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Sexual Orientation of Ancient Greeks — Genes or culture or both?

So you know how the Ancient Greeks had the practice of pederasty? Where an adult male has a sexual relationship with an adolescent boy?

Did most adolescent boys enjoy this relationship? Did they check out hot daddies as often as hot women? Did adult men ogle twinks as often as they ogled young ladies?

Were they born this way? Or were they born with a potential to have same sex attraction that was culturally reinforced? If the same sex attraction was the norm in Greece, why is it no longer the norm today?

Is there such a thing as being born gay and being born with potential to be gay or bi?

by Anonymousreply 45May 24, 2023 1:30 PM

Merry Christmas, Mr. Singer

by Anonymousreply 1December 24, 2022 1:39 AM

Ask Erna, she was there

by Anonymousreply 2December 24, 2022 1:44 AM

Those guys weren’t pre-pubescent children. They were young twinks, but post-puberty. Fucking children was always looked down upon.

by Anonymousreply 3December 24, 2022 1:45 AM

The Greeks didn't look on it as merely a sexual liaison. The older men served as mentors, and provided social (climbing) contacts and opportunities. The boy's father had to approve of the man/men who wanted to be with his son, and often he would appoint a slave, or slaves, to watch over him and keep undesirable suiters away. Interestingly, these slaves were called pedagogues (origin of modern day pedagogy). Fathers used to pray that their sons would be handsome and attract high-level suitors who would enrich the family fortunes and create a higher social status for the boy. There were many laws and rituals surrounding the relationship, and the younger man was seen as better off for the relationship, and in no way degraded or used.

As for the boys themselves, They saw the arrangement more in social/commercial terms than sexual. It is generally agreed that no anal or oral sex was practiced in this relationship -just interfemoral stimulation. Penetrative sex was reserved for prostitutes (of either sex -it was socially acceptable for a free man to visit prostitutes of either gender). Modern-day scholars pretty much agree that the man and boy formed a consensual, loving bond, and not coercive or power-based.

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by Anonymousreply 4December 24, 2022 2:17 AM

It should be “Happy Hanukkah, Mr. Singer” appearances not withstanding.

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by Anonymousreply 5December 24, 2022 2:42 AM

'13 Questions' by Seatrain, produced by George Martin, aka the Fifth Beatle

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by Anonymousreply 6December 24, 2022 2:49 AM

[quote] suiters

by Anonymousreply 7December 24, 2022 2:53 AM

What does prison homosexuality tell you?

What does boarding school homosexuality tell you?

What does the rampant homosexuality in hardline, gender segregated Islamic societies like Afghanistan tell you?

It tells you that culture and environment mediate the acceptability and frequency of homosexual behaviour by supposedly straight men. When it's totally normalised, many or most of them will indulge.

by Anonymousreply 8December 24, 2022 4:19 AM

Men are horny bastards who just want to get off.

by Anonymousreply 9December 24, 2022 4:59 AM

We live in a world where men will turn to soft fruit for pleasure.

by Anonymousreply 10December 24, 2022 5:18 AM

R8, to answer the question, I’d have to know the rate of homosexuality in prison and boarding schools.

For the record, I went to a co-ed boarding school. Plenty of straight kids got caught having sex, but no gay stories, unfortunately.

by Anonymousreply 11December 24, 2022 5:21 AM

[quote] Did most adolescent boys enjoy this relationship?

I don't know.

[quote] Did they check out hot daddies as often as hot women?

I don't know.

[quote] Did adult men ogle twinks as often as they ogled young ladies?

[quote] Were they born this way?

I don't know.

[quote] Or were they born with a potential to have same sex attraction that was culturally reinforced?

I don't know.

[quote]If the same sex attraction was the norm in Greece, why is it no longer the norm today?

I don't know.

[quote] Is there such a thing as being born gay and being born with potential to be gay or bi?

I don't know. I think it's better to be truthfully ignorant than be foolishly speculative and basically incorrect.

by Anonymousreply 12December 24, 2022 5:26 AM

It’s funny how we have no definitive answers about how exactly a society functioned several thousand years ago OP. Perhaps you should write a term paper on it.

by Anonymousreply 13December 24, 2022 5:49 AM

Or at least a coming to terms with it paper.

by Anonymousreply 14December 24, 2022 6:05 AM

Stealth pedo thread by visiting Stormer.

by Anonymousreply 15December 24, 2022 6:19 AM

[quote] we have no definitive answers

We don't even know who threw the first brick.

by Anonymousreply 16December 24, 2022 6:56 AM

Wasn't this practice begun well before the Christian era?

by Anonymousreply 17December 24, 2022 9:27 AM

Brick throwing? I think they called them adobe back then.

by Anonymousreply 18December 24, 2022 12:07 PM

r10 is Timothy Chalamet

by Anonymousreply 19December 24, 2022 12:11 PM

Soft fruit maybe, but I think stone fruit should be avoided.

by Anonymousreply 20December 24, 2022 12:22 PM

R8 I once read that friendly handjobs were normal before the term homosexuality was known.

It makes sense. Straight guys are capable of crossing lines. Masturbating together still happens. Fraternities and hazing all revolve around homosexual behavior.

Men would be as open about their sexuality as women if women allowed it.

Women are very homophobic. They accept you because you don’t threaten them. Any threat to pussy power is taboo - male sex toys (creepy), porn (cheating), prostitution (predatory), bisexual (faggot), transgender (faggot) in their minds.

by Anonymousreply 21December 24, 2022 1:03 PM


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by Anonymousreply 22December 24, 2022 1:11 PM

R21 if women have that much power and control, how come they aren’t running the world, by now?

by Anonymousreply 23December 24, 2022 1:13 PM

R23 They do according to Beyoncé!

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by Anonymousreply 24December 24, 2022 1:24 PM

R4 was spot on.

Before 1700 sex was organized around age and status. Men could have sex with women and younger males...servants, apprentices, and others of lesser status.And elite women could have intimate and even sexual relationships with other women. Key point is that all these relationships were ignored for the greater part because they did not threaten social order. They became problematic when they threatened patriarchal norms.

After 1700, heterosexuality became the norm, and you have the emergence of distinct homosexual subcultures in urban areas...the molly houses in London, for example.

by Anonymousreply 25December 24, 2022 1:36 PM

Heterosexual norms took away all the fun!

by Anonymousreply 26December 24, 2022 1:43 PM

Thank you for your insightful contribution to the discussion, R12. Are you an asshole? I don't know...

No, yes I do know.

by Anonymousreply 27December 24, 2022 4:45 PM

r23 manspreading, mansplaning... yeah, women are powerless.

by Anonymousreply 28December 24, 2022 7:44 PM

R27 = Eric Cervini

by Anonymousreply 29December 24, 2022 7:54 PM

I had to look him up, R29, but thank you! He's very sexy. No, I'm not he.

And you are still and asshole. : )

by Anonymousreply 30December 24, 2022 8:22 PM

Eric Cervini is sexy and intellectually shallow.

He'd be telling us that the Ancient Greeks were "born this way".

And he'd be telling us that the Ancient Greeks wore skirts because they were 'transgender'.

by Anonymousreply 31December 24, 2022 8:28 PM

No, he's too well-bred to say anything with my dick in his mouth.

by Anonymousreply 32December 24, 2022 8:32 PM

Eric Cervini = So Sexy

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by Anonymousreply 33December 24, 2022 8:42 PM

Abrahamic religions criminalized homosexual acts and once medieval era hit, those anti-homosex scriptures were used to make a scapegoat for famines, wars and plagues and it was never the same. Just like those misogynistic and anti-magic scriptures were used in conjunction to justify the witch hunts.

by Anonymousreply 34December 24, 2022 9:04 PM

“Interfemoral stimulation?” That doesn’t sound very satisfying.

by Anonymousreply 35December 24, 2022 9:15 PM

A good friend of mine went to an all-male military boarding school for high school and from the stories he's told me there was more sex going on than in a Turkish prison.

by Anonymousreply 36December 24, 2022 9:39 PM

I know a guy who is totally into interfemoral sex. You can hold each other close, kiss, rub, etc. -along with a bit of lube (store-bought or natural) -and it gives the top much of the same pleasure as anal sex. For the bottom, it's about the closeness and touching, and often the friction of the guy on top brings him to orgasm as well. Less messy, and no need to prep (or PREP).

by Anonymousreply 37December 24, 2022 10:21 PM

Only Ancient Greeks? Pffft!

by Anonymousreply 38December 24, 2022 10:23 PM

I can live fine without anal. Frotting, mutual jackoff, kissing, nipple play and body contact is all just as hot and pleasurable. Lack of oral though would be disappointing though.

by Anonymousreply 39December 24, 2022 10:27 PM

Sex is so dirty and gross. To evolve we must be a post-sex society.

by Anonymousreply 40December 25, 2022 4:40 AM

R40 Thanks for your insight Roxanne Gay!

by Anonymousreply 41December 25, 2022 5:48 AM

Okay, yes technically sex is gross but so is shitting, sneezing, spitting, peeing, sweating, eating, farting, menstruating and other bodily functions humans do. We still need to do it for our survival. Sexual attraction exists because we'd probably would be grossed out by the act of sex if we didn't become intensely aroused and attracted to others. Take away physical attraction and you'd notice the human body is awkward looking and not really sexy. But I don't think society would be better off without sex. We'd find something else to be assholes to each other about.

by Anonymousreply 42December 25, 2022 6:24 AM


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by Anonymousreply 43May 21, 2023 4:12 PM

There is no "born this way". It's the human condition. "born this way" is just an excuse for people who feel ashamed of something completely normal.

by Anonymousreply 44May 21, 2023 4:49 PM

Tbh I’m more curious about Iron Age-600 B.C. Britain, before during and also after the Roman occupation. According to my currently superficial understanding, the Celtic tribes that occupied Britain before the Romans had no taboo against homosexuality, and Hadrian (big old mo that he was) of course found this very amicable. The first taboos specifically and explicitly against homosexuality only came to our shores with the Germanic tribes and the Scandinavians/Vikings, both of whom took a dim view of same-sex practises and had anyone found engaging in them punished. The first entrenched laws prohibiting sexuality though actually came in around 700-800 A.D., from Xtian monks & missionaries (who else), coming from Northumbria (home of that fraud Bede) and from abroad to proselytise tonrhe Germanic settlers and the native Britons (the few who hadn’t fled or been slaughtered) about the Good News or whatever.

by Anonymousreply 45May 24, 2023 1:30 PM
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