Why is the gay community so hyper-obsessed with inclusiveness?

Whereupon enter the shriekers.

[quote]And yet, the gays are constantly trying to redefine gay.

Because they don’t like being gay. It’s a need to cure homosexuality. If reparative therapy was left wing, like transgenderism, (or in the cloak of left wing ideology like transgenderism) it would be celebrated.

Simple: we want to be a larger percentage of the population.

Because it’s more of a social construct compared to race and ethnicity. Anyone can identify as LGBT.

It’s kind of an an individual experience. On my fathers side, there’s generations of being black. But I don’t think there’s generations of being gay. Me and my first cousin are gay, it’s not like we’re going to pass it down to our kids if either of us have any.

So with that said, it becomes more of a scene. Being gay is an orientation but it’s come with a scene. Is it a culture or a scene? That’s the question. But that explains why it’s become open for everyone.

I think gays and lesbians didn’t gatekeep as much as we should have and this influx of straight “queer” people and everything is the consequence.

But we preached about acceptance so it would be a contradiction to gatekeep.

Putting aside the media hyperbole and all the flavor-of-the-week kids defining as "non-binary," transgender and non-gender conforming people actually represent a very, very small segment of the population. Not enough to make us "a larger percentage of the population," really.

If we really want to increase our numbers and our representation, we would be working more strenuously to get more closeted men who have sex with men (MSM, as social scientists call them) who do NOT identify openly as gay or bisexual to do so. These are substantial numbers. And it's the right thing to do, IMHO.

The current all trans, all non-binary, genderfluid (and anti-"cis male") focus is doing nothing but alienating these men from the LGBT community.

Gays, I would argue, probably have less self-esteem than blacks, and that’s pretty damn low.

Growing up I've always liked the idea of inclusivity. Some gay men, as we know, take exclusivity to a high school, mean girls level, and I wonder if some of us are reacting against that. I don't like that kind of thing.

But having said this, as I get older I find I agree more and more with your point OP. Gay people have allowed a lot to happen in our community under the banner of inclusivity that no other group would be expected to do. It's not just that some of us want to do it, it's also that at large we are [italic]expected[/italic] to be inclusive of people who aren't gay within our community - which almost makes me wonder if that is a sign that straight people deep down still think this is a choice we've made, or if it's just "oh they're all oddballs deep down so they go together".

Gay men also seem to be the only community who has our idols come predominantly from outside of our community (lots of straight women/"divas" for example). Who are the gay men we should be looking up to and revering? That would be more interesting.

And yes, as R6 says, our self-esteem is generally extremely low. We don't want to be shut out, and knowing what that feels like means we often don't want to shut others out either.

I'd argue we can have our own community without having to be mean about it either - to support other communities all standing alongside each other. There could be a positive way to do this.

Or we just all meld together as one community called "humanity". But I think that is awhile off in the future yet.

T is gay erasure, T is conversion therapy.

OP, exclude whomever you wish to exclude from your country club life. Those of us who don't wish to join your homogeneous world won't, if we're even "allowed" in.

But, the ONE thing that irks me on the topic is going onto the gay male sex apps and seeing many trans women there. That is not the space for that particular activity. There are other trans spaces for sex. I have never met the gay man (and I've met legions) who has sexual desire for trans women, so why do MTF's wish to enter a gay "cis"-male sex space?

R9 because they’re lumped with us and the bis and “straights” are there

They're there because the T chasers went to Grindr as well. The shutting down of Craigslist personals probably had something to do with it.

It's political. LGBT are invisible unless they are out and open. Closeted LGBT have no political power. Aggregating a larger share of non-heterosexuals creates a political bloc that carries influence. Many gay men who don't live in "blue" bubbles remain closeted so they are not targeted for abuse, or otherwise associated with trans, flames, gay whores, muscle Marys and other stereotypically gay cliches.

Pretty huge increase in anti-trans threads recently, specifically ones indicating that gay men MUST separate themselves from trans people. Trolls were focused on the election and American politics, now it's back to bashing women & minorities. Trolls are predictable.

R13 So no-one is allowed to be legitimately fed up of trannies and all the T and non-binary shit? They can only be and MUST be trolls and Russian agents? Fuck off with that shit.

The activists. They scream and holler and carry on and gays in regular life sort of figure it must make sense or there wouldn't be so much expectation around how you're supposed to think and adopt the priority without critical thinking. Social media has concurrently created hyper weariness, which helps seal the deal.

I'm convinced that Intersectionality has been introduces as a way to hamper real activism. If you include everyone then the needs of the specific group you're advocating for can't be met. It's supposed to lend strength to activism but all its done is drain it.

Thats why the government loves it.

A good example would be the full, official inclusive acronym:

LGBTQQIP2SAA. The term stands for lesbian, gay, bisexual, transgender, queer, questioning, intersex, pansexual, two-spirit, asexual, and ally.

Ally... So that includes non homophobic straight people too... So renders it a but meaningless as a tool for activism.

Simple. We've run out of cock. We need more.

Likewise equating male circumcision and FGM as "the same thing" makes it difficult for infibulation survivors to advocate for their cause because it gets pulled into a (ususualy American) foreskin debate.

In fact trans rights and laws against genital mutilation are in direct oppostion to each other right now so the whole intersectional feminism thing has to go out the window for either side to even state their case.

Another problem with inclusiveness is that criminal or creepy actions committed by these mostly non-gay people are portrayed as an example of LGBT misbehavior.

In the past, gays couldn't have been linked to the creepy or criminal behaviors exhibited by many of the LGBT making the news today. Men raping women in prisons, male teachers dressing up as big breasted women and a man swinging his dick around in a female locker rooms would have been written off as freaky hetero crossdressers. Now, this is classified as actions committed by LGBT people.

I think its an American thing (exported world wide) because so much of America's past atrocities hinged on segregation. So now sectarianism of any type is considered poison even if it's as mild as saying "These two things aren't the same."

What exactly does inclusiveness mean?

At this point, it's lost most of its meaning.

And the people who use the word are so condescending.

R21 has a point - so much of this stuff comes out of an American context but with how global we are these days with social media it travels to everywhere.

LGB without the T trends every once in a while on Twitter. I kinda like the concept: sexuality vs gender. But then some people take it too far and call all trans people mentally ill and nobody is ever born in the wrong body. I think some T are crazy attention seekers but many just want to live their lives. And definitely believe some are born in the wrong body. But that doesn’t make them gay Lesbian or bisexual

I know what you mean R24 - some of it gets so nasty. I have a problem with rewriting history and the attempted changes at what gay and lesbian actually mean, but don’t like the idea of losing our humanity either. Wish the topic could be discussed Workout getting so unpleasant, the name calling etc. which happens across the board.

^without, sorry.

Our community is a bit damaged…maybe all minority communities are, just from societal oppression.

We are a motley crew. Homosexuals are male, female, black, white, brown, yellow, rich, poor, educated, disabled, addicted, etc.

We are not always inclusive with one another…some homos only want “A gays” in their friend group…they’ll find a reason, perhaps rooted in jealousy, to exclude another homo.

Being on the fringe affects us psychologically…we eventually get used to rejection & abandonment. Perhaps this lowers our standards.

We are vulnerable for a lot of reasons, but mostly because most societies find us repulsive… even though they are homo curious.

Something happened in the 90s…that was a brief golden era for us. But then things got dark.

When people started gaining fame & money just for being gay, we attracted narcissists who couldn’t cut it in the normal world & decided they could be gay famous. We underwent a hostile takeover…people wanted our pink dollars.

I’ve never personally profited off of the gay community & am suspicious of anyone who has/does.

Excellent post, R27!

R24 & r25, perhaps you mean well but T is our enemy. You should know that by now.

I’m not. I exclude

[quote]and call all trans people mentally ill

They are, though. Gender dysphoria is a legitimate mental health disorder. So, it's a medical condition and should be treated as such. I think it's more insulting to insinuate that people with mental health disorders/illness are somehow less than which is what you're doing here by stating that saying people who are trans are mentally ill is an insult when they literally are mentally ill.

That's the point. It's also insulting to the LGB community because it's lumping in a group with mental illness which, in a backhanded way, almost seems to imply that the entire community is mentally ill.

Because women were given too much a say in LGBT leadership, and all women can do is obsess about accommodating people.

R32 What 'leadership'? Do we have a king or queen I wasn't told about? The whole alphabet soup is a false culture that means nothing in practical terms. It certainly doesn't reflect the reality of life for actual gay people.

You have struck upon something though. I was Christmas shopping for my brother and sister's kids. almost EVERY single toy aimed at girls is about friendship, kindness and people pleasing and almost EVERY toy for boys is about killing, maiming and fighting.

No you might say "But females are naturally nurturing and males are naturally violent!" to which I would say: 1: You've never met my mother and 2 Imagine if it was reversed and every girl from birth was given a battle monster, gun or kill-dozer to play with. Do you think it would have absolutely NO effect on her at all?

We stereotype ourselves from an early age due to assumptions about the reality we are given by adults.

All this to say: The gender thing wouldn't be an issue if breeders weren't ignorant and in thrall to large corporations.

R33, something happened in the 1980s…remember “Toys R Us”? Totally segregated by sex.

The 1970s weren’t as bad…

That’s a good point. Companies wanting to get more money by creating two types of toy again?

I was born in the early 80s and looking back at photos, things were much more gender neutral coming out of the 70s.

I can remember when my generation started getting weirded out by the introduction of pink Lego aimed at girls. We all couldn’t understand it - Lego is for everyone. It seems to have progressively gotten worse in that respect.

Another example of how inclusivity hurts.

Chris Beck - formerly Kristin - is now coming out and saying he was used as a propaganda tool for transgenderism:

Retired Navy SEAL made famous after coming out as trans announces detransition: 'Destroyed my life'

And who was the person who most famously pushed Chris/Kristin's story? That would be a gay man named Anderson Cooper.

Is Anderson now going to do a follow-up interview to hear what Chris has to say now? He certainly should.

I would like to know why Ivy-league educated Anderson decide to make a link in the public's mind between gayness and straight guys who are confused about their desire to crossdress.

Yet another anti-trans thread.

R37, buckle up. It won't be too long before detransitioners find their way to DL.