Why was Jackie Kennedy considered a great beauty?

When was she considered a great beauty? She was a fashion icon and a first lady. People speak of her style, poise and grace but I've never heard a single person call her beautiful.

Consider her three predecessors from the previous quarter-century as First Lady: Eleanor Roosevelt, Bess Truman (pictured L), and Mamie Eisenhower (picture R).

Then you tell me.

I always thought Lee was much prettier

Why do DLers start threads with straw man statements. She was never considered "a great beauty".

I was in my teens in the 80s and it was probably around then that I started seeing pics of Jackie. I thought she was very odd looking as well and I wondered if she had some strange facial deformity. I know that sounds mean and I wasn't being judgmental at all (I'd be the last person, I was teased a lot as a kid), but I'd never seen someone with eyes set so far apart. I did know she was well-regarded though.

Op's photo reminds me of another great beauty.

I've always thought that of the two wives of the men running for president in 1960, Pat Nixon was at the time actually the prettier, if Jackie was the more glamorous and sophisticated.

Daddy Black Jack had the wide face. He was undeniably handsome, however.

Jackie was pretty.

Pat looks like Ronald McDonald in that picture.

If she'd been prettier, she wouldn't have need to go on assistance.

Marella Agnelli was "marketed" as a great aristocratic beauty. Meh.

I bet Jackie had some sex tricks in her repertoire. Metropolitan New York debs of her era were not celebrated for being prudes. Gianni probably had some good fucks. Onassis too.

Trim, feminine, youthful and well groomed.

Her goal in life was to be attractive to men, a goal realized.

Jackie's goal in life was NOT to be attractive to me. That's something she did because her mother trained her and insisted she marry BIG money. I don't think Jackie spent many years of her life, if any, preoccupied about being pretty for men.

Even as an adult Jackie Kennedy had the look of an EMBRYO growing in the womb.

^^She was certainly all of those things r13. But to me, her extremely far apart eyes were offputting.

R6- Were discussing Homo Sapiens

NOT

NEANDERTHALS

She was one of those people that has a body that is perfect for designer clothing, like a model. Everything looked chic on her. She was not a classical beauty but neither are moat runway models.

She was no Eleanor Roosevelt

I think youth was an important factor here. She was considerably younger than her immediate predecessors, and both her and her husband represented a new, modern era.

[quote] Marella Agnelli was "marketed" as a great aristocratic beauty. Meh.

What do you mean by "marketed"?

I wasn’t alive yet during her reign, but that is exactly how I perceive Camelot and especially her role in its creation. She had a might and a grit for which I give her tremendous credit. Come the Onasis years, it all became quite trashy, but I’m grateful that she bore the weight of being the First Lady that she was ,given what we know now.

R21 I mean thats what the fashion and society media would have understand was her identity, and she herself projected.

Sure she was attractive, rich, born "a princess", well married and well dressed. A great beauty, no. Neither was Jackie. At least Jackie seemed like a person who could have fun.

Here is a more flattering image. Great American style and long, well proportioned legs

It was more about her style it seems.

She had big feet

She was an educated socialite. She was taught poise. She was fluent in French. She was a perfectly turned out product of the post war era.

She was striking and her manner was captivating. I got to know her a bit. She was completely nice to anyone she conversed with- as I got to know her she was quite funny. She made fun of herself and her celebrity. And she had superb taste. I got to know her great friend, mentor and surrogate mother, Bunny Mellon as well. They were very alike- elegant, smart, funny, impeccably nice and exquisite taste.

Jackie was very attractive. Charismatic. She had the basics, and built on them. Her hair and her clothes, her make up everything fit together to create one seamless image. Fashion Icon. And her clothes were literally made for her. She not only had style, she defined it. There were some outfits I like more than others, but she never put a foot wrong when it came to her style and her outfits.

Pat Nixon had no style. She was just an upper middle class housewife type. As Mamie and Bess before her. She was traditional. Middle America. Jackie broke the mold. Nothing traditional about her.

Pat's Inaugural gown was beautiful.

The Kennedys were also the first Presidential couple born in the 20th century.

The camera never managed to capture her beauty, but in real life she was quite stunning

R31, no, it is not. That is a gaudy Mother of the Bride dress if I ever saw one..

"I think youth was an important factor here. She was considerably younger than her immediate predecessors, and both her and her husband represented a new, modern era."

Then Jack was murdered, and we got the highly photogenic Lyndon and Lady Byrd.

Jackie was a major influencer.

Pat's was a matronly gown, but I agree it was a beautiful matronly gown (and remember, when Pat became First Lady, she was at a matronly age, 54).

I don’t think Jack Kennedy was very good looking either, his facial features were squished together. I did see JFK Jr in person in DC once and he was absolutely stunning.

She was not pretty or attractive, but had a trim figure and dressed well. She was without a doubt the most elegant First Lady.

Her best years were definitely the 50s and 60s. Like all of us, she looked her best when young. I concede that in plenty of pics she doesn't appear to be anything spectacular, yet in some pics she's shown to be a very pretty woman. Combined with her unique carriage and demeanor, then she becomes quite an extraordinary woman.

Jaclyn Smith, Roma Downey and Natalie Portman played Jackie. Joan Allen played Pat. I think that settles the “who was better looking” debate.

Here's Jackie turning up the sex appeal and educating tack Americans to demand and accept only the best.

IPhone does not like the word, tacky either

Pat became First Lady at age 54, whereas Jackie became First Lady at age 31. You can't fairly compare how they looked while each was in the White House given that age gap.

And that poor Pat nearly crawled into a bottle every evening. Just like Mamie.

r41 You'd be hard pressed to find a popular actress with such wide apart eyes. Being pretty usually comes with the territory and is somewhat a prerequisite to being an actress. And "character" actresses are usually a smaller subset of actresses.

[quote]Being pretty usually comes with the territory and is somewhat a prerequisite to being an actress.

I AGREE!

Jackie was impeccable, stylish, and intriguing, all of which go a long way in making someone appear more than they are. Personally, I prefer her features far more than what’s considered attractive by today’s plastic surgery-obsessed standards.

Give her credit: would have, or could have your early 30s version of yourself managed births, deaths, elections and state funerals all in the space of a few years…and still maintain some sanity…?

She was beautiful compared to Eleanor, Bess, and Mamie.

In the 70s you'd see her all around Manhattan. Just strolling along Madison alone. She jogged at the Reservoir in the morning with everybody else, but everyone pretended not to notice.

Pat was a bit plain. I think she had more spark before she married Milhous. She looked good in a Republican cloth coat (Dick thought she looked like a million bucks), but she lacked the glamor or charisma of Jackie O. I'm guessing Pat was easily the most unhappy of first ladies since maybe Harding's wife. Bess Truman hated DC and stayed away as much as possible---Pat hated politics but was trapped. She spent a lot of time visiting children in Africa----better Darfur orphans than having to make friends with Mrs. Agnew. I don't think she ever had friends from the world of politics or from her husband's small circle of odd balls.

r51: except Ron Galella, apparently

R46 ok but I was just talking about who was prettier. In all of Hollywood they didn’t pick a conventionally pretty actress to play Pat Nixon, and MANY to play Jackie. Who is more gorgeous than Jaclyn Smith? Not that Joan Allen isn’t a great actress, because she is.

And funny both were painfully skinny but only Pat Nixon was “known” for that.

I always thought her supposed great fashionwear wore her, and not the other way around. A lot of the time outside of special events, she seemed to wear very expensive versions of really plain, knockaround sportswear. Ditto with the unkempt hair. She was “beautiful” in people’s minds and eyes in her era as literally a living, passing “icon” by way of the historical events she was physically associated with and experienced. Otherwise I sense she’d have ended up the lead buyer of a high-end fashion department at Bergdorf Goodman.

No, she ended up where she wanted: a well-respected editor at a major NY publishing house.

R53 someone should start a thread on him - he died very recently, actually. His paparazzo photos were the best.

[quote]Then Jack was murdered, and we got the highly photogenic Lyndon and Lady Byrd.

And a good evenin' to YOU, Miss Bitch!

Wiki on PAT: “A former professor noted that she "stood out from the empty-headed, overdressed little sorority girls of that era like a good piece of literature on a shelf of cheap paperbacks". She held part-time jobs on campus, worked as a sales clerk in Bullock's-Wilshire department store…”

^Those were USC coeds he was referencing…good to know some things never changed at ‘SC. Thus, as it ever was.

Wow, I never noticed her wide-spaced eyes before. They can't be unseen.

Verst Ladi shood hev zee bootevul ees.

There was no one like Jackie. And while I would certainly not describ e her as a feminist back when she was married to JFK, (she was more of a Geisha) she grew and evolved even as she embraced the role of his wife. Her public comments about being First Lady and being a mother and a wife were very traditional for the late 50's and early 60's, but in a way she was also a bridge to modern, more independent women. Adn her life after both Jack and Ari reflected that.

Compared to these two she was.

Jackie was attractive, not beautiful. It was about the whole package - youth, money, breeding, access, status, tragedy. See also: Princess Diana.

[quote]She was one of those people that has a body that is perfect for designer clothing, like a model.

She didn't have a great body, her legs were awful. I think it was more her intellect, that was appealing. She was obviously well educated and had good diplomatic skills, which came in very handy during her overseas trips with her husband.

R66 she was tall and skinny , what do you mean her legs were awful?

Everyone knows Little Edie was the looker in that generation of that family.

Ok just kidding. They were about the same. With some good features and some less so.

She was no Babs Bush. That’s for sure.

She was a FAS-faced courtesan with boat-sized feet.

She had the Lightfoot (Beetlejuice) look....but without the very high forehead. She had style and class, which made her more attractive.

I remember seeing an exhibit of her White House dresses and gowns. What struck me, apart from the slavish copying of Chanel in Oleg Cassini's designs, was how flat-chested she was. I think that was in style then but it hasn't been anytime since and would strike us as freakish today.

I still say I've never heard a single person describe her as beautiful! No idea what OP is talking about. Literally NO ONE ever called her beautiful! OP is fabricating from thin air and 72 replies later no one else is calling this out.

People said she had style and class, she was a fashion icon, and that she was a young, attractive, eligible and viable widow after both her husbands died. They said she was attractive, and that was certainly true: she was always well dressed, well-coiffed, very "put together," with a trim figure made for fashion, plus great hair, in addition to her considerable charm and intelligence.

But no one ever claimed she was beautiful. She was once a pretty bride but never drop dead gorgeous. Maybe someone charitable described has "striking" once but the allure of Jackie wasn't about her looks. It was about her embodiment of a role (first lady), her associations with history (and in particular the tragic aspects of Camelot as well as the somewhat lurid realities of her Onassis period), and her later period as a celebrity icon and book editor. A lot of it had to do with fashion and a distinctive and recognizable look, but NONE of it was about Jackie as "beautiful."

In fact, I remember her looks and features were often commented on unfavorably -- Joan Rivers famously said she looked like E.T. There isn't a lot of this in the public record from her lifetime, but she wasn't always on a pedestal for some folks. People commented on her wide set eyes, very large forehead, and boyish figure. Again, I just don't get where OP is coming from.

She wasn't beautiful but she was limber.

She was never quite as beautiful as Melania 'Le Whore' Trump. And don't anyone ever forget that !

R73 Here is a quote for you from someone who says she was beautiful:

"She was aware of trends but she didn't follow them," says "Jackie Style" author Pamela Keogh. "She had true American style. She was a great beauty but also natural-looking."

Melania is a mannequin carved from plastic and filled with silicone.

[quote] … her unique carriage and demeanor

Say more

Why say her hair was unkempt?

[quote]Why was Jackie Kennedy considered a great beauty?

She wasn't.

R68 I'd be hard pressed to find a physical flaw on Little Edie in her youth. Her nickname was "Body Beautiful Beale." Jackie and Lee were both extremely attractive, but Edie possessed a rare beauty, no doubt about that.

Joan and Jackie really stood out from the other women in the family.

R73 Put on your GLASSES Helen Keller: many people called this out, including moi at R4. You aren't special.

Big Edie was gorgeous.

Little Edie was pretty and yeah a great body, but she didn't have the best face shape, really.

Here cheeks were set quite low.

[quote]Why was Jackie Kennedy considered a great beauty? She was in fact quite odd looking

And she said you look like something mined deep out of Ethel Kennedy's nose, OP.

Because an essential quality of true beauty is uniqueness. Otherwise every Miss America contestant is "beautiful".

One must be appreciate "inner beauty".

Dem feets though. Hands too.

Lee was more conventional in appearance, but basically a useless excuse for a woman.

She and JFK were both ugly. JFK is mostly teeth. I never understood remotely why others found them appealing.

Thank you! I'm sorry if I sounded harsh by the way. She had a great body, too. Her face is just not attractivr to me but she certainly was attractive in contrast to her predecessors.

I think she looked great. I once read the diet she maintained and she had to be made of steel under that soft exterior.

I think she was very unique and yes, a beauty. She wasn't a typical pretty girl. There really is no one you can compare her to because she was an icon. SHe could have been a cut above as First Lady if JFK had had 8b years. All the cultural offerings and fashion, and cultural stuff. But instead, with all her poise and her style consciousness, and her image as the mother of two adorable kids, one blindingly sunny afternoon in Dallas, she sat next to her husband while he was shot twice, and she came "this close" to being shot herself, and his brains and blood spattered all over her and there she was clambering over the back of the car. She covered his head with a jacket so the media couldn't see that someone had blown his brains out. And then for four days she conducted herself with dignity and held a horrified nation together. (I know. Mary!) So IMO after having been through that, I have nothing bad to say about her ever. She was in her 30's when all that happened.

[quote]Joan and Jackie really stood out from the other women in the family.

Jackie's eyes are so wide apart, they look like they are about to fall out of her sockets onto her chin. Compared to the other women she almost looked like a mental patient.

People who don’t look like other people are the great beauties. When they start correcting their flaws they kind of lose that.

R94 Beautifully said.

You're right, R91. Jack Kennedy wasn't really handsome like Eisenhower and Nixon.

[quote]I still say I've never heard a single person describe her as beautiful! No idea what OP is talking about. Literally NO ONE ever called her beautiful! OP is fabricating from thin air and 72 replies later no one else is calling this out.

[quote]But no one ever claimed she was beautiful.

You do not know what you are talking about.

Were you around in 1961? Obviously not. If you had asked any American at the time to describe Jackie, "beautiful" would have been their first response.

Read the articles about her in publications like LIFE and LOOK from the era, she was described as beautiful.

It's not about your personal opinion of her looks. Or Joan Rivers' opinion. In her time, especially as First Lady, she was absolutely considered to be a beautiful woman. No, she she she wasn't Elizabeth Taylor or Marylin, that's for sure, but she certainly met the standard back then for what people considered to be beautiful.

After Mamie Eisenhower and Elenor Roosevelt, imagine seeing this on your TV (Watch for her closeup.) People were mesmerized.

[quote] but she certainly met the standard back then for what people considered to be beautiful.

Yeah, she was white.

Bitch was a fugly gargoyle!

R94 Indeed. Ya have to have been there.

Great video, R99!

Her voice and speaking style is incredibly interesting.

Is that the Miss Porter drawl?

Her husband a weakness for Miss Porter debs.

Supposedly the breathy voice was a put-on and she had a more normal boice in private life. For whatever reason Jacqueline got all Marilyn-breathy anytime a camera or microphone was near.

She was passable from certain angles like in the gif R101 posted but overly she was not a "beauty" by any stretch.

R106 According to you. And that's fine.

But the popular opinion was indeed that she was beautiful.

I don't think she was considered a great beauty. She was very attractive, slim, cultured, smart, and tasteful, and those qualities, along with the couture clothes her father-in-law paid for, got her far.

R107

Popular opinion considers the Kardashians to be gorgeous.

She bonded with journalist Charlayne Hunter-Gault over shoes. They both had massive feet and sometimes they would go shopping for shoes that catered to women who were big-footed.

R105

I don't think so. George Plimpton, who was of her class, described her picking him up one day near Hyannisport or in the Hamptons. He said that she always used that soft, breathy voice and she gave him the car keys so he could drive because the way she'd been brought up, the man always drove.

R105

Jackie was the genuine article. Marilyn Monroe was always pretending to be someone else. I cannot imagine Jackie trying to emulate Marilyn in any way, and besides that bitch was trying to steal her husband (she was delusional, but still quite public about it).

R103

Part of her accent definitely does reflect being educated at a New England boarding school, in her case, Miss Porter's School. I believe students often refer to the school as "Farmington," which is where it's located, or something like that. I'm a woman from NYC, much younger than Jackie, in fact, the same age as Caroline, who I'd see walking around the Harvard campus. I received a scholarship to a boarding school very much like Miss Porter's and when I'd return home on my breaks, some people would make fun of my accent. I wasn't consciously trying to sound like a preppy, but when you're around people who speak a certain way 24/7 and have any kind of ear you pick up their speech mannerisms.

Jackie also grew up with upper crust New Yorkers and that also influenced her accent.

R100

Jackie was considered elegant and attractive by everyone except maybe political rivals. It was said that JFK was a bit envious of his wife. He was annoyed when they attended a formal dinner with Charles de Gaulle and she was much admired because of her appearance and her ability to speak excellent French.

R95

I remember reading a biography or history in which someone in Jackie's circle snidely said her eyes were so far apart it was amazing that they took in one image. This was from the time when she was engaged to JFK.

R94

She showed an astonishing amount of poise for anyone, much less a young woman. She also fought to create the right image for her husband's legacy, even if it was partly made up. She had archivists research the details of Lincoln's funeral and copied details from it and told reporters that in his last days, JFK had kept singing or whistling the song Camelot, which is how the whole Camelot myth got started.

The Kennedys were terrific at marketing and at image creation. I have mixed feelings about that and lay some of our current obsession with surface at their feet.

I find it hard to believe JFK was jealous of Jackie's charm and language skills since this is exactly why he wanted her as his First Lady. Everything was PR to Kennedy including his wife and kids.

Jackie had three accents. Minimum. All those Bouviers also had Long Island accents, nothing classy about it, and she learned elite old money social register accent as something to be put on. And then there was the breathy one.

R72

Chanel was a much-copied designer in that era. But the reason Jackie wore Chanel-inspired designs or authorized copies (There was a shop in NYC that had an agreement with Chanel, but the Chanel label was not used.) was that JFK's father, who paid for most of Jackie's clothes, thought it would look bad if the wife of the American president was wearing the work of a French designer. He certainly could have afforded French couture.

JFK also wore somewhat more American and down-to-earth clothing as president than he had earlier. He had grown up as a wealthy young man, attended Choate and Harvard, and lived in England, in addition to seeing a fair amount of the world as a civilian and as a naval officer. His natural taste wasn't that of the typical American man either.

R117

JFK's envy and concern that he was being upstaged by his lovely, younger, cultured wife has been written about many times. He chose Jackie because she was something like 12 years younger and thus controllable, well-brought-up, very presentable, and, very importantly, Catholic. I don't think he thought she'd ever be the slightest bit of competition.

R117, the IDEA!

R117 and R121

But JFK was also a traditional, privileged man who didn't regard women as fully independent people. Like his father, he thought it was fine for him to screw every woman in sight, while his wife wasn't supposed to complain. She was mainly supposed to be a decorative presence and produce kids. For his family and politics, she had to be Catholic. His mother, Rose Kennedy, disowned one of his sisters for marrying a Protestant English aristocrat. And when the daughter and her husband died young in a plane accident, she didn't attend the funeral.

This is one of my favorite photos of Jackie Kennedy.

Yes, R113, Miss Porter’s School is located in Farmington, Connecticut.

R124

I KNOW where Miss Porter's is located. I was trying to remember what the students call it.

Joan Rivers called Jackie Kennedy Onassis "ET without makeup." Sooo Funny because it's true!!

Recall a recording from a 80's era answering machine from a colleague of JBKO's at Doubleday where she says " How the hell did I wind up writing a book on Michael Jackson?" It was in a quite normal east coast upper New York accent. No baby doll breathless, that was all performance.

Rivers was a gargoyle Jewess whose husband killed himself rather than be around her harpy plastic arse. Says more about R126 that you found the vicious harpy Trumper amusing.

Oh, R125, I see.

You did say,

[quote] I believe students often refer to the school as "Farmington," which is where it's located, or something like that.

R122, it wasn’t her husband but her lover who died in the plane with her. Her husband, Billy Cavendish, was already killed in the war.

Who does your nails , who does your nails? Where did you buy your clothes, were they on sale?

She was interisting looking.

Re: Folks who find Rivers a wit rather then a shit. Try to spend 10 minutes in a room with them.

She had a large, movie star head and face. She got her spouse wrong. She should have coupled with Ranier and Grace with JFK.

[quote]Read the articles about her in publications like LIFE and LOOK from the era, she was described as beautiful.

Nobody in the press back then would have dared to call Jackie ugly.

Jackie was the youngest First Lady in recent memory back then, and the world saw her as a breath of fresh air. She was stylish, elegant and yes - beautiful (both inside and out).

[quote]I find it hard to believe JFK was jealous of Jackie's charm and language skills since this is exactly why he wanted her as his First Lady. Everything was PR to Kennedy including his wife and kids.

I don't think he was prepared for how well she was received overseas and yes probably he was jealous. All of a sudden she was the star. I guess, eventually and luckily he came to see it as an asset instead of rivalry.

Jackie looked so much like Connie Francis, who was always marketed as plain or borderline ugly. I think Connie was very cute, though. Jackie, too.

Perceptions of beauty change through the ages. What was beautiful in ancient times or even the 60s has changed. Models were not skinny until Twiggy and co came on the scene.

R122

You're right. I should have checked.

R129

Yes, I indicated in that sentence that I knew where the school was located. The question was whether the students were still using that nickname.

Ah, okay, R141

Well her husband had a type.

My parents loved this album. I was born in Boston in 1962, to native Cantabrigians (St. John’s—nr Davis Sq.). I was in my playpen next to my mother in Arlington, when she heard the news from Dallas. We moved to California, and this record came along with us. It is still damn good satire, to this day. Poor Vaughn, his career ended with the assassination…

R72, the large bust was in vogue in the 1950 like the big fins on cars. There was no standard in the 1960s. She looked good in her clothing and her smaller bust was not an issue. I like the fact that there was more variation in appearance then. Today, there is too much plastic surgery and people all wanting to look a kind of generically attractive.

Did her kids inherit her smoking addiction?

Widely spaced eyes are a unique beauty trait

She had an accent alright- Long Island lock jaw- like her crazy Beale relatives. Think Oyster Bay. It doesn’t exist anymore. In person, informally she did not do the whispery thing- but she flattened her a’s and drawled a bit- and she was quick- a real wit. There are a few upper class New York and suburban accents that have disappeared. Think FDR and ER. My grandparents spoke exactly like that.

Cuz she wuz

Among the qualities that set her apart from previous First Ladies, was her perspective. She had an international perspective. She knew and loved the minutiae of American History and culture and treasured the artifacts, but she also had intimate knowledge of French Literature, art,and history, and took a very wholistic approach. She read and spoke French fluently. She functioned well on the world stage, felt comfortable there, unlike other first ladies who seemed like well dressed tourists. She did research for JFK at his request, and came across some important books and letters regarding French Indochina, (Vietnam) and it proved helpful to his understanding of the region. When LBJ became PResident, he asked her to carry some very sensitive information in a diplomatic effort during her trip to India.

I would also add that when JFK and Jackie went abroad she was always working. Those diplomatic receptions and dinners where she had conversations and appear to gossip with De Gaulle or Malraux, etc. She was gleaning information and observing everything.

Was that trip to India via Time Machine? She went to India & Pakistan well over a year before LBJ became president.

R138 I agree Connie Francis and Jackie were quite pretty. I have read reviews of Where The Boys Are which indicated that they did not understand why Connie was stated to be the homely one. I think her father might have had something to do with that.

Well fine, R152, maybe it wasn't India, but I remember it was to dedicate some memorial to JFK, or something, and President Johnson enlisted her help with a very sensitive diplomatic mission.

She was delivering exit visas to Portugal, eh?

Or maybe you just made up some shit for this thread…

The Connie Francis troll is here. Jackie looked nothing like Connie and she couldn't sing phonetically in Serbo-Croatian either. I'm sure Jackie would never be caught dead in a Howard Johnson's. Her sense of quiet good taste was not something Connie would appreciate.

She was one of the few American's who had majesty.

The space between the eyes equals the size of an eye. Think this: “you could fit another eye in between your eyes”. Jackie had a very long eye length and I've measured several photos of the eye and the distance between the two eyes. It's the right distance.

[quote]The Connie Francis troll is here. Jackie looked nothing like Connie and she couldn't sing phonetically in Serbo-Croatian either.

And Jackie didn't have a mustache.

OP there is a such thing as Washington pretty. I love her but would Michelle Obama be considered a great beauty if she weren’t First Lady. Same with Obama. He’s sexy but not that good looking I mean not bad looking but average. I want to hook up with him so bad though.

But did Jackie feel the "soreness" like Connie Francis did at the Ho-Jo?

You are right, r154, but the country she went to was Cambodia.

R162 LBJ asked her to go. She agreed to go to Cambodia to try to get Prince Sihanouk to pressure the Viet Cong to release American POW's. She was a private citizen at that time. One can only imagine her flashbacks riding in an convertible in a motorcade just four years after the murder of her husband in similar circumstances. Considering she had under gone electric shock therapy for what we now term PTSD. Jackie was a courageous lady.

Sure, yea—she was sent to explore safe sites for US attacks on the Vietcong, on behalf of the man she disliked most during her time in Washington WTF…while her own brother-in-law was in a personal dilemma over running against LBJ, and while her friend Robert McNamara was mourning over having to leave the Defense Dept. because of SE Asia.

TLDR: she had the trip planned. For a long while. She did the courtesy stuff any prior First Lady would have agreed to. …if there was an underlying political rationale, it was to benefit her husband’s memory and her family ties—NOT to help LBJ win a losing war. 🫥

Actually Bob McNamara helped talk her into going . Perhaps reading a history book as a substitute for Netflicks?. Just a thought, but then you're obviously Gen-X home schooled so Netflick is probably the best we can hope for R164.

The Father King of Cambodia obviously knew royalty when he saw it.

She didn’t need anyone to tell her to go to Cambodia, numnut. Where’s your historical footnote for that assertion, old man—well too old, I’m sure.

R164, Jackie was old school. The President asked her to do something. The request was not unreasonable. And it involved using her brain and her status. Of course she would do it. Because regardless of how the family felt about him, she was very aware that she depended on his good will for any number of things. She knew she had a certain amount of leverage over him because she was the much revered widow, but she also knew that accepting a task like this one would increase her status and put him in her debt. Jackie was a whole lot smarter than she was given credit for.

Put him in her debt? He had already killed her husband! JFC!

R167/R169 Young man time to go back to your X-Box j/o and let the adults talk.

Jackie HO was a glorified courtesan.

All Jackie's foreign travel after JFK was assassinated, was coordinated with the state department and the White House was notified. As a courtesy, she would even call to ask if there was anything she might do while abroad. This is how it was done. It was basic protocol. In fact in most instances a foreign country would either go through the State Department or the White House to extend the invitation.

[quote]As a courtesy, she would even call to ask if there was anything she might do…

More like “ANYONE” she might do!

Why is anyone considered to be a great beauty?

R164 How old ARE you? So old that—assuming you went to college—you had to take a third SAT II-Achievement Test? All you Daddy-os had to take the Math and English sections... but by far the most common third test was American History!—what was your score 😵‍💫 When then the A.P. US History exam came a knockin’, were you even rockin’?

Correction for R165 R170

I do not think anyone considered Jackie a great beauty. She carried herself well, dressed impeccably, and had social smarts. She was in good standing within her circle and could be considered somewhat of a catch as a marriage partner within the wealthy east coast Roman Catholic community.

Jackie’s greatest asset was the fact she wasn’t Lee.

Marilyn though Jackie was pretty.

She made the effort with what she had (including money) and did it successfully.

[quote] (St. John’s—nr Davis Sq.)

It's funny that you note your parent's origins by their parish church. That's very old school Catholic/neighborhood-speak).

When I was at BU I had classmates who shared a flat in Somerville and frequently attended weekend Mass at St. John the Evangelist. I believe it was also Tip O'Neill's parish church.

R27, define poise in this circumstance?

Maintaining emotions and composure in all social situations R182. And also posture. Something modern women could stand to learn.

Her face behind the veil during her husband's funeral was the most devestated I've ever seen. Soul crushing, I don't know how she did it. In his face when his brains were blown out and she had to be in public after that. Mary!

Her face behind the veil during her husband's funeral was the most devestated I've ever seen. Soul crushing, I don't know how she did it. In his face when his brains were blown out and she had to be in public after that. Mary!

Max Jacobson pumped her full of drugs, that's how she did it! Strength my ass!

R181. Thanks for your reply. Though, it’s not that strange—there were two parishes in North Cambridge… Irish : St. John’s; and French: Notre Dame de Pitie. My parents, and hence all of my *many* aunts and uncles, came from the same small patch of North Cambridge (Day Street/Mass Ave/Haskell Street). I had different sets of grandparents who went to different churches—some family straight from Quebec and others once removed from Ireland ;and the Azores.

R181 fun facts:

My grandfather was a friend of Tip O’Neill’s father—my grand pere was paid to “make sure the French vote.”

Tip was mostly raised by a Québécois housekeeper. My dad said people joked how he talked kind a funny for an Irishman…My dad, in high school, was one of the “pages” when Tip was speaker of the Mass. house.

Someone said of Jacqueline Kennedy that "She knew how to behave."

R185 Peeks your homosexual husband never went near your ass.

[quote] When I was at BU I had classmates who shared a flat in Somerville and frequently attended weekend Mass at St. John the Evangelist. I believe it was also Tip O'Neill's parish church.

Yes, that's correct. Tip O'Neill's parish church was St. John the Evangelist in Cambridge.

Yes, Greg…that question was already addressed above. Your imprimatur was not needed here. Please keep to your own side of the Charles —TIA

And, for the record, any St. John’s parishioner would tell you that it is in North Cambridge …a distinct with a difference in that neck of the woods.

R191, we don't need your input here. Please keep your thoughts to yourself.

^there you go again…always managing to alienate folks. Bless your heart.

^I guess you didn't read R191. And if you did, how is it that anyone with a reasonable amount of intelligence (not even a lot) cannot see that it's R191, who is attempting to alienate me? In case you're too lazy to go look, this is what R191 said:

[quote] Yes, Greg…that question was already addressed above. Your imprimatur was not needed here. Please keep to your own side of the Charles —TIA

Now, R194, if you don't see that as an alienating comment by a true cunt, then you are just as much a part of the problem here. Am I alienating R191? I don't think so. It's quite the opposite.

Hope you have a good day!

Dear, sweet Greg 02116–

We get that you care very much about food..and Boston; but, you’re not the be all to end all. As much as you go on about the correct order of street names in the Back Bay—and similar factoids—there are other DLers who know as much, if not more, than you do about other cities, towns, etc.. They have their own interesting insights to ye-old Boston. Maybe you could learn to sit back, relax and just enjoy the flight. As a poster, you too frequently come across as a pedant…and not a particularly nice person. We wish you well…

An old WaPo opinion piece on Jackie...ouch.

That was scathing R197. Can't believe they printed it back in 1979.

r197 Lee ghost wrote that article.

It really does sound like the writer had it in for Jackie. Unless Jackie really was that terrible, who knows.

Helen Lawrenson sounds like an absolute cunt of a human being, and that article stinks of jealousy and insecurity.

I don't know her.

There are a lot of inaccuracies in that article.

Mrs Lawrenson, come sit by me a while.

The DC press hated Jackie because she treated them like garbage. Also, a year or two before that article was published Jackie had stopped speaking to Ben Bradlee, who wrote a book about his friendship with Jack Kennedy and his foul mouth, which didn’t fit the Camelot image (neither did Ben’s sister in law Mary Meyer fucking JFK and introducing him to drugs).

Bradlee had purchased Grey Gardens by 1979 with his cunt wife Sally Quinn. Jackie once said of Sally, “Sally Quinn is the embodiment of everything that is wrong with Washington.”

Apparently Ben Bradlee saw her in New York on a street and put his arms out to say hello and hug her, and Jackie breezed right past him without a word.

Lawrenson is great on Claire Booth Luce---who was a cunt's cunt. She's vicious to Jackie but has much of the story right and I say that as someone who ultimately liked Jackie. Marrying Onassis gave her a freedom that still being in the Kennedy orbit never would have done. Jackie was was spoiled and petulant pre-Onassis' death. Afterward, she truly was her own person.

R37 Who are you calling matronly, Mr. Lemon?

R205: Jackie saying bitchy stuff about Sally Quinn makes me really like her (Jackie) more. Quinn was a horrible person and her mother spent years whoring around with Barry Goldwater.

I wonder what Jackie’s reaction was to that article. Some of it must have hit home but wow, some of it is really over the top.

Still fun reading it as opposed to the usual gush and drooling from the media over the years.

The writer would have been right at home at DL.

Since we’re talking about Jackie and her style, you might want to check out this YouTube video.

More on Jackie’s style:

Onassis gave her for herself a Fifth Avenue apartment in New York with five servants and furnishings that included paintings by Van Gogh, Picasso and El Greco,

That's bullshit, Jackie bought 1040 in 1964 by herself.

R203 Using Kitty Kelley as some sort of credible reference is one.

I've never heard a nice word about Sally Quinn. Helen Lawrenson would have had a field day with Melania Trump!

Oh Mrs Lawrenson, you can't hurt me where I live.

Did Jackie ever respond to that article? I would imagine the author received a lot of backlash from irate admirers …. Sounds like Jackie didn’t like sex

Greg's star is flaming out.

^I read somewhere that Jackie’s firdr words after her initial sexual encounter were “Is that it?”

JFK didn't do foreplay.

MM

The 3rd paragraph at R197's link starts "She's no great beauty...."

That was the contemporary opinion of Jackie's looks during her lifetime. Not OP's fabrications and delusions.

I rest my case. I'll see myself out. THREAD CLOSED.

She was glamorous, not beautiful. Lawrenson’s assessment of Jackie’s physical appearance was spot on.

She wasn’t beautiful in the traditional sense but she was very pretty and photogenic when she was young. Maybe some people here don’t consider she was, but people back then certainly did, John Kennedy would never have married her if she weren’t.

JFK’s reasons for marrying Jackie have been explained upthread r222.

^ Miss Prisspot has spoken.

R197 Boy ole Benjy Bradlee was a real cunt.

R223, yes, agree, but if she had all of those qualities talked about upthread, and she was ugly, he would never have married her.

Jackie was legendary for never looking at you during a 1 on 1 conversation.

She would always look off to the side while conversing with someone.

R225, Jackie ended her friendship with Ben Bradlee after he wrote what she believed was an unflattering book on JFK In 1975.

If they were ever at the same event after 1975, Jackie would totally ignore Ben’s attempts to be cordial.

R227 that’s because of where her eyes were positioned on her face. 😉

R228 she was loyal. Good for her.

[quote] Greg's star is flaming out.

I rather doubt that.

Jackie was gorgeous. She was an unconventional beauty. You have pedestrian tastes OP.

[quote] … As a poster, you too frequently come across as a pedant…and not a particularly nice person.

Oh, R196, I don’t mean to. And sorry you don’t find me nice, because I am.

She looked like Sid from Ice Age, but she had grace and style. Things were different then in that things were superficial on multiple levels not just blatant beauty (it’s beyond before my time, but it feels that way looking back).

Greg take your prune loving ass elsewhere, this thread is about Jackie.

As someone who has posted on DL for over 20 years, let me point out to you that when it comes to replying to DL insults-less is more. Every comment doesn’t require a response.

SO DON’T REPLY TO THIS ONE ASSHOLE, GO START YOUR OWN FUCKING THREAD ABOUT THE CATHOLICS OF CAMBRIDGE ELSEWHERE! TWAT! 🖕

I think R235 is out of sorts!

Maybe he’s on the rag?

[quote] SO DON’T REPLY TO THIS ONE ASSHOLE

All caps! I say!

I’m so bad at following directions.

Sorry, toots!

[quote] As someone who has posted on DL for over 20 years …

That carries no weight with me, sweet little R235. I’ve been a loyal Datalounge contributor since 1995 — that’s 28 years.

I also have little to do with Cambridge.

Why are you so cantankerous?

At the risk of over-replying, I love that R235 neglected to place a comma between “one” and “asshole.”

[quote] SO DON’T REPLY TO THIS ONE ASSHOLE

Unless, in a moment of self-awareness, R235 knows that he is an asshole? I bet that’s it.

Is this even "Greg"? The first "Greg" seemed to have an IQ of about 105. This one, 90 at best.

Furthermore, I have it on good authority that Jackie was quite fond of prunes.

[quote] Is this even "Greg"? The first "Greg" seemed to have an IQ of about 105. This one, 90 at best.

Yes, I am the real Greg and my IQ is around 165.

How about you, R240? A regular brain trust, I’m sure.

For those unaware, Maurice Tempelsman is still alive at 93.

^Jackie and Maurice

Let’s split the difference: agree that Greg’s IQ is “97.5.” That’s ‘OK by me.”

Even Helen Lawrenson points out what a change she was after frumpy Bess Truman and Mamie Eisenhower. Bess hated Washington and probably avoided people she didn't want to meet as much as Jackie.

R246, Jackie spent a lot more time away from the White House than the public knew at the time.

She refused to do many of the mundane FLOTUS duties and passed them off to Lady Bird, JFK’s sisters, Rose or her mother Janet.

Both Ari and Maurice were such toads— and she earned every penny. But still, what a greedy cunt she was.

Wonder if Lee made a play for Maurice after Jackie died?

Apparently Maurice dated Joan Rivers after Jackie died but I don't know if i believe that.

R249, Maurice and Joan only dated several times after Jackie’s death.

Reportedly, Caroline was upset that Maurice began dating after Jackie died, which was none of her business.

[quote] Let’s split the difference: agree that Greg’s IQ is “97.5.” That’s ‘OK by me.”

R245, your quotation marks make no sense. Okay by you? Really. Tell us why? You enjoy lying.

165

Guys, I just block Greg. It's very easy, you should try it. I haven't seen a Greg post or thread in months. He'll probably reply to this but I won't see it.

It's glorious. Try it.

He’ll see it — no question.

And why the desire to block me anyway? I really just attempt to share what I think are some really good things.

R252 I agree. The foodie Greg was harmless, I never minded his posts. After blocking this new, twerp Greg, they’re obviously not the same person. Unless old Greg is schizophrenic.

Which Greg is which? I’m confused

I am the real Greg.

Later today I plan to share my thoughts on the best ways to cook that most humble of all foods: the ever-versatile egg.

Put in your requests for the types of egg you'd like to master:

Soft Scrambled (French-style eggs, or as the Countess Luann de Lesseps refers to them: Eggs à la Francaise)

American Scrambled Eggs

Poached Eggs

Soft Boiled Eggs

Fried Eggs

Shirred Eggs

Kennedy was the first black Golddigger, which was quite a feat. Dean Martin had sworn that he would NEVER integrate the squad. Anyway, I always thought she was pretty, but had kind of a witchy chin, but in those days, looks were enough to get one network news anchor gigs. And she was soon a sideline sports reporter. She was wooed by and married a famous boxer, I think. They both quit their professions to take acting classes. She was in 1979's TV movie 'The Mysterious Island of Beautiful Women' and did a film together.

Whatsa shirred egg?

Anyone signing their posts "Greg" gets blocked. If the original poster ever wasn't a complete jackass I don't remember it. If "Greg" is now another "collaborative fiction" character like Erna, I don't care -- I block all of those posts/posters, too. DL is a lot better without their particular idiocy and attention-seeking popping up everywhere.

R261, while I admit Greg can get a bit obnoxious and defensive at times I will not be blocking him. I think we need these eccentrics to help keep DL being its wonderful self. What you are urging is for us to become bland, colorless and "nice." In other words BORING. So block away. You do you.

Yeah, R252, please do us a favor and take your hand-wringing elsewhere. You are tedious and pathetic.

As a wise person once said, "When you come across a big kettle of crazy, it's best not to stir it."

Was I ever not a "complete jackass?" Oh, yes, I was.

R252 wants a bland DL that doesn't challenge his way of thinking. That's fine. He should block all types of people. For me, however, that sounds boring—just as the lovely R262 said.

Thank you for being reasonable, R262.

I have no patience with delicate flowers like R252/R261.

Jackie was beautiful in a very American Sporty kind of way.

R259, WHAT?

Who smoked more heavily, Jack or Jackie?

She was never beautiful or pretty or cute. People saw what they wanted to see.

I'd love a shirred egg! But shwitch the egg with vodka and throw in 2 Demorol, darling. Thanksh sho much. Zzzzzzzz....

Good idea about blocking Greg. He's so disingenuous.

R270 learned a new word, y'all!!! You go gurl!

Greg is either 1) a cosplay character who isn't amusing, created by a person with a personality disorder, or 2) a person with a personality disorder who isn't amusing. I lean toward the first option.

[quote] Greg is either 1) a cosplay character who isn't amusing, created by a person with a personality disorder, or 2) a person with a personality disorder who isn't amusing. I lean toward the first option.

Wow, VillaBadoviciCorseaux, are those my only two options?

Well, I think I’m actually very amusing.

I’m not a cosplay character.

And I don’t believe I have a personality disorder.

Which option did you choose, VillaBadoviciCorseaux? The first one?

Hmmmm….no. I definitely think you’ve left off some options. Why don’t you reconsider your childish post and get back to us once your senses return to you.

R270 must be preparing for the PSATs.

R271 is right. R270, am I also … ‘churlish?’

The OG character "Greg" would not post 30 inane responses on this thread. This Greg here , is cosplay. It's a second "Greg" invented by a different person than the OG Greg. The original Greg may have been cosplay as well. But was a bit smarter and had some good deadpan skills. Not this new Greg.

Just what sort of deadpan skills, R275?

[quote] I think she was very unique

Oh, [italic]dear.[/italic]

"Uniqueness" is an absolute quality--you cannot be "very unique" or "a little unique."

Right. It’s like saying someone is very pregnant.

R260, a shirred egg is another name for a baked egg. Shirred eggs are baked with a little cream and perhaps some grated cheese, and maybe a little sautéed onion and spinach, in small, individual cups at a relatively low temperature—just until the whites have set but the yolks remain fluid and golden. The word shirred refers to the flat-bottomed dish, or “shirrer,” in which the eggs were traditionally cooked.

They are a lovely and easy alternative to other more common ways to cook eggs.

These are the egg coddlers I own and in which I make my eggs. One could also use small Mason jars or even ramekins. These are used for both shirred eggs and coddled eggs.

Greg, a lot of us appreciate your recipes but why did you post on this Jackie thread? Some people get riled up by you about anything—and so the thread gets hijacked.

Getting back to Jackie, OP, she was not beautiful in a conventional way, but her aloofness and sense of style and sophistication made some adore her despite all the dirt.

Why hasn't Maurice written an autobiography, I want to know?

Why, R281? Funny question. I posted:

[quote] Yes, [R113], Miss Porter’s School is located in Farmington, Connecticut.

Why? Because there was a question about it.

Same with my saying that Tip O’Neill’s parish church was St. John the Evangelist in Cambridge.

And then people started saying insulting things.

I wasn’t aware that people couldn’t post responses on any thread. I appreciate you filling me in on the rules.

“Greg02116, et al. rile up the rest of us about anything—and so the thread gets hijacked.”

FIFY

R284, Walden Pond is so lovely. Do you swim there?

R281^ use the active, not the passive…

R281 can’t see where the blame rightfully belongs for hijacked threads.

Embrace your notoriety, Greg. You’re like catnip to the cats on DL.

Thank you, R288.

I do think I used to be nicer on here, but people (not everyone for sure) have been so rude and unkind.

I will, as you advise, embrace my notoriety. People complain, but I suspect they welcome any reason to work themselves into a lather.

Somewhat back on topic, a recipe from the lady herself...

This thread is about ME, not Greg!

Why hasn't Maurice written an autobiography, I want to know?

Class, dignity. Respect.

R292 - none of those stopped Prince Harry, and he's a prince!

The End.

R280

A member of my family has those coddlers in a different pattern. They're gorgeous, but for reasons I forget, they don't work well. Those are left on the shelf and a pair of cheap plastic coddlers are used instead.

R283

I was slightly irritated because I knew where Miss Porter's School was located and thought that was clear. My question was only whether the girls still called it "Farmington." Many decades ago, I had an argument with my mother, who knew nothing about these schools, and she kept talking about how snobby the name "Miss Porter's School" sounded. I told her that the students did not actually refer to it that way but she couldn't accept that.

R296: Your house sounds like laugh riot.

To R290, Did Mrs. Onassis fry up some ground meat and tomato sauce, serve Sloppy Joes or Ground meat and noodles( as my mom called it).

none of those stopped Prince Harry, and he's a prince!

whoever said Harry has class, dignity or respect?

I don't think anyone ever considered her a great beauty, you just assume that OP. She had virtues that made her attractive and alluring. She had class, dignity, grace, intelligence, sophistication and style, but she was also enigmatic. She cleverly cultivated an air of secrecy, privacy, tragedy and mystery about herself that piqued interest.

She made herself interesting by merely staying silent, by being seen but not heard, wearing those oversized sunglasses and headscarves which said; 'I want to be noticed, but you can't know me.' It's telling that one of her heroes was Garbo, who was also visible yet silent. It's Jackie's mystique that made her attractive, especially in a world where people show too much of themselves.

^I once read that Jackie thought it was tacky of Princess Diana to seek media attention like she did.

Well, R296, if your mother still draws breath you can tell her that at least in my day, the girls still referred to MPS as Farmington.

That’s all it is, basically r298. Jackie was so pretentious about her partial French ancestry. She tried to make her recipe sound like more than what it actually was…

Jacqueline, rhymes with queen.

Ethel, rhymes with Shar Pei…oh, wait, LOOKS like a Shar Pei.

R303 She spoke French well. I read an essay she wrote as a high school senior or in college that earned her a prize, I think it was a year in Paris. Her family feared she would not return to the United States because she enjoyed France so much. She was obviously very intelligent and well-read. The essay mentioned Madame de Staël.

R302

My mother is dead. Alive, however, is my understanding of why you irritate people.

This thread is getting ruined with the back and forth over a fucking school name.

I think of her as a woman with incredible taste. No so much beauty.

Mom was a hairdresser during the sixties and she did white ladies hair for a few months before she was hired by her cousin. All the white women wanted that big bouffant hair that Jackie was able to pull off. Mom said that the only reason Jackie could pull it off was because she had a massive head. It wasn’t a good look if you had a normal sized head or worse, a pea sized head. But they tipped well, so Mom and her bosses aimed to please.

I think she was considered "classy" and "fashionable" not necessarily beautiful.

ET..phone home!!!

She had bad teeth. Too small, crooked and yellowed from years of smoking.

[quote] This thread is getting ruined with the back and forth over a fucking school name.

R308 is right. Let’s leave it at this:

Miss Porter’s School is also often referred to as ‘Farmington.’

This is it.

It’s no Chadwick School.

R284/R281 Grand-mères take it inside s'il te plaît .You are scaring the horses.

R308

317 replies. Four posts. Yeah, ruined.

R310

Black women with straightened hair also wore bouffant hairstyles. Jackie Kennedy was a style icon for women of every color. Compared to some women, Jackie's hair was not that extreme.

I’m afraid to ask why someone referenced Chadwick in the same breath as “Farmington?” A bad Joan Crawford analogy?

Chadwick wouldn’t even make the list of top 10 private schools in L.A. County…

She was goofy-looking with a contrived personality. I'm never surprised when people who actually knew her claim she was a cold bitch.

^i wonder if that depended on the individual. Jim Williams, the accused murderer in ‘Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil’ mentioned how unpretentious she was when she visited his home.

Some of the most powerful men in the world were putty in her hands. "Wouldn't it be nice to have the Mona Lisa?" Bingo. Wouldn't it be nice to have an ancient Egyptian Temple?" Ok pick one we'll crate it up. 'Wouldn't it be nice to rename a 300 yo historic landmark for my husband?" Okee dokee lil lady. "Wouldn't it be nice not to bulldoze my commuter hub?" Ya got it toots. They said Jackie had a "whim of iron."

^ Well the putána didn't get him to change the name of our boat

R323 "Jack wouldn't it be nice if you kept it in your pants?

What 300 year old historical landmark was renamed for JFK? Please excuse my ignorance in advance. Thank you.

" Tony wouldn't it be nice if you didn't play by second husband?

Well, her mother sounded like she was an absolute cunt. Explains some of her personality traits. Domineering, hypercritical mother, self centered drunken father…wow, sounds like my parents 🙄🛑

R326 ^ see link. It is still a work in progress…they’ve caught up to the jet age, however

Most, if not all, physical beauty is malleable. It's not so much a specific arrangement of features that makes a person beautiful as it is grooming, poise, and the spirit that animates. Jackie willed herself to be one of the most beautiful women of the 20th Century, and she was.

^^^^MARY!

MARY MYER !

Fixed for R331

R332, Meyer, not Myer.

That party. Hosted by Jacqueline Kennedy in honor of Jack and held aboard the yacht Sequoia on his 46th and last birthday celebration, May 29, 1963.

That party. The one in which Mary Meyer was present. The one who Charles Bartlett, according to the net, a ‘Kennedy intimate’ to who Jack had confessed he was deeply smitten with.

That party. Which did not include Marilyn Monroe. Marilyn Monroe, who had just sang him that famous birthday song earlier, neglecting to go to the studio for work on her latest and last movie and causing her to get fired and instead snuck off to sing to him for his birthday.

That party later, on the Sequoia.

Was she not invited to the Sequoia party because she had already been replaced by Meyer?

Monroe’s famed birthday song to Jack was in 1962.

R334 Marilyn died in ‘62.

Perhaps MM was not invited to the party because she was otherwise engaged.

R337 Oh for heavens sakes, I forgot she died in 62.

The myth that Jackie and JFK's marriage was getting stronger in late 1963 after they lost the baby is rubbish. Supposedly he had curtailed his sexual addiction and was trying to be faithful . He had banished his long time mistress Mary Meyer. Jackie showing an apparent European sophistication had incited Mary to JFK's last birday party. Seated her next to him at the table. Her strategy appeared to be ignore her and Jack would tire of Mary like all the others. Wrong . Unlike his other bimbos,actress and hookers Jackie considered Mary a real threat because she was of the same class,smart ,stylish and apparently JFK was besotted with her bohemian anything goes vivacious personality and of course that she was into LSD and anal sex was a plus. Now Jackie wanted her gone. So the story goes a guilty Jack dumped Mary and zipped his pants. The reality was somewhat different. A note from JFK to Mary just weeks before Nov 22 begging her to rendezvous with him in NYC on Nov11 was just auctioned off. She declined so he settled for his 19 yo lolita Mimi Alford hooking up with her at the Carlyle. JFK administered the coup d'grace on Nov 20 at the White House reception for Supreme Court Justices. Jackie returned early looked down the stairs and saw Mary Meyer sneering up at her from the landing. Justice Douglas wife Joan recalled she heard raised voices behind the door and when Jack and Jackie appeared it was obvious they had been quarreling and "the President's hair was standing up in the back like it had been pulled". Snap is of the reception JFK is looking up at the landing where Mary was perched. Jackie looked glum and only stayed twenty minutes then bailed. They left for Dallas the next morning. A leopard doesn't change its spots. So much for revisionist Camelot claptrap.

Mary looked like she'd be up for anal. JFK was quoted as saying he "wasn't done with a gal until he'd had her three ways".

In October 1963, one month before his assassination, Kennedy wrote a letter to Mary Pinchot Meyer, imploring her to join him for a tryst. The unsent letter, written on White House stationery and retained by Kennedy's personal secretary Evelyn Lincoln, sold in June 2016 at auction for just under $89,000.[17] The letter reads: "Why don't you leave suburbia for once – come and see me – either here – or at the Cape next week or in Boston the 19th. I know it is unwise, irrational, and that you may hate it – on the other hand you may not – and I will love it. You say that it is good for me not to get what I want. After all of these years – you should give me a more loving answer than that. Why don't you just say yes." The letter is signed "J."

R339 Good post— about time someone pointed out Jackie’s lies about how the contrite JFK after their baby died suddenly changed his slutty ways. All the lovey dovey talk was horse shit. In fact, she went off sailing on Onassis’s yacht with Lee afterwards after the baby died— and we know what that led to. She stole Ari from right under Lee’s nose even then.

To be fair, Jackie didn’t expect her husband would be killed soon after, etc. but to the day he died he had pussy on the brain — and it sure wasn’t Jackie’s.

R341 Well to be fair it was an "unmailed" letter.

" It took some time but we were just starting to make it work and then I got the rug pulled out from under me."...Jacqueline Kennedy

Obviously wishful thinking on her part.

Once the play has closed it's easier to revise the script.

He wrote the note to Mary Meyer in Oct 63 which was the time Jackie was being wined, dined and perhaps 69'd on Onassis yacht. SS agent Clint Hill says JFK called him in before Jackie left for the yacht and told him "Your job is to keep Onassis away from Mrs Kennedy". Think they both knew each other very well.

The idea of Aristotle 69ing is absolutely nauseating.

“The great enemy of truth is very often not the lie--deliberate, contrived and dishonest--but the myth--persistent, persuasive and unrealistic." John F. Kennedy

R347 I can think of a billion reasons why it isn't.

"Those jet setters they aren't like you and me. He had his flings and I'm sure she had hers too".. Evelyn Lincoln Secretary to JFK.

I'm surprised that Prince Rainier didn't check her out as a prospective consort before he settled with Grace Kelly.

How could you "settle" with Grace Kelly??

By marrying her and sharing a home and or homes with her R352. The way anyone settles with someone.

Both Mary Pinchot Meyer and JFK were assassinated in broad daylight, one year apart.

Listen to all you hairdressers and decorators analysing and dissecting my life 29 years after my death. No matter how much you want to, you'll never be me. Bye Bye.

Mary Pinchot Meyer was almost ten years older than Jackie, and she was ugly.

But she did anal!

And she died in rather mysterious circumstances, mwahahahahaha

After Eleanor, Bess, and Mamie, the bar was already set low.

Marlene Dietrich said she had a quickie with JFK in The White House. Are we to believe her? She would have been 61 at the time to his 45. He could have had any woman he wanted, why would he go for an old woman? Of course she told this story long after he was dead.

[quote] Marlene Dietrich said she had a quickie with JFK in The White House.. He could have had any woman he wanted, why would he go for an old woman?

Bragging rights that he fucked Marlene Dietrich.

I wouldn't be proud of fucking a 61 year old Marlene Dietrich...that's akin to fuckin Madonna now.

Marlene Dietrich was still quite attractive when JFK was POTUS.

Here she is at the White House in 1963, posing with JFK’s “pimp”, Dave Powers.

Beautiful?

Have you ever seen my wife Ethel's blown-out pussy?

Not to mention her nasal New Yawk voice screaming all the damn time.

Jackie was a fuckin' goddess next to that...

i don't buy the Dietrich thing. She made it up

r363 that's a ghoul! Attractive, we're gay men, what do we know. No 45 year old straight man with access to beautiful young women is going to tap that old thing.

R366, She was one of the most famous women in the world . . . AND . . . she had slept with his father years before.

JFK would have gotten off on the fact that he fucked one of his father’s past conquests.

R352 settled down. Sorry.

JFK fucked a lot of ugly chicks like those White House secretaries just because he had easy access to them. He wasn't discriminatory being a sex addict. He apparently was a lousy lover, so I can't see beautiful women with a healthy sex drive staying around him too long especially since he was married. Average chicks would relish that attention as long as they could.

What woman wouldn’t want to brag to her grandchildren that she had once slept with a President?

My dad said that ugly women were the best lays because they had to work at it.

JFK last birthday was another Camelot bacchanal:

Jackie went ahead with plans for Jack’s 46th birthday cruise aboard the ‘Sequoia’. The invitation called for “yachting clothes”. It was a dismal, rainy evening, but the yacht embarked anyway with a full complement of guests,mistress Mary Meyer,gay "boyfriend" Lem Billings i,David and Hjördis Niven. With thunder and lightning crashing all around, drinks were served on the covered fantail, followed by a dinner of roast fillet of beef in the elegant, mahogany-paneled cabin. As the 1955 Dom Perignon flowed, toasts were delivered and the laughter grew louder.”“Although by now The Twist was decidedly passe, it remained Jack’s favourite piece of dance music. The three-piece Marine Band played the tune over and over until it was finally time for JFK to unwrap his presents.” Which he did with gusto. As the evening became more raucous, and with his $1,000 present from Jackie – a rare engraving, accidentally stomped on by a drunken guest Billings, John Kennedy moved on, to unwrapping his female guests.in the President’s sights was Hjördis Niven the beautiful blonde Swedish, actress wife of David. The glamours prey recalled 'Jack finally cornered me in a below decks stateroom. It was all ruffled feathers and over in minutes like birds," JFK did this in the presence of not only his mistress but his pregnant wife. The Love Boat returned to dock at 4am .

Hordjis Niven JFK's last birthday gift.

R371 Picture of your mum please.

R360 Marlene's daughter Mari Riva wrote one of the great celebrity's kid bios Dietrich. She wrote that Marlene was all excited to be heading to the White House to meet JFK as she knew him as a the son of Joe Kennedy when they were fucking. The Kennedys were nothing if not generous when passing around their women. It was understood a familia courtesy. Mari is sitting on the sofa when her Mama returns from the Oval Office suddenly a pair of pink panties is tossed in her lap and Marlene says triumphantly' Smell your President"

snap with Dave Powers Kennedy aide

R372 Lower left: That's the cuk David Niven chatting up the "gay BF" heavy footed Lem Billings.

Jackie would readily agree with most of these assessments. She could actually MAKE herself appear to be beautiful for a time. All in all? Home girl ain't hardly pressed about it...

^ I actually really admire her for making the most out of her looks. A lot of uggos just resign themselves to it, but she worked her ass at becoming as stylish, well-groomed, beautifully-spoken, elegant and appealing as she possibly could. She managed to fool everyone into thinking she was actually gorgeous. That's pretty inspirational.

In spite of all the spouting off by ones that never achieved half as much as these two Kennedy's 'Camelot' was a poetic image put forth of our country of those Kennedy years. There was that time it felt that way. It's easy to be negative and tear down, to criticize, but it's much harder to make things better.

Jackie spun a dream of our country like a Camelot. I'm sure she felt that way when we went through it. A sentimental look at those Kennedy years and how they did love our country and tried to do some good. Maybe a fantasy spun but one that aimed at a loftier view of the best country in the world, our own United States. Tearing it down a country that has protected the world for decades with the blood it's own men on the battlefield is for fools.

The years of the Kennedy's to me were sweet, a young family in our White House, the children playing on the lawn, the smiles and Jackie's beautiful presentation in fashions, her pretty little pill box hat, smiling and with hope for our nation reflected to me as a kid a dream of my life going forward in this free and beautiful country to enjoy liberties hard won by previous countrymen who gave their own lives for us to live. It does not matter to me their personal and private lives and faults. It is it was always about the greater vision, what 'Camelot' was about. Though it may seem corny, for me, I won't ever forget those sweet days and it does seem I cannot ever let it be forgotten, that for one brief, shining moment there was Camelot.

For that vision I will always thank her.

R379 Yes .You had to have been there.

Love her or hate her nearly three decades after her death we are still discussing JBKO. How many Pat Nixon threads do ya see?

' Smell your President"

yuck

[quote] a rare engraving, accidentally stomped on by a drunken guest Billings

I remember reading that it was Clem Norton, a friend of Teddy's, that put his foot through the piece.

Jackie's reaction, for guests, being, "It's okay, I can get it fixed."

^ Wrong Clem

I once read that JBK had a will of iron coupled with crippling self doubt.

Just an aside. It has been announced Biden's new Air Force One will continue the traditional livery chosen by Jacqueline Kennedy over 60 years ago. She selected it because cornflower blue was JFK's favorite color.

Actually JFK's favorite color was cornhole blue.

Speaking of, it happened one night is on TCM right now, and I’ve always thought Claudette Colbert was odd looking in a similar way to Jackie. Don’t get her at all.

Also, a big part of Jackie’s appeal was the hair. Big and dominant. It makes a huge difference.

R296, Dominick Dunne’s former wife ( and mom to Griffin and Dominique) attended “ Farmington “ around same period as Jackie

R389, Jackie often wore wigs or falls as FLOTUS.

Jackie had an freakishly oversized head with a gigantic Leonian mane of hair which made it seem even bigger.. My aunt saw her in Manhattan in the 80's and could not believe how bloody big her head was.

☝🏼 too thin does cause lollipop 🍭 head

R392, And don’t forget those size 10 clodhoppers.

I saw Lee on Madison Avenue in the early 90s, she, too, was tiny with a big head and enormous poof of hair.

Yeah r395, but you're just a fag

- Lee

R397 Shut up, PrinciPESSa!

R395, Was I with her?

R399 No, ‘twas I.

R388. I love IHON! Claudette was flawless in those satin gowns.

Did she quite possibly have FAS? Can one have just a touch of that, I wonder?

r402 her mother would have had to have been the drinker for her to have FOS, not her father

R403 I fully understand that, but thank you nonetheless. The real question is how are we so very certain her mum wasn't thirsty in private? Many women in those days, from families like hers indulged in a few nips on the sly. She's wall-eyed for sure.

She got her father’s wide spaced eyes. His were practically on the sides of his head as well…

How did they see the same image?