Fake ‘radical feminist’ group a paid political front for anti-LGBT organization

Freepers and TERFS are gross:

This is not the first time TERFs have worked with anti-feminist/LGBT groups in targeting transgender kids. In 2014, TERF attorney, Cathy Brennan and her “radical feminist” organization worked with the anti-abortion/LGBT group the Pacific Justice Institute (PJI) in targeting a 15 year old trans girl, resulting in the youth being placed on a medical suicide watch.

OP's linked article says that WoLF doesn't do anything but anti-trans stuff. They're lying. Here's one issue they work on.

Here's another.

So what makes them a "fake 'radical feminist' group"? That article is sourced from Pink News, which has a certain reputation.

Shocking! Not. Prob same trolls on here that keep talking about trans issues (always negatively). Also wouldn’t be surprised if foreign adversaries (read: Russia and possibly China) are sponsoring this shit.

These are the same trolls who come here, like R2/R3. The push ideologies and framing lifted directly from conservative groups. They're so easy to spot but so many here either fall for it stupidly or knowingly join in. For decades on end the common enemies of feminists and gays were conservative moralizers, but now we're supposed to side with them to fuck over trans people. Fucking morons fall for this.

I believe there are a LOT of these Wolf type members on Datalounge. Not just from that group but also other similar groups.

We are really pissing them off at the moment so they have doubled down on their efforts.

When challenged; they eventually resort to very easy to see through trolling techniques which most of us can see from a mile off. Posting the same threads over and over, saying the same thyings like a script, accusing everyone else of being sock puppets, answering questions with questions, endless pretending and innocence about what they're doing, ignoring critical posts about themselves and the endless deflections, feigned stupid questions and accusations of misogyny.

They are here to divide so we fall apart bickering and then when everybody out there hates LGBT people enough - they'll come for us hard to roll back decades of our work on gay rights just like they did with abortion. And they're in it for the long haul.

They are utterly disgusting sub-humans and they HATE gay men with a burning passion - just as much as they hate transgender people.

We just HAVE to wise up about this.

The biggest clue for me about these trolls is that when trans topics pop up naturally in threads about other topics, like popular tv shows or movies, the in-thread reactions are very different, usually supportive or just indifferent. Like normal gay people irl, in other words. Such a stark difference when you witness that on DL versus trans-specific threads, which would give the impression that gay people on DL overwhelmingly loathe trans people. It's obvious the trolls dedicate themselves to (and clearly often originate) the threads about trans people, which they fill with hateful nonsense presented as just normal gay opinions, and pretty much ignore the other threads.

In this video, a trans youtuber, talks about shocking comments that Dr. Marci Bowers (the president of WPATH) made about puberty blockers and how they harm kids:

TLDR: They're making kids infertile and unable to ever have an orgasm in adulthood.

Whenever you see someone posting stridently about "LGBs," you've spotted one of these trolls.

^ troll as previously described. Also these freaks keep upvoting themselves.

Meant r8, not r9

This article is from 2017.

Take a peek at OP's history.

Humor, whimsy, wit, and playfulness are missing.

It's really sad.

r12 earlier this month, you had members of the WDI along with Posey Parker aligning with an anti-abortion group to discuss these issues. And of course, Posey has been aligned with many such groups over the years quite openly.

R14 I thought she was great in The House of Yes.

r15

It's evergreen, R12.

R16

Rose, it was a joke.

Her name is similar to Parker Posie, the comedic actress.

You don't say...

OP is mad because the tide has turned

Regular folks are standing up to men in wigs jerking off in the women's restroom

Let the sad story of Nicola Sturgeon be a cautionary tale

In the real world people “cross the isle” all the time to work with someone who they agree with on an issue. In my home state the turnpike authority is trying to build a new turnpike that would destroy a number of homes and residential areas. People who are extreme right and extreme left have come together to try and stop it. I mean these people don’t agree on 90% of the other sides position, but are willing to work together to stop a turnpike.

it's entertaining to find their fights with lesbians.. it's often goes unnoticed but they're quite vicious to them on social media...

like say the activist of "Take The L Out" that has a low tolerance for women that are actually attracted to other females and use the word "lesbian" instead of what they believe is the authentic definition:

[quote] ANGELA C. WILD: I became a Lesbian feminist in 2013. I use Adrienne Rich’s definition of the term, “Lesbian feminist”: a woman whose feminist politics, consciousness, and sexuality are interlinked and developed together; a woman who sees heterosexuality as an oppressive institution for women. As a woman who was trapped in heterosexuality for a huge part of my life, when I heard about the “cotton ceiling” in 2012, I was outraged and saw it immediately as an assault against Lesbians’ right to sexual boundaries, as well as an assault against every woman’s right to sexual boundaries, as it pushes compulsory heterosexuality on women. My lesbianism and my critique of the trans ideology developed simultaneously and are inherently linked.

It's the same Julia as OP's article in the video here, recorded 12th February 2023 10am UK time :

r20 The tide has turned?

also to be found on r23 is their founder Sheila Jeffreys... do listen to her opinions on gay men and lesbians.

[quote]This article is from 2017.

Yes, yet it's so relevant to what goes on in DataLounge.

^ feel free to contrast with John Lauritsen's account of these kind of groups (he's not pro-trans in the slightest, if that helps you any)

Politicians gravitate to the issues that resonate the most with voters. There's no reason or benefit to challenging trans extremism unless it's winning issue with the public.

r28 the anti-lgb aspect is winning with the public, at least the rightwing,and thus, you believe in majority rule?

r29, I said what politicians do. I am not a politician.

r30 and I was questioning what you believe.,. as you're attempting to justify all these alliances through that statement and bypass answering in any difficult questions, are you not?

r30 Let's put this way, do you feel the subject of this thread is defending trans or pointing out the uncomfortable alliances, perhaps primary (or secondary) motives of said groups... this deal with the devil so to speak that grants them power over a vulnerable community, one which they routinely attack and rarely interject any so called progressive, liberal or even feminist values upon their rightwing counterparts?

Will you always side step any allegation with a refocus towards trans and screaming don't look behind the curtain because Trump or a similar proxy has you by the pussy?

Poor hard-done-by R13 the eternal victim.

You don't like getting called out on your shit do you. No - you don't like it one bit.

I stand by every word of my posting history. We want you gone.

R33

The reason I bring up your lack of humor, is because you don't seem like any gay guy I've ever met.

Especially on DL, gay men are known for their wit, dad jokes, quips, funny stories, wry comments, and puns.

There is no playfulness in your demeanor. none. What's up with that, Blanche.

Gay men of a certain age get campy humor. We know how to make each other laugh.

Have you ever been able to do that?

That's the key to understanding that you're not an actual gay dude. You might "identify" as a gay man, but sweetie if you don't have a dick, you're not a gay man.

Sorry, babe.

Make up as many stories as you like R34. Nothing you say to me bothers me.

You don't like being called out on your violent obsessive hatred and your shitting all over another group of people do you. You don't like it one bit.

Leave. Go back to Reddit. Oh that's right - you told us that Reddit won't have you there either so that's why you joined and paid at DL during the Xmas month of primetime. Seems like everybody hates you everywhere and wants you gone though... I wonder why?

r34 so, gay men are incapable of being dull and only exist to entertain you?

R35 Do you have a penis? Not an arm-skin fruit roll-up. A real penis?

By the way sweetie, I'm still on reddit. I explained in the other thread how our gay and lesbian subs got taken over by the chicks with dicks.

Actual gay men don't like our spaces taken from us.

I used to hang out on DL years ago and just found my way back late last year. I gotta say, the anti-trans rhetoric on this site surprised me. I don't even know any trans people, so on one hand this isn't personal for me. On the other hand, it is. The people who hate us hate them, for the same made-up, stupid reasons. Read the New Yorker article about how Christopher Rufo came up with CRT as the next big pearl-clutching non-issue for bigots to lose their minds over. And the legislation follows. Their focus is on trans people right now, and then they're coming for us. And some of you may feel you have nothing in common with trans people and you're vastly superior to them. The far-right does not see any nuance between LGB and T. As the anti-trans bills pass across the country the bills like Don't Say Gay will follow. Trans people are not our enemies.

The only way I can enjoy DL is to assume that the anti-trans rhetoric on this site is a right wing op, or just one or two really batshit insane, self-hating gay men.

r37 so, then all the more why we shouldn't be pulled into this fight between two groups (trans and terfs) that believe they're entitled to our spaces and then proceed to make demands of us because of their anger at the other. They can pull themselves up by bra/compression straps and find another battleground.

R38 Babe, all of us see Rufo and DeSantis as a threat. We are in agreement on that point.

Please stop lumping actual gay men in with those right-wing loons.

And we're not the ones who are "self-hating". It's your crowd who are trying to trans fem gay boys and butch tomboys. Stop doing that to gay and lesbian youth.

^ really, neither group seems all that fond of gay men but desperate to use as pawns...

r40 but you're perfectly ok with rightwing aligned radical feminists that identify as lesbian and actively harass "butch" women (despite looking 'butch' themselves) and suggest that all gay men are deviants and predators at the very root of rans

r40 Again, so many of these public figures attach back to Sheila Jeffreys and the vast majority of them subscribe to her theories on gay men, gay politics and sexuality... in such that they believe we're all AGPs.

This is a political schism that says if gay men are masculine they're toxic and contributing to the patriarchy and yet suggests if they're effeminate then their essentially trans... there's really no space they allow us to exist. Likewie, they actively want and act upon trying to overturn out rights and liberties...

^ a group that polices and condemns gay male sexuality for sure but extends this to same sex attracted lesbians they believe have been corrupted by gay men.

It's Russian in origin. If you google Anti trans movement origin you can find some articles that go indepth. It is a far right tool to create a unified front. They engage both the Christian and the Conservative voters. The far right is using it in the UK and the US and OZ. A certain Media Mogul is the major promoter. Two UK tabloids have a quota that their journalists have to fill of Anti trans articles.

[...]

R35, show me one radical feminist who has been violent towards a trans person.

R41, who are all these radical feminists attacking butch women?

To the person who brings up Shelia Jeffreys in every trans thread and posts the same video (I'm surprised you haven't done it yet). She's a retired academic and you act like she's the head of some huge cult. She doesn't have the influence that you seem to think she has. There are much bigger fish to fry.

R47 Yeah, I blocked the Shelia troll. It was amazing how much nonsense disappeared from my feed when I did that.

I had never heard of her before seeing her name on DL.

[quote] They're so easy to spot but so many here either fall for it stupidly or knowingly join in.

I am so embarrassed by some of the DL regulars who've fallen for their transparent shit. I won't name names but GULLIBLE much?

r47 I've already pointed out how she's connected to all these major figures in the movement, dear. Virtually every talking head and organization can be traced back to Sheila Jeffreys. They're bloody up there in a video through the organization she founded. She's been cited for decades and she's still active in her non profit WDI, which has multiple branches and still active herself.

r47 Lesbians speak of the problems of "political lesbians" and frequently have requested they choose another term, obviously, that often results in insults and attacks. Along with that basic sexual interaction, even down to attraction is not only questioned but often invalidated by these women that attempt to co-opt the name lesbian.

dealing with these intentionally obtuse nitwits is like dealing with the alt-right.., it truly it is, the amount of games they play and pretending they don't know shit about their own movement, any of the people or organizations involved, absolutely no knowledge of decades of material, research that is actively circulated within their own social media groups... and trying to downplay it all.

You can have them on video, saying exactly what they feel, think, believe and they'll claim it's fake news.

^ and then, of course, create a thread highlighting all the same people over and over again. Like Angela Wild's numerous protests.... they'll call her lesbian without the modifier despite her very low opinion of actual lesbians.

Hmmm, but how shall we tell the fake homophobic, transphobic, right-wing, essentialist radical feminists from the real homophobic, transphobic, right-wing, essentialist radical feminists?

This cartoony, demonic characterisation of gender critical (GC) gay men is ridiculous. Yeah, sorry, but I don't actually personally know ANY GC gay men who "hate" trans people, or who want to harass them or treat them like shit, or exclude them from our lives. I do know plenty of gay men who are sick of seeing sexual entitlement rhetoric and shaming bullshit aimed at pressuring us into sex with female bodied people who identify as "gay men." I do know many gay men who hate that homosexuality was redefined by orgs and activists and academics without our permission or feedback to include female bodied people. Sorry but I'm not "same gender attracted". If you've never heard any of your friends say anything like this it just means they don't trust you enough to be honest. But no, I don't hate trans people, I don't want them to suffer and I don't want them to feel unwelcome, and you need to get over that idea.

[quote]I do know plenty of gay men who are sick of seeing sexual entitlement rhetoric and shaming bullshit aimed at pressuring us into sex with female bodied people who identify as "gay men."

Where are you all going where trans men are demanding sex from you? This have literally never happened to me or any gay man I know and I've never seen anyone on DL say that gay men who won't have sex with trans men are bigots. Where is all this happening??

r55 pointing out the ties of various groups and their alliances with homophobic organizations, if not outright homophobic themselves, routinely promoted in threads during the brigading waves of trans threads here is not demonization of people simply for being gender critical.

R56 We're so glad you woke up from that coma. A lot has happened in the last five years.

here ya go:

r58 Should we borrow logic from you lot?

That's just a youtuber, a fringe person that most people in the world don't know. It seems like you're just demonizing based on getting stuck in an echo chamber where you believe that's reality. Have you sought therapy?

Wait. ALL the transphobia on this board is because of...a Davey Wavey video?

Please. Turn your phones off and go outside. Breathe some fresh air. Clear your heads.

What about this:

r62 And do you believe that justifies homophobia from those against trans? Are you calling out homophobia from your peers? Are you questioning the organizations that claim to be pro-lgb but actively work against lgb issues, rights and liberties?

Those TERF cunts must be autistic. How else can you explain someone who writes multiple paragraph posts, saying the same exact thing, everyday, for a decade?

r62 Or is just a scam, hence, none of you address the issues with these groups and when not dismissing it or attacking others for revealing it, you only believe it's valid when it comes from a group you disapprove of?

hence, you don't call out the often conservative and religious organizations that believe homosexuality is an abomination that platform those organizations and likely only see them as a means to an end?

The TERFS and the TRANS should kill each other and just leave the rest of us alone from having to endure your psychobabble gender talk.

[quote] I don't even know any trans people, so on one hand this isn't personal for me.

And that's the point, isn't it? If you don't know any actual living breathing trans people it's much easier to dehumanise them. I think this is why GCs rarely talk about actual trans people (unless there is a hook around violence, security or deception to exploit) and prefer to instead talk about 'gender ideology' like it's some scary amorphous thing lurking in toilets, brainwashing kids, hiding on social media, invading intimate spaces, fucking around with language, threatening kid's bodies, coming for our porn, WTF are they actually hiding in their knickers and basements, etc. - it's all just trans as danger, chaos, security, risk, threat, and deception and if you don't agree you're just as bad. GCs exploit and weaponise not knowing.

R62: That cache of over 5000 examples of homophobic abuse and sexual entitlement rhetoric from gender people always kills these conversations stone dead. People just either flee or change the subject or play whataboutery games. They never address the evidence.

R68 Nice try.

Blanche, I listen to trans folks like Sara Higdon, KC Miller and Buck Angel.

They are constantly bullied by trans activists.

r69 dearie, pot calling the kettle as you lot still refuse to address all this.

nobody approves of that one either.

Instead you just play the typical game of distract, deny and delegitimize...

we can look anywhere and find the connection of every major organization and personality being connected to anti-lgb organizations. . .

so, as long as you continue, so do we.... ad nauseam.

You'll continue to believe it's the transtapho working against you because you can't possibly believe that anyone would have a problem with anti-lgb element if it meant getting rid of the T... or as more obvious, that's the beginning and end goal. . . that trans makes a convenient proxy.,

r70 and terfs as well.

r70 you could skip over to Gender Dysphoria Alliance and see where the majority of their harassment comes despite being TRA critical.

R71: What's your solution to the terrible homophobia problem as evidenced in that cache? Do you have one?

r73 What's your solution to the terrible homophobia problem as evidence throughout this thread? Do you have one? Do you regularly call out your GC peers for their homophobia, do you attempt to discuss the issues with them or do you just let it slide, afraid you'll be excommunicated, silenced, abandoned, called a tranny lover for daring to point out the elephant in the room?

r73 How far right have you moved? Are you American? Will you be voting republican in 2024 given the Democrat's stance on T?

R74: False premise. I don't have any homophobic peers. Haven't had any since leaving high school. Other GC people may have homophobic allies, as you suggest. You need to speak to them directly.

R75: I'm nowhere on the political right and have never voted conservative.

r76 So, you don't call it out or you don't consider them homophobic because they hate the sin but love the sinner?

OMG these bitches are so fucking boring!! Is this what a heated Women's Studied seminar sounds like?

R78: What are you talking about? Can you read? I just told you I don't ally with these people you are referring to, and none are my peers. When there's no relationship and no interaction to begin with its a false premise.

r79 Yes, pretty much... all histrionics, all the time.

r80 So, you don't call it out in the larger movement because you exist in a tiny echo chamber?

R80: I'm not in any organisation or any "movement" I'm an individual calling out homophobia from gender people, because I'[m constantly exposed to it and it can no longer be ignored. You need to stop wasting my time and yours by pretending not to hear me.

r83 see no evil, hear no evil... well, let's not get to speak.

How grand it must be to live in a world untouched by the surrounding politics. How did you manage that?

you lot don't respond to the rest of it except with denials and attacks, so why shouldn't we play your game too?

r83 seriously, how is it you can be plugged into all this and not know about any of it?

How did you get into it? Too much fox news?

R80 Heads up, bud.

There are two main trolls on DL. The commenter you're talking to is one of them. He has stated that he's the "both sides troll" and will do anything and everything to provoke others on DL.

R84: I've indulged you repeatedly now you indulge me, without deflection and whataboutery. Just the one single time. The contents of that cache - does it bother you and if not why not?

R86: Thank you for the heads up.

r87 I've already stated.

r86 both sides as in political.,. yes, I can view multiple sides of an issue and politics. I know, foreign concept for you.

so r87 r86 Why is it you deny the anti-lgb extremism in the wider movements against trans? Are you afraid of the surrounding impact? Do you assume everyone that does have concerns is trans or a troll?

r87 r86 What do you say of those that post threads with said organizations and individuals, should we alert people as to their backgrounds, anti-lgb politics and associations or ignore it because stopping trans matters more?

r86 Also, I'm the music troll. The Porn troll. The Let's be troll. The St. Celestia Troll. The Generations Troll. The I can't believe it's not butter troll.

Divide and Conquer scheming done by right wing groups in attempted stealth mode? On social media platforms? Will wonders ever cease?

And here I thought DL's anti-trans troll is genuine! /s

r93 Nice try on the inversion. Nobody is buying it, farmer.

r94, get lost, Boris.

r95 But then where would you be without me?

r38: [quote]The only way I can enjoy DL is to assume that the anti-trans rhetoric on this site is a right wing op, or just one or two really batshit insane, self-hating gay men.

It's a concerted rightwing op, for sure. You just need to see the number of likes any of their posts get in record time—it's like there's an army (or troll factory) full of them, just waiting to post and like posts designed to instil a hatred and mistrust for the trans community, a wedge issue being deployed to create discord and splintering.

Strange how the anti-trans posts slow to an almost complete stop when DL is in lockdown mode and only real subscribers can contribute.

Trans is a made up issue to give right wing bigots to push for anti LGBT legislation (cue to the village idiots claiming that LGBT doesn't exist). Just look at the bigots using drag queens to ban books.

Every Liberal sees right through these social media trolls.

Sorry, ... to give right wing bigots an excuse to push for anti LGBT legislation ...

I remember reading radfem literature from the 1970s when I was in college in the 1990s and being shocked to find out that many of the radfems of the day aligned themselves with the Religious Right, because they both agreed on some issues like pornography and prostitution.

I also remember being stupid and naive and thinking that it was great that we had moved passed that kind of thing. Guess not!

The idea of linear progress is absolutely a delusion. History is a series of steps back as well as forward. In my own life I've seen widespread homophobia fall in the early 90s and then go dormant for decades, only to recently come back in the last 5 years.

[quote]The only way I can enjoy DL is to assume that the anti-trans rhetoric on this site is a right wing op, or just one or two really batshit insane, self-hating gay men.

r38, honestly, a lot of it are two old-timers: Davida and Matt A., who went by "Attmay" for a long time. There is also another person who went by PPSM who was virulently anti-trans, and who announced several times that they were going to use all their sock puppet accounts to FF and get banned anyone who didn't hate trans like they did. He may or may not be here anymore, it's hard to tell, he's completely fucknuts crazy but smart enough to hide himself. The other two aren't.

The reason people who fight back against these anti-trans trolls get grayed out and sometimes even red tagged is because those people are involved. They all learned how to game the system, and they do.

That's also why a lot of those trans threads are 100% hate, because no one wants to deal with the irritation of getting a timeout or a ban, so normal people stay away. Then on threads like this, you get normal DLers posting, and it becomes clear that there's a troll brigading effort that's causing most of the problems.

How do just two people have all the time, energy, and perseverance to continually inundate DataLounge with this level of anti-trans crap, R102?

And, how did you figure all of this out? I'm impressed.

r103, honestly, they told us what they were doing. Davida used to brag about how she organized her various accounts, PPSM is in IT and used to post about how he used scripts to spam DL and also manipulate the FF and WW options. Matt would tell us he was going to FF a thread to get it deleted, and sure enough, it would be deleted. They were all also posting about how much they hated trans people with accounts that were verifiably theirs.

There was no detective work involved, it's just that I had run-ins with all three of them and distinctly remember these incidents happening. It's very possible there are others who did the same but because I didn't personally see it, I have no idea who they are or how involved they are.

This thread will be all about: 'Everything I don't like is right wing!', pathetic.

Still, Humans can't change sex.

'Transwomen'are men.

'Transmen' are women.

r105 No one has disputed the aspect of trans. All they've done is made people aware of the connections of the major faces and organizations at the forefront of this movement... which is a movement, especially given that said individuals focus on little to nothing else. . . and the majority of connections remain rightwing and the politics frequently are anti-lgb as well as anti-t.

What I find absolutely gross is that every person who announces he or she is trans now is declared vulnerable and is of course not to be contradicted, while actual women and men who absolutely have a right to have spaces segregated by sex, not gender, are belittled, demonized and called literally Hitler. There was a workshop about women in leading positions the other day, hosted by the Greens where I live. One of the speakers: A trans politician. "She" got internet famous for "her" breakdown in parliament, ugly crying in a way that would make Viola Davis jealous, in a bad blond wig. I am absolutely supporting this person having every right in the world to vote, get elected, marry, wear ugly wigs and ugly crying all he wants. (I am not even opposed to the majority of the political statements he utters). I will, however, not call him a woman. "She" has no shared experience with me whatsoever. It's just mansplaining all over again. Forcing everyone to play pretend is not going to end well for the ones who demand and support it, and you don't have to be a rocket scientist to see it.

r107 and what does that have to do with anti-lgb organizations posing as anti trans groups?

How do you feel about these straight women that claim to be lesbians but suggest that lesbian sexuality, attraction and most sexual acts is male sexuality and the only true lesbians are those make the "choice" and do it to protest the patriarchy?

[quote]I am so embarrassed by some of the DL regulars who've fallen for their transparent shit. I won't name names but GULLIBLE much?

I'm in a real fuckin' bad mood this morning and I kind of want to name four of these guys who I happen to know off the top of my head, but also do not want (a) to get the thread deleted because GOSH that sure happens a LOT lately, how ODD, and (b) don't want someone to pester me into "revealing my detective work" when my "detective work" is really "I have a good memory and remember things whether I want to or not."

I've been threatened, called names, dealt with a shit ton of homophobia, and been given timeouts and bans from you anti-trans trolls, and I'm supposed to think you're a victim because some shitposter online called you "Hitler" once? Give me a damn break.

R100 yeah, and they've gone back to that well, their latest thing is that porn is turning men trans (or, as they would have it, into 'AGPs'.

Riddled all the way through radfem logic is hatred and fear of all male sexuality, including male-male sexuality. They cannot see it as anything other than malign and dangerous.

R108 I know lesbians and I know political lesbians. What you are describing was really a thing, especially 10 years ago. Now everyone wants to be non-binary, many also for political reasons. There are definitely lesbians that claim that penetration is bad per se, and there are also lesbians like Anne Heche who state that being a lesbian is a choice. (This is not my stance; I think it's a load of bullshit. To be attracted to someone is something primal, illogical, and can only be framed, not controlled by reasoning.)

To your original question: People who declare simple things like "I don't want women on Grindr" or "I am a lesbian and I don't like cock" are being ostracized by their own community. It's also obvious to almost everyone how idiotic the stance "Everyone is who they say they are!" really is. That means: It's a perfect vehicle for ultra-conservatives to leech votes. They agree on this one thing but oppose many other achievements we fought for and take for granted - until they are abolished. The underlying problem, however, is the absolute demand of the Ts and the groups and parties associated with them to deny what's in front of their eyes and kneel to the new overlords. They force people who are now left alone to find new allies, however bad the alliance of convenience may be.

funny enough when trans++ exploded. the trans community became divided on the issue of dysphoria, the most common phrase used against ftm "truscum" was "t makes you gay" as the most visible trans on youtube at the time were ftm. We'd see this expand into an all-out war on the "old guard" truscum trans, where one old mtf site was targeted because they pushed the idea that "passing" was the goal and offered classes. They were also quite respectful of the broader lgb community, not that there wasn't clashes from time to time.

r112 I'm quite aware. Personally, I could say the problems with T is also something I've grown to feel about the L as well to a fair extent. But to say it is to be condemned as an incel. They can be ever so demanding and they've been known to present a revisionist history of Stonewall, too.

^ but politics makes strange bedfellows of us all, does it not?

I grew up largely surrounded by lesbians, maybe it was the comforts of a relatively small community but with adulthood and the broader community, I've found the lesbian community to be hostile to tepid on the day to day when there's looming thread immediately overhead. The politics of feminism often run counter to the politics of gay men and ofen retains elements of radical feminism perspective on gay men that attempts to dictate our sexuality to us.. and shame us for the expression of our gender.,..

the modern trans, identity and gender politics is just an exaggeration of that.. but the fundamentals have existed long before.

But again, I'm expected to bite my lip for the sake of unity.

funny that.

^ save when there's a looming threat overhead or our interests and goals otherwise meet. . .

these kind of divisions exist. We're all aware of it.

So, should I treat L like T?

I'm sure I could find some justifications for it but does it help any of us in the long run especially when we are a small fraction of society?

So, how do we improve the lines of earnest communication and improve relations in the broader community?

Trans activism is not compatible with gay and women's rights, Trans activism is both anti-gay and anti-women.

and SEX erasure and denial (by the trans activists) is one the major roots and cause of the problems.

r117 This is a thread about those organizations and personalities with anti-lgb views, do you have any concerns about that or do you support them as long as they target the T?

R13 reads like bad AI impersonating a DLer.

Oh please stop, r117. Now you’re just embarrassing yourself.

[quote] If you don't know any actual living breathing trans people it's much easier to dehumanise them.

I have a cousin who is a trans man, but he doesn’t try to play on a men’s sporting team, or try to use a men’s locker number and expose his genitals there, or try to attack anyone who misgenders him. That’s the difference between regular trans people like my cousin and the trans extremists, whose antics are what DL actually criticizes. The extremists always say any legitimate criticism of their actions is dehumanizing them.

Calling something extremist loses its meaning when it's applied to everything and everyone.

Are Drag Queens who read to children extremist? Apparently so, according the right wing.

Trans activists are being called extremists because of their activism? Sure, Jan.