Do married men with kids really hate their lives?

Sure. But it's usually the kids part that does them in. Every married but childless couple I know is happy.

Kids make people miserable (not their fault! but it's true)

I laugh to myself when people on here idolize straight guys thinking they are so sexy. Most hetero men are lazy fucks. Many stay with their wives because they like having a live in maid.

fortunately, most of the married men I know with children are actually happy and proud of their children. That not only includes my brother but my coworkers and neighbors. There are of course some people who should never have had children. Perhaps significantly a number of the people I referred to did not get married or have children until they were in their late 20s or early 30s.

Yes.

I have friends who are great fathers, love being a father, and are very happy (my brother among them), and a few who are pretty miserable. I was once asked not to talk about my "fabulous life" (meaning that I have dink benefits) around a former coworker, also a father but not a good one. Overall, I'd say the ratio is about 1 to 1, since half of all marriages end in divorce.

I know this will not be a popular opinion but I think women have it worse in marriage. My brother's wife has a good paying full time job, then when she comes home at she gets dinner on the table, does laundry, takes care of the kids. On holidays like Thanksgiving, my brother is on the couch watching the game while my sister in law is preparing dinner, setting the table, etc. (yes I did try to help her). Women are expected to keep their shape and looks meanwhile most middle aged husbands have beer bellies and are balding.

I don't know if I'd say they hate their lives, but I do think the emotional and financial commitment is exceedingly difficult, especially in modern society. I have one male co-worker who is my age and has two kids under the age of three. He and his wife both work full-time, and he always seems exhausted. Having a newborn and a toddler at home while juggling a career to pay the bills is no joke. I don't know how most people manage this.

It's not necessarily beer bellies R6. Men are very apple shaped and if they can't keep their weight down as they age it goes straight to their stomach.

Do married men with kids really hate their lives?

This seems like more of a Reddit question to me.

I think people that are more financially stable and have wives that take care of the kids and home are happier.

*at home

Yes all married men are uniform in thought.

What are dink benefits? And how do you acquire them?

Rose

From my observation, once the woman is done having children, there seems to be this switch where the wife turns into the husbands mother and the husband becomes codependent. He becomes an extra kid. This is when the men start to grow fat and embrace losing their looks because they no longer have to try and think their wife is stuck with them. They become Homer Simpson / Peter Griffin.

But women have their issues too. They’re typically never happy. Women want kids so bad and then realize how much it sucks and grow resentful.

The problem with women is we teach women to want BABIES. We give little girls baby dolls.

We don’t give them angry teenager dolls. Or clueless 18 year-old dolls.

Women don’t think that far ahead when they say they want babies.

Financial commitment is hard nowadays and emotional commitment suffers cause of it. Also from what I’ve noticed they mostly get married and have kids to pass on their genes (or because the kid was an accident..) , society tells them to, they think they’re getting a mommy maid, etc Then their wife usually starts expecting them to do their share of the child rearing and housework, they don’t want to (or worse, they become a man child that she also has to take care of), the wife gets exasperated and resentful and exhausted, and things just go downhill from there.

Also I’ve noticed straight guys are like... willingfully ignorant of why their wives usually become exasperated or straight up ignore her when she tries to make her feelings known, and if he doesn’t try to keep her happy she sure as hell isnt going to try to make him happy.

They’re dying for a bro job

There is a married ex-jock at my work with several kids, and it seems to cause a lot of stress for him. He has one of the best asses I've ever seen. I'd love to give him some relief, but instead I just ogle his khaki-clad bubble butt from afar.

When I see young fathers pushing a stroller at the mall with their wives, the men look like convicts in a chain gang.

I think if they like their jobs, it's fine. Otherwise, the kids are a real burden - you can't take risks or not as easily so it's easy to feel trapped. Because you are trapped! Not really surprising that many become deadbeat dads - and more than few deadbeat moms who turn it over to grandparents if they can. The mothers probably have it worse, unless rich hubby takes care of business.

I have 4 sisters - all straight and married and their husbands are lazy, slovenly pigs who do nothing to help out around the house and expect my sisters to have a job and do cleaning, cooking, childcare etc.

My sisters bitch about it but it seems like that is just acceptable life for straight people. I think it's generally worse for the women than the guys.

Just how dense are you, OP?

Kids are overrated. I'm sure there are many success stories. But devoting 20 years to an ungrateful, disrespectful, entitled, brat, has got to be a major life disappointment.

Why should they hate their lives? The Woman does everything fucking thing.

We had a local air conditioner company commercial a few years ago where the man comes home from work and sees dinner is just sandwiches and starts complaining, and his wife is standing in front of an open refrigerator to keep cool, saying something like "it's hard work raising kids in a house without air conditioning, I'm not going to stand over a hot stove, too!" and the guy THROWS his sandwich down and STORMS OFF, then a spokesperson comes on to say an air conditioner will solve all your problems, then it cuts back to them having a delightful turkey dinner in the middle of August, thanks to air conditioning, which makes the husband happy.

Every time we talk about straight husbands on DL, I think about the angry summer turkey guy and laugh.

How in the fuck would we know OP?

I’m married with a son. I’m very happy. Wouldn’t want to imagine my life any other way.

R27, are you a straight dude or gay dude who purchased a kid?

Straight men are always full of it. Don't take anything they say seriously.

I'm sure there are many hard years that come with child-rearing. But when the straight guys are old and dying at least they have family and people who love them, unlike your average DL poster.

Wonder if r30 will ever tell us what thread he got his ass kicked in?

[quote]And they praise me for being single (they don’t know I have a gay male partner) and traveling the world instead of raising a family.

What happens when you return from your international travels? Do they all stand up and clap in unison?

& how long are you going to be able to keep your "gay male partner" under wraps? Will they still "praise" you and your "lifestyle" after the big reveal? Or they see you two gurls at IKEA picking out a sofa?

R13 I'm assuming DINK is double income, no kids. Unless R5 just made a typo?

Hmmm

Let me ask a bunch of effeminate older gay men whose encounters with straight men are fairly limited, especially straight men in their 30s with young children what straight men think of being dads.

I am sure their opinions will have well thought out responses based on numerous heart to heart conversations with these young straight men and not simply repeat tropes about long deceased fathers and uncles who were miserable having children back in the Eisenhower years.

I don't think they hate their lives. But many probably regret not being prepared for what it entails.

I'm going to make a few really bad generalization that does not apply to all men, but here goes.

I often feel that many straight men get married because they feel that is what they're supposed to do and not what they want to do. They reach a point in their lives where all their friends are either partnered up or married and they feel that they must jump on the bandwagon as well.

Men are simple creatures. You give them a place to watch TV, regular good food, some pussy and a blow job every so often and a decent paycheck that allows them to live and have a few toys, they're fine.

Most men stay married because it's easier and consistent. The hard part is the expectations from the wife and the responsibilities of children.

The fat ones with tinymeat really get hit hard lol….

I'm a straight woman and in a very happy second marriage. My husband I met at 43 and 51 respectively and neither of us have children from our first marriage. We adore each other and know how rare it is to find love at this stage of the game.

I think kids can really ruin a relationship.

All I ask for is loose shoes, a tight pussy, and a warm place to shit

Reddit is filled with women complaining that their husband comes home and starts playing video games immediately, ignoring her and the kids. The women clean the house, take care of the kids, cook for everyone. And some of them have full-time jobs, too. The problem is that many of these men don't bother to help with the kids or house at all. They wait for the wife to ask them to do something specific. If the wife asks multiple times, he sees her as a nag. Some of these men do their tasks half-assed so that the wife will just do it herself. When a man expects his wife to be the manager of the house, she will fall into a "mom" role over him.

TV shows like "Everybody Loves Raymond" normalize this behavior. The husband is lazy and does the bare minimum at home, taking every opportunity to avoid spending time with his wife and kids. The wife is considered a shrew and nag for demanding that the husband do his share.

I don't understand why this still goes on today. Like someone pointed out above, little girls are often conditioned by society to want children and to take care of other people. As gifts, they're given baby dolls and play kitchen sets. There is still strong religious messaging that a wife is supposed to be subservient to her husband. (And incels, misogynists, and Republicans criticize women who want to enjoy a career and equal rights.)

R6 How is it their fault that they are balding?

'All the n-----s want is loose shoes, tight pussies, and a warm place to shit.'

—Earl Butz, former Secretary of Agriculture, who lost his job for that statement

This is why there is increase in lesbianism

I hear a lot of women say this, too.

Our culture makes it seem like having kids is the inevitable next step to being Perfectly Happy and Fulfilled, and that ain't so. It's hard work and it never really ends.

I think everybody who has kids is shocked by how short it falls off their expectations. Some people are resilient and can adjust their expectations and not become bitter, but many can't. And then they like to blame everything in their lives that isn't just the way they imagined it would be on "having had kids."

Most adults nowadays are really kids in adult bodies, is what I'm really saying.

Generalizing here of course but I’ve observed that having a child is not something that even occurs to the man. It’s something that just sort of happens to them, especially once their girlfriend/wife’s biological clock starts ticking.

Most men also don’t have any experience whatsoever dealing with infants/toddlers. Women usually at least have done babysitting and have the positive chemicals associated w pregnancy and childbirth flowing. Most guys i see with newborns at home have the long stare of a shellshocked soldier.

[quote] TV shows like "Everybody Loves Raymond" normalize this behavior.

A TV show from 25 year ago.

Stay Gold, Datalounge.

Stay Gold.

OP, explain why you’re a pathetic closet case.

In the past, people needed offspring to take over family farms and to look after them in old age. Given that there was no real contraception, having children was inevitable for couples.

Now, for the most part, having children is a choice. But unlike a bad purchase or an unsatisfactory marriage or job, it is not a choice that can be easily reversed.

Gay DLers have never known any straight men EVER. So don't even speculate on what they think. It is nunya fucking bizness.

Reminds me of this skit.

Seriously tho, I can’t imagine a more pathetic workplace scenario than listening to straight men whine about the wives and kids while feeling like I couldn’t even *mention* my husband. Get a life OP.

Haha, hearye hear, R51

If they didn't have a wife they'd be rotting in a chair eating microwaved pizza leftovers and watching TV re-runs or playing video games.

[quote] TV shows like "Everybody Loves Raymond" normalize this behavior. The husband is lazy and does the bare minimum at home, taking every opportunity to avoid spending time with his wife and kids. The wife is considered a shrew and nag for demanding that the husband do his share.

The wife on Everybody Loves Raymond didn't work. If someone's not working, I would expect them to take care of the house. It's hardly much to ask. Sorry, I don't relate to what you guys are saying. I know it's a popular trope, but in most houses I've seen, women force their husbands to share in the responsibility. And the ones who don't eventually end up divorced. I think it must be a white American wife thing. Immigrant women don't put up with that shit. They put their husbands in line. Again, it's another story, if the woman is not working.

People have kids because working a full time job isn't stressful enough.

OMG, R42. I actually looked that up to see if you were kidding.

[quote]The wife on Everybody Loves Raymond didn't work. If someone's not working, I would expect them to take care of the house. It's hardly much to ask.

'My Wife Doesn't Work'

I know it's been said already but you'd be surprised how many men would live in filth if it weren't for the women in their lives. I don't think they "expect" women to do all the work I just don't think they care if it gets done at all.

If no one cleans the bathroom for a month oh well, they'll just piss in the kitchen sink or hire some immigrant slave to do the job for them

I can say with great certainty, fathers of daughters do have problems.

This is exactly it, R58. Straight men living alone or with male roommates live in total filth.

It's true that many straight men are not keen on marriage. They don't necessarily want to marry but fear another guy taking their female partner. Marriage sort of secures things. If you observe carefully, something often happens right before the man proposes; she threatens to leave, they have a breakup and then reunite again, another guy starts hanging around, etc.

Most men do not want children, but many women feel a significant biological pull. It's more than just societal pressure and giving girls baby dolls. Women's bodies were built for childbearing whether they choose to do it or not. For many the hormonal and biological impulses are incredibly strong, even if they don't consciously want children. I had a sociology professor tell me once that every pregnancy, even if accidental, is desired by the woman on some level. Brain and body do not always agree.

Marital satisfaction tends to go downhill for both men and women when children are small but then it typically goes back up again later on. As with most things that bring long-term satisfaction, raising a family is not the easiest thing but it might be one of the more rewarding endeavors. I do not have children, which is fine with me, but I've had to put a lot of effort into finding meaning in other areas of life.

Or they don't want to marry but aren't attractive enough to find another woman. Reddit is a pretty good place to delve into the psyches of straight men. Many will admit to having left their women or stay unattached for a polyamorous lifestyle only to later find it "unfulfilling" aka "I didn't score the hot pussy I thought I'd get".

I think a lot of straight men watch tons of porn or too much TV and think it's much easier to score than it is. Gay men can live like that quite successfully however.

61 STFU. Like you know anything at all about straight men. You prolly know more about fucking leprechauns.

My brothers seem to adore their wives and kids, just as my dad did our mom and us. Like my dad, they very much pitch in on work around the house and child rearing, though the moms still bear the brunt of the latter in terms of scheduling and the like.

They each have three kids. One brother wanted another one but his wife put her foot down.

[quote] Most men do not want children, but many women feel a significant biological pull.

Oh please. If you don't think men want biological offspring, you're deluded. They probably want them even more than women, because they're so egotistical. Just because they don't expect to take care of them, doesn't mean they don't want a genetic legacy.

men who are in functional loving marriages aren't bitching and complaining about it so they probably just don't talk about their wife that much in the workplace, you don't hear about it. women whose husbands clean the house aren't complaining about them so you don't hear about it.

Sorry R65 but R61 is right. I'd say half the male population has no desire for kids. I've even known women who didn't have any desire until they started reaching the end of their fertile years and then they went head first into baby fever.

In both cases they were happy they didn't have kids but we're shocked they felt that way at all.

I've read here on DL (I know) that if a man wants to start a family he just marries the woman he's dating at the time. It's not really about love, just that it's time to do it and and she's already there.

It feels masochistic to have children today because it's so expensive. 30 years ago my father supported my mother and 3 kids on one salary and we had a nice house. Now my sister has two kids and lives in an apartment. She's divorced but even when she was married there was no way they could afford a house, and her and her ex are both educated with good jobs.

[quote] I'd say half the male population has no desire for kids. I've even known women who didn't have any desire until they started reaching the end of their fertile years and then they went head first into baby fever.

So what? I know couples where the man wanted to have kids and the woman didn't. Or the man wants to have more kids and the woman is fine with what they have. It's pretty dumb to think men are exempt from feeling a biological pull to reproduce as much as women do. They are human too.

R69 that's not what we're saying. We're saying they don't feel it nearly as much as women. Seeing as how women are the ones who do all the work of bringing kids into the world and raising them, it makes sense.

"The largest, most comprehensive national study of single Americans in 2011 surveyed over 5,000 participants and found 24 percent of single men without children under 18 said they wanted children, compared to 15 percent of women.

A 2013 Associated Press-WE tv poll found more than 8 in 10 fathers surveyed said they always knew they wanted to have children, compared with about 7 in 10 mothers."

r40, it's still going on today not just because of the reasons you listed -- all accurate, of course -- but because straight guys will start screwing other women and feel justified if they decide their wives are "nags" or not doing enough for them. There are a ton of advice columns that say a woman needs to "keep her man," and a lot of societal pressure, too. On top of that, there are plenty of women happy to be the side piece, so it's not like married men, even mediocre men, won't get an offer here and there.

I can't even imagine how daunting it must be to be a married woman with kids who finds out her husband is screwing around, and is faced with the prospect of having to work full time and raise kids full time alone, after spending years making plans to do it with the father around. Then you have to worry that your cheating husband is going to flip out about a divorce and go psycho on you, or sic a bunch of attorneys on you to take your money and your kids, or even just be a deadbeat absent dad who never shows up or pays his share.

I've been really critical of a few women I've known who stayed with asshole, lazy, cheating husbands, but I have to admit that I can kind of understand it, too. At least until the kids are out of the house.

Most of my married friends seem happy and content with their lives and families. Though I’ve seen an uptick in recent years of people I went to school with/grew up with who are divorcing after the last kid is out of the house.

Also the divorce rate among second marriages where one or both parties have minor kids is like over 70%.

I get the need to be attached and in a happy marriage but I have friends in their 30s/40s who are on a 2nd/3rd/4th divorce and I just think maybe they need to rethink being married.

R69, there's a distinction between wanting to have sex and create more people versus actually wanting to nurture and care for those children so they survive into adulthood. That's what we're talking about when we're saying most men don't typically want children. If men could procreate with no consequences or responsibility (thus ensuring the continuation of their lineage) then maybe more men would desire children. Some men are nurturing and actively participate in caring for their children (my own father included) but I wouldn't say they are in the majority.

R71 this does not mean more men want children, it means more single childless men want children. How many men, with or without children, actually wanted them compared to women?

One survey says more single childless men than single childless women want children.

The other survey says more fathers than mothers always knew they wanted children.

I think you have your answer, R75.

R76 then why are so many men disinterested and absent from their kids lives? I think that gives a better answer

Yes, R77, anecdotes are always much more reliable than data.

R78 Yes. It's anecdotal that single mothers vastly outnumber single fathers,

[quote] then why are so many men disinterested and absent from their kids lives?

I don't know. Why do so many women abuse and kill their kids? Who knows why trash people do what they do, but it's not limited to one sex.

It's not limited to one sex,it's just MUCH more common in one than the other

[quote]Yes. It's anecdotal that single mothers vastly outnumber single fathers,

Divorce or never marrying doesn't seem to me to a clear indication of whether or not the couple involved wanted children.

About 1 in 4 US children live in a home without a father, so even if you assume all such fathers are disinterested deadbeats who never wanted kids, it's still a minority.

R82 it's still much greater than the amount of household without a mother.

Look, you can pretend all you want that men are dying to have children but the evidence is all around us. Neglectful, absentee fathers who don't give a shit about their kids abound.

[quote] Look, you can pretend all you want that men are dying to have children but the evidence is all around us. Neglectful, absentee fathers who don't give a shit about their kids abound.

A man can be dying to have kids and still be a crappy, negligent father. You seem hard pressed to discount the fact that men are socialized differently than women. Especially in certain cultures and backgrounds.

"Most men do not want children, but many women feel a significant biological pull. It's more than just societal pressure and giving girls baby dolls. Women's bodies were built for childbearing whether they choose to do it or not. For many the hormonal and biological impulses are incredibly strong, even if they don't consciously want children."

Let me guess, R61; you're a Republican. Like female feral cats, women have a biological pull to have sex at certain points in their cycle. They don't all want to subconsciously want to go through 9 months of uncomfortable pregnancy and possibly get ripped vag to ass when they go though painful hours-long birth. They don't all want to make everything in their lives secondary to the needs of another person.

At soon as a straight man meets a nice girl, his parents will start pressuring him to get married. AND HAVE GRANDKIDS. The need to please one's parents can be incredibly strong, even into adulthood. A lot of times the parents promise to help watch and support their grandkids, but then they just ...don't.

I read a happiness study on The Straights that showed this ranking from happiest to unhappiest: Married men, single women, single men, married women.

Makes perfect sense to me. Married women still are primary caretakers, which sucks.

Parenting is the worst—not because of the kids but because of the fights about raising the kids with your spouse.

hmmm R87 i am competitive over the most petty shit so rn planning how to make myself even happier than a married man...marrying a rich lesbian and not having kids maybe?

frankly my main problems in life are lack of ample money and living space to myself though. not to get fake deep but the luxury of partnership and sex is something that is constantly pushed to the backburner when you struggle with the modern world of hypercapitalism and the way it basically undercuts livable family/community structures. eg my fuckhead rich cunt emigre uncles wont take care of my grandmother so me and my mom despite having work of our own have to do it (another case where straight men fuck women over)

R85, no, I've never voted for a Republican in any election. My comment about biology has absolutely nothing to do with politics or even religion. This is only my opinion, but if you view everything through the lens of politics the resounding truth of the bigger picture might pass you by.

[quote] I’ve noticed straight guys are like... wilfully ignorant of why their wives usually become exasperated or straight up ignore her when she tries to make her feelings known.

Men of any sexuality do not listen properly if at all when women talk. And they'll loudly and obnoxiously and deliberately talk over or around women, constantly. Missing or ignoring points, raising their voices for no reason, laughing and sneering at completely reasonable suggestions, mansplaining and paraphrasing. It's rude and childish not to mention inane, but they all do it by default when talking to women. It's like all they hear when females talk is white noise static, or the sound that the adults in Peanuts make when they talk.

If I followed up on the violent feelings it provokes in me every time this happens (and it happens to women who interact with men everyday, all day), I'd have been in jail years ago and would be there still. And if women treated men this same way in return, the femicide rate would skyrocket. So you see the problem, how unfair it is and how difficult to resolve.

As far as people accusing men of being filthy, it’s very well known that women’s public bathrooms are more disgusting than men’s public bathrooms.

The threat of violence always looms between men and women R90. That's why men can get away with saying shit to women they wouldn't even think about saying to men, lest they want their noses rearranged.

Not in my experience, R91. I cleaned offices for $ in college (90s).

R89, well, your opinion (as you called it) is not everyone else's "truth". As a woman, I can assure you that I know several women who don't want to have children. At all. They might want to have sex with men, but without having kids as a result. (You'd think a gay man could understand that it's possible to want sex that doesn't lead to procreation.)

R94 and I guarantee you that most of those women will at some point, actively try to have kids whether or not they succeed.

R94 cosigned.

As a little girl, when given baby dolls or Easy Bakes even Barbies as presents, I'd leave them in a toybox or give them to a friend. I wanted animals (not always cuddly baby ones, either), instruments and vehicles to play with. Or books. Now that I'm in my 30s, I'm still clicking my tongue and wondering when those hormones or that clock I was warned about will kick in. Because I have never wanted a baby that badly, and still don't. My elder cousins have had babies who are now toddlers, and still I look at them like they're just annoying and noisy and tiring and sticky, and wish they'd not come over the house so often.

If I wanted a selfish needy creature making a mess that I'd have to run after, I'd just get another puppy dog and be blissfully happy--much cheaper and safer than a baby or a man, plus even if you do get fed up of them (and how could you) they don't normally stick around longer than 15-20 years.

Here's R95 telling us that women don't feel naturally complete unless they have kids...in a thread where we're talking about the socialization of girls and women to have babies and take care of their men. Mansplain more to us women about what we really want, R95.

Ironically, in middle-age and on marrying, most men take on the shape and appearance of Coen Bros' The Dude though with none of the cool or the depth. Presumably, a Dudist life is what they all secretly want deep down.

R97 no one is saying women won't feel naturally complete, you're becoming emotional because you don't want kids and you feel like an outsider. The cold hard truth is that most women on planet Earth desire children, 80% of women in fact (higher in other countries)

If you don't want them then great, clearly you aren't emotionally stable enough to have them anyway. But after seeing countless women claim they never want children only to change their minds later on, those of us sane rational people understand that women change their minds quite frequently about kids, which is their right.

R97 knows that when raped, the woman’s body has ways to shut the pregnancy down too. He knows it all.

[quote]then why are so many men disinterested and absent from their kids lives?

There are many ways to answer this:

1) Men, even now, are conditioned to just let the women take care of the kids, while Dad pays for stuff and goes to little league games.

2) The idea of having kids sounds like fun in theory, but in practice, it's exhausting and fucking expensive. Just the cost of daycare is insane. When you have to start sacrificing stuff that you want for this kid, you're not human if it doesn't piss you off. And then when they get out of that cute stage and start thinking for themselves or acting in a way that the parents don't want them to act, then it really starts to spiral.

We're all gay here, I'm sure there's someone on this board who started swishing around the house as a pre-teen and pissed off their dads. Or someone got piercings and a mohawk in the 90s and broke their mother's heart.

I would never say that straight men don't want kids, but wanting them and actually having them are not the same. And after the woman has the baby, who comes to help for a few weeks - her Mom.

3) When the wife becomes mom, the husband has to compete for attention, for meals, and time for fucking. So they just disengage from the situation and go to the den and watch Sports Center.

This is why I secretly side-eye all gay men who want babies.

[quote] When the wife becomes mom, the husband has to compete for attention, for meals, and time for fucking. So they just disengage from the situation and go to the den and watch Sports Center.

This doesn't end when the nest is empty.

My Mom phoned the other day and said the saddest thing, blithely like it didn't even bother or annoy her: "your father is behaving so much better now there's a TV in the bedroom where he can watch the game in peace." 'Behaving better'. As if he's a delinquent toddler or a tantruming young teen, at age 64. My mother has always been set against a TV in the bedroom, thinking it's tacky as well as not social. Suppose he wore her down after so many years.

I asked Mom to expand more on the behaviour in question, and she listed the usual suspects--silent treatment alternated with ranting, weaponised incompetence, empty threads, withholding intimacy or using it sporadically in a manipulative way, generally being a miserable antisocial grump who scares off neighbours, friends etc. Bear in mind this deadbeat doesn't have a good job or an income, either--he does ad hoc construction and yardwork, hasn't gone into a job since 2012. He's not exactly abusive outright, but imo it's borderline. He's definitely working this relationship more to his advantage, likely hoping my Mom will nurse him when/if he falls ill (probably hoping I'll help too--fat fucking chance, he treated me abysmally when I was a teen trapped with him).

Mom doesn't see it that way, though, as she's a carer-type personality by nature (always fussing over coworkers, neighbours, animals etc.), and deeper down believes she's too ugly and fat and old and unimportant to deserve better (she has third child/neglected child syndrome, her mother was a chilly non-maternal social-climber who favoured her older brothers). Brutally-speaking, it's true she's no looker and is something of a boring uncultured middle-aged office Frau, but that doesn't mean she should suffer abuse or be alone. Women flagellate themselves with the most unrealistic standards. I'm confident that with a year or two of patience and social nights out, she could find a homely senior local man who might actually work harder and be somewhat nicer and more respectful to her and people she knows, at least for a while. She's not in the box just yet.

Guess straight people of a certain age and older just give up, and think it's better the devil you know. Maybe the work and the reflection and the change seems worse than enduring an unfair and miserable relationship.

Wait, she won't let him having a fucking tv in the bedroom and you wonder why he acts like a toddler? I wouldn't want to feel like a live-in guest in my own home.

Just because someone disagrees with you on a message board does not mean that they are becoming "emotional" . I don't feel like an "outsider". Not anymore than you should feel like an outsider for being gay.

R102, I'm sorry your mother feels that way about herself. Society judges women's value by their looks, and many women become their own worse critic.

My parents had separate bedrooms when their nest emptied. In fact, one lived upstairs, and the other lived downstairs.

R103 the TV wasn't the point. It was the way my father acted over the whole disagreement. He was a crybully and a passive-aggressive bastard to my mother for months about it.

If he'd wanted to resolve the conflict and also swing his dick around like a faux Alpha, he could have gotten a part-time job or found some of his own money, bought his own damn TV and a small shed for the garden, and made his own den. Or calmly negotiated for some space to watch his games in the main room without noise or company, via compromise and fair discussion. But that would require being an independent thinker and a reasonable person who doesn't need to use emotions as a weapon against his wife to feel like a big man. He's pathetic and the person in the wrong here.

The idea of Golden Girls watching gay men claiming to know fuck all about females or straight men is the biggest fucking joke. You cock suckers know nothing about the world so just sit your lil non-existent asses down. And girls don't respond to these sad lil fuckers.

One does not have to be a straight man or woman to observe how they operate. One just has to be cognizant of prejudices in those observations.

Gay men, for instance, consider women sexual rivals. Hence the numerous critical threads about women on a (mostly) gay site. There is almost always a self serving motive behind gay men's comments.

Conversely, women and straight men consider gay men tertiary characters at best.

A straight man has to lie to everyone- all the time- to get pussy. But he believes it's worth it.

A famous leader once said something like " give a person a family and they won't get out of line so easily"... he believed people would sacrifice themselves but would fall in line to protect their kids..and would keep toeing the line and not leave jobs and follow dreams once they had dependents. That leader was Hitler.

R109

R110 Hi Kanye. Can't stop talking bout your god huh.

They hate it. I think especially if they both had a blast in their 20's, are used to doing what they like, and then opt for kids later in life. By best friend had kids at 35 and 40. At one point in the pandemic, she had a mini breakdown. They are super rich as well, meaning 100M plus. It's very hard to even keep a good nanny. I asked her why they don't just have help 24/7 and most people don't want someone in their house all the time. I think it is becoming more acceptable now for millennial women and men to say that being parents is awful and that they are not cut out for it. Unfortunately the ship has sailed, but as the kids get older, they just get enrolled in activities to keep them out of the house.

So true, R53, and they all think that if they were single they'd be driving a sports car and banging hot 22 year olds despite the fact that they're pot bellied and balding by 30.

Forget the midlife crisis, there is a senior life crisis happening among men in their 60's. My dad had an affair with a 49 year old when he was 63 and then married the whore! My dad ditched his annoying gay son (me), his other loser of son, and his shrill annoying wife. Now he is living his best life with his child free new wife, younger, hotter wife. No sports car needed. Especially if a man has a health scare, there are a lot of men who want to live life to the fuillest in their elderly years and that often does not include the original family that made them so miserable. It's a trend.

Well,when a man has an affair and yet it's the "other woman" who is a whore, what incentive does a man have to be a decent person?

Everyone with kids hates their lives. It's just that women are considered psychopaths if they acknowledge it.

American children, when they grow up, pit their parents in the old folks home. What's the point of having kids if they don't take care of you?

This would never fly in an Asian home.

Tell that to Casey Anthony! Also, this thread is in dire need of commentary from Mrs. Patsy Ramsey, Formerly of Boulder Co. What say you?

My observations are different - most of the men I know love being married, often they reduce their time with their friends and prioritise family. There's something they really enjoy about having a family unit.

Maybe this is something that plagues American men, R120. In Europe there isn't as much career stress and everyone gets ample time for maternity leave, including dads.

My gay-leaning bi closeted starving artiste hipster cousin married a woman and spawned with her because he wanted a better lifestyle on a dual high income (he married his fat Frau boss) and wanted to be taken seriously/seem more respectable to straight peers. That's it. He doesn't love having kids or being with his wife & family, but he'll endure it for the trappings and the acceptance and the financial security.

I'm a straight female and I never had a biological pull to have kids. was an only child and statistically only children have either one kid or no kids. I always said even as a child I didn't want kids and had to fight like hell to get my tubes tied at 25 years old in 1975. planned parenthood sent me to a clinic finally who did it no questions asked. at almost 73 years old I still think it was the best decision I ever made.

Could be, R121! I will add that I'm Australian, so that could count for out here too. All the men at my work with kids have had a good deal of paternity leave and their family responsibilities are respected. Could be!

R123 what was the procedure like, if you don't mind me (30F) asking? Were there any aftereffects? And did you do it to avoid pregnancy alone, or so you didn't have to use birth control and could enjoy casual sex as well?

Really not sure what to do about fertility. While I'm a safe woman to be around kids and can care for or put up with them in small doses, I'm like 90% sure I don't want kids of my own, and with my current and projected future income/social and marital status/family I couldn't afford to give one much of a life anyway. Birth control medication methods have proven to send my hormones crazy and negatively impact my health, so I prefer not to use it. So perhaps tying tubes would be a good option? I have been advised not to do this by some, though, and think instead about using NaturalCycles BC methods and freezing my eggs in case I change my mind in a few years or before I'm 40. As I understand it, though, freezing eggs costs money I don't have. So I'm in a quandary.

Men are so lucky they don't have to think about this or make these decisions.

I'm middle class and I see the same thing too. The pandemic was a nightmare. So many parents had to spend time with their kids and they hated it. Constantly asking about after school activities on Facebook. Some were bold enough to complain on the evening local news.

[QUOTE] I had a sociology professor tell me once that every pregnancy, even if accidental, is desired by the woman on some level.

What an absolute crock of shit.

For R113 ^^^

For R113 @ R126

I wouldn’t say that all the ones I know are miserable but they’re tired all the time. They all have kids under ten though. The women I know with kids are exhausted too.

My kids are young right now and I feel happy, like I am in a life highlight phase currently. It can definitely be tough and tiresome but if I had to do it all over again I would. Parenting isnt for everyone and no one should feel pressured to have kids

As a dude, R123 and R125 those were both really interesting posts to read. I'm really glad you made a decision that ended up being such a happy one for you, R123.

I kinda think personally we should more and more choose to stop having so many children, considering how overpopulated the world is, but that's probably easy for me to say as I don't want them myself. I have nephews and a niece though, and I enjoy spending time with them, but always glad to give 'em back at the end of the day. They really are exhausting, kids.

And believe me, I appreciate it not being something I have to think about, and you have my sympathy. One of the many great things about being a gay dude is it's never going to be a concern unless I really want it to happen.

I think that there should be an equality law for men and women stating that if a women gets knocked up and she wants to keep it, but the husband says he does not, it's the woman's responsibility. Women can snag a man into marriage and a lifetime of payments through many devious ways. Women are just as responsible as men for the results of their (consensual) fucking, so why do women get all the say. Men should be on the hook for 50% of the abortion or Plan B and that's it. Men have no rights in family court. That is why so many men are miserable.

You can't trap a man who uses a condom or has a vasectomy.

R125 I didn't feel it but they sort of put me in a twilight zone. Afterward, I had some heavy bleeding for a day which was to be expected. I was off work for a day. It didn't hurt at all. They put a band on my tubes through my belly button. There is a tiny scar on my belly button. I didn't want to take birth control pills and the other options didn't look good. Abortion was legal by then but it would have still been a hassle and since I didn't want them, I just decided to permanently sterilize myself. If you want to be really turned off by kids there are a lot of websites called mother regret or I wish I never had kids. Reading that will make you sure you don't want them. Again, I know it was the best decision I ever made and have never regretted it.

Drake famously puts hot sauce in his used condoms and then throws them in the trash to see which ho might try something.

Sometimes you just gotta make a change.

R134 yes exactly! Perhaps if men took more initial responsibility for their sexual behaviour & habits, their choices of partner, and for individual birth control (I.e. actually using it themselves instead of forcing every women to), then they’d get more of a say.

Just serially sticking your cock in multiple fertile younger women unprotected or without a vasectomy, then acting surprised pikachu’d when one of those women gets preggers and wants to keep it? No sympathy from me.

Either fuck menopausal MILFs only, get snipped and use condoms every time, or jerk off more often and be less of a whore. Those are the choices, if a man doesn’t want to be accountable and support the life he indiscriminately created because he needed to nut raw inside a girl in her twenties or thirties that bad.

Or just start fucking and breeding tight man bussy. Better feel and no chances of pregnancy.

The term bussy needs to die in a grease fire.

Yes, OP, your father hated his life. The moment you and/or any siblings were born, he raised a fist to the heavens and cursed the gods lamenting why they had forsaken him.

We are all the worst nightmares of our fathers and have been since the moment our mothers announced their pregnancies.

OP Have you ever meet any children?

^children are sticky and full of lies

R143 And germs.

My father has always loved having two sons. It wasn't an issue for him raising kids.

So many defensive fraus in this thread - I can smell the catpiss and misery from here,. Basically, we have the usual interlopers invading gay spaces: dumpy, chubby, unfuckable cubefraus, perennial rejects wallowing in desperation desperately sour-graping themselves with delusions that they’re much better off without kids and families. No, cunt, this gay man is not your pet to commiserate with and dump your problems. Fuck off to tumblr or whatever you menopausal holes.

Most gay men die without kids or families so that makes gay men unfuckable fraus. Kindred spirits!

[quote]Most gay men die without kids or families so that makes gay men [bold]unfuckable[/bold] fraus.

Wrong. Men just can't get pregnant. If men could get pregnant, gay men would have punch card perks for their local abortion clinics.

Get 10 abortions and the 11th one is free!

I think stupid men with kids are unhappy. Stupid, disengaged straight men with kids are unhappy. Stupid straight men who breed indiscriminately with no notion of the future are unhappy.

R148

[quote]Men just can't get pregnant.

Don’t you know that trans people are the biggest victims of the overturning of Roe v Wade? Even more than women?

R150 Birthing people!

[quote]I often feel that many straight men get married because they feel that is what they're supposed to do and not what they want to do. They reach a point in their lives where all their friends are either partnered up or married and they feel that they must jump on the bandwagon as well.

This seems to hold true for a lot of Gen Xers and Millennials; however, I've observed a lot of straight male Gen Zers who LOVE being married and being dads.

I know and interact with a lot of Gen Z straight men in my work and family, and I was a little shocked that the majority of them couldn't wait to settle down and have kids. They were practically male fraus.

I think there is a distinct generational shift at play here, but why, I don't know.

R152 Aren’t the oldest Gen Zs about 25? They’re already having kids (on purpose)?

R152 I think a lot of young people think that way. Then they start to get older and sometimes those things start to get further.

I remember when I was 18 I thought I was going to be married with adopted kids by 30. I’m 35 and maybe I’ll be married with adopted kids by 50.

I don't know how anyone wants to bring kids into the world. Kids born today are going to have a very hard or even short life. Climate change, overcrowding, overpopulation, and more and more competition with fewer and fewer avenues to be successful. Another reason I'm happy I didn't have kids. I would be worried about their future if I had grandkids.

^That's what I think too. I mean, I'm not that confident in the future for people my age (40) let alone kids being born now.

R153 Exactly! How many Gen Zs are even parents yet??

R146 is right. Every time anyone criticises women the cat ladies come out in force. Contrary to what’s been said gay men don’t see women as sexual competition and we interact with straight men all the time.

This whole women do all the housework fails to take into account women are more likely to work part time and less likely to do household and car maintenance, and just how hard is it to load a dishwasher or washing machine ?

Honestly, almost every married man with kids I know LOVES their kids, even the men who didn’t originally want kids.

The few who I observed to be miserable not only did not stick around, they completely dropped the ball on their kids as well.

R158 according to the bureau of labor statistics in 2019 23% of women worked part time.

Car and house maintenance takes maybe 5-10 hours a week, things like oil changes every few months, maybe washing the car, mowing the lawn in the summer, shoveling driveways in winter, the odd house repair that isn't done by a hired tradesman (unless the man is particularly handy or productive, unlikely in this day and age).

Cooking a meal usually takes an hour a day minimum, not including lunch or breakfast, so probably two hours a day devoted to cooking all meals on weekdays. General housecleaning like wiping down counters, sweeping floors, emptying trash, loading the dishwasher, straightening up takes an hour or two a day. More intensive cleaning like washing bathrooms, mopping floors, vacuuming adds another 5 hours a week, give or take. If you include children in these scenarios the household labor doubles.

[quote] I know this will not be a popular opinion but I think women have it worse in marriage.

That's why over 70% of divorces are initiated by women. My friend used to do everything around the house, while holding a full-time job. Her husband thought the gravy train would last forever, until one day, ten years into their marriage, she handed him the divorce papers. This geek didn't know what hit him.😁

R7 Is he hot? You should offer him a blowjob to relieve his stress. You know he is not getting any at home with a young child.

R5 I have the same impression. It's about 50:50.i know people who are very happily married and many who are miserable at heart, sometimes also because they want to make this monogamy thing work and their world is destroyed when their wife cheats in them. Or they are in the cycle of finding a job for to be able to afford a house for the kids. Then you are in debt and really need the job for which you gave up your artiatic aspirations. Then you need a car to drive you to the job you don't like to pay for the house an hour away from town, then it doesn't work out so well with your wife anymore and you end up slaving your life away to pay for shit you don't want and supporting children you hardly ever see.

I'm a lesbian who never had the desire to have kids. I've worked in fields dominated by straight men my entire life. I hear men ALL the time complaining about their wives and kids. The men open up to me because I'm a woman who can sort of relate to them. Of course, more than one has "fallen" for me because they are surprised at how they can open up with a woman in a way that they can't with their wives.

Straight men are true assholes. They want their wives to sexually perform like porn stars and when they don't, they look elsewhere. They are damaged individuals who mostly hate women. It's rare to find ones that want to spend time with their kids. One guy I work with has 4 kids and he is a work aholic because it helps him to avoid going home to the chaos that is his life. I also hear enough about and from their wives to know that they are pretty much assholes too.

Having kids was never something I wanted. I know several lesbian couples who had kids and they seem happy. I knew from a young age that I never wanted them because I have two younger brothers that I helped raise and it SUCKED.

I enjoy my quiet, peaceful, single life currently. About to go play a video game and I'm 53. And there's no one around to yell at me to stop and clean the house.

Of course a straight man can open up with a lez girl. You both love pussy and want to be cradle to crave with a girl.

Sorry, OP, the answer is NO.

{quote]Of course a straight man can open up with a lez girl

GIRL?

This sounds like a Chris Watts question.

Yes, from my experience. Many married guys have told me, especially in my 20s, and now into my 30s that getting married is overrated. However, they say that the kids are the fun part. It's the wife that gets boring and tedious. They look at how I'm still single and envy it.

If I had a teenaged son, I'd spend a lot of time warning him how his life would be ruined if he got some girl pregnant who decided to keep the baby. Women can choose to be a parent at any point, from conception to birth and beyond, when they can decide to put a baby up for adoption. A father has no choice about supporting his offspring for 18 years.

[quote] I had a sociology professor tell me once that every pregnancy, even if accidental, is desired by the woman on some level.

Tell that to the rape victim who becomes pregnant.

Working on various film projects as a producer and actor means I spend considerable time away from home. Thank god, I still have enough money to maintain a city apartment where I can work and entertain in peace.

I don't hate my life. If you hate yours, it's your problem pal.

R1 You know what its sad, but you may be on to something. Humanity literally cannot evolve with children. I know some married couples with children that are super happy; interesting, there all creative types. But the ones I know who are miserable all have kids and are more traditional acting, even if there liberal. Its interesting. What does this all mean.

R173 That they had children because it was what society expected of them as opposed what they truly wanted and they're conformists? I've always thought that of my dad.

My brother loves his wife and kids, pulls his weight around the house but I think he's a rarity. Our father is still at 79 a workaholic who has said in the past he'd be much more successful if he hadn't married and had kids. He's always the first to believe anything bad about my siblings and I and our grandmother said he was openly jealous of the attention our mother paid to us as babies. He bags us out to anyone who will listen.

Our mother always had to do everything and still does. When they're planning getting something done to the house that costs money, he delays and delays then gets it done quickly and badly when she's in hospital. He can't even look after her when she's sick at home. If she's bed-bound, he won't check in on her, get her a glass of water or food. He just gets in a foul mood because he "loves" her so much.

As kids , we'd run away and hide in neighbours' trees when she had migraines because he'd tear into us. And before we learnt to run away, she'd be lying in bed sick and vomiting, getting distressed because he'd be telling us off. She should have left him years ago. Their marriage is only a "success" because she doesn't call him on his shit.

At a reunion, an old friend from high school bagged his wife out and said she tricked him into having "too many" children. For someone who started having sex at 14, he was pretty stupid after the first one or two not to talk contraception. He may not really feel that way as he wasn't saying it only for my benefit. He was chasing an old crush at the reunion and looked like his heart got ripped out when she left with another guy. It makes me think a lot of guys saying stuff like this are just trying to score with other women. Although happy in his own marriage, my brother swears most married people he knows are unhappy with their partners and, men particularly, waiting for someone else to come along until they end the marriage. My own parents put me off any version of marriage and kids, but they made my brother want a family of his own where the husband/father put in an effort.

r175, please use a different verb than "bagged." You type like a 10 year old.

Thanks, cunt at r175. Is castigated better you? Please block me as I've now blocked you.As a ten year old, I can't take you bagging me out.

[quote]My brother loves his wife and kids, pulls his weight around the house but I think he's a rarity.

My dad, each of my five brothers, six male cousins and assorted straight male friends do the same, so it can't be that rare. One friend does all the cooking and cleaning in addition to bringing home all the money, his wife focuses on all the kid stuff (though he coaches Little League, too).

I remember years ago my grandpa (my mom's dad) once chiding my dad for doing the dishes after a get together. "That's woman's work!" My dad set him straight.

178 Sure, Jan. Nice fairytale. Keep watching more Golden Girls and making up more stupid stories, lady.

If you asked DLers about the family lives of cats you'd get more accurate responses. Because DLers are far more familiar with house cats than they are with straight men.

[quote]I had a sociology professor tell me once that every pregnancy, even if accidental, is desired by the woman on some level.

I don't know if that's true, but I wouldn't totally dismiss it. A woman becomes pregnant and certain biological and hormonal things begin happening that may automatically bond the woman to the fetus. I went down a pregnancy rabbit hole recently, it's amazing what the woman's body does to make life happen.

Sorry, R179, but I have to say I've the same experiences with the men in my family and friendship group as R178. Although even my grandfathers were good around the house. There's a tendency when people grow up with bad experiences to think those experiences are universal when they're not.

I think married men hate their wives more than they hate their children or lives. I love listening to straight men, young and old, talk about women, dating, and marriage in the locker room at the gym. I'm not speaking on behalf of straight men, but women seem to be a necessary annoyance to most. Dating, marriage, dealing with women seems to be a hassle and it seems like many men prefer the company of men vs. women (and not in a sexy, DL fantasy fiction bromance kind of way).

My favorite quote by 2 elderly men talking:

"The easiest way to fuck up a business deal is to have your wife involved"

I do think, from what I have heard, that many straight men would actually quite like to live with another straight man, it's just the sex part that they would miss.

But maybe for those who really feel like that, what they are feeling is a kind of nostalgia for their youth with the boys? Grass is always greener type stuff?

These stories are always the same. It's always someone's brother or brother-in-law. Hardly a representative sample of straight men across the board.

R183, you "think"?

No!

Them wimmin are completely disinterested in sex. That's what I believe and nothing and nobody will ever change my mind. If that weren't the case, then I don't know why they NEVER make the first move on a guy, why they falsely accuse them of rape so often and why they generally never comment on a hot guy in public. Men may only get married because they want a live-in maid, but them wimmin only do because they want a baby (not a son/daughter, mind you, but a baby!). The only wimmin who have any remote interest in sex are pornstars. No wonder men lose interest

[quote] wimmin are completely disinterested in sex. That's what I believe and nothing and nobody will ever change my mind. If that weren't the case, then I don't know why they NEVER make the first move on a guy, why they falsely accuse them of rape so often and why they generally never comment on a hot guy in public.

Risk of violence and assault. That's literally the only fucking reason. It's the cruel hysterical irony that if men stopped beating and raping and murdering women so much, they'd get way more of the open clear-cut NSA sexual treatment and play and attention that they'd prefer. The shitty behaviour and lack of accountability shown by men across recorded time, combined with the size/strength/aggression differential between the sexes, is what has forced women to go underground with their desires so they can STAY THE FUCK ALIVE. If you had ever listened in on women in private or read their diaries/blogs/fanfics, you'd see that their lusts are no less intense or superficial or consistent than that of men--they just do not have the freedom or safety to act on them in public (notice only very traumatised or mentally ill women with recklessness as to whether they live or die are nymphomaniacs? Yeah, that's why.)

[quote] It seems like many men prefer the company of men vs. women (and not in a sexy, DL fantasy fiction bromance kind of way).

No no, that's the best kind....

r189 I've alread said a million times that STRAIGHT FRAUS DO NOT BELONG ON THIS MOTHERFUCKING FORUM! Back to the kitchen!

R146, you sound like you're projecting. Bizarre level of anger for women on a thread about straight men.

An awful lot of parents don't put the work in when it comes to kids and then complain their life is a misery. It's like owning a dog, not training it and then complaining that it destroys everything and pees on your wallpaper.

Do your fucking job, parents! You owe it to society.

R189 Not to mention what you're saying doesn't make any sense, you triggered frau: if a woman WANTS to have sex with a guy, she won't have to worry about him raping her. How can you rape someone who WANTS to fuck you? It's them wimmin being frigid by nature 🙄

NateCockvitch you are delusional. Pornstar women are not the only women who want sex. You are sexist and a bit coo-coo.

R195 Back to doing the laundry, unfuckable frau! And quit butchering my name cuz you ain't funny. I'm Nate CrankyBitch

R196, I'm not a frau but you are utterly insane. Even longing for true love I have gotten more hot dick than you'd ever have, crazy son of a gun.

R196 The rubber ones don't count 🖕

[quote] if a woman WANTS to have sex with a guy, she won't have to worry about him raping her. How can you rape someone who WANTS to fuck you?

Was humouring you and handwaving you until you said this. That is criminal, deranged and evil to say.

Any adult can rape. For any reason. In any sexual situation. If they're strong or slimy enough and they care little enough. It doesn't matter about general feeling of desire from the victim to the aggressor--if the victim suddenly says no or rejects a touch or doesn't want to fuck or changes their mind IN THE MOMENT or ANY TIME DURING, and the aggressor carries on touching or fucking them anyway, it's sexual assault, end of. It's about not caring what the other person wants then and there, and then proceeding to ignore and disrespect it so that they are violated and feel dehumanised, like nothing more than slab of meat or a doll. That is how rape works and what it is, since you sadly needed it spelling out.

It happens to gay men too, sadly all too often, before you start slinging more misogyny around--in fact, I'll wager a good percentage of men posting here have experienced assault/rape or otherwise near misses that could have gone far worse for them. Too many people--most of them men, of all sexual orientations, statistically--have this problem where they don't understand consent or checking in or respecting what a partner wants across the entire duration of sexual encounters.

R189 Ain't even gonna read that testament. You bore me, frau, and are just proving to be a frigid bitch like all them wimmin. With this mindset, no wonder men don't wanna fuck you

Is this seacow? Who is this dirtbag?

R189 Someone overthinking sex this much can't possibly be into it. But that doesn't surprise me: you're a wimmin, so you despise it. Give your men to me, I sure would know how to please them. Daily 😏

R189/200 well baby that suits me down to ground, I prefer women in and out of bed anyway (and enjoy them sexually in a very hot and non-frigid way, thanks for asking ;) ) And better yet, I'm not only a sapphic delight but also generous and magnanimous so you're welcome to the dozens of men who hit on me with a frequency because of my big naturals!!!

Statistically, men are happier than women after marriage. It's divorce that destroys them, usually with a tragic ending per CDC statistics. This is likely due to the fact that a common byproduct of divorce is men being isolated from their children. It's not the separation from their wife that hurts that much, it's the separation from their kids.

I just can’t fathom wanting to bring a child into this world. What a huge and permanent responsibility- financial, energy, etc, with no guarantee that the kid will love you and then take care of you when the time comes. But my perspective is skewed by the fact that I help take care of my two sick parents (who I didn’t choose), so choosing this lifestyle is absolutely beyond comprehension.

My sister works at an old folks home - hardly anyone's kids come and visit them. That whole idea of having kids to look after you in old age is a con.

R206 or it's more likely that kids who will put their parents in an old folks home generally don't care about their parents.

I've noticed kids who care will move an elderly parent into their home. My mom's Jehovah's Witness neighbors are a good example. They even installed a wheelchair ramp.

People who work can’t leave an elderly parent who needs help alone at home all day. Those God-botherers probably have some wimmin folks on home duties. A lot of people would love to have their parents in their homes.

r206 You never know what those people's parents did to them. Just because they're elderly doesn't mean they didn't mess their kids up when they were young and spry. Even if the neurodegenerative disease has now wiped their memory of how awful they were as parents.

r206 Those are the only 2 reasons people even have kids these days (if they do, which I see that many opt out of): because all my friends my age are doing it or because I want someone to take care of me when I'm old. Stupid breeders, the most selfish bunch on the planet!

I think some of this might apply to wasp culture or new England culture. Minority culture views these things way different. Family is very important and people don't just put their aging parents in a home. Minorities also view having kids as a rite of passage and a religious thing, not so much having people to look after you in old age.

r171, I don't think you understood the comment around biology and the next sentence on how brain and body don't always agree. The body has an intelligence and objective of it's own, even thought a woman might not intellectually or emotionally agree. That's how unwanted pregnancies occur; the body is in favor but the mind objects. This ensures that we continue on but doesn't necessarily make everyone happy. I'm not offering any opinion on how these matters are handled. Maybe you didn't read or didn't understand but hope that helps clarify.

We used to cover this in high school; hormones, chromosomes, reproductive organs, and how these physical differences influenced different behaviors in men and women. Clearly this is no longer taught. But fear not, books still exist. Take a look, it's in a book.

Oh lordy, r212. Unwanted pregnancies occur when couples don't use birth control. It's not because the body just decides it wants to get pregnant.

Maybe you need to go back to high school.

[quote]Back to doing the laundry, unfuckable frau!

[quote]You bore me, frau, and are just proving to be a frigid bitch like all them wimmin.

I SMELL DESPERATE INCEL INVASION

I don't think that's what he was saying R213. I think he's saying that there is, sometimes, a mind/body conflict. That sometimes unintended pregnancies happen and while the woman may not want the pregnancy/baby, her body is preparing itself for the pregnancy and the baby. The two things are in conflict.

It's also probably why they used to recommend (not sure if they still do) that mothers who are giving up their babies for adoption not see the babies. There is an incredible bond between a mother and baby, and a lot of that is biology and basic instinct so that life may continue.

There once was a theory that newborns look like the father, so that the father wouldn't reject. It's been disproven, but a lot of people still believe it.

R213 I stopped reading his word salad after the 3rd sentence.

The point is that the female human body (like the male human body) try to push people into procreating, whether those people want to or not. Women are at their horniest when they're most fertile, and men are always ready to go whenever the female gives them the signal.

Just because a woman is horny doesn't mean she wants a baby. Often, she just wants to have sex. Of course, sex can and will lead to pregnancy because of the way the body works. When a feral cat comes into heat, is she thinking, "I want to get birth 6 kittens that will all be dead in two years due to disease, human carelessness, and violence from humans and other animals." No. Fortunately humans have tools to prevent pregnancy, but they're not 100 percent effective. And sometimes hormones and alcohol impact our judgement and we forgo birth control methods.

Whoever is saying that all women walk around wanting babies to be complete has been brainwashed by the ass-backwards Christian philosophy that women's only purpose is to serve a man and birth his children, and any woman who wants sex without getting pregnant is a w****. (What does that book say about gay men? So, why judge sex-positive childfree women according to that book?)

R217, very well stated.

Women are at their horniest when they're most fertile, and men are always ready to go whenever the female gives them the signal.

These idiots think women want to have a baby and that's what making them horny. No dummies, women are reacting to their bodies wanting to experience sexual pleasure when their most fertile. Your short essay is spot on. The boneheads misinterpret science and want to women what they really want.

So many dried out catpiss huffing fraus on this thread. Why do we tolerate these interlopers in a gay man’s space and actively engage with their bitter disappointment of being fat and unfuckable? Why? Fuck off to Reddit, fish. We need you like a hen needs a flag.

R219, lol. I'm not a fish. You are messed up.

they hate their cunting wives

I'm a lesbian. Are you saying every time I get sexually aroused it's because I want to make a baby with another woman? That's not possible and well, I'm sexually aroused a lot. Hell I'm even in menopause and I get sexually aroused. I can't get pregnant ever now and yet, still want sex.

r219 Reddit is the place where people be like "Oh mah Gahhhhh, I listened to this 1-minute subliminal twice a day for a week and went from 5'7' to 5'11'"

Tell us more about the sex life of a horny menopausal lesbian, R222 (seriously). Gay guy here, so I literally can't imagine, but I'm geniunely curious.

R222 please ignore R224

Speaking for the rest of us

R219 and R146 has STATED her boundaries! Twice! She's telling you now so she doesn't have to tell you then.

R212 Desire and a biological imperative are not one and the same.

Have you never heard married middle-aged men bitch on and on about the most banal shit? They hate everything lowkey, not just their wives or kids.

It always becomes an issue when the women they're fucking turn into their wives and then their mothers. It always happens. The wife always treats the guy like a child.

R229 is because they act like children. They expect their wives to wait on them hand and foot. mostly they are worse than children. Maybe if they would grow up and act like adults instead of teenagers playing video games or watching porn they wouldn't be treated like children.

My guess is R230 is a woman.

Yep R231` I am a woman. That is exactly what my dad was like, consequently, I didn't get married, just had long-term lovers.

R231, they're still not going to look to YOU.

[quote]I always hear married guys at work saying “don’t get married, don’t have kids.”

I've had female coworkers and friends also tell me this.

R219, straight women who don't want kids are unfuckable? They probably get more dick than you do. Is that why you hate them so much?

I worked with a straight man who got married because of an oops baby. About a year after the baby was born, he complained to me that his wife's body hadn't gone back to it's pre-body form and that her breasts were saggier. Somehow he hadn't noticed that he himself had gained about 40 pounds over that year. Except he didn't have the excuse of eating for two. In spite of his disdain for her, they kept having babies. He also complained about her personality. (Which was funny because I was the only person at our company that got along with this man.) They moved into her parents' home where they lived rent free and enjoyed free childcare. And he complained about that, too. He adored his kids and seemed to tolerate his wife and inlaws because he needed someone to take care of his kids while he pursued his first love, money.

Statistically married men are the happiest and married women are the unhappiest.

Geez, so many grammar mistakes on here! Your instead of you're, it's instead of its, etc. Did you even attend kindergarten?

R230, I kinda hate this idea that some people have that to grow up means you can't indulge in pleasurable pursuits anymore. Why can't adults play video games if they want? Who decides what is a mature adult past time and one that is no longer allowed once you hit, what 18, 21? If they're doing things like this and abrogating all responsibilities then I would agree there is a problem there that the couple should talk about, but if a guy takes a little of his free time to enjoy playing the games he enjoyed as a teen, or rubbing one out, or hell anything that makes life just a little bit more bearable, then why not? Women have their own enjoyable hobbies too that they should also be encouraged to do.

We're not here for a long time and life can often be unpleasant. Let's take our enjoyment when we can.

It's one of the many benefits of being a gay man - your partner and other gay men don't generally tell you you need to "grow up".

Who are we kidding. Menopausal women are all dried up. See Emmanel Macron's "wife."

A woman who doesn't want kids can drown in dick if she wants.

R240 and gay men are flaccid and prolapsed.

r242 Ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww

R239 they are abrogating. Couples do talk about it and many posters have described how men find ways to not hold up their end of the bargain. You think we don't have married relatives or friends? Bottom line is most straight men do not care about keeping a home and despite divorce level arguments about it, they still refuse to do household chores.

Gay men, however, care very much about home keeping and many find it hard to believe that straight men don't. Then again, gay men don't spend much time with straight men outside of work settings.

r330, I'm a 53 year old woman who plays video games and sometimes watches porn. Do you know who the biggest consumers of video games are? It's adults in their 40's-60's...not kids. Adults. It's because adults can afford the consoles and the games. Video gaming is a reliever of stress and an escapism from the world. I play about an hour a night during the week and on the weekends, I'll stay up late playing for 3 hours sometimes. I love games and I see them as so much more engaging than TV or Films or sports (I rarely watch any of these). Instead, I'm marveling at the beauty and creativity of the games and enjoying having my mind challenged. Sometimes, I play with friends who live in other states who are also close to my age. We share stories of our daily lives and laugh our asses off while playing. During the worst of the pandemic, a friend of mine who moved far away and I started playing a game called, Sea of Thieves. We were pirates and could escape from the monotony of the silent days and nights. We became Pirate Legends together and I became so much closer to my friend while doing it.

I also own a Virtual Reality headset. Now that thing saved my life during Covid. I could step completely into a beautiful Virtual world and meditate or I could take boxing lessons or even just hang out in an app called Big Screen with other grown ADULTS in virtual karaoke bars or movie theaters. I'd sing my head off or even go to virtual miniature golfing with friends where it was almost as if they were right there with me. It saved me from being disconnected from people during a time in which we were not allowed to even be in the same rooms as others.

So, when women complain about their men "playing video games" I shake my head because I'm so embarrassed for them. They have zero clue as to what gaming has become and still believe that only children should play them. I've worked with many a man who listens to me talk about the games I'm playing and says, "Man, I miss playing games. My wife won't let me." And I hate those wives because they have tried to kill that creative, adventurous, fun loving spirit that we all have inside us. That makes them almost evil in my book.

Also, everyone watches porn. I know I do. You should check some out sometime. You might enjoy it. I'd recommend a subscription to Deeper. It might help you pull that stick out of your ass...or put it back in if you discover you enjoy that kind of thing.

R245 now here's an unfuckable woman folks.

R245 no idea how anyone can stomach to view or engage with p0rn knowing what we know about the industry today. To me it’s like gambling—the activity itself isn’t wrong or morally bankrupt (or, at least it shouldn’t be viewed as such, and Bible bashers need to chill about that), however the mega corporate socially-engineered gl0balised industry that’s grown around it like malignant cancer on our humanity is actually pure unconscionable evil.

[quote] Also, everyone watches porn. I know I do. You should check some out sometime.

Most ‘everyone’ lies, cheats, steals, pollutes etc. unthinkingly. Doesn’t make it a highly ethical choice, or an action that is compassionate to other fellow humans & beings in our world.

And again, I don’t mean that in a religious, ‘emotionless non-matrimonial masturbation for pleasure is a siiiiiiin’ way, but rather that p0rn of the conventional and straight variety—the juggernaut category on which the industry is built—uses s lave lab0ur and traff!cked people to essentially simulate rape. That’s it. Drugged and likely kidnapped or economically hostaged people (many of them women from vulnerable backgrounds of addiction and abuse, some of them minors or barely leg al) forced into performing painful, risky, injurious and degrading sex, so that they can eat and keep a roof over their heads and maybe get their passports back. That’s what you’re watching (plus stealing, if you don’t pay) online to get off.

But I hear you cry, you’re actually not watching new studio het content, and only sticking to amateur/cams/gay/vintage p0rn. Because you’re better. Well, guess what, if you’re watching on the internet or P2P rather than throwing on a DVD or 30-year old VHS or cracking an old magazine, then sorry to say you’re still tacitly supporting the platforms who host these creators & companies who deal in the vile criminal abusive sort of content. Gay men and all women are hurt and exploited in this meatgrinder system, and no one seems to care.

Not to mention, on the other end of the creator-performer-consumer chain, that the screening of such content to impressionable younger or more vulnerable minds can easily trigger addiction, and can ruin nascent sex lives before they even start (with body image issues, unrealistic expectations, kink rabbitholing). The addiction is a very real and sad thing.

So yeah, you go on ahead and enjoy that Deeper video, without giving a single thought to what very human horrors took place to get it on your screen in HD for less than the price of a Starbucks (incidentally, also an exploitative megacorp dealing in an addictive and low-quality product that’s bad for you).

[quote]Bottom line is most straight men do not care about keeping a home and despite divorce level arguments about it, they still refuse to do household chores.

[quote]Gay men, however, care very much about home keeping and many find it hard to believe that straight men don't. Then again, gay men don't spend much time with straight men outside of work settings.

These are generalisations that don't ring true to me as a man and a gay man at all. Some gay men care about keeping house and others don't. We aren't all the same. Plenty of straight men I know in life are very clean and do their share of chores. One guy I remember would always start washing up at parties even. In my experience, and it is only MY life experience, women I know are dirtier and less likely to keep a place keen than their boyfriends/husbands.

Also, I spend a lot of time with straight men outside of work.

I found a lot of your assertions to be very stereotypical and have no basis what I've experienced as a man and a gay man. None of us can be put into these little boxes.

I've known house-proud straight guys and slobtastic gay guys. I don't think cleanliness or tidiness is invariably a sex-based thing.

Josh Homme played a slovenly, bro-ey, masc gay guy with a boyfriend who was the same on Portlandia. But idk how common or true to life that type of gay man is.

Yes. The one who lives in my basement was miserable until I abd…rescued him.

[quote]So many dried out catpiss huffing fraus on this thread.

Don't feed the incel

R247 is Shelley Lubben’s ghost.

r247 you have no clue what you're talking about. I've worked in the porn industry for 25 years as an editor and I've never once met someone who was trafficked. In fact, ALL the women who do porn have to show their identifications ON CAMERA and sign paperwork saying what they consent to. Mainstream porn industries are highly regulated and keep their records in order because of Traci Lords. I'm not saying that there aren't porn "producers" who are sleaze, but in my experience they are few and far between.

A company like Deeper absolutely falls into the category of being on the up and up. I know this because I've worked for them. In fact, the adult industry gave me a job as a female editor before any mainstream company ever did. And there are far more female directors working in Adult than in Hollywood and that's saying a lot. The claim that human trafficking is something that is common in Adult is a myth. The women I've known who perform all do it willingly. I've never once edited a scene where a girl was told she HAD to do something. In fact, we had one director a long time ago who started trying to coerce the girls into doing more stuff than they agreed to and he was fired immediately.

And women absolutely watch porn and hopefully feel no guilt about it. I have had a lot of women tell me they admire my work and a lot of lesbians who enjoyed the sex toy I invented.

Thanks R254, that's interesting and clarifies the topic. You clearly have diligence in your work.

However, you're missing the point. Many female participants and consumers of p0rn either don't know or won't admit the inherent issues, sometimes even going so far as to lie/misreport to keep jobs or to maintain integrity that is being eroded day-by-day in such work. The problems are deeply troubling from a sociopolitical standpoint, and the luxury of thinking about that critically is arguably only afforded to those who don't have to work in such industries.

Sex as a meaningful and natural emotional exchange between humans without the disempowering interpolation of commerce is neglected completely in the phrase 'sex work'. Sex in this case becomes a service. Women are encouraged to perform it as an automaton or a prop, and to treat it the same as any other service job. This sex is to be performed, not participated in, which causes emotional and psychological damage to the performer. The female stars must remove and desensitize themselves from the experience entirely. Degrading oneself is couched as empowering, because it leads to money, and money is power in our world. And the woman in question has decided the cost of her body and performance with it (well, not even her in many cases), and she becomes commodified, at the cost of her psyche and her opportunity to connect with other humans in a framework beyond hypercapitalist exploitation in an accelerated culture (a culture that isn't slowing down for bodies that age naturally or that sustain somatic wounds). The director tells her that a shoot is all about her and her empowerment, but it isn’t, because being able to pay for complete access to someone’s body is the only signifier of true power in this system of commodified sex, perhaps on an entirely different level to selling it. And we as a society don’t like talking about that.

R254 From time to time I encounter women like R247 who spout these crazy stories about how most porn stars and prostitutes are trafficked. For whatever reason this myth persists.

All I know as a gay man is that I still watch straight porn cause of the gangbangs. Those lucky whores seem to be having the time of their life. Then again I pretty much only watch porn nowadays after I relapse.

R255 STFU, asshole. Go watch Avatar 2 where the main character Neytiri DIES.

People who are unhappily married should either get counseling or get divorced, not run around lecturing single people on the horrors of starting a family.

"I kinda hate this idea that some people have that to grow up means you can't indulge in pleasurable pursuits anymore. Why can't adults play video games if they want?"

Because if you're a parent in a nuclear family, and your children are at an age when someone has to watch them every waking second or they will self-destruct, then the person who is taking a couple of hours to play video games is dumping all the work of parenting onto their spouse for that period of time. Same if you take a couple of hours to enjoy life while your partner is doing the housework or errands, they resent the fact that you aren't helping to get the gruntwork over and done with so you can both relax for a while, and the resentment builds up if the behavior continues.

And that's a problem built into the life of a Nuclear Family, the fact that there are only two people to mind children that need minding 24/7. Cultures where life is lived in an extended family have a network of people who can be trusted to watch the kids and give the parents a break so they can play a little, but if there are only two parents and getting someone else to mind the kids is prohibitively expensive, then the parents have to be on watchful parent duty ALL the time. And if one partner doesn't do half the work, then other partner is stuck with more than half, and never gets a chance to rest or play, and knows who to blame for their constant exhaustion, and eventually they decide that even the nightmare of single parenting is better than putting up with a spouse who just sits around making more work necessary...

Maybe the women in mainstream porn aren't trafficked, but I've seen enough porn to know that many porn actresses are drunk or high or otherwise disassociating while on screen. And don't try to tell me they aren't, they aren't good enough actresses to pretend to be out of it.

Idk if they are "trafficked", but porn is a pretty terrible industry and we're worse off as a society for having let it become so ubiquitous.

I don't want to get all Church lady about it, but I think it needs to be taken more seriously than it is. It has affected society a lot.

You know, this idea that every single woman who draws breath on this planet is somehow used, exploited or doing something against their will is tiresome. Here you have someone, a woman, who actually works in that business, telling you that she hasn't seen what you're talking about and you still won't let it go.

Yes, there are bad people who do bad things and people who have been forced down paths, for whatever reason, that they may not have willingly chosen, but not everything is awful and evil. There are many, strong empowered women who make choices that they aren't forced into. Not everything in life is an afterschool special. Women are stronger than you think.

[quote]Sometimes, I play with friends who live in other states who are also close to my age. [bold]We share stories of our daily lives and laugh our asses off while playing.[/bold]

Yeah, so, r245, you're definitely not playing COD or any multiplayer FPS. Ain't nobody got time for all that when your entire squad is dead, you're the last one alive, and the opposition is armed to the teeth with upgraded, gold-plated weaponry.

This is serious business.

Nobody plays a video game for only 1 hour (or 3 on the weekend)

A LOT of married straight men feel abandoned or used within the marriage and family, like they pay for everything (even if they're not the sole breadwinner), but nobody's paying attention to their needs or putting them first. They feel like outsiders within their own families, and/or feel financially exploited and taken for granted. These feelings are real, but are usually held by people who are totally unaware that the wife also feels unloved and unheard, or like she's completely lost her identity to motherhood, or that his own failure to hold his end up at home has meant his wife has no time for him because she's doing 100% of the housework, and his less-committed approach to parenting has led to distance in the relationship with the kids.

Seriously, nobody's telling young heterosexuals that kids are the death of romance and passion, and that they need to accept that if they have children, their marriage is going to become a partnership dedicated to raising kids and paying the mortgage, and if they're lucky they can still be friends after the passion has died.

I'm sure women, just like many gay men, love the feeling of being covered in cum. They can be just as addicted to creampies, double penetration, and being bred, but unfortunately they can get pregnant from it. It's not the body subconsciously wanting a baby but the minds real need for cock and cum that exists in us all.

R267 Bu kakke originated as a method of public humiliation for unfaithful women in feudal Japan (usually the first and least painless of a string of punishments). So like many kinks nowadays, it coincidentally has roots in methods of unpleasurable torture and degradation for women specifically. Weird how often that seems to be the case...

My observation is that (assuming no postnatal depression and that the people we're talking about are not total asshole parents), if you are the primary caregiver to a very young child you realise viscerally that the child is wholly dependent on you and it alters and limits your focus so that it is primarily on the child. Mostly, the person this happens to is the mother, but I've known a handful of fathers who, for financial reasons, were the primary caregiver from the kid's 6 month mark to about 2 years, and exactly the same thing happened to them. (One told me that while he loved both his kids, he couldn't deny that he had a permanent bond with the one he had cared for as a baby which was closer than he had with the other one.) You don't get this if you are not fully immersed in the caring, though: someone who is just trying to be a good husband and muck in when he's at home may never get the altered focus.

Fathers who are not the primary carer and are not mature enough to understand the necessity for this narrowing of focus often grump around feeling "sidelined", or leave because they are not the primary focus any more -- but the last thing in the world they want is to have to actually DO dinner-bath-bedtime. Most good fathers start to enjoy the kids when the kids are cognisant enough for Dad to become their Alpha, and he can introduce them to the things he liked to do as a kid and get acclaim for it. Which is just about the time Mom sees them as more independent and she starts thinking about getting some of her own life (including her marriage) back on track.

I concede this is not a scientific study and only my observations of people I've known over many years. I also acknowledge that a lot of people who have kids shouldn't, and that they will never parent properly at any stage.

R266 Fuck off. Like you have a clue what ANY single married man thinks. Are you also a vagina expert, sad fagette.

In terms of housework--ime straight men will always ignore, decline or delegate specific chores, notably the 'Cinderella' type of dirty menial jobs typically done by female maids & cleaners & carers. It's a considered power play, even when it just looks like carelessness or random laziness. Women need to start calling this out and refusing to accept it, because it's manipulative bullshit.

Take my dad. He'll do yardwork (some), walk the dog, cook dinner, make up a fire. My Mom will sometimes do these chores as well. No way will Dad ever deign to do laundry, scrub a floor or clean a fucking bathroom, though. Neither will he deal with his MIL's physical or emotional care, beyond making her a cup of tea or tossing her a blanket/newspaper. Mom tells me that he used to hand me off as a baby to his sisters to look after when I was a baby and my Mom was in the hospital (close to dying) with my younger sister. He clearly thinks these particular types of work are beneath him, and 'womans' work' that he as a male shouldn't have to deal with.

British feminists hate men and sex and are dreadful homophobes.

[quote]Drugged and likely kidnapped or economically hostaged people (many of them women from vulnerable backgrounds of addiction and abuse, some of them minors or barely leg al) forced into performing painful, risky, injurious and degrading sex, so that they can eat and keep a roof over their heads

[quote]Maybe the women in mainstream porn aren't trafficked, but I've seen enough porn to know that many porn actresses are drunk or high or otherwise disassociating while on screen. And don't try to tell me they aren't, they aren't good enough actresses to pretend to be out of it.

And you think the same shit doesn't happen in gay porn? Have you seen some of the bottoms doing gang-bang scenes for studios like Blacksonboys? Have you taken a look at the threads here on Datalounge that discuss the lives of gay porn actors ... the dysfunctional backgounds, the drugs, the prison stints, the suicides and overdoses? Have you heard of Helix Studios who "specialize" in barely legal boys, and their shady "recruiting tactics"?

Yeah, porn is "problematic" for a number of reasons, but I'm sick of people acting like these problems only apply to female actors in straight porn, while the men (esp. in gay porn) have the time of their lives.

R273 What adults and other do with their lives is Nunya Fucking Bizness.

and others.......fucking typos

Most american parents hate themselves and their spouses

Sure, everyone is (sadly) free to self-destruct, but people/studios who exploit mental illness and poverty are scum. And IF performers are offered copious amounts of alcohol or pot before a shoot, let alone illegal drugs such as GHB or roofies, I'm pretty sure they're not operating within legal limits.

It always strikes me as sad to see a divorced dad having breakfast or lunch out with his kids. Everyone at the table always looks miserable, and you know he's counting down the hours until his weekend duty with them is over.

Programmed robots who want to recreate Holiday card images they’ve seen before. Straight people are unbelievably fucking stupid, most are like trained seals. They’re really pathetic, the older I get the more I get nauseous about family life and all of its hypocrisy. The hubris they have for the fact that they simply fuck pussy or shit out kids is insane. They think they’re better than you fags everyday, all day. 8 billion people on this earth now, ridiculous, it was 6 billion in 2002, 4 billion in 1982, 2 billion in 1927. The straight sexual behavior is not sustainable.

Funny about chores. In the 1960s, my father did excessive landscaping, and building in and outdoors. He was always at the lumberyard and the hardware store. This is what he CHOSE to do with his free weekend time. He never spent time with me, my mother or siblings. My mother took us to the pool, the beach, the library...my mother took us to the doctor, shopping, lunches (even some dinners) out - without him. He preferred a bag of cement over the family. Even when his projects were complete, he chose not to participate in family activities.

My mother later initiated divorce proceedings, I don't think he had a clue why she wasn't happy in the marriage. HE was. Before anyone calls her a bitch, know my father was also an abusive drunk who wouldn't/couldn't hold a job.

r277 please list the companies you have seen giving porn girls substances before shoots. Someone needs to notify the FBI if this is happening. I'm sure you know which adult companies are doing this.

LOL. The hysterical kween has no evidence.

It's funny, my dad was quite different. He clearly wanted a family, he shifted away from his friends quite soon after we were born and concentrated on us. He and mum, when they moved in together, divvied up the household chores as to who would do what (she: bathrooms, vacuuming; he: ironing, washing up; both: cooking, gardening). Mum also worked nights, so dad spent a lot of time with us, taking us out on trips, teaching us to swim, etc. Mum tells the story of how, just after I was born, he would stand in the doorway at night and listen to make sure I was still breathing.

I didn't realise quite how lucky I was growing up.

My father, too, came from a highly traditional household (father worked, home was his castle; mother stayed home, took care of the kids, cleaned/cooked). But he broke that mold somewhat, at least partially, by spending more time with us kids, working our homework with us, cooking for us when our mother was busy, taking us to the beach or park solo, dressing us, changing diapers, etc. He enjoyed it too. But he also was busy during the day, he worked to pay the bills so our mother could stay home to primarily raise us. I too feel like I had a "lucky childhood".

My brother-in-law takes it even further, when he was laid off a while ago and my sister went back to work, he did all the housework, school drop offs, school meetings, cooking, etc. He enjoyed it as well, surprisingly, and was slow to go back to work because of that (my sister made him lol).

[quote] Do married men with kids really hate their Wives?

FIFY.

"And that's a problem built into the life of a Nuclear Family, the fact that there are only two people to mind children that need minding 24/7."

Children do not need minding 24/7. When we were kids, we were told to go out and play until the street lights came on. Babies and toddlers up until around age 5 need monitoring, but once we were at an age where we could talk in complete sentences, we were taught to clean and help around the house. My mom was a stay at home mother but my sister and I were the ones who did the majority of the cleaning. Parents today don't teach their kids how to clean or cook or do dishes. We did all of that and more. We learned how to operate a gas powered mower when we were around 7 or 8 and mowed the lawns too. I always enjoyed mowing.

My father seemed to enjoy his life where he was the bread winner while mom stayed home. But then he lost his job and things went downhill fast and he tried to kill himself and then tried to shoot my mom. When my mom left him, he stopped paying on the house we were living in to spite her and didn't give two fucks that his 4 children ended up homeless when the house was foreclosed on. We barely speak to him now because all he does is whine and expect his kids to take care of him in his old age because he never saved a dime for retirement. I stopped speaking to him this year after he called me to say he was going to kill himself (he did this often). I was done and told him to do it and then blocked him.

You barely speak to the man who tried to shoot your mother and let you be homeless out of spite? Why the fuck didn't you cut off contact the second you turned 18?

I am absolutely mystified by people who have neglectful or abusive parents who complain about how awful they are while still maintaining contact with them. Grow some fucking balls.

We all maintained contact, r287 because we were scared of him. PTSD is a real thing that I've finally been dealing with with EMDR therapy. My 3 siblings still speak to him and when I ask them why they say, "Keep your enemies close." I'm glad I finally "grew some balls" this year, even though I'm a lesbian.

It's definitely easier said than done to punch and delete relatives, no matter how much we joke about it on here. Mainly because families are usually an enormous matrix, and if you disturb one thread (your relationship with the abuser), then the whole fucking thing starts shaking and vibrating and spinning like mad, and that adds to the stress and confusion of life.

It's easier said than done but if you don't do it you have yourself to blame. Quit wallowing in drama and misery, you're an adult and you don't have to maintain contact with a parent.

If it was a toxic work environment or a partner you were financially attached to that's one thing.

Yes, r289. The minute I told my dad off, I called my sister and she told her wife to get her gun and put it by the door. THAT'S how damaged we all were from his violence. Sister told me she admired me for cutting him off finally though.

And I have to thank r290 because he/she is correct. Once we become adults, the choice is ours. I go back and forth feeling guilty about cutting him off but I know it was the right thing to do. This is a man who never could let go of my mom even though they both got remarried very quickly after the divorce. He never served time in jail for attempting to kill her (this was the 80's) and he decided that it was a good time to call and tell me he was going to off himself while I was enduring radiation for breast cancer and fighting for my own life. The man is a narcissist who never considered anyone else's feelings. Of course, he hasn't killed himself...but I suspect he might try again and will likely do it around Xmas just to try to ruin everyone's holiday. He's too much of a pussy to actually go through with it though.

I agree with R286. I understand that as GenXers, many of us had hands off parents, but here we are - still standing. This idea that every second of your child's day has to be programmed with activities, playdates, and learning opportunities is all relatively new. Both parents worked. We came home to empty houses. We didn't go to parties or anywhere else with our parents, they hired some teen from down the street. Adults hung out with adults, you didn't see kids at adult things.

Have you all forgotten about ME?????

[quote]nobody's telling young heterosexuals that kids are the death of romance and passion,

True, r266. My parents broke up barely a year after I was born. I don't ever remember them being together or even amicable with one another.

As far as I'm concerned, I was grown in a lab somewhere.

R280 I’m going through my fathers things after his death and I’ve found so many fucking lists, collections of articles, and other shit that he was spending his time on instead of being with us kids, while my mom thought he was doing “work”. It’s unreal.

You can’t have a rational conversation with a pro-porn advocate. They think it’s so perfectly normal and healthy that we’ve gone in one generation, from people whose experience with sex would come from real partners and maybe skin mags, to one where millions upon millions are consuming hardcore, often violent and degrading porn, EVERY SINGLE DAY. Nope, that couldn’t possibly have an effect on society! Stop clutching those pearls!

Sorry to derail the thread. I need a porn thread lol

To quote a porn actress, "If you don't teach your kids about sex, then they learn about it from porn and you don't want that."

Porn can be something both negative and positive. It can help people if they need to masturbate. It can open minds and introduce vanilla people to kink or just a different way of having sex. It can also be degrading and vile and maybe damaging to the idiots of the world who believe it's somehow how people actually have sex in real life. The world is full of stupid people. Nothing can help that.

But yes, let's blame the world's woes on porn. It's far easier to chalk it up to that instead of admitting that half of the human race consists of people too stupid to stop believing in a magical sky fairy and letting that belief cause wars and oppression of large groups of people.

People with young kids need to make time for themselves and as a couple. Kids under 5 need to be in bed at 8:00 (or earlier) to give parents a chance to unwind.

There is a reason Saturday morning was all cartoons on TV. Parents got to sleep in and have sex and get a break from the kids. For a kid it was a right of passage to be big enough to be able to pour the milk in the cereal bowl.

[quote]The man is a narcissist who never considered anyone else's feelings.

Lots of men of a certain age think this is the way they're supposed to act. As long as they bring home a paycheck, what's the problem?

[quote] As long as they bring home a paycheck, what's the problem?

No-one who would ask this or anything like it needs to be heard in this matter.

[quote]Adults hung out with adults, you didn't see kids at adult things.

I remember being a kid and going to parties where my parents and all the adults hung out inside, and the kids were made to go outside and play. I would sometimes peek in at the door and think: "I can't wait until I'm an adult and can hang out in there".

I become an adult and instead every adult interaction has to put everyone's kids first. I have never had people my age just send kids to another room to play, it's always interrupted conversations where the parent makes sure their kid's random conversations (often just: "Mum? Mum? I-I-I-I... um I-I, um, I want... um, um...) take over, and as an adult you are required to modify your language and topics of conversation for them.

I actually think kids are great, I don't want them myself, but I have no problem with other people's. But it's frustrating to be an adult now and not have those adult "benefits" my parents had and it seems to be damaging the kids too, who are less able to go off and amuse themselves or socialise with each other, as the parent has to do everything for them.

[quote]No-one who would ask this...

R301 fails to understand the irony of the post. And "No-one"? OH FUCKING DEAR.

R302 my Mom (in her 60s) tears her hair out every week at work, because her useless younger Frau coworker has the most dependent and annoying and autistic sons (9 & 12) who constantly come into their workplace and cause hassle or beg for attention. These boys are rude, loud, lack social skills, and interrupt and make mess all the time, plus keep walking in and out of the office or bugging their Mom for money. One of them is always walking up to the adults working in the office (only a few, it's a small business) to start inane spergy little diatribes about Marvel or cartoons, and not even precociously, either.

Their Mom is poor (works three jobs, and her DH works fulltime) and bad with her money, plus her parents are dead, so she can't get or afford appropriate childcare for her awful brats. The school doesn't want to deal with them, either. I guess her colleagues feel more sorry for her than they do annoyed, and they are all annoyed.

R303 did you not understand what they were saying because of the misuse of a hyphen? Differences of opinion about content aside and other than grammatical or punctuation errors causing difficulty in communicating, I can't think of a single reason why it would matter.

Way back in the 50s men could get away with saying they brought home the money while their wives didn't work. That is not the case anymore. Since the 70s women have had to go back to work and then they are still expected to care for the kids and house as well while the men think bringing home the paycheck is still all they need to do.

R306, many of us upthread have shown that this was NOT the case in our home lives, though.

You are the exception cupcake R307

Nope, not at all. Not only did I not experience it in my own life, I see it not happening in the lives of friends and family around me, and other people on this thread have spoken about it.

It's not as black and white as you may think. I'm truly sorry if you experienced a bad situation like that, either growing up or now, but your experiences aren't everyone's.

Sure Jan R309.

R309 I saw that growing up and have seen it for most of my life. If this generation is different I applaud you but I have been reading women's forums and they are still complaining about men's lack of participation. As for myself, I never experienced it because I refused to get married or have kids.

Often men married or single don't have a choice in becoming fathers. Aside from not having sex there is no full proof way of not getting some female pregnant. Many women (especially wives) want children for a laundry list of reasons. Once she's pregnant that's that; you cannot force a woman to terminate a pregnancy and legally a man is responsible for child regardless.

Good number of married men are cool with that institution per se, they just don't want children.

Best can think of that DL posters would relate to is Trey and Charlotte MacDougal.

Charlotte (literally) landed on the handsome, wealthy Dr. Trey MacDougal and from that moment on it was in fiction as in real life for some fraus; she began to plan out a perfect happy life.

Charlotte wanted to get married so they did. Trey couldn't marshal his troops; Charlotte saw to that as well. Charlotte wanted children, Trey was ambient but went along to a point. When it became clear Charlotte needed "help" and couple would have to turn to IVF Trey felt trapped.

Trey MacDougal like many real life husbands or partners of fraus was like; "look if we have children we do, if not I'm cool with that.." Charlotte like many fraus in real life wasn't "happy with that" and pushed the issue. In end it ruined their marriage.

Even back in day when husbands from lower classes treated sex with their wives as something like an after dinner mint; many regretted the outcome; all those mouths to feed. Since by law and custom it was the man who was (and is) supposed to provide for his wife and family you can see why having all those children felt like a millstone around a man's neck.

Married men with a passel of children make up some of the best customers of whores and mistresses. Poor bastards are often just that miserable.

Vasectomies and condoms are foolproof. Anyone who has a passel of children wants them.

R311 Awesome. The last thing we need is your autistic clueless lil demon spawn running round.

*Vasectomies and condoms are foolproof.*

Former is vastly better than latter, but neither are 100% foolproof.

A man who has a vasectomy and wears condoms does not produce a passel of kids. Quit pretending otherwise.

R260, in other words, it’s like having an extra kid to take care of (the husband).

When you have kids you loose your turn.

This is a GAY WEBSITE you DUMB BITCH!

[quote] You are the exception cupcake [R307]

It can't be the exception if it happens so often. Sure, there is the husband who expects his wife to do everything at home, but I also see the wife who has her husband sharing or completely handling household and parenting duties. Many women probably saw that their mothers were expected to work and handle household responsibilities and did not want that unfair burden for themselves. And increasingly, more of these men who refuse to share in household duties are finding themselves divorced. My cousin's husband is a mechanic. He busts his ass all day at work and comes home to change his kid's diapers.

Well Maybe it is a mostly gay website but it is advertised as a gossip site. So you attract women here. Women like gossip. Maybe you should have advertised that it is a gay website and women are not welcome.

Girls and their silly hairy snatches are welcome here. We love to attack em and laugh at them.

Women need to use birth control or learn to close their legs. Entrapment of men into becoming fathers is despicable. When did women become such gold digging, conniving, lying, back stabbing whores?

Imagine how fast R323 would get pregnant, if he could trap a man that way!

r323 Who hurt you?

R324 does trapping him in my basement count?

[quote]Good number of married men are cool with that institution per se, they just don't want children.

Most long standing couples marry precisely to HAVE children. And two guys I know plus my own brother had to almost beg their wives to have children.

I often wonder where you people get your information. Soap operas?

R323 has never heard of this marvelous little invention called a c-o-n-d-o-m that goes a long way to preventing the situation he describes.

And it's obvious R323's father never heard of it either.

"I often wonder where you people get your information. Soap operas?"

Where they get all their other information about the real world: watching pron.

What porn are you watching that includes kids?

There's something for everyone out there these days, r330.

You give yourself away as a clickbait troll with “they don’t know…”