Sino-Taiwan War is inevitably approaching

Hopefully, they'll destroy each other and we'll be rid of the lot of them!

Why do you want Taiwan destroyed, lunatic r1?

R2, Taiwan, with its relatively tiny population 1/60th of the population of China should not be destroyed, and China should not be destroyed or used as the cause of a world war in the name of defending Taiwan, keeping in mind that MOST governments are corrupt and that even though China’s government does commit human rights abuses, some of the groups that claim to expose those abuses are white supremacist groups if you dig a little below the surface. Some of what they expose is real, but they are selective in what they choose to expose.

What I understand is that the cause of corruption in China is largely the same as the cause of corruption everywhere else- essentially mafia rule by people who have accumulated a tremendous amount of power at the top, and only act in their own interest.

If you want to bring that kind of thing down, expose it in the other places it exists too.

China has gone through the same kinds of things we have in the US - pretending to have a grasp on poverty when in fact things were falling apart.

The US is trying to provoke yet another war via a client state against a geopolitical rival. It's going to regret it

Well regardless of any corruption in China r3, they should not be allowed to simply seize Taiwan because they feel like it and have some neurotic need to drag it into China's bullshit and nonsense government. They should be resisted with force and violence and bloodshed, and there should be no doubt in their minds that force and violence and bloodshed will follow any attempt to seize Taiwan. That is the U.S. policy, and it makes sense to maintain that.

R5, force and violence and bloodshed would destroy Taiwan, which is 1/60 the size of China.

It would be the force, violence, and bloodshed of the United States, and China would not like the result. It is why Taiwan is an independent country right now, and it remains the policy of the United States, for good reason.

R7, for good reason? What, you would go to war leading to mass death and the complete destruction of Taiwan and claim it was for the defense of Taiwan? Whose bloodshed? That of poor people in all countries. Including Taiwan, including the U.S., including China. Would you support it if it cost you your own life, your parents and children’s lives? Going to fight and kill other poor people sent to die by another country?

If you hadn’t insisted on spreading wealth inequality around the world this wouldn’t have happened. No leaders put their own lives on the line.

If China is under the mistaken assumption that it can just grab Taiwan because it feels like it, they should lose that assumption in a hurry. Russia is in the process of learning that, and China should use that knowledge before they make life much harder for themselves.

Focus on their own economy, focus on their own corruption, focus on their own shitty system of government and try to make it less shitty. Don't drag other people into your mess. It's really that simple.

R9, who was it that sold both China and Russia on the idea that unrestrained capitalism was the epitome of moral virtue? Unrestrained capitalism is the system in which the man with the biggest gun wins. You’re still standing by a system of might makes right. That contributes to wars. You would have 100 times more credibility if you renounced that belief and tried to care about people. You can still be in favor of freedom for Taiwan without acting like you are indifferent to death and destruction.

I am not indifferent to death and destruction. But they are a fact of life in the face of war mongering powers. If China wants to have a shitty stupid government, I feel sorry for the people of China, but I would not use war to prevent it. I would use force to prevent them from spreading their shit beyond their own borders and dragging independent nations into it by force. China would and should pay a big price for that nonsense, as Russia (which I suspect is your country) is paying. Keep your shit at home, and in fact, try to be less shitty as a government and a people. Maybe not be assholes at home as an alternative to the idiotic ideal of being assholes abroad.

And yes, capitalism has many flaws, and within the United States we should recognize that and do what we can to make capitalism itself less shitty. None of that involves handing Taiwan over to China because of some weird and neurotic guilt about "spreading capitalism" to China.

Why do they want Taiwan so bad?

I'm still trying to get over the fact that GB ceded Hong Kong to China. Everyone should have known what was going to happen and eventually, it did.

We can't let the same thing happen to Taiwan. China can't go to war with us if we place an embargo on all goods made in China, and it would be great for the American economy if we began to make those goods here anyway. We should not be at China's mercy.

R13, of course we should make goods here, I agree. What I don’t agree with is the hypocrisy. Every time a country is under “sanctions” it might as well be biological warfare, because what you are really doing is creating a situation where the poorest people in the country don’t have food and medicine and therefore die.

Also, the “neoliberal” economic model- which is actually a “might makes right” traditionally conservative model that prioritizes rights of the wealthy- is the dominant economic model endorsed by both Democratic and Republican parties, meaning that neither party is actually trying to do anything meaningful that would prevent corruption at the top and the upward movement of resources to the top.

It’s under that model that wars take place. The wealthy classes don’t have to be directly involved. They’re just getting people to fight for them. A less economically stratified world would be a more peaceful one.

In terms of what to do? Really show you care about free speech and human rights above who has the most power at the moment. Stop trying to crush people who tell you there has been corruption or that there are fundamental problems with the way everything works now. The lack of meaning, lack of community, constant antagonism, inability to communicate openly about issues without huge corporate conflicts of interest rearing their heads.

“UNICEF, for example, estimated that the economic sanctions imposed on Iraq led to the deaths of 500,000 children aged under five from malnutrition and disease.“

[quote]I'm still trying to get over the fact that GB ceded Hong Kong to China. Everyone should have known what was going to happen and eventually, it did.

Handing back HK to China was the agreement from the start. HK was leased. Had the UK gone back on that, it would have been colonialism in a period where the UK is trying to shed its former empire. It certainly raised hackles in Beijing when the UK mooted offering a passport to all HK residents.

R16 Only the New Territories were under lease. Hong Kong Island and the Kowloon Peninsula were ceded in perpetuity to Britain. Though of course there would have been serious practical problems if Britain had tried to retain the ceded land after 1997.

The U.S. was stupid to assist the PRC's economic growth by its policy and business choices.

We should have never become so entangled with China in the first place.

[quote] what about buying fewer 'Made in China'？

Except most crap is made there including all your medication. The reason you don’t pay $20,000 dollars for a 20” television is because it’s made in China. Economies will collapse if they cut them off. Countries should have been investing in bringing domestic manufacturing back. It’s a very tough situation. As Hillary Clinton said, it’s difficult to get tough on your banker.

Japan has offered the US whatever it needs if it decides to hit back at China.

[quote] Why do they want Taiwan so bad?

Why does Putin want Ukraine?

Aren’t we majorly in debt to China, besides all the manufacturing we do there?

Japan is getting ready.

[quote] Except most crap is made there including all your medication.

Aren't there smaller less problematic countries in Asia (or elsewhere) where U.S. manufacturing could be transferred? I think this has already happened to some degree.

Where’s Rachel?

Wrong thread.

R24 Sure, but it's not just one factory. It's a whole series of factories supplying each other. That convenient and efficient supply-chain network in China is what's difficult to duplicate elsewhere.

There are whole towns/cities devoted to manufacturing one product; i.e. resin decorative products, lighting, furniture etc

R24, Vietnam and Indonesia have been chipping away at China's stranglehold on cheaply-manufactured goods.

Apple is moving its production of MacBooks from China to Vietnam.

I can also see India emerging as a real rival to China this 1st-half century. They have a huge population (larger than China now) with a globally-skilled workforce.

R29 I believe Apple is moving iPhone production to India, as well.

R30 Yes, there's some movement -- even Xiaomi has a big mobile factory in India -- but it's marginal. Besides, no matter where the final assembly factory is located, production is still at risk if just one single part is sole-sourced in China.

[quote] Aren't there smaller less problematic countries in Asia (or elsewhere) where U.S. manufacturing could be transferred? I think this has already happened to some degree.

No. The entire world is dependent upon China now. No other country can keep up with that kind of demand. China is huge and cheap. How can you set up another country in time to declare war on them?

[quote] China is huge and cheap.

So is India.

[quote] The entire world is dependent upon China now.

The entire world allowed itself to become dependent upon China.

That can change.

Time to sell my shares in TSMC I guess.

If China seizes Taiwan, they will try to dominate the whole area around the Indian Ocean and the South Pacific. All of the South China sea will be their next goal and then controlling major shipping routes around Indonesia. It's in every pro democratic country's utmost interest to stop them! A world according to China's rules will not be worth living in.

[quote] If China seizes Taiwan, they will try to dominate the whole area around the Indian Ocean and the South Pacific.

Japan is here to make sure that will not happen.

China fears Japan.

From a US standpoint, fostering this development in Mexico and Central America makes the most sense. Nothing will help keep US borders secure more than strong economies in those countries.

finally some completion for the china

There's also the question of infrastructure. China's spent 20-30 years building a very advanced rail and highway system.

Except for online booking, Indian trains still run today pretty much as they did during the Raj. And while India now has about 2200 miles of expressways, China has over 100,000 miles.

Point is, in 2023 the two countries are at very different stages of development.

R3 fails to understand the difference between patriotism and nationalism.

R8 is the type of moron who still thinks NATO is responsible for Russia's war on Ukraine.

Did OP also start the alarmist thread about China spying on your every move via TikTok? Subtly trying to get us to fear China as this unstoppable superpower? China's economy is sputtering and they've hitched their wagon to Putin's limping regime. They're moving in the direction of more authoritarianism, which means more inefficiency and corruption. Any attack on Taiwan will be as rough on China as on Taiwan. They're becoming a pitiful, helpless giant!

r4 was correct,

Most people knew a Russian attack on Ukraine, with the goal to control the whole country and its 45 million people, would be a losing game for Russia. Didn't prevent Putin from making that step.

These absolutist dictators are always full of shit and grandiose ideas that spectacularly fail. Case in point, Mao killing tens of millions of Chinese people during the Great Leap Forward.

Doesn't mean they won't try.

Will all of you be signing up for WW3?

Already looked into it^.

I hope these isn’t a war because I need my cheap stuff!!

R45, one of the reasons Putin invaded Ukraine was that he didn’t get any resistance earlier. That’s why invasions can’t be tolerated or excused. It just ensures that there will be more war and bloodshed down the road, and that it will be worse.

We need WWIII. We need a cleansing for sure.

R50, a “cleansing” meaning class genocide of the poor? That’s who always dies in wars.

And the survivors need to ensure that the hard left and hard right never happen again. ^

“In many countries, income disparities have led to social tensions and a climate of "mutual suspicion".[5] The wealthy and powerful are perceived as having obtained their wealth through "evil arts", while the economically disadvantaged are accused of responsibility for misfortunes of the community.[5] There is also evidence that the causes of social cleansing are linked to globalization and economic liberalization, "to the extent that it has stripped entire populations of their means of subsistence, torn communities apart, deepened economic inequalities and forced people to compete for diminishing resources."[11] Many African communities have been destabilized as communal lands have been privatized, local currency has been devalued, and public services have been eliminated.[13]“

China has not yet attacked Taiwan and I hope never does, since that would be wrong and they would be the aggressor. Any diplomatic means of avoiding war should be taken, though. If you took war off the table altogether as an option, where would that leave you?

It’s a long time coming. We need to arm the Filipinos and Vietnamese (lol the irony) to kick the dirty commies out of the South China Sea.

Then Japan, South Korea, and Taiwan will end the disgusting Beijing regime for good.

Meanwhile we need to join the Filipinos in recognizing the South China Sea as the West Philippine Sea just like we’ve done with “Kyiv” against the long standing, Russian “Kiev.”

“In the name of the Allied cause, the policies imposed by Keynes and Churchill killed more than three million people – many times more than the total number of military and civilian casualties suffered during the entire war by Britain and the US combined. The scale of this tragedy is almost impossible to fathom. If laid head to foot, the corpses of the victims would stretch the length of England, from Dover to the Scottish borders, nearly 10 times over.“

why does it need to take back Taiwan? Taiwan already belongs to China! if you mail anything to Taiwan, you write'------Taiwan, Republic of China.

But I thought Taiwan and China have great relationship and many have business ties so why the fuck are they doing this now?

I don't think Taiwan has oil etc.

I know that Taiwan makes the world's microchips. we're fucked if China invades Taiwan

We need to make sure another Ukraine does not happen. Arm Taiwan to the teeth. Now.

R54, and who is going to hold your own regime accountable? If that’s your stance - to call the poor people who fight against you “dirty commies” - then what might they be right in saying against you? You certainly don’t seem to care about human life, so what is your claim to virtue?

I mean, what Winston Churchill couldn’t actually manage to do was tax the rich. That’s why 3 million people in India starved. You could have fought the Nazis and managed poverty by taxing the rich, but somehow it didn’t happen.

R58, even armed to the teeth, Taiwan still has a population 1/60 the size of China, so maybe you should not be making this conflict about arming Taiwan, and instead about figuring out how to broker a peace between Taiwan and China? Taiwan is at risk by being in between two major powers and has the most to benefit from peace.

“There also is risk for Taiwan if U.S.-China relations grow so tense that every event turns into a major power test of wills. Taiwan’s security becomes more precarious when it is viewed as the central flashpoint between the United States and China, leading each action to become measured as a win or loss for one side or the other.“

It's almost like China thinks they're tougher than they actually are and that they have centuries of military victories worthy of being feared.

We'll see about that, I guess!

Red China ARE dirty commies.

Pet corgi killing, dog boiling, organ harvesting, environment wrecking, Tibet occupying, shoal stealing (Vietnam, Philippines) dirty commies

There’s a reason every one of their neighbors hate them.

The PRC has no redeeming qualities. Taiwan is best China. Taiwan is universally loved by its Southeast Asian neighbors.

R62, you are a racist spouting a bunch of derogatory stereotypes. So this really is about genocide to you then? That’s your plan?

These are the people the paid ChiCom defenders support. Never! West Philippine Sea now!

Racist? You dumb bitch R63. Taiwanese are racial Chinese as are the Singaporeans. Do I loathe them?

No. It’s the filthy communist menace. Look up dog meat factories. Look up the organ harvesting. The camps in Xinjiang. The treatment of the Tibetans. It’s all true.

Go kill a Corgi for your masters!

China has a dog meat festival where tens of thousands of dogs are slaughtered every year!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

FUCK CHINA!

yeah, you better be careful of the Chinese cunts from China. They are thieves and spies and scammers. DO NOT TRUST THEM.

it's a fact that their students are here to steal high tech info from research universities etc etc etc.

China is about to find out what happens when they lie down with Russian dogs and end up with Russian fleas.

Thank you (65) for your words of truth!

From my point of view it is not the average Chinese person who is to be worried about or that is the "enemy" but rather it is the the awful, Communist government that runs that country and controls as much as possible of every facet of life there.

xi jinping is an awful and soulless person who is tantamount to an abomination upon the face of the Earth! He and little vlad (pootie) are despicable and deserve to permanently dwell and suffer in the company of each other in Hell!

There are people who do bad things in any country but the propaganda being spread about China is being spread by believers in the white supremacy movement, and that is a verifiable fact. Is some of it true? I’m sure. Is it also biased? Definitely.

honey, try speaking against the govt of China and see what happens to you. they "disappear" their billionaires and other celebs...i.e. house arrest or "re-education" who knows what the fuck is going on. If you believe what the govt says, you are a damn idiot.

R70, oh, poor China. The heart bleeds for this innocent and well-meaning country. It's almost like you think they're not doing terrible things to the Asian countries, minorities, and ethnic groups around and within Chinese borders.

Be careful who you align with, China. Bitch.

The Chinese government has set up 32 police “service stations” around the world, including one in New York, to monitor and coerce Chinese nationals living abroad to return to China, according to a new report.

R71, and you can’t believe what the US government says either. There were genocidal racists in the Trump administration.

Look! The relativist on the 50 Cent Army payroll! R70

R75, you do realize that accepting the value of all human beings, as well as acknowledging your own flaws, is what counteracts racism and classism?

R76, great advice. You should forward that to the CCP.

Let's start by limiting China's access to chip manufacturing technology.

It’s not inevitable. Stop stirring the shit.

It's definitely a lot more complicated for China now with the AUKUS military alliance.

Place Taiwan under a US-nato EU defence umbrella immediately. There must not be a repeat of Ukraine

Taiwan if they must will go out swinging. They've got an heroic fighting spirit.

Taiwan already belongs to China. When you mail something to Taiwan, it says R.O.C. republic of china.

so what's there to fight about?

Democracy.

A lot of history here that needs to be learned if one is to understand the situation.

R83, Taiwan is the Republic of China. China is the People's Republic of China. Different goverments. Both claiming to be the legitimate China.

Vietnam hates China and has done some military exercises with the US military in the past.

You cannot be that stupid, R83. Unless you’re an American.

The issue of Taiwan is complex. Long before any Chinese people lived in Taiwan there were aboriginal people. (Not unlike the Native Americans who settled the western hemisphere before Europeans arrived). Chinese people from the mainland nearest Taiwan began arriving about 600 years ago, partly to flee various Chinese regimes. On the basis of Chinese people living there, the Qing (Ching) dynasty claimed Taiwan starting about 1650. They encouraged more Chinese people to go there and settle. But in 1895 the Qing Dynasty lost a war with Japan and ceded the island to Japan. It remained under Japanese control until the end of WWII. As Mao began his revolution against Chiang Kai-Shek, and took over more and more of the mainland, Chiang Kai-Shek fled with his loyal regiments and a fairly large contingent of Han Chinese people to Taiwan. From there, he claimed that his was the legitimate government of all of China, and the US agreed. In the 1970s and early 1980s, the US government made overtures to mainland China, who used the notion of "one China" which we had agreed was "a thing" in our support of Kai-shek against Taiwan. In essence, the communist government said that if the US recognized them as the legitimate government of mainland China, it was obligated to recognize that Taiwan was part of China.

I think China recognizes that Taiwan has better educational standards, better infrastructure, and a higher standard of living than the mainland, without the problems with pollution and other environmental problems. I think they would like to initially create some sort of dual government system on the model of what they worked out with Britain for Hong Kong to reap the benefits of the strong economy and businesses that Taiwan has built up over the decades. Unfortunately, the entire world has seen how that turned out. Moreover, the largest part of the population in Taiwan is not northern, Mandarin-speaking Han Chinese, but southern Chinese people from the provinces of Fujian, who over the centuries have developed their own dialect, closely related to Fujian dialect, but unrelated to Mandarin. That part of the population feels no affinity for China and doesn't think of itself as "Chinese", nor has it ever agreed to the idea that Taiwan was ever a part of one China.

I don't think China wants to commit to an all-out war against Taiwan. Americans don't know this, but China started and then essentially lost a war with Vietnam in the late 1970s. It was humiliating for the Chinese, and highly dispiriting to the young people who fought in the war. Vietnam was a larger country numerically than Taiwan, but much poorer. Moreover, many Chinese have now visited Taiwan as tourists and many Taiwanese have gone to China to assist with economic development and to help run international businesses that had preexisting relationships with Taiwan. I think that the soldier-age people of both nations would be very unmotivated to fight, sort of like the Russian soldiers who, once they got to Ukraine and realized that what they'd been told was propaganda, and lost their will to fight. Both nations are now losing population rapidly. They have been below replacement level in births for several years. Soon their soldier-age people will have to be employed to support the rapidly growing population of senior citizens.

After defeating the US, Vietnam turned right around and whupped China's ass. It's an amazing country

With the way things are going, another world war seems inevitable. Everything is in place for it. Russia, China vs the world, with other countries deciding who to team up with.

The world is not a movie, R82. Geopolitics is a little more complex than what gets served up at your local multiplex.

R81

Taiwan has never been part of the PRC, and when Japan gave Taiwan back there was no specific identity to which Japan gave the island back to.

Also, the U.S. never agreed to China's claim of Taiwan.

The way agreements and acts were signed over the years and decades, it can very well be interpreted that Taiwan is an independent autonomous country.

China just tries to bully everybody into accepting their version of one China.

The defeated government of China (you can liken it to former Afghanistan gov but they aren't lucky enough to have an island to flee to) fled to Taiwan, which used go be a United Nations trust territory/Island. so we got two China(A Communists' China and a liberal China ), the status has changed since Taiwan achieved its demographic reform in 1991 and the islanders have formed their own unique identity. The western world, however, neglected the existence of 'two China' and shut down Taiwanese people's reasonable demand for self-determination, kowtowed to Beijing regime.

Macron is Xi Jinping's white bottom slut now. He talked submissively when he was visiting CCP's officials in Guangzhou,China. Many Chinese Netizens mocked him for being a leader of a poor country and has to beg China for commercial corporations. Shame on Macron, Shame on France.

China releases chilling video showing how it would bombard Taiwan in an invasion as it completes massive wargames around island and declares itself 'ready to fight'

R97 where did you see this

Japan -- the world's biggest troll of China and a historical thorn-in-their-side -- is not fucking around. They are amping up.

China must be encircled by enemies in Asia and their chipmaking abilities curbed.

It's as easy as 1,2, 3:

1. Reintroduce the Chinese Exclusion Act.

2. Deport all non-citizen Chinese as hostile aliens and confiscate their property in the US.

3. Make preparations to intern Chinese-Americans in the event of war.

That is all.

If we stick to that, we will prevail.

R101, the entire continent of Asia would probably be very happy with that scenario.

R83 - I can hear you typing from Guangzhou!