Frank Lloyd Wright

Watch and learn

Clearly they are, OP, or we wouldn't be talking about them all these years later.

What I will concede is that most of his homes are better as ideas, but aren't always practical. Fallingwater is inventive but honestly, I'm not sure I'd want to live there.

OP, he really tried to impose his will onto the sites where he built. They're almost all designs that require ongoing maintenance to sustain their spatial relationships to the outdoors as making the architecture 'a part if the landscape ' worked in a studio, unfortunately they all are abused by virtue of their design intentions, but he succeeded in creating some amazing examples of living with the landscape (even if only temporarily).

His staggering ego is also, to me, about as impressive as some of his best work.

Excuse me...ex-c-u-u-s-e me...

[quote]His staggering ego

You ain't kidding. Wright designed all the way down to the light socket panel. The furnishings he designed for his structures were strictly placed and he gave instructions that they should never be moved. If an owner moved a chair and Wright was a visitor, he would have it moved back into it's original location.

[quote]The furnishings he designed for his structures were strictly placed and he gave instructions that they should never be moved.

Or comfortably sat in.

I was a frequent visitor to Unity Temple and it is truly beautiful. The pews are comfortable. But it was an early example of his work, and not a home.

...when there's no one there.

[quote] Clearly they are, OP, or we wouldn't be talking about them all these years later.

Partly because he was an egomaniac and obsessive self-publicist who nurtured similar people such as the Guggenheims.

'Fallingwater' can only be appreciated if you're lying down with your face in the wet gully below it.

Wright's chairs are as uncomfortable as Corbusier's and Breuer's.

If he was alive today the idiot half of Datalounge would be complaining about his trumpery.

He didn't like democracy.

Where is the eldergay retrieving that picture of Claudette Colbert under that leaking FLW roof?

Psst—I have a piece of Taliesin.

R14 Do tell!

BTW His latter stuff (such as the Marin Town Hall) is just like a tacky Sputnik movie.

The answer is simple. People on whole have a very limited knowledge of the arts and humanities. FLW is the famous one for Americans, and has the advantage of being a difficult personality and and his buildings having certain "faults" that make an average man feel superior to Wright -- because his roofs leak, his ceilings are low, he had a fuck-you attitude toward clients, his furniture is not comfortable to modern overstuffed standards... People like to feel superior toartists and writers and composers, etc.

How many painters can the average person with at least a bit of advanced education name?

How many sculptors?

How many classical composers?

How many famous foreign film directors?

How many significant dead writers from outside their country?

How many engineers who changed the world?

How many foreign museums?

How many architects?

My brother worked there. They were doing renovations. I have a piece of the original stucco bound with horsehair.

Sounds like it might smell bad r17.

This may help some participating (or who would like to participate) in this thread.

R17 is that plaster/cement with horsehair?

R16 You are so right.

60% of our population are sheep.

I think so, r20.

It's hard to see or 'read' his buildings because his ego keeps obscuring the view.

You don't own a FLW home, you are its caretaker. And you pay heaps to heat, cool, and reroof it.

Unless you've toured any of his houses or been to his schools it's hard to explain his genius. I was lucky enough to grow up in an area that has many of his designs. His designs were a welcome reprieve from the stuffy, overwrought Victorian homes of his youth. They were open, airy and innovative. The house I grew up in is just to the right of this one pictured. Frank Lloyd Wright spent a lot of his youth on Delavan Lake and there are at least a half dozen houses of his still here

He failed and the Arabs beat him.

Here's another Delavan Lake house he designed

R13 No Claudette, just big Richard Egan

I know some of his ideas and work were influences on midcentury modern homes/architecture.

He designed an entire college campus in of all places, Lakeland Florida, smack dab in the middle of Redneck Polk County. It includes a planetarium.

Overrated

The thing about most of Wright's houses is that they were built for looks, not for functionality or reliability. They go down fast if not meticulously maintained.

A massive and hideously expensive renovation/conservation had to be done on Falling Water not all that long ago because the place was falling apart. People were not even allowed to go out onto the terraces any long for fear they'd cave in.

Tasteful Friends FLW threads pop up surprisingly often. Some of the houses are stunning and surprisingly affordable.

Yes, R32. Claudette at R13 was complaining about that leaking roof. And this one in LA is falling apart.

R33 Fallingwater (one word) did undergo a renovation some years back. After years of the waterfall's flow some aspects of the framework had eroded. I know they did some unusual hydraulic thing to the terraces to reinforce them and keep them safe without adding other support underneath.

I’ve been to Taliesin and Taliesin West and I’ll say it’s cool to do both and then compare the two.

R35, that's the Ennis house in Los Feliz which has also gone through massive renovations not all that long ago to fix all that damage. Some may be interested to know that the Ennis house is where the Vincent Price movie "House On Haunted Hill" was filmed. Well, at least the outside shots.

That front wall desperately needs a pressure washing with a bleach additive.

'Fallingwater' looks invisible and nondescript when seen from above on Google Street View.

The house can only be photographed when there's a good flow of water passing down the drain below the house.

I toured the one in Springfield IL

R40 And did it change your life?

What a DUMP!

The following are just old saws about Wright, repeated and repeated and repeated again, and each guy who repeats them thinks he's passing along fresh insight. Whether true, partly true, or nonsense the fact that very few people can say anything about FLW that doesn't center on one of these observations speaks more to a lack of art literacy than to any truth about Wright.

You know the guy who works with a guy who told him about a guy who knows guy who had a distant cousin who had a FLW house? Yeah, that guy...well he told me that he heard that that Wright fellow...

[quote]'Fallingwater' can only be appreciated if you're lying down with your face in the wet gully below it. (Which explains 1000s of photographs from many scores of popular angles on a difficult site.)

[quote]Wright's chairs are as uncomfortable as Corbusier's and Breuer's. (Or as comfortable, designed from about 1890, is so comfortable as Bauhaus designs from 40 years later -- it's a matter or perspective, sectional sofas not being a big thing in the 1890s.)

[quote]It's hard to see or 'read' his buildings because his ego keeps obscuring the view. (Architects have large egos, and what we know of famous architects through time indicates that this is anything but a problem born in Wisconsin in 1867)

[quote]You don't own a FLW home, you are its caretaker. And you pay heaps to heat, cool, and reroof it. (Most of FLW's houses have low sloped or flat roofs - notoriously difficult to maintain even in the short term, never mind that many of his houses are 75+ or 100+ years old. Any innovative design runs risk of testing technology or the advice of engineers and contractors; FLW is hardly alone in this, he's just more famous.)

[quote]The thing about most of Wright's houses is that they were built for looks, not for functionality or reliability. (Do you think criticism is unique to Wright? That Wright is even a particularly good/bad example?)

Because it was new, different, unusual OP...

[quote] You know the guy who works with a guy who told him about a guy who knows guy

Do you know where you are?

This is Datalounge, the receptacle for ancient, third-hand gossip.

OP, I apologize for not reading the posts but I agree with you completely. We have plenty of examples here in Wisconsin and they all need constant upkeep. Of course, his flat roofs are danger zones in the midwest - even with that, I've never seen an attractive design. FLW is a perfect example of the Cult of Personality.

I love-hate him. Some of his work actually nauseates me. Some is delightful.

FLW’s synagogue Beth Shalom in Elkins Park looks like one of those hats kids make from newspapers.

R48 Yes, I think he was retreating into a child-like weird simple geometric shapes as he entered his senility.

And this other late work looks like a toilet pedestal.

[quote]And this one in LA is falling apart.

You might want to get some more current information there, chief. That is the Ennis House whose last owner, billionaire Ron Burkle, spent $17 million restoring it years ago.

In 2015, I was fortunate enough to go on a tour of it, conducted by the American Institue of Architects. The restoration was nearly done, and the house was stunning. Pictures don't do it justice. You really need to be interacting with the space for its full effect.

Sadly, once the restoration was done, the house was sold to a private party who closed it to any further tours.

I like to think of him as FRANK LLOYD WRONG.

FLW is another example of Who You Know rather than talent.

Yes, his work is SSSOOOOOO terrible. That's why Unity Temple was named a UNESCO site.

^ Is that made of mud or concrete or some weird FLW concoction?

So it's another "OFFICIAL TROLL" thread obviously using the familiar formula of "say something stupid about something obvious and wait for the fish to head for the bait."

Pathetic. Is activity that bad?

Don’t flat roofs tend to leak easily?

[quote]What was Frank Lloyd Wright's Net Worth? Frank Lloyd Wright was an American architect, interior designer, educator, and writer who had a net worth of $3 million at the time of his death in 1959. After adjusting for inflation, that's the same as $25 million in today's dollars.

He a bitch!

Wingspread is magnificent. It’s 90 years old and still seems almost shockingly modern.

^

you can see the cracking concrete in the tower stairs

BEAUTIFUL!

An erstwhile colleague of FLW was Walter Burley Griffin, who had an enormous impact on Australia. He designed the capital city, Canberra, which has a crazy, circular street system, similar to DC I say, but I don't know if that was the intention. Sadly, there are no WBG buildings in Canberra, but the man-made lake is named after him. He quit the project due to bureaucratic interference, a hint of what was to come decades later with Jørn Utzon and the Sydney Opera House.

I wish photos exist of what a FLW home looks like with people actually living in it, not cleaned up and polished for show.

You know, with coffee cups on the tables, newspapers on the floor, the daily mail on the counter, the kitchen garbage can overflowing, clothes on the floor in the bedrooms, bathroom counters filled with bottles, tubes, containers, etc.

R64, not sure what you expect to find exactly. Do coffee cups look different on a Wright table, in a Wright house? I've been in a dozen or so privately owned Wright houses, with people actually living in them and can tell you that their coffee cups look like --surprise-- just like coffee cups.

The privately owned and lived in Wright houses look like my house more or less, as you would say "everything cleaned up and polished for show." I don't spend enough time cleaning, maybe, but I'm tidy as fuck, a lot of "house proud" people have similar habits. Sure, you could find an hour or two in any day when the bed hasn't been made or the underwear and socks put in the laundry, or a bag of garbage is sitting in the entry hall awaiting a trip to the street, but it's very tidy 95% of the time.

I don't understand why you might think that a Wright house is more prone to some scandalous secret life: littered with greasy sex toys and wadded up underwear, floors strewn with newspapers and carry-out food wrappers, cat litter box overflowing, bathroom sinks a riot of tubes of toothpaste and unguents and pore cleansers, and a Costco pallet of toilet paper in the corner, the plastic wrap torn open... Not everyone lives like that and Wright houses don't seem to have any special attraction to people who do.

Here's an FLW house that was a family home for decades and has its share of clutter, in the kitchen and dining room especially. There's a lot of stuff, and the China is not FLW designs for the Imperial Hotel, but it shows a Wright house with non-Wright things and some clutter.

Some of his stuff is brilliant (prairie style houses, Falling Water, Guggenheim) some is so so (LA Mayan concrete temples).

Visiting in Falling Water was like standing in line to ride the Log Flume at Six Flags Great Adventure: dark, lots of concrete, a nasty mildew smell, and getting dripped on by "falling water." No thanks.

Which time of the year did you go, R67?

R68, it was in July, I believe.

I experienced none of those things during my visit to Fallingwater.

R67 is truly déclassé and probably craves the smell of an antiseptic Walmart.

And also

FALLINGWATER IS

ONE

FUCKING

WORD

Are there lines at Falling Water or do you have time to wander and explore? Thinking about driving there but it’s a 6 h slog across PA.

R71 has stated THEIR BOUNDARIES.

Whatever you say, r70. The next year we visited Kentuck Knob and I was equally unimpressed. The guide told us the kitchen was actually supposed to be smaller? What a huckster Frank Lloyd Wright was, trying to convince people low ceilings, closet-sizes rooms, and zero light (natural or otherwise), was some kind of architectural masterpiece.

I don’t see what the big deal is with clerestory windows and built in banquettes.

[quote]What a huckster Frank Lloyd Wright was, trying to convince people low ceilings,

Yeah. Very little is posted on this thread about how uncomfortable many of his structures are. If you're over 6 feet tall you're going to have a lot of trouble avoiding bumping your head in many of his houses.

R74, R76

Two unsourced quotes:

“I took the human being, at five feet eight and one-half inches tall, like myself, as the human scale. If I had been taller, the scale might have been different.”

“Whenever I walk into one of your buildings, the doorways are so low my hat gets knocked off.’ Wright calmly replied, ‘Take off your hat when you come into a house.”

He must have been one of the earliest domestic architects to integrate the house with the garden.

Large glass doors, verandahs on four sides, enormous planters.

I wonder if Datalounge's fan of John Wellborn Root has commented yet?

John Wellborn Root was the toast of Chicago until Frank Lloyd Wright came along.

I can't believe I said that about the Guggenheim. My stupid rollerskating joke.

He needed some advice from someone who actually worked in a kitchen on how to design one.

[quote] I don't understand why you might think that a Wright house is more prone to some scandalous secret life:

This egotistical short man radiated arrogance which created a seething envy and a bloody vengeance.

[quote]Fallingwater is inventive but honestly, I'm not sure I'd want to live there.

Well good, because you're not meant to. It was commissioned and used as a holiday house, which is why it's stuck in the middle of the woods miles and miles from Pittsburgh.

As for needing renovation, it was built in 1937, on an incredibly difficult and isolated site, largely from stone and glass, and has water vapour hitting it 24/7, so it would be deeply surprising if it didn't need regular restoration. But it is a masterpiece of a place, pioneering all kinds of concepts including glass-to-glass corner windows, some brilliant innovations to create cross-flow of air, stepless indoor-outdoor spaces for all living and bedroom areas, a pool on Level 3 and a separate guest house connected to the main house by a walkway which is not only rainproof, but with a sloping roof so that when it does rain the water forms a curtain of water all down one side.

The reason you can hardly see it from above is that Wright's philosophy was that his buildings should conform with and blend into the landscape, and Fallingwater is probably his #1 success in this regard. The back wall of the main part of the house IS the cliff face. But there are many angles apart from the classic one in which you can get great photos of the house. You just can't get the waterfall in them, because of course it is cantilevered OVER the waterfall so you look down on it, meaning you can't see the house when you see the falls from within it.

I've been inside it in April -- a special tour that took us into every room, including those used as Parks Service offices -- and it wasn't even slightly musty. As I said before, the design allows for brilliant airflow, and as it's in the woods and right above a waterfall the air should be ozone-tinged and fresh even at the height of summer.

I envy, R83, for being able to visit Fallingwater.

Did you see the two rooms intended for the maids?

Did you feel cramped? Are you of normal height?

I've always found the Snowden house in LA to be beautiful in a creepy way.

I always enjoyed this description of the Ennis House/House on Haunted Hill.

A Mayan Temple by way of the Reich Chancellery

[quote] Fallingwater is inventive but honestly, I'm not sure I'd want to live there.

Can you imagine the summer humidity. But my god it looks good.

Overpraised.

That was never going to be built R26. It was beyond ridiculous (and remains so) and he knew it. A clear example of his endless self promotion of ego.

That’s absolutely hideous R49.

Ennis House exterior location (and the interior for inspiration) was used heavily in the latest seasons of HBO’s Westworld.

R77, pathetic. So a Napoleon complex as well. Let’s make sure everyone physically above me suffers. He quite literally made that a specific design decision and talked about it. Typical overpraised old straight white male that should be largely forgotten by now.

R72, there are guided tours only. You reserve ahead of time, so no lines. You can wander the grounds, such as they are, at will, but Fallingwater is deep in the woods, so there’s really not much to wander around in. The Laurel Highlands are beautiful, by the way, so the last part of that endless - yes, it's far from everything - drive is lovely. I don't remember how long the tour is - maybe 90 minutes? It isn't a very big house. Fascinating, though, to see the original that was later copied in so many mid-century buildings.

r65's comment is fascinating to me. r64 idly wonders what a lived-in FLW house looks like, and r65 starts screaming "I don't have greasy sex toys and wadded up underwear on the floor, if that's what you're asking!"

R84, pretty sure we saw all the rooms, because we were on a guided tour focussing on architecture in several US cities, and our tour company had arranged an extra-long, early tour for us so we even saw the rooms that are now functioning as Parks Department offices. (Fallingwater belongs to the local Parks Service, not to the FLW Foundation or whatever it's called, which I understand is very galling to the latter because the house is arguably the jewel in the FLW crown. Anyway, the Parks guys and gals are doing a great job with it.) I couldn't tell you which rooms were meant to be for the maids, but possibly the offices, because they are near the garage, which is at the top of the property.

I am 5ft 8 and it didn't feel at all low-ceilinged anywhere except maybe the basement (yep, we even went there). Lloyd Wright also deliberately designed slightly claustrophobic and hard-to-find entranceways, to enhance the drama when they open out to big, light, rooms. I didn't feel cramped in any other way, although there were about a dozen people on our tour and we all had to be in the same room as the Parks guide at all times. The bedrooms are small but there is a lot of window, and each bedroom gives onto a huge stone terrace. The open-plan living/dining/study and fireplace is a big room with many different seating areas. (Including horizontal sliding glass that allows you to walk from the living-room straight down an external staircase and sit with your feet dangling in the river.) The floors are all slightly polished stone, as befits a summer holiday house. And of course you can take lengthy walks through the surrounding woodlands. The walk from where the coaches stop to the house takes about 10 minutes through quiet countryside.

It is true that FLW designed all the furniture and even the ash trays. The living-room furniture is in colors you would normally associate with the 60s and 70s: very bright and very modern lines. Hard to imagine it is a pre-War house.

Marilyn Monroe and then husband Arthur Miller had Wright draw up plans for a home in 1957. It was eventually built in Hawaii.

I’ve toured a number of FLW buildings, including several homes. None of them, with the possible exception of Falling Water, seemed like the comfortable kind of place where I’d enjoy living. Some had hallways so narrow to pass through, I couldn’t see how furniture could be navigated through them.

But what struck me most about all of them was that doorways he designed were generally only about 6 ft. high, meaning anyone, mostly men, had to duck, or risk injury. The reason for this was that FLW, however grandiose his personality, was only 5 ft. 7 in. tall, and resented anyone taller. Especially men.

Mean little cuss, wasn’t he?

[quote] Mean little cuss

And so wrong that this arrogant dwarf be portrayed by a handsome six-foot man.

I enjoyed my trip to Fallingwater. That being said it was mid-summer and it was not especially comfortable weather (very humid) so you might want to consider going at a more temperate time of year.

I would like to go back and visit Kentuck Knob.

I love being at Ohiopyle, nearby. I do wish there was some sort of nice cafe or restaurant in the area....it's in an otherwise economically depressed area and no one has opened something like that, which would make a killing in the summer.

The Laurel Highlands are beautiful. Even towards Johnstown.

Flat roofs are bad news for any place where there's snow.

He was known for his Arts & Kitsch style....oh, I mean Arts & Craft style.

I harbor a bit of dislike for FLW, not for his architecture, which with a few exceptions I find more interesting than beautiful, but for the fact that he is the only architect's name known by people such as R100 and others who trot out the same old corny jokes every fucking time.

Frank Lloyd White 🙄

You sound very intelligent, R101, as your views align with mine.

Are you, by chance, the John Wellborn Root fan I mentioned in R79?

Thanks, R103. I am not the John Wellborn Riot fan, whom I recall as popping up now and again. Root's Monadnock and Rookeries buildings are wonderful, but if I had to pick favorites from Chicago, I'd go with Louis Sullivan and David Adler.

Wright is interesting but he was the first architect I learned about (like most Americans), and an influence in how to look at buildings and design. But that was as a young child and, unfairly or not, my interests outgrew him early. I do like some of his work and try to see what I can, and appreciate his significance, I rarely love his buildings or his cult.

He's no Mies van der Rohe.

Yes, r101, you caught me!

I've never made any remark in my life about Frank Lloyd Wright, but I do notice he is slavishly praised, but you're so wordly my meager knowledge must be a certain irritant!

I know lots of other architects, but I shan't enrage you further!

[quote] Mies van der Rohe.

I maintain there's a link between early Wright and early van der Rohe.

Back in R78 I said that his 1909 'Robie House' had dynamic horizontal rooms with large glass doors opening out on four sides.

Mies van der Rohe's 'Barcelona Pavilion' of 1929 explodes those rooms even further and the walls seem to disappear.

FYI

R98, I agree, the area is gorgeous and unspoiled. People hear Pennsylvania and think coal mines and steel mills, but the Laurel Highlands are forested and beautiful all year round.

Unfortunately, it's too far from everywhere but Pittsburgh (1h15m) to be a convenient weekend getaway. The next nearest big city is DC at 3.5 hours. Philly and New York are even further away.

You'd have to build a really nice, upscale resort with lots to offer to attract people for longer stays. How about White Lotus 4: Youghiogheny?

[quote] Louis Sullivan

R104 I found him rather attractive

R16 I'm sure there are people who don't know about those things, who know a lot about things you know nothing about.

[quote] who know a lot about things you know nothing about.

You're right. I know nothing about this so called Periodic Table which has 8 edges and I know nothing about volts and amps and why they are always in multiples of 2.

[quote]R16 I'm sure there are people who don't know about those things, who know a lot about things you know nothing about.

Of course, R111, but what's your point? My point was that the general level of Arts literacy or knowledge of Art History is very low, meaning it's the relatively informed who could name one famous architect, one famous writer, director, artist. It's no surprise that there are people who can only name one important figure in architecture or that that name will often be Wright's. Because of the Van Gogh's ear effect, Wright is a good candidate for results in s "name one famous architect" game

What's that to do with the fact that there are people who would fail my example test but understand everything about carburator maintenance, or dairy farm milking, or the difference between knitting and pearling, or how to fold a T-shirt for Abercrombie & Fitch, or international law regarding product brand recognition?

R113, I think "well-informed" people could name more than one famous director (assuming you mean film director) and more than one famous writer or painter. Those fields are better known than sculpture or architecture, where I do think all but the culturally well-educated would struggle to name more than one of each (probably Rodin and, yes, FLW).

Next Up from OP: Peter Paul Rubens - why the fuss over a bunch of fat chicks? I just don't get it!

You're being trolled. OP's provocative statement makes you pay attention to him.

[quote] Louis Sullivan

He is rather handsome at R10 but I couldn't understand why Lloyd Wright referred to him as 'Lieber-Meister'.

And also but I can't understand why he's referred to as the 'Father of Modernism' when his buildings are plastered with frilly lacework.

No, no, I think OP has a point.

An opportunity? It just went on the market

For fans of American architecture, perhaps the only thing more exciting than a Frank Lloyd Wright home hitting the market, is a listed Frank Lloyd Wright house receiving a price cut. As relatively rare commodities with only a set number in existence, the latter of these scenarios doesn’t happen often—in fact, Wright properties usually sell for over the asking price. However, today is a lucky day: One of the visionary’s earliest works was listed for sale in December, and its price has already been reduced twice.

According to the Chicago Tribune, the home was originally listed at $770,000 and later dropped to $629,900. Now, it’s going for $595,000. According to the local outlet, the increasingly lower price is a result of the run-down state of the home, and its future owner will need to be prepared to renovate much of the inside. “The inside needs work, but it has high ceilings, spacious rooms, and nice delivery from room to room,” the listing agent, Catherine Cannon, told the paper.

Located in Oak Park, Illinois, the two-story, shingle-style home, known as the George W. Smith House, is one of Wright’s earlier masterpieces, designed in 1895 and predating his Prairie-style properties. Featuring high-pitched, double-slope roofs and a shingled exterior, the unique property reflects Wright’s early experimentation and is notably different than later work that often emphasized horizontal space and made use of flat roofs. According to the Real Deal, the home has been in the same family for the past 60 years.

Built in 1898, the property wasn’t constructed until four years after Wright designed it. Originally conceived as a series of low-cost homes created for engineer and inventor Charles E. Roberts, an early patron of Wright’s work, the home’s ultimate owner and namesake, George W. Smith, was a salesman at Marshall Field & Company. Inside, the house features 10-foot ceilings on the first floor, three bedrooms, one and a half bathrooms, a sunroom, a wood staircase, and a fireplace.

Though Wright’s hand alone makes the home unique, for any devoted follower of the American architect, its location in Oak Park is certainly exciting as well. Containing the largest concentration of Prairie-style homes, the Chicago suburb, in many ways, acts as a living, walkable museum of many of Wright’s early residential projects (Wright even lived there for 20 years). Though the inside will require work, thanks to the property’s location within the Frank Lloyd Wright-Prairie School of Architecture Historic District, its exterior is protected and can’t be demolished.

My arse hurts just looking at it.

I prefer the Wayfarer’s Chapel in Palos Verdes, designed by his son Lloyd Wright, to Frank Lloyd Wright’s stuff

Just came to post what R118 did.

Here's another article on it.

Thats a cute house but seems like it would cost a fortune to restore

It will be a fortune to restore, and there's also limitations to what can be changed, especially on the exterior.

The roof and chimneys look newish. I wonder if it was rewired in recent times. One could I suppose slap paint on the interior and live in it as shabby chic. I would want insulation and good windows (probably quite challenging if there are protections).

[quote]No, no, I think OP has a point.

He has a point. An idiotic one, but a point.

Somewhat related...

A West Hollywood house by son Lloyd Wright, listed for $7M.

A few off details but an appealing house.

^ That hideous planting will deter the burglars.

So, the son was in to the furniture making too, R126?

When I toured Fallingwater several years ago, the docent talked about the built-in writing desk in this room. Originally, the desk was only going to extend a few inches out from the cabinet base. Edgar Kaufmann told Wright that he needed a bigger desk than that. Wright refused and said it was impossible to make it extend further out because the vertical window would not be able to be opened. Mr. Kaufmann said that as it was, the desk would not be large enough for him to write out his check to Wright. So Wright redesigned a larger desk with a circular cut-out so that the window could still be opened.

FLW's widow was a piece of work!

A docent 1. (in certain US and European universities and colleges) a member of the teaching staff immediately below professorial rank. 2. a person who acts as a guide, typically on a voluntary basis, in a museum, art gallery, or zoo.

I’ve been able to see Taliesin and Taliesin West, as well as this modest home in Mason City, Iowa. That town has the Park Inn which was designed by him as well.

Does anyone know why Architecture Digest is doing so many pieces on FLW? After decades of not being a subscriber I decided to subscribe (it was only $10/year for print and digital) and it seems as if every day I've been getting something on FLW. I just haven't had time to sit down and read it all yet.

R133 Because, as this thread has pointed out, he is the only US architect known to the hoi polloi.

R56 sad but true.

Thank God for the janitor!

Does anyone care to share any stories/gossip about FLW and Philip Johnson? I don't know anything except that they didn't like each other.

Oh, R137, do you want us to retail factual anecdotes?

Or do you want us to be typical Dataloungers and dream up lazy, idiotic gossip?

R137 I bet PJ was as arrogant and pushy as FLW.

90% of young architects are under the delusion that they're changing the world for the better and automatically hate all architects of the previous generation.

Frank Lloyd Wright was a true original – creator of buildings both flawed and brilliant, a devout believer in his own genius, nature-loving, midwestern, New-York-hating – who sought to realise an American pioneer spirit, one that broke with the old world of classical columns and pediments. He would speak with quasi-biblical language about the truths he claimed for his life and architecture. He was, arguably, America’s greatest architect.

Philip Johnson was perhaps most at home at his table in the Four Seasons restaurant off Park Avenue, a space of sophistication and great cost created to his designs. He was urbane, Europhile, plagiaristic, fascinated with the superficial, a self-confessed “whore”, sociable, political, an operator both Machiavellian and Mephistophelean. He was a mostly terrible architect, who nonetheless managed to create or assist in some of the most influential buildings of 20th-century America. The critic Paul Goldberger called him “the greatest architectural presence of our time”, which was roughly right – a presence rather than an actual architect.

A harmonious use of both architects?

Atibaia House in São Paulo, Brazil

Wright was fine when he avoided crowding or insisting on narrowness rather than breadth. Unfortunately, additional to some of the material failures and engineering issues, his mannerist approach to "total environment" design sometimes seemed to arrive at an aesthetic space that one wouldn't want to live in any more than one would want to reside in a dollhouse.

Every experiment was interesting, but interesting residences often are tyrannical. As Wright was.

R131 We know, Rose.

Speaking as someone who is naive, I'm surprised that his estate hasn't done more to license his name and style to further enrich his name and... their wallets. Yep, a lot of his furniture is uncomfortable but there are a lot of his furnishings I wouldn't mind buying copies of to have in my home. I wouldn't mind owning clothing with his motifs, etc. I did a quick search and could find no type of merchandise licensing deals, but I did find the FLW store that translated his designs to everyday items. I wouldn't mind owning a set of FLW sheets, towels, etc. I mean he is America's greatest architect--only because that is what we've been taught as someone noted above, but even so, why not make money off of that title and his designs.

[quote]...I'm surprised that his estate hasn't done more to license his name and style to further enrich his name and... their wallets.

R144, the Frank Lloyd Wright Foundation does this already, and has done for some time. There's a licensing tab at your link that notes that they authorize "official" reproductions and products incorporating Wright motifs: silk scarves to dining room furniture. The FLW Foundation was founded by Wright and his wife and was the beneficiary of his estate. There have been officially authorized reproductions of furniture for many years, off and on, across multiple manufacturers. At the link below are authentically detailed modern pieces made to FLW designs; they also make some pieces that are more in-the-spirit-of rather than careful repros.

Some of the early furniture repros of the classic and sought after designs used to command very high prices themselves, although I think the market for him is not so feverish as it was in the 1980s-1990s. Whether they are unauthorized repros or the rights were acquired many years ago, there are a fair number of manufacturers turning out various models of Wright furniture with various degrees of quality.

Here is the sought after Barrell Chair design of 1937, offered through a UK webpage of the Italian furniture manufacurer Steel Domus. Base price: £1900 ($2300). Another Italian firm, Cassina produces teh same chair and the famous tall back "Robie House Chair" and some of his batwing looking plywood chairs which, to me, are very much an acquired taste.

Thanks, R145

I couldn’t post, but wanted to comment that Frank Lloyd Wright was incredibly homophobic and threw out students from his architecture schools if he discovered they were gay. The most famous being Edgar Kauffman Jr., who he didn’t mind taking money from his father despite his disgust at his son’s affliction. Kauffmann, to his credit, didn’t seem to hold it against him and prompted Wright extensively at MOMA as head of the design and architect department. Of course Kauffmann was very close to Philip Johnson, and I think Wright’s tension and dismissal with him was more related to him being gay, rather then being a fascist or envious of him as an architect.

FLW overcompensating for something? The old story? Nobody here should be surprised.

Frank Lloyd Wright’s Only Ocean House Sold for a Record-Breaking $22 Million—Here’s What It Looks Like Inside--PUBLISHED: MAR 9, 2023

It's been over 60 years since Frank Lloyd Wright's passing, but the famed architect and his works are still making headlines. Not only is his final project called Circular Sun House on the market for $8.95 million, but the Wall Street Journal also reports that his Mrs. Clinton Walker House just sold for $22 million, making it the most expensive transaction for a Wright-designed home. (Prior to this sale, the Ennis House in Los Angeles held the title for $18 million.) However, this home was never officially listed, says Jessica Canning of Sotheby's International, who represented the seller.

Located on Carmel Point—an area near California's idyllic Carmel-by-the-Sea, just a few hours south of San Francisco—Wright crafted this home to look like a ship piercing through water. The Mrs. Clinton Walker House—or, as it's also known, Cabin on the Rocks—was commissioned by Pebble Beach artist Della Walker in 1945 and completed in 1952. Of course, the record-breaking price isn't the only interesting thing about this property. As Wright's only oceanfront project, this 1,400-square-foot residence offers incredible views of the Pacific Ocean, Carmel Bay, and Pebble Beach. The home's materials like cedar, concrete, glass, and caramel-tinged stone cleverly blur the line between old and new.

But, don't take our word for it: Read on for an intimate look at the most expensive Frank Lloyd Wright home to date.

(This is article published by House Beautiful. I could not link it but the linked video is a tour of the house)

I guess I missed this (or forgotten it) from my schooling but what an appropriate way to describe FLW's designs-- "Compression then Release" When one enters his structures you are compressed and as you move through and into the structure you feel a release as it opens up.

Like the anal canal after a hit of poppers.

[quote]Fallingwater is inventive but honestly, I'm not sure I'd want to live there.

Neither did the person who actually paid for it to be built.

R6 must be Jennifer Aniston…

ON THE MARKET

A Restored Frank Lloyd Wright House Lists in Tulsa for $7.9 Million

The home was built in 1929 for the architect’s cousin, Richard Lloyd Jones--By Katherine McLaughlin

April 18, 2023

A Frank Lloyd Wright house in Tulsa has just listed for $7.995 million following a two-year restoration, The Wall Street Journal (WSJ) reports. The home, known as Westhope, was designed by Wright in the late 1920s for his cousin, Richard Lloyd Jones, a publisher for the Tulsa Tribune. The property is listed by Rob Allen of Sage Sotheby’s International Realty, and according to the WSJ, Stuart Price, a commercial real-estate investor, is the seller.

Located in the Greater Oakview neighborhood, the home is largely defined by an expansive façade, which makes use of Wright’s innovative “textile block” system (a building method that involved stacking patterned concrete blocks together to build a structure’s walls). Westhope is the only Wright project outside of California to use this style, the most famous example of which is likely the Ennis House in Los Angeles. Aside from the blocks, the façade also features thousands of glass panes that bring the outdoor scenery inside. At 10,400 square feet, the five-bedroom home is one of the largest the architect ever designed. It was included on the National Register of Historic Places in 1972.

Price told the WSJ that most of the restoration involved repairing the facade’s concrete blocks, replacing foggy windows, removing carpeting, and updating the kitchen to a style that better reflects Wright’s original design. He also restored the pool and updated the landscaping of the nearly two-acre property. According to listing images, the house appears to be staged in a collection of Wright-style furniture, like in the dining room where chairs similar to Wright’s Robie 1 stand, as well as more contemporary midcentury-inspired pieces. However, several original bookcases and wood-burning fireplaces can also be found throughout the home. Since completing the renovation, Price said that local organization like the Tulsa Ballet have held fundraisers at the property. The home has also be used for private events.

Among it’s unique design and size, the home’s most notable claim-to-fame is a frequently quoted anecdote that took place within the walls. During a bad Tulsa rainstorm, water started leaking through the roof, a common occurrence among Wright homes. Lloyd Jones reportedly called his cousin, saying, “Damn it, Frank, it’s leaking on my desk!” to which Frank Lloyd Wright calmly replied “Richard, why don’t you move your desk?” Georgia Lloyd Jones, Richard’s wife, had a more poetic take on the situation. “This is what we get for leaving a work of art out in the rain,” she said.

What a vindictive little man he was!

Uhm... suuuure he wasn't aware of the linen closet...

There's no indication that he offered to correct the mistake either!

To revisit this thread of a few months ago, here's a piece from Architectural Digest in which owners of seven FLW houses describe their experiences -- experiences that, despite all the corny Frank Lloyd Wrong jokes and tired old truths/saws about leaky roofs and uncomfortable chairs, are enormously positive.

I have a friend from college days whose parents, professionals in very different fields, were taken with Wright's work and lived in a couple of his houses and collected some artifacts and drawings of his design. It made a huge, lifelong impression on the whole family. And for a large segment of working architects to have had Wright as a hero of sorts or to have upheld him as a model in some ways (even while differing in others) is more ordinary than extraordinary.

Like him or hate him, he made a huge imprint as the owners of his houses attest. Historic houses are better in the hands of people who adapt to what they are, not bent to how an owner would prefer them. Anyone sensible knows that going in, yet not all buyers are sensible; in the case of Wright buildings there's an uncommon lot of forewarning which is probably just as well for all concerned; but it's not an unhappy or ruinous experience for every owner.

Not really relevant but it’s curious why the article about the Carmel house states it’s “just a few hours” south of San Francisco. It’s two hours. What’s just a few? L.A. is six, that’s just a few too.

Who’s really going to tell AD and its readers that their FLW house has been an low ceiling damp rising money pit headache?

He and Frank Gehry belong in the same category -- overblown.

Beautiful...

(Robie House)