The Boys in the Band

Thanks, OP!

turning.

one of the alltime gr8 movies......i remember takin some str8 buddys to see it in college, they dug it.

Oh, Mary, don’t ask.

It’s a hoot. I think/ hope you’ll enjoy it, 0P.

Is it the original? Love when Cliff Gorman, in character, gives some random lady at the traffic stop the stink eye at the beginning while the opening credits roll.

Well, its on TCM, so I’ll assume it’s the original 70s movie.

I'm excited.

I just saw the Netflix remake the other day. How does the original compare?

The Netflix version is like the original, but all flattened out.

"That’s the pot calling the kettle beige"

That's no random lady, r6, that's Elaine!

The Netflix version isn’t bad. It just isn’t anything remarkable, the way the original was in 1969.

Connie Casserole!

Who do you have to fuck to get a drink around here?

[quote] The Netflix version is like the original, but all flattened out.

It’s been in the steam room

Sunt. Thats French, with the cedilla.

What's worse than...?

The original is super depressing and full of self internalized homophobia. Time to let it go Elder gays.

[quote]The original is super depressing and full of self internalized homophobia. Time to let it go Elder gays.

We, the Elder gays, know what it was like to be gay in 1970, r19. What's your frame of reference?

Yes, r20 I knew you were going to say that. But it's time to stop living in the past and celebrating destructive relationships as if they were special. It sets a bad example for younger gays. It's like German men watching Nazi propaganda films over and over and saying you just don't understand how we felt back then.

Pray tell, r21, how Boys in the Band is like a Nazi propaganda film.

I agree with you R21. I saw it as a young gayling in the late 1970s and came away feeling so sad and depressed that this was what my life as a gay man was going to be like. I know it's a record of it's time but it's time to let to slip away.

the movie is vastly superior to the netflix one, tho it too is fab in its own way. but the self loathing in the movie is done with such sass and verve its FABULOUS.

I saw it in the mid-70s as a gayling, r23 and realized it was a play turned into a movie.

This is a ridiculous conversation. No one's planning on moving back to 1969 - they just want to watch the movie.

[quote] I saw it as a young gayling in the late 1970s and came away feeling so sad and depressed that this was what my life as a gay man was going to be like.

I did too - but now we're older and more sophisticated, we can appreciate that it's much so more than that. It's also very funny.

OP is just a Negative Nellie, r26.

'Oh, why don't you go poke your face with your tweezers.'

I'm making this recipe to accompany it.

I don't like food that looks regurgitated, r29...

Too bad Robert Osborne isn't going to do the intro and outro.

That would have been interesting.

the Intro and the Outro

It's also on YouTube if anyone misses it.

The original is fascinating as both a film and period piece. It’s also superbly acted. The resent remake is not bad, but kind of a creaky historical take- except the butch math teacher is a dreamboat (who seems poorly matched to the whiny boyfriend.)

There was no reason for a remake.

I never got how the original was that bad and negative towards gays and what it was like, back then, to be gay.

They had each other. A circle of friends where they could be their true selves. Sure, they sniped at each other and sometimes fought, but they could still rely on each other.

And the whole self loathing issue is still a problem for many people, LGBT or straight.

The instrumental version of 'The Look of Love' used in 'The Boys in the Band'"

[quote]There was no reason for a remake.

Quality of the remake aside, r35, filmed versions of plays often get remade.

Exactly, r36.

I hated the original and I won’t see the remake because I don’t care for the actors. That is all.

[quote]R36: I never got how the original was that bad and negative towards gays and what it was like, back then, to be gay.

Count yourself fortunate then, R36.

It was a hard thing to be a gayling in the 1970s, trying to figure out this tribe of people with whom one evidently had sexual preference in common, and then to come across this film. Terrifying.

[quote] It was a hard thing to be a gayling in the 1970s, trying to figure out this tribe of people with whom one evidently had sexual preference in common, and then to come across this film. Terrifying.

Why was it terrifying?

Is it fag night on TCM

We always watch it at our house.

Wasn't Luckinbill the only straight actor? I think the rest died of The AIDS.

[quote]R42: Why was it terrifying?

To someone who had never seen "gay people" before, to think this was what they were like, that this was evidently what I was supposed to be (I knew that I was gay from age six onward; it was my secret and mine alone) or would become, was terrifying. The depiction was terrifying.

[quote]R45: Wasn't Luckinbill the only straight actor? I think the rest died of The AIDS.

Incredibly, Cliff Gorman (Emory) was straight; he and his wife nursed the ailing Robert La Tourneaux when he got sick until he succumbed. Also Leonard Frey (Harold) was straight.

Leonard Frey was straight? I never knew that.

Cliff Gorman was brilliant in that role. I love a person who, when they’re pushed to the wall, shows everyone else the personal courage they’ve always had and were were never credited for.

[quote] To someone who had never seen "gay people" before, to think this was what they were like, that this was evidently what I was supposed to be (I knew that I was gay from age six onward; it was my secret and mine alone) or would become, was terrifying. The depiction was terrifying.

Oh, you thought society would show you a better alternative to being straight? Now, that is terrifyingly naive. You honestly thought that homophobic society would give you access to overly positive role models who don't seem to struggle at all, so you could drop all the homophobic baggage you accumulated and live a happy life as an out and proud gay man?

^^ Hard to believe, huh?

UPDATE: Hmm. That's something I'd picked up over a decade ago, researching the cast. Looking once again, sources say he was gay.

Learn something new every day.

[quote]R49: Oh, you thought society would show you a better alternative to being straight? Now, that is terrifyingly naive. You honestly thought that homophobic society would give you access to overly positive role models who don't seem to struggle at all, so you could drop all the homophobic baggage you accumulated and live a happy life as an out and proud gay man?

I'm not sure where all that is coming from, being as how I was describing the impressions of a child seeing the film (it aired on television when I was eleven, and I secretly watched it, and was appalled). You're talking about points of view and references to which I did not have access in the 1970s. I'm not sure what point you think you're making.

Later impressions revealed to me that the play was written by a self-hating homosexual man, Mart Crowley; all of the characters were facets of himself, and not a single one of them was positive, or 'out and proud.'

Cliff Corman and Lawrence Luckinbill were both straight.Not sure if Peter White was straight, but he is still alive at 85.

Black actor Reuben Greene disappeared.

I never heard Leonard Frey was straight. I saw him leaving with a male companion after a Broadway show, and Frey was wearing a black evening cape. How many straight guys wear that? Frey also died of AIDS in 1988.

Kenneth Nelson, Frederick Combs, Keith Prentice, and Robert La Tourneaux were all gay, and all 4 died of AIDS.

[quote] I'm not sure where all that is coming from, being as how I was describing the impressions of a child seeing the film (it aired on television when I was eleven, and I secretly watched it, and was appalled). You're talking about points of view and references to which I did not have access in the 1970s. I'm not sure what point you think you're making.

Gay = Bad. Confirmation bias. And apparently you still seem to hold on to that for some reason in adulthood. Which seems to prevent you to see The Boys in the Band in a different light now that you should know better, but instead prefer to hold on to your child impression of the movie. Your idea of nostalgia?

Why did you hate the original, R40?

[quote]Leonard Frey was straight? I never knew that.

Because he wasn't.

[quote]R36 / R36 / R42 / R49 / R53: They had each other. A circle of friends where they could be their true selves. Sure, they sniped at each other and sometimes fought, but they could still rely on each other.

No, they didn't really have each other, save in a sort of 'with friends like these, you don't need enemies.' They were tied to each other by a shared history and shared secrets.

[quote]R53: Gay = Bad. Confirmation bias. And apparently you still seem to hold on to that for some reason in adulthood. Which seems to prevent you to see The Boys in the Band in a different light now that you should know better, but instead prefer to hold on to your child impression of the movie. Your idea of nostalgia?

I see being gay in a different light, but there isn't any redemption for 'The Boys in the Band' (1970). I've rewatched it perhaps a dozen times over the decades, but its self-loathing is baked into it at every level. I find it difficult to believe you've even seen it yourself, or more likely, you're just trolling. I would ask you how old you are, but I don't believe you would answer truthfully. Your replies are not made in good faith.

Why should I see the film in a different light? It's poisonous.

[quote]R55: Because he wasn't.

See R50.

[quote] Why should I see the film in a different light? It's poisonous.

Thank you for proving my point. You hold on to your bias that makes you see Boys in the Band in the exact same light as you did as child.

You refuse to acknowledge the playful banter, them dancing together (that is interrupted by Alan), the thoughtful gift exchange between Michael and Harold, you know, the nice things.

They hate themselves and they hate each other, R57.

And I disagree with that statement r58, because of the reasons mentioned in r57. Or do you claim I make those moments in the movie up?

[quote]R57: exact same light as you did as child.

Where Moose and Squirrel?

Sorry, meant I disagree that they hate each other. You are right that some of them suffered from self loathing and had anger management issues and got easily triggered because of that.

[quote] It's also very funny.

I don't remember laughing at 'Boys in the Band' when I saw it years ago but I remember thinking 'Staircase' was witty.

But now they both seem sad and pathetic.

[quote]R61: Sorry, meant I disagree that they hate each other. You are right that some of them suffered from self loathing and had anger management issues and got easily triggered because of that.

By your own admission at R36, you "never got how the original was that bad and negative towards gays and what it was like, back then, to be gay." Apparently you simply cannot, no matter how it's explained, although you come across like alt-right trolls who ask in what way Donald Trump is racist, have it exhaustively explained to them, and then say, "I still don't see it."

It's not a matter of my "bias"; it's the message of the film. Nor is it a reflection of my childhood impressions of it; as a child, I found it terrifying for entirely different reasons, and knew nothing about homophobia, internalized or otherwise.

'Staircase', mentioned by R62, is another one. Horrible film.

r58 - For one thing, PoisonedDragon, of course Frey was gay and he died of AIDS.

My '70s experience: I stole a paperback of the play from Woolco and hid in my dresser drawer when I was 16. I finally saw the movie a couple years later. I don't know where you grew up, but when I was 16, I was aware of gay porn mags and the Advocate. I knew being gay wasn't going to be easy, but at least I knew there were others out there like me. I recognized that the drama of the piece was heightened because it was a play/movie and I thought their lives looked pretty cool. That was my takeaway anyway.

[quote]It was a hard thing to be a gayling in the 1970s

[quote]I'm not sure where all that is coming from, being as how I was describing the impressions of a child seeing the film (it aired on television when I was eleven, and I secretly watched it, and was appalled). You're talking about points of view and references to which I did not have access in the 1970s. I'm not sure what point you think you're making.

It was *never* on TV in the '70s.

Another one to avoid is Some Of My Best Friends Are... Really awful and very low budget. Rue McClanahan plays a fag hag, Gary Sandy plays a self-hating gigolo, and Candy Darling tries to act.

I couldn't make it past 20 minutes of Staircase, though at least Richard Burton looked like he was trying to give an actual performance. Like Boys, it was based on a play written by a gay man.

However bad the 70s were in terms of being gay, the 60s were worse, and these plays and films reflect that.

Cliff Gorman is wonderful but felt doing the movie hurt his career. Such a talent and memorable in every movie and play he was in. I last saw him when he replaced Ron Silver in Social Security directed by Mike Nichols and he was a friggin force of nature wringing every laugh out of a so so play. Gone too soon.

[quote]Cliff Gorman is wonderful but felt doing the movie hurt his career.

Had it been 20 years ago, he would have got a nomination. He wouldn't get the role now because he wasn't gay.

[quote] Leonard Frey was straight? I never knew that.

Did you know he played Motel in the movie version of Fiddler?

He's on this Dick Cavett Show...beginning at 39:15.

The original cowboy rent boy was played by Robert La Tourneaux. He had a ghastly death. Charlie Carver (the gay twin) reprised the role in the remake.

[quote]R64: For one thing, PoisonedDragon, of course Frey was gay and he died of AIDS.

Again, as I said at the end of R56, see R50.

[quote]It was *never* on TV in the '70s.

That is the way I remember it, although I cannot define which year in the 1970s. It was a late night airing (which was the only way I could sneak in a viewing, after my parents went to bed), likely on PBS, around the time they were showing content like 'Steambath' and 'The Naked Civil Servant.' They were quite edgy in the 70s, with lots of gay content. Although 'Steambath' was first released in 1973, I seem to recall watching that one in 1978 or '79, in a repeat airing.

It's possible that my memory has conflated TBitB with something else, and I first saw it in the early 80s. But that's not the way I remember it.

What time is it on?

R70 what you do mean by Robert La Tourneaux's "ghastly death?"

[quote]R70: He had a ghastly death.

As I remarked at R46, Cliff Gorman and his wife nursed the ailing Robert La Tourneaux when he got sick until he succumbed. (Regarding my mistake about Leonard Frey at R46, see R50.)

[quote]Charlie Carver (the gay twin) reprised the role in the remake.

Here's the original Cowboy, Robert La Tourneaux, nude. ▼

Steambath had adult language and brief nudity, r71, but not lots of gay content...did it have any?

[quote]R73: what you do mean by Robert La Tourneaux's "ghastly death?"

He developed full-blown AIDS and died in 1986.

From Wikipedia:

[quote]In the early 1980s, La Tourneaux developed AIDS, and received news coverage when he sought legal channels to prevent being evicted from his apartment when his landlord objected to the presence of a live-in caregiver. La Tourneaux won the court case, but died in Metropolitan Hospital on June 3, 1986. Boys co-star Cliff Gorman and his wife cared for him during his illness until his death. He was buried at Rosedale and Rosehill Cemetery in Linden, New Jersey.

Also, of Datalounge interest:

[quote]Unable to secure work as an actor La Tourneaux began nude modeling in gay men's magazines and in 1978 performed nude in a one-man cabaret act at the Ramrod, a New York City theater showing gay pornography films. He eventually became a prostitute... He also gave an interview to a gay magazine naming his famous married closeted bisexual lovers, alleging one of them to have been Academy Award-winning actor Christopher Walken. He also accused Walken of having an affair with another married actor, Robert Wagner, on the night of actress Natalie Wood's (Wagner's wife) unexplained death. In 1983, La Tourneaux was arrested for assault after trying to extract money from a client and was incarcerated at the Rikers Island prison. While in prison, La Torneaux attempted suicide.

I've never seen the film until now. I feel like I'm watching a movie where all the characters are Dataloungers!

Peter White straight? Don't make me laugh!

[quote]R75: Steambath had adult language and brief nudity, [R71], but not lots of gay content...did it have any?

Two of the characters are depicted as gay, and there are frank dialogue references to gay sex. It was quite controversial back in the day, not least because the overall subject was the afterlife, and 'God' (depicted as a Puerto Rican attendant) didn't seem to care that they were gay. People flipped their shit over it.

I remember seeing this on the ‘Channel 5 Movie Club’ at 11pm on a Saturday night in the 80s. If memory serves it was unedited. So was Valley of the Dolls.

Larry and Peter.....oh, and Lucie.

Bejeweled knee pads!

Frederick Combs was gorgeous.

I loved it!

It's the same old tired queens who've been around since the day one.

[quote]Yes, [R20] I knew you were going to say that. But it's time to stop living in the past and celebrating destructive relationships as if they were special.

The movie doesn't "celebrate destructive relationships," asshole.

No one's mentioned the documentary?

Will never get the hate for this film. A couple of characters are self hating but not all of them, and tbe point of portraying the self hatred is to denounce it. Is it dated? Possibly, in some ways. But that's not always a bad thing.

Regardless all of that anyway, the dialogue is incredible, funny, acidic, occasionally loving and tender. And the acting. The outstanding performances (that aren't there at all in the otherwise just ok remake) especially by Kenneth Nelson (Michael) and Leonard Frey (Harold) are unmissable and some of the most underrated for that period in film. RIP to all the beautiful talented and brave gay actors (5 from a cast of 8) from the film who met their untimely deaths at the hands of that evil disease in the 80's.

[quote] People flipped their shit over it.

Normal people flopped it into their toilet.

[quote]Will never get the hate for this film. A couple of characters are self hating but not all of them, and tbe point of portraying the self hatred is to denounce it.

I would say not so much to denounce it as to recognize it was a fact of life among SOME gay men at the time, and to recognize self-hatred was understandable given that gay people were so openly reviled by the majority of the straight population of the world at the time.

[quote] " saw it as a young gayling in the late 1970s and came away feeling so sad and depressed that this was what my life as a gay man was going to be like." I did too - but now we're older and more sophisticated, we can appreciate that it's much so more than that. It's also very funny.

Well Graps, you missed the guys point entirely. It's not about YOU. His point was a young gayling just coming out watching this movie might get the wrong idea about what being gay is like. About how depressing you life will be if you come out.

R46 This is the speech that terrified me as a gayling watching the film:

[quote] You're a sad and pathetic man. You're a homosexual and you don't want to be, but there's nothing you can do to change it. Not all the prayers to your god, not all the analysis you can buy in all the years you've go left to live. You may one day be able to know a heterosexual life if you want it desperately enough. If you pursue it with the fervor with which you annihilate. But you'll always be homosexual as well. Always Michael. Always. Until the day you die.

Luckily(?), I have NYC heritage, so I understood the type of humor in the banter between the men. If it hadn't been for that, I wouldn't have made it through the film.

And, by the way, I'd forgotten just how much humor there is in the dialog until I found the linked web page.

[quote]But it's time to stop living in the past and celebrating destructive relationships as if they were special. It sets a bad example for younger gays. It's like German men watching Nazi propaganda films over and over and saying you just don't understand how we felt back then.

This is weapons-grade homophobia at r21, I can't believe anyone actually humored this piece of shit by responding to him like he was a human being.

[quote]I never got how the original was that bad and negative towards gays and what it was like, back then, to be gay.

There are a lot of people who think that, because all the characters are gay, the movie is about all gays and therefore it's bad, because all gays aren't nasty bitchy self-loathing assholes.

It's difficult to get people, even today when we're supposedly more enlightened, to admit that it's about one specific group of gays who are not representative of all gays, but representative of a type, in a world where there's an enormous variation in types of people and groups. No one can possibly believe that TBITB is about Midwestern gays in the late 1960s, or California gays, or European gays, but yet they still act like the movie is trashing all gays.

It's also really fucking irritating to see a board full of people who were so upset they were shitting into their own hands and flinging it at their laptops when they thought GWTW was being "deleted forever by HBO" say that we should, in fact, destroy TBITB and not show it and not ever let it be seen and if you do watch it, you're a literal Nazi wishing for the good old days of throwing Jews into the oven.

Oh please, you can watch 2 hours of depressing self-loathing storyline of gay men hating themselves and each other but cant handle a sentence or two of criticism of the same film?

[quote]Leonard Frey was straight? I never knew that.

You still don't know that, baby, because Leonard Frey was not straight.

The man died of AIDS just before his 50th birthday. What a talent, and such a terrible waste, not just of Frey but all the cast members who died too soon. It was a terrible time.

I watched it today and it was like spending 2 hours on Datalounge, but in video format. Very similar bitchy cuntiness. It was like DL characters came alive on screen.

I just don't get the accusation that it's self hating. The main character is. Maybe Harold to some extent. But the others aren't. As for the gayling watching the film now, he has other options to chose from among quite a few others with a newer, more modern perspectives about what its like to be gay NOW. He can and should watch this to see how it was SOMETIMES like to be gay THEN. And that's the films worth, nothing more, nothing less, especially if we tale in account it was written by a gay man about his gay friends.

[quote] watched it today and it was like spending 2 hours on Datalounge, but in video format. Very similar bitchy cuntiness. It was like DL characters came alive on screen.

And where did you fit into that equation?

The reason for the Netflix remake was to preserve the cast of the 2018 Tony-winning revival/Broadway premiere, with a cast made up entirely of "out" gay actors. Ryan Murphy produced both the revival and the subsequent film. Murphy's production celebrated the play's 50th anniversary and was seen as something of a tribute to the actors who created the roles in '67 and in the first film who were almost all gay but could not then be openly "out." The revival was directed by Joe Mantello, who recently starred in Murphy's "AHS" opposite two of his "Boys" actors, Charlie Carver and Zachary Quinto.

[quote] By your own admission at [R36], you "never got how the original was that bad and negative towards gays and what it was like, back then, to be gay."

I guess you deliberately left out this part of my comment:

[quote] And the whole self loathing issue is still a problem for many people, LGBT or straight.

For me, the movie is as relevant today as it was back then in the sense that even with a so called support group like a circle of friends, Gays still struggle with issues like self loathing.

You see it as toxic, I see it as honest that even with friends and a support system you still have your struggles and your friends are still there for you when you show your ugly side, for example: The others know that Michael is a mean drunk, but they still stay friends with him, because they take the good with the bad - and that's what friendship is really about. It's easy to throw words like toxic and toxic relationship around and then insist that people have to be perfect and not struggle with anything and not express their anger and frustration, and be an exceptional representation of their kind in public and in the media just so others who struggle have a reason to no longer struggling (like, WTF?).

I only watched half so far.

I like it, but it has a very play-like, self conscious, recited quality. And every actor seems to be stealing the scene, especially Emory. He has many lines/scenes.

The humor is good on paper but doesn’t quite zing on screen. It’s very Golden Girls type one liners.

Very jumpy from scene to scene.

The self-loathing and stereotypes don’t bother me too much. The drugs, foul language and sleaze is more of an issue for me.

I’m trying to remember what it reminds me of? The Women? The Group?The Dirty Dozen? Poseidon Adventure? Twelve Angry Men?

Any movie with a group of actors has that forced quality. It never seems natural, maybe because everyone is taking turns with lines?

[quote] Any movie with a group of actors has that forced quality. It never seems natural, maybe because everyone is taking turns with lines?

It was a play first. The movie adaption still kept the performance structure of the play.

Cracked crab?

Butch Assurance

I watched it last night and it's a very 70s movie. It was interesting to see the original cast... Was Alan really in the closet?

R107 Mart Crowley has said he wants it to be ambiguous whether Alan was really a closeted gay or if he was going through something else.

I actually find Allan being secretly gay as too predictable. Maybe the truth was somewhere in the middle....maybe he had felt attraction to their mutual friend/roomate but nothing happened. Or it did but it wasn't quite as profound as Michael thought. Maybe he felt stiffled by his wife and family and wanted to escape what we know was a a stuffy conservative existence.

The important thing is that no matter what was going on with Allan, Michael scared him right back into his previous life which I do think he was trying to escape, which is sort of like the tragedy of the play/movie.

Keith Prentice was so handsome with a hunky hunky body. The play is a classic and I’m glad it was preserved on film with the original cast.

Is there a bootleg or archival recording of the original play in 1969?

There’s an audio recording, r110

R111 - Thank you. Do you recommend I watch the orig movie or listen to this first?

Also adding my 2 cents to the discussion. As a relatively younger gay man here, I appreciate what older gays went through in times of old. It does give perspective on how far we've gone.

I don't think the stuff R92 quoted is that depressing. Anyway I'm just basing it all on the Netflix movie.

Watch the original movie, r112. It’s a very good representation of the play.

I love the apartment and the beginning where they show the men in their everyday lives. Where is the apartment supposed to be? Where is it in real life?

When did all the coded language start? Did gay men ever not call each other bitch and queen, etc? When was that? The 1940s?

R114 it was supposed to be in the UES back when spendthrift occasionally employed writers like Michael could afford to live back in the 60s

R111 its also on youtube

The balcony was Tammy Grimes’ apartment on the UES. The interior was a sound stage.

Except for maybe the guy who played the cowboy hooker, none of these guys were attractive or had hot bodies, so it didn't hold my interest. A bunch of 4's and 5's at best.

the cowboy was cute but Frederick Combs was gorgeous

Combs gorgeous? Run, don't walk, to your nearest optometrist. He looked like the love child of Ruth Buzzi and Franklin Pangborn.

Turrrrrning.

Meh I though Cowboy, Bernard and Larry were hot af, and Michael and Donald and Emory were cute.

The guy in the parking garage who delivered the VW was cute.

What we are, r19, are men who lived through it, lived through AIDS, lived through Reagan, lived through police sniggering when we reported bashings. And if we celebrate in any way a film that shows us what we went through and how we dealt with it, however nasty, it's no one's goddam business but our own. And how are you this Sunday morning?

R123 wasn't he cruising Donald? Seemed awfully young to be doing it, he looked like he was still in high school.

[quote]m trying to remember what it reminds me of? The Women? The Group?The Dirty Dozen? Poseidon Adventure? Twelve Angry Men?

Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf, r103.

Leonard Frey identified as bi, but mostly preferred women.

I coveted Michael’s toreador-esque portrait of himself.

Fiddler was released the year after TBITB and Leonard nabbed an Oscar nomination. Such a wonderful actor.

R127 seriously? Where did you get that? He was pretty effete in interviews I've seen him in. I would have never thought he'd have ever been attracted to a woman in his life

R128 I love that "Run run...spend spend" monologue while he's staring at his own painting...compare that to how Parson just offhandedly delivered that in the remake....absolutely butchered it.

Imagine if they had cast name actors in those roles. Robert Conrad IS Larry. Donald Sutherland IS Harold. Rock Hudson IS Hank.

r127 is trolling, r130.

ive just started watching the "Making of..." documentary - ive seen it numerous times and its that good that im drawn in yet again. so yes, recommended. a lot of it is whats being discussed here but so much more. its very freidkin that a movie has a big a story behind the scenes as on. he seems to create real life dramas around his dramas. he absolutely loves the film - which is great. it would be sort of sour if he'd disowned it.

If I want to remember what it felt like to be a closeted 18 year old in a southwestern town in 1969 .......

all I have to do is start this movie up.....I don't think I've ever finished watching the whole thing since.

All I remember is thinking I didn't want to be those people on the screen.

This "Tired Old Queen" gives his review of the movie, which might help those who aren't familiar with it.

What's the matter with your wife? She got lockjaw?

You’re a real person…

[quote]R96: You still don't know that, baby, because Leonard Frey was not straight. The man died of AIDS just before his 50th birthday. What a talent, and such a terrible waste, not just of Frey but all the cast members who died too soon. It was a terrible time.

Oh, FFS, R96. Read the thread.

Start with R50.

Also worth pointing out , this was the first major studio picture to use "cunt".

R138 I think you might have gotten confused with Cliff Gorman who played Emory, the most flamboyant character, who was straight irl.

Worth pointing out, when Robert La Tourneaux became ill with Aids, he and his wife took him and cared for him till he died. Poor Robert was the first one to guy, he struggled getting work after the play and ended up becoming what he played, a hustler, to support his drug habit.

[quote]R140: I think you might have gotten confused with Cliff Gorman who played Emory, the most flamboyant character, who was straight irl.

No babe, I didn't. See R46, followed by R50.

The last time I watched TBitB was sometime between 2002 and 2005, and discussions on the IMDb around that time prompted me to research the film and the actors online. At that point, there were still online sources that claimed Leonard Frey was straight; I've no idea why, but that sort of thing is all over the internet about various gays. Perhaps someone had vandalized Frey's Wiki page. Since Wikipedia is user-edited, that can happen. It was just bad information that I'd picked up back then. And since I'd never again looked into it - until yesterday - the misinformation just stayed with me, unchanged, until a quick check with the current Wiki page corrected me.

[quote]Worth pointing out, when Robert La Tourneaux became ill with Aids, he and his wife took him and cared for him till he died. Poor Robert was the first one to guy, he struggled getting work after the play and ended up becoming what he played, a hustler, to support his drug habit.

Again, see R46, as well as R74 and R76.

[quote]Also worth pointing out , this was the first major studio picture to use "cunt".

But not the first to employ one.

Çunt.

Eldergay here. Well this thread has triggered shit in all kinds of ways, hasn’t it!

I’m somewhere in the middle of those who have taken extreme positions both pro and con, for the original and the remake. I too, saw the original on TV when I was a young gayling trying to negotiate my way in the world. I believe it was in the early 80’s. At the time I found it deeply-maddeningly-depressing. If the writer and director had intended to show any diversity of opinion on the gay lifestyle, they had failed miserably. Michael is our protagonist and the film ends with him saying: “Show me a happy homosexual and I’ll show you a gay corpse.” The sheer dogma of that statement negated any tentative attempts to show a little happiness the other characters may have experienced as out gay men. And it sure didn’t read as a stinging indictment of a homophobic society to me! More like “this is just the way it is, you fags, so wallow in it!” Let’s just say that this movie did NOT help with my struggles to come out at that time. Maybe if I’d seen it at a less impressionable time in my life, I’d have seen more nuance, I don’t know.

Yet I couldn’t quite hate the movie. The performances were, to a man, excellent. The banter witty etc. And back then, any gay depictions at all we’re as rare as well, bejewelled knee pads, so, sadly we had to take what we could get. Better than being ignored? That’s certainly open to debate.

All these decades later, I watched the remake with much more detachment. Which I found oddly…freeing. I wonder if that detachment was also a deliberate style choice on how the new one was filmed and acted as well? I found myself far more aware of the set and props and costumes in this one. Like a film truly meant to be viewed as a period piece. I found that a lot of the “tragedy” of the original had been levelled out. And I kinda liked that! It helped that this time, the gay actors playing gay characters, are much more high profile. So Matt Bomer with his high-profile relationship and easy sexuality and Jim Parsons with all his awards, give the lie to the “message” of the piece. That’s progress and I’ll take it!

The most depressing thing about the film is the beautiful men in the film who died from AIDS and are no longer here to defend their great acting.

Agree ^ I also love the time-capsule/time-travel quality of this film.

[quote] You’re a real person…

Thank you and fuck you

[quote]I just don't get the accusation that it's self hating. The main character is. Maybe Harold to some extent. But the others aren't.

Also, maybe Alan could be said to be self-loathing in that he's utterly unable to face his homosexuality -- assuming that's the truth about him, which is never outright stated but STRONGLY implied. But I agree that most of the characters in the movie should not be considered "self loathing." I think there is a big difference between hating oneself and having trouble navigating one's way through a world in which one is not accepted.

[quote]I like it, but it has a very play-like, self conscious, recited quality. And every actor seems to be stealing the scene, especially Emory.

I know what you mean, but I have been at social gatherings of gay men where it seemed like people were constantly "on" and always trying to top each other with witty, sarcastic, often bitchy bon mots.

[quote]The important thing is that no matter what was going on with Allan, Michael scared him right back into his previous life which I do think he was trying to escape, which is sort of like the tragedy of the play/movie.

Excellent point.

[quote]resent remake

Oh, dear.

[quote]always trying to top each other with witty, sarcastic, often bitchy bon mots.

Thank God some of don't have to "try."

I like the stage-play tone of the film. It adds to the electricity and energy of the viewing experience. From an acting technique standpoint, it's also quite interesting to watch these primarily theater actors adjust to a medium that was new for them.

So, I finished the Making Of...documentary and it's worthy of the film and play. VERY good indeed.

Find out for yourself where to watch it.

I didn't realise Mart Crowley died....in 2020.

R153 And Larry Kramer. And Terence McNally.

I’m an eldergay, and this film always reminds me of every gay Christmas house party that I’ve ever been to.

[quote]I’m an eldergay, and this film always reminds me of every gay Christmas house party that I’ve ever been to.

Just the one, dear?

The Diana Scream gathering was the1990s version of BITB.

I wonder how much bitchy repartee there was at Roger Pegram and Frank Bushong's Thanksgiving gatherings?

I hate it when the operator calls me "ma'am".

Got a heavy date In Lafayette Square?

Makes you want to run out and get a slide rule.

Give me librium or give me meth.

Delbert Bots, D.D.S.

I see you were able to cope with some ice.

Larry Luckinbill turns 88 today!

I still like the car valet with Donald's VW......and Donald doesn't even give him a second look.

Fun fact: Soap star Robin Strasser's RL hub Larry Luckinbill played Hank in the original production/film, while her on screen hub Tuc Watkins played Hank in the Ryan Murphy version. Larry is obviously straight. I'm not sure how Tuc identifies.

TW came out a few years ago as gay....late in his life like Hank.

R165 Is he still with Andy?

R164

Please, spare us the sight of your sagging tits.

[quote]I still like the car valet with Donald's VW......and Donald doesn't even give him a second look.

Maybe you should watch it again. As I recall, there's at least a moment where Donald heavily cruises that guy.

The bad rap on The Boys in the Band started around the time of Vito Russo's book Celluloid Closet. Writing from a strong gay liberation p.o.v., Vito disparaged this and other early 70s films for their consistently downbeat portrayal of gays. He was not wrong. However...

I was a fairly-closeted-but-anxious-for experience college student in NYC in 1970, and spent most of my free time going to Broadway shows. One of my friends got that TBITB recording, a 2-disc album, and we listened to it over and over again. Since we were a bit too terrified to go see the actual play, it was the next best thing. We loved the dialogue and memorized whole chunks of it. When the film came out, I was more than ready to see it, and I noticed that certain campy elements were left out of the screenplay - references to Maria Montez, Betty Grable in The Dolly Sisters, etc. In subsequent revivals, including the recent TV version, the original text was streamlined even further, so as not to date the play too much (and let's face it, there are fewer people alive [outside of DL] who know who these women are).

For me , seeing this movie in a theater in 1970 was a revelation. The central character lived in in fabulous apartment with a roof terrace in the East 60s. He had financial problems but still somehow managed to stay afloat by his own wits and in spite of his very real problems. He was part of a close-knit community of mostly good-looking gay men living in NYC, some of whom had enjoyed sexual dalliances with each other, and even one couple in a fraught but ultimately committed relationship.

The characters' misery and self loathing did not make much of an impression on me - what I saw was a lifestyle that I would be happy to live, among men that I would be happy to fuck. Not too many years later, I had managed to create something that resembled many of the best parts of that kind of life. It was a kind of Belle Epoque before the calamities of AIDS and Reagan.

R170 I’m sincerely glad that you managed to etch out a happy life for yourself. I still don’t know however, how a gay man could see that movie or play and manage to ignore the misery that is CENTRAL to the messaging of the piece. It’s baked in. Even Midnight Cowboy wasn’t as distraught. And THAT movie could drive the cheeriest optimist into a funk.

We can agree that Russo was essentially right. The late sixties and the seventies were a relentlessly dreary time for gay cinema. You didn’t have to be an activist to see that! And none more so than TBITB.

I started to get my hopes up in the late 70’s around the time of Craig Russell’s Outrageous! and a few others here and there. And then came…Cruising. 😒And yes, Reagan and AIDS as you pointed out. What a dark period it was!

R171 Oh fuck off, the film is fun, you miserable wretch.

R171, some of what you say is valid but I feel you dont see the good/lightness in the film. When the characters are happy and loving and caring and funny. If all I saw is misery, I'd get it, but I don't.

Not the one you're replying to, btw.

[quote]We can agree that Russo was essentially right. The late sixties and the seventies were a relentlessly dreary time for gay cinema. You didn’t have to be an activist to see that! And none more so than TBITB.

The way I look at it, of course, Mart Crowley COULD have written a more upbeat play (and movie) with a happier ending, even given the realities of gay life in the late 1960s before Stonewall. But he told the story HE wanted to tell, and bearing in mind what those realities were, I don't think it's appropriate for Vito Russo or anyone else to harshly criticize him or his work in that way.

"The original is super depressing and full of self internalized homophobia. Time to let it go Elder gays."

Who IS she?

Who WAS she?

Who does she hope to be?

Freddy Combs was incredibly hot!

r164

that is quite interesting to me.. it makes me chuckle. IIRC Tuc may have come out publicly recently but he was out since he was much younger

Mart was going through a real funk when he wrote the play. He was broke and there's a whole story around it - there are interviews with him and he goes into it in great detail. So no wonder this plays on a low vibration.

Once I went to Los Angeles and was given his number by a mutual friend, but I never bothered looking him up - now he's dead and I'll never get the chance again.

He made lots of money from that ghastly Hart To Hart thing - which ran for a long time...again it was Natalie Wood who swung him that gig along with being a champion on BITB. She was an incredible friend to him. Obviously a very nice woman.

R174 That’s fine. We can agree to disagree. I can certainly concede that Boys was very much a product of it’s time, and honest in it’s own way. That self-hatred certainly wasn’t created in a vacuum. The film is by no means without it’s merits. The acting is very, very good.

How do we feel about the 2020 version?

Comparison

ZQ is good, though not Leonard Frey levels of good. It's Jim Parsons who to me leaves much to be desired, especially in the breakdown scene that comes right after.

[quote]The way I look at it, of course, Mart Crowley COULD have written a more upbeat play (and movie) with a happier ending, even given the realities of gay life in the late 1960s before Stonewall. But he told the story HE wanted to tell, and bearing in mind what those realities were, I don't think it's appropriate for Vito Russo or anyone else to harshly criticize him or his work in that way.

Exactly, r174. It's a movie based on a play. It's a *drama* not a documentary. There are going to be heightened emotions. Did Mike Nichols think he needed to make Virginia Woolf upbeat?

[quote]R172: —a real life michael

Don't you have a Catholic Mass somewhere that you need to attend?

I saw a rather, I guess, macho documentary about Friedkin's movies and they excluded BITB - it bugged me.

[quote] it was Natalie Wood who swung him that gig along with being a champion on BITB. She was an incredible friend to him. Obviously a very nice woman.

And a very poor swimmer.

Did anyone else here see the off-broadway revival in 1996 with David Drake (remember him?) as Michael, David Greenspan as Harold, and James Lecesne as Emory?

It was just OK. Drake tried hard but was underwhelming (no better or worse than Parsons), Lecesne was very good, and Greenspan was in his own show.

Oh, and Christopher Seiber was Donald.

Greenspan is always in his own show even when he isn't in a one-man show.

The one on the floor is cashmere.

I love the intro of the movie where we get to see bits and pieces of 1970 NYC...does anyone know what store Michael is i when he s buying the sweater?

R191 Bergdorf-Goodman, IIRC.

R190 The one on the floor in the john is Vicuna.

You're right......R193.

But at least mine is PAID for.

The lady is paying. Why not take the vicuna?

Making The Boys.

I liked "The Making of the boys" but it really was mostly a biography on Crowley than exclusively about TBITB, which quite honestly, is what most interested me. I really would have loved to know .ore about the actors, their stories, etc.

You've had worse things in your mouth.

Bernard disappeared decades ago. Peter White, (hot in Dallas) never confirmed he sucked cock. I think the rest have 'aged out of life'.

And poor Laurence is stuck with that lady still singing the title song of....

R199 Polly Paranoia.

Is The Boys In The Band the most quotable movie ever? If not, it's up there with Sunset Boulevard, All About Eve and The Wizard of Oz.

R202 Meh, I'm turning on and you're just turning.

To be fair, r202, it's hard to work "With all my heart I still love the man I killed" into a conversation.

R202 R204 For a certain age of gay people, Boys quotes, delivered at the perfect time, always rouse the troops.

Were any of the characters' last names ever noted, besides Allen's?

Emory Board.

Does anyone have a script or copy of The Men From The Boys?

Btw, I'm still having trouble finding an HD copy of the original movie. Started to watch one of those old rips on YT and I couldn't stand the low quality.

R208 Download sites have good quality.

One other flaw is that every joke is a gay joke. I guess they thought they had to hit the audience over the head with the fact that this is a bunch of gay men?

When you’re with your friends is everything you say a reference to your sexuality? They overdid it with that, and it gives it an artificial quality. It’s like a parody of how gay men talk/behave.

R210 Maria Montez is side eyeing you right now..

What do you mean, gay jokes? There are many pop culture jokes , like a fucking lot. But what are gay jokes, and references to sexuality?

R208 here you go (it's legit, don't worry.

R208, try Rarbg. Use a vpn.

R14 is nothing but a sad and pathetic man. You're a homosexual and you don't want to be, but there's nothing you can do to change it. Not all the prayers to your god, not all the analysis you can buy in all the years you've go left to live. You may one day be able to know a heterosexual life if you want it desperately enough. If you pursue it with the fervor with which you annihilate. But you'll always be homosexual as well. Always,. Until the day you die.

My mother had friends like that in the 70s. Turtlenecks, rings, cologne, chain-smoking, bitchy/funny... always in love or just out of love.

I always found it funny how Harold is set up in the play as the "toxic bitch" and he certainly has a bit of that demeanor at first, but really, he's probably the wisest and smartest and tolerant of the bunch. He takes alot of shit from Michael in stride until the end where he's had enough of his shit and delivers the death blow.

[Quote] I liked "The Making of the boys" but it really was mostly a biography on Crowley than exclusively about TBITB, which quite honestly, is what most interested me. I really would have loved to know .ore about the actors, their stories, etc.

Robert LaTourneaux was interviewed in the 1970s on the Emerald City TV show. It's on YouTube.

R217 I've seen that. Arthur Bell was a pretty obnoxious interviewer. And Robert sounded nothing like his character..he sounded smart, cultured and informed...too bad he got himself mixed up in drugs. He really just became a piece of meat.

Also, true to the play, La Tourneaux and Frey became a long term couple on set, according to Frey's nephew. Likely wasn't an exclusive arrangement though.

Oh my god, I JUST came across this thread now. Excellent! I am the poster who started the below just a day prior to this one, and it never really took off, which I thought was odd as I imagined people had a lot to say about this play (admittedly, I watched the 2020 version). Turns out they did, but it was on this thread. Over 200 posts now to go through and read. This is really excellent, I wanted to have a discussion with people about it.

GUESS WHOSE ASS I CAME IN? NO NOT MATT BOMER.....THO IDE LOVE TO, BE AN HONOR.

[quote] GUESS WHOSE ASS I CAME IN?

Reba McEntire

R152 Where did you find the movie Making The Boys, (assuming it is the one you're referring to). All I can find is a trailer and that it doesn't seem available in the US.

R219 you’re like the caterer in the Golden Girls episode where Sophia is getting married and the gay ass wedding planner has a confrontation with Blanche after she makes a remark about him acting too swishy.

[quote]"toxic bitch"

He wasn't toxic, r216, he was caustic.

Glad to have gotten a mini review of Murphys remake, I thought of Parsons when watching most recently, just in the introductory scene, and thought he could've been an interesting Michael, but Quinto as Harold? pfft. I'm not trying to see Virginia Woolf, All About Eve or Valley of the Dolls remade and this is another film added to that list.

The banter and wit were similar in depiction to the insular theatre community in AAE, and the toxicity in codependent relationships alcohol spotlights, which all reminded me of this.

I DVRd this screening and had my mother watch it (now three times- she was born in 59, never saw it and LOVED it.)

At around the 26 minute mark, Larry brings down a speaker and hands it to Bernard, "Yeah, baby. Let's hear that sound." Anybody know what song was playing? I don't think it's listed in the soundtrack.

R223, I have no idea what you mean there, but it's all good.

How was this any more poisonous than your typical Neil Simon play?

Part 3

▲ In R229's clip, the song starts around 6:38. What is it?

It's called Take The Fifth Amendment and the singer is Joe Tex.

Ah... 'Taking the 5th Amendment,' by Joe Tex.

I'm optimizing the subtitle file, and needed the title/artist.

Thank you, R231 - we posted at the same time.

Who played the delivery boy from the bakery?

Another thing to consider - Mart the guy who wrote this also had many very good and close women friends (gurfriends) - they didn't all hang out alone together like this, I don't think they even mention a woman - this is a very monotone view of gay life then.

To the poster who asked - I have the DVD of "The Making of...." maybe thats the only way to see it. But it's not a disappointment like so many documentaries these days with just endless boring people talking to the camera.

R235 Eh, this is a play about gay guys...exclusively. Women involved would have taken away from it. Especially in a groundbreaking play like this that was the 1st real semi mainstream gay play.

R234, wasn't that Don Stroud? And I think the model Larry is photographing is Maud Adams.

Elaine from Elaine's is the woman at the curb beside Emry as he holds the casserole.

R237, no, I don't think that's him. His cranium is wider than Don Stroud's.

If you VPN, this copy of Making The Boys will play.

R240 Thanks 4 this. Will check it out.

I love the brief footage of Fire Island in 1967. Who is doze gurls?

It’s quite good as a period piece and well acted. Hampered a bit by being very confined to its stage presentation. Like a lot of good theatre it knocks you over the head- which plays a bit heavy on film.

I’ll never forget watching it as a kid in the Dreamland theatre on Nantucket. There was a gaggle of old queens (my age or younger now) wheezing and cackling all through it- think scotch and cigarettes. There was an under the radar group on the island in perfect houses some of them running the better antique shops etc.

BITB used to be free to stream forever on You Tube. Then the new play came along and it was yanked. MONEYMONEYMONEY

[quote] I don't think they even mention a woman

Several women from the men’s lives are mentioned, especially Alan’s wife. Plus a few gay icons like Judy and Vera Ralston.

They are not discussed much, but they are mentioned.

What am I? Deflated meatballs and spaghetti?

On TCM again tonight.

Thanks to OP and everyone else who keeps mentioning all the old great films I've been missing you've roped me in for $5 extra per month. Telus bleeds me dry already, you jerks! 😆🤨

The Boys in the Band starts at 5PM Pacific.

"The original is super depressing and full of self internalized homophobia. Time to let it go Elder gays."

This person has never seen at least one of the original or the remake. This comment is nonsensical to anyone who has seen both.