What do you think is the biggest difference between Americans and Europeans?

Americans don't make excuses or apologies for our racism. We can acknowledge that it is a feature of our culture.

Europeans apologize while make excuses for theirs. European pretend it doesn't exist or that it immigrated to their nation from the black and brown immigrants.

Americans feel obligated to protect the Western world order.

Europeans pretend they are above it all while using American as a cover for our joint objectives.

A European friend (French) was explaining this question to his European wife (Italian) 30 years ago when I was at their home. She thought it odd that going topless at the beach by women was mostly forbidden in the US and wondered why Americans were so puritannical, His response, as a European who had lived in the US for years-- Americans in their public loves are very much Puritans, but behind closed doors are the most perverted nation in the west. What really shocked her was when he said we're even worse than most Germans.

R1 nails it.

And r2 I find it very hard to believe that Americans are more sexually perverted than Germans. The type of sex-shows that come out of that country… 💩🤢

r2 that makes no sense about freaks in the sheets. America may be the porn capital of the world now and 3 years ago, but I'd say we rank in the middle sexually. I have legit never heard someone say Americans are freaks in the sheets. Wild sex isn't really our thing.

R1. I'm in the weird position where I slightly agree with you but also don't.

Europeans are slightly above it if you ask me. Europeans didn't displace the peoples of their own continent, unlike Americans. And Europe has a long and complex history with foreign peoples/race, the nuances of which are often missed by Americans. They only see race in the context of their own rather short history - primarily black and white. Europeans have had 2000 years of intermingling with others, both across Europe and across Africa, the Middle East, and Asia, where distinctions between black and white were far less clear-cut.

Before the creation of modern nation-states (arguably concurrent with America's founding and independence), culture and race used to be even more complex. America sees intent on exporting it's over-simplified view on such matters to the detriment of global culture.

And I would also argue that Europe just takes a more realistic view of the Western World Order. Namely that, despite what some Americans believe, it existed before the US and may even exist after. And even if it doesn't, the world will survive. In some ways Americans like to cast themselves as the guardians at the gate, holding off the barbarians like Alexander at the Caspian Gates. I personally think that's a fiction.

I'm not denying the importance of America to maintaining the Western Order as a financial juggernaut. But America seems to be having a crisis of identity regarding it's values and accordingly its moral leadership, which I find highly troubling.

I'm planning a trip to the Central of Europe and I will let you know when I get back, op.

Universal health care

Foreskin.

Pro-capitalist beliefs. Most Americans seem to believe quite uncomplicatedly that what's good for business is good for society: and they vote accordingly. It's much more common to believe that having money makes you respectable, while being poor just means that you didn't work hard or you screwed up somehow. I always get amused to see US politicians go on TV and argue that their policies are designed to help 'the middle class' and everyone just accepting that of course that's what the aim should be.

Also, we really don't understand the gun obsession.

Americans think 100 years is a long time

Oh yes, and a disturbingly large number of people seem to believe in American exceptionalism: so much so that every President has to genuflect to this shibboleth.

R9 as an American it never ceases to amaze me how quickly middle class americans will get on their knees for CEOs who think of them as nothing but worthless workhorses. They are more likely to turn on each other just to gain Daddy CEOs approval. I've noticed that Europeans will fight back if some rich asshole threatens their quality of life.

Oh yes, and it's much more common in the states to be vocal about your religion (if it's Christianity or maybe also Judaism). Genuinely religious people in much of Europe tend to keep it low-key (some exceptions, such as Poland). It seems to me that proselytising/evangelising is much more common in the States. Also, atheism or agnosticism is pretty unremarkable over here, but over there (at least in some places) seems much more shocking and less socially accepted.

“Europeans didn't displace the peoples of their own continent, unlike Americans.”

Because displacing peoples of other continents and plundering their resources in the process is any better? Wtf are you on about?

You exemplify *exactly* what r1 states about Europeans v Americans.

R12 from this vantage point it seems that even many on the 'left' (obviously this is a relative term) of US politics are happy to queue up to suck the dicks of Bill Gates or Elon Musk as a matter of course.

R12 Americans refuse to accept that we are FAR more likely to end up homeless than to be millionaires.

“I've noticed that Europeans will fight back if some rich asshole threatens their quality of life.”

Yes, sorta like the UK that just elected, er, implemented a total man-of-the-people PM with a wife by his side who has working class humble roots!

One is fatter than the other

R17, the UK did not elect him. Relatively few, elderly, wealthy Conservative Party members rubber stamped the choice made by a few hundred largely wealthy Conservative MPs.

The UK will decide on the wisdom of that choice in 2 years time. Just wait and see what happens then.

^ given the subsequent words the poster used, “elected” in r17’s post was obviously sarcasm……

About the differences between racism in Europe and the US, I partly agree and partly disagree with previous posters.

It's true that a much more heightened awareness of race and racism seems to permeate the general discourse much more in the US than it does in Europe, though I don't think that we sweep it under the carpet entirely: dealing with the legacy of colonialism has become quite a hot political potato in some countries in recent years, like the protests over statues in the UK, or the argument over colonialism that was such a big issue in Macron's first election.

But a big part of the reason for that may be the different historical circumstances. The early American colonies were founded on the labour of African slaves and eventually their descendants, when freed, came to make up a substantial proportion of the US population, and of course they immediately formed an underclass due to lack of resources. Perhaps racist ideas and racist techniques of control had to be 'mainstreamed' much more comprehensively in the US as a means for the white majority to try and keep this black population in check. European colonialism was just as great a crime against humanity of course, but since it mostly happened in far-off lands it was much easier to spread fictions about its supposed noble purpose. Just a thought.

R14. You're missing the point. The Europeans who displaced the natives of other lands, such as the US, went on to become the ancestors and architects of those modern day colonized states.

European countries weren't (largely) built on such displacement. The US (amongst many others) were.

Americans only listen to American music mostly.

Europe are not into ranch, ice coffee or water that are not expensive.

The American Dream is the biggest propaganda exercise ever conducted, and fosters a lack of trust in government, which can easily be portrayed as getting in the way of an individuals pursuit of fame and fortune.

Although Europeans are frequently furious at politicians, they largely trust that government institutions are set up for the good of society in general.

Europeans see well-functioning government as a necessity and a guarantor of a basic level of social equality, whereas Americans (at least on the Right) genuinely believe that government must be kept as small and weak as possible, and that strong government is a threat to individual freedom.

These different outlooks are at the heart of different attitudes to welfare, policing, guns, etc.

r5 thank you for your detailed response. With regards to point 1, the Americans displacing Native peoples were predominately of European decent if not fresh off the boat and onto the frontier to grab available land. Now, let's look at imperialism. Europeans did unspeakable things to people across the world. Sure, they could keep it cute back home, but abroad they were monsters in many situations.

This would also ignore the countless wars that Europeans waged amongst themselves. They also eradicated native peoples with war against tribes that pre-date the Romans. Sure, it was white on white crime, but they still were gleefully slaughter a villages, taking the attractive women to be raped. Then we get to the World Wars and we really can't say they are above Americans considering what they do to each other.

Many of these things happened all over the world under different cultures, so not on a bash Europe crusade, just noting that everything done in America was learned, perfected, and done in Europe. The people in power were basically Europeans.

Europeans are also not content to watch as the East takes up more power in the world. As I said, the US is the face of a joint effort to maintain Western power. We have caused mass hunger in places like Venezuela because the president wanted to nationalize oil, among other issues. This didn't just mess with US companies but was an issue for many European companies. There is really only the illusion of difference between the US and the rest of the white Westernized nations. IN reality, our economies and goals have remained inter twined since the 19th century.

Also, you need to ask yourself why they allow so many US bases and for the US to flex our military might in Europe if they aren't interested in our joint directives.

This is why the US entered into the World Wars, while Mexico and many other nations stayed out of that mess.

R25. And the root of why America is really fucked up right now.

You can't build a stable society when distrust is fundamentally built into your culture.

R17 it's actually been quite noticeable that most successful recent British Prime Ministers have gone to great efforts to present themselves as just ordinary blokes/ladies: David Cameron, who is seriously wealthy, managed to really substantially downplay his fortune and presented himself as just another Home Counties middle-class dad who liked Sunday pub lunches and curries, read Ian McEwan and supported West Ham (or Aston Villa?). Margaret Thatcher was the 'grocer's daughter' John Major was the 'working-class boy from Brixton'. Tony Blair was 'a pretty straight guy' who loved going to see Newcastle United as a child.

Boris Johnson would be the exception that proves the rule.

As for Rishi Sunak, he hasn't won an election yet, and I doubt he is going to, especially given various recent missteps such as the surfacing of a video in which he admitted not knowing any working-class people. There was even a minor controversy over him being filmed stuffing 2 £20 notes into a collecting tin for the poppy appeal - most people today given the cost of living crises might balk at just blithely putting £40 into a collecting tin. I don't think he's done enough to obscure his wealth or his lifestyle, put it that way (it's pretty hard to obscure in fairness).

On the other hand, both Mitt Romney and Donald Trump ran for President on the argument that since they had built billion-dollar businesses, this qualified them to fix all the country's problems. No-one would try making this argument in Europe: but Trump won and Romney came close.

GUNS

[quote] With regards to point 1, the Americans displacing Native peoples were predominately of European decent if not fresh off the boat and onto the frontier to grab available land.

R26, America was still displacing Native Americans almost 150 years after the Revolution. Blaming evil European colonials for those crimes is a Comforting fiction Americans tell themselves, just as Europeans tell themselves that colonialism wasn’t evil because we left train tracks behind.

[quote] This is why the US entered into the World Wars, while Mexico and many other nations stayed out of that mess.

And American entered World War 2 because Japan attacked you, and because Hitler then declared war on you. Beforehand you were a valued trading partner of Britain and its allies, but you were also paid handsomely for it. It’s in large part what led to the economic boom in America through the 1940s and 1950s. Britain paid the last annual payment for wartime goods to America in 2006.

R26. Would you not consider Europeans the natives of their own continent? I'm not sure who you're referencing being eradicated unless we're talking about the New World?

The rest is true enough. Violence has been part of European history for longer than it has existed. I wasn't implying Europe lived in harmony with the Middle East, Mongols, Persians or Egyptians for 2000 years. In many ways you're right; Americans are the latest torch bearers in efforts to export one's culture across the world that arguably started with Alexander's efforts in Egypt.

American who has also lived in the UK, I think many Americans tend to have an entitled attitude that the US is the best and it's not even a question, it's a fact. That's displayed in how they (we) carry themselves, the way and volume of conversation, the expectations of service.

Europeans who are not as familiar with American are often shocked at how friendly Americans are on the surface, but that it's an empty gesture. They think we genuinely care when we ask how you are doing when it is just a formality or greeting. In Europe, they are not as quick to let you in, but when they do it is meaningful

[quote] American who has also lived in the UK, I think many Americans tend to have an entitled attitude that the US is the best and it's not even a question, it's a fact. That's displayed in how they (we) carry themselves, the way and volume of conversation, the expectations of service.

LOL! R32 I'm told that a lot when I visit my relatives outside the US.

Agree, R32, especially with "volume of conversation".

I'd also add attitudes towards public transport and tipping in general.

American work culture seems hellish.

I was pretty shocked to learn that all states except Montana have some version of 'at-will employment' laws, meaning you can be fired immediately and without warning for no reason or because they just don't like your hat.

At will is the defacto situation across most of the US, but up to 34% of workers are covered by union or union-like contracts which specify just cause. Although at will is almost always far more beneficial to employers than to employees, in the past few years, many workers have been telling their bosses they can take their job and shove it - because there is a labor shortage and there is no contractual obligation on the part of the worker to the company either.

I had to laugh at the person who believes that Europeans never displaced natives. That may be true- IN THE PAST 1000 YEARS. Prior to that, the entire history of Europe is one tribe ousting another tribe for a desirable plot of land. The Celts were shoved out of the way by the Romans, and, later, in England, by the Angles and Saxons. The Germanic tribes came through and displaced many of the Roman settlements. And the Slavic tribes came through and displaced many of the Greek and Gemanic settlements. The Huns completely displaced the prior tribes that lived in modern day Hungary. One could say that one of the aims of the Third Reich was to displace Slavic people and Jews to make room for Germans. ("Lebensraum") It turns out that that sort of displacement is a "human nature" thing, not an "American" thing.

[quote] Europeans have had 2000 years of intermingling with others, both across Europe and across Africa, the Middle East, and Asia, where distinctions between black and white were far less clear-cut.

Intermingling? Uh, no. Europeans have had 1,500 years of being repeatedly invaded/conquered/occupied by Muslims from North Africa and Asia. As well as being invaded/conquered/occupied by successive empire-hungry European countries.

The main difference between Europe and America is that most of Europe remained homogeneous until well into the 20th century. Therefore the concept of race/racism was non-existent. A far greater issue in Europe was socio-cultural bigotry against Jews, gypsies, and other infintisimal ethnic minorities, who were segregated in ghettoes away from the general population. A bigotry shared by the influx of Muslim migrants, giving Europeans the opportunity to deflect from their own bigotries by blaming migrants while at the same time encouraging their bigotry.

[quote] One could say that one of the aims of the Third Reich was to displace Slavic people and Jews to make room for Germans.

R37 The aim of the Third Reich was to exterminate Jews. Your "interpretation" is the product of deplorable ignorance.

Americans don’t know how to use cutlery

[quote] Therefore the concept of race/racism was non-existent

Errr.....

R37. We could get into a whole debate about who is "native" if we go back far enough and allocate land to every tribe and settlement created since humans came out of Africa. But that's an exercise in pointlessness.

But the impact of that is not really relevant to today. The Anglo, Saxon, Danish, and Nordic conquests of England are no more impactful to the current socio-political climate than whatever tribal conflicts existed between pre-historic settlements in England during the 15th century BCE. The former is just better documented.

Same really with the Norman Conquest. I'm sure at the time the Anglo-Saxons waxed lyrically about how it was the complete destruction of their way of life, but ultimately that's of little relevance now. For better or worse England was formed from that moment in history. And the Anglo-Saxon culture of the peasantry was hardly affected by the replacement of the nobility. Fast forward 200 years and few nobility were speaking French anyway.

But indigenous peoples across the world, not merely in the US but all across those colonized during the New World, are suffering the consequences of far more recent, and arguably more egregious, acts of domination and subjugation. In many cases we're talking about the large-scale destruction or subjugation of entire civilizations, peoples, religions, and histories. In contrast, the subjugation of a kingdom like Mercia to the mercies of Danish invaders, whom were eventually assimilated into a new emergent cultural identity, seems less problematic to me.

I will again return to the concept of the nation-state which I see as an instigator of these sorts of issues. There's a far cry between tribal conflicts during a time where (in my opinion) distinctions between peoples were a little more fungible. The way people connect to each other nowadays, through broad constructions of what it means to be of a specific nationality, ethnicity or culture, is a modern phenomena that Americans adopted with a lot of gusto, without putting in the hard work that Europe did.

America attempting to shortcut the process of figuring out a supranational identity is probably why inter-state conflict has been such a present part of American history. Papering over the cracks with a broad and vague conception of American greatness/exceptionalism is not a successful strategy.

R41 Errrrr . . .De Gobineau? How many black/Asians lived in 19th century France?

[quote] In contrast, the subjugation of a kingdom like Mercia to the mercies of Danish invaders, whom were eventually assimilated into a new emergent cultural identity, seems less problematic to me.

I imagine the Mercians regarded it as highly problematic.

The entirety of human history is the story of different tribes invading, assimilating and/or supplanting other tribes, and that has been done across the globe. Countries grow strong and seek to expand, or to exploit others in their own commercial interests. Then events conspire to weaken them and others take over. Who nowadays thinks much about the Grand Duchy of Lithuania, once the largest European state, but which was entirely absorbed by more powerful forces?

One big difference between America and Europe is that America remains confident in its exceptional power and status in the world, and Europeans are more aware that it is a transitory thing. At one time or another Portugal, Spain, France, Britain could all have laid a claim to be the most powerful country in the world (or at least the power with the furthest global reach) but those days passed. America’s time in the sun will end at some point too. The interesting part is how a country deals with that change.

[quote] But indigenous peoples across the world,

"Indigenous peoples" is a misnomer. They simply got their first, e.g., America's/Canada's First Nations.

The US is too big a nation to paint all Americans with the same brush, and Europe is too big and diverse a region to speak of them as were they a homogenous group.

It is my observation that the northern Europeans (BeNeLux, Scandinavia, UK, Ireland) will always come across as more cold and aloof than the rest, a bit like the North-Eastern Americans (Massachusetts, Maine, Vermont), but their EU-kin may take “acting distanced” even a bit further.

I find the Americans more chatty, and while friendly, I’d rather not have long interactions with the cashier at, say, TraderJoe. But hey, when in Rome..

My American friends find most European countries, save for its capitals, to be a bit out of time and cumbersome when it comes to getting the simplest things done. True, but that’s also part of the olde worlde charm..

I think some the Americanisms are hard to grasp, like organising a barbecue out of your trunk on a parking lot; but I’m sure they scratch their heads when they see some things going on this side of the pond.

Last but not least: For both countries/regions applies the same adage — it all depends on who you meet and talk to. Educated vs non-educated, travelled vs homebody, etc.

R44. I'm sure the Mercians did and I largely agree with you.

It's just a question of scale. And sadly the last 400 years has seen destruction on a scale that's almost unprecedented. The wholesale devastation of the Meso-American empires and civilizations, just as an example, is a travesty to which the conquest of Mercia (in my opinion) doesn't equate.

Americans value anti-intellectualism and magical thinking to a much greater extent often shockingly placing them on equal footing to scientific and rational concepts. The pendulum swings from one side to another, Currently, the US in crazy period where conspiracy theories and simplistic notions hold sway and create a diversion from the ever growing socio-economic disparity within the country. Europeans don’t prop up and revel as much in stupidity. It’s considered embarrassing.

R43, I don't know but not sure what the relevance of that is, you can trace a direct line from De Gobineau's 'scientific racism' ideas to the Nazi ideology, and all of this developed in the 19th century (when mankind still believed science could explain everything).

Circumcision

These are my sweeping generalizations.

Europeans tell you what to do. Americans tell you what to feel.

Related to that emotions-based ruling order, American religion is how ignorant authoritarians backdoored their way into professions that should take study and consideration and talent, practice of which is how ignorance gets corrected: politics, education, governance, the arts. Religion in the US is the big problem.

Hyperinvestment in identity in the US results in clinging to staying the same on a personal level, especially with thoughts. Hyperinvestment in tradition in Europe results in staying the same in terms of UX in general, such as still employing four grown men behind the cheese counter and Websites and books with 1998 margins and typography.

American culture suggests that for many Americans, youth was their high point.

Conversation is different. American culture can be like talking to a brand representative, focused on positive claims about themselves and "getting to know you" questions about your biography and monitoring of how the listener "took" what they said. Damage control is fatiguing: "I hope you don't think" and "Now of course, I don't mean..." To a non-American, it can come across and feeling entitled to know let alone control what other people think of you.

European men are more familiar with sarcasm as flirting. In the US smart and funny women can be so upsetting to some straight men that they deny their existence.

Looking at media, men in the US are more interested in superheroes. Maybe this is changing. In conversation American men think their enthusiasms are inherently interesting to others, so that's why superheroes comes up at work for me only from American men. (I work for a mainly European company, with maybe 25% American.)

Snacking between meals and always having a sippy cup of sorts is a cultural norm in the US now.

[quote]Americans don't make excuses or apologies for our racism. We can acknowledge that it is a feature of our culture.

You are full of shit. You are constantly projecting your racism on others.

American exceptionalism and many of its attitudes are the result of several issues, one of which is that we are a very young country, comparatively speaking. One of President Tyler's grandchildren is still alive; he was president in 1841. The last Civil War widow died less than two years ago.

That's part of the reason why we're still feeling the repercussions of everything that happened early in our country's history, from basically the Boston Tea Party up until the Spanish-American War. The current batch of far-right conspiracy nuts terrorizing our country called themselves "Tea Partiers" until a few years ago and still use the Gadsden Flag. McCain made an oblique reference to the USS Maine during his 2012 campaign. Trump talked at length about Andrew Jackson and even referred to the Tariff of Abominations at one point, if I recall. Everyone is still freaking the heck out about the 1619 Project. Confederate flags are everywhere these days.

We just never moved on from anything in a significant way, partly because we're such a huge country geographically that there were areas of the country that could simply pretend they didn't lose the Civil War, or that Texas and Utah were their own free countries, or that Manifest Destiny was still the official policy of the US government long after it wasn't. The years go by and suddenly you realize it's 2022 and a bunch of people are putting out videos saying we should massacre entire populations and also all these states should secede and let's consider whether we should continue to let women work and vote or not.

It's not a surprise that, culturally, we're not particularly advanced, either. That said, I don't know why free boobies on beaches is always the measure by which American "Puritanism" is measured.

[quote]And [R2] I find it very hard to believe that Americans are more sexually perverted than Germans. The type of sex-shows that come out of that country…

Germans are really disgusting when it comes to sex. They are dirty! But they are not repressed at all. Not even women. I don' t know about Americans but if they are perverted it could come from repression. The repressed puritans can be really perverted in a different sense than Germans who are shameless and in bed taste.

The loudness, honey. I can hear an American tourist a mile away. Among one of the best-behaved groups of tourists and their earnestness makes them so damn likable, but they are also L-O-U-D.

[quote]Germans are really disgusting when it comes to sex. They are dirty!

What a puritanical thing to say. They love being natural and free, that's all. You can see so much artifice and performative L.A. fakeness in American porn, I need to watch some German or French one occasionally just to cleanse my palate and feel like a human again. We're animals deep down and that should clearly come through when you're having sex.

I have relatives in Ohio and find it fascinating how they live their lives. Big houses, several cars, many vacation trips, designer bags … at first I thought they were seriously rich. They are not, they are pretty much living paycheck to paycheck, have no savings and are heavily in debt. But on social media, they have the perfect life. And yes, they are big Trump supporters.

I live in a country where university education is free, I have zero student loans, no debt, 30 days of paid vacation, unlimited sick leave, food is still cheap, great public transportation, I do not even need a car. We have universal healthcare, child benefits and paid maternity leave/parental leave, that’s completely normal.

According to my US relatives, I live in a socialist hellhole. Go figure!

And where is that illustrious country you live in, "European" R57?

1. The biggest difference is the sense of community good. Most Europeans have a sense that community good comes before individualism. Not surprising, those that believe in "self comes first" tend to move to Switzerland or the USA if they can.

2. I think people are confusing Puritanism with nudity. European nudity does not come from sex, it comes from health. Vitamin D deficiency was a huge issue in the early 1900s. Nude sunbathing was a way of addressing the issue. Europeans see nudity as part of a healthy life: nude sunbathing, saunas, etc. Americans see nudity=sex.

I live in Germany and I get so fucking tired of Europeans acting like they’re morally superior. Every single last European country is dealing with all the economic and social issues as the US, with the exception of gun violence. In regards to everything else, the ostrich method is popular, so Europeans tend to think hiding their head in the ground will alleviate any problems (which is one good reason Ukraine is at war).

Also, America was founded and settled by Europeans who weren’t content with the status quo in their own countries. The Europeans of today aren’t far removed from their relatives to cowardly to try their luck in the New World.

[quote] Also, America was founded and settled by Europeans who weren’t content with the status quo in their own countries. The Europeans of today aren’t far removed from their relatives to cowardly to try their luck in the New World.

R60, America was founded by religious fundamentalists who hated the fact that they could not impose their views on the rest of the population and therefore decided to go off and try to create a country in their own image.

And the vast majority of Europeans who subsequently went off to the colonies were not doing it because they were courageous. They did it because they were desperate, part of an economically unprivileged underclass which the middle and upper classes of their countries were glad to be rid of.

I don’t think any European country would contemplate electing Herschel Walker to the legislature.

[quote]Americans don't make excuses or apologies for our racism. We can acknowledge that it is a feature of our culture.

You have learned that it is incorrect to discriminate against African Americans and you are so hysterical about it that you are not able to treat black Americans like normal people, but like children with special needs. You are not allowed to say a non white celebrity is full of shit when it is obvious to everyone that they are obnoxious, and it is condescending and hypocrite and just another side of racism. You are unable to act in a reasonable and healthy manner when it comes to black Americans.

But when it comes to millions of Middle eastern people killed and left homeless during the oil wars that white and black (Obama) America lead, they are less than human to you.

Ignorance. Americans, god bless them, are raised in a way to make them think the world is centered around the US and any other stuff doesn't really matter. Europeans are raised to think they are a part of the entire world so they tend to be more knowledgeable about the rest of the world.

There are other minor differences but thats the main one, as someone born in neither country/continent but spent time in both.

Europeans aren't into iced coffee? Wasn't my experience in the month I spent in Madrid or the 3 months in Paris.

Politically, it's not that capitalism isn't the default in most european countries, because it is and always will be, its just that socialism isn't viewed as this horror as it is in the States. Capitalist and Socialist policies can live side by side without much of an issue.

Despite the divisions in western society, Americans are far more optimistic and friendlier than Europeans, who tend to be far more cynical.

R60 [quote] The Europeans of today aren’t far removed from their relatives to cowardly to try their luck in the New World.

There's bad sheep to be found in every family line.

[quote] The Europeans of today aren’t far removed from their relatives to cowardly to try their luck in the New World.

First, there was nothing cowardly about finding ones luck in the New World. R67, Dutchie, it had little to do with being the black sheep and a lot to do with the European inheritance laws and the Guild system. If one wasn't the first born son, regardless of economic level, one's options were very limited.

I have lived in Germany since 1990. Very few Germans want to move to the USA. For more common for the few Libertarian types to move to Switzerland. Most have no desire to move to the USA and increasingly, few want to visit the USA either.

Education.

Americans are defiantly and profoundly uneducated.

Underachievers.

Americans were once known to be straight forward and self-deprecating, similar to Australians, lacking in airs.

This lack of pretense has changed in to willfull stupidity.

[quote] Europeans didn't displace the peoples of their own continent, unlike Americans.

Complete nonsense — of course they did. It just happened a long time ago.

For instance there was no difference between the American expansion from the east coast and the expansion of Germanic settlers in Britain northward, pushing the Celtic people north.

[quote]Very few Germans want to move to the USA

Exactly, R68. People from East Europe and Middle east mostly want to move to Germany, because it is a developed social democracy.

Only very ambitious people, scientists, designers or people who want to make it big in entertainment industry want to move to US, cause US is still very strong in this field. Otherwise, nobody wants to live and work in the country without general health insurance, with only few days of paid leave annually, without maternal leave, with toxic competition, place, where a severe illness can bring you to bankruptcy and sleeping in your car.

Language. Bigotry, prejudice ,ignorance, have no boarders. It's just as ugly and hateful en français.

[quote] Complete nonsense — of course they did. It just happened a long time ago.

[quote]For instance there was no difference between the American expansion from the east coast and the expansion of Germanic settlers in Britain northward, pushing the Celtic people north.

Let's not forget the expansion of the Moors/ Ottoman Empire into continental Europe, which wasn't actually that long ago. The siege of Vienna was 1683.

R64 I agree with you but for many decades, the world DID center around the US. Much of that was our military, diplomatic, and economic strength but we lost the high ground beginning with Reagan’s administration. I was raised to believe that the US could be a force for good, (then learned about the CIA) and still hope and wish that we could be that force again someday.

Also, we aren’t surrounded by many other countries within the EU, multiple borders and immigration/emigration. Yes, yes, Mexico and Canada but that’s it. It’s like living in TX - every other state feels so far away that we can’t be bothered.

(Please note that I do not feel this way but I imagine many people do.)

Yes r73 if they were still there today, that would be an example. But they were pushed out again.

All over Europe are peoples who came from somewhere else and took over the joint. But as mentioned, some of this happened millennia ago, so the people have the impression that they sprung out of the ground like grass.

R74 I think the real blow to America’s international credibility was the invasion of Iraq, a ghastly enterprise.

At the same time China was cementing its position as a challenger.

Trump’s election and buffoonish antics just sealed the coffin.

Even at the height of the Cold War i used to believe

[Quote] Most Americans seem to believe quite uncomplicatedly that what's good for business is good for society: and they vote accordingly.

Therefore, Americans are even more brainwashed than a Soviet communist. They are even brainwashed to believe they are not brainwashed.

[quote] you can trace a direct line from De Gobineau's 'scientific racism' ideas to the Nazi ideology,

R49 The direct line is from Catholic/Protestant church fomented Jew hatred to Nazi ideology. De Gobineau’s “ideas” are a mere side bar to the fact that racism was unheard of in Europe, especially in the 19th century, due to the racially homogeneous population. However, as mentioned in R38, bigotry was culturally entrenched and enthusiastically practiced all over Europe, as it had been for centuries. As it still is.

[quote] the ostrich method is popular, so Europeans tend to think hiding their head in the ground will alleviate any problems

R60 Europeans have had 1,500 years of experience that the “ostrich method” works best when dealing with yet another war/invasion/occupation, in that if we ignore them, they’ll eventually go away. Not even genocide compelled Europeans to raise their heads and take notice.

German porn does not equal German sex that people have in their bedrooms.

As for Europeans sweeping racism under the rug, they’re not the ones who don’t want to teach critical race theory. I grew up in Germany and spent 10 years learning about Hitler and his atrocities. We visited KZs, WW2 Memorials, and we visited with Jewish survivors who told us their stories. I don’t see that happening in the US.

I agree with the sentiment that Europeans trust their governments and their elected officials. They also don’t care about their sex lives or private lives.

Nudity is normal at the right place and time which doesn’t mean that I’ve seen all of my German friends and family members naked.

Europeans don’t wear pajama pants when they leave the house to go to the doctor or supermarket.

Most Americans are terribly uneducated about Nazi Germany, especially the moronic poster who insists that it was only about killing all Jews, which couldn’t be further from the truth.

[quote] America was founded by religious fundamentalists who hated the fact that they could not impose their views on the rest of the population and therefore decided to go off and try to create a country in their own image.

Not all of the original thirteen colonies were founded as religious plantations.

"I grew up in Germany and spent 10 years learning about Hitler and his atrocities. We visited KZs, WW2 Memorials, and we visited with Jewish survivors who told us their stories. I don’t see that happening in the US."

There's probably a reason for that. I think it's "because the United States weren't the fucking Nazis."

[quote] Let's not forget the expansion of the Moors/ Ottoman Empire into continental Europe, which wasn't actually that long ago. The siege of Vienna was 1683.

The Ottoman Muslims were late to the party. The Mongols rode all the way from Mongolia, invading Central Europe in 1241, defeating the Hungarians, and slaughtering half the population of Hungary. Then they kept on agoin' all the way to Vienna, where they were finally defeated.

"Most Americans are terribly uneducated about Nazi Germany, especially the moronic poster who insists that it was only about killing all Jews, which couldn’t be further from the truth."

Oh, okay, it was about killing all Jews (and gypsies and gays and various other 'degenerates') and then a bunch of other equally hideous stuff that I don't really give a flying fuck about. Feel better?

This is like the argument from White American Southerners that the American Civil War was about "states rights". No, cunt, it was about slavery. The states wanted to excute their right - to retain slavery. That was the issue. Endy fuckin story.

[quote] I think it's "because the United States weren't the fucking Nazis."

No, the US simply enabled the fucking Nazis by refusing to save Jews from extermination.

[quote] Europeans are slightly above it if you ask me. Europeans didn't displace the peoples of their own continent, unlike Americans

Instead, they put "undesirables" in gas chambers or shipped them off to concentration camps.

Yeah, and ran around the world subjugating people for fun and profit R86.

All while declaring war on each other every ten minutes or so.

R87, exactly. And conflicts like Bosnia and Kosovo were not that long ago.

r25 small government which began with Reagan administration, was about killing programs and curbing government spending that benefited the people so that more money could be allocated to the military industrial complex. It was also about funneling money to corporate welfare like oil companies research and development. The government didn't shrink, it was reallocated toward the rich, tax breaks and corporations.

R87 And THEY were late to the party. Muslims had invaded/conquered the Iberian Peninsula by the 8th century, much of Africa by the 10th century.

[quote]In Europe, they are not as quick to let you in, but when they do it is meaningful

New Yorkers are like this as well

R84, you should get help. You're unhinged. And still very uneducated.

There are a few thinsg Europeans assume that I would like to challenge.

"America is a young country." No, actually, it's the oldest continuous constitutional democracy in the world. Italy is a young country. It was unified only in 1871. Yeah, they have a lot of old buildings. That's not what actually makes a country.

Then there's the old buildings bit. "Nothing in America is older than 200 years" Boston is older than St. Petersburg. And let's not start in with Native American sites such as Acoma Pueblo, which date back approximately 1200 years.

"The American left wing is the European right wing". Until Bernie Saunders demands we all call him "Sir" this is garbage too.

Violence pervades American life. Don't think any European countries come close.

Many years ago Edmund White lived in Paris, he noted that people often commented on how frequently Americans smiled. He answered that the ubiquitous American smile was a reflex to stave off the possibility of hostility/violence that was ever present.

[quote]There's probably a reason for that. I think it's "because the United States weren't the fucking Nazis."

r82 they may not have been Nazis but to Black Americans and their ancestors and to the Indigenous peoples and their ancestors they are monsters of a different sort.

You have never been in a UK city on a Friday night, then, R94. We're talking Night of the Living and Vomiting and Brawling Dead. I've never seen anything nearly as gruesome in New York.

Evidently Americans smiling comes from the sweep of the early 20th century self-help movement started by people like Dale Carnegie who proclaimed that if you showed yourself as friendly to strangers it was easier to communicate with them. Prior to that they were just as dour as the Europeans were.

Americans are eternal optimists. We are descended from people who gave up everything and left their families behind, often to never see them again, because they believed life would be better in America. (And for those enslaved people who were forcibly taken, they were the ones who believed that slavery would end, one day that there was a light at the end of the tunnel and a reason to keep on living.)

That is a huge leap of faith and requires a mythology to go along with it.

That optimism infuses everything we do, it's why so many Americans believe they are just one break away from being a millionaire, why (outside of Datalounge) we tend to see the bright side of things, believe in American Exceptionalism.

Europeans are the ones who did not leave, who tend to be more pessimists/realists, are not as swept up in things.

They are also still recovering from the shock of World War 2.

Germans can pronounce all the platitudes they like, but the fact that pretty much their entire senior population were Nazi mass murderers has got to fuck a county up big time.

And everyone else had collaborators in their midst. People getting raped and murdered on the regular -- Germans Boomers don't talk about how a sizable percentage of them are the result of Russian soldiers raping German women in 1945-47.

The US has its own shit, but because we are optimists we tend to downplay it all. (DL's Legion of MARY!!! excepted)

I watched this show on HBO Oh Hell. They seem more real about their eccentricity.

weight.

R92, sorry I don't much care about whatever else it was the Nazis had up their sleeve. The whole "holocaust" thing rather dominates the narrative.

If that displeases you, insert a schnitzel into your preferred orifice.

Unfortunately American optimism has turned into delusion. The idea that you are one break away from wealth has people voting against themselves and for policies that favor the wealthy. There is a rape culture and abuse culture that permeates through America. The worship of hyper masculinity in American culture helped create Incels and warped ideas about relationships and sex.

America is a sick society. The most glaring issues and the root of the sickness isn't about politics, it's about the delusions and the expectations those delusions create in the minds of white men. I say white men because society and culture is controlled and ruled by white men and their desires and has been since Europeans came to North America.

The main thing Americans are exceptional in is lying to themselves about who they are and the horrors that created their country and keep it in control of racist white men.

Nope. That gimme ye tired old discards and rejects was just a grift. A fantasy.

It wasn't optimism that inspired people to leave their native lands to come to the United States. IT WAS A GRIFT. People with nothing to lose came here and thrived in a country with a built in underclass, (blacks and red Indians).

As an example, the mother of a former President immigrated here with five dollars to her name and a wet ass.

The Puritans were the Jehovah Witnesses of their native lands and doors were shut in their creepy faces.

The only people who can claim to not be descendants of grifters, cheats and murders are the blacks who are descendants of the enslaved and First Nations who are survivors of genocide.

A lot of self-righteous Europeans on this thread.

Yes, America is a garbage fire but Europe is just as fucked up. You talk about the delusion of American exceptionalism - and I agree - but some of you sound just as deluded about Europe being superior and less racist (Sure Jan).

As someone who has taken the subway with countless European tourists over the years in NY, I can tell you that they are just as loud as flyover Americans.

All that being said - would I leave NY for Berlin or Paris or Copenhagen if I could? Absolutely 😂

Most Americans don't even believe in American exceptionalism. It was something believed in by older generations but less and less people believe it as time goes on (a pew survey was done on this recently).

Europeans seem more sensible. They seem to have a better grasp of the political issues and they act in their best interests or what they truly believe their interests to be. I watch European discussions and political debates, and they just seem smarter about stuff. I think they are practical and don't get caught up in our foolishness. We allow ourselves to be manipulated by the media. They laugh at us. Then they issue travel warnings. I feel embarrassed for us.

R93. That's a very disingenuous characterization of a "young country" in my opinion.

If we're describing only "countries" as they exist today than Germany is extremely young having only undergone reunification in the 90s. But that's a ridiculous thing to say since regime change does not equate to the birth of a new country.

Italy was only formerly unified as a single kingdom in the 19th century but the Italian peninsula has shared common culture and language since the birth of Rome. I'd argue the relationship between the Roman successor states on the peninsula was closer than that between the 13 colonies.

Nation-states as they exist today are extremely modern in comparison to most of history. It doesn't disguise the fact that American history basically stops about 400 years ago whereas most other countries have history stretching back at least 1000 years. Obviously the Native American history likely goes back an equally historic length of time but most of that's sadly gone.

“Europeans don’t wear pajama pants when they leave the house to go to the doctor or supermarket.”

I live in the UK and I see this quite often. I also sometimes see women in their dressing gown (robe?) walking along the streets. It’s very trashy, and comforting to know that it’s not just British people that do this.

In the UK some of the things they eat are disgusting, but they do sell Kerry Gold butter for a reasonable price. It's practically local.

American exceptionalism = contrarianism

We have seen this during the covid infection.

Americans did the exact opposite of what experts recommended to keep the infection contained because we "don't believe in covid".

What was the excuse in Sweden and the UK?

For obvious reasons, Americans consider themselves as Americans much more than people who live in European countries consider themselves Europeans. American identity claims a whole continent (or two) as its own, whereas Europeans think of themselves as Austrians, Belgians, English, French, German, Greek, Hungarian, Italian, Polish, Spanish, Swiss... and only quite secondarily as part of Europe. A Norwegian is European in the way that the people from the U.S. are North American, somewhat incidental to their primary national --not continental-- identity. (This is very different than the American habit of boring foreign strangers to bits with detailed information about their town, county, and state geography. Americans are Americans first in their identity; Europeans are only Europeans are, though, French or German or Italian first, and European as a distant second.

The idea that Europeans have some uniform set of views of Americans is silly. The idea that Europeans have some uniform contempt for the U.S. is also silly.

[quote]"America is a young country." No, actually, it's the oldest continuous constitutional democracy in the world. Italy is a young country. It was unified only in 1871. Yeah, they have a lot of old buildings. That's not what actually makes a country.

You're right, "America is a young country" is false claim with regards to its government. But I've never heard a European claim otherwise; they know that governments show up on timelines and change. It's heard instead from Americans as a shield against criticism, to write off any perceived mistake as youthful enthusiasm. Europeans will remark that the U.S. has a young visible history and that is quite true. HIstory and culture shape a place and recorded history in the U.S. is quite short. Acoma Pueblo? Fine, but you can't walk down the street in a U.S. city and see ruins that were seen by Caesar and Trajan, or see ancient Roman columns and Medieval stonework incorporated into buildings on every block. In the U.S. there are fewer than 150 buildings that are in part of 17thC construction; in Puerto Rico I think there are 4 buildings of 16thC construction. Those are the earliest examples of built heritage from recorded history in the U.S. -- in that sense it is a very much a young country. Europeans see New York City or Miami or L.A. in reality or in film and TV and everything looks less than two centuries old and for the most part that's quite true. Americans likewise are exposed to twee thatched cottages and stepped gables and canal houses and quaintness overload in imported views of European cities and landscapes. Is it any surprise that people like R92 thiink that Europeans "are also still recovering from the shock of World War 2" -- in their wooden shoes, wet and cold with Euro pessisim.

Europeans didn't displace the peoples

R35 you are full of it! I have come to hate Europeans.

THE EUROPEANS DISPLACED THE NATIVE AMERICANS THERE WAS NO AMERICA, THE EUROPEANS DID ALL THIS! Do you know history at all? Or do you just want to blast America? What a entitlement, but typical euro snotty attitude.

Europeans didn't displace the peoples

R35 you are full of it!

THE EUROPEANS DISPLACED THE NATIVE AMERICANS THERE WAS NO AMERICA, THE EUROPEANS DID ALL THIS! Do you know history at all? Or do you just want to blast America? What a entitlement, but typical euro snotty attitude.

Honey, it was grifters, rapists and murderers from Europe who are responsible for the"displacement" of First Nation people.

For the US, WW2 only started in 1941.

They're just bitter because they're going under and failing big time. Immigrants now now fuel crisis, everything bad has come from Europe yet they blame Americans. Typical.

R80 Europeans do not teach CRT. Germany is a whole other kit and kaboodle due to their fairly recent past, but that's not all of Europe.

The fundamental difference is that in America everyone is encouraged to invent or re-invent themselves. Whether it's the idea of the melting pot or relocating half way across the country to start a 'new life' we are generally not tethered to our histories, communities, etc. So a couple hundred million caterpillars all eager and ready to transition to butterflies.

The myth is we all have a butterfly within us.

Having thought about this one, reinvention was a necessity for people running from their past.

As a Latin American, both Americans AND Europeans have plenty of blood on their hands, racist and otherwise.

Hygiene.

R121. Are you talking about colonization or something else?

Europe is not as obsessed with it as America is, r122.

Yes we like to be clean, not smelly like I heard the Germans are, do they not have water? No water, now no gas, boy Europe has come far!

Yes we like to be clean, not smelly like I heard the Germans are, do they not have water? No water, now no gas, boy Europe has come far!

Europeans are more chic and have better dicks.

Easy self-confidence and self-assurance on the American side. Younger Europeans are often similar to Americans but as they age they soon become old farts. Big big difference between a relaxed 50-year-old American and a stiff French/German.

What was true decades ago just isn't true anymore. The stereotypes are outdated all around.

This is one for the Brits- what is the canned cheese thing about? It seems to be some fixation where Brits have to accuse Americans of eating canned cheese at any opportunity.... we don't? What is this?

Europeans always come across as intensely bigoted but passive aggressive about it. Americans are more open minded in general and definitely more open to being wrong about something or admitting ignorance.

[quote] What was true decades ago just isn't true anymore. The stereotypes are outdated all around.

Welcome to Datalounge

Which makes us seem dumb sometimes, who wants to admit to being wrong? Few I reckon.

Everything in the daily life of Americans is designed to be disposable. Our level of waste is bad for us culturally and bad for the planet. Americans are also more judgmental and convinced their way is by far the best way.

I spend my summers in Europe but I will admit and am proud to be the best American I can be.

America= evil, inferior, diseased, subhuman. Even if you have to lie or misinterpret to make that happen.

R120 As do you, Latin American.

90% of European men have intact dongs with foreskin, while 70% of American men have mutilated dongs that lead to some severe mental illnesses in half of American incels.

R36 Those laws are largely due to the failure of unions here. Union rules favor nonproductive and poorly behaved workers. I will never work in another union shop because of how dysfunctional the ones I've worked in have been.

You end up having the work of the entire business dumped on a handful of people while half the staff spends their day on their phones if they ever bother showing up to begin with. The union rules are so lax they can continue this ad infinitum as long as they space out their write ups quarter to quarter.

Working class voters in the U.S. actually vote against unions reliably because they're seen as corrupt and useless.

R102 Oh DEAR! Spoken out of wholesale ignorance 🤣

J.R.R Tolkien on Americans:

"Art moves them and they don’t know what they’ve been moved by and they get quite drunk on it. Many young Americans are involved in the stories in a way that I am not.

But they do use this sometimes as a means against some abomination. There was one campus, I forget which, where the council of the university pulled down a very pleasant little grove of trees to make way for what they called a “Culture Center” out of some sort of concrete blocks. The students were outraged. They wrote “another bit of Mordor” on it."

– New York Times

This sums up Americans for me. They're an emotional , immature people but at the same time amazing in the way that teenagers can, occasionally be amazing.

As for Europeans... The national spirit changes withe each culture. An Irish person and a German are more different from one another than an Irish person and an American.

R46 A nuanced opinion that I'd say is fairly accurate. So tailgating- Americans and Canadians use our cars a lot of ways people in other countries wouldn't because we're constantly in them and our cities are designed to accommodate cars. Tailgating is fun and easy here. In other places I'm sure it seems weird and unnecessary, and people would wonder why you need your car involved at all.

Electric kettles

On average, 46 pounds of fat.

R141 We have electric kettles. They are often called water boilers and people use them for pour-over style coffee.

Why would a country that doesn't drink hot tea have those everywhere?

Americans think all Europeans would love to become American citizens. Most Europeans are horrified at the idea of living in America.

R144 Europeans spend inordinate amounts of time building up a fake image of Americans in their heads and convincing themselves they can read our minds. You could just ask...

I can say that that's not a common perception here and most Americans have interacted with Europeans enough in some way to know that we are regarded as inferior.

Americans won’t be sitting 🪑 in the cold and dark this winter 🥶.

LOUD. I have to scream at my American MIL who has a hearing aid. She doesn’t talk, she screams. She’s in the majority.

Five times as many churches in any given European city, and five times less religious fanaticism.

R135 Me? No. I don't have blood on my hands, personally. Latin Americans in general? Sure.

Considerate Americans overseas are sort of like Harvard grads: you try to be quiet about it less the great unwashed think you're trying to lord it over them.

Neo hit it right on the head

The biggest difference? Defecation in their pornography?

Nice natural dicks.

We killed 19 women for witchcraft and then wrote a bunch of plays and movies and books about it.

They killed 80,000 and said, "But what about Salem?!"

R151 We do genuinely have lots and lots of guns. Where I live going to the gun range with a friend is a fun social activity like going bowling. Airsoft and paintballing are extensions of the same thing.

Having lived 45 years in Europe and having come back here a few years ago and as someone who is planning to move back to Europe before I'm too old, main differences are Europe is secular, Bible thumpers don't dominate social and political discourse. Europeans, being used to having reliable social safety networks, are less freaked out than Americans. Americans are ridiculously consumerist: they'll buy any shit as long as it's cheap. Europeans don't run up monumental credit card bills like Americans do. Gay rights aren't subject to Bible thumpers and racism is low-key. European cops don't murder people for driving while black. And of course no fucking guns.

How is the persistent belief in the superiority of Europe not white supremacist? That's what white supremacy is.

R157 has never been to Europe.

R158 I have.

R159 Europeans don't sit around thinking "Europeans are better than every other race!" Americans do that shit because we've all got chips on our shoulders. Europeans think: "fuck those Germans!", "fuck those Italians!", "fuck those roastbeef!" depending on what nationality they are.

Of course the French think all three of those! "Il n'y a point comme nous!" The French ARE the world's most xenophobic, obnoxious people ever. And racism has nothing to do with it. They hate every other country on the planet. And if they're Parisian, they hate French provinciaux. If they're from the South of France, they hate people from everywhere north of Lyon.

Let's think about this... We had four years of trump and almost, but didn't fall apart. Europe will freeze to death and are cutting the lights out, because of short sighted and pure GREED for cheap gas. Enjoy the pain, you deserve it.

R162 I live in Texas. You think WE aren't going to freeze to death this winter with our fucking broken powergrid Hot Wheels never got fixed? We better not have a cool snap.

I don't know what your problem with Europeans is, but you're full of shit.

"cheap gas"? WTF? You've never bought gas in Europe....

I'd say looks is the biggest difference

Americans are monstrously obese - obesity is rare in Europe.

The truest thing was OP's statement - Europeans are much less puritanical about sex.

If they still smoke wherever they want I love them.

Americans prize "freedom to." Freedom to have automatic weapons, stomp around in public wearing Nazi drag, etc. Europeans prize "freedom from." From going broke due to medical bills, losing your job due to work-at-will laws, and not being murdered in a supermarket, magazine office, yoga studio, school, church, etc., by a mass shooter. That's the key difference to me.

Octoroons

R150 I think you meant 'lest the great unwashed', perhaps you're a Virginia Tech grad?

R171 No, throwing in the occasional small slip or two is a form of affected modesty. Especially on a board like this.

R5 says, “ Europeans didn't displace the peoples of their own continent, unlike Americans.”

Pretty sure it was Europeans who did the original displacing, thus creating a culture that manifested itself into the 19th century.

R173 we're in the 21st century, dollface, so Americans' problems have nothing to do with Europeans.

Which is why the 19th century was singularly mentioned.

The race which believes most zealously in their own superiority isn't European but Japanese. They fought a whole war to prove it.

Americans think they are the center of the world; that all spins in orbit around them; that everyone wants to be American or fuck Americans or both; that everything is a competition and that even when the USA loses it still wins because everyone else loses more.

Europeans realize the earth spins on with or without them; that there are other nations with other people in different places doing different things to different ends or maybe the same; they know most of the world doesn't know enough about Belgium or Spain or Czech Republic or France or Greece to want to be them or even to fuck them; they know that they are a part of something, not the one and only big cheese that everyone wants a crumb of; they know that contests of "biggest" and "most" will often be won by other countries (whether population, waistline, number of guns, etc.)

[quote] Americans are monstrously obese - obesity is rare in Europe.

No it is not. Maybe decades ago but not now. The UK's obesity rate is increasing faster than America's is.

R160 White is European. That's what it is.

[quote] everyone wants to be American or fuck Americans

No and no. I don't want to be mutilated and I prefer natural dick.

In the Netherlands you can happily whack off in a porn theater. In Florida…………

R178. I wonder if that's because America has hit some sort of ceiling in obesity rate.

Because for reference the US is 12th in the world in terms of obesity. The UK is 36th.

A growing rate just reflects the disparity between the two countries. Brits are going to have to eat a lot of junk to catch up to where Americans are at.

Far far far up in this thread someone made the most pertinent point. Educated and thoughtful Americans are very similar to educated and thoughtful Europeans, and have a similar interest in other cultures and openness to reinterpretations of history and culture. Poorly educated people on either continent are generally xenophobic, "rah rah" about their own nations, ignorant about the history of their own countries , dismissive of the culture of others, and closed to open encounters with foreigners.

There are 94+ million college-educated people in the US. 40% of US citizens have attended some amount of college. Many of those didn't get the optimal benefit from their educations, but they have mostly had to study some literature, some history, some philosophy, some math, and, although terrible at it, some foreign language. There are also many many highly educated Americans. There are about 500,000 college faculty members in the US. 1.3 million lawyers. 60,000 doctors. There are lots of authors, editors, journalists, philosophers, and other professionals whose professions demand a certain level of smarts. Most of those are not at all blind to the deficiencies they see around them, many of which have been mentioned above. But neither do they have anything to apologize about their own attainments. They read, attend a wide variety of cultural events, art, dance, music, theater, they keep up to date with world events. Again, they have much in common with their European counterparts with similar educations and not much in common with the marginally educated in either location.

In my own field, classical music, I have worked side by side with musical artists from every country of Europe. Immediately, they recognize my training as completely equivalent to theirs in every way, because the proof is in the pudding in my profession, and we recognize that we speak the same language with the same degree of fluency regardless of our nations of origin. Europeans have the benefit of wonderful subsidized art everywhere.....and yet, the general populace is more excited about going to football matches, just as their American counterparts would rather go to sports events than to cultural events. Our jobs, here at DL as well as when we are out in the world, is to nudge our peers to live more examined lives, rather than to sink down into a pool of mediocrity and superficiality.

Most Americans only know or care about American films and music.

I'm watching the German/EU Netflix show 1899, and it's a slog. I'm hoping the payoff will be worth it, but oy, so slow.

Europeans have feathers whereas Americans have long bushy tails.

If it weren’t for slavery, America would be much more like Europe.

Healthcare.

R183, great post.

R166- Not in the UK 🇬🇧

Europeans are often more open about or more oblivious to their own snobbery.

See R183.

America goes for peanuts whereas Europe prefers hazelnuts.

[quote]Europeans are often more open about or more oblivious to their own snobbery.

I think it's more that Europeans have a confidence, if you will, that comes from not having put themselves forward as "We're Number One" in everything, of not having claimed to be the biggest, the best, the brightest, the boldest. They don't worry about what others think of France, or Germany, or Spain; they don't see themselves in a competition with other countries, they don't worry that every foreigner they meet is sizing them for the equivalent of a Green Card; they don't expect other people to be deeply interested in their opinions on [name any subject.]

Americans think the rest of the world is excited to meet an American and has lots of questions for them about what it's like to be the biggest and best at everything -- and frankly they're a little disappointed when a queue doesn't promptly form. They don't understand and that's why they talk so loudly when they travel, to give poor unfortunates from other lands the opportunity to meet a real live American citizen. Europeans go out into the street or the bigger world beyond confident that no one is going to ask them about what Austria thinks of the problem in Ukraine and why Austria isn't even in the Top 15 GDP Countries and why don't they have more guns and more school shootings and more Austrian actors in action films? It's the confidence of knowing that no one is going to ask about competitions that they are not part of.

Europeans capitalized on Christianity, industrialized it, used it to set out roots throughout the world and then realized it's a buncha bullshit, while the rest of the world they colonized remains addicted to it.

I think I'm going to have to duck out of this thread. It's making me racist against Europeans. What disgusting people!

Europeans are crowded and care about the planet and Americans are spread out and believe we still have plenty of Earth to kill.

Posted by someone who has never had the displeasure of living in the central European countryside.

Stop being so obsessed 🤩 with America, get a fucking life

R183. I absolutely agree about that. On an individual level there are probably few differences between Americans and Europeans. Education makes all the difference.

But I still maintain there are cultural differences that are worth pointing out. Whether it's the saccharine media produced by the US, the lack of national healthcare, the game show that is American politics, or the disproportionate power attributed to corporations in the US (and a corresponding lack of workers' rights), there is something different about America compared to Europe.

Whatever few differences do exist between Europeans and Americans are clearly stark ones. Something is dreadfully wrong in the US if, despite such a highly qualified population, the disparity between rich and poor is worse than almost any other country.

I am 44. Throughout my life until Trump came along, UK politics were depicted as ridiculously childish, with elected officials calling one another silly insults in Parliament. Our politics in the US always have been dirty but relatively civil in terms of public discourse. And then Trump came along and everything went to hell, including both meaningful corruption and childish antics among politicians.

OP is an idiot.

I have lived in four countries, the USA, UK, Ireland and Germany.

OP says nothing of value and has no insight to share.

R1 “Americans don't make excuses or apologies for our racism. We can acknowledge that it is a feature of our culture.”

That’s not true. Racism has been a great denial even during slavery. White Americans hate to admit racism.

R202 Compared to Europeans, who refuse to admit to being the definition of whiteness that the lightskinned colonials are constantly striving to achieve.

The bootlicking Euro-worship on this thread is vomit inducing.

[quote] I think it's more that Europeans have a confidence, if you will, that comes from not having put themselves forward as "We're Number One" in everything, of not having claimed to be the biggest, the best, the brightest, the boldest. They don't worry about what others think of France, or Germany, or Spain

History and present conditions contradict nearly all of this. The EU is a political arrangement which allows both France and Germany to feel like the big shots they believe themselves to be.

American hookers are tacky and only like Kardashian whores, but European hookers are classy and make it all the way to First Lady!

R204. That's true but I think there's always been a feeling/perception of almost familial rivalry in Europe. Historically, the ruling classes of Europe were family really, and the freedom of movement the EU affords gives citizens a broad perspective. I've always found it so fascinating that so many Europeans speak two or more languages which adds to that feeling of cultural confluence. That is a big difference between Europe and even Britain and America.

Whereas Americans have a need to be "number one" that feels a lot more desperate and insecure. I do get it, in a sense America is incredibly lonely, or at least there's a feeling that it is.

I actually think geography plays a big role in that. Although, Mexico is just across the border but the US has never gotten on that well with Latin America for some reason.

Dumb asses, I was talking about the NATURAL GAS, not petrol, and yes the Europeans have subjugated the rest of the world, what is it that you don't understand? Stay the hell in Texas please, and freeze again, bitch, typical entitled Texas attitude. We hear it all the time.

Dumb asses, I was talking about the NATURAL GAS, not petrol, and yes the Europeans have subjugated the rest of the world, what is it that you don't understand? Stay the hell in Texas please, and freeze again, bitch, typical Texas attitude.

Europeans are pompous assholes

Europeans are extremely oblivious to their own faults. See R193 as an example of snobbery while denying European snobbery.

They also lack accountability. I've actually read European posters on different sites try to blame the Ukraine oil crisis on the US.

Guns. Right-wing Bible thumpers. Those are two huge, tragic differences right there.

Look at American cities vs. Western European cities. Americans typically trash and burn and move on. Europeans know they have to protect the cities they have because their countries are already overpopulated and there's no empty space for them to move onto. European families also have fewer children, largely because housing is limited. Certain segments of the US population reproduce like rabbits - Christian evangelicals, etc. - already taxing the resources of a tired planet. The US bans abortion in numerous states. Abortion is legal in all of Western Europe. Even Ireland finally threw in the towel.

Snip : Eggplant :: No Snip : Aubergine

it is sad when all you can bring to a fight is a knife

Two weeks ago, everyone here was convinced Albie would rape Portia and now everyone says he is too soft not to have his feelings hurt by a hooker.

You've stumbled on the wrong scene

R210, I wasn't commenting on snobbery but on the American perspective of everything as a competition in which they must win (whereas Germans, Greeks, Czechs, don't have the view vantage as the orbit around which all else spins.)

R217 Why yes. As the ongoing World Cup so clearly demonstrates.

Let's face it: Americans have inferiority complexes vis-a-vis Europe. We're a melting pot country which melted badly and ended up as a mess. The Fall of the American Empire was signaled by the election of Trump. We're OVAH.

I don't feel inferior to Europe. I feel annoyed by the fact that they can't accept responsibility for their wrong doings or mistakes.

Europe reminds me of my prissy spinster sister-smug, self righteous, never admits she's wrong.

[quote]Why yes. As the ongoing World Cup so clearly demonstrates.

The World Cup is a textbook example of a competition.

Some things that are not textbook examples of competition: GDP, commute time, longevity, rate of survival at childbirth, obesity, gun ownership, tipping customs, average house size, free drink refills at fast food restaurants, percentage of citizens incarcerated, school shootings...

World Cup let’s the cat out of the bag that Nationalism is a disease that infects the entire world

R162

You tell ‘em!

Signed,

Texas

R183

Sorry to be nit picky but there are over a million US doctors currently practicing, not 60k.

I don't know where to find this information r224. When I used google, I got this number - actually one source said 60,000, the other 75,000However, statista dot com agrees with your figure, which, to be fair, sounds about right to me too.

R194 You hit the nail on the head. Ever been to the Philippines? Religious morons as far as the eye can see.

Religious mania is common in primitive societies which the US has become.

The number of atheists is increasing while the number of hardcore Evangelicals is shrinking.

The fact that if an American politician admitted he or she is an atheist, they could never be elected reminds me of Tony Blair's comment when an interviewer asked him if he was religious. He told them he was a devout Catholic. The interview: well, why don't you speak about your religious beliefs? Blair: because people would think I'm a nutter.

Europe started two World Wars. Enough said.

R230 and the US has been very busy indeed in Korea, Vietnam, fucking Grenada! and of course Afghanistan and Iraq.

Wow, this thread is filled with all kinds of errors.

For example, one poster claimed that people were more likely to become homeless than a millionaire in the U.S. Fact--there are roughly half a million homeless in the United States, but there are 22 million millionaires.

There's poverty in the United States, but the wealth gap isn't because Americans are so poor, but because the richest Americans are crazily rich.

Even poor Americans will have indoor plumbing (over 99 percent of Americans do), most have smart phones (84 percent). Food, clothing and energy are all relatively cheap compared to the rest of the world.

And while there are plenty of dumb Americans, calling us uneducated isn't really correct--the majority of the world's top universities are in the United States. Yes, universities are free in many European countries, but the flip side of that is that access to them is limited and, generally, a smaller percentage of people go to university. I think American university tuitions have spiraled way out of control in the past 20 years (and college debt is a huge factor in limiting social mobility), but Europe is not some paradise of higher education.

Attacking Americans over the environment is also a little iffy, particularly since the environmental movement got its start here and we managed to protect a reasonable chunk of the west before it was destroyed. Europe has far less biodiversity. And while we've got a long ways to go on carbon emissions, there are actually European countries with higher emissions per capita than the U.S. (and also our neighbor to the north, Canada, has higher per capita emissions).

Anyway, I'd say the biggest differences between Americans and Europeans are the result of geography. The United States has two neighbors, neither of whom is any kind of threat--we're very rich and we're basically protected. And, yes, we are number one in some key ways--biggest economy (nearly a quarter of the world's GDP), biggest navy, biggest air force. We can, as a country, kind of do what we want without having to worry about invasion or famine or not having energy. This does give us a certain kind of freedom and self-absorption. If you don't like your neighbors, you can just move to some place more your style. So, yes, there are lots of gun nuts, but there are also a lot of places where most people don't own guns (I live in one).

I've found Europeans don't really understand how our states work--that our day-to-day lives are more dependent on state and local governments rather than what the fed does. Yet, at the same time, our being one country makes commerce and travel extremely easy.

One last thing, yes, the Columbian Exchange/colonisation killed a lot of people, but the Mongol invasions killed 10 percent of the world's population. European colonialism has a lot to answer for, but history is full of genocidal horror shows. Europe and Asia have produce some amazing things culturally, but the invasions and counterinvasions are relentless, they've been happening since the beginning of history and continue to this day. Pretty much everyone has been a guilty party at one point or another.

R232. I'm sorry, but Americans actually are really poor. There may be 22 million millionaires (I didn't check whether that's accurate) but there are 37.9 million people in poverty.

17.3 million live in deep poverty, with incomes 50% below poverty thresholds.

And almost 30% of Americans, 93.6 million, live close to poverty. 11.1% of US households live with food insecurity. I believe this is after we take into account government programs to lift people out of poverty and keep them fed, but that may be incorrect. Still, the numbers are pretty damning.

Importantly, the poverty thresholds seem pretty damn low if you ask me. Certainly that's the point, but that so many people are basically living below a livable wage is just tragic. Moreover, the US is a country where around 66.5% of bankruptcy filings are attributed to medical costs. 100 million people live with medical debt in the US, and 50% of Americans don't have the cash to cover an unexpected $500 health care bill, according to that KFF poll from a while back.

Add in student debt, mortgages, whatever other loans going around and Americans are seemingly drowning in debt. The rich may be filthy rich, but I would suggest that's because they're bankrupting the poor for everything they have.

I would also suggest having a look at the tool on this website. You can add countries to compare levels of extreme poverty. The US is shockingly high compared to countries like France, Germany, Belgium, or even the UK.

They behave really inappropriately at times. I don’t mean being subtlety offensive but they do things like walk up to native Americans in shopping malls and ask to take pictures with them. Or cosplay as them. Also they don’t always speak English fluently and miss the point in conversation but try telling them that.

R233, Poverty is relative--this is why I pointed out that more than 99 percent of Americans have indoor plumbing. Food insecurity is not the same as famine. Those poor kids also have access to some sort of free schooling. Do I think we could use a better safety net? Absolutely. I'm old enough to remember when there was one and Reagan's demonization of poor Blacks (while ignoring, as we still ignore, the fact that there were more poor whites).

Are the safety nets better in the richer European countries? Absolutely. But the handwringing I see over the poverty in the United States has a certain naivete about it.

Which brings me back to the issue with Europeans not understanding how states work. Living conditions, life expectancy, education in, say, Mississippi are radically different than in Massachuesetts. American life expectancy is lower than in most European countries. However, states such as Hawaii and California have life expectancies up there with the Scandinavian countries.

The United States is *big*--not only do Massachuessetts and Mississippi have very different approaches to social issues, they're far apart physically. Despite the EU, Europeans don't really judge Belgium by what's going on in Albania. Californians don't have much in common with West Virginians.

In some ways, it's not surprising we have lots of intramural spats, it's more surprising that we hold it together as well as we do. That, by the way, is one of the reasons for the rah-rah patriotism that Europeans find so obnoxious. We need that sort of thing to maintain some sort of unity--we've already had one really grim civil war and we'd rather not fall into Europe's habit of endless wars.

One thing not mentioned is that the public school system in the US, far from being designed to educate kids in "subjects" is primarily an instrument of socialization. People from highly disparate backgrounds (different ethnic origins, different religions, different social classes) are educated in the same schoolrooms and are taught that they are Americans first. This aim has broken down somewhat with the rapid increase in private schools and with the segregation of schools by economic class (school zones). but still the principle remains. This system was deliberate in design, American educators and politicians looked to European models, and realized that Europeans, by an large, identify with their specific ethnic origin and the language spoken in their homes. This is one reason why 3rd generation Turks are still not well-integrated into German society and gypsies are segregated in every European society they are part of. That human impulse to tribalism had to be broken in America, because the nation was founded by people from all over the globe - and certainly, initially by people all over Europe. If they were to get along, they had to identify as something other than their ethnic origin. It's still an experiment - that's one reason why they call America "an experiment in democracy". Europeans, by and large, don't identify themselves as being European. They identify themselves as German, Spanish, French, Italian, English. They can easily visit other countries because they are not far from one another, but that doesn't change their identity in their own minds. . In the US, (and Canada for that matter), people of school age are sitting next to other people whose ancestry spans the globe and by being forced to play together on the playground, they learn that those other people are human too. The rate of intermarriage of different ethnic groups is in fact the most common kind of marriage in the US and Canada.

[quote] Europeans, by and large, don't identify themselves as being European.

They do on DL.

All Europeans have no right to bitch and complain, they have started more wars and killed more people than America ever has, they even came across the ocean here and proceeded to anililate the natives, then they blame America, quite deliberately they killed the native Americans in fact. So they need to shut the fuck up and feel the cold and pain this winter.

Railworkers in the US want to have 7 days paid sick leave a year. Eyes roll all over Europe.

OP says “having lived on both continents” and then proceeds to talk about the United States as if it was a continent, and about Europe as if it was a country. And of course, Americans on this thread are only too happy to speak for the entire North American continent. European countries have a lot less in common with each other than states in the U.S. - different languages, different cultures, different history, different economy, etc. And yes, different attitudes to sex and PDA. Countries like Bulgaria and Sweden, for example, have at least as many differences between each other as any of them has with the U.S. And as someone (meningitisluvguy?) on this thread mentioned, most people living in European countries identify themselves primarily by their country of origin, and it wouldn’t even occur to them to say “we Europeans” in the way that Americans say “we Americans.”

The United States never experienced feudalism. That explains a lot about the difference between it and the nations of Europe. There really isn’t the same class system in the U.S. For example, in the US money not any breeding or culture puts you at the top in society. Very different from Europe where refinement and culture still matter. Even the richest American will act more like some regular Joe than an aristocrat. Also, just inheriting money and being rich is not enough. You have to make even more money to get respect from the masses. The richest men in the US will give their money away to charity when they die. Leaving huge fortunes to your children is seen as gross because it takes away their ambition.

R161

« Il n’y a point comme nous » ?

Apprends déjà à parler français, pauvre cloche.

Qu’est ce que c’est que cette merde? Ce n’est même pas du français, ça ne veut rien dire!

N’importe quoi, pourvu que ça mousse!

Dis-donc, tu déconnes. Va te faire voir espèce de connard.

To me the main issue is the existence of the Death Penalty, abolished in some european countries in the 19th century. No civlilized country has it, it is barbaric. Gun culture (and inability to solve the problem) comes second.

R244. Yes, there's a really interesting book I read which starts by looking at the abolishment of the death penalty, alongside torture and other barbarities inflicted on the body.

It's startling how quickly we went from drawing and quartering people to putting them into regimented prisons.

As an American for whom Europe is home, a couple observations:

AT-WILL EMPLOYMENT is the one thing that simply does not compute. If I explain the concept and give examples of how it works, the looks of incredulity are profound. "How could that possibly be true? How could that be allowed?" Employment contracts and professional/occupational qualification (as a journalist, an art conservator, a medical records clerk, a forklift operator...) are the basis of one's long-term employment security and beyond into retirement. The idea that a U.S. employer could, for example, weed out and fire workers of many years experience (artfully, so as to avoid any demonstrable evidence of ageism) to replace them with cheaper, fresher-faced college grads or trainees who may take years to reach full benefit status is incredible for many Europeans.

RACISM. "Americans don't make excuses or apologies our racism. We can acknowledge that it is a feature of our culture." and, from, R97 "Americans are eternal optimists. We are descended from people who gave up everything and left their families behind...because they believed life would be better in America. (And for those enslaved people who were forcibly taken, they were the ones who believed that slavery would end, one day that there was a light at the end of the tunnel and a reason to keep on living.)" Thank you, Tucker Carlson. How many times have I heard Americans in Europe stumble (or not) in describing people who have never been to the U.S. as "African-Americans." Pressed, they know the identification is wrong but carry on from some misplaced politesse, thinking that to refer to someone as African or as Black (or even extending the concept to Afro-European) as the case may be is insensitive; or maybe they just think they are being kind and extending the "-American" tag beyond their borders?

Of course racism exists in Europe, but in different ways than the U.S.. Just as Americans might impose "African American" on a person who is neither, Americans impose their ideas of racial injustice on Europe, principally in the form of a Black/White divide. The U.S. has a Black population of about 12%; in Europe it ranges from Poland with 0.01% Black to France with 8.43% , next is Portugal with 4.35%, UK with 3.95%, Belgium with 3.57%, Sweden with 3.05%, 6 countries with either 1%+ or 2%+, and the rest less than 1%. With only 8 countries that have a Black population of 2% or more in Europe, Europeans and Americans have a quite different perspectives on race and the weight of the issue falls far heavier in the U.S. It comes back to Americans' tendency to see themselves as the enter of all things, as Number One even when it doesn't reflect well.

One thing I've always noticed about Americans who move to Europe is how utterly mediocre they are. Always plain to downright ugly and average intelligence at best, they really have nothing interesting about them except money.

[quote]a stiff French/German.

Pics, please!

R247 most of my fellow Americans I met in Europe were middle-rank administrative types. Americans can't move to Europe without having a work/residency permit and they tended to be people recruited in the US by US aka multinational companies. Lot of accountants.

The Thiaroye massacre was a massacre of French West African veterans of the 1940 Battle of France, by French forces on the morning of 1 December 1944.

These Tirailleurs Sénégalais units had been recently liberated from prisoner camps and after being repatriated to West Africa, they mutinied against poor conditions and defaulted pay at the Thiaroye military camp, on the outskirts of Dakar, Senegal. Between 35 and over 300 people were killed.

American culture on the whole prizes sports and competition ahead of education. Americans measure everything in terms of strength, might, winning.

The lack of upspeak that infests every American under 50 years of age!

Americans have perfect teeth but weigh a lot more.

Foreskin

Around 70% of the American adult population are grossly obese now R253.

One of the big differences I notice is conspiracy theories. Americans are obsessed with insane conspiracy theories. Europeans are not. It has a lot to do with the poor education standards of the US.

American public schools spend way too much time on sports and extracurricular activities and way, way too little teaching useful subjects.

R256 God yes. The amount of my time wasted in school on completely useless information is mind boggling. Without exaggeration, I could have cut my classroom time in half and still graduated.

R257 I always found it odd how in middle and high school (in the US) we had to suffer through all this crazy math (algebra with the XY squared bullshit and geometry) that most people never use in the real world but were never taught how credit cards or mortgages work,

Foreskin

There is something very wrong with the way history/civics is taught in America. People in other countries--countries with a thousand years of documented history or more--know their own country's history but they often also know some of this history of the United States. We in the United States don't even know what's going on in our own states sometimes.

Dillinger Capitalism = USA. Universal Health Care and deep public infrastructures for everybody = Europe

Hard work to the point of overworking, autonomy, and initiative = USA Balance and rules and procedures = Europe

Diarrhea of the mouth with no shame = USA Public face and try to say something thoughtful = Europe

The puritans came to America.

And they’ve been obsessed with sex, guns and money ever since. Had to keep the indigenous people down who they stole from and then the slaves they kidnapped. That’s what it’s all about for Americans and it still is.

[quote]They are even brainwashed to believe they are not brainwashed.

But are they brainwashed to believe they’re not brainwashed to believe they’re not brainwashed?

Puritans were know for being obsessed with guns and money? That's a serious question, I know nothing of Puritan history

R261 = stereotypical arrogant Euro trash with a chip on his / her shoulder

Good thread.

How do Brits/UKers see themselves in terms of being "European"? How do other Europeans see them in that regard? The UK always strikes me as sort of a half-way point between European and American. But I say this as an American who has been to London and Manchester (on the same trip) once in my life.

"I think some the Americanisms are hard to grasp, like organising a barbecue out of your trunk on a parking lot."

I spit out my coffee reading this. Actually laughed.

My first thought was:

Webster's Dictionary: Tailgating (verb): "organizing a barbecue out of your trunk on a parking lot."

"Conversation is different. American culture can be like talking to a brand representative, focused on positive claims about themselves and "getting to know you" questions about your biography and monitoring of how the listener "took" what they said. Damage control is fatiguing: "I hope you don't think" and "Now of course, I don't mean..." To a non-American, it can come across and feeling entitled to know let alone control what other people think of you."

So many gems in this thread. "Damage control is fatiguing ..." I never thought about it because I'm American and used to it, but SO many people talk like this - telling you their thoughts, but also commentating on their own thoughts and monitoring reaction to their thoughts. People interrupt themselves a lot to place those "how am I doing?" statements in their conversation.

underarm deodorant

OK.

USA = toxic, crass and simple fragrances in the arm pits. BUT NO FRAGRANCES HOW VERY DARE YOU!!!!!

Europe = artfully created, interesting, sensual fragrances on the body, mixed with a bit of BO for seduction.

Taken as a whole, I think the thread was illuminating, explaining substantive and superficial differences, and also providing tangible examples of the good and bad traits of Americans and Europeans, American culture and European culture - while underscoring while there are some things that bind most Americans with each other and most Europeans with each other - there is a great deal of diversity under those broad categories. For Europe that obviously comes form the fact that there are so many different countries under the "European" banner.

Americans often hate the British, and the Europeans often hate British, so there's that.

R264, the Puritans, like many Protestants sects then and now, believed that pursuing material wealth was good, and thought that wealth could be a sign of God’s favor.

“Expectations of service”?

What’s wrong with expecting proper, efficient and pleasant service? I love to visit the Netherlands buf good god their service is for shit.

R273 Americans hate the French, not the Brits. And the Brits and French hate each other.

Watched Macron's interview on 60 Minutes. How refreshing to see a world leader who not only could speak intelligently about issues but do it in a language other than his own.

R268. I have never partook in tailgating and I'll say it sounds absolutely awful. Not only low class but surely it's hazardous for your health?

R275. Does America have good service? I went to NY a couple of years ago (it was actually about 5 or so) and was not impressed.

It's tough to say. America has no baseline for service. It varies drastically - depending on who is serving, where you are, etc. And Americans have drastically different opinions of what constitutes "good service." I do think overall it's gone downhill a lot since Covid - not that you can't find good service in some places.

American expectations of service and European expectations can vary widely. And among Europeans traveling from one country to another, it's commonplace to see, say, an Italian couple having lunch in a restaurant in Germany exchanging a 'well, that was odd" look about the service.

Americans, I would say have more of a time clock that starts ticking the second they walk in a door. They expect to be greeted promptly, shown to a table, given a menu, and order beverages straight away -- in seconds, not minutes. In Europe you can watch the faces of American diners fall like a souflée with each second they go unattended: Where is the greeter? Where is our table? Where is our waiter? Where is our menu? Will no one ask straight away what beverages we want? Why is no one stopping by every five minutes to ask if the food tastes good? if we need anything else? if we would want to see the dessert menu? They are accustomed to a love bombing of service and a staff about 2.5 times larger than that of a place of similar size and menu complexity in Europe. Then there's the tip business. Leave a quite modest tip in some European countries and the waiter will call you back and ask if he can bring you a shot or a cup of coffee; he will see you coming next time and give a look to signal that you should stand and wait over in that corner where the table is preparing to leave in a few minutes. Waiters are efficient and usually busy as fuck; they assume you will catch their attention if you need another drink, more food, want to pay your bill and with a credit card. If some countries if you break the ice with an observation or ask for their suggestion of what's good, they warm up immediately. They're not angling for a tip, they just don't have time to be friendly with everyone, and they wait for your cue.

Europeans in America are befuddled by choices put before them by waiters. Having picked something in the menu, they think the work is over but it's not begun. Imagine your English is fairly good but not your first language, and imagine ordering breakfast and being asked how would you like your eggs? what kind of bread for your toast? rye, whole wheat, white, sourdough, or roll? butter or margarine? jam or marmalade? sausages link or patty? home fries or hash browns? with cheese? with onions? with little bits of chopped green pepper? bacon, Canadian bacon, turkey bacon? coffee with cream or non-dairy creamer? decaf or regular? It's exhausting. And not over yet. In your half hour there, six different people will bring things to your table and take them away, ask if everything is still okay since the last inquiry. The place is a beehive of workers. A waiter will stop by incessantly to ask ¨is everything tasting good this morning?', if he can bring you this or that or anything at all, and all the time effusive and smiling and refilling your coffee cup and asking stupid questions. Not only is the service fast it's right in your fucking face all the time, and gets worse toward the very end when the bill arrives and a tip for the stage play is expected.

It's just different. And service in Germany is not like in Spain or Italy or France or the UK or the Czech Republic.

Jesus fuck you're a human windsock R279.

Being a stunner for 3 decades, I experienced lovely service everywhere. Now I'm invisible and it's a shock.

Sweetpea, just swirl the caftan and the wait staff will come running