Tell me about Belgium and the Belgians

I regularly go to Belgium to buy beer, and I have to say, I have yet to see an attractive Belgian man. They tend to be cartoonishly ugly…it’s tragic.

Fabriqué en Belgique!

What John Oliver said: a loathsome chocolate gulag with no objective reason to exist.

R1 My father, grandfather, and great-grandfather were good-looking Belgian men.

Brussles has the highest Muslim population (25%) of any European Union capital city, so I'll bet the falafel there is as good as the chips with mayonnaise.

You hardly hear about their royal family.

Who the fuck is the gringo at r5 who makes every Europe thread about Muslims? Get fucked.

[quote]What do other Europeans think about Belgium?

I agree with the French in that they're a bit weird. And there's abandoned industrial wasteland everywhere, it's a pretty gross country outside their pretty little tourist cities.

I have a Belgian neighbor. She’s very fat in the middle and slightly “off” but she’s also kind to a fault.

I eat their waffles all the time. They're delicious !

They made this beautiful coming-of-age gay film, Noordzee, Texas (North Sea, Texas) (2011).

Don't get me started on the Luxemburgers.

I like them. Great cuisine, uncommonly good beer, and their manners are often better than most city-dwelling Europeans. They have hospitality down to a T.

One of the most sickening movies I have ever seen was made in Belgium, MAN BITES DOG (92). The lead actor, Benoit Poelvoorde, has become a big star in France, which is a complete mystery to me.

That said, I love Ghent, Antwerp, and Bruges--all of them an hour or so away by train from Brussels.

R7 that's a bit disappointing to hear about industrial wasteland. Their little towns looks so quaint, like fairy tales. I would have hoped that their suburbs were more attractive than American ones.

Antwerp is amazing

Belgian Congo.

The Belgians I have been acquainted with are very nice people. Kind of bougie in an understated way, but super friendly and well educated

Belgium really is a "nothing" state on the continent. It was created to keep the French and Germans apart (and we know how well that's worked over the centuries). Part of the country speaks French and part speaks Flemish - and NEVER shall the twain meet!

Within the country there is essentially a demarcation - on one side Flemish is spoken and on the other, French. There are two school systems based upon language.

It's a "functioning" country because so many Euro organizations have made Brussels their home base. That's a whole lotta money in that city and surrounding region from the EU-salaried employees as well as NATO military and contractors.

That said, the country suffered terribly in WWI and WWII. Germany just ran over and through it twice, despite the nation's stated and recognized neutrality (but, you know, Germans).

Oh yea, and the big demerit from a government standpoint? The Belgian Congo - Jesus; talk about crimes against humanity!

I don't know any Belgians so cannot comment about the people. But I do remember an article in the Times years ago about the country... something to do with a failed administration or elections. One Belgian was quoted that as a country the people had just 3 things in common: beer, chocolate and their king.

LMAO, we should all be grateful for R4’s OBJECTIVE opinion. Because R4 couldn’t possibly be a troll himself.

Don’t forget the muscles from Brussels

R7, not a gringo. The anti Muslim contingency here are usually from the UK, or somewhere else in Europe.

We have an array of people who post here. Some are actual American expats who moved to the EU or now, UK. Some are European or Brits who now live in the US.

We also have our fair share of Australians.

While I’m also of the mindset that xenophobe should get fucked, try to step back every now and then and try to understand/appreciate where some of these folks are coming from.

We have a large contingency of much older people here. Some were raised to be the way they are because it was completely normal for them to be raised as fearful of everything or anything that wasn’t a replica of them or their culture.

I’m not excusing their fucked up views, but I’m attempting to explain to you who you’re encountering on some of these threads.

Not many people know this, but Belgians poop chocolate. About 65% of the world's supply of chocolate comes from Belgian poop.

Belgium became a country because French and Dutch Catholics wanted to remain the majority. Belgium remains a country because though the Walloons and the Flemish hate each other, they hate the French and Dutch far more.

Great waffles.

Great cinema/TV, though more the Made in Flanders variety. Check out Professor T. Three seasons of sheer brilliance. Check out films by the Dardennes freres.

Great actors both Walloon and Flemish, like Olivier Gourmet, Jeremie Rennier, Emilie Dequenne, Virginie Efira, Yolande Moreau, Benoit Poelvoorde, Jan Decleir, Koen De Bouw, Veerle Baetens and Matthias Schoenaerts, who made a film career outside of Belgium.

Brussels is a complete waste of time. Flemish towns like Bruges, Antwerp. Leuven are more interesting.

R21. WTF is wrong with you? I'm European, not an elder and like most other Europeans I don't want Muslims (especially) or mass immigration of any peoples determined to undermine our liberal values. We're not a melting pot.

[quote]that's a bit disappointing to hear about industrial wasteland

Charleroi was voted the 'World's Ugliest City' in 2008

[quote] Some were raised to be the way they are because it was completely normal for them to be raised as fearful of everything or anything that wasn’t a replica of them or their culture. I’m not excusing their fucked up views, but I’m attemptin

R21 And just as many of them both follow and/or are witnesses to the social upheaval due to misguided EU migrant policies that has been occurring in Western Europe for decades. Some have been victims of on-going Muslim attacks and terror. They don't have your privilege of turning a blind eye and pretending.

The King used to cut off the hands of Africans if they didn't pick enough rubber

53 years of Belgian occupation of the Congo was nothing compared to the millenium of horrific treatment by Muslims and Africans.

Pick rubber? Oh, dear.

R24, there’s nothing wrong with me. I just don’t happen to hate or discriminate against a group of people, just because they’re Muslims.

And yep! I’m nuanced enough to understand how disastrous immigration policies have submerged much of European culture into the patchwork we witness today. I get my news from multiple sources, including sources outside of the MSM of the United States.

I know how difficult it has been for many immigrants, ESPECIALLY the men, to assimilate. But they’re already there, and as we all know, many log these people came from cultural wastelands, and it will take at least 20-50 more years for their to be any formidable sense of cultural assimilation.

Now, please go get fucked.

TIA!

Also, please excuse my glaring typos.

^^ even you sense you're an ahistoric idiot.

When the Belgian airport suicide bombings occurred in 2016, some posters here commented that in contrast to other attacks elsewhere in Europe, the Belgians seemed cold and didn't comfort each other or stop to render aid when the bombings were clearly over. They just ignored people in distress and walked on by.

R33, do you think Muslims who have immigrated to Europe can eventually assimilate?

I’m genuinely curious what people here think about this.

Plenty of Muslims in the United States have. Even to the point where they eventually abandon almost all religious dogma.

The Antwerp Six have been influential in fashion starting in the 80s. Dries Van Noten, Ann Demeulemeester, Dirk Van Saene, Walter Van Beirendonck, Dirk Bikkembergs, and Marina Yee

Their chocolates and waffles are good. They can can keep those nasty little sprouts.

Chantal Akerman was Belgian. Her film "Jeanne Dielman, 23 quai du Commerce, 1080 Bruxelles" is rated the #1 film of all time.

They have large cocks.

Who died and anointed the insufferably foolish R21 "Datalounge State Spokesperson?"

Get some help, a life and/or a blog, bitch, and not necessarily in that order. Do not deign to characterize or define us.

[quote]Brussles has the highest Muslim population

Oh, dear.

[quote]They have large cocks.

Mais oui! C'est vrai!

I'm not a Frenchie! I'm a Belgie!

I’ll be over there in early May (I’m a New Yorker). I was told that making Ghent my airbnb base would be good because of its relative proximity to Bruges, Brussels and Maastricht. I’ve already visited Antwerp but might go on a Saturday night.

[quote]That said, I love Ghent, Antwerp, and Bruges--all of them an hour or so away by train from Brussels.

True! And don't forget the Moules Frites (along with your beer) while you visit.

Our sweet, slightly retarded siblings.

Good cuisine, unlike ours. And the Flemish speak a beautiful “old Dutch”.

Belgium is the snob capital of the world.

My brother lives in Brussels as he works for the EU. He calls it Hellgium. Read into that what you will.

I'm on the side of the Flemings.

[quote]Within the country there is essentially a demarcation - on one side Flemish is spoken and on the other, French. There are two school systems based upon language.

There's also a small German-speaking community, East Belgium, that shares official status with Wallonia and Flanders.

Ah, mom ami! It would be my pleasure. Where shall we begin?

R19 I didn't say my opinion was objective, you not particularly bright person. I was answering R1, whose opinion was not objective, either. I'm Belgian-American, so why should I have an objective opinion? Some of the men in my family are good-looking (as opposed to "cartoonishly ugly" as R1 said).

The King delivers his Christmas message in all 3 official languages - French,Flemish & German. It’s a beautiful and under appreciated country.

R33 here, answering to whomever. Please line up to take a ticket number to marginalize me!

As my answer, I was going to say what you mention in the last paragraph about assimilation of Muslims in the U.S. For the most part, especially prior to 9/11 this is/was the case. I wouldn't say that they abandoned their religious dogma, though it lessens across generations; they just didn't/don't care to proselytize or impose it on anyone unlike right wing U.S. Christians.

Another thing that I believe facilitates assimilation in the U.S. is that Muslim immigrants here tend to be of a higher socioeconomic status and better educated than their counterparts in Europe before immigration and in successive generations. They're also more likely to live outside of ethnic enclaves.

There do seem to be fundamental differences in demographics, too. It seems like Muslim migration to Europe consists primarily of men without a pot to piss in and no foreseeable prospects of good employment or getting laid. That's a bad mix for any group of any age, but throw in the testosterone factor and the frustration, tension, and resentments build.

The King and Queen seem nice. Prince Laurant on the other hand…

I rewatched the Martin McDonaugh film IN BRUGES recently and thought the city itself looked gorgeous.

They eat dainty food.

The classic French and hominem is,

Ta mere est Belge!

They make really good dance music in the 90s and 2000s. Mostly trance stuff. Kate Ryan is a Belgian signer who seems to actually acknowledge her fans are gay, unlike others with such followings….

Apparently Belgian jokes are a thing, similar to Polish jokes. Found on Reddit ...

Q: Why did the Belgian guy remove his glasses after getting pulled over for drunk driving?

A: So he could tell the officer he had two fewer glasses than he actually did.

***

A Dutch guy visiting Antwerp is walking along the River Schelde but can't find a pedestrian bridge. He flags down a local guy across the river ...

Dutch guy: Hey! How do I get to the other side?

Belgian guy: Huh? You're already ON the other side!

***

Q: How do you drive a Belgian crazy?

A: Put him in a round room and tell him there are some fries around the corner.

[quote] I have yet to see an attractive Belgian man. They tend to be cartoonishly ugly…it’s tragic.

r1 Uh, half of Belgians are ethnically Dutch and the other half are ethnically French. So who are you saying is "cartoonishly ugly" - the Dutch or the French?

A 2008 estimate found that approximately 6 percent of the Belgian population (628,751 people) is Muslim. Muslims constitute 23.6% of the population of Brussels, 4.9% of Wallonia and 5.1% of Flanders. The majority of Belgian Muslims live in the major cities, such as Antwerp, Brussels and Charleroi. The largest group of immigrants in Belgium are Moroccans, with 400,000 people. The Turks are the third largest group, and the second largest Muslim ethnic group, numbering 220,000.

Belgium is a small country. It should have controlled its immigration population much better than these statistics indicate.

R61 most of them were welcomed with open arms in the 1950s in a country that needed to rapidly rebuild after the second World war

r61 However, fools try to make it sound like Muslim fundamentalists are invading Europe, and that's not the case. Turkish and Moroccan workers have been immigrating north for decades. And most Moroccan and Turkish Muslims are very secular in regards to religion.

Why the hell would Belgium limit the immigration of needed workers? To what gain?

[quote] Q: Why did the Belgian guy remove his glasses after getting pulled over for drunk driving? A: So he could tell the officer he had two fewer glasses than he actually did.

And who would be telling that joke? The play on words would only work in English.

What the fuck are you talking about R1? I've been to Belgium many times and the men are very normal. Some are unbelievable hot (particularly at the Dutch top end where they speak Flemish), some are average and some are not very attractive. Just like everywhere else.

You must attract the uglies.

Many years ago, I bought a Eurailpass and was touring Europe. I started in Amsterdam, and thought I would go next to Paris. I hopped on the train and sped along until Brussels, where, all of a sudden, in many different languages the announcement came on the speakers that the train was going to stop there or turn back to Amsterdam. The reason? The French-speaking part of the RR union was going on strike. So I opted to go to Cologne and down through Germany instead. Three weeks later I was in Paris and returning to the Netherlands for my return flight. I got on the train and got as far as Brussels. Now the speakers came on again. "We are sorry, but the train is not continuing" . Why ? Because now the Flemish speaking part of the RR union was going on strike. In that instance, I opted to take the train to Germany and transfer to a bus to take me to the airport, but it was very dicey and I was nervous that I wouldn't get to the airport in time. Strikes I understand, but dividing them up by language was something completely new to me.

The most famous Belgian is fictional. What does that tell you?

Belgium is an amazing country to visit. There is so much to see in Antwerp and Brussels. Ghent, Ostend, Liége, and Bruges are also all worth visiting. (But be warned the appearance of Bruges and the fact of its architecture's survival are amazing, there's little actually to do there other than buy chocolate--all the other large Belgian cities and towns are actually much more interesting, if not quite as picturesque.)

[quote] Why the hell would Belgium limit the immigration of needed workers? To what gain?

Those "immigrants" are creating social havoc, and even more so are the second and third generation. No sensible government should turn a blind eye and demand that its population endure attacks and social disintegration.

[quote] The most famous Belgian is fictional. What does that tell you?

r67 Not much. Who are we talking about here?

I think he's talking about Agatha Christie's fictional character, Hercule Poirot.

R60. It’s a linguistic division, not necessarily an ethnic division.

R72 The dicks don’t change when you jump borders?

Hercule Poirot has never been played either in film or TV by a Belgian.

[quote] Those "immigrants" are creating social havoc, and even more so are the second and third generation. No sensible government should turn a blind eye and demand that its population endure attacks and social disintegration.

r69 That's absurd. If you look at the stats, Muslims are only 6% of the population. And over 90% of those are Turkish and Moroccan. Turkey and Morocco are no more home to terrorists than Switzerland. It's just phony Islamophobic paranoia.

Brussels Griffon, cutest dang breed of dog der iz......

[quote] The most famous Belgian is fictional. What does that tell you?

That you have a pathetically limited and parochial view of world culture.

r77 And Jean Claude Van Damme!!!

I stand by Poirot as the most famous Belgian.

Who's Poirot?

R75 Hundreds of Belgian Muslims pursued jihad for DAESH in Syria. Whether or not Turkey and Morocco have "terrorism" is irrelevant to the decades of terror carried out by Muslims in Western Europe and the on-going social chaos caused by EU migrant policies.

And FYI, there have been various terror groups at war with the Moroccan monarchy and populace for decades.

r81 And there are hundreds of thousands of Neo-Nazis among the white Christian population of Europe and America.

You haven't made your case that a 6% minority of Turks and Moroccans in Belgium is a problem.

There are white Americans fighting for Daesh in Syria.

R82 There have always been "right-wing" Europeans. Terror and the increase in attacks and social disintegration began with the increase in Muslim migrants.

[quote] You haven't made your case that a 6% minority of Turks and Moroccans in Belgium is a problem

See R69.

[quote] There are white Americans fighting for Daesh in Syria.

There were MUSLIM Americans pursuing jihad for DAESH in Syria.

ummmm .......right wing Europeans = Nazis, neo-Nazis, fascists of all stripes. I'm glad you have rewritten history to gloss over the social disintegration THEY caused.

R84 It's not "neo-Nazis" that are blowing up trains, buses, and concert venues. It's not "neo-Nazis" who are murdering journalists, beheading teachers and priests. But you are correct in that both Nazis and Muslims are invaders who have wreaked social havoc.

Kevin De Bruyne is good-looking.

[quote] Who the fuck is the gringo at [R5] who makes every Europe thread about Muslims? Get fucked.

You sound angry, R7.

You need to get used it.

You're not producing babies but I've made five already.

[Quote]It's just phony Islamophobic paranoia.

Let's talk about the Bataclan massacre and Paris attacks which were organised and carried out primarily by Belgian muzzies.

Tin Tin answers for all. Half of you have that haircut still.

Not only that, r88, but the attackers were able to flee to Brussels and hide out there for months on end. Because there were so many people there willing to cover for them.

16 Belgian muslims were eventually arrested for assisting in the Bataclan and Paris attacks. Two immediately escaped to Syria where they 'died'. The other fourteen stood trial in Belgium.

Mind you, none of these 16 were the actual Bataclan attackers - the ones who, among other things, slit open audience members' stomachs and dragged those victims around the floor by their innards while still alive.

No, these 16 were strictly the Belgian accomplices.

That is what having the highest Muslim population in your capital city buys you. A safe zone for even the bloodiest of jihadis, a way to help them hide, escape, and perhaps live to throw a gay off a building another day.

They gave birth to the finest flower chivalry ever produced, the most important European ruler between Constantine and Napoleon, Charles of Ghent aka Charles Habsburg, aka Carlos V

For all the (obviously) uneducated TRAs and nonbinaries haunting this thread, who will doubtless fail to get r91's joke:

The Hapsburg family portrait galleries all around Europe are hilarious.

Even if you meant th first Holy Roman Emperor, r91, my point still stands about the visage...

^^^ Though at least Charles V had the decency to grow a BEARD!

The Habsburgs churned out so many genetic freaks that the peasants had better child survival rates than the royal family. Quite the feat.

Well, at least with the Hapsburgs we knew there were no Warming Pan babies, r96

Charles II's jaw may have looked odd back then, but now it only makes him look like some of the T's now moderating all gay forums everywhere all the time, so we have to be tolerant, girls!

R90 In most cases, the French anti-terrorism squads shoot Muslim terrorists dead. Saves the cost of a public trial and especially avoids those embarrassing public questions that the media have no desire to ask and the government has no desire to answer.

Yes, r99. They do.

Meanwhile in Britain, when teenagers are blown up for going to a Manchester Ariana Grande concert, the authorities arranged for there to be multiple orations of "Don't Look Back in Anger" on the site, replete with a shipped-in pianist and rallied Labour activists, only two days later.

The blood wasn't even dry.

One thing we can say about Belgium. At least they aren't as bad as Britain.

R100 Britain knew it had a homegrown Muslim terror problem already in the late 1990s. But as long as attacks were off-shore or Jews were targeted, governments turned a blind eye. It was British Muslims who blew up Mike's Pub in Tel Aviv in 2003, in which 3 were murdered and 50 injured. Then the London bombings occurred in 2005, forcing the government to start looking and stop pretending.

Did Britain even know it had a Muslim problem in the 1980's? I doubt it. I was there.

Maybe Westminster types did, but as someone who grew up between the UK and New York, the thing we were subjected to in the UK was the IRA bombings and the constant IRA evacuations.

So... you are saying exactly what, r101? I'm so sorry, but you'll have to explain your logic to me.

[quote]and it will take at least 20-50 more years for their to be any formidable sense of cultural assimilation.

The children of the initial Muslim migrants are a lot more extremist compared to their parents. Pretty much all of the 100+ terror attacks were committed by young men in their 20s or 30s.

Read the Koran, see what that god says about you as a gay man, and understand how very much the EU grandees actually hate you when they welcome them into your country.

R102 The IRA wound up its terror campaign in England around 2001. The Muslims started up their terror campaign in England in 2005.

Yes well, I still keep the go-bag my school taught me to keep on the inner handle of my bedroom door. I always keep another go bag at another location. Contains a fresh toothbrush, smalls, and reading material. Nowadays, it's also an extra laptop, phone and extra memory sticks. Anything vital for what I am doing at that moment, I always make a copy and put it in a burnproof go-bag.

Growing up under terror does things to you.

So there’s mention of the horrible things the Belgians did in the Congo, but nothing of their evil mechanizations in Rwanda. They are they ones that enforced and amplified the difference between Hutu and Tutsi requiring registration of each “race” and perpetuating the stereotypes between them and continually feeding dissension and antagonism that had not prior been a problem. They greatly favored, educated and promoted one group over the other and then when the Belgians were driven from the country and Rwanda gained independence, when they left the country they put the other group in charge of everything and fanned the flames of retribution. The Belgians seeded and cultivated the issues that lead to genocide and were the architects of the time bomb that would later go off. They also left Rwanda as the most Catholic of all countries in Africa, which did them no favors as well.

The Belgian colonies were always the very very, very cruellest of colonies, r107.

All decently educated people understand that.

-OOOPS so sorry! I failed to say that the UK is the worst in the world!

My bad

R33 It id not true. I was working in Brussel that day. People were asked to leave the tram station and the airport by their own means if they could, so the police could seal the places as another explosion was a real possibility. For the rest of the day, we were stuck inside.

I worked there when i was in the Netherlands. SUCH a contrast in culture. The dutch, pragmatic and skin-flinty, the Belgians emotional and at times extravagant. Of course, it’s all relative, but the fact remains, the quality of life is good there, but there are people there who prefer to sweep problems under rugs and do ill with a smile on their faces

Hmmm. rr110 / r111 you were "there that day"?

I don't believe you.

We gave King Leopold a hand.

I live in Liège, work in Brussel.

R64 Ca marche en français. Pas sûr en néerlandais. Aucune idée en allemand.

Fascisct Leopold was STILL less fascist that the TRAs demanding SUBMISSION from us on our little DataLounge

R112 I meant in Brussel, not in the airport or the tram station.

NO CENSORSHIP

My favourite Belgian is Schtroumpf Costaud or Hefty Smurf.

[quote] Did Britain even know it had a Muslim problem in the 1980's? I doubt it

Enoch Powell knew Britain had a Muslim problem in the 1960's.

Powell was prescient.

Tintin is more famous than Hercule Poirot.

Walloon and, to a lesser extant, Picard, were widely spoken languages in Wallonia prior to the 20th century. Today, those languages are endangered, supplanted by Belgian French.

Not globally. Besides, TinTin is a cartoon.

Isn’t Audrey Hepburn the most famous Belgian?

Belgium is a country invented by the British to annoy the French.

[quote]Isn’t Audrey Hepburn the most famous Belgian?

I think she was born in Belgium because her (British) father worked for the Bank of England in Brussels at the time. Her mother was Dutch

Cute singer with a cute song. That guitarist’s moves crack me up, though.

r81 r88 So you had Belgian Christians plundering the Congo and Rwanda and brutalizing the Africans. And you have a handful of Belgian Muslims committing acts of terrorism.

I'd say overall the Belgian Christians have caused more damage to humanity.

Point is, don't blame all Belgian Muslims for the acts of a few.

The Belgian muslims in question, r127 didn't attack Belgium. They attacked France.

So your theory that islamic terrorism by muslims who chose to live in Belgium is a just response to the events by Belgians long dead is not only ridiculous and wrong, but in this case in no way applies to the facts of the attacks themselves.

[quote] Point is, don't blame all Belgian Muslims for the acts of a few.

Point is, R127, citizens should not have to have their lives disrupted, endure attacks, murders and bombings to satisfy empty-headed political agenda.

r128 I have no "theory" that Belgian Muslims are addressing colonial despotism. Where did I say that?

I said that you can no more blame all Belgian Muslims for the acts of a few terrorists then you can blame all Belgians for the rape of the Congo.

However, since all Belgians benefit from the institutionalized racism of the past, I'd say colonialism is a more serious issue than some Muzzie setting off a bomb in France.

Who blamed all Belgian muslims? No one except in your fantasies, r130.

[quote] That is what having the highest Muslim population in your capital city buys you. A safe zone for even the bloodiest of jihadis, a way to help them hide, escape, and perhaps live to throw a gay off a building another day.

r131 Yes, you Islamophobes are blaming the very presence of Muslims in Europe. Don't be disingenuous.

R130 has the same powers of reason as the guy who started the Spain vs Portugal thread. Another magnificent product of the USA educational system (rated last in the western world for many years).

[quote] you Islamophobes are blaming the very presence of Muslims in Europe.

R132 It sure wasn't the Jew, Xtians, Hindus and Buddhists who have spent decades of concerted and on-going effort bombing and terrorizing the civilian population of Western Europe. Now who's being disingenuous? Or should that be apologist/rationalizing/turning a blind eye?

Muslims are at war with non-Muslim Europe (to say nothing of with other Muslims). So yes, it is their very presence that should be blamed.

Muslims mutilate.

R115, read a little history and be educated before making such silly statements.

[quote] read a little history and be educated before making such silly statements.

r136 This is DL. I think you meant "thilly".

Do any of my fellow eldergays remember the fucking terrifying carousel in the Belgian exhibit at the World’s Fair?

[quote] Muslims mutilate.

Transvestites dilate.

This one, R138?

R90 I thought the rumors of torture were debunked

Stromae rules.

I spent an evening chatting with a Belgian surfer in Porto who kept talking about his girlfriend, not really realizing until after that he was trying to bed me.

Two Flemish boys in love. Cute short film from Belgium.

In college I frantically worked through the night to finish an Art History paper I was writing on Dutch Still Lifes, only to realize with an hour or two to go that half of my examples I had used were Flemish. Inspiration struck and I typed out a new cover title sheet about “Dutch and Flemish Still Lifes” and I was good to go, disaster adverted!

[quote] The most famous Belgian is fictional. What does that tell you?

It tells me you've never heard of Jean-Claude Van Damme. Or Django Reinhardt, or Toots Thielmans. Magritte, and Rubens. Or Maurice Maeterlinck (author of The Bluebird).

[quote] Muslims mutilate.

r135 So do Belgian doctors who perform sex change operations. One's okay and one's not? Once they cut up a penis and castrate a guy's balls, he can never get them back.

All Muslims do is cut off a foreskin, like Jews.

Matthias Schoenarts. Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.

I like that so many Belgians have a random "x" at the end of their surname.

R145, Have people already forgotten the great Jacques Brel?

R149 I thought he was alive and well and living in Paris?

I've only been to Brussels but I think it's lovely. Unique architecture, very walk-able, international vibe and great transport (direct trains to London, Paris and Amsterdam. I can't say much about the Belgian people except that they all speak 3-4 languages. Try not to think about Belgium's history in central African while you're enjoying the sights.

I know the Belgian Shepherd.

Just une question d'amour is a great gay movie about Belgium.

Like all Catholic countries, but more than most, Belgian understands decadence. Small wonder Neo-Gothic, Art Nouveau, Symbolism, Brutalism, and pedophilia were so big there. They love the colour grey and its shades quite like no other race, and its many subtle shades flood their interiors. So they're very sophisticated, but also neurotic and depressing. The whole country rests upon secrets, lies, and racial tensions. There's still a gilded statue in a park of King Leopold depicted like Christ cradling an African baby: I shit you not. It's like if Berlin still had a statue of Hitler cradling a Jewish child. Alan Hollinghurst's Death-In-Venicesque novel The Folding Star is set in Belgium, and gives a very good sense of mise-en-scene. Bloodless, blondish Dutch Belgians are very easy on the sophisticated eye, so one can well understand the obsession of his lead character Edward Manners for the Flemish youth.

As always Luxembourg is over shadowed and all but invisible, as if the Lux in BeNeLux hardly existed at all.

[quote]Luxembourg is over shadowed and all but invisible

As one of the world's great facilitators of money-laundering, so it should be.

A curious place for me with mixed feelings. I've not lived in Belgium but have spent months at a time over some years there.

Bruges, Ghent, other lesser cities like Leuven are beautiful and fascinating places. Elegant small hotels of thoughtful design uncluttered with the tacky trappings found in U.S. or UK counterparts are easily found and a pleasure. There is much appreciation of history and interest in design; cities are filled with smart shops in which to buy a smart sofa or an elegant modern lamp. Locals explain that the long cold damp winters brings a lot of focus onto people's homes and finding the perfect tile, etc. Any good day in summer everyone is in the streets to make up in some small way for all the grey, wet, unshakably damp winter days. It's also an antiques center with a lot of specialization: Medieval decorative arts, chic mid-century furniture and lamps and industrial aesthetic pieces...things of real quality. Art galleries are everywhere.

There's good food in Belgian seafood prepared simply. Otherwise Belgian food is a bit of a post-WWII time warp: overcooked, starchy, sad vegetables, viande chevaline is not hard to find, and all often rather expensive for the lack of finesse. Except for fresh and simple seafood I mostly avoid it because there are good, sometimes very good international options.

The level of cultural and social programming is impressive. Film festivals of all sorts, lectures, concerts of all sorts, raves, raves for families, museum programs, special exhibits in odd spaces, pedestrian streets covered in turf and benches and tables and chairs for the peak summer weeks, sand brought in to create a "beach" to walk along next to giant factories converted to museums, Belgian film premieres...huge lists of these things every day in Brussels and Antwerp. The priority given to arts and culture is impressive in it's many forms.

Belgium is small and it's easy to get to any corner if it and beyond by train and to any of its neighbors. Brussels is an international city obviously, not just for the EU but filled with Spanish and Italians working in the city, and with many people born in Brussels the child of at least one immigrant from elsewhere in Europe. Everyone speaks a couple languages at a minimum, and in the odd circumstance they don't overlap with yours a friend of stranger will jump in to facilitate. People are on the surface very polite, friendly, and helpful though many Belgians have family and sets of social circles that are very much seperate.

I know Brussels much better than Antwerp. The latter is the more interesting, grittier, more chaotic city in some respects, yet those elements oddly don't add much dimension beyond a hard edge to everything and everyone going about their disconnected business. Efficient and charmless and fractured.

Belgium is a place where one could live comfortably in quiet variations on routine, but not quite happily. Brussels has a self-satisfied tone to the place, not unlike Washington DC or the NYC attitude of smugness merely for having come to live there. Routine weighs heavily; it seems almost American in the attitude of adult friendship, "must run, but let's get together soon" when all the speaker is hurrying off to do is prepare a frozen pizza for one.

Besides endless garbage in the streets, the byproduct of an unhelpful system to tax garbage bags and their contents that means students or immigrants merely toss trash (even restaurant waste) into the street untagged. There's also a tension in the streets. Street crime is too big a factor and too often violent. Molenbeek is not just a neighborhood, it's an Arab woman having a shit-fit, stopping her car to jump out and scream at two men kissing that she has children who should not be exposed to such a sight, by drivers who force bicyclists off narrow streets just for the sport if it. It's not so easy a place to live in those respects.

As an aside, the coming of age film "CLOSE" which is currently up for best foreign film is Belgian. Absolutely devastating film. Well worth seeing, but bring tissues. Gay theme as well.

Thanks R157. You really convey well the tone and mentality, which is what one wants to read.

PlatonicCaveman has never heard about female genital mutilation.

North Sea beaches are beautiful and something like New England. It's too bad they built big buildings along some of them though.

Yes, one just wants a lone Art Nouveau hotel on the beach. Disappearing forever at Ostend if one was decadent used to be MADLY fashionable.

[quoet] PlatonicCaveman has never heard about female genital mutilation.

r160 Brain fart I guess. You're right. Barbaric. But so is male circumcision. It's very obvious that male circumcision was invented to curtail sexual enjoyment.

Cutting genitals--male and female--is barbaric even when it's done in the name of religion. Sick, unnecessary and cruel. Should be outlawed worldwide.

Belgians are ugly looking, freaky sexy pigs, with good chocolate, and a horribly brutal colonial past in Africa. What more is there to know?

[quote] It's very obvious that male circumcision was invented to curtail sexual enjoyment.

[quote] Sick, unnecessary and cruel. Should be outlawed worldwide.

It will never be outlawed worldwide because it's very obvious that 1.7 billion Muslims do not find "khitan" sick, unnecessary or cruel, nor do their find their sexual enjoyment curtained.

I’d love to ride this trolley.

Clang! Clang! Clang! Went the trolley!

[quote] It will never be outlawed worldwide because it's very obvious that 1.7 billion Muslims do not find "khitan" sick, unnecessary or cruel, nor do their find their sexual enjoyment curtained.

r166 Meh, it's a bizarre religious rite. Jews invented it, not Muslims. So of course it won't be outlawed.

Religion has tried many ways to restrain unbridled male sexuality. Many or most white middle class American males are cut too. If you suck white dick you should know.

Tell khitan or kitten if you've never had a great uncut orgasm you don't what you're missing.

Genital cutting is barbaric and nothing short of mutilation even when done for religious reasons.

R170 Agreed.

R169 Sumerians actually "invented" it, not Jews. It's depicted in great detail in their carved stone tablets C. 1800 BCE. Egyptians later followed this example, C.2200-2300 BCE.

Belgium just seems like a country that could really benefit from a much better and prominent international travel campaign and perhaps some of the E.M. Forester/Henry James period movie adaptations that paint a romantic view of the country and makes you want to visit the way those two did for Italy. What were the great American and British writers and novels that were set in Belgium in the past?

I love Brussels. I felt like I was on the set of Les Miserables.

Also, the best restaurants in Europe are in Brussels.

r171 Circumcision as practiced by Muslims, comes from the Jewish tradition, not the Sumerians.

^^Barbarians mutilate

[quote] Circumcision as practiced by Muslims, comes from the Jewish tradition

R174 It's LAW, not "tradition".

Where Muslim khitan comes from is irrelevant. There are 1.7 billion Muslims practicing it. Power in numbers, and why it will never be outlawed. Anywhere.

Enough about genital mutilation, I want to know where I can find the best beer, chocolate and fries in Ghent, Brussels, Bruges and Antwerp.

And waffles. How could I forget the waffles?

Don't forget the sprouts!

Lets compromise and post about circumcised Brussels sprouts.

Mussels, potatoes, and of course eels. Waterzooi - the famous cream fish or chick stew from Ghent.

R173 Some of my best experiences dining out in Europe were in Brussels.

R174 Regardless, you typed Jews invented it... we did not. Many aspects of Judaism were borrowed or copied from early Canaanite and Sumerian traditions, lore, and legends. Many scholars believe the Jews had copied or were influenced by the Sumerian idea of it all. Either way, it's repellant when done to infants.

R180 Brilliant suggestion! Artichokes need to be circumcised as well.

The Instagram blog "Ugly Belgian Houses" is a winner.

Wow, R183, who knew Belgium was home to so many UGLY homes? I assume the world wars flattened all the old beautiful buildings and that's when they built all this ugly modern stuff in its place?

[quote] Regardless, you typed Jews invented it... we did not. Many aspects of Judaism were borrowed or copied from early Canaanite and Sumerian traditions, lore, and legends. Many scholars believe the Jews had copied or were influenced by the Sumerian idea of it all. Either way, it's repellant when done to infants.

r182 Everything is borrowed from everybody. In terms of the Abrahamic religions, which include Judaism and Islam, the Jews invented it. They linked it to the god of all three Abrahamic religions.

And I've told you why it was done - to inhibit male sexuality.

[quote] They linked it to the god of all three Abrahamic religions.

R185 Circumcision is law solely for Jews. The other "Abrahamic religions" are thieves who stole something most certainly not meant for them. Blame the thieves, not the victim of thief.

[quote] Circumcision is law solely for Jews. The other "Abrahamic religions" are thieves who stole something most certainly not meant for them. Blame the thieves, not the victim of thief.

r186 If you're Jewish enough to own circumcision, are you Jewish enough to follow the Leviticus ban on homosexuality?

R187 There is no ban on homosexuality in Vayikra. You are a fountain of complete ignorance, especially when it comes to Jews and their laws. No surprise.

Been to Brussels, Bruges, Ghent, Antwerp, Knokke (by the sea), Liege, and assorted points amongst. Loved Belgium.

The beers, mussels, frites, and, yes, chocolates were the best, from restaurant to street stand. Of course, the architecture of the main squares and old sections is stunning, particularly of Brussels and Bruges [See: "Bruges, In"; "Men, The Monuments"; "Chocolate, Love, Romance, &"].

I experienced Belgian kindness on my first trip, 1973: My (late) husband and I were to visit some American friends living in Rixensart, a suburb of Brussels. Trying to figure out our means, we were offered a ride by a gentleman who had overheard us while we were all in a local store. On the way, he offered us food from his purchase. He refused recompense.

Of our friend's house, we were impressed by its modernity. One example I finally incorporated in my own home in 2016: blinds within the windows, in my case inside a patio door to a deck.

On our last visit, we flew Sabena into Brussels. On our day of departure, we took the wrong train to the airport, got off some stops in, walked a bit back, got the correct train, but arrived at the airport too late to board, as I had not called to confirm (by then I was the planner). Next plane? Next day. Yikes! We had no money! Finally we were told we could board as "Stand-by." But wait! Maybe this was some freaky bad omen! Thus, we did the only rational thing: each of us had bought ourselves a souvenir pound of chocolates, so we ate them!

Female genital mutilation is basically the equivalent of chopping off your penis. Hardly comparable to male circumcision.

The Muslim idea of FGM is that a woman cannot be allowed to masturbate, because the sex only belongs to the husband.

Totally sick and perverted!

R21 / R30 / R34 etc., I was going to start this post with "Shut up. Just shut the fuck up"; but I won't.

Here's the thing: many Muslims in Europe just DO NOT WANT to assimilate. They are AGAINST local values and culture, and want NOTHING to do with those.

I was born in Brazil, grew up partly in the United States. My mother is French, my father is Swedish - I've said this before. My ex-wife is Salvadoran (I'm a woman). I am in downtown São Paulo, Brazil, right now. Some DLers might know exactly what this means (if not, Google is your friend).

That is all to say: I see and live diversity every day, and have done so all my life, in practice, not in theory. The current situation in Europe regarding Muslims in general has fucking nothing to do with "Europeans can't deal with diversity". And to answer your question, no, they're not going to fucking assimilate in the next 20-50 years - they won't, because they DON'T WANT TO. I don't need a time machine or a crystal ball to know this, and neither do (or should) you.

If you can't see all that, I can't help you.

All I know is those Belgians and their damn airline killed the entire 1961 US Figure Skating Team—rat bastards.

I see Sweden, I see France, I see São Paulo’s underpants!

Wow-

All eighteen members of the 1961 U.S. Figure Skating team lost their lives,[8] as well as sixteen other people who were accompanying them, including family members, professional coaches, and skating officials.[12] Among the fatalities were nine-times U.S. ladies' champion, turned coach, Maribel Vinson-Owen and her two daughters: reigning U.S. ladies' champion Laurence Owen, aged sixteen, and her 20-year-old sister, reigning U.S. pairs champion Maribel Owen,[8][13] both of whom had won gold medals at the 1961 U.S. Figure Skating Championships in Colorado Springs just two weeks earlier. Laurence Owen was the cover story for the February 13 issue of Sports Illustrated,[14] just two days before her death.

Sabena. Such. A. Bloody. Exprrience. Never. Again.

Sabena and Varig both.

Did Varig ever kill an entire figure skating team? No—

…but maybe a Samba dance group or a posse of plastic surgery patients?

What's a "Samba dance group"?

As for the top-notch plastic surgery, you're welcome.

You're welcome for the state-of-the-art jets, too - the United States Air Force uses Brazilian aircraft to fly their cargo both domestically and overseas.

[quote]All I know is those Belgians and their damn airline killed the entire 1961 US Figure Skating Team—rat bastards.

Did the friends of Tonya Harding have anything to do with the Belgian airline. Tonya denied any personal involvement.

drag race belgium is cute

Belgians are downright weird. So are the Finns. Two nationalities to avoid.

R196. Sounds cray - cray (!). That “Varig” joke reply triggered you?!

R198 see ^

R196 my bad

R184 Those aren't average homes, they're the ugliest homes. Every country has ugly homes, if you want to pick them out and feature them.

Most underrated country in Europe. Hard to find a bad meal. Art cities without peer and all within an hour of each other. Plus they really love Americans because they remember the wars.

In Belgium all seems to breathe freedom and peace and to make one forget the world and its sad turmoils.

[quote] There is no ban on homosexuality in Vayikra. You are a fountain of complete ignorance, especially when it comes to Jews and their laws. No surprise.

r188 I'm an atheist. So I guess there's no ban on homosexuality in "Vayickra" because homosexuals are put to death, right?

From the good Rabbi, you apologist for religious bigots:

[quote] HOMOSEXUALITY IN ORTHODOX JUDAISM Rabbi Dr. Nachum Amsel THE CLASSIC TORAH VIEW OF HOMOSEXUALITY The Torah clearly states its views about the act of homosexuality. The act of homosexuality, i.e. two men having sexual relations, is prohibited (SOURCE #1). The act is twice called a ìToaiva- an abominationî and it is such a severe sin, that it merits the death penalty in a Jewish court system

You can fool yourself but you can't fool the rest of us.

This eldergay will be representing Belgium at Eurovision this year. You can intuit from this video what's wrong with the Belgians -- they're like the French, but everything is off in some subtle yet monstrous way.

And I'll never understand Belgian fashion. The proportions are always fucked in some needless way.

I know a Belgian woman, late - very late - of the EU where she was once a high official. She fancies herself as an expert on foreign policy which was not her field. She is not an expert in anything but attempting to burnish accounts of her career. She's past 90, decrepit, nasty, and bitter. She has a townhouse in Brussels, an enormous pension, and good art. Her children hate her. Her second husband was in the Wehrmacht in WW2 and lost a couple of toes to frostbite in Russia. He was a much, much nicer person. There are only two people on this earth I won't speak to under any circumstances and she's one of them.

Also, the Belgians had a bad war.

r209 What the fuck, she sounds like a nightmare. And she's past 90? Can the bitch just die already, I hate her just from reading that.

Sorry, I didn't know that film at R10 didn't have English subtitles. It is available with them.

[quote] Also, the Belgians had a bad war.

How’s that?