Flyers Defenseman Ivan Provorov "Why I Won't Wear Pride Jersey"

I don't know why the NHL allows these asshole Russians, especially Ovechkin, to play in their league.

I have a problem with forcing people to wear any sort of insignia/symbol.

Is Provorov homophobic? Yes.

He still should not be forced to wear anything, however, that conflicts with what he believes.

I am more interested in gay professional athletes coming out while they're playing. That's real progress.

It's great that teams create environments to make it safe for that.

Do you think he consulted Dee Dee Halls before he made this statement?

Sure. don't wear a pride jersey but don't use your religion as an excuse. When you do, it becomes clear that you hate gays.

It’s fine. He’ll come out in his own good time.

God I hate when the sports leagues do shit like this (making players wear rainbow stuff). There's always some asshole that doesn't want to do it, and you're just making martyrs out of them. And it's all completely performative bullshit anyway. It doesn't accomplish anything, but gives the team yet ANOTHER style of jersey to sell. And it's also funny that the same people demanding this worthless asswipe be benched screamed bloody murder when NFL owners talked about benching players who kneeled for the anthem. Sorry folks, same thing.

As r2 said, far better to encourage gay players to come out. We're still waiting on that superstar to work up the courage to take the leap and REALLY change things. Nassib was huge news, but he's not good enough to create real change, he'll probably have to take another pay cut to even stay in the league next year.

US courts at all levels have repeatedly upheld the rights of Americans to live free from compelled speech, and that's a good thing. Who cares if some asshole doesn't want to wear a Pride jersey? You will never have to parrot someone else's nutty religion or right-wing ideology. Most people on this earth can't say the same, sadly.

Atta boy!

You can't force someone to support LGBT. It's different if they are insulting or harassing someone. But nobody is obligated to wear clothing to express support. This is why I'm not a fan of big corporations doing this Pride stuff, they treat like some brand and force it on their employees. It's really shallow and condescending. LGBTQIA2+? And it's leading to a lot of backlash and giving conservatives more ammo to aim at us regular gays and lesbians.

Yes, and I find it refreshing that people aren’t continuing with this bullshit. Enough pandering already. What’s next, BLM shirts? Free Palestine?

R10 must be a self-hating Republican.

What is wrong with teams wanting to support the LGBT community?

The players who refuse to wear them are hypocrites, because I bet they all sleep with tons of groupies. They seem to forget about their religion when it comes to heterosexual sex

I'm not a fan of statement clothing, flags, yard signs, etc. I wouldn't wear a Pride jersey so why should he have to?

Also not a fan of religious people, but that's another story.

A lot of people forget that immigrants that come to The US are often from more conservative and religious cultures. Unless they are heavily Americanized and educated, they'll tend to hold views that conflict with the average middle class liberal.

I don’t think anyone should be made to wear it. But this “being true to myself” is the argument of a legitimate moron. Ted Bundy, Hitler, and prfophile priests were all true to themselves as well.

Hockey has always been the NASCAR of the North.

I always see this as an employer’s rights issue. Is it too much to expect employees to wear the uniform the employer chooses? You’re paying them and courts have already ruled that free speech protections do not extend to the private work place.

Sports organizations have the ability to fire employees because they offend the morals and demean the reputation of the parent company. How is this any different?

Orthodox Russians are well known for their hatred of LGBT people - a very proud of it.

I wouldn’t wear it earlier and I’m only a little gay.

Either*

Meh. Provorov knew his employers would choose his uniform when he started his employment with them and that he would have no input into their decision. He signed up for that and if he refuses to wear the uniform he can't take the ice. If he refuses to fulfill his employment contract then he should be fined until he does and/or fired from the team.

He's a hockey player, not a fucking princess. Wear the uniform, do your job and deal with your bigoted religion on your own time.

He’s a homophobe for sure and is using his religion as a shield that being said I don’t think employers should force employees to participate in causes just so that the employer can get woke points or extra money by selling cause specific merchandise which is what is happening here.

These stories fuel conservatives and their base which does not help.

[quote] I don’t think employers should force employees to participate in causes just so that the employer can get woke points or extra money by selling cause specific merchandise which is what is happening here.

R20, again, please explain to me how this squares with an organization’s clear and legal right to enforce morals clauses. When he signed his highly-compensatory contract he agreed not to offend the “morals” of the team owners. What is the logic that allows the player to be held accountable for doing bad, but not for refusing to do good, as the team owners see it?

They force players in wearing pride jerseys, but at the same time they force other players to not coming out since it could ruin their sponsorships, lol. Just for that, I totally stan Provorov.

If these companies really gave a shit about minorities like they claim, they would have said something when oppression was really bad and it mattered. Not wait until a marginalized group gains more visibility and social mobility to start this. Gays, women and racial minorities are just another source of income for them. Most CEOs are straight white men (there are exceptions but not enough). That said, if you're an employee employed these corporations and they are paying you then technically you must abide by their rules being they are private entities.

Also, for many Greek and Eastern European immigrants, The Orthodox Church is a source of their pride and identity. The Orthodox church is very homophobic. Many immigrants are from conservative and religious cultures. That's why I don't understand why people act so shocked at Latinos voting Republican when many are Catholic and Evangelical.

Looks like his mama was a drinker. FASface.

I don't see why anyone cares what some random sports guy who they'll never meet thinks about homosexuality.

WHAT?!?!

R6, exactly. I want team management and coaches to create environments to make it easier for athletes to come out.

And showing solidarity by wearing a pride symbol is part of that. And encouraging members of the team to do that.

But disciplining a guy for refusing? No way. No one should be forced to wear symbols that go against their beliefs

It's clear Provorov is anti-gay. He may never change, but an out teammate might help him change.

This homophobic fucker's contract didn't say "Wear our team's uniform unless you don't want to and then you can just wear what you want."

There are no exceptions for the Bronze Age scribblings of a bunch of bigoted religious fanatics in the desert.

[quote] extra money by selling cause specific merchandise

I’d also like to focus on this part of the statement. This shows clear monetary reasoning why the players actions might hurt the rights of the employer to make profits.

As a Russian Orthodox Christian, he should accept all of God's creations.

[quote] must be a self-hating Republican.

Save it, Chairman Mao.

[quote] I always see this as an employer’s rights issue. Is it too much to expect employees to wear the uniform the employer chooses?

Okay, so you’d wear a MAGA Jersey then.

A former Boston Bruins coach was notorious for “grooming” the younger players.

Pretty sure murdering people isn't what Christ would have supported...

R32, you can sling invective all you like but ours is, hopefully, still a nation of laws built on the English common law principle of right to property. The owners of these companies, as rich as they are, deserve the same blind legal treatment as the next person.

R35 = MAGAt

Why are pride jerseys necessary? We gays are above sports anyway.

[quote] And it's also funny that the same people demanding this worthless asswipe be benched screamed bloody murder when NFL owners talked about benching players who kneeled for the anthem.

This never happened.

You are putting words in other people's mouths yet again.

When did the fucking Russians decide they're Christ's Chosen People?

I think a bunch of straight athletes wearing prides shirts, whether voluntarily or not. is completely absurd. I don't expect or need any of them to wear the jersey. If it's a whole team doing something, it looks inherently coerced, which totally defeats whatever the point was in the first place.

The Russian Orthodox church canonized the Romanov martyrs, so they do do some good things.

[quote]God I hate when the sports leagues do shit like this (making players wear rainbow stuff). There's always some asshole that doesn't want to do it, and you're just making martyrs out of them. And it's all completely performative bullshit anyway.

All sports are performative, so let's stop with that lame excuse as to why they shouldn't show support to various groups and organizations.

Part of a players' contract is that they will fulfill their obligations to these special events. What's bullshit here is some guy getting paid millions and then saying nah, he hates the gays, he won't do what the rest of the team is doing because he wants to make it clear he hates the gays.

If that happened with any other event these teams did -- the military appreciation and cancer awareness events -- people would be outraged.

But on here, because DL is now 80% straight fuckheads like you, we're supposed to say that it's okay, he can just not fulfill the terms of his contract because making it publicly clear that he hates gays is the most important thing.

[quote]I don’t think employers should force employees to participate in causes just so that the employer can get woke points or extra money by selling cause specific merchandise which is what is happening here.

I'd love to see all the threads you've posted in where you've said that NHL players are being unfairly used to sell jerseys, posters, or any other branded merchandise.

[quote] Ivan Provorov "Why I Won't Wear Pride Jersey"

What does he have to be proud about?

Why should he display someone else's 'pride'?

I stand with Ivan.

[quote] Sure. don't wear a pride jersey but don't use your religion as an excuse. When you do, it becomes clear that you hate gays.

OK, R4. I'm 6'3" and I refuse to wear a mini-skirt, twinset and pearls. Do you think my refusal makes me a misogynist?

R3 Deidre Hall definitely started this shit years ago

[quote] As a Russian Orthodox Christian, he should accept all of God's creations.

Yes, and he must wear clothing on his body to advertise other men who like to sodomise each other.

[quote]I respect everybody’s choices

Religion is a choice, being gay isn't.

That’s silly they’re from Pennsylvania why would they wear a shirt that says Jersey?

I don't care if he doesn't wear a Pride Jersey, but NONE of these people would dare not wear jersey celebrating Black History Month of Holocaust Remembrance Day and claim "MY religion!!!"

[quote] OK, [R4]. I'm 6'3" and I refuse to wear a mini-skirt, twinset and pearls. Do you think my refusal makes me a misogynist?

What a stupid comparison. Who's asking you to wear a mini-skirt?

Do you claim your religion prevents you from wearing one?

[quote]“I respect everybody and I respect everybody’s choices. My choice is to stay true to myself and my religion.” - his faith is Russian Orthodox

"Except for the part of Orthodoxy that says I shouldn't have pre-marital sex."

As long as Sidney Crosby doesn't come out, all NHL "gay-friendly propaganda" is pure marketing/PR bullshit.for me.

What does his religion actually say that he refuses to acknowledge gays? That gays don't really exist? That gays shouldn't have any rights?

and what about his stupid statement about "choices"???!!! Like being gay is a choice

[quote]I always see this as an employer’s rights issue. Is it too much to expect employees to wear the uniform the employer chooses? You’re paying them and courts have already ruled that free speech protections do not extend to the private work place.

It should be noted that this wasn't an official team thing, it was arranged by the two Flyers "Hockey is for Everyone" and "You Can Play" Ambassadors. Also note that this isn't the first time Provorov declined to participate in Pride Night.

[quote]On past Pride Nights, Flyers players used Pride tape on their sticks, and it was optional. Provorov unsurprisingly never used it. But this time, players wanted to do more. The Flyers wanted to wear pride jerseys — as a unified whole — to signify their strong support for the LGBTQ+ community because they felt it was the right thing to do.

Surprisingly enough, even Tony DeAngelo, who I recently saw referred to as Tony QAngelo wore the jersey but that's probably because he knows he's running out of chances in the NHL.

This is the Flyers coach.

[quote]As long as Sidney Crosby doesn't come out, all NHL "gay-friendly propaganda" is pure marketing/PR bullshit.for me.

I think with some people it's genuine, R54. This is an interview with Scott Laughton about 2022's Pride Night.

[quote] Also note that this isn't the first time Provorov declined to participate in Pride Night.

R56 What has Provorov got to be proud about?

Pride Night is about trying to attract a LGBT audience. To do that, you have to show support for LGBT equality.

Provorov is a homophobe, which for some reason is a-okay while racism and anti-semitism are not

[quote] Pride Night is about trying to attract a LGBT audience.

That's what YOU say. But you're not being asked to wear advertising on your body which is entirely irrelevant to how you live your life.

[quote] I don't care if he doesn't wear a Pride Jersey, but NONE of these people would dare not wear jersey celebrating Black History Month of Holocaust Remembrance Day and claim "MY religion!!!

Has this happened? Or are you hypothesizing?

[quote] You can't force someone to support LGBT.

And you can't force people to like things.

I will never like vaginas. And I'll never advertise vaginas.

R46 No, but refusing to wear a jersey in favour of equal rights for women would. Which is roughly equivalent, unlike your example.

An amorphous lobby group forcing others to do things against their will is just the same as capitalist corporations enforcing rigid rules of conduct on others.

Individual freedoms aren't permitted.

[quote] The NHL released a statement . . . stating that "players are free to decide which initiatives to support."

What actually are they initiating?

I don't think he should be forced to wear a logo or statement piece of clothing/equipment that goes against his personal beliefs. But I do think the organization—which is in the entertainment business and depends on public goodwill for its cash flow—should consider the cost/benefit ratio of employing someone whose bigotry against a specific demographic is such a dearly held belief that he's willing to make a public spectacle of his opposition to their promotional efforts to reach out to said demographic.

If this homophobe was on my city’s team, this would turn me off from attending any of their games.

R1, agreed. Russians purport to hate the U.S., but they certainly love American wealth and the dollar. And they regularly dropped anchor babies during Trump's term, specifically Florida (surprise, surprise).

[Quote] Has this happened? Or are you hypothesizing?

Sports Teams are constantly having specialty nights to attract all sorts of fans. Constantly.

I’m sure he has never said no to anything else

[quote] I’m sure he has never said no

Let's get some facts before we condemn someone for failing to match our superior morality.

[Quote] [R46] No, but refusing to wear a jersey in favour of equal rights for women would.

Yes, but no would would DARE not wear a jersey in favor of women’s equality. No one. Sports teams are desperate to get female fans, half the world’s population. If a player said my religion doesn’t allow me to wear such a jersey, that player would be out of a job the next day.

And your example of making someone wear a miniskirt is just idiotic. No one is asking him to wear anything more than an insignia of gay pride, not a bejeweled jock strap

[Quote] Let's get some facts before we condemn someone for failing to match our superior morality.

Can you think of ANYTHING else that someone in today’s America could say “my religion” as a reason not to support?

Well, this is disappointing.

Sigh. Provorov's jersey has sold out. As I said above, all this did was make him a hero to the right wing. Even more bizarrely, Sean Avery, who used to pal around with Andy Cohen and was strongly rumored to be gay, is screaming his support from the rooftops on his Twitter account. I have no idea what the fuck is up with that.

[quote]If this homophobe was on my city’s team, this would turn me off from attending any of their games.

The Flyers alienated a lot of fans when they signed Tony DeAngelo last summer.

From R76:

[quote]DeAngelo has a track record of disruption, antagonism, and most importantly outright racism, sexism, and homophobia.

[quote]DeAngelo was suspended more than once during his junior career in the Ontario Hockey League per ESPN, including once for violating the OHL's policy on "homophobic, racist, and sexist language" as well as abuse of officials. He received another suspension for abuse of officials early in his NHL career while with the Coyotes.

[quote]DeAngelo said he attended counseling classes because of his continued use of racial slurs, per The Athletic, which he described as "sports psychology" classes.

[quote]DeAngelo said he knows he can't take back the actions, but he regretted what he said.

[quote]During his time with the Rangers, DeAngelo once again butted heads - this time with then-teammate Alex Georgiev. The two reportedly got into a physical altercation, reportedly started by DeAngelo, and had to be separated by a teammate.

[quote]Then there's DeAngelo's outspoken support of former President of the United States Donald Trump on social media (including assertions that the state of Pennsylvania was trying to "rig" the 2020 election) and his public questioning of the legitimacy of the COVID-19 pandemic.

From R76:

[quote]DeAngelo has a track record of disruption, antagonism, and most importantly outright racism, sexism, and homophobia.

[quote]DeAngelo was suspended more than once during his junior career in the Ontario Hockey League per ESPN, including once for violating the OHL's policy on "homophobic, racist, and sexist language" as well as abuse of officials. He received another suspension for abuse of officials early in his NHL career while with the Coyotes.

[quote]DeAngelo said he attended counseling classes because of his continued use of racial slurs, per The Athletic, which he described as "sports psychology" classes.

[quote]DeAngelo said he knows he can't take back the actions, but he regretted what he said.

[quote]During his time with the Rangers, DeAngelo once again butted heads - this time with then-teammate Alex Georgiev. The two reportedly got into a physical altercation, reportedly started by DeAngelo, and had to be separated by a teammate.

[quote]Then there's DeAngelo's outspoken support of former President of the United States Donald Trump on social media (including assertions that the state of Pennsylvania was trying to "rig" the 2020 election) and his public questioning of the legitimacy of the COVID-19 pandemic.

"Let's get some facts before we condemn someone for failing to match our superior morality."

He's the one acting superior

Typical Russian trash. So holy -- a nation of whores, wife-beaters, and alcoholics.

I don't need a Russian puck-pusher to validate me.

It's money, r75. People figured out during Trump's term that you can make big fistfuls of cash by catering to the rightwing nutjob consumer, who will buy anything -- literally anything -- if they are convinced it'll own the libs. In turn, celebrities have started talking big about "supporting freedom of speech" and "being against cancel culture" to help keep them viable to rightwingers who they think will boycott them if they dare say anything liberal.

It's also that we're in a really conservative, regressive period of time right now. Trolls, bigots, and stupids have yammered on for so long about how anything even remotely liberal has ruined the world that gullible people have just gone along with it. It helps that the media is decidedly biased toward Republicans.

I’ve changed on this over the years. Clearly he’s a bigot and his use of words like “choice” make that clear. At the same time, I do think society would be better off as a whole if we hadn’t gotten so immersed in identity politics and forced representation. While the goal is a good one, it’s actually fractured and tribalized us more than I think we would’ve otherwise been.

[quote]Can you think of ANYTHING else that someone in today’s America could say “my religion” as a reason not to support?

Premarital sex, abortion, divorce, assisted suicide, blood transfusions, caffeine, pork and automobiles, just for starters.

[quote] At the same time, I do think society would be better off as a whole if we hadn’t gotten so immersed in identity politics and forced representation. While the goal is a good one, it’s actually fractured and tribalized us more than I think we would’ve otherwise been.

What caused "identity politics" was the right wing passing laws that discriminate against specific groups. The right wing did everything they could to block the rights of specific groups that don't support the right--Blacks, women, gays, Muslims, immigrants, etc.--and then specifically targeted each one.

[quote] Premarital sex, abortion, divorce, assisted suicide, blood transfusions, caffeine, pork and automobiles, just for starters.

LOL. seriously? Everyone does ALL those things nowadays.

If a hockey player said "I'm going to wear a logo supporting the team's sponsor, a pork manufacturer, "because of my religion," that player would be fired pronto.

Don't bench him. Don't fire him. Don't even admonish him.

We all, however, know he's a homophobe.

Any company that wants to hire him to advertise now won't touch him.

[quote]If a hockey player said "I'm going to wear a logo supporting the team's sponsor, a pork manufacturer, "because of my religion," that player would be fired pronto.

I guess we'll see if that's true if Muslim player Nazem Kadri, who eschews pork (and alcohol) because of his religion, is ever asked to wear a Honey Baked Ham logo on his jersey.

R88, Let's see. What we know now is Provorov invoked his religion to claim that he can't recognize gay pride. Does his religion say that gays can't possibly be proud?

[quote] Any company that wants to hire him to advertise now won't touch him.

Countdown to him becoming a spokesman for Chick-fil-A and Hobby Lobby in 3... 2... 1...

I'm not understanding why so many people believe he has to conform to the others. Can't he 'speak his truth' (which is steeped in his Russian Orthodox faith) and be accepted ? If it's not something he supports, then it's not something he supports - be done with it. It's part of 'diversity', where not everyone is the same but all should feel welcome.

R91, you ignore the contract he chose to sign. No one is saying he can’t believe what he believes, but when you sign a contract which undoubtedly requires you to uphold the morals of the organization you are giving over some of your freedoms of expression in exchange for your pay.

R92 I am certain that clause in the contract he signed is very vaguely worded, and open to loose interpretation which covers his decision.

[quote]No one is saying he can’t believe what he believes, but when you sign a contract which undoubtedly requires you to uphold the morals of the organization you are giving over some of your freedoms of expression in exchange for your pay.

He's still employed, so it seems the team is fine with his decision.

There's that one Russian player who denounced Putin. I think the rest are trash, including this guy and Ovechkin. Putin supporters should be banned from the league.

[quote] gay pride. Does his religion say that gays can't possibly be proud?

Proud of what?

Is your pride more important than his pride?

[quote] Is your pride more important than his pride?

R96, WTF does he have to feel proud about exactly?

He looks like utter shit for 23-years-old. I thought he was closer to 40.

Most right wingers will say when they talk about 'woke' and 'virtue signalling' they're talking about the trans stuff, or the over the top climate change protests, etc. They'll emphatically say they don't mean things like gay rights and same sex marriage.

Then stuff like this happens and they say it's woke virtual signalling. So it IS woke to be favour of gay rights according to them after all.

It can be true that he AND the jersey are stupid

R98 russians are born suicidal and it really wears them down quickly

While I think the guy's beliefs on gays are bullshit, I just had to ask myself, "Would I want to wear a pride jersey that had the new pride flag with one or both of the trans and blm stuff on it?" (hell no) to get my view on the matter. Don't make him wear the damn jersey. Just play hockey.

R75 I didn't know who he was, so I looked up his recent podcast and he sounds like a prick. He says Provorov is a "hero" and says if he is a homophobe then he should be allowed to be. (Though says if people are against the military maybe they should find a different country to live in.)

And apparently because he argued in favour of same sex marriage back in 2011 he's got the "ultimate free pass" to speak on gay rights.

I suppose the funny thing is he sounds really annoyed, so he's clearly rattled by it.

Sean Avery is a prime example of a stoner jock who got old and became a stoner Libertarian, i.e. he clings to his more liberal identity and while spouting the same talking points as the conservatives and refusing to admit he’s become a cranky old man like the rest of them.

All the team was trying to show was some support for a minority that’s been shit on for most of humanity.

He couldn’t even muster the courage to do that.

Wearing a pride jersey doesn’t make you gay. It doesn’t mean you even accept gays.

It just means you support their struggle.

His struggle is bigger than someone else's struggle.

He should be sent back to Russia and forced to participate in their ill-fated war. Then he'll know some struggle...

The New York Rangers decided at the very last minute not to wear pride jerseys/tape on their Pride Night game. There are also two Russian players on the team. So you do the math. Either come down like a ton of bricks on players who won't wear the jersey (and turn the fans against you as well as potential legal action) or stop having teams wear jerseys unless you get 100% buy-in well in advance.

[quote] There are also two Russian players on the team

The Russians think everything about themselves and their culture is best -- why the hell don't they stay over there and play in the Russian NHL?

[quote] The Russians think everything about themselves and their culture is best

95% of human beings think everything about themselves and their culture is best.

How much money do you think players make in the Russian hockey league, r110? That's 90% of it right there. Also the NHL is believed to be the best hockey league in the world, so why wouldn't one want to make it there? The Russian players shouldn't have been allowed to stay in the league, but the NHL isn't exactly known for bravery on issues like this. I just hope to God that if the war is still going on in 2024 they get booted from the Olympics, but if the NHL is cowardly, the IOC is basically pure evil.

[quote] I just hope to God that if the war is still going on in 2024 they get booted from the Olympics,

I'm with you here. Screw Russia -- I'm sick of everyone treating them with kid gloves. BAN them!

I don't think he should go to prison but his boss should have fired him for being public about his homophobia. Wear the damn jersey or don't wear it but certainly don't to the media and say the equivalent of "I ain't wearing no faggy jersey because it goes against muh beliefs, muh Bible and muh god". The whole situation is extremely trashy and it makes the team look trashy by association.

[quote] I ain't wearing no faggy jersey

Is that a quote? Verbatim?

I'm sure a Russian sounds exactly like that, R114.

I don’t wear my pride jersey either, I just kiss all the fellas and grab for the belt.

Part 2 🤦🏻