not missing out

R87 there are days I feel too depressed and hopeless to even feed and walk my pup and towel the mud off him after, though 9/10 I usually end up doing it anyway (responsible pet ownership!), the routine exercise is good for me, and it doesn’t take more than an hour or so. I cuddle him daily no matter what.

That’s how I know I should not and could not handle kids. Animal neglect is wrong and horrific; child neglect is 50 times worse. I am sadly not someone who has emotional stability or a good strong upbeat baseline for resilience, which imo are requisites dealing with young kids.

The best parents I know are sunny, pragmatic and organised, highly accountable never-say-die types, with healthy boundaries and tough but fair DIY attitudes. Capable realistic optimists, basically. I don’t think any other sort of person manages well rearing children.

I wonder if they'll have regrets years from now.

Children just don't fit in with my [italic]erotic[/italic] lifestyle.

Today, my Boomer dad--with whom I am temporarily sharing a living space--left me a note to say he was out for the day, and he used my nickname not my formal given name (that I hate) and signed it 'Daddy'. I almost fucking cried reading it, I felt so stupid and emotional.

Because up until pandemic times, he's always been pretty emotionally distant and changeable with me and hasn't bothered his ass to care about things like my nickname or my birthday or telling me where he's going. He doesn't usually do things like this. This has me almost as much in my feelings as when I found out that when I was a toddler he used to use my name as his computer system password at work. Like he goes years without showing me much consideration or attention, then does shit like that. It messes with my head completely, because I never get a clear picture of how he feels about me, whether he regrets my existence or not.

It's so painful when you don't know whether your parent loves you (or loves you the same, or the most, or consistently) over the course of your life. I wouldn't ever want to put another person through that, and I'm similar to my father in terms of personality, so I figure I probably fucking would by accident.

OP, why the should default mode be why do I NOT have children? Shouldn't the question be, "Why do you HAVE children?" for the people who have them?

You're an asshole.

The foster system in the US is overrun with unwanted children who are in most cases removed unwillingly from their parents. Imagine if you could drop them off as easily as an an unwanted pet to the shelter, with no guilt like people can discard pets. The kid shelters would be full.

"Most healthy-minded child-free people don't start droning on about the "ungratefulness" of kids. "

Yeah, it's mostly the parents saying that!

But because I've listened to so many parental rants, mostly about children who treat ordinary schmoes like they're the Bank Of Charles or something, I too have formed the opinion that most modern children are as ungrateful as hell! Of course I rarely say so, because when the parents are going off on the subject and I can't get a word in edgewise.

I hate kids

Speak for yourself.

R100 I understand you. Never knew where I sat with my dad, and found myself groveling for his approval in between his abuse. I don’t miss him.

I come from a single parent household. I’m the ultimate joy and goal was to find a (hot) husband and settle down. I don’t really care if kids are included or not, just having someone to spend your life with as an adult was my dream. I know it was my mothers as well after her marriage to my father went up in flames.

I would never choose to be a single parents so doubt I’ll adopt a kid before I get married. No op, I’ve never felt left out. Hell, even with a six-figure income focused 100% on me and my wants, I still feel poorer than I should. God knows what this would be like with 1-2 crumb snatchers.

It’s not having ur kids that makes me feel any type of way, it’s about having a man that may want to raise kids with me of hell, just be with me and me with him. All the rest really doesn’t matter.

"Hell, even with a six-figure income focused 100% on me and my wants, I still feel poorer than I should. God knows what this would be like with 1-2 crumb snatchers."

Me too. I made 200K last year, and I still feel poor.

My parents grew up poor in the Great Depression, never lost the feeling that poverty was just around the corner so they couldn't "waste" money, and even after they became very well off. So they threw me out at 18 because they weren't about to spend money on college for the kids, guaranteeing that I would spend a couple of decades being poor too, so thanks for the intergenerational trauma! Well screw that, I'm fixing myself instead of passing it all on like they did.

[quote]

OP, why the should default mode be why do I NOT have children? Shouldn't the question be, "Why do you HAVE children?" for the people who have them?

You're an asshole.

I'm not the OP, but r101 is a typical breeder who thinks the world revolves around her and her spawn. Newsflash hon, it's not all about you. No one gives a shit why YOU HAVE children. Childfree people are the minority and it is interesting to find out some of the reasons why.

*The foulest stench is in the air

The fraus of forty thousand years*

Another troll thread that YOU wrote. A "frau" didn't start this, you did.

My Zillennial little sister and her man work good jobs, are smart and educated and conscientious, save money and live frugal etc. And they can't make rent on a box to live in. They want kids, but it's looking ever more likely that it will be financially out of their reach.

R100, tells us more about your emotionally unavailable daddy who gives you just enough love to remind you that you're (mostly) worthless to him.

Is he a hot boomer? Does he treat his partners in the same cold, manipulative manner he treats you?

R113 sorry to disappoint but he is a paunchy surly homophobic smoker with craggy sun-damaged skin and some kind of autism (mental illness and addiction run in his family). He was also neglected and abused as a child, so has a fuckton of issues. Not a catch or someone you'd want in your bed or your life.

No idea why my Mum keeps him around, presumably for the free DIY/yard maintenance (he is good with his hands tbf). He's nicer to my Mum than he is to any other person on Earth (especially women), but even to her he's sometimes fucking rude or neglectful. My mother is lovely, she deserves so much more spoiling than he gives her. If I were a lad and a lot tougher I'd have decked him long ago.

Tonight he's ruined any temporary good feelings I had from the other day. I walked into the TV room to watch the football with him, trying to be nice and social, and after the first thing out of my mouth (a completely neutral comment) he jumped down my throat mansplaining it in the loudest most condescending way as if I'm deaf or stupid. So I sighed, said "yeah, ok", and walked out again, to go and watch the game quietly on my own on my laptop.

These days I try to look after myself and my wellbeing, and not put up with him when I don't have to. But of course, because I'm a decent person with compassion I still have moments of feeling guilt and self-flagellation about it. You can't fucking win.

I was amused by the responses to my post. FYI: My parents were wonderful and I had a fabulous childhood. My dislike of children is just a basic dislike. I hate green peppers as well. Not fond of heights either.

r115

[quote]So I sighed, said "yeah, ok", and walked out again, to go and watch the game quietly on my own on my laptop.

Of course he's disappointed. He raised a doormat. Man up and tell him what you think.

Do you still live with your parents?

I'm so glad I never had children. Genetic mental illness, childhood trauma, yada yada yada. But I ALSO feel like I'm missing out. I never know if I've made the right choice about something. The grass is always greener. Maybe I'll be 80 and devastated at not having kids.

Pete, give it a rest with the paternity stuff.

I was a kid once. Don’t need one

R117 if it helps to know, I live with my grandmother (Mum’s mum) as her live in help, my parents have their own place a county over. My dad is just staying with us for a week or so because it’s closer to a construction site job he’s overseeing and he wants to save on fuel (or, so he says—reckon it’s more that he wants my Mum to stop nagging him about smoking and betting on sports).

Perhaps you missed this context, but I’m female, and he comes from a history of family violence/abuse (house full of drunks/guns/attack dogs) and towers over me, so idk what you expect me to do to stand up to him. It wouldn’t be safe or appropriate for me to try it physically. He has a hair trigger temper, and I’m pretty sure undiagnosed autism too, as I said before—that’s not a good combo in a man. I sympathise that he had a hard upbringing and can’t help the way he is, so I don’t expect him to be all hugs and kisses and unlimited unconditional support, but at the same time I can’t make his past my present/future problem any more.

As I also said in a previous post, were I his son with all the attendant 6ft+ of height and more muscle mass & testosterone, then yeah, I might have tried before now to spark him out. But I can’t very well do that in my physical form.

As for assertively talking back or telling him what time it is, I’ve tried that several times in the past, and every time he either stonewalls me for weeks and months (upsetting my Mum & sister as well as me), calls me a frigid bitch or a dyke loser or something (couple of times in public/with company over the house), or he just takes his anger out on my Mum and punishes her emotionally.

So again, what am I supposed to do to change or fix the dynamic? Daddy is in his mid 60s and set in his ways to say the least, so I don’t hold out much hope for a drastic mindset shift on his part. Tbf he’s started being incrementally and sporadically nicer to me since C0VID, maybe in the hope I’ll nurse him in old age...which is fucked up. He’s one of those fathers who stuck around and paid basic child support and never hit his daughter, so he thinks that bare minimum makes him a roaring success.

While my Mum is around and won’t leave or divorce him (and she never will), he’s got me over a barrel and knows there’s nothing I can do to force change, unless I call his bluff and just abandon my entire family who are all we have left (one side estranged long ago, and tbh I don’t have many friends to replace them). What if I walk away and something happens to him in the next five years? I’ll have thrown away my relationship with my Mum/sis/cousins etc. for nothing, and will be alone in the world. And right now my grandmother needs us, too, it’s not fair on her to bring family drama to her home and life.

Jesus you need not only financial but mental independence.

^R122 do you have 100k to give me and the number of an excellent therapist I can see at no charge? No? Then yelp it down.

Can’t stand privileged people telling those without means what they should and shouldn’t do. Your options aren’t everyone else’s options.

Hon, it sounds like all you can do about your emotionally-unregulated, undiagnosed-autism father is to distance yourself emotionally, if you can't distance yourself physically. Accept that he can't be what you want him to be, I mean deliberately stifle the hope that I know is there (it's there in everyone), because he isn't what you want him to be, he just is what he is.

Accept his disapproval as inevitable in a limited mind that refuses to change, and sorry, but don't get too excited if he shows tiny signs of kindness. They do NOT mean he's changed, because as you said yourself, he can't change who he is.

No. Absolutely not.

I want kids but only if I make enough money to all their needs.

[quote]As for assertively talking back or telling him what time it is, I’ve tried that several times in the past, and every time he either stonewalls me for weeks and months (upsetting my Mum & sister as well as me), calls me a frigid bitch or a dyke loser or something (couple of times in public/with company over the house), or he just takes his anger out on my Mum and punishes her emotionally.

And so he stonewalls you for weeks. Big fucking deal. He upsets your mother and sister. He's using that to control you and will always do it as long as you allow it. You're still looking for approval you'll never get. Just stop. You don't need counseling. Everything you need is right here. Take your life back.

I never had a child because abortion was legal and I could afford it. And if you can’t deal with that you can fuck on back to the Lebensborn.

I have two wonderful sons. They are caring, kind, and successful.

For me, dogs are better.

R130 At least you can just leave dogs at a gas station if you get bored of them. Do that with kids and people get really uppity for some reason.

R131 if I saw someone abandon their dog at a gas station, or anywhere, I would lose my shit at them. And provided the dog in question weren’t dangerously aggressive or very sick, I’d take it home with me.

Children would only have gotten in the way of my erotic lifestyle.

Spare me the peremptory questions, OP.

And as to missing out:

No.

[quote]Why don't you have children?

Apparently it involves vaginas.

R132 You’re beautiful.