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Do you know anyone raised without religion who become religious as an adult?

I've been thinking about this lately. I know several people who were raised in religious families and then either became nonreligious as adults, or joined another religion/denomination. I am not sure I know anyone who was raised without any religion who then embraced religion as an adult.

I think that being raised in (any) religion profoundly shapes how one views the world.

by Anonymousreply 73March 25, 2023 12:15 PM

Yes it does happen. There is nothing harmful about finding one’s own meaning in life. Religious participation provides a sense of community awareness while attempting to build a better world. My personal experience has been that religious expression is a human quest to manage uncertainty and make peace with one’s conscience and sense of mortality. Some people appreciate ritual, including me. I also have observed (ymmv) that religious fanaticism is harmful. Joseph Campbell was an interesting person that provided wise commentary about how all religions are seeking similar truths.

by Anonymousreply 1January 13, 2023 2:48 PM

Interesting person with interesting views

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by Anonymousreply 2January 13, 2023 2:52 PM

yes, me. I was raised with no religion. I was told that death was just a black hole and that did I really think the Virgin Mary could become pregnant from a God. My father was an atheist and my mother was an agnostic. I learned about Jesus from the album Jesus Christ Superstar when I was 20.

When I was in my 20's I became a Catholic. I no longer participate in the church but it was the best thing I ever did. I could never decide if it was a good or bad thing that my parents did. They always said that they felt I should decide for myself about religion when I was an adult and could understand it. The bad thing was I had nothing to fall back on as a child.

I have never regretted becoming a Catholic and am grateful that I found religion and I am quite spiritual.

by Anonymousreply 3January 13, 2023 3:08 PM

Interesting, r3. Why Catholic (if you don't mind me asking)?

by Anonymousreply 4January 13, 2023 3:09 PM

Yes, but not as common as the other way around. I'd add the disclaimer that many of those I know who lost their religion just went over into crystals and similar that is really just as faith-based. Not sure that's a win for rationality, but whatever.

by Anonymousreply 5January 13, 2023 3:10 PM

r4 I grew up with a lot of Catholic friends and I seemed to be attracted to that church. It is a truly beautiful religion even though man ruins it constantly.

by Anonymousreply 6January 13, 2023 3:12 PM

My general experience has been that the more education one receives the less religious one becomes, but I'll state from the outset that this is not universal and I've also known some very educated people who nonetheless buy the bullshit that one religion or another shovels. My personal opinion is that religion appeals to the weak-minded who are incapable of accepting some basic truths, like we're all going to die and there is nothing after death, that you don't need a man-in-sky to determine right from wrong, and that the point of life is living it.

I'm proud of my niece and nephew, for example, for seeing the truth of religion. My brother and especially his wife are wrapped up in religion, and while I feel badly for the pain it has caused her, both kids went to college and realized the religion was all bunch of hoo-ha used to control them and everybody. Both of them, independently and not concurrently, suffered through religious pronouncement that was in contrast to reality, so renounced the religion and told their parents they would no longer participate.

I'd like to congratulate and say live-and-let-live to folks like R3 who find religion and it gives them comfort, but we've all seen the consequences of this philosophy. Bluntly, give religion an inch and they'll take a mile. For example: abortion. We had a working compromise with Roe, but no; they have to force their religion on everyone (because that's what their religion teaches them to do) and we all have to suffer their nonsense. And I shouldn't be flippant or disrespectful because that garners you no support, but this is an anonymous forum where we're all allowed to express our opinions with little consequence, so let's further be blunt and speak the truth: if you are against abortion, don't have one; otherwise, adopt a retarded brown baby or shut the fuck up.

by Anonymousreply 7January 13, 2023 3:22 PM

Yes, a former co-worker who was a great guy. He had absolutely no religious background until he met his wife and started attending her church.

Now he's not just religious, he's republican, anti-abortion, anti- gay marriage and once tried to defend conversion therapy to me.

by Anonymousreply 8January 13, 2023 3:28 PM

r3 here. I am not against abortion. I would never had had one but I believe God gave free will to everyone and it is everyone's right to choose anything for themselves. No one has the right to interfere with another's free will and their choices for their own lives. I do not think I ever judge people for their choices either.

by Anonymousreply 9January 13, 2023 3:33 PM

Most atheists don’t believe because of the lack of evidence &/or poor theological arguments. This makes it very unlikely that they’d suddenly do an about turn and say, “Hmmm…maybe it IS possible for this cheap wine to become the literal blood of Christ”.

People like R3/9 are usually people who have always considered themselves “spiritual” and just took a while to decide which pile of superstitious claptrap they want to embrace. They were never atheists in the usual sense of the world.

And, sorry….biut I find nothing fucking “beautiful” about a religion that deliberately and repulsively issued instructions to Africans that ensured they couldn’t protect themselves against AIDS.

by Anonymousreply 10January 13, 2023 3:44 PM

At 19, I met a woman in college who was beyond what you would call "a free spirit". She knew I was gay and we lived together for a while off campus. Our place was "party central" and more than once we shared the same guy. (It was the free-wheeling 70's and straight guys - especially high straight guys, were less inhibited than today.) She wasn't a drug dealer but if you wanted to get high or wasted, she could hook you up. We would hit the bars every weekend and it seemed everyone knew her. Wherever she went WAS the party.

We lost touch after college but then she contacted me about five years later by mail. (This was pre-internet days.) I was excited to open her letter. Inside was a photo of her, very conservatively dressed with her two babies, and a letter asking me if "I found the lord". At first I thought it was a joke but after seeing the Colorado Springs postmark, realized it wasn't.

by Anonymousreply 11January 13, 2023 3:56 PM

r10 you must not have read my post. I said the men in the church continuously screw it up. How could I possibly have been spiritual having learned no religion at home unless I brought it with me when I was born? If that is the case then it brings us into another realm of something existing other than us here on earth.

What I did get out of the Catholic church is the spirituality. I believe in a lot of things that the church either doesn't teach or is against. Once the church started, man made up the rules and this is where the downfall comes. If you take the spirituality from the church and build a base on that then you have a good foundation.

by Anonymousreply 12January 13, 2023 3:57 PM

Plenty of people raised as secular Jews become more observant, even orthodox.

by Anonymousreply 13January 13, 2023 3:57 PM


Insanity or the rational choice of mythic living in the guise of absurd doctrine and debasement of reality do exist.

The latter is less understandable to thinking minds.

by Anonymousreply 14January 13, 2023 4:01 PM

R2 kicked herself for now crapping out her "bragging rights" post as R2 rather than R1.

by Anonymousreply 15January 13, 2023 4:02 PM

R12 Yes, I know you said “the men of the church” continually screw it up. So what? It’s a man made “philosophy”. That’s like saying, “The KKK would be charming if nasty men didn’t keep burning crosses murdering black people”.

People who consider themselves “spiritual” are generally credulous, gullible and not very bright. If they are not religious then they think they’re “witches” or visit psychics, mediums and astrologers. They can’t distinguish between actual medicine and magic water and come out with crap like, “Science doesn’t know everything”. In other words, they’re dumb.

Spirituality is not actually a thing since there’s no such thing as spirits - or god/s for that matter. It’s an attitude more than anything else - so yes, you could well have always been (and probably were) that type of person even though your parents weren’t. Unless you’re trying to suggest that you threw logic to the wind and suddenly embraced absolute twaddle for no good reason, absent a deranging head injury or something.

by Anonymousreply 16January 13, 2023 4:12 PM

why do those that don't believe seem so angry at those that do? If you don't believe that is your choice but insulting those that do does not help anyone.

by Anonymousreply 17January 13, 2023 4:14 PM

*raises hand, sort of*

I didn't have an organized religion as a child at all and did join, at age 40ish, a somewhat organized religion (Unitarian Universalism)


That may not be what you meant. UU is not by any means an evangelical, restrictive sort of faith. I'm still questioning faith and the universe as much as I did before, but I have a wee bit of a framework now to at least organize and sort those thoughts, while having a community.

Also, while my mom despised the hypocrisy of people in church, who were pleasant on Sunday and hateful the rest of the week, she did believe in God and more importantly, tried to teach us lessons rooted in that belief. She never hit us over the head with anything beliefs-wise as kids, but she would occasionally pull out her Bible and discuss a particular passage or lesson when we were discussing a particular problem or something we saw on TV. And not in an oogity boogity way.....but: what does it mean to love your neighbor? What do your actions say about you?

If I was even going to be a Christian, I wish I could be one like mom. She lived her beliefs, volunteering at a thrift shop, taking home toys and clothes to wash and repair them, helping single women and young moms by paying for their purchases. She was the real deal.

by Anonymousreply 18January 13, 2023 4:19 PM

r16 I never suddenly embraced anything. I took a long time to decide things. It took me over 20 years to decide about abortion as I was torn both ways. It took me over 35 years to decide if I believed in reincarnation or not.

My favorite quote is by anon but given to me by a Presbyterian minister. "It is the wise man that continues to seek for answers while it is the fool that thinks he has found them."

by Anonymousreply 19January 13, 2023 4:20 PM

[quote] Spirituality is not actually a thing since there’s no such thing as spirits - or god/s for that matter.

What proof have you to offer in support of this statement?

by Anonymousreply 20January 13, 2023 4:43 PM

[quote]Do you know anyone raised without religion who become religious as an adult?

Certainly not the cute ones.

by Anonymousreply 21January 13, 2023 4:44 PM

R17 There are many, many reasons to be angry - furious, actually - at religions that hurt people. Do you know what the Catholic church did in Africa? And some twerp wants to pretend it’s “beautiful”. No, it’s not.

R19 That quote is stupid. Lots of people find lots of answer to things all the time…the products of science that we all enjoy proves that. What is foolish is belief without evidence. And I’m not sure what point you’re making about abortion…you’ve made a decision about yourself but let others make up their own minds? And this is different to other women how?

Personally, I would be mortified to be associated with an organisation that had caused such overwhelming harm to so many people. But, oh well, they use incense and speak Latin, so it’s all lovely. Never mind the orphaned children, eh?

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by Anonymousreply 22January 13, 2023 4:49 PM

^BTW….Stephen Fry and Christopher Hitchens spoke against the proposition in the above debate. They won, resoundingly.

by Anonymousreply 23January 13, 2023 4:51 PM

R17 - It all boils down to the homophobia generally found in religion.

I find these comments amusing, as these people consider themselves some kind of 'genius' because of hating religion. Typically art of that is them saying 'the such-and-such religion believes X' when, no they don't, and never have. Whose ass did they pull that out of?

You can't be a genius and believe a bunch of horseshit. This applies to both groups of people, folks.

So, ok, you hate religion, but you are nothing even remotely approaching smart for all the shit you say. There's no shortage of bad things to be found in religion, there's no need to make up a bunch of stuff.

by Anonymousreply 24January 13, 2023 4:56 PM

the anger is to the men that run the church, not the religion.

by Anonymousreply 25January 13, 2023 4:56 PM

How do you separate the two, R25?

by Anonymousreply 26January 13, 2023 5:04 PM

It's common among people who have gone through real struggles in life, especially substance abusers. When they have nowhere left to turn, the church assists them with food or shelter or healthcare. They go to a few services out of obligation, then become seduced by the lifestyle the church offers. All their lives they've been trying to figure out what's wrong with them, why the world is so cruel, why a good person should have to live through intense suffering; then they're told life is actually simple as a two-piece jigsaw puzzle. God loves them, Satan tries to trip them up, but if they just follow these rules exactly God will always have their back and eventually reward them with eternal bliss. For some people, choosing to live in that world instead of the real one where there are no easy answers and good doesn't always triumph is extremely attractive. Hell, it even sounds good to me sometimes.

by Anonymousreply 27January 13, 2023 5:11 PM

We were brought up Episcopalian but my parents were not overly religious. My mother thought it was important to have us taught the basics of what was important to the history of western civilization. My parents mostly thought if it as a social thing back then. I was always skeptical in Bible study.

I'm now apathetic agnostic leaning towards towards atheist with the philosophy of "I don't know, you don't know and who gives a shit?" Live your life now, try to be kind and you'll be fine. I do loathe people who proselytize and show their fake piety to the world as well as their hypocrisy and say with certainty that God and baby Jesus exist and avoid anyone who proclaims their Christianity and asks "what church do you go to?". Don't get me started on the incessant and trite "thoughts and prayers" bullshit.

by Anonymousreply 28January 13, 2023 5:11 PM

On the secular side of my family, of late there have been some 70-somethings who have newly found religion. Personally, I think they are both beginning to face their mortality and fear for their 'soul'. They also seem to be trying to find a community accepting of older individuals.

I was raised by the religious, Southern Baptist side of the family but never believed any of it even as a small child. I learned very quickly to keep my mouth shut about it because any of questioning of faith was rejected. There is a term in church circles: '8-year-old atheist'.

Sometimes used condescendingly to belittle a kid's questioning due to their age, But, really, it reflects that by a certain age most children have developed critical thinking skills that surpass the 'logic' of religious belief. That's why religions pressure kids and parents to get baptized, confirmed, etc. at this age. It's brainwashing.

All that to say, be glad your parents didn't load you down with stuff, R3. A religious upbringing is just gaining knowledge of a religion, it's also enduring brainwashing, guilt, and manipulation in ways that follow you your entire life EVEN IF you didn't buy into any of it to begin with. It's a mind fuck that is hard to describe to those who did not have that experience.

by Anonymousreply 29January 13, 2023 5:11 PM

The thing is that belief doesn’t change reality. Maybe believing in this or that helps you get through life and makes you feel all warm and tingly like Blanche Devereaux in a sleazy bar but it doesn’t change reality. That grown adults don’t realize this is ludicrous to say the least.

by Anonymousreply 30January 13, 2023 5:21 PM

My favorite are the wealthy Christian Capitalists who go to church for economic networking, then are drinking, drugging, and fucking whores the rest of the week.

by Anonymousreply 31January 13, 2023 5:25 PM

R7 I’m educated. I consider myself religious. My religion allows abortion and some of us believe in an afterlife, some are unsure and some don’t. We focus on the here and now and try to make the world a better place.

I think that often, when people judge “religion,” the religion is Christianity due to its prevalence.

by Anonymousreply 32January 13, 2023 5:28 PM

I was raised without religion. And with that kind of childhood, it's hard for me to see the difference between a church and a cult. It all seems to require a literal belief in impossible narratives. So, when you aren't raised in it, it seems pretty ridiculous. "I've live a thousand lives!" Or "Sky Father came down and impregnated a virgin!" It sounds similar to things my schizophrenic clients would say when they are delusional.

I am in the conservative Midwest, so I keep my thoughts to myself. People get very uncomfortable if I say I am an athiest, like I am challenging them. I'm not, I could give two shits what other people believe.

by Anonymousreply 33January 13, 2023 5:31 PM

It happens all the time - religions prey on addicts, transients, convicts, etc. People who are lost in life or who utterly failed get immediate access to a caring and supportive community, forgiveness from the highest authority possible for all they have done, what's not to like?

by Anonymousreply 34January 13, 2023 5:39 PM

r26 I am not quite sure but I am able to. I remember I asked a priest once what the point of Eucharistic adoration, where Jesus is supposed to be present, if we were supposed to believe that Jesus was always around us. He said oh, that's only for the old people that believe it. I walked away shaking my head and saying to myself no, that is not that answer. 3 months later I distinctly remember (this was about 30 years ago) I was washing dishes looking out the window day daydreaming and I "heard" the purpose of Eucharistic adoration is to bring people together as one because of the power of people being united. I had forgotten that I had even asked that question months before. So maybe being able to separate the two comes to me like that.

r29 yes, I have witnessed some of the damage and why I said I could never decide if it was good or bad. I didn't have a fun childhood and would have liked to have known there was something I could have held onto. I guess the answer is either way it has it's positives and negatives.

by Anonymousreply 35January 13, 2023 5:42 PM

[quote]I remember I asked a priest once what the point of Eucharistic adoration, where Jesus is supposed to be present, if we were supposed to believe that Jesus was always around us. He said oh, that's only for the old people that believe it.

How could a priest say this? It's one of the basic beliefs of the Catholic religion. That's crazy.

by Anonymousreply 36January 13, 2023 6:03 PM

My mom was a lapsed Catholic and my dad was a non-practicing Druid (even listed on his dog tags). They did enroll us in summer Bible school once, and we occasionally went to church when visiting family.

My dad especially encouraged us to read, learn, and decide for ourselves what we thought we should believe about religion.

After many years of investigation, I prefer the Wiccan philosophy and practices. Definitely not Christian, which really seemed to disturb some of my neighbors who invited me to their church when I moved here. It's not an open topic for discussion, like politics.

by Anonymousreply 37January 13, 2023 6:14 PM

r36 ironically he left the priesthood about a year later. So maybe he didn't understand what he was supposed to know or maybe just didn't care.

by Anonymousreply 38January 13, 2023 6:21 PM

I used to know a nice young Jewish couple. When they dated and first married they were non-practicing except for holidays meaning non-kosher afaik. After they had their baby he became more and more orthodox which freaked her out and she hated the whole segregation thing and she said he was not fun anymore and wanted her to dress very conservatively. I wouldn't be surprised if they were not divorced.

by Anonymousreply 39January 13, 2023 7:37 PM

I knew a gay guy who worked for the Catholic Church and was one of the biggest whores I’ve ever met in my life. He knew where every bathhouse was in every city in the world. Suddenly on a whim he decided to become a priest and went to seminary. Yeah that didn’t last long.

by Anonymousreply 40January 13, 2023 7:52 PM

[quote] religions prey on addicts, transients, convicts, etc. People who are lost in life or who utterly failed

Well then, religions ought to thrive here at the DL.

by Anonymousreply 41January 13, 2023 8:49 PM

Interesting most of this is about Christianity. I can appreciate some of the mystical, metaphysical and philosophical aspects of Abrahamic faiths and they did produce beautiful art, architecture and music. But a lot of their core teachings I can't get behind.

Many people who aren't raised particularly religious seem drawn more to Buddhism, Hinduism, New Age beliefs, Gnostic stuff like Kabbalah and Hermeticism, astrology and various spiritual and magical practices. Most people associate religion with Abrahamic religions because they are dominant in most of the world.

by Anonymousreply 42January 13, 2023 9:00 PM

[quote]R12: I said the men in the church continuously screw it up.

If you talk to people, you generally hear that it is the Church who screwed them up, not the other way around.

[quote]How could I possibly have been spiritual having learned no religion at home unless I brought it with me when I was born? If that is the case then it brings us into another realm of something existing other than us here on earth.

You talk as if you think that 'home' is some sort of vacuum, a closed universe into which no other influences can enter, and that you never left the house, ever. Even raised in non-religious households, we are still acculturated in Christianity, which is ubiquitous in Western society. That's where you picked it up.

[quote]R17 (same as R3, R12): why do those that don't believe seem so angry at those that do? If you don't believe that is your choice but insulting those that do does not help anyone.

Christians unconsciously speak from a sense of superiority. Take for instance your phrase, "does not help anyone." You're telling us that you think Christians help and atheists do not. It's quite insulting in and of itself. That, and whenever believers talk about their religion and the reasons they believe in it, their simplicity (as though no one ever had ever covered those bases and found them lacking) and intellectual dishonesty overflow. It's angering to others.

[quote]R25 (same poster): the anger is to the men that run the church, not the religion.

What evidence do you have for that assertion?

[quote]R20: What proof have you to offer in support of this statement? (with reference to R16's statement about spirits and spirituality)

One cannot demonstrate a negative (such as "there’s no such thing as spirits - or god/s"), nor does one have to. The burden of proof lies upon the one making the positive assertion, i.e. that God exists.

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by Anonymousreply 43January 13, 2023 10:11 PM

I got sick of pretending and lost most of my family (just told one - and of course she spread it to every one else that I had said I was an atheist). I also made the mistake with a friend (from Iowa) - I'm in the Deep South and she had been bragging about how much more advanced the Midwest was, and I just retorted then why are they so damned religion and racist and Trumpists (she hates Trump).... well anyway, now she and her family (and all our mutual acquaintances) hate me. Avoid me like the plague.

Well, good riddance I guess, but if you're an atheist, don't move to Mississippi. Or Alabama. Well, the whole South. And after my Iowa friend turned on me, the Midwest.... What a ridiculous country. There's never a compassionate response, like, oh no, I'm so worried about you - please let me explain why you need Jesus in your life yada yada. Just a bunch of passive aggressive and even outright cruelty to get "revenge" for my saying what I didn't believe.

But I'm 67. One reason I tripped up was that I told lots of people in college in the 1970s and nobody gave a damn. Maybe it's because I hung around with the hippies. So I was shocked at how vicious these older people are. Well you know what I mean -- even in Mississippi in the 1970s, it was ok. Did times change to become more religious? or was it just the people I hung out with? or because they were young? I'll never figure this shit out.

by Anonymousreply 44January 13, 2023 10:28 PM

* why are they so damned RELIGIOUS

by Anonymousreply 45January 13, 2023 10:30 PM

That's my issue with Christianity and Islam R44. At the end of the day they preach those who believe are superior than those who do not and worthy of heaven. It doesn't matter if you're an atheist who gives more charity and shows compassion for all. If you don't believe in the one true God and follow the religious doctrines, they are less than and doomed to eternal hellfire. And followers must do everything to convert others as per their religious rules. It creates an "us vs them" mentality and we've seen that under Abrahamic religions, we had gone through so many wars over religious practices. And so many sects we created based on different interpretations of the text but often not without blood on their hands.

by Anonymousreply 46January 13, 2023 11:59 PM

No wonder Sam Harris has to have extra security in his home and probably when he travels. I admire him so much. And I remember when Richard Dawkins did a tour of the American South, lecturing on atheism - he even went to Jerry Falwell's Liberty University in 2006 to speak and take questions from the students in the audience!

by Anonymousreply 47January 14, 2023 12:10 AM

Perhaps I’d count to OP. My parents hated the Catholic Church, which is how they had been and did not provide any religious instruction other than “bad Karma man, don’t hit your brother.” And I wound up a devout Lutheran. But I always wanted to worship, I just didn’t have the opportunity until I was older.

by Anonymousreply 48January 14, 2023 12:12 AM

R46 exactly. That's just ways to control and manipulate people.

by Anonymousreply 49January 14, 2023 1:18 AM

It's sad how much art, literature, historical documents, architecture and culture were destroyed by Christian armies in Europe. Christian emperors sent out soldiers with intent to slaughter pagan tribes who refused to convert. And Europeans also destroyed a lot of pagan culture in The Americas, Africa and Asia. We don't know as much about the Aztec or Maya because a lot of the codices were burned by the Catholic Church which dubbed it "witchcraft." Muslims did the same in North Africa, the Middle East and Afghanistan and Pakistan where they destroyed the culture of "kafirs" and Islam is an Arab supremacist faith, so Arabic was forced on the regions they conquered. A lot of Mesopotamian and Babylonian art is still being destroyed by ISIS.

by Anonymousreply 50January 14, 2023 1:37 AM

R49 It was very effective in building empires by unifying large groups of people as "chosen ones" and brainwashing them to attack others who were "infidels." The men in power could leverage this to get the masses to support wars against other regions on the basis of religion or heresy which for the elite in power would gain them more territory and resources. Making the rich richer. The idea that only one God is true and the others "false" and also the fact God in Christianity and Islam is said to be a personal one who loves you dearly and wants whats best, would make the diehard followers believe they are helping others by invading and forcibly converting them. Jews only believed their God was for them and only them, so didn't have any interest in mass conversions (some sects did proselytize though in the Mediterranean coast, supposedly were the type of sects with all the Messiah claimants aka Jesus).

by Anonymousreply 51January 14, 2023 1:47 AM

Great post r51

by Anonymousreply 52January 15, 2023 8:10 AM

I've known people who have had near death experiences which frightened them into joining some religion. I've also known people who were atheists their whole lives suddenly find God when they become elderly because they fear death is coming closer. I personally deep down in the psyche of a religious fanatic is a fear of death. Sure its nice to believe that there's pearly gates and bright lights waiting for us after death but of course no one really knows for sure. Most intellectual people don't fall into that trap especially if they are really into science and technology.

by Anonymousreply 53January 15, 2023 8:19 AM

A lot of alcoholics and druggies do. It helps them with recovery.

by Anonymousreply 54January 15, 2023 8:40 AM

Men created religion to control people, especially women. Kinda like politics.

I was raised Catholic and was very religious when young but it was all because I was afraid to not be. It’s funny that someone mentioned Jesus Christ Superstar because that really opened my eyes for the first time as to how contrived Christianity was.

I mean really…it makes no sense whatsoever.

by Anonymousreply 55January 15, 2023 9:14 AM

[quote] otherwise, adopt a retarded brown baby or shut the fuck up.

You didn't need to add this part R7 so crass and unnecessary. You were making really good points but then you debased your whole post. No need to describe anyone that way, the word retarded is a 5th graders insult. Be smarter than a 5th grader.

by Anonymousreply 56January 15, 2023 10:29 AM

Are Baptists really into "works" because down here they are mean-spirited and say all you have to do is accept the lord Jesus and you are saved and can go back to being an absolute judgmental, selfish asshole.

by Anonymousreply 57January 15, 2023 5:02 PM

R57 It's irritating. Baptists and their derivatives like Pentecostals and non-denominationals are all about image and judging others for everyone on superficial stuff. They pretend they are so perfect and incorruptible just because they accepted Jesus as their savior. They think being baptized makes all their past sins go away. Yet they sin the most and have a superiority complex.

At least Catholics and Episcopalians admit all humans are sinful innately and you have to earn your salvation. Hence why Catholics believe in confession and repentance. Methodists and Lutherans also emphasize good deeds. Having higher education is really stressed in mainline Protestantism for clergy which is a good vetting process. Overall, Baptists and Evangelicals just think being saved warrants their arrogant and ignorant attitudes.

by Anonymousreply 58January 15, 2023 5:14 PM

Lutherans engage in a lot of good deeds per capita, but believe that salvation is by grace alone, through faith alone in Christ alone, where all three alones are provided and not under our control. Lutherans also believe that all people are born saved and are inherently imperfect so no person is superior to another. The idea that a person has to earn salvation (Catholic) or demonstrate salvation compared to others (some Protestants) ironically leads to a lot of nastiness and sin.

by Anonymousreply 59January 15, 2023 5:36 PM

My best friend was raised with no religious affiliation. He was an artist that was fun, funny, and just a great guy. Then, at about 22 he became a Jehovah's Witness. I proceeded to move away and head off into the world, leaving my friend behind. Skip to today, many years later. This person remains one of my best friends but I refuse to discuss religion with him. Being nice, I even went as far as to attend some JW meetings with him, all the while realizing that nothing would ever change my mind about religion. For me, I believe religion and the worship of any type of idol or god(s) are not only absurd, but it is also a form of control. I still love my friend, but due to his beliefs, I find him to be ignorant and sadly, stupid for lack of a better description. I understand why he turned to religion. He had an uncaring father, a dead mother, no luck with love, and was caught in a web of drugs and a partying lifestyle. I don't believe he'd have made it to 25 or 30 had he not changed his ways. For him, the JW community was a lifeline. I'm happy that he is happy. He's no longer drinking, selling drugs, or doing coke. Religion saved his life. Sometimes I wish he would shut the hell up but I still love him.

by Anonymousreply 60January 16, 2023 9:38 AM

Because they have small minds r17 and are not intelligent thinkers.

by Anonymousreply 61January 16, 2023 11:00 AM

I had a friend/co-worker who was an outspoken atheist. He grew up in difficult circumstances (poverty and abuse) and was very bright. The company sent him to Morocco to give training to staff there. He was blown away by the welcoming nature and hospitality he encountered in North Africa. He converted to Islam.

by Anonymousreply 62March 24, 2023 1:42 PM

You know I’m way more religious than my parents. Selfish cunts. I didn’t grow up overtly religious, grew up in Catholic school, grandparents were fairly religious but parents were always way more cynical about religion. I’m not and more spiritual and Christian than they are.

by Anonymousreply 63March 24, 2023 1:58 PM

R50/R51 heathen kissies for you!!!!

by Anonymousreply 64March 24, 2023 2:17 PM

[quote] Men created ABRAHAMIC MONOTHEISTIC SYNCRETIST religion to control people, especially women. Kinda like politics.


by Anonymousreply 65March 24, 2023 2:18 PM

Yes. And the other way around too.

by Anonymousreply 66March 24, 2023 2:22 PM

like the uber driver in this video

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by Anonymousreply 67March 24, 2023 2:25 PM

White Brit nationally-ranked footballer Luke Shaw converted to !slam years ago.

I had no idea, and only just found out today. Came as quite a shock. He’s not from a mooselamb family background at all. The majority of Western/Euro footballers couldn’t be further from the ideal model of a pious man...

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by Anonymousreply 68March 24, 2023 2:31 PM

[R36] ironically he left the priesthood about a year later. So maybe he didn't understand what he was supposed to know or maybe just didn't care.

That isn't ironic, r38. He simply came to his senses.

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by Anonymousreply 69March 24, 2023 2:35 PM

William J Murray III, Madalyn Murray O’hair’s son, became a born-again Christian in 1980 and later a Baptist minister.

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by Anonymousreply 70March 24, 2023 2:49 PM

My mother was religiously insane. Her entire identity was “catholic.” Her family was from Northern Ireland where religion defines your life (and death). She was a strident, adamant catholic who was clearly superior to all others, including other Catholics.

My father’s sister and family lived next door. They did not regularly attend church, except Easter Sunday & Christmas Eve. My mother hated them. Across the street was a family my mother knew from childhood. The wife was catholic, the husband was not.

“I remember when he was missing in action in WW2,” my mother said. “She ran to the church and begged god to spare his life. She promised she’d never miss mass again. She promised they’d get married in the Catholic Church. What happened? He came home and they immediately got married in a Protestant church. Hmph! Lying bitch. That’s how she repaid god for answering her prayers.”

My mother wouldn’t even go out in her front yard to water flowers I planted for her “because that bitch will see me and coming running over to talk to me. I don’t want to talk to her!”

You can see how lovingly my mother behaved in her religiosity. She wouldn’t send me to college because Marxist Jewish professors would turn me into an atheist. I was already an atheist. Years of mandatory fasting, church going, stations of the fucking cross, holy days of obligation.

No breakfast on Sunday! You have to get communion!

You have to go out in the rain to get to confession!

It’s First Friday of month! You can’t have breakfast because your class will be going to church and you’ll need to get communion!

No meat on Fridays!

“No breakfast! It’s a Holy Day of Obligation!” Other people got to sleep in on holidays. But I had to go to 7am mass the day after Halloween and on New Year’s Day. The church ruined everything about life. It stamped out happiness, it shit on relaxation, it sucked money out of families.

We have to go to Salvation Army to buy you a pair of used shoes for 25¢!

“Why do I have to wear used shoes with thin soles? You give money to the church collection plate twice during mass and sometimes there’s a third collection and you give them a check! Why can’t we use some of that money for new shoes?” (Full on slap to the face for that).

The last time I was in a church was for her damned funeral.

Oh and she never visited anyone’s grave because it was pointless. Once she made sure a relative heard when she smugly laughed to her sister. “Oh John tells me he visits our sister’s grave once a week and he talks to her, brings her flowers and tidies her grave. Hmph! Of course I didn’t say to him ‘You’re wasting your goddamned time. She’s not there. Nobody’s there, just an empty shell. Your spirit leaves your body. And of course, she probably didn’t go to heaven because she’s not buried in consecrated ground.” Her sister had married a Protestant and converted. She was buried in a non denominational cemetery.

So that’s my experience with religion. It was a bludgeon to control, punish and feel superior to others because “mine is the right religion.”

by Anonymousreply 71March 24, 2023 2:59 PM

That horrible. It's mostly just old people in Ireland who are still religious. I'm so happy for them. Will this ridiculous country ever give this iron age shit up?

Anyway - Cat Stevens. How in the hell did he go from Greek Orthodox to extreme Islam (didn't he concur with Salmon Rushdie's fatwa?) And I used to like his music. What a jerk.

by Anonymousreply 72March 24, 2023 4:35 PM

R72 it’s so bizarre that the open-minded immigrant street musician, counterculture radical guru & later lascivious popstar who wrote ‘Peace Train’, sang rather wry and scandalous material like ‘Mona Bone Jakon’ & ‘C79’, soundtracked HAROLD & MAUDE, and even covered ‘Morning Has Broken’ is now a fundamentalist mooselamb.

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by Anonymousreply 73March 25, 2023 12:15 PM
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