Donna Summer: Could her career have gone further if she wasn't a homophobe?

"Supposedly" being the key word. No record of her ever saying it has surfaced, nor AFAIK has anyone ever stepped forward to say that they heard her say it.

She was known for disco hits.

As disco faded, she became less popular but her audiences still loved the disco hits.

I saw a concert on youtube where she sang 'On the Radio' long after disco and the audience loved it, of course.

Her career stalled when she died.

I saw her in concert around 2012 and it was . . . underwhelming - not bad, just eh. Her voice was still fairly good, but she was tired, and it was a weird energy.

r4 Donna died in May 2012, so if she was tired and have weird energy in the concert, maybe that was because her body was giving up.

She waited way too long to respond to the anti-gay comments, it took years. She should've nipped that in the bud right away. If she'd had a competent, professional team behind her instead of her idiot husband as her manager, things would've turned out very differently.

You are leaving out the "Disco Sucks", a proto maga movement rooted in antigay and anti Black American sentiment from your query.

Here's video of Summer singing live. Few performers then or now can perform live at this caliber.

She had a huge comeback hit with She Works Hard For The Money in 1983. It’s crazy she couldn’t ride that success into more hits at the time. Did The Pointer Sisters steal her thunder with all their hits from Break Out in 1984?

It’s hard to overestimate how big the disco backlash was and her name was practically synonymous with disco. If anyone stole her thunder, I’d say it was Tina Turner. Donna wanted to do more rock-oriented material, but Tina did it better and wasn’t saddled with the disco label.

It didn’t help that Donna didn’t have much exceptionally strong material after 1980. She needed more songs like “She Works Hard for the Money.”

R1 she wrote an apology years later but by then the negativity had taken over her image. She akso became a born again Christian later in life and simular to Prince she started to denounce her earlier sexual image and music.

She had a ton of hits after the disco era too.

I saw her in concert and she was the real deal--what a booming, rich voice

[quote]she wrote an apology years later

In that letter she said that she had never claimed that AIDS was a punishment for being gay.

^ That’s something i would've cleared up right away R12. Sadly the rumors stayed with her even after the letter.

People forget the internet wasn't around then. There was no way for someone like her or a PR team to calculate the amount of discussion or impressions a rumor like that was making out in the world. They probably knew about it and then thought they would make the situation 100x worse by addressing it and issuing a denial.

If there's 50,000 people out there who think you said something bad and you issue a press release or have a press conference that reaches 20 million and 90% of viewers believe you, you've now got 40 times as many people (2 million) believing the lie.

Op needs to jump into the pacific ocean

Giorgio Moroder claimed in that Donna really was homophobic and it did put a strain on their relationsihp.

[quote] Divergent personal beliefs turned that professional fissure into a fault. “Donna became quite religious,” says Moroder, as he strides past a wall of gold and platinum records. “She made me record a dance song about Jesus, dear God. And she really did not like gays — her attitude was sometimes difficult in the ’80s.” (Summer has denied ever making anti-gay statements.) “We were never ‘estranged,’ but for a long time we did not have the relationship we once did.”

Fuck you, r7.

[quote] You are leaving out the "Disco Sucks", a proto maga movement rooted in antigay and anti Black American sentiment from your query.

I am not now, nor have I ever been MAGA or "proto-maga" you loon. I've never been antigay nor am I a racist. I didn't like most disco and still don't. Keep your bullshit fantasy theories to yourself, you're overreaching.

I'm not sure how she could have gone much further than she did, OP. She became an international superstar, reaching a level of fame that very, very few reach.

I thought we established that it was David Geffen who spread the story that Donna made that statement. And he lied.

You're a touchy, little thing, ain't ya?

I didn't accuse you of being maga. I stupidly answered your question assuming you wanted to chat a bit about the subject.

I was wrong about this and will not bother going forward.

That's always been the rumor r20. Donna and Geffen didn't get along.

I didn't accuse you of being racist either but you're the type who is too busy arguing with the voices in your head to pay attention.

It is not me, it is all on you.

Why does it seem like this same exact post is made every 9 months. Like no kidding, almost verbatim. Who is this?

Related

Her live rendition of "MacArthur Park" in 2005 at Night of the Proms is one of the best performances I've ever heard or seen

[quote] People forget the internet wasn't around then. There was no way for someone like her or a PR team to calculate the amount of discussion or impressions a rumor like that was making out in the world.

Wrong it was huge and it was everywhere at the time. She knew. They knew.

R27, which makes me think she really did say it and has those beliefs. Will never know, still love her. Times were different then.

Only if you come with me R15 I'm gonna need something fat to float on.

She was one of a kind. Even her 1991 dud of an album was wonderful. C’mon. If Donald Trump can get away with all the shit he has, I’m sure we can forgive Donna Summer for saying something stupid.

Well, I'll say this, once she started singing there's was no mistake who was singing.

She still made great pop music into the late 80s, working with SAW on several hits. But I think that "euro" sound was mostly successful outside of the US at the time, so her star faded in the US in the late 80s and into the 90s. However, she did get a boost in the late 90s when there was a bit of a 70s revival and interest in things like disco music and Studio 54 increased.

One thing that I think held her back was that she mostly focused on a mainstream pop/dance sound, which favors younger artists on radio. Sure, there are exceptions to this, like Cher with "Believe," but a lot of times older pop/dance artists are faced with a choice to either go more adult contemporary and milk old hits for nostalgia, or really take some risks with new material by going way outside of the box and their comfort zone to win back relevance.

A good example of the latter would be Cher, whose music career petered out after the early 90s. But she came back with a totally new sound in '98 with Believe, and it worked. I think one can argue, too, that Madonna maintained relevance and interest, despite an aging pop career, by trying a lot of new sounds and taking risks with things like Ray Of Light and, later, Music. Had she stuck to the type of music she made on Bedtime Stories, I think her career would have missed the upswing it had in the late 90s and early 2000s, which included winning a lot of new and younger fans.

Cruel Summer

She had a bunch of lackluster producers late in her career. Some of her song choices were just stupid.

Bad Girls was my jam!

“That’s My Jam” is a casual, fun way to express what is your personal preference. Originally, it was used to indicate musical preferences only, because “Jam” is a word from the musical world. However, with time it became a phrase you can use to express any personal preference you have.

Didn’t she turn down a few blockbuster soundtrack songs ,”I’ve had the time of my life” and “Up where we belong”.

r37 Donna turned those down and several others in the 80s. Again, her Jesus shit and idiot husband really got in her own way. She could've had HUGE movie soundtrack theme songs throughout the 80s.

[quote] C’mon. If Donald Trump can get away with all the shit he has, I’m sure we can forgive Donna Summer for saying something stupid.

Fucking Donald Trump has nothing to do with this topic. JFC get help.

Stamp Your Feet, while not a big hit near the end of her career, was still an enjoyable track. Written by Danielle Brisebois.

"It's Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve, you silly homos!"

[quote] Donna turned those down and several others in the 80s. Again, her Jesus shit and idiot husband really got in her own way. She could've had HUGE movie soundtrack theme songs throughout the 80s.

Because of her connection with disco, few radio stations were playing her songs at all...until She Works Hard for the Money.

It's questionable if those theme songs would have been hits if she sang them.

[quote] Stamp Your Feet, while not a big hit near the end of her career, was still an enjoyable track. Written by Danielle Brisebois.

This was just an example of the stupid lyrics so many of Donna Summer's later songs had.

She could've had a great career in the 80s. Fame, Flashdance, Gloria, Take My Breath Away, I've Had The Time of My Life, Jump For My Love, New Attitude, I Wanna Dance With Somebody could've all been sung by her.

She still had a great career in the 1980’s

Donna Summer documentary coming to HBO in May.

R45, was she actually offered any of those songs?

The ACT UP letter post says the original comments were published in the Village Voice......wonder if any of you librarian queens can find it?

She did have a short comeback of sorts in 1999/2000 with her rendition of "Con Te Partiro". I recall her being on VH-1 quite a lot, including a packed concert she gave (in SF, I think) to an audience of screaming gays, which was even commercially released as "Live & More Encore."

[quote] She could've had a great career in the 80s. Fame, Flashdance, Gloria, Take My Breath Away, I've Had The Time of My Life, Jump For My Love, New Attitude, I Wanna Dance With Somebody could've all been sung by her.

Her career was tarnished mainly because it was so closely associated with disco. I doubt any of those songs would have gotten radio play had she sung them.

I can't even imagine her singing New Attitude: ooh, ooh, ooh, ooh, oooooh, I've got a new attitude.

r51 Donna still had a few hits in the 80s, she survived the disco era. She never should've had a falling out with Girogio Moroder and she never should've listened to her idiot husband, who managed her career and made awful decisions.

[Quote]she never should've listened to her idiot husband, who managed her career and made awful decisions.

100% agree, R52. From being a manager to being one of her backup singers on tour, always by her side. And he had no showmanship. Nothing. Hes still trying to make new music and find an audience and he's just blah. When I look at her various live performances and concerts from the 80s and on, I want to smack him. What a real manager with real vision could have done with her and her catalog as opposed to those stale concert arrangements, the bad pacing, the tired dialogue between songs. A real manager would have jettisoned all that. But Bruce just let it all go on and on and on.

And Donna's daughter is now all over Magnolia network with her shitty awful quasireligious music

[quote] Donna still had a few hits in the 80s, she survived the disco era. She never should've had a falling out with Girogio Moroder and she never should've listened to her idiot husband, who managed her career and made awful decisions.

Yes, but it took a long time before Summer was played on radio after the disco debacle. I would guess she was among the last of the artists to get airplay again. The BeeGees died as a group and made an amazing new career as writers and producers.

[quote] And Donna's daughter is now all over Magnolia network with her shitty awful quasireligious music

Is it Mimi? the one who was with her on stage at the United Nations benefit?

R56 It's Amanda, she and her husband have a band "johnnyswim".

......

R52 But he was gay & I was all about the Jesus then !

r53 Donna could've done much better from the 80s onward if she'd had a professional, competent management team who knew what the fuck they were doing. Michael Jackson, Lionel Richie and Madonna both had Freddy DeMann, for example, and he did wonders for all of them in the 80s. It's a shame Donna allowed Bruce Sudano total control, he had no background in artist management and had no idea what to do.

Sorry, that should've been "Michael Jackson, Lionel Richie and Madonna ALL had Freddy DeMann."

Donna should've signed on with Roger Davies, who engineered Tina Turner's extraordinary comeback in the 80s. Talk about a lost opportunity!

R51, they totally would've gotten airplay. She got airplay for The Wanderer, Love Is Control and She Works Hard For The Money.

Her daughters with Bruce are fairly liberal. Amanda follows and comments on the preachers with sneakers IG page which makes fun of evangelical prosperity preachers. Mimi has been married for almost 30 years and has 4 kids. Bruce was a part of the group Brooklyn dreams which did the heaven knows duet.

Joe Esposito was going to duet with Donna on time if my life but she hated the title of the movie. I think she could’ve been a female equivalent of Kenny loggins in the 80s and been a soundtrack queen.

An officer and a gentlemen, top gun and dirty dancing were all huge movies so even with the disco backlash the songs would’ve still been giant hits because of the success of the film.

Donna was so stupid to turn down I've Had the Time Of My Life. That song was a monster hit and made millions of $$$.

" Farther," not " further."

She became a homophobe much later in career. She was already a disco legend by that time. The Gays still bought her album, Con Te Partiró in the 2000s. She actually appeared at Roxy in NYC to perform it to a packed audience one Saturday night. I was there. I was not gonna miss my chance to see Donna Summer.

No video footage, old magazine/newpaper clippings or even personal accounts have ever surfaced of this woman being homophobic. She even spent the last 20 years or so of her life denouncing these unsubstantiated claims.

And yet 40 YEARS LATER (& 15 years after her death) bitter & senile DL Queens are STILL creating topics and feigning outrage about these supposed 1982 gay bashings.

How many times does this nonsense need to be debunked?!

R68 I have to agree with you. I do remember when she became a born again christian, it was just assumed she aligned with all of their beliefs. Nothing has really proven this. I was wrong at R68 to use the moniker homophobe. Given the fact that late in her career, when she obviously didn't have to, she showed up at the biggest gay club in NYC at the time to perform her song would be proof enough to me that she wasn't a homophobe. It was a huge dance hit that year on i's own. She didn't have to show up to promote it, but she didn't and gave a great performance.

The homophobe claims were substantiated by Moroder. It's not hard to believe that a black American, born again Christian was homophobic decades ago. It's atypical not to be, given the demographic and time period.

Pandering to her gay base doesn't prove much either, they were all she had left by the 90s. It's always the gays who stay loyal

Summers is dead now so who cares.

This happened. More than once, which accounts for how word of this spread like wildfire, pre-internet. Donna would proselytise at her concerts, at the height of her fame.

Apparently, she repented for this, later in life.

R70 Exactly! Some people are acting obtuse in here. R68 Go fuck yourself. Jump into a greasefire cunt. I'm younger than you think, I wasn't alive in the early 80's that's why this topic was created. I can do what I want so fuck off. I dont understand why people dont just ignore certain threads instead of coming in complaining.

Why do young people blame their ignorance on the year they were born like r73. "I wasn't born yet," is not a valid reason not to know something, especially when you are talking about someone's career that took place MOSTLY in the years before you were born. When I was born in the 70s it was long after a lot of major cultural, historical events occurred and I was aware of them growing up. Elvis, the Beatles, Buddy Holly, Billie Holiday all happened before I was born, yet I knew about them growing up. And those that I wasn't necessarily aware of, I kept quiet about and learned from people older than me. Yet you R73 start an entire thread making claims about someone you yourself say weren't alive to really know who they were.

Please stop saying, I wasn't born then. It makes you sound really ignorant.

R74 you know what they say... "you can't fix stupid".

There is no excuse for the aforementioned idiots when a trove of artist information exists online and one can do a wiki search for a quick list of artist accomplishments.

R74, R75 Fuck both of you persnickety, senile old bastards.

Donna's 70s albums were uniformly excellent - the album tracks were just as good as the singles, not a single dud or throwaway song on any of them. Then in the 80s she kind of lost her way. She still had some great songs, but the albums as a whole weren't as consistently good as the 70s albums.

And of course in the 80s there were the anti-gay rumors that really tarnished her with her most important fan base. The rumors started in the early 80s and she waited a full DECADE before she addressed them, which was outrageous. If she'd had competent management instead of her moron husband, those rumors would've been refuted as soon as they started to appear and her reputation wouldn't have suffered. That's PR 101. Crazy that she waited so long.

While some claim she would say anti gay things—no one has ever produced a recording or even an in-person witness who documented what she apparently said that was so homophobic.

If she did it during all her concerts, we would have had more direct witnesses

Actually R76 your generation is already fucked.

I would have to say Gen X is probably one of the luckiest American generations. We were probably the first since the Civil War that didn't have to face a mass war enlisting or draft. We were probably the last generation of kids where the future was something exciting to look forward to and not a burden hanging over our heads. We grew up in a pre-internet world so we actually know how to interact, communicate with other human beings. We got to be kids and not stressed out little adults. We didn't have nuclear bomb drills OR mass shooter drills at school, just the occasional tornado drills depending on where you grew up. AIDS hit before a lot of us were sexually mature, so by the time we got to that stage, we knew how to protect ourselves. College was expensive but attainable. And we'll be dead or dying by the time the skies turn brown and NYC, LA and Miami go under water. And we got to dance to Donna Summer's music as kids until our heart's were content without wondering if she was a homophobe, whatever that meant...

^ Oh, and big Pharma hadn't taken over so not every little emotion or feeling of discomfort was regulated by a pill. ADHD, what's that?

I have done research on this. As far as generations go, there are more dead Millennials and GenZers proportion wise than there are Gen Xers. About 81% percent of us are still around while shockingly on 75% of GenZ, Millennials - which is absolutely insane. They are fairing just a little bit better than older Baby Boomers right now. It's actually kind of scary.

I know cell phones weren't around to record everything, but a star of her status was definitely being filmed.

In my honest opinion, there would be footage of this somewhere if she had said anything against gay people.

That's where I am leaving it with Donna. The woman has passed and let her rest in peace.

I've always thought that Donna was briefly homophobic during her most intense "born again" phase in the early-mid 80's and said some things that were homophobic but unfortunately typical of the time (the "God made Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve" comment which has been mentioned by many people who went to her early 80's shows). I don't think some of the most inflammatory comments credited to her like "AIDS is God's punishment to gays" were accurate because there would've been a recording or more eyewitness accounts for it.

However, I think it's obvious she came around later in her life and backed that up with real actions. She did benefit concerts that raised hundreds of thousands of dollars for Gay Men's Health Crisis, not exactly the actions of a homophobe. Obviously people can say she did it because the rumors were affecting her bottom line, but ultimately I think even if she said the worst things people claimed she did, she more than made up for it in the end. She's like the relative that initially freaks out because you're gay but then becomes supportive, it does no one any good to stay angry about it.

She was not homophobic and she never said that. I saw her perform at the Saint back it the day and if she was homophobic I’m KKK. She was surrounded by gay men her rbtire career and knew who made her a star-

She was raised in the black church and came from a deeply religious, conservative family. Learned to sing in the choir. I think she was more reluctant to speak out than homophobic. And no, I’m not defending a lack of courage. The wonderful study of the gay subculture in black gospel music is covered in “The Fan that Knew Too Much.” The shit that went on backstage rivaled The Spike in 1971..

[Quote] She was raised in the black church and came from a deeply religious, conservative family. Learned to sing in the choir.

She was also an actress in musicals (In Germany) and the queen of disco— constantly surrounded by gay men.

R79, I’m likewise a GenXer. Your analysis is accurate and impressive.

I saw her at what I still consider the best Pride event I've been to: Kathy Griffin opened and Donna was the headliner. Disney World in 2007 or 2006, I think. Both were amazing. Griffin was at her manic funniest making fun of performing at Disney World and, during her lwn set Summer played the diva as it began lightly raining and a Disney employee--who was grinning and queening out the whole time-- had to hold a Mickey Mouse umbrella over her head for a good chunk of the performance, which ended with, of course, a fireworks show. A fantastic night.

I remember there was one particular year in NYC dance club history where I got to see Holy Trinity of Dicso Divas. In a short period of time I got to see Donna Summer, Martha Wash perform It's Raining Men and Gloria Gaynor perform I Will Survive. I felt my work on the dance floor was finished after that.