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Kiryas Joel, NY - An Impoverished Religious Dictatorship Right Here in America

It's a town that only hits the news every few years, usually due to a corruption scandal or a bit of violence in their public schools, but take a look at the village of Kiryas Joel, just upstate from New York City.

The local religious police (not a legal police force, but still thugs with sticks) wander around enforcing a long list of religious rules lifted straight from the darker corners of the Talmud. Think of it as a Jewish form of Saudi Arabia, or an American Taliban.

Genders are strictly separated in public - separate entrances and even separate buildings, and no line of sight between men and women. Even families are separated.

Children largely attend unlicensed religious schools. The boys do, anyway. And there are a shitload of kids in this village. They typically top the list of the highest birth rate in a single community in the United States, due largely to their religious opposition to birth control or family planning.

Those few KJ kids in area public schools bring with them an army of sue-happy parents and angry rabbis, who take over school board meetings with raucous protests against secular education. The state of New York has struggled to find funding and teaching resources for public schools in this area, and non-Hasidic families in the county report regular harassment and intimidation during elections for school board leaders. The school district has constant battles over dress codes, library books, and the role of female teachers around male students.

KJ also typically has the lowest per-capita income in the country, at around $4,500 annually according to this article. This is due to the massive number of children in the village, but also the fact that most working-age women are forbidden to work and most working-age males are pushed into religious studies rather than paying jobs.

It's long been the state's biggest magnet for food stamps, direct cash payments, WIC vouchers, housing vouchers, and other forms of low-income assistance. This place takes in more welfare than the poorest parts of the Bronx.

The village is legally incorporated under New York law, with voters, a tax structure, and an elected government. But as the town is virtually 100% a single religious sect, the local rabbi(s) control all political matters. There have been disputes in the past where feuding rabbis split the town's voters on a mild issue, and they treat it like a neighborly holy war.

It's utterly bizarre, and claims of child abuse and fraud run rampant, but the state hasn't yet stepped in to disincorporate the village.

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by Anonymousreply 61December 28, 2022 2:32 AM

I should add that the village is dominated by an offshoot sect of ordinary Hasidic Judaism, which is conservative on its own, but nowhere near as strict or raucous as this town's version. They're considered quite insular and extreme by mainline Jewish Americans.

by Anonymousreply 1December 27, 2022 2:27 AM

Well, at least the dictators and their victims are all cut.

by Anonymousreply 2December 27, 2022 2:37 AM

There was a Law and Order episode set in a version of this (I think it was SVU) with Richard Belsen as the Jewish shamus sent to investigate. It was interesting and infuriating.

by Anonymousreply 3December 27, 2022 2:38 AM

Nah...everyone in the Northeast is liberal and cool!

by Anonymousreply 4December 27, 2022 2:40 AM

R3 I remember that episode. Very eye opening indeed. What a strange world.

by Anonymousreply 5December 27, 2022 2:41 AM

The Lost World: Hasidic Park

by Anonymousreply 6December 27, 2022 2:46 AM

Usually I read about something awful going down there, nothing good.

by Anonymousreply 7December 27, 2022 2:47 AM

What a great place to open a gay-friendly bed & breakfast!

by Anonymousreply 8December 27, 2022 2:54 AM

They're very fucked up people. Living on every gov't benefit available, too.

by Anonymousreply 9December 27, 2022 2:54 AM

There is so much inbreeding and passing on bad genes. There are a lot of mental health issues that are both cultural as well as genetic.

by Anonymousreply 10December 27, 2022 2:56 AM

Normal Jews can't stand Hasidim, so this group must be impossible.

by Anonymousreply 12December 27, 2022 3:00 AM

Nobody talks shit about the Hasids more than regular, normal Jews. They hate them with a passion.

by Anonymousreply 13December 27, 2022 3:02 AM

Can I get them to bake a kosher cake for my gay wedding?

by Anonymousreply 14December 27, 2022 3:04 AM

The villagers are on welfare because they study their faith and can't work. One person who escaped complained about the expensive fur hats worn by welfare recipients.

by Anonymousreply 15December 27, 2022 3:04 AM

they study their faith FULL TIME and can't work.

by Anonymousreply 16December 27, 2022 3:06 AM

Well, I know one place in NY State where I won't be able to get a ham sandwich.

by Anonymousreply 17December 27, 2022 3:08 AM

There's hypocrisy with this. Nobody would allow Muslims to do this. Christian fundamentalists like LDS, FLDS, Jehovah's Witnesses and IFB get exposed all the time by the media about their corruption and draining government resources. Yet Hasidic fundamentalists get a pass for their corruption because people are scared to be accused of antisemitism. This is a big issue in the NY/NJ area. Thank goodness, regular Jews spoke out against them too.

by Anonymousreply 18December 27, 2022 3:14 AM

Our country has no values, but the “religious freedoms” and steady steam of welfare checks, where do we sign up?

by Anonymousreply 19December 27, 2022 3:17 AM

R14 they do not practice good hygiene so you wouldn’t want to eat anything that comes out of their kitchens. I

I don’t think they willingly do business outside their community so highly unlikely an agitator who wanted to test this issue would be able to contact them to discuss.

by Anonymousreply 20December 27, 2022 3:17 AM

The US has gone to extremes to cater to religious nuts over the basic human rights of everyone else

by Anonymousreply 21December 27, 2022 3:19 AM

R19 Religion in America has always been a business. The tax exempt status always attracts the thugs who can put on a suit and preach a sermon for an hour or two.

by Anonymousreply 22December 27, 2022 3:22 AM

This is the article that touched the surface of the issues. It is a cult.

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by Anonymousreply 23December 27, 2022 4:32 AM

R22 I just meant that it’s ironic that their lifestyles are funded by those same bloc of taxpayers that they mostly look down on for not being religious zealot shills like they are.

by Anonymousreply 24December 27, 2022 4:39 AM

One bright spot is that they don't believe in vaccinations, so a few cases of measles would probably spread like wildfire and bring down half the town.

by Anonymousreply 25December 27, 2022 5:13 AM

R, 😆 I love you, dear. Love it.

by Anonymousreply 26December 27, 2022 5:22 AM

R8..

by Anonymousreply 27December 27, 2022 5:22 AM

The Satmars are famous for holding huge weddings during the pandemic.

They're also anti-Zionist, which is why they're still in the U.S. Damnit.

by Anonymousreply 28December 27, 2022 5:30 AM

[quote] [R22] I just meant that it’s ironic that their lifestyles are funded by those same bloc of taxpayers that they mostly look down on for not being religious zealot shills like they are.

Like that’s so different from republicans in America? It’s nothing new to the USA.

Red states by and large pay less into the federal government than they take from it. The situation is typically reversed with blue states. Yet to listen to red staters, blue staters are unamerican and a bunch of welfare recipients.

Southwest American states rail against the evil federal government and pride themselves for their independent lifestyles, yet those states would be literally uninhabitable af the current levels without massive federal involvement.

Biting the hand that feeds you is a time honored tradition amongst American conservatives.

by Anonymousreply 29December 27, 2022 5:43 AM

R29 must be a cult member; more what-about-ism than any Republican could spew.

by Anonymousreply 30December 27, 2022 1:16 PM

I'd say who cares and let the psychos be, but children being raised in a place like this isn't acceptable.

by Anonymousreply 31December 27, 2022 1:28 PM

They are experts at sucking money from the welfare system and getting the government to build health clinics and birthing centers on the taxpayer dime.

An example is, they never get civilly married so, on paper, every mother is unwed so able to tap tons in welfare funds for her kids. They claim their taxpayer-built health centers are open to all, but only the community Hassids go there. Others don’t feel welcome. The grift that keeps on giving.

by Anonymousreply 32December 27, 2022 1:31 PM

R28, yes in fact, one of the Covid waves in NYC started in the Hasidic areas of Brooklyn and spread from there. The weddings were ridiculous. Videos showed literally thousands of unmasked people dancing together during a pandemic.

by Anonymousreply 33December 27, 2022 1:33 PM

A decent politician with brains needs to write a welfare reform bill aimed directly at this abuse and make them pay for all their own kids. Isn't it a separation of church/state issue?

I'm certain the rabid Catholic zealots on the Supreme Court would vote against these Jewish cults.

by Anonymousreply 34December 27, 2022 1:56 PM

R34, they vote GOP reliably so no GOP politician will do it (although the GOP claims to stand against welfare abuse). Dems won’t do it for fear of being called anti-Semitic.

by Anonymousreply 35December 27, 2022 2:11 PM

This is one thing that is very bad with our welfare system. Able bodied men and women should be required to get jobs, and if those jobs didn't provide adequately then the welfare system could help them out. But they should not be allowed to sit on their asses and live completely on the welfare dole.

by Anonymousreply 36December 27, 2022 2:15 PM

If they got jobs, wouldn’t the jobs pay for their healthcare? If not, why are employers allowed to get away with not providing healthcare?

by Anonymousreply 37December 27, 2022 2:41 PM

[Quote] But they should not be allowed to sit on their asses and live completely on the welfare dole.

Welfare is limited to 5 years over a lifetime.

by Anonymousreply 38December 27, 2022 2:42 PM

R38 That’s why you become a puppy mill. Keep popping out kids and look down at the rest of the world the world but take their handouts.

by Anonymousreply 39December 27, 2022 2:51 PM

R39, their handouts are peanuts actually. Having kids gives you only a minuscule amount more. It’s not a way to wealth in any form

by Anonymousreply 40December 27, 2022 3:07 PM

Is it really "improverished"?

Are people starving and living without basic needs like running water and sanitary facilities?

by Anonymousreply 41December 27, 2022 3:44 PM

^^^ sorry, posted before my final point.

If people CHOOSE to live in poverty - and yes, in this case it would be a choice - why should any of us care?

by Anonymousreply 42December 27, 2022 3:45 PM

They aren’t impoverished. It’s a cash based insular economy and no one reports the cash. It pretends to be extremely poor to get every government benefit possible

by Anonymousreply 43December 27, 2022 3:55 PM

[quote]If they got jobs, wouldn’t the jobs pay for their healthcare? If not, why are employers allowed to get away with not providing healthcare?

Benefits are tied to full-time employment, and many businesses love to work people for 39 hours a week and call them part-timers to get around providing benefits for them. Trader Joes was one of the main offenders for a while.

by Anonymousreply 44December 27, 2022 4:03 PM

Not that most of these grifters want to work even 20 hours at a real job, let alone 39.

by Anonymousreply 45December 27, 2022 4:04 PM

All I can ever think about these people is the heavy fabrics and wool they wear, coupled with a lack of antiperspirant, and what a fucking olfactory nightmare it must be year-round in their buildings.

Seriously though: Do what you want, I’m cool with living your life by your beliefs. But when you start squashing the rights of your people (women and girls in the religion, primarily), gaming the system politically (local govt) and financially (welfare) and you actively avoid properly educating your children, I have a huge problem with it. Huge.

by Anonymousreply 46December 27, 2022 4:56 PM
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by Anonymousreply 47December 27, 2022 5:29 PM
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by Anonymousreply 48December 27, 2022 5:30 PM
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by Anonymousreply 49December 27, 2022 5:30 PM
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by Anonymousreply 50December 27, 2022 5:32 PM

despise them, you say? yet they all want a breslov dj.

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by Anonymousreply 51December 27, 2022 5:35 PM

"Genders are strictly separated in public - separate entrances and even separate buildings, and no line of sight between men and women."

But what of the non-binary Kiryas Joelians?

by Anonymousreply 52December 27, 2022 6:09 PM

FLDS do this too.

by Anonymousreply 53December 27, 2022 6:12 PM

R23 More like "Grifty Grunewald," am I right?

by Anonymousreply 54December 27, 2022 6:12 PM

The double standard on welfare never fails to make me laugh. White fundies get away with funnelling money all the time and the tax exempt status of their churches helps keeps the money. While most Black people, Latino and Native Americans work jobs and don't rely on assistance as much as the GOP claims. Hasidic fundies vote GOP, so they're protected. Secular and mainstream Jews vote Democrat mostly and believe in separation of church and state.

by Anonymousreply 55December 27, 2022 6:13 PM

R55 preach brother.

by Anonymousreply 56December 27, 2022 6:25 PM

You realize they don't view most Jews as Jewish.

by Anonymousreply 57December 27, 2022 6:45 PM

R57 Yep it's similar to how Evangelical fundamentalists don't view Catholics and Episcopalians are real Christians. Or how Salafis and Wahhabs don't view most Muslims as real Muslims.

by Anonymousreply 58December 27, 2022 6:48 PM

I didn't know they run B & H Photo. I think I bought a phone from them once.

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by Anonymousreply 59December 27, 2022 6:59 PM

I prefer threads about water polo Joel not covering up.

by Anonymousreply 60December 27, 2022 7:04 PM

This is where Curious George is from?

by Anonymousreply 61December 28, 2022 2:32 AM
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