Conservative Pundit Can't Define ‘Woke’ During Interview About Her Book On Wokeness

But Mandel was then rescued by the program’s conservative co-host, Robby Soave, who stepped in to say, “It’s definitely something that you know what it is when you see it.”

“to create hierarchies of oppression.”

And yet conservatives always scream about how white men are so oppressed

"It's more of a feeling, really."

Isn't this similar to that famous quote by that one Supreme Court justice who said he knows what porn is when he sees it, but can't otherwise define it?

Yes, R3. See R1.

When you're accustomed to privilege, equality feels like oppression.

'Nuff said.

Not as bad as when a Supreme Court nominee couldn't define 𝑤𝑜𝑚𝑎𝑛 though she will be expected to spend decades ruling on laws specific to them

[quote]… and said it had to do with reorganizing society “to create hierarchies of oppression.”

“Reorganising” unequivocally implies that the hierarchies of oppression already exist, favouring others. “Woke” is a threat to those who are already and have long been at the top of those hierarchies. Uh huh.

[quote] But Mandel was then rescued by the program’s conservative co-host, Robby Soave, who stepped in to say, “It’s definitely something that you know what it is when you see it.”

Funnily enough, that’s how I identify small-mindedness, fascist, un-fickable, AND racist.

Wokism is generally defined as the view that society is currently and DELIBERATELY structured to oppress non-straight white males, that implicitly believes that all groups are equal when it comes to the distribution of ability, interest and talent, that structural discrimination and bias is the sole reason for all inequalities and disparities in outcomes, and the way to remedy these disparate outcomes is “equity,” which involves having proportional representation of groups, regardless of skill, talent or ability.

Sorry, I know this is slightly off-topic, but that conservative co-host, Robby Soave, has major gayface.

R10, he’s a libertarian.

And yes, he does have major Gayface. He was a gay ally in college.

R10, Robby Soave has a wife.

But he just strikes me as the kind of guy who’d be hooking up with guys if he were single.

Do you think he hooked up with a guy in college?

Does he have an open marriage with his wife?

R12 Yeah he looks freaky. Those buttoned up conservative types are always into crazy shit.

[quote]...and the way to remedy these disparate outcomes is “equity,” which involves having proportional representation of groups, regardless of skill, talent or ability.

Ding, ding, ding...we have a loser. This is why woke will never, ever work. Equity is unfair where equality is fair. No one with a brain is going to buy the proposition that the only way to true equality is through forced inequality. "Just let us, the repressed (self-defined), be racist or sexist toward you, the privileged (defined by us), for a while, then we'll call it even. We'll decide when we're done. Wait, why aren't you listening anymore?!" Yeah, that's genius.

"He was a gay ally"

Lolz.

R14 for hundreds of years, society has been structured on the assumption/pseudo-science that white straight males are the smartest and most capable. Sorry, that's bullshit.

You can’t touch it, you can’t smell it, and no, you can’t taste it. You don’t have to hear it or see it either.

Rico “Soave”.

Well...she tried.

It’s because she didn’t write the book!

Gayface Robby Soave. Click to enlarge.

Claiming someone is *woke* is just a convenient way of denying or not accepting you’re being an asshole.

Oh, look - a cockroach Muriel didn't manage to get rid of @R23!

Well, let's see...

Mendel has been an idiot for quite a while.

[quote]As it happens, I spoke to Mandel a few months ago for another story I was reporting, and she hesitated then too:

[quote]Aymann Ismail: What do you mean by wokeness?

[quote]Bethany Mandel: So, in terms of children, it’s the idea of turning them—I think my best example is the board book Antiracist Baby, and it is … hold on. I have it. I have the text somewhere. The idea that you cannot be neutral, that this is a fundamental reshaping of our society. In the lens of anti-racism, in the lens of sexuality, that is not what we’ve traditionally thought. It’s the idea that we’re trying to turn our kids into modern warriors in these political battles about CRT and about sexuality and climate change and all of these things.

“What does ‘woke’ mean to you?” “….🤯….”

That interviewee had a momentary brain fart. It happens.

However this group of young women cannot (or will not) define what a woman is:

They have been silenced out of fear of being cancelled.

Violent men is dresses have ripped out their tongues:

You keep trying R28.

Meanwhile...

Oh, bless your heart, r28. Well, you tried, lol.

Replace it with something like "clutch" and it would make just as much sense.

Violent men in dresses (transwomen) have also raped young women.

This short film looks at the thousands of women who have been hurt by men in dresses:

This site is infested with trolls spewing garbage talking points workshopped by the far right.

[quote]There are years of media, legislative and tactical strategy outlined in those emails; there are conversations in which some of the most well-known TERFs in the movement coordinate strategy and brainstorm talking points. It is a playbook for how anti-trans organizations operate and a compressed history of how the TERF movement joined forces with the Christian right to create the current moment.

[quote]That interviewee had a momentary brain fart. It happens.

Asshole, her entire public existence is based on profiting off of the demonization of "woke" and getting shits frothing-at-the-mouth, but per usual, you psycho, anti-trans loons want to take yet another thread and take your usual, steaming shit. What she did was tantamount to a doctor not being able to tell you what a stethoscope does, except in her case, her definition would be absolute bullshit even if she did define it.

I have issues with trans, but boy do i fucking loathe you assholes with a passion far more.

^ And of course "a momentary brain fart" doesn't explain why this is the second time (that we know of) that she sputtered some word salad nonsense in answer to the very simple question of what SHE MEANS by "woke."

What’s the big deal? Nobody can define “woman,” either.

💁

You're truly a glutton for punishment, R36, like every little MAGA foot soldier who shows up here. Not only does Muriel need to send you a computer virus but you need to be fucked by a dildo with razor blades attached to the head.

DL was better without the non-subscribers. I'll never give money to a site that turns a blind eye to anti-trans trolls, no matter how obvious and idiotic they are.

She had a momentary brain fart. But it's also a word that is part of an ideology that requires more explanation than a couple of sentences in a news broadcast.

An example of woke brain-rot renders those afflicted with wokeness unable to answer simple questions such as: What is a woman?

Here are a couple more academic definitions of woke:

I wonder which one of her gurus' talking points the troll is spewing: Matt Walsh, Brandon Straka, Charlie Kirk, Andy Ngo,..

Huh, r37?

That seems kind of harsh.

I wonder if 37 is a chick-with-a-dick rapist?

R37 just threatened violence.

I think he's going light on r36, r41.

Oh, and @perftronnie (Maja) is also our Froy/Madden troll!

If you're pushing a diet telling people carbs are bad and someone asks "Explain why carbs are bad" and you can't, WTF would anyone take you seriously?

It's not a "brain fart" when it's the very core of your agenda and you can't immediately explain it. And she was given time and she still couldn't.

"Academic definitions" of decades-old slang from a community of people these MAGAt assholes do not communicate with unless they are forced to.

Awwww, poor, widdle triggered snowflake at r42.

R44 Did you have a stroke?

R47 Is joking about raping women.

Gender ideology is the ideology of rapists.

When OANN decides "based" or "crunk" are the new panic terms, will we get a barrage of word-salad "academic definitions" of them as well?

It's always fascinating to be there for a full manic meltdown.

And it's also our Miles Helzer/Connor Jessup troll. That's one full bag of obsessive crazy!

And the Chandler Massey troll!

[quote] And the Chandler Massey troll!

Chambo! Chambo!

Chambo!

This bitch is so dumb.

Someone is having a psychotic break in this thread.

They keep listing off imaginary, or possibly real commenters from years past, who they think are here now.

R34/R38, what is the definition of 'woman'?

Here's a definition of woke:

Jamie Lee Curtis named her Oscar a "they/them" in honor of her sissy-porn sick troon son.

Wokeness has infected her brain.

What's *your* definition of woman, r58?

I’m not r58, but the definition of “woman” is so simple anyone can say it:

Adult, human female.

There, that’s it. We all know it.

The left want to obscure, dilute & diminish the meaning. But we need a word hat describes the class of humanity who have the reproductive organs that give birth.

Farmers know this. It’s basic biology.

I guess R34/R38 have decided to not share their definition of woman for some reason. What could that reason possibly be?

MAGAts and SJWokesters = the only two groups of people that can't figure out definitions for simple words.

Oh, look another sock puppet @R61. You're still blathering here, @perftronnie?

What language is R63 speaking in his damaged brain?

Go twist your knickers over One Direction, or Miles Helzer, or pitbulls... just fuck off.

Woke-ism is liberalism mixed with narcissism.

Just like Trump-ism is conservatism mixed with narcissism

Yawn... Now you're trying bothsiderism? In the best Russian tradition.

Isn't if funny that neither of those groups can see it, though, R66?

R67, you don't seem to understand what bothsiderism is.

[quote] Those buttoned up conservative types are always into crazy shit.

R13 Are you into it as well? Or do you despise it?

Also R66 doesn’t understand what “liberalism” is.

In case you have a therapist, tell them to up or lower your dosage. Whatever this is, it's not working for your maniacal obsessions.

“It means people who don’t vote for me get to live. Not my choice, but we’ll blame the media. We should be able to do whatever we want and not be told otherwise. But only if we’re old, white and wealthy.”

R34

[quote] i fucking loathe you assholes

[quote] Woke-ism is liberalism mixed with narcissism.

It's important to signal your virtue as well as your woke-ism.

The bothsiderism here is off the charts.

Look, conservatives want to destroy our democracy, make homosexuality illegal, give Russia any country it wants, and create a Christian nation.

Liberals are overly woke and sense perhaps more oppression than there actually is -- or maybe they're right about oppression.

Not quite the same.

[quote] sense perhaps more oppression

They feel it because they have superior senses.

🤯🤯🤯

[quote]I’ve written posts about Bethany Mandel before; she’s the ‘point person’ for testing the latest terrible right-wing ideas before her bigger-megaphone comrades start using them. If they flop (she was responsible for the ‘If it means I can take my kids to the park, call me a grandma-killer’ tweet at the start of lockdowns in 2020), she can take a year or two off, because her husband is a high-dollar think tank official and she’s technically ‘a full-time, stay-at-home mommy’. For the same reason, anyone who contradicts her wildly dishonest narratives… is being mean to a mother, which just goes to show all lie-berals hate kids, also the flag and probably apple pie.

A definition

I have a problem with the word "woke" itself. Shouldn't it be "awakened"?

You could argue that DeSantis is imposing “identity politics” (white/hetero privilege), thought policing, and racism (wtf is “NeoRacism”?), using “statist/corporatist (his war on Disney)/cultural enforcement.”

No shit. “Identity politics” for straight white males is also called “politics”

Hey "Biology 101" who I assume was named after one of his failures, this " a Supreme Court nominee couldn't define 𝑤𝑜𝑚𝑎𝑛" is a right wing meme.

Like most rightwing memes it's a lie.

When asked, she responded that she would not define what a woman was because that was not her job. She explained pretty clearly what her job entailed and it wasn't taking bait from a rightwing piece of shit.

So she shut that asshole down, and like any other loser Republican, he pulled Trump style lie right out his ass.

And you gladly inserted it in yours.

Why don't you put a plug in it, liar?

R79 I've never seen that definition before but Communist Intersectional Critical Theory sounds about right.

My old jogging club had a bunch of 20-something "queer" women worm their way into leadership positions within the group. They set up a DEI committee and then stated some nonsense about the running club being rooted in a history of racism, or some shit.

When I jogged with this chapter of Frontrunners, it was a laid-back social club for gay men and lesbians. We would meet up for a jog twice a week then go out for scones and coffee after the run. And we would usually have a potluck once a month. Pretty standard stuff.

Then these corporate-climbing 20-something "queer" bitches joined and implemented the DEI regime. I have no doubt they did it with the sole intent of padding their corporate resumes.

What was chilling about their statement on the website is this: There is a "report" button where members can report instances of microaggressions to the DEI committee. What the hell happened to it being a casual, friendly running club? Complaining to a group of 20-something queer straight sluts, if someone looks at you the wrong way, is the 2023 version Soviet-era snitching on neighbors.

Like everything else that used to belong to gay men and lesbians, this is just one example of the letters to the right of LGB taking over what used to be ours.

"I know it when I see it" is what they used to say about obscenity and porn isn't it?

And those laws about banning obscenity have been so wildly inconsistent and arbitrary specifically because of that ambiguity.

"Wokeness" will never mean anything except as an excuse for fascists to ban whatever they want. The GOP are wannabe kings, ready to hand down arbitrary judgements with their mercy dependent on whether they've had a good BM that day.

"Wokeness culture killed my dog!"

Think before you speak. If your whole brand is built on being anti woke, and you can't come up with a precise answer of what woke means, you're an imbecile, a village idiot. And the only people stupider are the ones giving their money to said village idiot.

It’s a meme because it’s true, r83. And the right are going to milk it for all its worth because it makes the left look like fools.

It truly is shameful that we have a SCOTUS judge unable & unwilling to define “woman.”

R88. Don't mistake unwilling for unable.

She wasn't taking the bait from right-wing morons because she's not a schmuck. If she thought that was a serious question I'm sure she would have answered.

It wasn't. It was bait to have her on the record saying something stupid so that Fox could play the soundbite until their little brains exploded from constant orgasms.

Oh, bullshit, r89. She refused to answer because she’s afraid the trans mob will threaten her like they do JK Rowling. Unlike JKR, Brown-Jackson can be cancelled.

How can she protect women’s rights if she doesn’t know what a woman is?

The Dems have boxed themselves into a corner thanks to their own misogyny & homophobia.

We will lose everything because of this T fever.

T ideology has been a very effective Trojan Horse.

Oh shut it R90. Nobody is buying your Trans panic bullshit except trolls and morons.

Only one group is stripping away gay rights and those are the GOP whilst in bed with religious fanatics and neo-Nazis calling for our deaths.

R91 We can fight both at the same time.

We've been fighting the likes of Jerry Falwell and his ilk for decades. And we won the culture war in the 90s and 2000s. Gay men and lesbians had wide-spread acceptance. Even now, the majority of the GOP support gay marriage.

But this gender shit, non-binary nonsense, DEI, and 68 genders is rightfully putting off normal people in the middle of the political spectrum.

Normal people are sick and tired of being lectured. Wokeness is a regressive ideology and isn't moving society forward. It is the opposite of being progressive.

And in regards to film, The Critical Drinker spells out why the concept of "updated for modern audiences" is woke nonsense:

False, r91.

This is a medical scandal. The second anti-gay plague I’ve seen in my lifetime.

We are in the midst of an atrocity.

It’s impossible to change sex…yet children are being experimented on. Nobody cares because the kids are likely gay.

Anyone who supports drugging, mutilating & sterilizing children should be ashamed of themselves.

Snap the fuck out of this insanity!

R92. Yes, this is truly what victory looks like.

Nothing to see here.

Want to talk about hurting kids, let's not forget this little gem.

R95 What you're not grasping is that this is a reaction to the gender shit.

And you know that Congress passed a law enshrining gay marriage in law. But the facts don't matter to you because you're a black transwoman who is on a gay site trying to make us believe that gender ideology is somehow linked to gay men and lesbians.

R97. I don't give a shit about gender ideology.

I give a shit about who's taking our rights away and using gender ideology as an excuse, and it ain't Democrats.

And the "reaction" excuse is pure bullshit. It's gay panic excuses all over again. "Something happened and now we HAVE to have this disproportionate and horrific reaction and be completely absolved from it. It's not our fault because they started it!"

That's the logic of a child. Or in your case, a Russian/right-wing troll, probably straight as an arrow, infiltrating this site to stir up hatred and sow division so Desantis, or whoever your messiah is this time, can "save" us all.

You can ”thank” the trans for that, r94 / 96.

Not those of us who wanted to drop the T a decade ago.

T is a brutally effective Trojan Horse.

Why are you force teaming homosexuals with homophobes who want us to mutilate & sterilize ourselves? 🤔

[quote]We've been fighting the likes of Jerry Falwell and his ilk for decades.

Not anymore. The anti-trans brigade is with them.

[quote] I don't give a shit about gender ideology.

Burn the witch! Burn the witch!

Despite the repeated lie that trans rights are somehow turning off or weakening support from good salt of the Earth Americans...

So, r100? The Ts are with pedos & rapists. It’s a crazy world.

R99. The amount of projection from you trolls is incredible.

You claim to want to disconnect gender ideology/trans from gay people, yet you're the one claiming that trans has anything to do with a bill seeking to ban SAME-SEX marriage. Which it doesn't because trans isn't mentioned at all.

And of course, you claim to be homosexuals but are more than happy to team up with homophobes calling us abnormal, threatening to kill us, and pushing conversion therapy on us.

How about a vote instead of a poll, r102?

Or even a civilized debate?

R103. No they aren't.

You're confusing the T for Christians. The priests carry a CROSS, not a T.

I agree with your first sentence, r104. But it applies to your last sentence.

TRAs are the homophobes calling us abnormal, threatening to kill us, and pushing conversion therapy on us.

They want to drug & mutilate gender nonconforming children. They are the very definition of Trojan Horse & you need to pull your head out of your ass.

It’s impossible to change sex. Anyone born male will die male. Women require & deserve privacy from men. That includes men who “identify” as women. In fact, it especially includes men who identify as women as they are mentally ill.

R105, a vote? How about the last 3 election cycles? The press has been screaming that trans support would kill Dems at the polls and the exact opposite happened.

Hell, even Trump in 2016 was pretending to support trans rights.

Anyway, as much fun as it is to call out the lies and bullshit of the right-wing anti-trans trolls, back to this asshole:

Yes, r106, there are a lot of pedos on the planet. They tried to infiltrate gay rights in the 1970s but we successfully pushed back.

Unfortunately, thanks to the likes of you, pedos are now not only welcomed in the “queer community, they are championed.

No fucking thank you.

R107. Nah it doesn't.

But keep saying "Trojan Horse" until you're blue in the face. I'm sure Odysseus would be very proud.

Are you kidding, r108?

Thanks to T bullshit, asshole Desantis could be our next President.

That’s a funny comment, r111, coming from someone who believes men are women. 🤣

R112. I didn't realize you could see the future. So when does Desantis announce his candidacy? And how much does he win the nomination by?

Oh and could I have next week's Lottery numbers too? Thanks a bunch.

R113. You're thinking of Tiresias, not Odysseus.

Though R112 could keep them company by the sounds of it.

Of course you lack reading comprehension, r114.

You’re unable to defend T ideology because it’s indefensible. It’s a lie. It requires faith in a gendered soul. It’s delusional.

R116. Somebody's certainly delusional.

And it's hard to believe in a soul when you chat with people who so clearly lack one.

It's hilarious that R112 thinks you can pin DeSantis possibly being elected president (still a far off possibility) on trans, when his support is among racists and gay-haters and he's getting the push from the press because he's a less crass (not really) version of Trump. He's using the same GOP playbook as all the ones before him, repackaged with shiny new pejoratives and scapegoats.

Anyway, do keep up:

Let's take a look at how these anti-trans trolls get into the same bed with anti-Semites and neonazis. Just Google "Jennifer Bilek + neonazis"

^ Oh no, that's just pure coincidence. Just like it's pure coincidence that the anti-trans laws are coming from the same folks pushing the anti-abortion laws, and they are supported by the most vicious garden-variety bigots. No, this is just a little bit of fascism targeted at only those who "really" deserve it. That can't possibly backfire, right?

[quote]And you know that Congress passed a law enshrining gay marriage in law.

No it doesn't. But when the religious zealot wingnut majority on SCOTUS guts even the limited protections in that law, and one of the dissenters is the justice who refused to be baited with the "define a woman" bullshit, how will you adjust your narrative to still blame trans then?

R117, is it possible to change sex?

Mandel is a disgusting cunt. She mocked guys lining up to get a monkey pox shot, screeched online about her precious cunt droppings needing to wear masks to save worthless older people, and bragged about getting a man fired from his job at a grocery store. Vile sick individual.

Dumbvida/Attmay/Perftronnie, it's time to adjust your meds and manage your psychotic breakdown.

Let's take a look at how these TRA trolls get into the same bed with pedos, rapists & murderers.

Just google trans pedo. You’ll want to bleach your eyeballs after, but it’s important to actually see the truth behind the delusion.

There's nothing "pundit"-like about that dumb cunt. She's just a right wing uber-Karen.

Right-wing trolls: Trans are costing Dems elections!

Reality:

[quote]Perhaps more significantly, LGBTQ+ candidates won at record-setting numbers. In 2018, the first year dubbed the “rainbow wave,” more than 400 queer candidates appeared on ballots nationwide, according to the Victory Institute, which works to elect LGBTQ+ officials. This year, 1,065 showed up on ballots across the country and 340 secured wins. Sean Meloy, vice president of political programs at the LGBTQ Victory Fund, which also works to get queer candidates elected, attributes some of that success to younger voters. “Generation Z and millennials came out at much higher numbers this year,” Meloy said. “Those are also the two generations that identify the most as LGBTQ people, who have the most LGBTQ friends. … I think when they’re seeing attacks on their friends or on themselves, there is going to be a consideration in getting out to vote because they want to achieve a world that is better for themselves and for their friends that are LGBTQ.”

Though I'm sure some idiots here will line up to defend her because she hates " THE TRANS!" as well.

R121 I remember you now. You were the train pushing the lie a few days ago where you tried to argue that the law somehow didn't enshrine gay marriage into law.

Do you honestly Dem. lawmakers didn't consider a possible challenge from the SC?

news flash: they did.

please cite your sources to back up your claim, you insane train.

by the way, here's my favorite song about trains:

Oops! Looks like the Republicans' war on woke isn't going so well for them:

A GOP war on 'woke'? Most Americans view the term as a positive, USA TODAY/Ipsos Poll finds

By 56%-39%, Americans say 'woke' means being aware of social injustice, not being overly politically correct.

R128 I haven't discussed the federal law on this site since it passed.

But no, it does not "enshrine" gay marriage into law because it does not require that any state actually permit it. IOW, it does not codify Obergefell. But if all US states and territories outlawed gay marriage, the federal law can't do anything about it. That's not a criticism, it's just acknowledgement of the different roles Congress and SCOTUS are supposed to play with constitutional rights.

And if you think the radical conservatives on SCOTUS give a flying fuck about whether there's a legitimate basis to gut laws they don't like, well no wonder you're willing to get in bed with them.

R131

civics 101:

The Supremacy Clause of the Constitution of the United States (Article VI, Clause 2) establishes that the Constitution, federal laws made pursuant to it, and treaties made under its authority, constitute the "supreme Law of the Land", and thus take priority over any conflicting state laws.

And did you like the song about trains?

^ OK I understand from your rantlings that you are not very smart, so I'll try and break it down.

Obergefell (SCOTUS case): outlawing gay marriage is unconstitutional, so no state or territory can outlaw it. Period. That ENSHRINES gay marriage into law.

Respect for Marriage Act: all states/territories and the feds must recognize a valid (legal) marriage from another state. It does not and cannot say whether any state must permit it. Thus, it does not ENSHRINE gay marriage into law.

The distinction is not complicate, but it is critical, because if SCOTUS overturns Obergefell, many states can AND WILL outlaw gay marriage again. And if SCOTUS also guts RFMA, the recognition requirement goes too. But you don't have to believe me:

[quote]The Respect for Marriage Act will ensure that interracial and same-sex marriages are statutorily protected even if decisions like Loving and Obergefell are ultimately overturned. While it does not require every state to solemnize these unions, it requires all states to recognize and respect any interracial or same-sex marriages that are validly performed in other states. It also ensures that the federal government will treat such marriages as legitimate, which provides crucial protection in areas like immigration, taxation, and access to federal benefit programs.

That "validly performed in other states" requirement is critical. It has to be legal somewhere *first.*

Hopefully that's basic enough for you to follow.

R133 But did you like the song about trains?

You're arguing with an idiot RWNJ troll, R133. It's like trying to explain string theory to a meerkat.

^ The meerkat would fare better than this troll.

R37 is an example of the love, openness and warmth of the trans movement ❤ I love my trans sisters and brothers and my non-binary siblings, they are so kind, gentle and TOLERANT!!! 💗💕💓

[quote]But Mandel was then rescued by the program’s conservative co-host, Robby Soave, who stepped in to say, “It’s definitely something that you know what it is when you see it.”

How did that rescue her?

Thanks R133 for dressing down that troll with actual facts.

DL has really gone to the pits but that made me feel better.

HAHA

Arrived for your evening troll shift, "Avinadav"? Does being a sock puppet on weekends pay extra?

I love that her being an idiot going viral has resulted in more people discovering just how fucking evil Mandel is.

puberty blockers made kids sterile and unable to have orgasms in adulthood

^ Take your wingnut antiscience bullshit elsewhere. The limited research on it so far do not show puberty blockers causing infertility. But they can eliminate or reduce the need for the cross-sex hormones that do.

[quote]Although the treatments are considered safe, they are not risk-free. Most transgenders become infertile as a result of the hormonal switching medications. Estrogens diminish sperm production in males, and testosterone’s cessation of menses can cause polycystic ovaries in women; these changes usually lead to infertility. Some late-pubertal male patients have opted for sperm banking, but equivalent options for women are limited. Egg freezing is an arduous and expensive procedure requiring ovarian hyperstimulation with HCG, akin to women undergoing in vitro fertilization, and not as likely to be successful, especially if the ovaries are immature when GnRH-suppressed.

...

[quote]Among the arguments for using pubertal blockers to gain more diagnostic time is that patients will not need as many cross-sex hormones later in the transition process. Fewer estrogens in patients means a decreased risk of blood clotting and pulmonary embolism; fewer androgens reduces the likelihood of hypertension. Another plus, Spack said, is that most male-to-female adult patients who took GnRH analogues end up with appropriate size breasts for their frame and never feel the need to have further reconstructive surgery.

[quote] I love my trans sisters and brothers and my non-binary siblings, they are so kind, gentle and TOLERANT!!!

More actual science.

[quote]There is no substantiated evidence that GnRHa treatment for CPP impairs reproductive function or reduces fertility. In most girls, gonadal function is restored promptly after cessation of therapy, with subsequent menarche and regular ovulatory menstrual cycles [32, 58, 88]. Using structured interviews among 135 adult women with CPP treated with GnRHa, 61 women with untreated CPP, and 466 controls matched for age, education, marital status, and parity [89], pregnancy was uneventful in 90% of all 3 groups. Unassisted pregnancy rates were similar in GnRHa-treated women with CPP and controls (>90%), while, in this series, untreated women with a history of CPP were more likely to require assisted fertility therapy. In another group of 46 women with CPP (aged 19.0–31.3 years), 71% experienced regular, spontaneous menstrual cycles, with normal fertility and offspring. The menstrual history is reported to be normal in all women previously treated with GnRHa for CPP, except for those with organic causes such as anterior pituitary lesions [56]. The outcomes of 113 pregnancies included 97 uneventful pregnancies with healthy children, 5 elective abortions, and 11 early miscarriages. Limited data exist on reproductive function in males treated for CPP but they include normal serum testosterone [32, 90], gonadotropin concentrations, and semen analysis [90]. Data on paternity rates and fertility are not available.

And absolutely no one objects to more and ongoing research. Kids and adults medically transing are so small in number there is a concentrated push to get as many as possible into clinical trials. Now fuck off.

[quote] there is a concentrated push to get as many as possible

Liliy Contino says they need to get the surgery as soon as possible before this fad subsides.

R144, did you miss the second sentence of your own quoted text? And, the last sentence in your quoted text at R146? You're being delibrately obtuse.

^ Do you not understand that "hormonal switching medications" are not puberty blockers? And did you not see my post about the limited research?

"Puberty blockers cause infertility" is a false statement based on the available evidence. And if you don't understand why, you're not obtuse, just a liar or stupid.

R142, she also wrote some nonsense about befriending Neo-Nazis.

She's just a fucking asshole, like the rest of these grifting shits who make their money off of complete idiots.

R150, what part of the words "puberty blocker" do you not understand? Do you understand how puberty blockers block puberty? To try to separate "puberty blocker" from "hormone" is disingenuous. Puberty blockers have never been used on pubescent adolescents like they are being used now. They were used to delay puberty in children who were too young for puberty but had medical conditions that made them start going through puberty when they were only, say, 7 or 8. The brain development that takes place during puberty is akin to the development during the toddler years. They are fucking with things in ways they DO NOT yet understand.

[quote]We are not sure if puberty blockers have negative side effects on bone development and height. Research so far shows that the effects are minimal. However, we won’t know the long-term effects until the first people to take puberty-blockers get older.

And, you can ask Jazz Jennings how the mini-dick worked out.

[quote]If you have erectile tissue (penis) and think you might eventually want to have a vaginoplasty, talk with your primary care provider or endocrinologist for more information. Vaginoplasty is the surgical procedure that creates a vagina. If you start taking puberty blockers early in puberty you might not be able to have the vaginoplasty surgery that is most commonly used in Canada, later as an adult. There are alternative techniques available, such as the use of a skin graft or colon tissue.

And, who really needs brains or eyes...

[quote] gonadotropin-releasing hormone agonists.

Agonists producing agony.

R153, none of your screeching justifies the false statement that puberty blockers cause infertility.

No one, literally no one, says they are definitively harmless or that more research shouldn't happen. In fact, the only people blocking research are those outlawing it because of course if no one can do it, no one can study it.

So, you're good with them experimenting on children then, R154? And, it's not like they are experimenting with drugs to cure children's cancer on children with cancer. They are giving powerful drugs to children with mental problems to, get this...prevent them from having mental problems. Weak.

Transing kids is the lobotomy of the modern world. It will end in the same way, too. You are on the wrong side.

^ You are an idiot. Can't manage a talking point that isn't bullshit, so just keep moving the goalposts.

Is this tedious troll with the IQ of a turnip still yapping pseudoscience into the abyss? Muriel should put her/him/it into a lunatic troll quarantine, along with Attmay and Dumbvida. Hell, who knows, it might be one of their unmedicated multiple personalities.

This is an abusive conversation.

If her entire job is bitching about wokeness then she should be able to define it. Fuck this "brain fart" shit some of you are pushing.

Un Woke = Bigot

Yes, it's borderline abusive how much the right wing anti-trans trolls keep lying.

Such as R152 who links to an FDA warning about puberty blockers while screeching how they are being used in this whole brand new dangerous way, when in fact per the link (clearly the dumbass didn't bother to read it) explains that the FDA warning is based on a total of 6 cases, only ONE is a trans child, and the rest are for precocious puberty--the old supposedly not dangerous way.

[quote]Five of the six cases which exhibited links between GnRH agonist use and pseudotumor cerebri included patients who were undergoing treatment for central precocious puberty, a condition where the body matures far sooner than expected. One of the cases identified by the FDA involved a patient taking GnRH for transgender care.

R161, it was enough of a clear issue that the FDA added an official warning. They don't do that for shits and giggles. But, I'm sure your desire to pump children full of chemicals to support your political agenda should take precedence.

I love how you morons are attacking science with feelings and acting righteous about it. It's hilarious.

BTW, speaking of science, just wondering...what's your definition of 'woman' and 'man'?

I'll go first. A woman is an adult human female. A man is an adult human male. Your turn, you bunch of science loving geniuses.

[quote]I love how you morons are attacking science

Says the troll who can't read his own links.

5 of those 6 children were on puberty blockers for precocious puberty, which is treated primarily for psychological and social reasons. If you're so worried about putting children's lives at risk, show me anywhere the concern over the last several decades for their use for this purpose, and how the calculation was made that these supposedly dangerous (not really) puberty blockers were worth the risk just so children felt more comfortable about their bodies among their peers.

And since you're so worried about children, I'm sure you can't point to me your similar freakout over the far more dangerous drugs children are prescribed for far less serious reasons. Like Accutane. Or Ritalin. Or Lithium. Or Tylenol.

Actually, you can't, because you're full of shit.

R163 Are you ever not on datalounge? You're always here pushing gender ideology.

Do you even take time out of your day to dilate?

R164. We could say the same about you.

Do you take the time to have normal conversations where the word "dilate" doesn't come up?

That word must just haunt your dreams based on how frequently you use it.

Do us all a favor and find a therapist rather than trying to work out your dilation fetish on here.

This post from the ftm sub-reddit was posted yesterday by a teenager who plans on getting a double mastectomy. She is on the sub complaining about her mom who asked her to watch 3 videos from detransitioners.

She talks about her parents paying for the surgery and she's worried about getting grounded if she goes against the wishes of her mother.

Many in the comments are telling her to "go no contact" with her mom after she gets her parents to pay for the mastectomy.

This literal child is worried about being grounded, and at the same time, is planning to amputate healthy body parts.

This is fucking crazy. How did it get to this point?

And how many of these kids are going to regret cutting their tits and dicks a decade from now?

R166. The parallels with abortion is actually pretty striking.

"Watch these videos about how abortions ruined young girls' lives before you have one!"

What's the point of all this emotional blackmail?

Wokesters are ANTI-MERITOCRACY.

They don't value talent or hard work and believe that people should be hired on the basis of diversity quotas.

All that breeds is laziness and mediocrity, as we have seen in recent years.

God R166. Try to troll a little more subtly.

13 W&Ws on a 30 minute old post this far down a thread like this? So obvious.

I doubt 13 different people have come through this thread in the last 2 hours, let along 30 minutes.

Put your sock puppets away and save them for your late night wank. You aren't fooling anybody.

[quote]If her entire job is bitching about wokeness then she should be able to define it. Fuck this "brain fart" shit some of you are pushing.

She's legitimately mentally ill. She's been well-known on Twitter for years for posting things like "I took my mother off life support before we even knew if she'd survive or not" and writing articles about how we should make friends with Nazis. She was the one who said early in the pandemic that we shouldn't take any precautions at all, because fuck old people, and in response to criticism said "You can call me a grandma killer, I don't care."

She's got about 100 tweets complaining about service people and bragging about getting them fired. Bethany Mandel is just a really shitty person with some insanity mixed in.

"My mother abused me so I abuse my kids in the same way!" - Bethany Mandel, literally

R169

R163, those children are being given those medications after much more testing and for actual medical conditions, not make believe ones. Your argument is that radiation should not be used on cancer patients for whom it is the best treatment or, perhaps a treatment of last resort, because radiation isn't good for healthy people. My argument is that radiation, while dangerous, is sometimes necessary to treat life-threatening illness but should not be used on otherwise healthy people because they are pretending to have cancer.

Also, those children who need dangerous treatments for life-threatening conditions are not being permanently scarred before the age of consent based on "feelings". They are ill. And, who cares what the children who had their brains swell and lost their vision while on puberty blockers were being treated for? It happened and now more and more doctors have no issue shoving those chemicals into more and more adolescent bodies. You're ridiculous.

And also, R163, you forgot to tell me your definition of 'woman' and 'man'? I'm sure that was just an oversight on your part. So, here's another chance for you. We'll wait...

Listen, cunt: if I'm interested in what Matt Walsh or Chaya Raichik have to say I'd go right to the source. I don't need some bargain basement troll to do their bidding. Now, go die in a grease fire.

Oh, gawd, r167 — SHUTTUP.

That’s where you go when confronted with a teen girl wanting a double-mastectomy?

Your brain is a salad. So are your words.

Emotional blackmail is threatening suicide for not having access to the opposite sex bathroom.

Jesus, you TRAs are fucking NUTS. 😳

Sick, sick, sickos — the lot of you.

I’m sure the GOP is working on a standardized definition of woke that will go out with their list of talking points. We will soon hear all the pundits parroting the exact same verbiage on however they decide to define it.

R174 = Dana Rivers, the straight white man who murdered a lesbian couple, their son & then set their home on fire.

Should have been prosecuted for a hate crime, but “trans”

R10 = Head cookie sniffer.

In a weird way, it's informative to have the resident TRA on datalounge. This TRA's behavior is very much in line with other TRAs I've interacted with on reddit.

When confronted with the alarming reddit post at R166 most rational adults look at that scenario and are rightfully horrified. But not the local DL TRA. She's all for it.

It is not normal for healthy teenagers to want to have double mastectomies. And like in a cult, the others in that FtM sub-reddit are cheering her on to do it. The young teenager talks about the operation as if she's going to Disney World. She thinks that cutting off body parts will cure her of anxiety and depression.

She has been so brainwashed, it honestly reminds me of the Heaven's Gate cult. Before that group offed themselves, they all made videos where they talked about how wonderful it will be when they finally kill themselves and ascend to the spaceship. They were so joyful in their resolve to die. Ironically, they too cut off body parts, mostly their penises.

Also, what's effing crazy is that trans activists have wormed their way into unpaid mod positions across reddit, and other social media platforms, in order to promote gender ideology and silence critics through muting, permanent bans, and by nuking subs that are critical of gender ideology.

Their need to control the narrative knows no bounds and is very similar to the DL TRA. She is constantly pleading to "Muriel" to nuke threads and shut down conversation around this subject.

And in almost all gay subs, save one, you will be permanently banned for saying that lesbians don't have penises and gay men don't have vaginas. That's crazy.

The good news is that we've turned a corner. Across the globe, regular people are waking up and pushing back against the nonsense. And the excellent podcast, The Witch Trials of JK Rowling, examines the current moment we're in. In the latest episode, "chapter 5: the tweets" the interviewer talks with Rowling about the tweets that made trans activists froth with rage.

Gender ideology is a new religion. And like any cult/religion there must be a devil. Rowling is the devil to these cultish freaks.

Define "conservative pundit": Fascist Shill

Fun fact: radical anti slavery activists in the 1860s were called "The Wide Awakes."

The kind of people who hate "woke" now, would hate the "Wide Awakes" then.

Just say you wish black people would shut up and stop making you feel guilty.

Just be honest.

R173 still stuck in nonsensical rant mode because they can't read, don't know anything about FDA warnings, and don't understand the risk/benefit ratio of health care.

Don't you know how many FDA warnings have been issued about Tylenol? Don't you know how many cHiLDrEN! have been hOSpITaLIZeD! due to severe reactions and complications from ordinary use of Tylenol? DON'T YOU CARE ABOUT CHILDREN? Why are you letting children continue to be EXPERIMENTED on with this dangerous drug that remains over the counter just to alleviate moderate pain hen there are other pain relievers available??? *

*Since you're dense as fuck, allow me to explain that this is how ridiculous you sound due to your inability to read and comprehend basic info from articles discussing the science.

R179 has gone from making up lies about puberty blockers causing infertility to making up a whole fake story about a stranger based on a post on the internet and pushing crazy conspiracy theories about being surrounded by trans people.

Totally normal, healthy troll behavior.

It’s really weird to see posts like 182 & 183 minimize the dangers of blocking the puberty of physically healthy but mentally unwell children. And then make fun of people who care about kids.

“Woke” was a black term about learning about anti-racism. Black millennials bought into the white narrative that racism was over and we live in a post racial society. Social media and camera phones exposed that it was a lie and understanding racism existing was being “woke”. Enlightened.

And basically after that white people said “what about me” and they raped it with their causes and their right wing parents turned the word into a weapon.

R184 = another troll who can't read.

R181 What’s annoying about racists is they talk and say the same exact shit you can find in an article from the 1800’s.

The idea of racism has never been accepted in the US. Hollywood rewrote the narrative. That’s why the Klan put sheets on their heads because they didn’t want to be exposed.

“I’m not racist BUT …” goes all the way back. It’s not new. White people have no problem being racist, they just have a problem when they’re called out on it.

"Woke" literally means just being aware, in the context of social justice.

Conservatives are such snowflakes.

R186 is an obvious liar. On two counts.

Imagine being such a cretin your tweets violate Germany's hate speech laws.

When conservatives complain about "woke" it's always really about being racist and homophobic. They hate that they can't say the n-word or express their disgust about 2 men being married to each other, so they rally against "woke" and "the woke left" and claim they're being silenced by "the thought police." They want their kids to go to school and learn that slaves enjoyed being slaves and that the US was founded as a White Protestant ethno-state and that the bible should guide our laws and culture. They'll drop terms like "CRT" and "puberty blockers" to inflame their audience, but it's all spin to make themselves sound intelligent when they're just bigots who want to hate on other people openly and receive validation for it. On DL they need to deflect from the homophobia rampant in their point of view so they focus on trans people and use divide and conquer tactics to "drop the T" from "the LGB." But they're the same racist and homophobic bigots that they are in the real world, calling out "wokeness" because they're really mad that they can't be openly bigoted without consequences.

Wrong, r191.

The “woke” are actually in a coma re: the deadliness of T ideology.

^ Of course the trolls keep trying to divert the discussion from the racism to the anti-trans hysteria. Protecting their allies.

Oh, yay…more proof of institutional capture at 193’s link. 🙄

Just what we need.

.......

Pathetic, every last one of them.

It's hard to believe, but in Germany, the crimes of the Third Reich, and the complicity of a vast swath of the German population, was forced into a black hole for almost 2 decades after the war.

It was only until the Frankfurt Auschwitz trials of 1963/4 that the true scope of the state crimes of the Nazi dictatorship became forcibly known to most of the public - and the older people *hated it.

This is what we're going through.

White people are being forced to face up to the crimes of their parents and grandparents and they *hate it.

"Stay Woke" used to be an expression to remind the black community to stay vigilant and aware of racism, oppression and injustice. Now it is used as a general term to describe virtue signaling radical leftist social justice warriors.

No, it has been co-opted by angry white conservatives to describe anything they don't like or makes them uncomfortable.

No one on the Left says "woke" any more.

The manic troll's time would be better spent on its other hobby: stalking barely legal Hispanic twinks on TikTok.

Gotta love TransLounge's ability to turn every single topic into a trans thread... /s

What, r197? No.

You wish.

The truth is: we are in a backlash against gay rights & women’s rights.

Homophobia & misogyny go hand-in-hand.

This is the first time ever in the history of humankind that homosexuals can marry each other, & women can work, vote, & own their own property without a man.

The 1970s were a big deal. We underestimated them.

Today’s kids are ignorant, naive & dangerous. They want to bravely stand up for the underdog. But it’s all just optics. They missed out on the 1960s & 70s. They will never be as brave as those generations.

It's almost like a rally filled with TRAs, isn't it, R201? You obviously haven't been paying attention to the world, dear, if you think it's anyone but the TRAs who turn everything into being about trans.

Oh, new sock puppets! This is shaping to be a Sunday Punch & Judy show!

Go obsess over Troye Sivan - time better spent.

[quote] You obviously haven't been paying attention to the world, dear, if you think it's anyone but the TRAs who turn everything into being about trans.

I have. And no one else cares. It's only here and people like you who obsess about trans, trans, trans. "Can you believe this tranny did this?" "Look at this tranny and what it said?"

This post by R6 is the one who made it about trans, does the poster sound like a TRA to you?:

[quote] Not as bad as when a Supreme Court nominee couldn't define 𝑤𝑜𝑚𝑎𝑛 though she will be expected to spend decades ruling on laws specific to them

As recent posters mentioned, "woke" came up through the black community, and reflected a view through a Marxist lens.

-The working class (proletariat) became aware of what the upper class (bourgeoisie) was doing to them.

-The proletariat started talking more and more about class and shared their views, online especially.

- The Bourgeoisie saw what was happening, said "oh shit" and decided to hijack the "woke" label, redefine it, then make the movement all about "anti-woke".