Wade Robson and James Safechuck

James is a very good looking man.

How does he earn a living now?

Is it mainly through public speaking about his abuse, or does he have a regular day job?

He has a pretty nice house with a pool in LA.

Are there new developments? This story, and that interview, seems decades old. Hard to believe Jackson has been dead almost 14 years.

Developments? What are you expecting, r2.

It’s one of those things, nobody can ever say with certainty. I wonder if body language experts have analysed them? Not that that would be conclusive proof of their truth or deceit, but it can be quite easy to spot lying. Personally, I always thought Jackson was clearly a nutcase with severe developmental issues, but he always struck me as totally asexual.

A thought crossed my mind.

Since MJ and James Safechuck were secretly "married" in private, could he possibly have a claim to MJ's estate?

I'm not even kidding.

Twins, R3 .

Isn't it obvious R1? He's a professional "victim."

I believe James, he has nothing to gain and his body language and fragility shows he's honest. Wade is a scammer and I don't doubt him completely but he's an opportunist who associated with the Jacksons into adulthood.

Whether Michael had sex with them or not is besides the point. His relationship with boys are extremely inappropriate and exploitative. He broke a lot of boundaries and simply used these kids to live out some narcissistic childhood fantasy bullshit. He needed therapy but back then people didn't take that seriously especially religious people and black people. Michael grew up Jehovah's Witness, which is a cult. He simply built his own cult.

*was extremely inappropriate and exploitative

[quote] I believe James, he has nothing to gain and his body language and fragility shows he's honest.

I saw the same thing that you did, R8.

A very fragile and confused person, who's still trying to make sense of the chaos.

And the way he still speaks about it - as a straight, married man with kids - is the strangest part. At the 3:20 mark he says that this all happened:

[quote] "in the context of a loving, close relationship. It's just, 'I love this person and we're trying to make each other happy.' 'We're lovers and best friends.' 'You feel very connected to someone and love them intensely.'"

Most straight men could never express that sentiment so clearly, which is why I 100% believe James.

[quote]He simply built his own cult.

This is a really interesting way of framing the whole thing.

so the behaviour panel did do a video analysing their body language. These guys are usually very insightful although their videos are over long. I might watch a bit later.

No, they are two grifters.

Or do you really think they did all those interviews for free?

I really don't know. I've went back and forth on this. I think Wade is suspicious and James is just sympathetic. Ultimately I think its money motivated. However MJ was weird as hell, especially where kids were concerned.

They were sexually abused by an out of control freak. I believe them both.

It's important that they are heard. The white washing of MJ is in full swing and we must be reminded of this truth.

MJ was a piece of shit but so were the enablers that knew and allowed the abuse to continue.

Wade Robson was doing Michael Jackson tributes and then all of a sudden he made these claims. I think when MJ died, he stopped getting connections for money and then decided this was the best plan.

Wade Robson was MTV famous. He even has his own TV show.

I do, because Jackson had so many pedo red flags. The trying to be like a child, creating attractions for children, having child 'best friends' who slept in the same bed, the fact that most of them were boys of a certain age..

[quote]A thought crossed my mind. Since MJ and James Safechuck were secretly "married" in private, could he possibly have a claim to MJ's estate? I'm not even kidding.

Nope, because since he was underage it could not have been a legal marriage.

I watched the documentary, and they seem in earnest and believable, however they were so specific in dates/times/places that were proven to be indisputably false, it made me wonder. MJ's relationship with them was inappropriate at least, and although he "loved" children, he never seem to have relationships with little girls. I guess we'll never know.

How could you tell Michael Jackson had company?

There was a Big Wheels in the driveway.

Remembering dates/times/places wrongly is pretty common, so I don't see that as disproving them necessarily.

*changes pitch to MJ voice* “This is completely normal, I am just expressing my love! I love little boys! I don’t care what anyone says!”

I DEFINITELY believe Safechuck. Not sold on Robson.

Victims can be complex - so I definitely think that two things can co-exist e.g. Robson being out for the money *and* having been sexually abused.

But in the end it's a he said, he said thing, so you have to make up your own mind on who to give the benefit of the doubt to. A lot of sexual abuse cases don't have the kind of concrete evidence such as an actual video tape of it which would prove it one way or the other.

He rimmed them both. Lucky man!

Yes, and it is fucking vile that a glowing biopic is about to be made about the pedophile demon Jackson. Beyond gross. Next level evil really.

No. Michael just wanted kids (but not black ones). After he had his own he stopped hauling around white boys, chimps and Brooke Shields.

I have always believed them 100%.

r27 dangling them over balconies, dressing them up for the circus and becoming a bigger circus, selling them like oil to the highest bidder while his penis could still be identified out of a polaroid line up with children around the world

I believe them 100% as well.

When James Safechuck described Michael Jackson timing him to get dressed fast when if they were caught, and when Wade Robson described Michael crying to him for being cold, my stomach turned.

MJ is the Jimmy Savile of Britain. He got away with it for so long because he was hiding in plain sight.

R24 there is almost never any “evidence” in sexual abuse cases, and people use this fact to handwave it away. This thread being a perfect demonstration

r19 L&O:SVU had an episode based on his one female accuser and why they fell apart; electrolysis

[quote]No. Michael just wanted kids (but not black ones). After he had his own he stopped hauling around white boys, chimps and Brooke Shields.

This just isn't true: Jackson's oldest kids Prince and Paris were born 1997 and 1998 respectively.

But in May 2002, a documentary film crew led by Martin Bashir followed Jackson for several months. The documentary, broadcast in February 2003 as Living with Michael Jackson, showed Jackson holding hands and discussing sleeping arrangements with a 12-year-old boy. He said that he saw nothing wrong with having sleepovers with minors and sharing his bed.

So he was clearly still doing it after he had had kids of his own. But regardless, almost anyone who wants kids but doesn't have them yet still doesn't engage in bizarre and inappropriate behavior like that.

r30 He wasn't hiding at all. Have you not seen his music videos and tabloids? It was more complicated by America's racial history, the Jackson's being representative of the African American American Dream (some would say the last family) / Black Excellence (ignore cosby, etc),

r33 he copped to giving one or two wine as well as possessing numerous child "art books" (but they would be dismissed in the same way as germaine greer's "research" for "beautiful boy" or Szsusana's "butterfly kisses")

Agreed that it’s pretty vile they are bringing out a biopic to make money out of the man. I’m not even saying if he’s innocent or guilty, but whatever he got up to there was something seriously amiss, and it’s seriously misjudged to be celebrating his life while (presumably and most likely) completely skipping over the “controversial” bits.

[quote] germaine greer's "research" for "beautiful boy" or Szsusana's "butterfly kisses"

I googled both of these things and don't know what you're referring to? can you give me some links?

Beating a dead horse. Some are strong and move on and some do not. If MJ were just some poor guy in the neighborhood, they’d all be over the trauma.

r36 They were two academics (Szusana (better known as Z. Budapest) at one point did work publish with colleges, though not sure if she had a degree at the time and her book has long since been out of print. She's more known for her coven these days than her radicalism. She was a separatist that had a lot of kooky theories and fantasies, like vast sewer systems of semen to replace men... Butterfly Kisses was basically an instruction manual of how to introduce nude young girls to PL/separatism published in the late 60s. Germaine published a book on the young male form in 2003. her 'research' was far more graphic than the actual book, though. you can find that one more easily. )

another one would be kurt eichenwald (journalist) scouring cp to find a story. . . and eventually found Justin Berry. (keyword "eventually" ... Debbie Nathan, a once respected journalist, ended up destroying her career by pointing out the obvious red flags in his)

r37 male victims in general don't fair well in the public court. People still retain the idea that male victims grow up to become offenders.. though most don't really view them as victims at all. Heck, even advocacy groups groups have complained that even acknowledging male victims takes away funding from females... like prostate cancer steals from breast cancer. (yes, they made that argument, too.)

r36 Kurt would also later become defined for tentacle porn and then blaming it on his wife

They were both telling the truth. Why would anyone make that shit up? Their stories were identical and there were too many details for it not to be the truth.

Michael Jackson was a textbook case of a pedophile, except on a very grand scale. He had all of the typical behaviors of a pedophile.

I've said this before on other MJ threads, but imagine that there's a 40 year-old man who lives on your street who has a children's amusement park in his backyard and invited all the little boys in the neighborhood over to his house for sleepovers. The parents of all those boys would be calling the police in two seconds. Nobody would ever think that the 40 year-old man's behavior was normal. They would find him extremely creepy and disturbing.

I remember when this special aired on HBO and these guys were doing the interviews / publicity (2017).

At the same time, Streisand was doing interviews for her upcoming album, "Walls". She was asked about MJ and this special featuring his victims, and she answered (to the shock of many) 'Well, the boys grew up and turned out ok today'. (In other words, whatever he did to them didn't harm them in the long run). People went crazy when they heard her response (including me, and I'm a fan). Of course, her ass-kissing uber-fans who worship the ground she walks on (and she can do no wrong in their eyes) tried to cover up for her, and 'whitewash' her response - 'what she meant to say...'

A few days later, Streisand herself had to try and 'take back' what she said for the world to hear. She tried her best to say 'what I meant to say...' but no one was buying it. Her album 'Walls' was released soon after and it was D.O.A., becoming one of her worst selling albums of all time. No one was buying it or downloading it, despite the heavy promotion (and great reviews from the press). I truly believe she lost a lot of fans with that remark, and they decided to spend their money on other artists. (Her next two albums also failed miserably on the charts)

[quote] When James Safechuck described Michael Jackson timing him to get dressed fast when if they were caught, and when Wade Robson described Michael crying to him for being cold, my stomach turned.

They even mentioned "drills" on how to prepare if they were alerted to other adults approaching them during their private moments together.

How to get dressed fast, listening for bells which were set up to ring, if someone entered a certain hallway which was close by, and other nutty things like that.

MJ knew what he was doing was wrong, so he brainwashed the kids into believing that if he got in trouble, they would BOTH be in trouble.

He also set up an entire system for not getting caught.

In his diseased mind, it was all just a childish "game."

That's how twisted he really was.

James and Wade have a podcast, and they seem to be very active in the CSA community.

They have tons of expert guest speakers, and conduct some very in-depth panel discussions.

It's interesting how they've turned their pain into a life long mission of healing.

Yes, they are telling the truth. The specific details of Jackson’s grooming and the abuse are all coherent and compelling. Jackson’s documented behaviour with boys indicates that he was a paedophile.

Anybody who defends Jackson should not be allowed to work with children or have any oversight of them. If you think his behaviour was fine then you can’t be trusted.

Also, the other kid Jordan Chandler had a lot of similar descriptions and actions. He fucking piece of shit pedo had a MO. I doubt all these kids got together to invent stories that largely all lined up.

We've got to move these color TVs...

MJ is not the only monster in this story. The parents handed the kids to a known predator for the high life rewards they got out of the deal. It's like so many stage parents encouraging their children, especially girls, to use their bodies in order to get ahead. Hollywood was built on scumbag stage mothers and fathers like that.

What did Michael Jackson get high on ?

A LITTLE CRACK

MJ had an alarm in the hallway outside his bedroom to alert him when someone was approaching.

The Neverland staff all said that MJ never had a female as an overnight guest in his bedroom. The only guests were young boys.

The entire Jackson family knows he was a pedo. They just want to keep the gravy train rollin' so will deny publicly.

R48 This. Monsters exist in the world, and it’s a parents job to protect their kids. I think I would have cut my parents off after this shit. They’d be paying me to visit them in the home.

Nice to see he's kept his boyish physique.

Why was a grown supposedly straight man so obsessed with hanging out with little boys that weren't related to him anyway??

Shouldn't he have been eating pussy and fucking models and groupies and shit?

I know James. Zero, and I mean ZERO question that he's telling the 100% truth.

How is the Jackson family the African American dream? Most of them went through extensive surgery to appear white. MJ especially.

To all the posters in this thread who are MJ apologists and/or minimizers of the damage caused by MJ, I suggest you head over to the NAMBLA chat forum. I don’t care to be associated with you.

Didn't MJ pay them both off to settle the cases? Was it ever disclosed how much they got?

Didn't Wade Robson fuck both Birtney and Justin?

Yes, OP, of course I believe them and I don't know anyone who doesn't.

Jackson's been dead for a long time. People need to get over this fantasy that he wasn't a pedophile. Michael Jackson molested children.

I sleep better knowing that the amount of tiered life mentoring I can get from Wade is based on my annual income.

Don't forget to scroll down.

Calling him a pedophile is insensitive. Please use minor-attracted person as a more considerate term.

I prefer "kiddie raper" as my term-of-choice.

MJ was hiding in plain sight. He got away with it because he was so insanely famous, the kind of fame he had doesn't exist anymore. People didn't want to believe that such a beloved megastar could be so criminally sick.

Also, the public was much more naive and clueless about this sort of thing back in those days. People today are much more aware of pedophiles and child abuse than they were decades ago.

R55 How does James feel about MJ’s Broadway musical and upcoming biopic? It must crush him to still see MJ being celebrated.

If Wade was a woman I don’t think people would be as quick to accuse him of being an opportunist. It’s common for victims to protect and even love their abusers, so him continuing to associate with the Jackson’s isn’t surprising to me. He was also only 21/22 when he perjured himself in Jackson’s 2005 trial. His career was hot and if he had come forward with his allegations it would’ve likely derailed his career.

Even with all the alleged discrepancies in Wade’s and James’ stories, I just find it hard to believe they would willingly lie about being abused by Michael Jackson knowing the ridicule and death threats they would receive. They came forward with their allegations before #MeToo too.

And if they want money from the Jackson estate, so what? If you were abused and had to lie about it for so long without receiving justice, are you saying you wouldn’t want money too?

R52- Munsters exist in the world too.

R66 I worded this wrongly, people obviously accuse female victims of being opportunists all the time, but there’s also more sympathy for them if they were the age Wade was when all this stuff went down.

The Telephone Stories is a great podcast about the allegations against Michael.

He owned books that contained photographs of nude boys.

Aaron Carter said MJ didn’t molest him but he did act inappropriately with him on one occasion.

Of course he was a paedo. He dumped these boys just as soon as they aged out of what he was attracted to.

I also really, really struggle to believe that the parents didn't suspect a thing. They would have to be cataclysmically stupid not to even have any misgivings.

These two are completely believable.

Who was the other boy who made similar accusations but then shut up once MJ made a payment?

[quote] The parents handed the kids to a known predator for the high life rewards they got out of the deal.

R73 beat me to it, but the first person who came to mind was Aaron Carter

His mother pimped him out to Lou Perlman, plain and simple.

Which makes it all the more incredible that both Robson and Safechuck came out of this whole ordeal, relatively normal.

Imagine having to live with the fact that you've sampled MJ's duck butter.

[quote] Who was the other boy who made similar accusations but then shut up once MJ made a payment?

Gayle King mentioned in the video at op that it was Jordy Chandler.

Not sure what happened with the other kid, Gavin Arvizo.

There are a lot of interesting articles on mjfacts.com that predate the revelations in Leaving Neverland. Honestly, none of it is that surprising, given how open MJ was about his activities with underaged, overnight guests, in interviews. Where there is smoke there is fire. If it had been one accusation, perhaps it could be dismissed as an attempted grift. But this was a lot of cases, with a consistent M.O. used by MJ. He was very sick. I enjoy some of his music and can appreciate his accomplishments as a performer, but MJ was most definitely a disturbed person. I am sure there are many cases we have never even heard about that got hushed up over the years. Not entirely sure I believe nothing happened with the Culkins, either, despite their denials.

Many of Harvey Weinstein’s victims continued to associate with him after he abused them.

Just because someone was abused doesn't mean they understand the future emotional ramifications. They often don't think it was bad as it was happening.

Very true R80. And I think a lot of times people forget how much nepotism is in play in the entertainment industry. Knowing someone "big" can be the difference between making it or not. So it stands to reason a lot of victims would maintain contact with MJ even after the abuse ended.

Maybe he was a little more hands off with the showbiz kids than he was with the nobodies.

Yes I believe them. They seem convincing and I find it hard to believe they'd tell such detailed lies over such a long period of time.

We'll never know for sure, but on balance, I think they're genuine.

[quote] I wonder if body language experts have analysed them?

There’s no such thing as a body language expert. It’s the same as declaring yourself psychic.

Wade, I don’t believe. He’s a little con artist. James, yes. He is totally believable and a lot of what he said was backed up, specially the buying of the jewelry. TMZ had the footage.

[quote] Many of Harvey Weinstein’s victims continued to associate with him after he abused them.

“Victims”. They took the money and then played the MeToo card when they weren’t getting any more parts.

[quote] If Wade was a woman I don’t think people would be as quick to accuse him of being an opportunist.

You can’t be serious.

Pedophiles indoctrinate little kids into worshipping them. They often go for kids with broken homes and neglectful parents. Young children are impressionable and easily manipulated. It's about power with pedos and rapists. They are narcissistic and in arrested development. MJ was deeply damaged but unfortunately didn't get the psychiatric help he needed. I strongly support pedophiles getting psychiatric care to avoid offending and I applaud the ones who remove themselves from places where children are present. Michael had a narcissistic bully of a father who molested his sisters and cheated on his mother. Joe probably exposed young Michael and his brothers to sex with groupies and maybe even pimped him out because he was that much of a greedy pig. Michael was victim himself but doesn't excuse his own actions.

I enjoy Michael's music and can separate him from those acts mainly because he's been dead for so long. But he was hiding in plain sight when alive. And La Toya, Janet and Jermaine knew what was up. The Jacksons need to be honest and admit it was wrong what he did.

Jackson was one of America’s greatest entertainers, but he was definitely guilty and his insane fans can’t get it through their minds that being a great artist =/= being a good person. I would watch a biopic on him if it wasn’t a hagiography funded by his estate. If anyone mades a MJ biopic, it should be independent and a dark comedy that shows how absurd and fucked up his life was. Nobody wants to see a biopic that is sterilized unless they’re braindead sheep (though millions saw that piece of shit Bohemian Rhapsody). There’s supposed to be a John Lennon biopic coming out later that will completely sterilize his life and flaws too, I hope that also flops.

Why is Wade an opportunist?

R90 A dark comedy about paedophilia? Ummm, brave.

R88 If Wade was a woman people would be understanding of why he testified in MJ’s favor in 2005 when he was 21/22.

Do you guys think Gavin Arvizo and his family were opportunists too? And Jordy Chandler and his family?

R92, I don’t mean exactly dark comedy, but a drama that points out the absurdity and gothic nature of his life. I think Yorgios Lanthimos would do a great biopic on MJ’s life if you’ve seen his work like Dogtooth and The Favorite.

R87 Doesn’t change the fact Harvey assaulted them, often paying them into silence.

R95. Good call, a Lanthimos biopic of Jackson would be amazing.

That said, I really struggle to see how a biopic deals with the paedophilia. Never proved in a court of law but most sane people know it happened and it was prolific. It can't be minimised but its going to be very hard to avoid seeming to exploit it or sensationalise it. And how do you balance that with creating a portrayal of Jackson that people will relate to and want to watch?

Jermaine's son isn't bright (he's a Jackson so comes with the territory). He doesn't realize what he signed up for. This won't help his career by portraying his problematic self-hating pedophile uncle. No matter what a big star he was. Elvis and Whitney were hot messes but Michael made them look normal.

Guys, this "biopic" is in conjunction with Jackson's estate, meaning his kids and whoever is controlling the money. There will be no pedophilia acknowledged in this film. If it's brought up at all it will be to try to paint his pedophilia as false accusations.

I think the biopic will probably only follow his childhood in Gary, his Motown stardom, Thriller and stop around the Bad era (late 80s). That's more than enough to keep that myth alive.

R7, Michael was a professional predator

R72, glad you pointed that out. He had other books with "artistic" nudes of young boys. Guys who aren't into young boys don't buy those kinds of books

The biopic is going to address the allegations according to Deadline.

I hate the way a lot of black people seem to dismiss the allegations against him as some racist thing and stand up for him on the basis of him being black (only, ironically, he did everything he could to not be black).

People defend his behavior so much. A regular joe would not get this type of mental gymnastics. I'm black and I don't care he could sing or dance, dude had problems. Same deal with R. Kelly. Entertainers especially male get a pass for all kinds of bullshit. I'm happy our society doesn't worship celebrities like that anymore. People lament the loss of glamour and untouchability of old Hollywood but it's better that we can see these famous stars in a clearer light. Pedophilia was way more rampant in the older days then now.

R105 It's funny though. Most MJ stans I know today are white women who defend him. European women especially. Black people especially younger ones aren't into him like that anymore. Young black women especially seem to admit he had serious issues. I've seen videos of black YouTubers that admit MJ had problems and older black people unfortunately overlook abuse against black children in our community.

White people defend MJ just as much as black people. A white lady released a dove in the sky for every not guilty verdict Jackson received in his 2005 trial.

R107 Black Twitter worships MJ tho.

R109 Black Twitter are weirdos,incels and trolls and many seem like blackface. Black YouTubers and TikTokers offer a better reflection.

What did Michael Jackson and a second place- Nascar driver have in common?

They BOTH came in a little behind.

This site, AwardsWatch, r/Fauxmoi (used to be r/Deuxmoi), and ONTD are the only places on the internet I’ve seen that unequivocally believe MJ was guilty. Everywhere else you’ll see people defending him.

On Prince.org, many posters believed MJ was guilty too and going back to the 2005 trial. Though I think that may be more influenced by their dislike of Jackson and adoration of Prince. But I think Prince himself knew the deal and didn't want anything to do with the Jacksons.

[quote] [R88] If Wade was a woman people would be understanding of why he testified in MJ’s favor in 2005 when he was 21/22.

I'm not R88, but I respectfully disagree. Whether man or woman, anyone who lied under oath would be taken to task. Especially because the court case involved another victim. You lied and sabotaged another victim.

R114, Michael lied. So will you attack him?

Matt Sandusky (Jerry Sandusky's adopted son) told a grand jury his father never molested him....but I didn't see anyone here going after him for being a liar

Of course I believe them.

R115, my background is law, so I'm thinking from a cross-examining / impeachment standpoint. Anyone who lies on the witness stand would be raked over the coals for that.

Yes, I do believe children get pressured into lying and then later tell the truth.

Of course people are in denial. They like his music and it would be very uncomfortable to listen to it if they accepted he was a pedophile.

What did Michael Jackson and pimples have in common?

They both came all over your face at age twelve.

It's interesting that some people say they believe James but not Wade. James has the bearing of a "perfect" victim - he's sincere, completely broken. Wade on the other hand comes across as a bit of a grifter, with his acquired blaccent and showbiz aspirations. So these people accept that Michael Jackson actually was a prolific rapist and pedophile, but never laid a finger on his young friend Wade? It's weird to me. And shows just how much perception of the victim affects whether they are believed or not.

I stopped listening to Michael Jackson's music when I realized he was raping children.

When he died it was okay to play it again after a while. I wouldn't play it at a party or anything but I like to listen to some of the old tunes now.

We have discussed this ad-nauseam here over the years and I'm sure we will continue talking about it over and over. Yes, Wade Robson may be telling truth now, but he LIED UNDER OATH about serious allegations. He cannot expect anyone to take anything else he says seriously for the rest of his life.

And I also said on one of the other numerous threads related to this upcoming movie, that I honestly don't give a shit about Michael Jackson's personal life in relation to his music, one because Michael Jackson is long dead, two because I am a fan of 70s 80s music. His catalog was not his creation alone, many brilliant minds were behind making him into what he was during his peak.

[quote]Yes, Wade Robson may be telling truth now, but he LIED UNDER OATH about serious allegations. He cannot expect anyone to take anything else he says seriously for the rest of his life.

He was very young at the time and still processing what happened to him. He wasn't ready to honestly deal with things, this is very common among many abuse victims. You need to get the fuck over that and get some perspective. He was molested, his story corroborated all the others and he went into excruciating detail.

People don't think about this much, but Wade and James have a lot of haters.

Hard core MJ fans who attack these two, every chance they get.

I was reading through the comments on James Safechuck's Instagram page, and there's one person who posts crap such as this:

[quote] jay2od How much money have you received so far? Useless people.

[quote] jay2od Be careful

There are a lot of psychos out there, who may actually try to hurt James and Wade.

[quote] Nice to see he's kept his boyish physique.

James is definitely fit!

Why was Michael Jackson kicked out of the Cub Scouts?

He was up to a pack a day!

This Thread is pointless with out the vid.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

Gavin Arvizo.

R129- His looks apparently peaked when he was 14 years old.

Jordy Chandler.

Jacko and young James.

R122, once again, Jerry's Sandusky son told a grand jury that he wasn't molested, but everyone here believed him when he changed his tune and said otherwise. Not one person was calling him a liar and saying he shouldn't be believed

Why is it you feel the need to shit on Wade, but not Matt Sandusky? Is it because Michael has some songs you like?

Many abused kids feel compelled to defend their abuser,when the abuser is someone very close to them

I'm sure it's just a coincidence that he only "befriended" cute boys, not chubby boys with zits

R134 Are girls, or children with special needs, or black or Asian kids? Why just goodlooking white or mixed boys?

He definitely had a type. He even made sure his kids were white.

r133 it's akin to Corey Feldman accusing everyone in the entertainment industry of being a part of satanic child predator cults except one man he still dresses like. The other 'celebrity' lads fared no better.

another damaging bit for all other accusers.

Woody Allen doesn’t have any other accusers as far as I know but most people still believe he’s guilty of molesting Dylan Farrow.

Woody also has defenders who believe he’s innocent, but not on the level of Michael.

I don't know a single black person who believes Michael's kids are actually part black. The MJ loons online who argue those are his biological kids are usually nonblack and they post pictures of MJ and La Toya after the plastic surgery and bleaching to argue there's a resemble. Michael was deep brown skinned with a wide nose and jaw and type 3c/4a hair. None of his kids have anything remotely African about them. And yes I know biracial kids can look more white and pass but none of MJ's kids resemble the Jackson family in the slightest. They don't even have the inflections. They talk like white kids from the Valley. Paris looks exactly like Debbie Rowe and Prince looks like Arnold Klein. Blanket looks Hispanic.

Jordy's late father Evan, sounds like he was kind of crazy, too:

[quote] On July 8, 1993, Schwartz phoned Evan to discuss Jordan’s relationship with Jackson. Unbeknownst to Evan, Schwartz recorded the phone call. Chandler was hostile about Jackson, describing him as "evil". He said he had hired "the nastiest son of a bitch he could find", the lawyer Barry Rothman, to humiliate Jackson, and said:

[quote] Once I make that phone call, this guy is going to destroy everybody in sight in any devious, nasty, cruel way that he can do it. I've given him full authority to do that ... If I go through with this, I win big-time. There's no way I lose. I will get everything I want and they will be destroyed forever ... Michael's career will be over ... This man is going to be humiliated beyond belief. He will not believe what is going to happen to him, beyond his worst nightmares. He will not sell one more record.

[quote] When Schwartz asked how this would affect Jordan, Chandler replied: That’s irrelevant to me. The bottom line is, yes, his mother is harming him, and Michael is harming him. I can prove that, and I will prove that. It cost me tens of thousands of dollars to get the information I got, and you know I don’t have that kind of money. I’m willing to go down financially.

[quote] In August, Chandler extracted one of Jordan's teeth. While Jordan was under the effects of the sedative, Evan asked him if Jackson had ever touched his penis; Jordan said yes.

[quote] Chandler and his legal team approached Jackson asking for $20 million, threatening to take the dispute to a criminal court. Jackson refused, saying, "No way in hell." A few weeks later, Jackson's legal team made a counter-offer of $1 million; this was declined by Chandler, who then requested $15 million. Jackson refused and lowered his offer to $350,000, which Chandler also refused. According to some sources, Evan unsuccessfully sought a $20-million film production deal with Jackson to avoid going to court. In October 1994, Mary A. Fischer of GQ reported it was Chandler who initially accused Jackson of molesting his son, before he demanded a screenwriting deal from Jackson instead of going to the police.

[quote] On July 15, the child psychiatrist Mathis Abrams wrote to Rothman, who was seeking an expert opinion to help establish the allegations against Jackson. Abrams wrote that there was "reasonable suspicion" of sexual abuse without having met Evan or Jordan. He also said that, if this were not a hypothetical case, he would be required by law to report the matter to the Los Angeles County Department of Children’s Services.

[quote] On August 17, Evan took Jordan to Abrams and told him Jordan had been molested. Over a three-hour session, Jordan told Abrams that Jackson had sexually abused him for months and gave graphic accounts of masturbation and oral sex. Jordan repeated these allegations to police and described Jackson's penis. According to the county's DCFS reports, Jordan had difficulty remembering the times and dates of his alleged molestation, but was consistent in his story.

Nothing to shee here!

Yep, child molesters often go for kids with sketchy parents.

I believed LaToya years ago when she said he was.

Gavin Arvizo at R129 looks too old, actually. I think MJ's taste was younger.

James Safechuck doesn't seem long for this world.

[quote] They [Michael Jackson's children] don't even have the inflections. They talk like white kids from the Valley.

I wouldn't try to figure out race by how MJ's children talk.

Who looks more fucked up in this photo?

r155 why not? they wouldn't just pop out of the womb speaking like Bebe's kids?

[quote] Sandra 1 month ago (edited) Michael's short films are better than movies. He really revolutionised art and he won't be forgiven for that by mediocre minds. They always love to comment so you can identify them in the thread.

R154 What about him gives you that vibe?

I'm asking because I feel that same way about him.

Is Jordan Chandler still missing?

[quote] Michael Jackson’s first molestation accuser, Jordan Chandler, sought in $131 million sex-abuse lawsuit

LAWYERS working on a $US100 million ($131 million) sex-abuse lawsuit against Michael Jackson’s former companies are on a global manhunt for the late singer’s first molestation accuser, in hopes of convincing him to testify.

New York Daily News reports investigators are searching the UK and other European countries trying to find Jordan Chandler, who received a $US20 million ($26 million) settlement after his father alleged that Chandler, then 13, had been molested by Jackson.

Lawyers for Wade Robson and Jimmy Safechuck, who were companions of Jackson as children, now claim that they were sexually abused by the pop star.

According to a source close to the case they believe that Chandler has left the US to avoid them.

“Wade and Jimmy want to look Jordie in the eye and talk to him about what they suffered,” said the source. “They feel that they may appeal to him to finally tell his story.”

Lead lawyer Vince Finaldi confirmed that investigators are searching for Chandler.

“He’s a key piece of the puzzle surrounding this case, and we’re not going to stop until we find him,” said Finaldi, whose team has tracked down dozens of former members of Jackson’s staff and entourage.

Robson alleges he was abused dozens of times by the pop star during trips.

The choreographer, 34, filed an amended complaint in September claiming that the Thriller singer and key staffers at his companies ran a “sophisticated child sexual abuse procurement and facilitation operation.”

He claims that staffers worked to arrange private meetings with young fans, covered their travel expenses and showered them with pricey gifts.

[quote] It's funny though. Most MJ stans I know today are white women who defend him. European women especially. Black people especially younger ones aren't into him like that anymore. Young black women especially seem to admit he had serious issues. I've seen videos of black YouTubers that admit MJ had problems and older black people unfortunately overlook abuse against black children in our community.

Yeah, most of the MJ defenders I know are white women. One of them is a British woman who I worked with years ago. I worked in administration at general practice clinic and she was a certified nurse midwife on staff. She was very well liked by patients and staff members. I worked with her from 2005-2007. Sometime after she left, she friended me on Facebook. When MJ died, she was posting various pictures and tribute articles about MJ and got very defensive when the pedo accusations were brought up.

*pitches up MJ voice again* “they’re accusing me of touching little boys! It’s simply not true, Diane. They don’t know the real Michael. He loves children but. Would. Never. Hurt. Them.”

R159 I don’t know exactly, and I hope I’m wrong ofc, but JS comes off as extremely fragile, like the abuse is always on his mind, and that it has completely shaped his adult personality and relationships. I guess we haven’t had enough of a good look at the other victims to judge. But he seemed to be the most “in love” with Jackson, and due to that sick fuck’s mind games, to still bear a heavy burden of responsibility and guilt. He almost seems to be still in love with Jackson in a way. Idk, he just seems very haunted. I can’t imagine what it’s like to be so upfront about everything and still be dismissed by disbelievers.

[quote] Doesn’t change the fact Harvey assaulted them, often paying them into silence.

And they took it. They’re trash and put even more women at risk.

[quote] Black people especially younger ones aren't into him like that anymore.

Not true. The black community has rallied around him.

[quote] Woody also has defenders who believe he’s innocent

Oh, please, that story is very suspicious. I’m sure Dylan believes that it happened thanks to her loon mother. Facts aren’t on Dylan’s side.

[quote] Why is Wade an opportunist?

He has a history of trying to get money out of people and has an odious personality. He had an entire history pre-MJ. James Safechuck is completely believable.

[quote] If Wade was a woman people would be understanding of why he testified in MJ’s favor in 2005 when he was 21/22.

Wade has a history though. It’s not that simple. I don’t think it has anything to do with sex. It has to do with Michael Jackson’s celebrity.

Wade has to be a sociopath then to falsely accuse someone of abusing them and making up details like that.

They have faces that would be on WANTED posters in the olden days.

There is no Wade “pre-MJ”, R166. He was an MJ impersonator as a small child, completely obsessed with him. He still loves Michael, obviously. His whole life has been fucked up by it, he’s a very fucked up person.

R21 to clarify - these weren't just wrong - they named places where the buildings didn't exist at that time, cities MJ had never been to, people that they know of but couldn't have possibly known at the time, etc. - like really wrong....it seemed they researched and in an attempt to make the stories more textured, were adding details that couldn't have been true.

Sure Jan

Of course they are telling the truth. Of course MJ was a child predator. You have to be willfully blind to not see that MJ was going after kids.

Is Jordie Chandler really missing?

Why wouldn't he want to join James and Wade's lawsuit?

[quote] Wade has to be a sociopath then to falsely accuse someone of abusing them and making up details like that.

He is. His story was as believable as Sybil’s.

R175, he took the money. He’s not missing.

I believe Wade and James. I feel sorry that so many people are unsupportive of them.

Men get zero benefit from admitting to being sexually abused. They are humiliated and emasculated for that confession which is why many keep it to the grave. Nobody cares if they were little boys who couldn't defend themselves, the perception is you got XY chromosomes, you can fight back somehow.

Wow, I'm surprised James has such a fit body. He's very goodlooking but comes across very damaged. Way more so than Wade.

‘Leaving Neverland’ Director Condemns New Michael Jackson Biopic

Us Magazine says that Robson dated Britney Spears for about a year, possibly overlapping with Justin Timberlake.

Yes I beleive them. Anyone who doesn't is a broken, disgusting person who is defending and making excuses for a notorious paedophile who everybody in showbusiness knew about.

Amy Kaufman calls them liars.

Reading comprehension really isn't your thing, is it R184?

Yeah, I believe them, Jackson was hiding in plain sight. Some time around 1990 I realized that he wasn't bringing little boys to red carpets because he was too weird to get a date with a woman, they WERE his dates.

There must've been gossip in the music business and celebrity circles. People must've known what was going on.

There’s something going on…

Michael Jackson was a gigantic talent who changed the world with his artistry....and he was a pedophile.

I'm reminded of the T.S. Eliot quote, "Humankind cannot bear too much reality."

Of course they knew R187.

Madonna and Jackson were paired up by their respective record companies and forced to do PR in 1991 to attend the Oscars together. We've all seen the pics.

Shortly afterwards, Madonna was either informed or found out the facts of Jackson's ongoing paedophilia herself. She was furious that she had been involved with him and refused to ever have anything to do with him again. And she never did. Because she knew.

Plenty of people knew about all of it including the entire Jackson family (all of them), his staff, record industry people and show business people like Elizabeth Taylor etc. - but Jackson was making huge amounts of money at the time and money trumps all else in the US as we know. Those people who knew what he was doing worked hard to deflect, defend and pretend so that their cash cow wouldn't stop making money for them.

The first time Robson was raped was at age 7. And look at all these repulsive people in this thread pretending it didn't happen - on top of all the other little boys who were raped in plain sight. There were too many of them and it was clearly obvious. The trail of destruction Jackson left is wide and far. How many of them are dead or had their lives destroyed?

The posters defending Jackson in this thread are every bit as bad as the Catholics who STILL pretend to this day that there was never any paedophilia/child sexual abuse in the Catholic church in the US when we all know the facts are indisputable.

Gross.

I work with people accused of historical sex allegations, the vast majority are dismissed due to lack of evidence. Whether a person was found not guilty or whether charges were dismissed has almost nothing to do with whether they really did it or not. Unfortuntately, our society has not yet found a way to reconcile the the rights of the accused with the rights of children not to get raped.

I vaguely recall some rumor about Prince knowing MJ was a pedo.

R191, what are “historical sex allegations”?

It was this website that convinced me. You see the pattern, once a boy got too old he moved on to the next one. If Jackson was just a regular guy 'hanging out' with boys he wasn't related to, he would have been beaten to death in prison a long time ago.

Putting aside the molestation, the whole befriending-and-then-dumping aspect really must fuck with their heads. One minute he wants to be their best friend, but then when they age out, they're ghosted.

Sorry pedantic R191, “allegations of historical sex crimes”. But you knew what I meant.

Michael Jackson died of a broken heart when he found out that Boys To Men was a rock band and NOT a delivery service.

Has there ever been any speculation about Blanket's biological parents? I think he looks a bit like a boy Jackson befriended, Anton Schleiter. He was a young man when Blanket was born in 2002.

Which of Michael's kids was the son on Nip/Tuck?

Everybody in the music industry, the Jackson family, the support staff, the hangers on and the celebrity friends knew R192.

And eventually so did they general public. Why it was let go on for so long is because of the money he brought in to all of those people above. Especially the Jackson family and the record company.

R198, that might explain why they kept hanging out long after Anton had aged out of MJ’s sexual preference.

The money is part of it R200 but not all. People are remarkably willing to look the other way when it comes to CSA. I don’t know if it’s too horrible for most brains to process so they go into a kind of denial. People don’t want it to be true, therefore it isn’t. The human brain is very weird.

Good point R202. Raping and sexually assaulting little boys is something all normal people have a great deal of trouble processing.

However there were plenty of people in the industry who knew and refused to having anything to do with him and plenty of the public who could see the writing on the wall.

But money and fame is why Jimmy Savile was allowed to keep on with it and it's the same for Jackson.

He should have been in jail for the remainder of his life and everybody who enabled it should be there too.

Here's Robson at the age that Jackson started raping him regularly. And Robson was just one of many, many boys...

R202/R203 good points. Certainly I think there were cases where Savile was almost caught in the act, for example by nurses in the hospitals he raised money for. I think back in the 1970s there was quite widespread ignorance about how widespread CSA is, and perhaps these witnesses didn't really have the conceptual tools to deal with it, or couldn't quite bring themselves to accept that they saw what they thought they saw. Michael Jackson had this very ethereal, childlike and unthreatening image and perhaps in the 1980s many people found it difficult to reconcile that with their stereotypical views of what a child molester was like: of course all sorts of different kinds of people commit these crimes.

Relevant Savile info:

Yes, I believe them.

R198 There has been speculation that Blanket's biological parents are Miko Brando and Prudence Solomon. There is particularly a resemblance between Solomon and Blanket as a child. I can see what you mean about the similarity to Anton in some of those photos, though.

How big is James Safechuck’s cock? Does he cry when he cums?

R203- He looks like Sally Jesse Raphael

r190 I thought the dispute was that Madonna was an hebephile and preferred latin street trade

MJ predilection for young white boys (mid 80s is when I recall the first eyebrows raised) was referenced in pop culture (not without backlash) before the trials... the needle pushed more after neverland in the late 80s, and of course, went over the top after the first allegations and trial.

[quote]People today are much more aware of pedophiles and child abuse than they were decades ago.

I'm pretty sure people have been aware of pedophiles and child abuse for many decdaes.

R211, what was the reference in the mid-80s? I remember his relationship with Macaulay Culkin being referenced on The Fresh Prince of Bel-Air, that was in the early 90s.

You people are terrible! Michael Jackson was a wonderful person who took small children under his wing, just like Peter Pan. He was the boy who never grew up. So why should he not hang out with children when he was a child himself!?! And of course, a true credit to his race, whatever race he happened to be at the time.

R210, she's not a "hebephile" - she's into grown men

R210 - the dispute was that Madonna became aware that Jackson was raping young boys and refused to have anything to do with him again [bold]because he was a paedophile[/bold].

This is James Safechuck when Michael Jackson was sexually assaulting and raping him:

I didn't realize that Aaron Carter knew Michael Jackson.

Damn, that boy must have been passed all around Hollywood.

100% believe them both.

The number of people today who believe Michael Jackson was some raging heterosexual stud interested in adult women tells you all you need to know about the power of celebrity, and how cults form.

This thread has led me to re-watch Leaving Neverland and watching MJ vids on YouTube. R219, you're right, so many of his fans are totally deluded. Here's a video where MJ calls women fish (starts at 1:54). That's what all heterosexual studs call attractive women, right?

He was a demonic pedophile.

I haven't watched the doc nor am I especially into learning about MJ and his history, but I watched a segment on one of the news magazine shows, and read an article or two. I never could understand how parents could let their boys near him, or stay over with him. I'm his age, and my mom and dad were smarter than those parents. He was weird and creepy, but regardless, if I were a parent I wouldn't let my kids around any stranger, regardless of who he was or how famous.

The cult of extreme celebrity played into this. (In his mid 80s to early 90s prime Jackson was by far the biggest pop star of his era). Plus his extreme wealth influenced the parents. In at least one case the mother was literally given a credit card and told to go shopping while Jackson shacked up with her son in a locked hotel room. The nicest thing you could say was that the parents were naive and dazzled by fame, the worst you could say is they sold their kids,

Sexual abuse wasn’t taken seriously back then, especially against children. The idea of someone sexually abusing children while also doing great things (like charity work) for them was hard for people to reconcile. And MJ came across as soft spoken, generous, and “harmless” in the media.

[quote]Sexual abuse wasn’t taken seriously back then, especially against children.

It was taken seriously when it was known. I would say people may have been less aware of how pervasive it was, since no one came forward due to the stigma. But as I said I'm MJ's age and I remember how we were all told not to talk to starngers, get in a car with a stranger, accept candy, whatever. I remember one time at school a puppeteer was asking for kids to be volunteers to help out with his shows. I think I was 8 or 9 and my mom said no way. This would have been in 1966 or '67.

I'm more likely to believe the parents were being willfully ignorant due to being dazzled by the fame and wast wealth and being accepted by a big celebrity at his Disneyland-like home.

(sorry for the typos)

Exactly R225 people thought it was weirdos like puppeteers, strangers in van, flashers and homosexuals who presented the danger to children. Not a family members, the family priest or a beloved entertainer. CSA was “taken seriously” when it could be connected to something like the satanic abuse hysteria. But plenty of kids were not taken seriously when disclosing CSA. I like to hope we are more evolved as a society now, but the non-reaction to MJ makes me think we’re probably just as bad now as we were then.

[quote] the dispute was that Madonna became aware that Jackson was raping young boys and refused to have anything to do with him again because he was a paedophile.

Sorry but you pulled this out of your ass. Madonna has given numerous tributes to Jackson and even denounced the Neverland documentary when it was released.

r213 around the time of Captain EO. actually now that I think about it it was with a brown lad (maybe afro + some latin nation), a very young dancer but the parents were protective. it followed with a greater series of beards less saccharine than brooke. I'm not sure if it was discussed here or on the prince site. the next year the pepsi fire. (where many assume he was replaced for varying reasons.) Still, there were odd picture of him with a boy or surrounded by children (girls, too), he started focusing in on that publicly. And little by litlte Wacko Jacko starting coming out., his speaking voice got higher, fainter, breathy. Comparing his interviews is a trip. His voice has always been high (you know, some thought he was a castrato... when the abuse stories went mainstream many more thought that too. Never interested in his beards, not into dudes. Without he language for it, many thought he was asexual, too.)

What r227/r225 said. It was a very different time. Pedophiles were thought of as creepy loners who drove vans and hung around playgrounds. People were much more naive about this kind of thing back then, a pedophile couldn't be a respectable man with a respectable job who lived in a nice neighborhood. Remember we didn't have all the true crime shows etc. that we have now. We've all seen countless shows like Dateline and To Catch A Predator that show us how anyone could be a child abuser. That kind of thing wasn't around decades ago. People are much more aware of predators and the telltale behaviors these days.

Michael Jackson could get away with it because not only was he a hugely famous celebrity but also because people were much more clueless back in those days.

I imagine if Harry Styles started showing up everywhere with a 12 year-old boy in his arms and surrounding himself with young boys 24/7 everybody would be flipping out and demanding an investigation. I don't think any celebrity could get away with the shit MJ did in today's world.

R231 First of all, not everyone was clueless about Michael Jackson. I used to hear he was a pedo frequently. There are a lot of differences in today's world. The speed of communication, for one. We just forget (or some weren't around, yet). A lot of people didn't use computers, or cell phones. Social media wasn't huge. You got your info more selectively - from TV and newspapers. Or tabloids, which people generally didn't believe. You just didn't get as much info about the entertainment business in your life. Everyone would see something like Thriller on MTV (exclusively - not whenever you wanted, but when they decided you could see it). The personal lives of celebs were obscure and it was possible for them to be guarded and secretive. Also those kids' parents were not in touch with their kids by smartphone 24/7.

The other thing here is, Harry Styles is a somewhat different type. Jackson had a public image that was childlike and pure. He didn't seem like a grown man, or sexual, to some people, especially his adoring female fans

Yes, this is what I don't really get, R232, this 'childlike and pure' image.

I don't quite remember Jackson at the height of his fame. Did anyone here buy his records? Who were his fan base? The teen- and 20-something girls who make up the bulk of most pop stars' fanbase? Did he have any male fans? He would have had some child fans but they wouldn't have been the majority, right?

What do young girls look for in a popstar? Someone sexual but nonthreatening, like he could be your first crush or your first boyfriend. What was Jackson's public image? He hung around with little boys all the time, dressed weirdly like a pirate, had sleepovers with kids and watched Disney movies, had a petting zoo at his house, and was filmed going to amusement parks all the time with his entourage of children.

OK, let's say you totally bought his story that he had never had a real childhood, and wanted one now, and it was all totally innocent. Still, what exactly of any of this was attractive to his fans? Why did he remain so popular for so long?

I don’t believe them at all.

[quote]How does he earn a living now?

This.

And, what happened to that Gavin guy? Is he still around?

There are always people who don't believe the obvious, it's sort of weird.

Yes, I totally believe them.

If Safechuck's lying, someone hand that man an Oscar.

Thanks for the Telephone Stories podcast recommendation, R71. It’s fascinating.

R238 exactly. He is one of the most credible people I’ve ever seen.

Why not R234? There is so much evidence and so many victims.

A person who genuinely loves children isn't picky, they love children of both sexes and a wide variety of ages. A person who only loves children of one sex, a narrow age range, and a specific physical type doesn't "love children", they're trying to make their sexual fantasies come true.

Jackson was a pedo, and he wasn't hiding it. He was taking his little victims out in public and showing them off.

Absolutely bang on R242. He also put the young boys "out to pasture" when they became too old for his sexual tastes. Jackson the paedophile was proudly operating in plain sight and he had plenty of powerful people protecting him so he could continue his paedophilia unabated.

No wonder he needed propofol to sleep at night.

Pity he didn't take a lot more of it and a lot sooner than when he overdosed R244. It may have saved some of those children being raped and experiencing the lives they now have to live with.

I always thought it was funny that Jackson died at the exact moment little teenaged Justin Bieber became famous. You just know if Jackson had lived he would've been all over Bieber like flies on shit. Bieber would've been his Macaulay Culkin 2.0.

I believe Bieber would have been too old.

Jacko liked them age 10-13.

[quote] You just know if Jackson had lived he would've been all over Bieber like flies on shit

Usher beat him to it.

He is a shocking Michael Jackson confession video-

I find Wade too...mannered in his responses. I don't like his rhythms when he speaks about the abuse and all that happened. It just sounds weird. But he's been in "the biz" for a long time and anyone in "the biz" does interviews very differently than someone from the normal world just speaking normally. So I guess it's inevitable that he sounds calculated or arrogant or whatever.

I think I believe them both more because James seems like just a normal person who is grappling with a lot of pain. He seems haunted and I hate that we're judging the sincerity of what they're saying when really, this is not what any grown man wants to be famous for.

I especially believe the Latin/Mexican/Whatever housekeeper lady who did interviews about working at the ranch and finding boys undies hidden in MJ's room. Even if she was paid off to some degree, I still believe her. Not saying anything about must eat away at a person over time. He was abusing kids who didn't understand what was happening. How can you turn a blind eye to that if you were there and knew about it?

Ultimately, I wish we could know what it was that took MJ down this road. Was he molested as a child, and then repeated the molestation? Or was he a gay guy who was so self-loathing that he could never be with adult men and therefore redirected towards kids who would keep his secret or something? (sorry if that's deeply offensive, not my intention, not trying to say gay people can be redirected towards kids, but MJ was a special case and who the fuck knows).

And here's the other thing - don't molesters gravitate towards one another? Do you think he bragged to other adult men about the kids he'd been with or something? Maybe when he was living/hiding in the Middle East, where they still accept child boys as prostitutes?

Mostly, I hate the way his bizarro family denies everything. People are messed up about this, guys. We KNOW shit happened. People want to love Michael but they can't understand any of this. Why keep secrets?

That whole family is going to die and we're all going to still be talking about them for another 100 years because of how many unanswered questions we have.

Anyway, I hope these men and the other victims have good therapists to help them through the memories and shame and doubts. It's a long road.

They're just mad they got molested by the King of Pop with nothing to show for it. The smartest one was the first kid who managed to get that huge settlement and then disappeared. All the others were shit outta luck. If I was molested by some insanely wealthy creep who wasn't overweight, then I would've kept my mouth shut for backdoor payments secured with secret recordings, diary entries, or even a contract agreement. If I didn't get my money in full and on time, then I'd contact the feds. Some of us have the constitution to handle sex abuse as long as it's by the right person. No fatties, no old geezers, only thin and wealthy. That said, I blame the trashy parents for sacrificing their kids for material trinkets. Mine had money, God, and an education.

We know MJ was fucked up in the head as a result of the beatings and having to work since he was six. He wanted to be a white kid who had play dates with other boys and experimented sexually in his youth. Alas, he never had that and thus became a pedo creep. What is so hard to understand? He hated having darker skin and a big nose. He hated his father for abusing him. He hated not having a childhood complete with gay awakenings. He needed serious help. Thankfully, he's dead now. The music is still great. Can we move on?

" Some of us have the constitution to handle sex abuse as long as it's by the right person."

???

You are FUCKED in the head. CHILDREN do not think like that. You are an asshole.

R252, If you think that's the worst thing someone has said on here, then you don't know DL. It's not a place for the faint of heart or those seeking brownie points for virtue signaling. Be gone with you!

R252 agree, that is a really fucked up thing to say. When is childhood sex abuse ever right?? Jesus.

Real edgelords don’t need to WW themselves.

I rewatched the documentary. Wade's wife seemed unnecessarily mean in not allowing his mother in her home when she wanted to see her grandson. It seemed the mother tried to do the right thing like refusing to hand over Wade for one year but she was as played by MJ as the boys. The only thing I can really blame her for is the red dye job. Yeech. Maybe bad dye jobs was a family thing cos Wade was a bad looking blond for a while.

Are we sure that Usher didn't do the same with Bieber?

R251 Wow, you're fucked up.

R252 R254 & R258 can fuck off. I swear some of you bitches half read stuff looking for an opportunity to express outrage. DL is not a place to assume the moral high ground. Either tell the truth about life or go back to your coddled, comfortable little lives and get off the platform. Fuck trying to mainstream, assimilate, and smooth any rough edges to make oneself more palatable to oppressive breeders. The fact is, the world is FULL of fucked up shit. Either you learn how to adapt and fortify oneself or you crumble into the chaos.

Addicts are a perfect example of this. They're generally less resilient and failed to develop a strong enough sense of self to withstand the toughest external pressures threatening their identity and way of life. They become stuck in their perceived failures, use substances, and develop bad habits to cope with unresolved cognitive dissonance. They look for an easy, temporary escape from their problems instead of becoming stronger and changing.

As for R251, I get it. Some people are strong enough to handle trauma and turn those adverse experiences to their advantage. Embrace your struggles. It's part of mental fortitude and anti-fragility. Not everyone comes undone when faced with evil in the world. If you're going to be assaulted at least find a way to get something out of it. Oprah moved on and became a multi-billionaire. That first kid got $25M and moved on. These two mediocre losers continue to bellyache in the media because they got diddled and still have to work for a living. If you had your choice of an assaulter, you mean to tell me you'd choose Weinstein over MJ? They're both revolting, but at least MJ was thin with a regular penis and WAY more money. Know when to pick your battles if you want to win the war.

[quote]As for [R251], I get it.

Since you are R251, that goes without saying.

r259 is really fucked up.

R260 Nice try and fuck off. R261 is a basic, brain dead bitch.

It wasn't a try; it's a fact. You are R251.

Lol, this is why I come to DL! Savage, shocking comments and petty responses!

It’s cute that Wade & James made friends and connected so closely, found someone to relate to and be totally open with. So at least one good thing came out this horror.

Wonder if they’ve ever shared physical comfort? I know they’re straight, and I’m not shipping it, but sometimes when you meet someone who shares a rare experience & POV with you a closeness can form and barriers can come down—and one who goes through what they did would have many barriers up to intimacy with others who haven’t gone through anything so harrowing. James in particular sounds like someone who longs to be understood and wanted deeply and totally (perhaps why he was the ‘perfect victim’, in a way).

R265 He was a child.

R259 I wasn't expressing outrage, just amazement.. You're the one expressing outrage. And I don't have a coddled, comfortable little life. Don't tell me who I am.

I remember reading that Michael Jackson had an uncle that sexually abused him as a child with another individual who was close the Jackson family circle. They actually were caught en flagrante.

Often people who were sexually abused as minors turn out to be paedophile sexual abusers as adults. It turns into a repeating cycle.

R259 Jesus, MARY! and Joseph.

R268 Good point. I'm in no way excusing MJ's crimes, but you all have to admit he didn't really stand a chance growing up as (probably a gay kid) in that devout Jehovah witness household with an extremely crazy and abusive father like Joe Jackson.

One can only imagine the abuse MJ suffered himself growing up in that family. Then you add all that money and fame into that fucked up dysfunctional family dynamic, and it's no wonder MJ turned into such a wacko. That cocktail of physical and psychological abuse was going to render some insane social pathology no matter what.

The stench of MJ fans abounds in this thread

Where? I haven't seen anyone jump to his defense?

Hi, r252 here.

Sure, fine, you can - AS AN ADULT - look at life's troubles as a means of making you tougher. And sure you can sit there and say they got lucky being abused by a rich guy who wasn't as gross looking as Harvey...

But that's still INCREDIBLY FUCKED UP.

Please register that.

If you think it's fine to get abused sexually as a kid by someone you find "attractive" in some way, guess what? It's not! It can still mess you up in very profound ways because ADULTS should not be targeting CHILDREN for sex. They can't process it or understand it for one thing because they're freaking children, and for another, the adult is USING THEM. Taking advantage of them because they are young, and projecting onto them whatever they want to get their kicks, as the ignorant kid is there getting all the wrong messages and thinking they have a friend, or that this is normal, or that they're an equal participant when that's 100% not the case.

Wade and James have given many interviews now where they speak about how they felt THEY had to protect Michael. Even though they were kids! And he basically told them "because WE are doing this TOGETHER, WE could BOTH go to jail" which was a total fucking lie, and he knew it.

Michael wanted the sex, they didn't. Michael was looking out for his own sexual interests and personal well-being and didn't give two shits about whether or not these guys were fucked up by the way he essentially bought them from their parents for a while (rented may be a better word) and then would eventually discard them.

These guys now struggle to have relationships with their parents because of Michael. They now struggle to have romantic relationships as grown men because of Michael. They struggle with being fathers because of Michael.

So NO - Michael having money or being semi-human-looking (and that's VERY generous!) does not magically make the abuse okay.

If you seriously think it's okay, I have to ask - do you rape people and then throw money at them and tell them it'll make them stronger? Cause that's the kind of shit you're saying on here, and it really makes us all sick.

Please stop. Please get help. You are not okay.

Alright Wade may be an opportunist, but James looks tortured. Something clearly happened to him.

It’s one thing to be molested, but to be allegedly molested by the King of Pop has got to be traumatizing. Especially since he’s still so revered in the culture.

I do feel sorry for all that Michael went through. Wish he had gotten help.

You feel sorry for Jackson R276??? What about all the starstruck little boys he raped and molested...

R277 I feel sorry for them too.

How big of you R278.

R273 aka R252 is an exhausting person who deserves to be raped.

[quote] Sexual abuse wasn’t taken seriously back then, especially against children.

Put down the pipe. Everyone took it seriously. Society was also warned about men fucking little boys as far back as the 1950s with warning films.

Can you just get away with saying anything on here? Even posts like R280 don't get deleted?

Dragnet, 1950s

Wade seems like a terrible dance teacher in the footage of his classes. The kind that is like Keep up if you can!

Media hysteria is not the same as taking it seriously in actual real life (when there may be no physical evidence, it’s easier to stick fingers in ears, kids may have troublesome parents, the perpetrator may be a bigwig in society)

Sexual abuse of children is still not taken seriously…people don’t want to give up their MJ music. It’s about priorities

R282 YES! It's Datalounge not a church.

r282 Apparently not! Apparently, it's okay to say that I deserve to be raped.

Wow.

Save your shock and indignation for sanctimonious hypocrites, R288. Good riddance to you, if you have no stomach for the truth.

R288 But God forbid someone should post an article from a certain English newspaper.

Don't engage with the nasty shitty little diaper troll R288. He's getting the reaction from you he which he so desperately wants.

I don't understand the posters who say they believe James but not Wade. Surely if Jackson molested one, he also molested the other? Why would he go to all the trouble of enticing tWade all the way over from Australia, separating him from his family and getting him into a vulnerable position in Neverland, if not to do exactly the same thing to him that he did to James? The logic is simple.

Jackson has every single hallmark of a pedophile. Doesn't miss a one. And the poster who noted that the only children Michael seemed to actually love were pretty, prepubescent white or light Latino boys nailed it. Boys he discarded like garbage as soon as they hit puberty.

Jackson was almost certainly molested as a young child, and we know he was physically and emotionally abused by his father. The stories that Joe pimped him out to record company executives when Michael was a child may or may not be apocryphal, but they are plausible. Joe may even have rationalized that his obviously gay son would "enjoy" it.

Let me be clear: Michael's abusive past didn't make him gay. He'd have been gay regardless of his childhood. What the abuse did was make him a cunning, manipulative pedophile. Jackson may have been trying in some way to "love" an idealized young boy, the one he would have desperately liked to be (beautiful, pale-skinned, Caucasian-featured), but his love was dark, twisted, and destructive.

TL; DR: He was a sick, abusive fuck.

There's this idea, promoted by the media, that "true" victims are always saints themselves. Wade Robson may be a slick grifter. Doesn't mean he wasn't molested. In fact, abusers often target troubled kids, the ones least likely to be believed.

I've always theorized that Jackson was emotionally stuck at age 10 and considered himself a child, therefore he didn't think it wrong to "play" with other children. But he had the libido of an adult man, so his "play" turned into vile abuse of his playmates. I'm not excusing him in any way, just analyzing how his twisted mind worked.

Why would a kid as talented as the young Michael Jackson have to be pimped out to record execs to get ahead?

Maybe he wasn't pimped out--that can't ever be known. But what is known is that Joe would have stopped at nothing to get a record deal for his sons. And don't assume Michael's talent alone would have necessarily paved the way automatically. The Jacksons were poor and black, and that meant they had to work ten times as hard and their management (dad) be ten times as relentless to make them stand out in the music business.

R296 it’s not only the untalented who have to suck dick to get ahead.

Tell me about it.

Stop making excuses for Jackson's paedophilia you sick bunch of cunts.

[quote] it’s not only the untalented who have to suck dick to get ahead.

And that list is long.

Brad Pitt, Austin Butler, Bradley Cooper, Ryan Seacrest, Channing Tatum... etc.

Analyzing something and excusing it are two different things.

Um...I don't know if Brad really did anything gay to get ahead. Sorry. There was an older gay writer he lived with back in his early days who - knowing how rumors can go - wrote up a whole piece online about his time with Brad and how Brad had a girlfriend who visited him while he lived there. He was straight.

I'm reminded of how Kathy Griffin once joked that gays always fixate on the handsome men and swear they're gay, but never the fat or old ones.

It’s weird that people think Wade is lying and James is telling the truth because of their differences in affect. Wade adopted an American accent and that very Hollywood style of speaking as a little kid, probably trying to fit in and impress people, you can see from his early interview clips as a child. He’s been in the Hollywood game almost his entire life. Whereas James left Hollywood after his brief childhood commercial/modeling career and is, I think some sort of computer expert and probably quite introverted as they tend to be.

[quote]The Jacksons were poor and black, and that meant they had to work ten times as hard

To get signed by Motown? Being black was to their advantage.